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Welcome to the Watch Floor. I'm Sarah Adams. Every once in a while, you hear a story and it seems small, but when you take time to think through it, you realize, oh, this is much more concerning than the headline really told us. FBI put out information that they found an intrusion into their system. An intrusion they believe, of course, occurred by hackers backed by China. When it came out, it was really this like, oh, it was just the metadata behind surveillance systems, et cetera. And it just kind of went away. When we think of hacks, we think of, like, stealing massive amounts of data or emails or stealing documents or, heck, even putting something classified online. So when a term like metadata gets thrown around, it's like, oh, yeah, that doesn't seem as big of a deal. So today I want to walk through why that is. Now, when we talk about metadata, one of the interesting things is it's not like it's data that shows you exactly what's being said in a conversation, right? If I'm on the phone with you and someone takes our metadata, they saw we talked, but they don't know what we talked about. And a lot of people think, well, you didn't get the content. It's not really that concerning. However, you end up getting the structure of my call, who I'm calling, the network I'm calling, other people I'm calling, maybe different phones I've used to call, different SIM cards I used to call, different locations I call from. And see how that all starts now, coming together and becoming a bigger picture. Now think of it much broader. If you pull the metadata out of an entire investigation, you can Map every piece of that investigation. You know, when there's surveillance, when there's monitoring who they're collecting on, what's the focus? You know, it's a very interesting thing that a lot of people don't think of. So I want you to think more like, hey, hackers went in and they basically stole the mapping or the structure of investigations. First off, if you're a foreign intelligence service and you can see this map, it gets gives you a leg up in a number of ways. First off, you get to see who investigators in the FBI are watching or targeting. Then you get to see how their surveillance networks are built. You know, how they're laid out, when they're turned on, when they're turned off. You also learn something very interesting. When an investigation goes from monitoring to action. I mean, think of how important that is. If you knew that exact point, right to where they might file charges, you could always work up to that point, close up shop, and completely get away with everything. I mean, it's very interesting when you think through all the ramifications here and once you understand this map, you can avoid all the traps set in the investigation against you. Today I'm going to talk about how intelligence agencies view and use this metadata, how it's treated as sensitive, and it should. And then we're going to talk through what this surveillance system likely contained, the one FBI saying the Chinese government got access to, in their opinion, also what the Chinese government likely got from the data. Then we're going to talk about how these compromises can disrupt investigations. And lastly, we're going to talk about why this type of espionage matters and how it's super valuable and how it even helps stop you from having to recruit a human. If you can actually access this information through a hack and learn how these investigations are at their core. I mean, it's a very fascinating thing to think through. This episode is brought to you by Oneskin, the skincare company led by an all female team of longevity researchers. What caught my attention about Oneskin isn't the hype, it's the science. These researchers asked a very simple question. What drives visible aging at the cellular level? At the core is their patented OS1 peptide, which targets senescent cells. These are the cells that show those visible signs of aging, like wrinkles, loss of elasticity. So instead of covering up this problem, they went and directly targeted the source. That's why I use OS1's face moisturizer every day. I use it in the morning and at night. It's one step Lightweight and it absorbs quickly. That's why I use the OS one face moisturizer every morning and every night. It's one step lightweight and it absorbs quickly. What I personally notice is that my skin feels stronger and more even. It's healthier and more resilient and it's so easy to fit into my routine. What has surprised me is that it feels consistently effective. I wake up every day to like this smooth feeling. A lot of products make promises, but they don't deliver. That's what makes it stand out. It's research backed, it's simple and it delivers. What really makes me trust that it's backed by four peer reviewed studies that show the OS1 peptide actually works at the cellular level, not just on the surface. Born from over a decade of research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try one skin skin at 15 off at OneSkin Co Watch again, that's 15% off at OneSkin Co with Code Watch. And after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support the show and let them know the watch floor sent you. Sometimes the most valuable intelligence isn't the conversation, right? It's knowing who's talking. And then when investigators start listening to who's talking. Before we talk about how this breach matters, strategically, I think it's important to at least talk about what kind of system this is. So it makes a lot more sense to people. So when we say metadata, it can sound so abstract. In reality, it's the backbone of kind of modern investigations. So when we talk about this surveillance related metadata, what that can include is phone numbers involved in communications, call logs and the durations of those calls, IP addresses, timestamps for the communications device, identifiers, so like, you know, IMSIS and imeis and then possible links to like court Authorized Surveillance. Like I said before, it doesn't exactly include the content of a