‘The Pitt’ S2E14, ‘The Boys’ S5, and ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ S2. Plus, ‘The Punisher: One Last Kill’ Trailer and ‘Top Chef’ S23E5.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Watch — April 10, 2026

Episode: ‘The Pitt’ S2E14, ‘The Boys’ S5, and ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ S2. Plus, ‘The Punisher: One Last Kill’ Trailer and ‘Top Chef’ S23E5
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Joel (aka Andy Greenwald)
Network: The Ringer
Date: April 10, 2026

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Theme & Purpose

This week, Chris and Joel reconvene after a whirlwind of TV watching and travel to break down the latest episodes of The Pitt (S2E14), The Boys (S5), Your Friends and Neighbors (S2), the new Punisher: One Last Kill trailer, and Top Chef (S23E5). They riff on industry rumors, superhero news, and TV storytelling challenges, all with their trademark mixture of deep analysis and self-deprecating banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Superhero News & "The Punisher: One Last Kill" Trailer

[03:48–13:50]

• Casting Rumors: Chris riffs on speculation around the Superman character Maxima, and James Gunn’s penchant for obscure comic lore.

  • Joel: "I have no f***ing idea who Maxima is... I’m on record as a Marvel guy." [04:08]
  • Lists actresses rumored and then dismissed by Gunn.
  • They note the weird overlap and contradictions in entertainment reporting.

• Punisher Trailer:

  • Chris discusses the new trailer, how Bernthal (co-writing with director Reinaldo Marcus Green) is doubling down on a grittier, auteur take on Frank Castle.
  • "Is this a heat check moment for your guy... Bernthal?" — Joel [10:30]
  • Bernthal’s versatility is praised, but both agree the character’s on-screen limitations may be showing.
  • Joel reflects that "the character, broad strokes, is pretty limited if not abhorrent" on screen, but that Bernthal elevates his material. [09:53]
  • Parallels drawn to actors becoming almost caricatures of their best selves ("Pacino gestures") over time.

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2. The Boys S5 and Franchise Burnout

[14:11–22:13]

• Joel did a deep dive, bingeing multiple ongoing series in Chris’s absence.
• The Boys:
  • The struggle of long-running genre shows: "It’s really hard to end things." [16:12]
  • Franchise feeling stretched thin: Gen V spin-off is described as “story spackle.”
  • The show is still praised for "unsentimental" large body counts and creative adaptation of its source.
  • "If you’ve been a fan, you’ll still be a fan." — Joel [18:17]
  • Standout moment: Antony Starr’s performance as Homelander continues to impress.
  • Chris is fatigued — “I feel like I’ve gotten it. I never really found The Boys bursting with dramatic tension.” [20:46]
  • Gonzo details (e.g., "manhood is a giant person-clubbing snake") highlight how far the show pushes boundaries.

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3. Your Friends and Neighbors Season 2

[22:13–32:43]

• Nightlight TV: Both discuss the show’s approach as a “nightlight” — a comfort show that doesn’t ask much of its audience.
  • Joel: “There is not even a shadow of an attempt to pretend anyone’s learned anything or anything’s changed.” [23:02]
  • Marsden’s addition is a highlight—"If you have the opportunity to cast James Marsden, it is so choice." [24:28]
• Soft Critique: The show gets dinged for “carrying itself quite heavily” while lacking real stakes, and not capitalizing on its supposed premise of upper-crust crime.
  • Chris: “If you’re going to put someone in a criminal situation... you have to kind of keep pushing somewhere new every iteration.” [28:29]
  • Joel: The show is more interested “in humanizing masters of the universe inside of their mansions and inside of their middle-aged malaise.” [29:47]
• Humor and Depth: Extended tangent on hip-hop violinists/cellists and water parks highlights their love for digressions and pop culture flotsam.

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4. The Pitt S2E14 — Deep Dive

[34:25–59:50]

