Why the Warner Bros. Bidding War Is Catastrophic. Plus, ‘Pluribus’ Episode 7 and the ‘Hijack,’ ‘Paradise,’ and ‘Supergirl’ Trailers.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Watch (The Ringer)

Episode: Why the Warner Bros. Bidding War Is Catastrophic. Plus, ‘Pluribus’ Episode 7 and the ‘Hijack,’ ‘Paradise,’ and ‘Supergirl’ Trailers.
Date: Dec 12, 2025
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald

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Episode Overview

Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald break down the seismic Warner Bros.-Netflix-Paramount bidding war and its ramifications for Hollywood, TV, and the future of streaming. They also provide reactions to major TV trailers (Hijack S2, Paradise S2, Supergirl) and delve deep into the latest episode of Pluribus. A bonus lightning round touches on Landman and the new queer hockey drama Heated Rival—all with their trademark blend of pop culture insight and humor.

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Key Discussion Points

1. TV Trailer Reactions

• Hijack Season 2 ([03:01])

  • Idris Elba returns in a “taking of Pelham 1,2,3” scenario, with hosts gushing about the fun, tension, and action vibes.
    • “It's basically the taking of Berlin, Pelham 1,2,3. Idris back on a mode of transportation in a shitty situation.” – Chris Ryan ([03:01])
    • Notable excitement about Toby Jones’ appearance: "That's when the beat drops." – Andy ([03:22])
  • Both joke about not remembering much about the show's plot and question whether “jumping into season 2” without knowledge would work. Their consensus: you'll be fine.

• Paradise Season 2 ([09:22])

  • Hosts recap their on-again, off-again relationship with the show, praising its insane pacing in S1 and hoping S2 leans into chaos and high-stakes, “pop song” TV.
    • “The last show that made me feel that way was the first season of Empire, where it's just like eight seasons' worth of plot before the third act started.” – Andy ([10:23])
  • Chris senses S2 is more serious, Andy wants it to stay unhinged, American Primeval style.

• Supergirl ([12:12])

  • Lukewarm reaction—neither are thrilled. Chris objects to the “lone wolf and cub” trope emerging again.
    • “You guys got to stop making lone wolf and cub. You gotta leave it alone.” – Chris ([12:38])
  • They observe the James Gunn/Guardians aesthetic (misfit families, aliens, pop songs), noting curiosity about whether that sensibility can “support an entire cinematic universe.”
    • "It felt very Guardians-y..." – Andy ([13:41])

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2. Warner Bros. Bidding War

The Facts ([14:35])

• Netflix made a $72B bid to acquire most of Warner Bros Discovery (film/tv studio, HBO Max, HBO, TCM).
• Paramount responded with a “hostile takeover” bid valued at $30/share, aiming for control by buying up shares, including CNN and the linear cable channels.
• Netflix is financing its offer by taking on $59B in new debt ([17:50]).
• There's deep skepticism from politicians across the spectrum (Mike Lee and Elizabeth Warren), overt signs that regulatory and legal hurdles are significant ([17:15]).

Host Perspectives

The “Catastrophic” Context ([19:45], [20:01])

• The acquisition is a “fucking nightmare”—nobody but studio heads/owners wants this.
• The only winners are “David Zaslav and Ted Sarandos and… John Malone and anyone likely to make another fortune” ([20:01], Andy).
• Layoffs and creative contraction are inevitable, with most creative workers, consumers, and LA as a whole set to lose ([21:16]).

Negative & Semi-Positive Spins ([19:36])

• Andy’s take: Netflix winning may be “the least catastrophic option”—but that’s only because the alternatives are even worse (Ellison + foreign wealth funds = “living nightmare” and “oligarch state media”).
• Netflix’s management may have some appreciation for cultural institutions and creative stewardship, but that doesn’t inspire real hope, just dread at how much worse things could get.

Industry & Legal Impact

• The ripple effect on how we watch TV/movies: fewer buyers, more consolidation, and potentially the end of creative independence.
• Andy offers a “buying time” optimism: “Stalling to avoid catastrophe is kind of interesting.” ([24:44])
• Chris & Andy discuss how Netflix's acquisition could freeze HBO/Warner in limbo, damaging competition even if the deal doesn’t close—a “win” for Netflix by default ([25:46]).
• The central worry is that for most of America, streaming TV is already “just a tile.” The creative legacy of HBO and Warner Bros is already being diluted ([26:35]).

Creative and Labor Implications

• The merger would further offshore production, shrink LA’s industry base, and erode generations of craft knowledge ([29:10]).
  • “We're losing decades of institutional knowledge about how to make things… It's way more of a numbers game, how do we flip this and flip that…” – Chris ([29:35])
• L.A. could become the “new Detroit,” with the city “off the mat” after years of strikes, Covid, and economic blows ([30:45]).

Future of Streaming/TV Watching ([33:00])

• Netflix’s model (binge-watching, short movie windows) will likely replace HBO’s “weekly event” format.
  • “You guys want it to be one way, but it's another way. 98% of this country does not want to wait a week to watch the next episode…” – Chris ([33:17])
• The fear isn’t just less creative experimentation: it's less variety, more risk aversion, and “the majority of television is owned by three companies.” ([38:17])
• “Everything gets slightly sane-washed. Where there is no winner here other than those men that you mentioned and maybe their bottom lines. Consumer loses, creators lose, employees lose.” – Andy ([21:16])

Notable Quotes

• On consolidation:
  • “These motherfuckers keep slicing it as thin as Paul Sorvino did garlic in Goodfellas and telling us it's a full meal. This sucks.” – Andy ([21:16])
• On the end of the HBO era:
  • “It is noteworthy when the premier shit-poster in the Senate, Mike Lee, and Elizabeth Warren…are on the same page about this.” – Andy ([20:55])
• On the business model’s impact:
  • “Netflix's goal…wasn't to become the new HBO. It was to become TV: with late night shows, with sports, with a deep bench, all kinds of things.” – Andy ([37:17])

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3. Pluribus Episode 7: “The Gap” ([45:52] onward)

Episode Breakdown

• Written by Jen Carroll (Vince Gilligan’s former assistant), directed by Adam Bernstein (Breaking Bad, Fargo).

• Nearly silent, beautifully cinematic two-hander split between:

  1. Carol in New Mexico, enjoying a brief spell of autonomy and luxury, then spiraling into loneliness.
  2. Minuzos, enduring a grueling trek through the Darien Gap en route from Paraguay toward the U.S.

• “This episode was mind-blowing. It’s largely silent…” – Chris ([48:02])

• Carol’s arc: from “Home Alone” freedom to longing and despair, symbolized by golf mishaps, lonely luxury, and giant painted pleas for company.

• Minuzos’s journey is depicted with near-ritualistic attention to process, danger, and moral code (he always leaves money for gas he siphons).

Themes & Reception

• The episode embodies “slow TV,” giving space for quotidian detail and meditative pacing.

  • “If you talk about the type of TV industry that we would like, there are aspects of what Vince Gilligan does that are just how it’s supposed to work.” – Andy ([47:20])

• The dramatic juxtaposition of Carol’s American comfort and Minuzos’s peril underscores both cultural and personal existential gaps.

  • “The juxtaposition…with Carol’s very American consumerist narcissism and her needs are pretty fascinating.” – Chris ([60:40])

• The journey’s ambiguity (e.g., is Minuzos waving for help or to be left alone?) deepens the emotional stakes.

  • “On a very basic level, just being like, now I care about this guy, and now I am rooting for this guy, and I need this guy to get to Carol…” – Chris ([61:37])

Notable Moments & Quotes

• On creative process:
  • ”The best parts of writers’ rooms always…are the first two to three weeks…What Pluribus does is find the space or take up the space for all those little details.” – Andy ([57:16])
• On the director:
  • ”Adam Bernstein…is married to Jessica Hecht.” – Chris ([46:38])
• On character definition without dialog:
  • “The way they're defining these characters is amazing. And with no dialogue.” – Chris ([62:45])

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4. Quick Hits & Additional Segments

Landman & Heated Rival ([67:35] and [71:16])

• Landman: Sam Elliott eating a corn dog, increased scene construction, and workplace disasters—Andy finds “more pleasure watching than expecting to talk about.”
• Heated Rival: New “hot” queer hockey show; Chris finds it boundary-pushing in its sexual content, Andy not so into hockey.