conversation, but that doesn't make this information any less valuable. And I want to give you an analogy so it makes a little more sense. Let's say investigators are watching a building because a meeting is occurring in the building. Let's say you have a listening device, you're getting the content of the meeting, right? That's very simple to understand. Now, the metadata in this situation would be like the security log for the building. So it shows you who entered the building when they arrived, what floors they visited, who else entered the room with them. And you don't exactly hear the conversation. But now you know who is all meeting together, who's all connected. And from that you can start mapping out entire networks. Obviously, this discipline is famously known as link analysis. But this is a very simple way to get started and to identify who's who in the zoo per se. Law enforcement has used this tool for decades. It really became more well known after the 911 attacks because of course, a lot of the counterterrorism work involved mapping out these massive networks of Al Qaeda because it wasn't just about the fighters, it was about the finance system, the safe houses, the facilitators, the recruits. So you had to know all the pieces of the puzzle, and a lot of it was discovered through metadata. So when you analyze the metadata and the patterns behind it, you get something much more than just listening to the content of the calls to. So you might see who investigators are tracking on what networks are actually under scrutiny and what networks aren't even noticed at all. Another thing is you can see what communication channels are actually being monitored. And these insights, of course, can change the course of an investigation if metadata is this powerful for investigators. Imagine if you're the source of the investigation and now you have insight into how the investigators are looking at you, what they're doing to monitor you, when they're monitoring you, who else in your network they're monitoring. It can be very powerful to circumvent this collection against you. So foreign intelligence services don't always like hack to take secrets. Sometimes they want to understand how the adversary is hunting them. Right. This is kind of a game of cat and mouse. So you're playing both sides of the coin here. You need to get information, but you need to make sure when you're going to get information you're protected. And nobody sees that you're going to get this information. So when we say Chinese intelligence likely gain access to like this surveillance metadata platform, here's the example of some of the things they might see. First off, they might now know the named individuals within the Chinese government that the FBI is focused on and actively targeting. They also might see what foreign intelligence networks are under investigation and which ones are linked because of their relationship with China. That's very unique. Another thing is how investigators in the FBI prioritize cases, which then can help you figure out how to stay off the radar. And lastly, when surveillance actually begins and when it ends. And the interesting thing is when surveillance ends and they moved on from you, because that's the end state you want to have you want to get off their radar and make sure that they don't consider you a threat. So think about this. Think if we were running an intelligence network in the United States, collecting, and now we were able to find out, oh, the FBI is collecting on these two cell phones in our network. Think of what we can do now that we're aware of that. First off, we could just shut down those two cell phones and be done. Now we know they can't collect on them. Another thing is we can move our operatives around, switch devices. Another thing is we can completely destroy the devices. We could also cut contact with people we have talked to on those devices. And lastly, we could just keep letting them collect and start feeding misinformation through those two devices. Probably what I would choose to do. So there's a lot of opportunities when you know you're being tracked, monitored, watched, and knowing this really can save this kind of entire espionage network that you're running. Like, you now can be on the offense because you know exactly who they're looking at. This episode is brought to you by Pocket Hose, the world's number one expandable hose. We all know what it's like to use traditional garden hoses. They are beyond frustrating. They kink, they always twist up by the spigot, and anytime you try to do something quickly, they get all tangled up. Old fashioned hoses never stop getting those kinks and those creases. But the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees, which allows for full water flow and really just freedom to water all around your house. And when you're done, you're not stuck dragging this heavy hose around and trying to coil it up. This rust proof anti burst hose literally shrinks to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. The brand new Pocket Hose Copper Head with Pocket pivot is a total game changer. I'll be honest, the first time I ever saw this was in an ad by Richard Karn from Home Improvement. And when you get it, it's so much better than what you've seen on tv. It's incredibly lightweight, it's durable, and honestly, it makes watering my plants and I have a lot of plants so much easier. And it comes with a 10 year warranty. For a limited time, my listeners can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copper hose. Just text watch to 64,000. Again, that's watch to 64,000. For two free gifts, watch to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details to understand how serious it can be. If a foreign intelligence service has actual access to your investigations. We can go back in time. And a great example of course is Robert Hanssen. He obviously worked at the FBI and he gave information to the Soviets and then of course the Russians when the government changed over. And one of the things he was giving to them is insights into FBI's investigations, the