• General Vibe: End-of-season slowdown — "the tide has gone out at the end, right when we expected things to be crescendoing." — Joel [44:19]
• Standout Scene: Robbie and Duke’s late-night conversation about suicidal ideation and burnout is praised:
  • "I thought this was a beautifully acted, beautifully written, beautifully executed scene." — Chris [39:53]
  • "It’s not the pit that’s bothering him. It’s everything else." [39:22]
  • Both Glenn Kober (Duke) and Noah Wyle (Robbie) are lauded; Joel notes the “low-key brilliance” of Wyle casting LA actors with real community ties.
• Character Cliffhangers:
  • Alhashimi’s big reveal (her lifelong health struggles) is described as a “tad TV” but well-acted and earning its place as a season cliffhanger. [49:33–51:53]
  • A debate about whether these character flips (like abrupt respect between rivals) feel earned.
  • Langdon’s apparent back-pain/addiction plot: “major relapse vibes” that feel a bit telegraphed.
  • The Whitaker badge subplot and Santos’s unexplored depth linger as seeds for the finale or next season.
• Writing & Tone:
  • Critique of some dialogue and pop culture “zingers” as “a little quippy” and at odds with the material.
  • Praise for the mix of meat-and-potatoes TV and prestige drama elements; “the beauty of the show is it’s so successful at binding these disparate threads.”
• Big Picture:
  • The show, unlike Season 1, appears poised to end on a more subdued, non-traumatic note.

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5. Top Chef S23E5

[60:08–70:17]

• Shocking Elimination: Chris bemoans putting all predictions on Rhoda, who exits after a messy run.
• Strategic Play: Discussion of Jen’s sitting out quickfires due to injury — is it “load management”? Should she be allowed to continue?
  • Chris: “I don't think she's gaining any kind of unfair advantage by skipping the quickfires.” [62:11]
  • Joel: “I have never seen anyone tap out twice and then show up steroided up for the [elimination].” [63:06]
  • Survivor and NBA parallels abound.
• Sidebars: Extended riff on water park hygiene (“lazy river of piss”) and a generational lament about childhood injury and risk.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I want to speak to the layperson when I say this: I have no f***ing idea [about Maxima]." — Joel, [04:08]
• “Is this a heat check moment for your guy? ...This is his Bradley Cooper’s Maestro.” — Joel on Bernthal’s Punisher [10:30]
• “It's really hard to end things. Because in the final stretch, every choice you make is almost a metatextual comment about the show.” — Joel on The Boys [16:12]
• “That’s not exactly how you prefer vigilante justice to be executed.” — Joel, to Chris on The Punisher [09:48]
• “The math isn’t mathing here, you know.” — Joel re: Friends & Neighbors’ criminal scheme [34:10]
• “If you have the opportunity to cast James Marsden, it is so choice.” — Joel [24:28]
• "I never really found The Boys to be, like, bursting with dramatic tension." — Chris, [20:46]
• "It's not the pit that's bothering him. It's everything else." — Chris, on Robbie in The Pitt [39:22]
• "There’s just a—I’m eager to talk about Euphoria. I am. But...I am interested in absolute unreality, phony baloney, if it has some aestheticism to it." — Joel [32:17]
• Comedy riff: “What about when we had a hip-hop butler? Remember that dude, Fonzworth Bentley?” — Joel [26:46]
• “At the end of last season, you have this mass shooting…at this season, it's more grinding for the characters than it is for the audience.” — Chris, comparing The Pitt’s two crises [47:49]
• “This is a nightlight. But it's not light and charming enough to be a nightlight.” — Joel on Friends and Neighbors [31:26]
• On Top Chef: "That was the best feeling I’ve ever had in my life, bar like three or four other things. But then everything else about water parks I think are pretty disgusting." — Chris [66:57]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Superhero Headlines/Maxima & Punisher: [03:48–13:50]
• The Boys S5: [14:11–22:13]
• Your Friends and Neighbors S2: [22:13–32:43]
• The Pitt S2E14 Deep Dive: [34:25–59:50]
  • Robbie & Duke’s Key Scene: [35:44–40:13]
  • Alhashimi’s Reveal: [49:30–51:53]
  • Langdon/Whitaker subplot: [53:36–57:32]
• Top Chef S23E5: [60:08–70:17]

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Overall Tone & Style

The hosts maintain a knowing, bantering tone—wry, self-aware, often critical but deeply affectionate toward television as an art form and pop culture as a whole. Digressions are as welcome as deep analysis; reverence for character actors, sports riffs, and guilty pleasures abound. The show balances critical insight with personal TV-watching philosophy, reflecting on how habits and expectations have shifted over decades of viewing.

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Useful For:

• Anyone wanting a smart, nuanced, and often funny recap of premium television and pop culture headlines.
• Fans of The Pitt seeking an especially granular and emotionally attuned breakdown of its late-second-season storytelling.
• Listeners interested in how long-running shows, spin-offs, and streaming strategies are changing the television landscape.

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Next Up:

• The season finale of The Pitt airs April 16th. Look for a recap and, possibly, a Noah Wyle interview in next week’s episode.
• Sunday night: Euphoria S3E1 instant reaction.