Playlists, Music, and In-Jokes ([74:07])

• Andy plugs his 50 Songs of the Year playlist and discusses the “art” of curation versus Chris’s casual approach.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On the warner merger:
  • “Nobody wants this...Consumer loses, creators lose, the employees of these companies who will face layoffs…Everybody loses except for the guys at the top. That is the economy we've inherited.” – Andy ([21:16])
• On Netflix’s TV philosophy:
  • “It’s actually 98% of this country does not want to wait a week to watch the next episode of whatever their television show is. And you guys want it to be one way, but it’s another way.” – Chris ([33:20])
• On the creative impact of mergers:
  • “It was, there was a sense that a lot of people could make money in this town…You could make a living. Everything in the country is now just so six people can double their wealth.” – Andy ([31:36])
• On the artistry of Pluribus:
  • “What Pluribus does is find the space or take up the space for all those little details so that Carol's golf breakdown, her fireworks journey, and her Gatorade thirst...[are in the show].” – Andy ([57:16])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:01] – Hijack Season 2 trailer
• [09:22] – Paradise Season 2 trailer
• [12:12] – Supergirl trailer
• [14:35] – Warner Bros. merge overview (Netflix vs Paramount)
• [19:36] – Catastrophic context and host reactions
• [21:16] – Critique of consolidation & creative loss
• [29:10] – Impact on LA/beyond; industry labor worries
• [33:00] – Netflix’s binge model vs. traditional TV
• [38:17] – Fears of media monopoly
• [45:52] – Pluribus S1E7 deep dive
• [67:35] – Landman discussion
• [71:16] – Heated Rival and queer representation in TV

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Tone & Style

• Informal, witty, sometimes caustic banter between deeply knowledgeable hosts.
• Sarcastic, but punctuated by earnest concern for both the culture of TV/film and the actual livelihoods affected by industry changes.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is an accessible, engaging primer on both the rapidly shifting tectonics of the Hollywood business and the creative artistry that stands to be lost. Andy and Chris offer both the expert context (history, regulatory hurdles, precedent) and personal lamentation (nostalgia for LA, love for the HBO “era,” concern for workers). Their analysis of Pluribus is a masterclass in how to appreciate “slow TV,” with a focus on character, process, and transformation over time. If you care about the future of what you watch—and how you watch it—you’ll find both smart analysis and plenty to laugh at (and worry over).

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Pain support staff to clear the room.

[C]

Stand up and walk now.

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, it's 06, Wayne Rooney and Sandy Greenwald.

[C]

See, I don't gatekeep Jim Legacy album cuts.

[A]

I didn't gatekeep it. I just didn't know about it. Man, it's good to see you, brother.

[C]

Man.

[A]

Is this our first time back since you got back? Yeah.

[C]

Right. Well, I've been back about 48 hours. I've been awake for about 40 of them.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

So very cool. This should be interesting.

[A]

Greenwall. Today on the show, my long promised conversation with you about the Warner Brothers Netflix, Paramount.

[C]

I thought there was another conversation coming. I was so excited.

[A]

No, because I like when I was talking with Tim, we were like, I was like, I'm going to talk with Andy about wb, Paramount, Netflix.

[C]

You know why you had to wait?

[A]

Because you're the wizard of Wall Street.

[C]

And thank you. And hitmaker as fingers in too many pies.

[A]

Yeah, it's true.

[C]

He is across all of it.

[A]

Not like us.

[C]

No, he is. He. He's complicit. I think he knows it.

[A]

Andy, we are doing a mailbag to wrap out to wrap up the year at some point in the next like 10 days, 12 days. We're starting to get emails. I really appreciate everybody writing and feel free to keep doing it because we're always looking the [e-mail].

[C]

You think there's some good, good cues in there already?

[A]

Yeah, there is, actually.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

I actually really was. I thought there were some really thoughtful queries. You can follow us on Instagram at thewatchpod underscore. You can watch us on YouTube on the Ringer Dash TV channel.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you can watch us on Spotify, where I hope you listen to us today on the pod.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wb, Paramount, Netflix stuff.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Pluribus episode seven.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And we're gonna talk a little bit right now before we get into the dirty business of Hollywood. We're going to talk about the Hijack season two trailer.

[C]

Great.

[A]

Just watched it.

[C]

We watch it together. It was nice.

[A]

It's basically the taking of Berlin, Pelham 1, 2, 3, Idris back on a mode of transportation in a shitty situation.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't know if you've ever seen the video of Zane Lowe watching Fred again. Make a beat. But this was me watching the. The Hijack trailer. I was like.

[C]

You were. It's just like when the hi hat came in. When Toby Jones shows up, you were like, toby Jones. That's when the beat drops.

[A]

Come on, dude, I'll watch. I mean, there's only so many modes of transportation now.

[C]

It's interesting that, like history does.

[A]

Hijacking awaymo is going to be complicated.

[C]

You know, I think it's like we are old enough now to see just the cycles of things. Right. Like fascism was out. Now it's back in. Also speed. And the Speed two problem, which was where do we go from a bus.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

In that case, they made a catastrophic error in choosing a cruise ship.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Because that is not something that possesses speed.

[A]

No. The train was right there for them in speed.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. They went from speed to slow.

[A]

Maybe they felt like we did the train at the end of speed. So we couldn't.

[C]

They did do that.

[A]

They couldn't put a hat on a hat there.

[C]

You know, That's a really, really good point.

[A]

But the problem with Speed two was there was no Keanu, man.

[C]

It was Jason Patrick. Yeah. Also, I feel like the last 20 years of Tom Cruise's career has been like a rejoinder to like, you think there are no other fast modes of transportation.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

So all this is to say, super into it. Yeah. I would also like to say up front, this has nothing to do with the sponginess and the time dislocation inside of my amygdala right now, but I have no memory of the television show Hijack Whatsoever.

[A]

I don't think we need to know a ton about it.

[C]

No. And that's why I loved it. Like, even when it was happening, I don't think I really understood the larger plot.

[A]

And I think people should give themselves more grace and also believe in their own intellect. If you want to jump in on season two of a show, I'm fairly certain, like, you can figure it out. I feel this way after watching Stranger Things Season 5, where it was like, I have no real recollection of what happened in season four or the mechanics of it.

[C]

And you feel okay?

[A]

I was fine.

[C]

You know, by the way, just to, like, to keep you in the loop, because I don't think I've told you this. Stranger Things, boy, it's making a late run in my household now. I was away.

[A]

I feel like I intercepted this.

[C]

Do you want to talk to her about this? Oh, you did?

[A]

Because I was like, are you excited to be watching Stranger Things with your kids over Thanksgiving? And you were like, nope, that's not happening. They're not interested.

[C]

To be clear, I have been living abroad for much of this autumn. So when you say with my kids.

[A]

To be fair, I do not have children.

[C]

I'm not even sure if legally I am still their guardian. However, yes, my older daughter has become completely obsessed in the way that. I know you've been watching it with your dear friends.

[A]

I did watch it, yes.

[C]

So, no, but, like, that's part of the experience. And that the way, like, when we were growing up, this is quite a detour. But, like, when we were growing up, a man's word meant something. No. When we were growing up, I think the type of interest that we had in the entertainment we engaged with was not the norm in that we probably, like, looked at the credits or we read Entertainment Weekly or Movieline magazine. Right.

[A]

Yes. We were the coolest.

[C]

We were so cool. If only we had found each other. Across the city. My daughter has watched now two seasons of Stranger Things, which basically makes us the same.

[A]

Well, it's also. I would say those are the best two.

[C]

Yes. She knows. She knows more about the relationship between, like, Charlie Heaton and Natalia Dyer than she does about Hawkins.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, she knows everything about this show off screen.

[A]

Can I ask you a question?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How does she feel about Joe Keery?

[C]

Wow.

[A]

He's quite popular.

[C]

He is very beloved in my household right now. And you should have seen me. In fact, I could recreate it for you when I tried to leverage just a small piece of coolness by telling her I Recently saw him star in the Pavement documentary as a lightly fictionalized version of himself playing Stephen Malchus. I was like, it was meta, but it was effective. He's a good sport. And then that failed so spectacularly, and I don't learn my lesson. Like, 20 minutes later, I'm like, furiously texting her Joe Keery's Triple J, like a version cover of a Heim song. Being like, he's got good pipes, too.

[A]

But why don't you just engage with Stranger Things?

[C]

I gotta get a flight.

[A]

No, but I. This is like the shortcut here is just to watch Stranger Things. You don't have to.

[C]

No, no, I'm ready. Okay. I'm ready.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Because that said, she still wants me. She really wants me to be the Wednesday guy, not the band. You like them more than I do the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But yes. Doesn't matter. I'm. That's the beauty of this, of the catalog titles. Right. It's there for me.

[A]

When I was hanging out with my wife's best friend's family, and I believe 10 year old was like, the only question she had was, do you think that Steve Harrington is going to be okay? And I was just like, well, there's a lot of mixed messaging on that, you know?

[C]

Right.

[A]

But I was like, I'm not going to sugarcoat this for you because the worst that you can do is lie. The worst thing is he's going to be fine. And then I betrayed her. And she was like, because he's going to be my husband. Was just like, okay.

[C]

Wow. People like Will. Will's like a. People think he's hot now. I'm sorry, People in my household here.

[A]

A little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And he kind of. He kind of. He's. He's jacked now.

[C]

Is he doing the same regime you're doing?

[A]

Well, he might have some powers.

[C]

Yeah. You know what? I allowed myself to be spoiled.

[A]

Did you really?

[C]

I did. Can we just put a button on the Hijack thing?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

We said this at the time, but, like, the beauty of that show, it's in the title and it's Idris Elba make 10 seasons, I think. Well, I don't fucking care.

[A]

He's also like, this is a person with a very comfortable relationship with what makes them popular. And he's still making Luther, like, you know, they're like, they're making another Luther season. And, like, he doesn't seem to.

[C]

That.

[A]

He's not like, oh, hijack is something I did in 2022, you know?

[C]

No, he. I. I Spoke to someone who'd worked with him, actually, when I was over there in his home country. And he is, as advertised. Like, everything you think about him is. Is him in a good way.