same type of thing this hack is doing. But of course a human was doing it. He was of course able to give the names of spies operating, how the FBI was doing collection, what the FBI was interested in, what the FBI was looking at, what where the FBI's gaps were. This really gave the Russians a huge leg up, besides of course, so many assets later being executed. But they were basically on the inside of the investigations and they could even manipulate the investigations because they had that type of insight and they had that type of access to now present day. If you can hack this backbone of the investigations and do this without a human, that makes it such an easier and less risky operation. And you can do a lot more at scale. Because even in that case with Robert Hanssen, he had access obviously to the Soviet account. But if I can hack and see what the FBI is not just doing on the Soviet account, but the Chinese account, the North Korean account, et cetera, and have that broad view and that broad access, there's so many insights I can pull and gain from that. Now this brings us to a bigger picture. It's like how this effort fits into the scope of Chinese intelligence operations. Obviously China has one of the largest collection platforms in the world and it's run of their Ministry of State Security. But it's done a lot different than like the CIA would do it. So the CIA would trust this kind of elite cadre of case officers who would focus on China and collect. China collects at scale. They can use diplomats, researchers, students, technology workers, business executives, and even visiting scholars. So all these individuals can collect small pieces of information. But when you pull that together, it's a massive amount of valuable information. This is China's national doctrine. It's called comprehensive national power. And what it is, is it's the fact and the concept that we're not just collecting information for espionage, that's great. We're also collecting information for economic competition, for technology acquisition, for political insights, and for different law enforcement awareness. It's a much grander picture than how US intelligence collection works. So cyber espionage is just a piece of this grand strategy. I think you can remember back to 2015 when China hacked the US government and they stole the entire Office of Personnel Management database that had 20 million investigation background documents in it. So, like, when I got hired by the government, they did a background check on me. So all that information is in there. So think of everything they have, right? My addresses, my phone numbers, where I went to school, where my parents live, where my siblings live. So it's a massive amount of data. But it wasn't just for data collection. A lot of analysts believe they took that information because they could see who has security clearances, and they were able to map out where American intelligence officers live. Do they live in certain communities? Where special operatives live? Do they live in certain communities? So it's very interesting that they used it to map us out. It wasn't just this giant collection of data to use one day in the future to cause this compromise and embarrass the government. They really did put it to use. So the goal is not just to steal information. It's to understand how the US Government does its operations and in particular, counterintelligence operations. Why does this matter right now? And there are three major implications that come out of this. First off, the most simply is we can now have compromised investigations. So we have the adversary potentially knowing this person in China and that person in China, or this visiting professor or this student on US Soil are being investigated. The targets can learn they're under scrutiny, they can destroy evidence, and they can just leave the United States and not even worry about being charged for their activities. Another thing is intelligence can adapt. They know what we're looking at. They're seeing now these investigative patterns and they can circumvent them. So, for example, they can use different communication channels. They can start reducing electronic communications. If they're seeing the FBI is relying heavily on phone monitoring or email monitoring, they can make a new rule that all meetings are happening in person. Al Qaeda is really famous for doing this. They're like, hey, meetings need to be in person. If a senior leader can't make it, he gets a written summary of what happened, etc. We're not going to talk about it on the phone. And when we do talk about stuff on the phone, it will be misinformation. So foreign governments can collect it and think they know what we're doing, but they don't know what we're doing because it's tailored misinformation to be collected. The third implication is that there is a long term counterintelligence advantage to this, because now China is basically studying our internal playbook they know exactly how we carry it out in an operation or the processes involved, how we do our magic. When they know that, they can then improve their capabilities to evade it. It's a very simple concept, but it does give them a leg up. Think about this. When you have a stolen document, okay, you understand now what needs to be replaced. But when you're in, entire architecture of your investigative system gets compromised. You can't quickly change it or update it. Especially this is a government process and a government system. So cyber breaches often make headlines when tons of data gets leaked. But I hope you see today that there are other breaches and intrusions and compromises that are more dangerous. But we never fully see them. And sometimes we don't even learn the consequences of them till 5, 10, 15 years down the road. Because once your adversary learns how you hunt them, they of course, design ways to become completely invisible. Sometimes the most important intelligence isn't the secrets themselves. It's the map showing how investigators found out about those secrets. Thanks for being here today on the watch for.