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“Thanks to Kai and Sarah, and we’ll be back on Sunday night…”

Transcript

[Chris Ryan]

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[Chris Ryan]

I need sports to have to clear the room.

[Joel]

Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, Joel and bead's appendix. Dr.

[Joel]

This is going to be such a good podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a different look for us. Usually I'm the one who's professional and I'm the one who's on top of it. And I've got the document. You come in and you're just like, I used to be a critic and now I'm on the other side of the table.

[Joel]

Wait, that was uncanny.

[Chris Ryan]

But I'm pretty tired, man. I just got off the plane from San Francisco, had a great show with Bill and Mal and Van and the whole Rewatchables crew there last night.

[Joel]

You mean. You mean also Craig and Craig? Craig was below the line then. You didn't get the name.

[Chris Ryan]

Craig was on stage last night. I know, but Craig was right next to me.

[Joel]

You're like the whole team.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sorry, do you want me to start over again.

[Joel]

Ever since. I don't know if you know, ever since I went on the rewatchables, and

[Chris Ryan]

I, you know, Van just spent, like, five minutes of ringer tailgate referring to me as Sean. So I think it's. Everybody's just trying to piece it all together. It's great to see you, though. You're my. You're my homing beacon.

[Joel]

I'm excited. There's a little grit in your tires today. Yeah. You know, you can hear it in the voice. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Couple of Mandelas. Couple of small beers.

[Joel]

Yeah, just a couple of small beers. The implication, though, that this is usually the reverse, that usually you're on point and buttoned up and I'm hungover.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, But I just think you're like, come what may, let's see what happens when the lights go on.

[Joel]

That is true. I do come from an improv background.

[Chris Ryan]

It's really good to see you, though, man. I was looking for stuff for us to talk about today. Aside from the Pit and Top Chef, which we will address. I'll give you a little bit of a programming update. Not you, but for our listeners. I'm always curious that we'll be hitting up Euphoria Season 3, Episode 1 on, I think, Sunday night. I think we'll just put that jam out on Sunday night.

[Joel]

Why not?

[Chris Ryan]

The great work of this podcast is that I never really know what Andy is going to think of a show, but I have a feeling we got a new convert in the church of Rue.

[Joel]

Well, I would. I can't say anything.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

I was going to say I was going to make a reference to something that happens in Euphoria 301, because this

[Chris Ryan]

is coming out Thursday.

[Joel]

I would just say that. That. That, you know, conversion of belief is relevant to that episode.

[Chris Ryan]

What to talk about. Well, first of all, I did want to bounce a couple of superhero headlines off of you.

[Joel]

Let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

Number one is, who is Maxima?

[Joel]

Thank you. First of all, thank you for your question. Um, I want to be as. Like, I. I want to speak to the layperson when I say this.

[Chris Ryan]

That's. That's great. This is a. A Superman character.

[Joel]

I have no fucking idea. Uh, I think I am on record as a Marvel guy, so a little bit cooler and so. But also, like, with James Gunn, and I respect. I. We all respect this about Big Jim Gunn one day.

[Chris Ryan]

Kai, if you're like, I have nothing to do for a week. Will you put together a montage of him making references to Marvel and just have Marvel guy and an arrow pointing at him. Sorry, I just, I saw that there were a bunch of well regarded actresses trying out for this role, auditioning for this role.

[Joel]

We. I don't know which list you saw because it was actually a little bit controversial yesterday.

[Chris Ryan]

Why?

[Joel]

You know, you were strolling the city by the bay, just trying to game out how Alcatraz is going to go from tourist attraction to full Nicholas Cage the prison in a matter of months.

[Chris Ryan]

I did keep saying like. Like would be like, oh, check that piece of skyline. I was like, is that Alcatraz?

[Joel]

You thought it was all Alcatraz? Possibly. To answer your question, I have no idea about minor Superman supporting characters. And even if I did, I think that James Gunn's knowledge of the C and D listers goes even deeper. And that's a credit to him because he makes these characters, like he did with Guardians of the Galaxy, important to millions of people around the world. From what I gather, this is an alien character who is a potential love interest for. For Superman wither.

[Chris Ryan]

Lois Lane, though.

[Joel]

Well, you know, there can be a super triangle. I believe that's possible. Or as I was just reading as the number one headline on Hollywood Reporter Nikki Glaser likes her boyfriend to date other women. And so maybe that's what Lois is like.

[Chris Ryan]

Is this a bit that she's doing, though? I feel like I actually am in an open relationship reader.

[Joel]

I didn't click it.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, kind of.