[A]

Yes. I think he just DJs in Ibiza and it's. And hijacks stuff. He's.

[C]

He enjoys his life, I think. And there's other trailers.

[A]

You want to hit paradise, which looks good as shit.

[C]

So season two of paradise, which was a show.

[A]

Let's just quickly recap that. Not the plot of paradise, but like, our relationship to. Which was. This was a cool pilot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This show is insane. And then the seventh episode, I believe.

[C]

Was better than House of Dynamite.

[A]

Yeah. And actually, I didn't. Is it?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then I would just say that I think that they got that message, you know, I think that they got the message that there is a vibe to the seventh episode that maybe they'll carry forward. Now, I don't think that that means necessarily that every episode of paradise is going to be a banger, but there was something about the second season trailer that I was just like, you take yourself a little seriously now, and I like it.

[C]

Okay. So I had a slightly different reaction, not necessarily negative. The thing about paradise that was compelling, other than the high points that you mentioned, was that it was absolutely batshit crazy.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And the breaks had been cut in a way that I really kind of admired, because if you're. The last show that made me feel that way was like the first season of Empire, where it's just like eight seasons worth of plot before the third act started. And I admire that. Like, if you're going to make a pop song, make a pop song. Like, go all the way in and make it a hit. It's a little. Here's what I'd like for paradise, because it just doesn't care about anything other than its own internal logic. I would love it if this new season had no relationship, really, with the first season. And what I mean is. What I mean is, it is a Russian nesting doll of a series where one of the major characters on the show. And I don't think this is a spoiler. I won't say which one, but one of the major characters and major actors on the show is deceased, but has just an incredible archive. He's like the Roberto Bolano of characters. Right. It's just like, Jesus Christ. It's just like, how many more novels did this guy write before he died? It's just Wild Wildcat.

[A]

Yeah. The papers.

[C]

So that. So what I would like though in the second season, because you have a Dan Fogelman, the creator, and you have an appetite for chaos and you have Sterling K. Brown as the star who can do anything. Let this season be like American Primeval and don't do fucking load bearing flashbacks to why we Built the Silo. Make this season the adventure in the wild season. Then the third season could be a completely different show because you've got the pieces in place and commit to it.

[A]

Well, it was never just about the bunker. That's what we learn about in this trailer.

[C]

That's so cool.

[A]

What's her codename? I can't remember.

[C]

Jazzbo? No, Coltrane.

[A]

Coltrane, that's right.

[C]

Which I believe is also. Gene Hackman calls Danny Glover in Royal Tenenbaums.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

That's probably what it's a reference to.

[A]

All right, let's stop dancing around. Let's talk a little bit about the Supergirl trailer, if you want to.

[C]

Do you have a feeling about it?

[A]

No.

[C]

Great.

[A]

It doesn't take place on Earth.

[C]

Can you. You offended?

[A]

Well, isn't that the whole point? This guy and his relationship or their relationship to Earth?

[C]

No, they're different people. I understand that, but it's not just like the female friendly version of it, you know? Well, yeah, you're trying to. You're trying like, this is Superman for the ladies. Is that your argument?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. My point is that, like, I don't really, first of all, the. The emergence of a child that she needs to take care of immediately. And like, you guys got to stop making lone wolf and cub. You gotta. You gotta leave it alone.

[C]

I was with you until I spent the entire autumn away. Now I'm like, give me a child to take care of. Please.

[A]

Let me send this child clips of Alex Rosberry documentaries.

[C]

Don't you see? It's ironic, right?

[A]

I thought it looked cool. Yeah.

[C]

Billy Alcock, big star. She's going to be great. I know you're excited for Jason Momoa to play Lobo.

[A]

I did think that looked. He's in the trailer, right?

[C]

Briefly, yeah. I think I'm just curious if the James Gunn sensibility can support an entire.

[A]

Cinematic universe or translate to I Tonya filmmaker Craig Gillespie's vision of it.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't want to belittle anyone's involvement. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes, but this does. Aesthetically, this feels so close to what we already saw into what James Gunn generally does that it does feel like he is.

[A]

It felt Actually, a little Guardians Y.

[C]

It felt very Guardians Y. Like, misfit family of aliens and guns and swords and pop songs and stuff. I just. I just.

[A]

I. I'm going to miss just, like, a bunch of people on Earth being, like, this incredibly tall, handsome journalist.

[C]

That's the part you respond to. This guy could have chosen any field. He could have been a model, but instead, he's the fourth estate.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Shout out Front Central graduate Anna Nogueira wrote that movie. I don't know her. I'm always trying to look for Quaker school alums just glowing up. That's cool. I want their light within to shine brightly.

[A]

That's one of the tenets of the entire. The entire ideology of Quakerism. Right.

[C]

Get the bag.

[A]

Yeah, Get. Get that Supergirl money. Greenwald, Are we going to talk about this? Netflix, wb, Paramount? You were like, you were practically, like, boarding a plane, ready to start ranting about this. And here's what I want to know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The first night this comes out Thursday night and into Friday morning, it feels like Luca Treaty, where you're just like, I can't believe it. The entire landscape is different. Like shock waves through the industry kind of thing, through the town. And then you get a couple of days into it and there's a lot of chatter about, like, how long this is going to take and will this even go through and blah, blah, blah. Earlier this week, Paramount launched a what was described as a hostile takeover bit, but has now been explained to me by reading Matt Levine in Bloomberg as not exactly hostile, because it's not. It's like they're trying to essentially accumulate enough shares to block the Netflix deal.

[C]

Well, they're trying, I believe, again, we are not.

[A]

Yeah. This is not what we're going to be talking about.

[C]

But my understanding is that they're. They. They're going directly to the shareholders saying, we're going to pay more. It's just more money. And why is that?

[A]

And you should sell us your shares. And then Once we have 51% of shares, we control the company.

[C]

Right, Right.

[A]

So let me just go through some broad outlines for people who have.

[C]

Maybe I'm going to stretch.

[A]

Who've got lives and haven't been paying attention. This is a Netflix made, I believe, a $72 billion offer to buy most of Warner Brothers Discovery, including the film and TV studio.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Which would be Warner's ip, which is the kind of most important thing here, probably. And it's streaming service HBO Max and its flagship premium channel, hbo. And in addition, Joseph Vidalian just reported it. That also includes tcm.

[C]

I figured. Yeah.

[A]

Well I do think that that is a nice kind of in. In notes about like the DGA is going to have to meet with Netflix to talk about the ramifications of this deal.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Netflix present as a steward for Hollywood history is not the dumbest thing in the world.

[C]

They're going to get president of Hollywood Sean Fantasy on board.

[A]

No.

[C]

But they sweet talking him.

[A]

The whole thing with TCM is when Zazlav is going to cancel it. PTA and Spielberg and Scorsese were like we will keep the lights on here. You have to meet us halfway. So I just do think that the TCM bit is a nice piece of relationship building with filmmakers maybe who haven't traditionally worked with Netflix. Netflix's bid was accepted despite this deep competition from David Ellison and his Paramount Skydance company and they will now launch a hostile takeover bid for all of wbd including the linear cable channels.

[C]

I think CNN is a part of what they want.

[A]

And valuing Warner Brothers at $30 a share even though it was trading at less than $8 earlier this year.

[C]

Now again, I'm, I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a wizard of Wall street, but that seems like a lot.

[A]

This may force Netflix to up its offer. I don't know how that stuff works. The reaction from Washington has been mixed with Trump suggesting that get involved.

[C]

Gosh.

[A]

What and says but saying that he likes Netflix and he recently went on a tirade about Paramount because they aired a Marjorie Taylor Greene interview on 60 Minutes the like. And he was like this is the same old yada yada yada.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Senators as varied as Republican Mike Lee, who I know is your boy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And Democrat Elizabeth Warren have voiced concerns about the deal.

[C]

So obviously you can get those two on the same page.

[A]

The resistance, it's a big. It's a big ten. And there's like I mentioned, there is a very informative Bloomberg piece about how Netflix is looking to finance this deal with $59 billion in new debt.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

And I note that not because I understand what that means, but in my experience and in the our years of covering this stuff to some extent when you are borrowing money.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You need to make a return on your money to pay your note, you.

[C]

Pay your interest and to prove growth. It puts a different sort of pressure on you. Which is what Zaslav is being said.

[A]

I think there is a direct relationship between that and the way that the IP Warner Brothers is about to hand over to Netflix might get handled get worked. Yeah.

[C]

When you said, in my experience with debt, I was trying to imagine a time at like Great Lakes bar where you were like, I understand I don't have money, but you have Rheingold beer. May I please have three more tonight in an exchange?

[A]

You know what, you can catch the right bartender on the right night. They might go with that. I just meant. Yeah, I mentioned the debt because the amount of debt that this costs, I think will affect how they treat things like Game of Thrones.

[C]

Well, I mean that, I mean, Zaslav infamously made the Warner Brothers purchase with debt, which has dominated his mixed stewardship of the company. Because everything has been about trying to prove to a skeptical Wall street that this can work despite the crushing debt burden. And the. Prior to the, you know, the planned sale, the split of the companies was an attempt to like, like, you know, you love hot air ballooning, like, to like to cut the weight, the ballast, so they could actually soar and maybe one day end up in Oz, which I believe will now be owned by Netflix.

[A]

So that's where I wanted to kind of start with this. I want to get your broad reactions to the, to the announcement anyway, but I wanted to talk mostly about how this perspective deal, either one of them really might change the way we watch what we watch.

[C]

We'll get there for sure. I have a. I can give you a semi positive spin on the Netflix thing and I can give you a negative spin on it. I think it's important before any spinning happens, to state the obvious, which is.

[A]

You'Re a big old lib, which is. And you.

[C]

Which is. Despite past missteps, Graham Platner deserves a spot on this debate.

[A]

You don't think Jon Snow has any place in the Taylor Sheridan universe?

[C]

Oh, that's also true. I think it's important to say before getting into any of it that this entire situation is a fucking nightmare. And nobody wants this. Nobody in the world wants this to happen other than David Zaslav and Ted Sarandos and anyone else who is. And John Malone and likely to make another fortune on top of their existing fortune because of it. And that is the life that we. Not only the life that we are forced to be living in at the moment, but also the economy we are forced to participate in. And now directly connected to even just the casual entertainment that we would like to distract ourselves with. It is noteworthy when the premier shit poster in the Senate, Mike Lee and Elizabeth Warren, who still has my text Texas open from my deep, deep belief, perhaps a misguided Belief in her presidential aspirations in 2020, that's the last iced.

[A]

Coffee you're gonna be able for because you gave all your money to Jasmine Crockett. We can do it. We can flip Texas.

[C]

I financed it on debt, though.

[A]

Yeah, good.

[C]

So it should be fine. I'm a Talarico guy, actually. I think you gotta run the candidate for the place. You know what I mean?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Anyway, let's come back to that.

[A]

That's gonna be a moneymaker for us to break out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's disgusting. And it's just like it is the same situation that we find ourselves in where it's like everything gets slightly sane washed. Where there is no winner here other than those men that you mentioned and maybe their bottom lines. Consumer loses, creators lose. The employees of these companies who will face layoffs and continually shrinking margins and horizons. And like everybody loses except for the guys at the top. Like, that is the economy we've inherited. And these motherfuckers keep slicing it as thin as Paul Sorvino did garlic in Goodfellas and telling us it's a full meal. This sucks. That said, okay. When the news broke on Thursday, I was weirdly calm because my perspective on it, and I don't think this is. And I'll give you the counter as well, but in some ways this felt like the least catastrophic option. Now, as I've just, as I've just said, it's catastrophic. The Ellison, Paramount, Kushner Saudi wealth fund cohort is a living nightmare. Both because of how I feel about how they conduct themselves in the world, but also what it means for how business is done in this country and who gets to control what and how much closer we are towards completely oligarch run state media. That can't happen. I also think that. And again, I don't know the guy. But one thing about Ted Sarandos that I do believe is obviously what's good for the company comes first. But in his other statements and his other behaviors, his very almost sweet obsession with Saturday Night Live and going to all the anniversary things and just thinking it's a pillar and institution of. And the way that they have, in small ways and certainly in self serving ways, bankrolled artists, even though the art ends up as just another tile, makes me think that this guy does have some, some cultural understanding of an appreciation for Warner Brothers as a studio. It's a really weird world when David Zaslav, who's the titan of debt and Dr. Pimple Popper, looks like, you know, fucking Jack Warner in terms of like keeping Casey in charge of HBO and Green Lighting, you know, allowing or whatever. And the movies that they've made, that's how far we've done fallen, Right. That this is where we're at. But there is a version of it where Netflix bends things to fit their. Their mandate, which really will be problematic going forward because they're like, well, we're not going to touch the movies. The movies can continue to exist now. Netflix needs movies. It's not just that they have a couple and they do. Well, their internal stuff tells them that consumers and subscribers of their product watch tons of fucking new movies on the service, and they need a pipeline for that. Sure, but we're not talking about the same things that they talk about on letterboxd. When they talk about movies and when they say they're committed to theatrical, it means a much shorter window, most likely, if anything at all. So that will matter. I think the other reason why the Netflix one is potentially the best case scenario is all of the legal roadblocks that this is. A year, two years, who knows how much longer, if it could happen at all. It's sort of. It feels a little beta to say it, but, like, playing for time to avoid catastrophe is kind of interesting to me because in.

[A]

In your mind, the Netflix deal, whether it goes through or not, means it doesn't go to Ellison until possibly Trump's out of office.

[C]

I also think that.

[A]

Is that what you meant by that, though?

[C]

Well, I think that stalling one thing.

[A]

That we have, so you're on the record as not being for a third.

[C]

Trump term, then let's see what happens. Let's just look at the facts on the ground and respond accordingly. I think. Yeah, I think delay is probably a good thing. I do think. I don't know if this matters in the case of this, but as we head into a midterm election year and people will be campaigning, I do not think campaigning for more monopolies and more corporate. More corporate hegemony is really going to be a winning argument.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's going to be happening at the same time that the case will be being made to regulators why this should happen. And I think that there's a good chance that something could happen to derail it. There's also the very dark alternate version of this that I've heard a few commentators who know more than we do saying, which is that maybe Netflix is okay either way.

[A]

Right. Like that. That if this doesn't happen, at least they like. At least they basically screwed up three.

[C]

Other Hollywood Studios, Frozen, three other studios. Well, and while they all continue to eat their dust, basically that by basically halting hbo, Max's whatever, internal development, internal split, whatever they were planning on doing, Warner Brothers Discovery's split of the company, that's a win regardless for them, even if they end up having to pay out the 5 billion or whatever. That was the penalty, I think within it. So I don't know. I just believe that there is a version of this where we, because we're old, we feel hurt and sad at the thought of hbo, this great institution that has made so many of the greatest shows of all time, becoming just another tile. But that ship sailed. It is a tile.

[A]

Yeah. FX is a tile within Disney and Hulu.

[C]

And that's where I was going for it. You could say what you want about the Disney Fox merger and there's a lot of to be said, although I know that the fact that Channing Tatum is now playing Gambit has just allayed all of your concerns because that's what you were hoping for all along. Fx. Iger was good to his word about that. Like he looked at fx, he's like, these guys know what they're doing. I will essentially leave them alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And FX's corporate culture and creative point of view and aesthetics exist even though it's now a tile on two different streaming services. On Hulu and on Disney and on Disney. So in terms of short term, like HBO is going to be fine for the next one, two, three years. Beyond that, we don't know the, the negative version, like against. Against doesn't really. I mean I feel like it's almost redundant to get into it. But the Netflix has made great things and great and a lot of great creative people work there. But it's inarguable that it has been a overall malign force in the industry. And the thought of there being three places, basically four places that are even buying shows, like we all suffer from that.

[A]

Do you think that that feels like it returns us to like the 1980s, like the pre cable boom way of television working?

[C]

No. Because there was a law that you couldn't self deal. Right. So if you were an ab, if you were ABC and you were buying television shows for your fall slate, you couldn't buy shows from yourself.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So there were dozens of very robust independent studios and production companies and you know, they sold to each other with regularity and that was all struck down and now it's all siloed and completely out of control. So I in, in terms of like limited Options, sure. But in terms of what's populating them, it's very different.

[A]

There's the whole side of this, which is it needs to be stated again that this will have probably yet another deleterious effect on the employment numbers of specifically Los Angeles and Hollywood and people working on television shows and people working on movies and people working within these industries, from business affairs to props. And that is something that we've been living here for a fairly long time now. And if you've been here since COVID and through the strikes and through the fires, I don't know how many more times this town can get off the mat. You know what I mean? Like, it is really a feeling when you drive through Hollywood, specifically when you talk to people who are working in this industry, that the train's leaving the station and that the work is happening in Atlanta or in Europe, it's in London or in London or wherever. And that things are being shot places on. Basically, it was like, it's like watching NAFTA happen again, where it's like, we're just out. We're offshoring all of this work and then bringing it back into the country, and we're losing decades of institutional knowledge about how to make things. And producers who are being raised in this system don't have the same kind of swagger and belief in the power of what they're doing. Like, it's way more of a numbers game, and it's way more of a. Like, how do we flip this and flip that and flip this? Now, I'm not saying that that hasn't been always, what an element of that in Hollywood, but when you hear stories about, say, like, Jerry Bruckheimer and how he's just like, nope, we're going to get this plane and we're going to throw it off the top of this cliff here. You know, like, I'm going to get that shot, and I'm going to get this actor, and we're going to make sure that this is what the next generation of people talk about for.

[C]

Is that actor Rebecca from Landman, because she's really good. Screaming on airplanes. I do want to talk about that episode.

[A]

I worry about all that, you know, and I worry about what this means when we get. When we erase all of this, because that's. That. That is, aside from, like, the movies, stuff that you see in the. During the Oscars, that's what this is about. It's about, like, an American craft and an American trade that people have been practicing for more than, like, a century. Now almost. And like it, it matters.

[C]

LA is the new Detroit and I, I fucking love Detroit. It's a great city with great, you know, it still has vibrancy, but in terms of the auto industry being the lifeblood of a world class place and then just having that.

[A]

Do you have to wait two hours to get into a diner in Detroit.

[C]

Or see, this is your best take and you are just throwing it away.

[A]

I'll save it for like a mailbag or something.