[Joel]

Did you read the article?

[Chris Ryan]

Why would she have read the article? You just discovered it.

[Joel]

She said she'd already seen it. Don't put this on me.

[Advertisement Voice]

Well, so this is. This is an aggregation from her appearance

[Chris Ryan]

on Call Her Daddy, I believe so. It made the rounds on Twitter yesterday. And you know, I also didn't care to actually click on the video and watch her. This is gold.

[Joel]

This is clip.

[Chris Ryan]

This is how they do it at the Free Press. Sounds good.

[Joel]

Publish. Anyway, no, there was some controversy yesterday because Deadline reported that a number of Marisa Abella actresses were auditioning, including industry's Marisa Abella. And James Gunn was just like, this is all untrue. I am a fan of these people, but that is not. Oh, these are not. These are not the droids I've been looking for.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the thing. We can always count on Jim to clap back and be like fake news. Now, did he say Maxim was not in it or just. I have not talked to these ladies.

[Joel]

He's never. First of all, this guy's never giving up on X. That's just. That's his Preferred communication strategy. No. Then, then. And this was in a Hollywood Reporter. And Hollywood Reporter was like, actually, we have the exclusive. Which by the way, every time we aggregate the trades, it is worth noting they are all owned by the same company. So it's very funny when they. They compete with each other in this way that apparently the actual final list for the role of Maxima, someone I am unfamiliar with.

[Chris Ryan]

If you're unfamiliar, imagine how I feel.

[Joel]

Andrea Arjona, Ava de Domenici, Sydney Chandler and Grace Van Patten. The latter of two of whom have starred on television shows recently that we talked about.

[Chris Ryan]

Personal fave. She was great. And Tell Me Lies.

[Joel]

So that's the list. Who do you want to be your alien warrior queen? Who you got?

[Chris Ryan]

Be curious to see Marisa in it.

[Joel]

Yeah, but she's not. She's not in the mix.

[Chris Ryan]

But like, that's just one trade's opinion, you know?

[Joel]

Okay. Oh, we're going off book today. All right.

[Chris Ryan]

This is one trade's opinion.

[Joel]

Who do you want to be cast as Maximo?

[Chris Ryan]

Is that guy in Marvel? Marvel? Is there a Maximo in Marvel?

[Joel]

I'm just having fun now.

[Chris Ryan]

Probably another thing that happened in the world of superhero headlines.

[Joel]

What's incredible is we should lead with this. You were in San Francisco with the crew. I watched like seven hours of television.

[Chris Ryan]

I got it.

[Joel]

Starting with casting rumors for characters we don't even know about.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm trying to contribute. I can't really. When you weighed in on, you know, when you weigh in on these TV shows, I'm just gonna kick back and watch.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my show for the week. Is watching you cook.

[Joel]

That's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

On Friends and Neighbor. The only other thing I was gonna bring up is the Punisher One last kill. Special presentation trailer dropped today. This is from really is from Jon Bernthal because he co wrote it with Ronaldo Marcus Green. Ronaldo Marcus Green, his frequent collaborator, worked on We Own this City with him, is directing this, I guess in the spirit of the Werewolf at night. Is that what that one's called?

[Joel]

Werewolf by Night?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Werewolf by Night. This is kind of like a one off. Although Punisher, obviously a long running character from Marvel and the mcu. The new Spider man movie and the new Spider Man. I don't know if the two. The two knew about each other here because this seems like a very gritty, profane version of Frank Castle. Whereas the Spider man one seems to be closer to like a little quippy. Yeah, a little. A little bit more.

[Joel]

They.

[Chris Ryan]

They got some. Some Tony Stark in my, in my Punisher.

[Joel]

Well, we contain multitudes, sure.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, this seems bleak, violent, interesting. Here's the problem with me and Punisher, okay? Every single time I'm like, I'm back. And every single time, I don't really find. Maybe it's like the character itself has sort of missed its window of relevance. What do you think? I mean, like. But every time I see the Punisher on screen, I'm like, that's not exactly how.

[Joel]

How you prefer vigilante justice to be executed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Joel]

You have your own. We all have our own way. Yeah, I mean, you're right about that. Big picture. I think the character, Broad Strokes is pretty limited, if not abhorrent. There have been some really, really good comic book runs with the character, but I think generally on screen it's pretty limited unless he's being used as a foil to characters that are frankly more interesting. Like the way that Marvel has used this version of him recently in relation to Daredevil or potentially in relation to Spider Man. Let me put it to you this way, because we're gonna watch this. This is a one off, one hour. Potentially Bernthal going full auteur mode.