[C]

It is. I still think Chris sent me text that I'm still thinking about all the time. Yeah. Like I'm not trying to sugarcoat the past but because people here were always driven by money and making money. But it was, there was a sense that a lot of people could make money in this town or in this industry. And even if you weren't one of the very few unicorns who made a fortune, you, a J. Kelly type, if you will, you could make a living.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You could work here. There was opportunity, there was promise. Everything in the country is now just so six people can double their wealth. I mean it's appalling but like it does not. This thing that we have been dragged along for, I don't like the people just continue to compound mistakes that have become profitable for them. I mean, that's how you buy HBO with debt and somehow sell it for ten times as much. It's a absolutely rigged game. But we are bearing the consequences.

[A]

With that caveat about what it could do to the city and what it could do to the industry aside. Because I think that, that there would be elements of it if Comcast had bought it. If Paramount had bought it. Netflix had bought it. When you buy some merger here, you shrink it. Yeah, right. I would say that the thing that is the most interesting for me to think about and also scary but also like kind of provocative.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is the changes that could happen to the way the US but also global audiences get, get what they want to watch and how they watch it and in what way. Like we are, you know, everything that's coming out of Netflix is like, we will honor the contracts that Warner Brothers has with its filmmakers. We believe in HBO that is like a crown jewel.

[C]

What about with its writer producers on magic shows? They can honor those. Hold on, let me just write a quick email.

[A]

But the model for Netflix is binge releases for, for television shows and very short windows in very limited releases for its movies. And I think that like the loudest voices in the room are like, that's not how it's supposed to go. And Netflix is like, you guys want it to be one way, but it's another way.

[C]

Exactly. It's.

[A]

It's actually 98% of this country does not want to wait a week to watch the next episode of what their television show is. And you guys want it to be a week to week thing because you want to be able to build up anticipation about White Lotus. And the idea of succession or White Lotus or Chair Company being binge releases is kind of mind blowing. And you have to rethink the popularity and the importance of major pieces of.

[C]

It's also a question of how comfortable are they with different philosophies. There's also two different kinds of. People don't want this. There's what you just said, which I think is accurate. The numbers bear out the fact that the Netflix model is now the way people watch TV when they're not just scrolling on their phones. There's also also Bob Iger saying giving a billion dollars worth of IP to OpenAI to say like go play with Donald Duck, we don't care. Nobody fucking wants that either. But you know, that's keeps the economy afloat apparently. So that's what we're getting. That's different. I think that there is a pie in the sky world here where Netflix looked at what it lacked and we've talked about for years. Because it's not a secret. It's not. Doesn't take, you know, a brave analytical mind to understand what it lacked, which is the deep bench of beloved IP and the potential to grow in. In. In areas that are not as dependent on certain market forces like. Like basically Disney and Universal during the strikes. And during the strikes have theme parks.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that is a huge profit driver. Netflix is very, very, very, very much wants to be in that space. And so far it has the Stranger Things play, you know, and these like event spaces opening in the mall, you.

[A]

Know, the sort of execution that they would game thing.

[C]

So they're working towards it. This potentially supercharges that ability for them. You know, there's the. I don't know if you know this, but there's a Harry Potter studio tour in Leavesden. I can't say that I've been there recently, but I have fucking been there recently. And like that is a huge thing. And so this gives them the DC and the Harry Potter and the things that they have lacked. And can they as part of that understand that there is still in the same way that the New Yorker still publishes a magazine. But the issues are 9.99 or 12.99 for an issue. Can Netflix honor the fact that there is still a cohort of aging fans who are like keep our HBO delivered to us the way we like it. And Netflix's longer play is it doesn't matter how they parcel out the season of the chair company, it's that we will get it afterwards.

[A]

Well, I almost wonder whether HBO returns to its plepler era of it's. It's a subscription service, you know and it is a add on within Netflix that you can have sure to have.

[C]

It be that way.

[A]

And you know, whether or not that winds up being what. What happens is that HBO shows will be released once a week. You know, there's this level of programming I personally don't understand why you buy something and then you're like that just we're just buying it to preserve it or we're buying it as like a tile. But you know, stranger things have happened. Netflix has started to mess with its release schedule with certain things, obviously stranger things, but even like Mulaney and things like that where it's going up once a week. I think it's silly to be like Ted Sarando said this, said that there's no, no evidence to suggest that weekly works better than binge binge release. So that'll never happen. Now it might change. It might change because it might be that creat and say I don't want my thing to go up in one night on a Wednesday and have it be over by Monday.

[C]

It would be nice to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think we've hopefully like Charlie Brown with the football, have learned by now not to trust these people. I mean these people like the cc, everybody, literally everybody. But I think that Netflix's goal that a lot of people didn't see coming for a long time wasn't to become the new hbo. It was to become TV with late night shows, with sports, with a deep bench, all kinds of things they want to be.

[A]

It's the tissues Kleenex thing. It's like lots of people in this world now turn on Netflix as the way that we used to turn on television.

[C]

So is there a version of that in three years where to your point it won't be unlike how it will be quite unlike. But in some ways it will be similar to turning on TV 20 years ago where there'll be a number of channels, a number of options and if you pay however many extra dollars a month you get hbo.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And you get HBO new shows as opposed to Catalog, which are just, you.

[A]

Know, I could see them bidding aggressively for the sports rights for any number of major leagues, including the Premier League or the NBA at some point, or NFL at some, like, league pass or at some point. And that would also be like an add on. And if you want NFL League pass in your Netflix, it's another 250 a year or whatever. They could charge whatever they want because at a certain point, it's going to be the only place to go look for stuff.

[C]

Guys, I'm looking at the camera. It's bad. It's just bad if. If the majority of television is owned by three companies. Yeah, there's. There's not a good.

[A]

I mean, like, I watched this happen. I mean, like, there's there's chilling reminders of what happened in newspapers. You know, I was just watching this happen in my dad's industry as he. As he worked for most of his adult life in newspapers. And now the newspaper he worked for is like nine pages long, you know, and it was essentially a consolidation within the industry of several chains buying up all local newspapers. Then it was private equity and debt, getting involved with those. Those conglomerates. And then it was sell it off for parts or run it at the most bare minimum level to still, like, scrape Google Ads. But that was an industry that was just like, it worked. Classifieds and advertising within newspapers paid for really important journalism and really thoughtful journalism. Really, really, like, essential ways like understanding the world around you. And that whole thing has collapsed. Television, you could make an argument, you know, for a lot of the stuff you might watch on Netflix or Warner Brothers. Discovery is much more like, it's not essential. You know, it's not essential that we watch White Lotus the way it is, probably that you get reporting on City hall, but if it gets. If it goes in the same direction, where it's just like, well, could we do White Lotus in. In upstate New York? Would that be possible? Or Bulgaria, you know, because it's easier to shoot there or whatever it is. Like, that will be.

[C]

We'll start to feel that Jared Kushner doesn't want to be part of this deal. So he can make sure that David Simon can make another miniseries.

[A]

Are you sure?

[C]

I am sure.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

That's the one thing I'm sure of.

[A]

Jared Kushner was like, I fucking love Wheel in the City.

[C]

What?

[A]

Generation Kills, Season two. Yeah, he does.

[C]

Yeah, he fucking does. We're all going to have to live it.

[A]

The only other thing I wanted to ask you about, which we can probably save for, like, A larger conversation at some point is my understanding that the way that Netflix does its deals with talent is quite different than the way things were traditionally done in the way that lots of other networks do it. And that is, it's all upfront. There are no back end participation, there's no residuals.

[C]

Yeah. They used to pay like 125% to make up for potential. Right. Earnings on the back end.

[A]

I'm just going to, I'll just say I'm fascinated to see if that changes.

[C]

That is a, that is a huge point to make because. And it has changed a lot under Zaslav. But there was reason, there was a reason HBO had its reputation as being profligate, let's say, because they were, they, they treat talent very well. Not speaking from experience. No. I mean, I'm treated fine. But like, but they, they, they pay a premium.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

To be premium.

[A]

Well, they also have different metrics for what success is too.

[C]

Yeah. Although that has had to change a little bit in the streaming era as well. Because. Because everything has sort of turned into one thing. Yeah, but that is. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

Well, the margins have fallen for everyone. I mean, like that, that's the other connection to make with the newspaper industry. And it came up when we were talking about the situation with the strike a few years ago, there was a sense that this, you know, private equity derivatives based, soul crushing behemoth had come for this industry. I mean, obviously it had already come, but there was a. I think, speaking of David Simon, perhaps naively noble thought that because of the strength, relative strength of the unions in this town, that it might be able to make a stand. It did not go like the end of Endgame.

[A]

I would say I will be fascinated to watch the awards season that is upon us. The next sort of big moment in this story, which I will be proved wrong when this is not the case, but I believe is in early January.

[C]

When, when Amy Poehler wins best podcast.

[A]

Is in early January when I think, I think they have to like make some sort of call. I think Paramount set some sort of deadline with like when they need to accept this offer or not. And then I believe the Netflix stuff will stretch into March provided nothing changes. I've noted with interest, you know, like clips coming out of the Red Sea Film Festival in Saudi Arabia with folks like Dakota Johnson speaking kind of whimsically about everything. But then on the flip side of it, like, David Marchese had a really good interview with Kristen Stewart recently in the New York Times where she talked about like, basically kind of wanting everything to be wiped away and started anew, you know, and that, like, it would maybe. I don't know if she was referring directly to the Netflix stuff, but, like, was just like, maybe it's better if this all goes away and we start something fresh and equitable again, like Mark.

[C]

Duplass's show that he made for Netflix.

[A]

But I'm just saying, like, there are a lot of varying opinions. And if, if people have to go on red carpets and people are doing awards, FYC interviews and talking about all this stuff and they'll be asked about this, I'll be curious to see the response from the creative community.

[C]

I'm very excited to hear the response of the creative community. You know, who doesn't give a shit about the creative community? The people making this deal.

[B]

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[C]

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[A]

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Grab it today and fragrance free or with SPF 30. Available at your local Walmart. Let's talk about Pluribus episode seven, the Gap. We've got nine episodes this season, so we're rounding second, I guess. Maybe. Maybe we're. We're on third, but thinking about stealing home.

[C]

I think that's more. I like it. Yeah, we're not quite in the red.

[A]

Zone, but it's clutch time.

[C]

Right? It's overtime. We're driving. What could go wrong?

[A]

This episode was written by Jen Carroll and directed, I noted, by Adam Bernstein. This is one of the most beautiful, beautifully directed episodes of television I've seen in quite some time.

[C]

Adam Bernstein been directing with Vince since Breaking Bad.

[A]

He's one of the goats. Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, many other shows, including Fargo, and is married to Jessica Hecht.

[C]

Oh, really?

[A]

Goat? New York character actor Jessica Hecht.

[C]

I didn't know. Do you google that or do you.

[A]

Just know that sometimes I look at people's personal life section on their Wikipedia page?

[C]

Do you have a parasocial relationship with television director Adam Burns?

[A]

I was talking with our buddy Brian Raftery. Yeah, we exchanged his noir recommendations between each other.

[C]

You guys, just classic gatekeeping.

[A]

Well, no, it's physical media, so you wouldn't understand. And Brian was like, oh, I've been on this really great Eve Montan run. Don't read his personal life section.

[C]

On his way. Skip right past that. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, yeah, anybody who was making films in the 70s, I do not read their personal life section.

[C]

I think that's absolutely fair. Yeah, it's a long time ago.

[A]

It's not my business.

[C]

None of my business, you know, so the bodies are buried, by the way. This is just also, I. I've never met the man, so I feel like I can. I can continue to assume things and gas him up at a distance. But like, if you talk about the type of TV industry that we would like, there are aspects of what Vince Gilligan does that are just what I think it's how it's supposed to work. One example would be this episode of Pluribus, his show where veteran director who has done great work with him before is given an opportunity to do things that I don't know if he's had a chance to do before, like one man's solo trek across the Darien Gap.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Also, Jen Carroll, I didn't know this was. Started her career as Vince's assistant and then grew into being a writer on the show, which is again, how this is supposed to work.

[A]

Yes. I thought this episode was mind blowing. It's largely silent. There's a little bit of dialogue in the beginning.

[C]

There's some singing.

[A]

Most of the dialogue, honestly is just her talking into the answering machine asking for Gatorade. But her being Carol, but it's largely a two hander, then two hands never meet. It's Carol in New Mexico, feeling initially pretty pumped up about her own bodily autonomy and the riches that are at her feet in terms of working on her golf game. She basically is living out a long. It's like the beginning of when Kevin's home at home alone. He's like, I can do anything. I can eat Sundays and watch gangster movies and nobody's gonna tell me to stop. She does this with playing golf, with switching from her police car to her Rolls Royce.

[C]

She goes to the hot springs, she goes to Santa Fe.

[A]

Goes to Santa Fe, takes herself a Georgia o' Keeffe off the wall, replaces the poster that she has of that painting with the original painting, has a meal out in kind of almost celebration. Memorial of her lost partner.

[C]

And that look to me, locals can tell me I was getting the top of Hotel Chaco vibes, which is where I spent most of 2019. So I just. If anyone knows where they shot it.

[A]

But it seemed like meals from across her life. Like a meal from Martha. Were those cream puffs? What were they like, profiteroles? Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

But she was. She was bawling out until she's not.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Until the heart is the lonely hunter. And. And she writes in giant white paint asking for, for them to come back to the others.

[C]

She just fires a firework almost at her face. Well, yeah, I, I gotta say, we are all just vessels for our own personal experiences and emotions. And, and this episode did remind me of some of my recent behavior in London where it's like, at first you're like, I can go out to dinner at all the best restaurants on the vittles list by myself whenever I want, and I can browse these bookstores and things and it feels great. Then you're there a little bit longer, a little bit more alone, and you're like, no, I must continue this bon vivant lifestyle and eat this perfectly cooked piece of white fish on a pile of brown beans and have this Portuguese wine and choke it down. It's fine. It's fine.

[A]

And then eventually you find yourself eating soft broccoli and drinking Na Peroni.

[C]

No. Then you find yourself not leaving your apartment, just deliverooing from Chinatown, drinking an Na Asahi, being like, if the deliveroo driver stays around long enough, I will hug him.

[A]

Bro, I know what you're talking about.

[C]

It's real.

[A]

I mean, like, I, you know, my, my wife had to travel back to New York a lot this year and like every time she would leave, I was like, nobody fucking knows. Damage I'm about to do.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I'm about to get through the world of cinema. I am going to rewatch Lost. I am going to read Anna Karenina. I am going to get in great shape.

[C]

Yeah, I just didn't do it. Only the last thing I did.

[A]

I just didn't do it. Now part of that is because, you know, like the corrupting influence of my smartphone, but part of it is also because, like, life's about other people and it's hard to be an island. And that's what we kind of see with her.

[C]

I loved, I did love that emotional aspect of, of the behavior, which is that like, she's. She. And you saw it specifically in the golf. You know, something that I, I feel like you should have covered this with Tim on Monday because you're both much more passionate about it. You've golf.

[A]

I'll be asking Tim about how he feels about Carol's golf swing because If Carol has six weeks or however much time passes, 12 days to 48 days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If she has that amount of time, she can be at the range all day every day and she should be getting dialed like she should be just completely striping it by that point. But at that point, if I did that, if I did that, I would like to think that my form would be a little bit smoother. But we can interrogate this 12 days to 48 days.

[C]

That's basically. Yeah, that was my hitch in London before Thanksgiving, basically. And that sort of. That tracked with my psychological tailspin. But specifically about the golf, the way it begins with an attempt to achieve normalcy where she drives to the club and she does things properly, as if the world still.

[A]

Even though there's a bison on the fairway.

[C]

Exactly. She is in denial and she's attempting to regulate herself by re establishing some baseline of reality. Yes. And then after a certain amount of time, she's on the top of a parking garage taking out office windows. Yes. I didn't quite get there, but, you know, one more trip.

[A]

The other half of this episode is about Minusos and his journey from Paraguay to eventually New Mexico, one would think. But he gets as far as the Darien Gap, where you have to basically walk 100km through the jungle and through all this danger. And this is a.

[C]

A huge.

[A]

You know, this is a huge, like, path that people take to get to this country in the first place. From south and Central America. And it's basically the crossing between Colombia and Panama. And he drives from Paraguay through Peru, through Ecuador, gets to Colombia, gets to, like, the point where people have been dropping their belongings because they can no longer carry them. A group of others come out and say, please, like, we can get you to New Mexico tonight. Like, let us help you. You need water. You're gonna get stabbed by changa palms. Did I not know was something I needed to worry about?

[C]

Yo, this is literally what the concierge people at Virgin ATL said to me on Monday. They were like, we'll get you there. It's fine. It's fine. We'll give you some Bloody Mary flavored chips, crisps.

[A]

I thought that this stuff was fucking extraordinary. Like, the filmmaking was beautiful. Watching this guy, it made me actually think, like, is. Is this guy the hero of this.

[C]

Show in a more traditional sense?

[A]

He's walking and he's like, I am not one of them. I am here to save the world. You know his mantra that he's sort of saying throughout. And I just thought that this was such a cool, brave, creative, interesting piece of television.

[C]

Do we know where they filmed any of that stuff?

[A]

I don't.

[C]

I will go on record that that was not New Mexico.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I feel very confident that some of those stunning ocean vistas were not from.

[A]

So what did you think about it?

[C]

I loved the show. I loved this show. I loved this episode. And there are moments that I'm, you know, that I'm eager to discuss. I think that Menuzos as a character, and I want to get the actor right. Carlos Manuel Vezca is phenomenal and so brightly and brilliantly drawn with such an efficiency of line that we understand so much about him. And he barely talks, you know, the sort of fetishistic almost leaving of money for every time he takes gas. I also appreciate when shows, especially process driven shows like Gilligan, shows like you and I know because we grew up watching movies soon to be in the Netflix library, that if you do need to take gas from an automobile, you have to use your mouth to do it.

[A]

I don't know if I could do it.

[C]

I wanted to ask you that.

[A]

I think I would barf. I just don't know if I could suck gasoline out of. I mean, I. If put in the position.

[C]

You smoked for 20 years. You could. You could.

[A]

I could do it. I could do it, but I would. I think at this point, creature comforts are such that I would want like my Toms of Maine right there. Just get a good brush in.