[Chris Ryan]

Looks like he's just in the raid.

[Joel]

This is his. Bradley Cooper's Maestro, I believe. Is this a heat check moment for your guy? And the reason I ask this is because, listen, no one loves Jon Bernthal more, maybe more than you generally. We really like his performances. We like it when he shows up at things. He lifts up everything he's a part of.

[Chris Ryan]

It's true.

[Joel]

Currently he is on Broadway with another, I would say friend of the pod, kind of Eben, Moss Bacharach. They are in a adaptation of Dog Day Afternoon which has been savaged by critics. And in the.

[Chris Ryan]

I think, I think some critics have seen some good things in it.

[Joel]

This is the same critics that cast Marisa Abella as Maxima. So this is just your news. That's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

The reviews that I read, I'll be the judge. I'll go see it and I'll let you know how you're going to do your own research. Yeah, I'll let you know.

[Joel]

The reviews that I, I saw definitely came close. Tip tiptoeing up to the edge of saying Bernthal at this point was doing Bernthal schtick. And I wonder then that coupled with him being like, I shall write myself a Hamlet using Frank Castle and Hell's Kitchen is my Denmark. Might be it, might be a. Might be a prove it moment. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's my zag on that. Okay, this is the reverse Paltrow. This is great. Gwyneth Paltrow. Plenty of people in the MCU have been like, am I in that? When do I have to go to Atlanta? What are we reshooting now?

[Joel]

Not Atlanta anymore, son.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, whatever. Where are they shooting it now?

[Joel]

London.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, cool.

[Joel]

Do you know that I've been there recently? That's how I knew which camera. That's how I knew. Go on. I just blew up your whole spot. Reverse Paltrow.

[Chris Ryan]

It's just cool that he has, like, a crude, he's like, I'll keep playing Punisher.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But one day me and Ronaldo are making like, a True Vengeance thriller. Dark, like. And then I'll show up and I'll, I'll make jokes with Tom Holland, but it's about, like, basically, like, taking all the chips and pushing them in the middle and actually, like, caring about what, what happens to the character that you're playing now. I mean, this could be completely over the top and ridiculous. Bernthal might be just. Whether or not you rock with him or not, it might just be that, like, it's the kind of like what happened with Pacino at a certain point where he just gets sort of pigeonholed into a couple of gestures that he

[Joel]

has as an actor and asked to do those.

[Chris Ryan]

And, and maybe that's what he, he's relying on. But I, I, I still find him really creative and charming and surprising in almost everything he says.

[Joel]

He's electric every time he shows up.

[Chris Ryan]

And I will say, obviously, this kind of role and this, this part and being like a tortured vigilante is kind of his bag right now. Like, he likes playing this part even.

[Joel]

I have to say, as the self professed Marvel guy, that, like, I am a fan of this type of comic book storytelling in which you can have a Punisher, a version of a Punisher that shows up in a Spider man comic book, for example, or Spider man movie. But then Marvel will also publish something under its, like, max designation, which is basically like a R rated comic or a PG13 comic where Punisher does the things that actually a character named the Punisher who carries all this, he drops

[Chris Ryan]

F bombs and stuff.

[Joel]

Yeah. So you can have both can exist. You know, it's like you on this pod versus you on, you know, I

[Chris Ryan]

have a new world under Josh d'. Amoro.

[Joel]

Yeah, Josh. Well, or, or is Josh d' Amoro tacitly supporting Vigilante justice, his first release under his regime Is Iger out by

[Chris Ryan]

the time this comes out?

[Joel]

No, he's out already.

[Chris Ryan]

He's fully out.

[Joel]

He was out when they announced it. He was clearing out his palatial office. And he didn't take an office down the hall that was slightly bigger like he did with Chapek.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so while I was away.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You relentlessly pursued.

[Joel]

Great. My. Great. My. My true passion.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Which is watching television.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to hear all about it. So you. You. There's a couple of things on right now that I think you are either pot committed to as a longtime watcher, a little bit more curious about where it went from where it was like Friends and Neighbors. Was there anything else that you checked out besides Boys and Friends and Neighbors?

[Joel]

No, I just. Well, I mean, no, but in the day you were gone, I was Top Chef. Euphoria. The Boys and your Friends and Neighbors.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, you're an animal. Like, please, please run free leash off this dog park is. Is just for you.

[Joel]

It was. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

How much time do we have left?

[Chris Ryan]

It's hard, isn't it?

[Joel]

It's really hard.

[Chris Ryan]

It's hard hosting.