[C]

Well, you could help yourself to that.

[A]

It's true.

[C]

He kept doing it.

[A]

His speech to the people who are asking to guide him or ask him, and he's just like, nothing you have is yours. It's all stolen. Was so good. I was just like, this is also Gilligan man. Again, just finding someone that's like what.

[C]

They used to run in movie theaters in 2020. The ArcLight was built on stolen land.

[A]

Okay, you like this show.

[C]

But I would say, and I'd be interested to hear what other people think about this as well. I think this is kind of a litmus test and a patience test of how much you want the process. I don't really have a from the heart, I'm passionate about it criticism of it, but it did remind me of two things. One, I am not a generally a day in the life guy, not a big Mrs. Dalloway guy. You know what I mean? Not a Ulysses guy. Like, I don't mind. And maybe this is. I think I would say this even before I started just, you know, watching British man on the street food reels for most of my lived awake experience, that I don't mind cutting to the most interesting parts of the story and not needing to show every single detail. Even though I, you know, I praise the doc review of Better Call Saul to high heaven more than I did. So there are aspects of this episode, and maybe this is Also coloring my entire appreciation for this show and what Vince Gilligan does generally in the same spirit with which I was like, ah, he promoted his assistant. That's wonderful. In that what I was Pause. The best parts of writers rooms not pause, but like digression, not pause like in the Hot 97. Let me be okay. The best parts of writers rooms always, always, always are the first two to three weeks. Cause it's the most pie in the sky when everyone in a well run room, everyone can express all the subtleties and nuance of what excites them about the characters or a character's potential journey that season. And you collectively, you write symphonies of emotional arc and places for them to go and all these fun little like flavorings and little finally drawn filigrees of what you could do in a scene if there was room for it. And then reality hits and the network or studio wants outlines and all of the fiddly stuff that you fell in love with most falls away. And that's okay. That's part of the process. I had the experience recently over there where it's like there are things that I am passionate about in a particular episode and things that I will remember and mourn and no one will notice it because the spirit of those pieces got distilled into three lines near the end of the episode. What Pluribus does is find the space or take up the space for all those little details so that Carol's. There's room for Carol's golf breakdown, her fireworks journey, and her Gatorade thirst. By the way, that is the best flavor of Gatorade.

[A]

I disagree, but go ahead.

[C]

This is tearing this podcast apart.

[A]

It's lemon.

[C]

It's lemon yellow.

[A]

Yeah, Lemon lime.

[C]

Is that just because it's the original one and you're like, I'm a purist.

[A]

I just, I've never been a fruit punch guy. Full.

[C]

You're the Antonin Scalia of gingerbread.

[A]

I've never drank high C. I never really liked Kool Aid. I've never been a red drink guy.

[C]

Because all the fruits are mixed.

[A]

I just don't. What is that?

[C]

It's delicious, I'm sure.

[A]

But I think that lime and lime Gatorade is like how you get back on the field.

[C]

That's. You sound like someone raw dogging a 12 hour flight when you say that. That's crazy.

[A]

And when I say get back on the field, I mean after you've had nine beers and you try to do.

[C]

The dairy and get home anyway. It's a long Digression to say that, like, I think I was feeling that in this episode, that, I guess at the end of the day, I totally get it. At the end of the day, I appreciate that this show has space for all of it, and that is essential to the way he makes tv. There was a part of me that.

[A]

Was reacting to how cinematic it was. Like, so for me, it was. There's a world in which that show, this episode, could have gone very wrong. You know, I mean, it's asked a lot of us this season. I think it's a challenging. I think it's in some ways slow tv. I think it's very much somebody who's like, I'm not getting notes or it doesn't seem like it. But I think that the way that they have sprinkled minutsos over the course of the season, the way that the only times he has talked have been the most profound insights into who he is as a person. Whether it's teaching himself English on this drive to America, whether it's his rejection of this entire basically invasion because of his hatred for his mother and how unlike his mother, this woman seems to be.

[C]

Well, yeah, and he's contemptuous of any kindness or charity.

[A]

And the juxtaposition of that with Carol's kind of like very American consumerist narcissism and her needs, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Are pretty fascinating. And this guy is basically only, like, he only lets the others help him when he can't help himself and when he's basically incapacitated.

[C]

And I couldn't tell. What was your reading of the last image we have of him as the helicopter's coming down? Is he waving for help?

[A]

It was ambiguous to me. I. I couldn't tell whether he was waving them away or waving for help. I mean, clearly he's on death's door, so he needs help. And, you know, I. I have no idea. I assumed for a second when he backs into the palm, I was like, I think this guy might be dead. And this might be one of the all time, like, oh, my God. But can you imagine if you would just watch that guy for 35 minutes walking, and then he dies by slipping into a palm tree.

[C]

And we would be on this podcast being like, only Vince Gilligan has the creative stones and corporate freedom to tell a story like that.

[A]

Found myself in a very simple way, just like, on, like, a very basic level, just being like, now I care about this guy, and now I am rooting for this guy, and I need this guy to get to Carol and It might be that, I mean, the way they have set it up is extraordinary. Where it's Carol Breaks, essentially.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And she, she, and she brings OSHA back and she's like, I need human contact, even if it's not the real thing. And this guy is going to show up, is going to be like, I fucking walked here.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Because you said, come if I want to save the world, and I want to save the world, and now you want cream puffs and hanging out that.

[C]

Yeah, I, I, I do. I think that's, I think you're right.

[A]

I mean, I, that's an amazing tension to put into television. That's awesome.

[C]

It is. And it's brilliantly and patiently set up.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I, I also really like the observation you made about, about cultural differences as well as personal differences that think.

[A]

About, like, the level of conservation where he's drinking rainwater and me a Gatorade.

[C]

Yeah. She's demanding things.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Restock a sprouts for me. Turn the lights back on. Because I don't like, Because I don't like the coyotes.

[A]

She didn't ask for them to fix her car. She was like, I'll just take a Rolls Royce. He's walking back and forth up a mountain to keep putting gasoline that he's sucking out of other cars and then leaving money for into his mg, which is his car that he has always had. It's been in his garage. It's under this tarp. Like, the way they're defining these characters is amazing. And with no dialogue.

[C]

Yeah. And you can also take a step back and appreciate the game board because Mr. Diabate, for example, is quite compelling and we're quite empathetic towards him, even though he's behaving like a bit of a rascal, a little bit like Yves Montanor.

[A]

It's like there's lots of different ways to live in this world. Right.

[C]

If you look at his Wikipedia page, you skip the personal. Yeah. There are a lot of different ways to live in this world, a lot of different ways to respond to it. And what is your, your obligation to any kind of code or morality when everything is gone? It's a very, very, very subtle kind of show. And you say slow TV in a way. I think that's really, I think that's really right.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I was recording Rewatchables with Rob and Joe and Bill yesterday, and Rob brought up a really great Ryan Coogler quote which is circulating because somebody was asking him on the sort of sinner's award trail about working on X Files. And he's like, you know, this is my first real foray into tv. And he was like, I was talking with a TV writer. And the way they put it was a movie is about the most important moment in a character's life, and a TV show is about the most important journey in a character's life.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And you can literalize that for this episode. But I think in general, what they're doing on this show by showing so much quote, unquote, like low lowercase A action of like, I am walking over here, I am going to refill my Brita, or I am going go look for. This is. You're. You are. You are participating in this journey. Like, I mean, you get to the end of an episode of Pluribus and you might be tired, you might be bored, you might be, whatever. And it's kind of, you know, they're giving you this sort of secondary visceral feeling of what the characters are going through.

[C]

It's an interesting way to think about it because I think one of the defining aspects of what makes TV TV historically, even before the Prestige era, is the churn and the change. And you could look at it like a soap opera where everyone has to be dead and then be alive again, or in professional wrestling, where people turn heel and turn hero and you just have to service the engine of plot over time and quickly. And we talked a lot about, like, the comedies of Mike Schur being among the few or at least being trailblazers, and the idea that 30 minute shows could also evolve the most traditional format for comfort and stability. You could nudge towards things and people would respond to that. Serialized storytelling. If you look at the. The Albuquerque oeuvre of Vince Gilligan, it is a masterclass in storytelling as evolution or as transformation. How do people become other things? And embracing that as the thesis of the show, whether it's. It's Walter White or How does Jimmy become Saul? This is a very, very confident snapshot of the most extreme possible context.

[A]

I also wonder whether or not, like, he's talked a little bit about. I think. I can't remember whether he's like, I kind of know where it ends, but I'm not uncertain of how it gets there. Or maybe he's not even sure of how it ends. I don't know. But I do feel like there is a real organic. And then this happens, and then this happens, and then what if this happens in the writer's room and in the writing of the show?

[C]

Yeah, that's something that I would definitely like to talk to him about, because the most. Well, there are many. But one of the most famous stories to come out of these shows is that that season premiere, not teaser, but the opening scene of the penultimate season of Breaking Bad, I believe, is of.

[A]

The gun in the car with the.