[Joel]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I feel like we may revisit some of these shows or maybe we'll do a more extended. Or I'll do a little extended off Broadway one man show about some of them I found. I guess I'll say this about my experience. So the Boys has two episodes up. Your Friends and Neighbors has one episode up. And I will not.

[Chris Ryan]

The last time I was watching the Boys was the Soldier Boy. What's that character's name?

[Joel]

Soldier Boy. The rapper.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the act? The character on Soldier Boy, but it's spelled differently. It's not Soldier Boy, is it?

[Joel]

Yes, it is. It is. But it doesn't have a J.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

You know what I mean? It's spelled soldier, right? Yeah. And that character and actor will be Jensen Ackles. Jensen Ackles will be reprising that role on the upcoming Boys prequel series, also starring our friend Aya Cash. And he's back. But that was so. I think you've missed season four.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

No spoilers for this portion. Just to say that I did find this exercise interesting in the conversation that we are having and that we will be having on Sunday night about ongoing television shows, because as we've been saying and as we will prove on our Sunday night show, I have engaged with Euphoria. Completely cold, having seen nothing and Googling nothing. And boy, was it freeing. And to do that at the Same time, while I'm watching these shows, one in its second season, one in its fifth and final season, and seeing the ways that shows these days with the production demands in terms of delays between seasons or lack thereof, in the case of your friends and neighbors, expectations of the audience, et cetera, how they engage with what used to just be making tv, I will say that the thing about the Boys is that it is very, very, very hard to. This is also. This was also the text of the Stick to Landing podcast. It's really hard to end things, sure. Because in the final stretch, every choice you make and everything you do is almost a metatextual comment about the show that you've been making and how you want it to be, as opposed to ongoing concerns where things could change, there's a sense of possibility, a sense of creativity, a sense of limitless stakes.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's also. The Boys is now a full on television franchise and has multiple spinoffs.

[Joel]

But does it. That's the other thing. Like it felt quite expansive for a moment and then it did have its Gen V spinoff that I sort of dropped out of after one season. And from what I understand, I don't know if they plan to continue it, but it seems like the second season of that show really functioned as story spackle between the seasons of the Boys.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Joel]

But yeah, making it essential or actually cause to the spirit of my euphoria point kind of inessential. Because they talk about what happened in season two of Gen V in passing in terms of like now we have the virus. Not like they have the virus, they're all doing quite well. But like they have it in a little vial, you know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

Right. First three episodes went up.

[Joel]

First two episodes which was they had been doing three and now I'm like, why would they give that much away? Like at least extended a little bit. I would say that if you have been a fan of the Boys previously, you will still be a fan of the Boys because it is still essentially the same show. And it is clever and it is often at its most clever. I think when it runs right towards, runs right past being like we are a veiled analogy for what's going on in America. And it's just like, fuck it, this is what we're doing. Such as the signs that say in this house we believe in Homelander on people's lawns. And there's some teen characters in the second episode act like as they are detaining people who support Starlight, they are also doing viral TikTok content promoting energy drinks while they escort mothers away from their children, which feels prescient. So all that stuff's good. And I think Antony Starr is continuing to do like that guy. I'm not a really big fan of, like, give this person an Emmy now, but this guy's really good and has been really good in a very thankless part.

[Chris Ryan]

Is there roadmap like the Garth Ennis comic? Does that have, like a point? They've blown past it.

[Joel]

I think that. I think that it could be looked back on as a really creative and timely and also just very practical adaptation in a lot of ways. When the show premiered, I think people who are fans of the comic, which Garth Ennis also famous for writing probably the best Punisher stories, it is just depraved and so, so, so cynical. And, you know, they made changes in the beginning that some people were complaining about but were necessary for the longer run of the show. Like the Huey character who's played still quite winningly by Jack Quaid. By Jack Quaid in the comics, kind of looks like a slightly smaller, sadder pre hair plug Simon Pegg. And not at all like the potential romantic lead of a five season Amazon prime show. And as a nod to that, Simon Pegg played Hughie's father in the show. But you needed that character to be this character to have some story instead of just carnage. And now we're reaching the endgame when it's pretty much just gonna be carnage. But also all the characters are like, moncour, I cannot sacrifice you to sacrifice.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that Iris is still kicking, huh? Yeah, the French dude.

[Joel]

And there's other stuff. You see that, like in long runs where his mind. He's not. He's not. He's not a soup.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Joel]

He's just like a drug cook who also can cook up some virus. Am I selling you on the show?

[Chris Ryan]

I've watched three seasons of it. I think I was just like, I feel like I've gotten it. I don't really find. I never really found the boys to be like, bursting with dramatic tension. And so I guess that's why I was like, I feel like maybe after 30 hours or whatever, that's enough.

[Joel]

Yeah. But I know that because you've watched the first three seasons that you're familiar with a character whose superpower is that his manhood is a giant person clubbing snake.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Joel]

Well, if you ever want to know how that guy's story ends, tune in.

[Chris Ryan]

I saw the first episode of DTF St. Louis.

[Joel]

I know Fair enough. And there's just other little details where it's like you could tell that Karen Fukuhara was like, I'm excited to come back for my final season on this hit show, but could I please stop being a deaf mute?

[Chris Ryan]

And so then did they give her a musical scene?

[Joel]

They actually had a musical scene last season. But no, now she just speaks flawless American English, claiming that she just had some therapy and watched a lot of TikTok in the off season. So now she just curses a lot like everybody else, which is fun for her, I would imagine. But yes, in terms of like, the reason you watch though, with a show like that, and the reason why I will continue to watch is because I've liked the way they built the story. I like a lot of the performers. And yeah, you kind of have to see how it ends because they are. The one thing about the show, not one thing, but one thing you, you do have to give it credit for, is that it is relatively unsentimental. And so there will be a high body count and some sort of definitive ending.

[Chris Ryan]

So that's the show that is coming to a conclusion. The show that seems like it is perhaps getting Ready for a 4, 5 season run is your Friends and neighbors, which I think we covered relatively in depth last year.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And faded along the back stretch of the first season, perhaps. For me, and this is a factor with a lot of TV shows is as the character palette expanded and it went to ABC and D plots the way I feel like a lot of long running apple shows sometimes do and the way many television shows sometimes do, I found myself just like less urgently watching it. And then they bring on James Marsden for the second season. I haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet, but do you feel like they are setting this one up for three, four seasons of Jon Hamm looking great and some of cool cars?

[Joel]

What's remarkable about the show, and I kind of respect this, is that there is not even a shadow of an attempt to pretend that it's going to. Anyone's learned anything or anything's changed.

[Chris Ryan]

And they brought Munn back, right?

[Joel]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Even though she murdered her husband.

[Joel]

Well, no, she. Spoiler. She didn't.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Joel]

But she did then try to. He wasn't. He died by suicide.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. But then she tried to frame Koop because he broke up with her.

[Joel]

Happens.

[Chris Ryan]

That's Nikki Glaser.

[Joel]

I'm gonna click now. I give the show credit for being absolutely clear eyed about like, we're just gonna hit a reset button and do it again shows, lesser shows, and frankly, better shows, have tied themselves in remarkable knots trying to get themselves back to some starting point or to wrestle with the really challenging corners that they've painted themselves into. The show does none of that in the opening moments. Coop, looking amazing, is on a beautiful vacation in Mexico, and he's drinking whiskey and women are flirting with him again. So thank God for that. I think within that comment is also my ongoing criticism of the show. And, oh, I should say, if you have. What is, you know, in Ferris Bueller when he's, like, talking about the car and he's like, if you have the opportunity to drive it, you really should. That's how I feel about casting James Marsden at this point. Like, if you have the opportunity, it is so choice.

[Chris Ryan]

Get Wildcat on your cast.

[Joel]

Yeah, he livens up every second of the show that he is in. And this is just through one episode that's been up. Playing the part of an incredibly rich, incredibly charming guy who maybe has some secrets, but who cares, because he throws good parties, is not, I would say, a challenge or outside of his wheelhouse, he's phenomenal. This show is also the kind of show where you introduce him and he says, like, my name's Owen Ash, but everyone calls me Ash. And he's like, Andrew Cooper, but everyone calls me Coop. And they're like, let's touch tips, basically. You know what I mean? It's like, that's the level that we're dealing with.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's a sword fight, too. Cause isn't he the adversary? Kind of.

[Joel]

Not yet, but probably, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

The.

[Joel]

I say this with affection and respect because there are a lot of people involved in this show that I like and respect and care about a lot. Like, Jonathan Tropper's a really nice guy when I've interviewed him. My good friend Zach Galler is doing beautiful work as the DP on the show. Amanda Pete is on this show, and she's really good. The way that you were describing DTF St. Louis, which I thought was also very considerate and delicate, where you were like, perhaps this is.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's a me problem that

[Joel]

ultimately may be how I feel about this show. Because fundamentally, like, it's not just that I bump on the show's aesthetic choices. Like, I think that the needle drops and the.