[C]

Guns in the trunk and the bacon that spells out 50. And he's gone on the record saying, we didn't know what we were gonna do with the gun. We like to challenge ourselves. And you're right. There are moments whether maybe it's the drones. It feels like that to me. That, like, someone suggested it. Someone made a joke, and I bet they laughed. And just like, I bet they laughed when even Rhea Seehorn probably laughed when she went to the set. I thought it was interesting that they built that cul de sac that she lives on as a set to avoid fueling another, like, tourism boom. Because the Walter White House is a house in Albuquerque, so that's all constructed, and they can play with it and keep it as they want. The fact that the failed drone with the misweighted trash is just hanging from the lamp and probably will throughout the run of the show. Yeah, it's fun. It's also. I like the show. I was challenged by this episode, but it is very fun to talk about because it deserves the rigor, the analysis.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I think it's pretty sophisticated. I didn't want to take away the Landman commentary game from you and give it to Tim Symons, who watched very graciously his first ever episode of Landman. I thought it was a pretender and sober episode of the show with Rebecca's plot kind of accepted.

[C]

No, what, even that, like, there is a sense. First of all, I. I put this on Instagram. Like, Sam Elliott ate a corn dog. And the direct, like, Stephen K. I believe, is the director, like, lingered on his. Like, on his. His. His tongue coming to, like, take in the dog. Like, like, it is quite a visceral.

[A]

Speaking of slow tv.

[C]

Yeah, truly. So I was like, someone is laughing here, and I hope it's Sam Elliot. So I'll give it that. I also continue to think that someone stepped in or took on some sort of role in shaping and guiding things, because there's just a feeling of, like, well, let's put all the characters in scenes together and see what happens. You know, like, the two dudes who live with them. What's his name? And what's his name?

[A]

Well, Neil. Nate.

[C]

Neil. Nate.

[A]

And Dale.

[C]

And Dale. And Dale is fully methamphetamine addict also now, which was a great scene. Yeah. Like on tv, in life, the guys that also live in your house probably don't drive 8 hours with you to.

[A]

I also didn't understand why you lived.

[C]

In a share house in Boston the day. And I bet those guys would have driven with you.

[A]

I have many men who would drive many hours with me, but I didn't understand why they take private planes everywhere. But Tommy couldn't be like, can I use the plane because of penance, because they needed to suffer, go through pain.

[C]

I'm just saying that, like, I'll accept the ingredy of that in exchange for all of the characters in a scene together.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Similarly, the Rebecca scene was absurd and frankly, a little too close to my own experience on an airplane two nights ago. But. But at least they were like, if she's here, we need to give her a second type of scene to do.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

It cannot only be getting phone calls.

[A]

About guys dying at oil wells and.

[C]

Walking around like a velociraptor that someone has hung a bag on.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like a hat stand.

[A]

Do you think Emtex has more workplace disasters than other oil companies?

[C]

It's a great question. I thought you were going to say than other companies, in which case I feel like, like, probably. But other oil companies. I don't know.

[A]

I don't know either.

[C]

It's a volatile space.

[A]

We've got a couple of balls up in the air right now.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You know, I mean, just because of the chemical leak, which is still ongoing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because that guy's blind now. And then now we have this collision at another oil well, so.

[C]

That was dramatic. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I'm glad you watched it. You do your homework.

[C]

I find that. And I don't want to. I don't want to, like, say anything rash like that. This show is good. I don't want to say that, but these last two weeks have my experience. Watching them was more pleasurable than anticipatory. For how much fun it would be to talk to you about them.

[A]

It's just you being like you and me, Taylor. We're not so different after all, man.

[C]

I also, I texted you, so I burned this, but I was hoping that we could make a pact on the podcast that should one of us expire early, we will cammy each other's grave sites.

[A]

Oh, yeah? Well, I'm not wasting Pappy Van Winkle on your grave site.

[C]

Extravagant.

[A]

Wasteful.

[C]

What about NA Pappy? Do they have that?

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure they do.

[C]

Happy vanishing pip. Mr. Pibb. Just pour that shit out.

[A]

I did want to ask you, you know, I asked. I, I mentioned to you that the hot. One of the hottest things in TV right now is heated. Rival.

[C]

Yeah, hottest in all senses.

[A]

Which is the hockey show that's on hbo, which.

[C]

Hbo Max.

[A]

Right, HBO Max, which is incredibly popular for one thing. For another is it comes from Jacob Tierney, who is the director on Shoresy. And it again is from the Letterkenny.

[C]

Shorzy kind of extended hockey universe.

[A]

Extended hockey universe. This is a adaptation of, I think, a fairly successful novel about a long running love affair between two incredibly popular hockey players. And I thought this show was pretty good, man.

[C]

I think that if you were going to get me into a hockey show, I think probably the comedy over the melodrama.

[A]

Yes. I'd love for you to watch Shoresy anytime you're ready.

[C]

I kind of felt like you had me watch this because it's funny. Fine. I think I can see why it's good. It didn't draw me in as like, I want to watch a lot of this because I also, sorry to our Canadian listeners. I. I don't care about hockey. I don't really care about hockey.

[A]

Yeah, it's fine, man.

[C]

I. It just feels cold. Like, literally, I'm like, I don't want to be in that room. It combines many of my least favorite things. Cold physical violence and dental trauma. Like, I. Yeah, it's just. Those are my. That's my red line. You know what I mean? But. But I could see it and see why it's popular.

[A]

I think, I think the reason why this show is so popular is it's incredibly graphic sex.

[C]

Okay, yeah, say more about that.

[A]

I mean, it is pretty boundary pushing, I think.

[C]

Did you. Please describe it, Describe it more. I'm gonna close my eyes. Pretend this is an audiobook.

[A]

No, it's like these two guys really get after it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, well, like, that's what hockey players do. Do you think, think it is more or less accurate than Rebecca on Landman's One Night Stand?

[A]

We didn't get to see her really go. Go for it. Right?

[C]

We did get to see that she apparently has slept with the Hangover proofed heir to the Bed, Bath and Beyond fortune.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Because that guy.

[A]

Candle for his bathroom.

[C]

He's got a candle for his bathroom. He had aromatherapy tabs for her in. In the panhandle or wherever they were.

[A]

Look, man, like, as you're finding out, everybody's got a story to them, you.

[C]

Know, it's A beautiful thing. I would check out more of the show, but I just didn't look. It combines all the things I don't like. Character driven drama and explicit sex. Sorry, those are my red lines. Well, and hockey.

[A]

Sure. Thanks to Kai for producing us today.

[C]

Last thing.

[A]

Kya too big for us again.

[C]

Well, she's a Golden Globe nominee now. Just like Amanda Seyfried or whatever.

[A]

Wait till, like, it's gonna get all the Amy Polish Civil War. When it's like, does Kya get like an actual statue? You know, that kind of thing.

[C]

You think that's gonna be a problem? First of all, Amy seems like someone who would.

[A]

She would be such a benevolent.

[C]

Take care of her staff, unlike us. We would be fucking monsters.

[A]

Yeah, we're like, let's get it down to 64 degrees in this room and.

[C]

Actually give us one trophy and then we'll just fucking see subscription to Netflix and the New Yorker. No, no one's gonna get this at the very end of our long podcast. But just the music things you were on Bandsplain did.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I did the best music of the year with Yossi on Bandsplain. It was a really fun pod. We talked about our favorite albums in the year. And you can find. Yassi did a playlist. They did a playlist for Bandsplain. And I know you're. You're bringing this up so that you.

[C]

Can talk about your. I did my 50 songs of the year playlist. Yes.

[A]

Thank you for gesturing towards my accomplishments before talking about Playlist.

[C]

I want to talk about both, but also, I wanted to turn back on you. So, yeah, Spotify at Andy Greenwell is public, but are you going to release the CR Cut? Because I happen to know. I've seen. I've seen drafts of your own.

[A]

No, I mean, I gave. I released the CR cut. You can find. You can find my Spotify profile if you want.

[C]

That's not private. You're like, this is the songs I like this year. Yeah. What is your attitude towards that list? Because, like, there's no geese on it. So did you feel like you didn't.

[A]

Need to represent it? Like, I mean, like, it's. It's just. I haven't finished it, but, like, I don't have as. As particular a set of rules as you do where it's like, no repeats.

[C]

No.

[A]

What was your whole thing? It's like one. One song per artist. Features don't count.

[C]

Yeah. So if, like, it's. If there's someone could appear on Playlist twice if they were the. If they were the. The primary artist on one song and a featured artist on another.

[A]

Yeah, I just, I just forgot to put a key song on mine. But I also hadn't been like, everybody come look at my songs yet.

[C]

I have been like that. Yeah, I'm obsessed with like curating this and you're just hanging out watching explicit sex shows and it's just like there's two types of people in this world.

[A]

That's how this podcast works.

[C]

What do you want to be? I didn't realize we were really Bert and Ernie, but 13 or 14 years in, I guess we are.

[A]

Thank you to Kai. Thank you to everybody for listening. So next week we are going to be doing our best shows of the year, I believe on Monday.

[C]

Okay, I'm ready.

[A]

And then we'll be talking about all your favorite TV later in the week. We have a mailbag coming up. We have hopefully a special episode on Pluribus coming up. And yeah, we'll be with you probably until the last week. It's.

[C]

And then after that, who knows, who knows what's gonna happen in the new year. I can't wait to find out.

[A]

Talk to you guys soon. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day. Give it a try at mintmobile. Com.

[C]

Switch Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow, 135 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. Cmtmobile. Com.