[Chris Ryan]

They're still doing narration.

[Joel]

The narration. And also the. Like, just the way, like, the people on the show have no taste, but there doesn't seem to be any opinion about that. I said that last year as well. Like, what's his name? Marston throws a party in his giant mansion that features like a gyrating woman playing electric violin and a dj and all the rich people are like, this electric violin is amazing. But I'm like, does anyone have an opinion about how stupid this looks or about how they look?

[Chris Ryan]

Can I just ask you a quick question?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Who is the hip hop cellist? Miri Ben Ari.

[Joel]

She wasn't a cellist. She was the violinist.

[Chris Ryan]

Violinist. Hip hop violinist.

[Joel]

She was all over. College dropout.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah. I mean, I would have actually, I'm curious her thoughts about Kanye these days. Judging by her name, you know what I mean? I feel like she's probably got some thoughts.

[Chris Ryan]

I was just thinking about. That was really funny.

[Joel]

The hip hop violinist.

[Chris Ryan]

We just had a hip hop violinist and we were like, this really takes things to the next level.

[Joel]

What about when we had a hip hop butler? Remember that dude, Fonzworth Bentley?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

He's like, I'm a butler with an umbrella. And we're like, that's sick.

[Chris Ryan]

That's so cool. I honestly can say, as somebody who was in the shit back then. Yeah, you were. I never had an opinion on farts with.

[Joel]

You don't have an opinion.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I was like, this is. This is a. A no go zone for me. Like, I'm just, I'm more focused.

[Joel]

Sorry. I'm racking these G Unit mixtapes right now.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I saw an Instagram video of a dude just getting excited at the 50 cent intro for. For his. For Get Rich and trying, and he's just like,

[Joel]

that was you back in the day.

[Chris Ryan]

This is better than your Friends and Neighbors, honestly.

[Joel]

Yes, it is. It's just the. There's a moment, you know, the show just has. It is a absolutely slippery, well put together. You can't get any purchase or grip around it because the characters don't really have any depth in terms of, like, what they're fighting for. The stakes of the first season was how is Coop going to afford to maintain his lifestyle? And so his elder daughter, who is a legacy applicant, will get into Princeton and is also being recruited for tennis. And that is less interesting to me. And this idea that he's robbing his friends and neighbors, first of all, seems would be diminishing returns because how many friends and neighbors does he have to keep up his multimillion dollar lifestyle?

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[Chris Ryan]

But he's got his friend, the maid who's hooking him up with the intel, that stuff.

[Joel]

Sure. But at a certain point, I believe one of These friends and or neighbors would be like, this spate of robberies has me spooked. I shall put in a state of the art security system look, which to date has not happened.

[Chris Ryan]

I think my major issue with it was always that if you're going to put somebody in a criminal situation and are not going to play it for straight laughs, like you're not going to make like a comic satire of this world and you're going to have him being hunted down by gangsters and getting into trouble with his pawn broker and getting pulled into all these different scenarios where there's blood spilled. I think you have to kind of keep pushing to somewhere new every iteration. I agree with this. Look, not everything can be or should be Breaking Bad. But what Breaking Bad did was take a very basic idea not dissimilar from the one that your friends and neighbors is dealing with, which is a guy who's fallen on hard times in terms to criminality to support his lifestyle, but also mostly to support his family. And every season, every episode, every decision that Walt made was related back to this cascading series of decisions. To your point about Coop being basically at 0 starting season two exactly where he started season one, which is quite comfortable, which is quite comfortable and all the characters kind of like for some reason we all live around one another still. It just becomes like this now has kind of moved into Night Light territory. And the. I have other nightlights, but some I know people who love this show really like this.

[Joel]

I think that's very, very well said. I think that there is, I think there's a lot of. There actually is a lot of. There are a lot of interesting stories to be told about the current economy that aren't all necessarily from the perspective of the maids, which would be a more interesting show. But you could talk about. And the show has given lip service to this idea of trying to keep up with the Joneses or whatever. But ultimately the show doesn't seem to be that interested in that. It seems to be interested in humanizing masters of the Universe inside of their mansions and inside of their middle aged malaise, which actually from the outside and I speak and by the way, I'm saying this with a body riddled with middle aged malaise. I don't think it's as compelling perhaps as the people making the show believe it to be. And I think ultimately that's a bummer. And so there's a scene when all the fellows in the neighborhood are talking about their rotator cuff injuries in the sauna and about the new guys moving in with all his money, and then they make a joke about making America great again. And they're like, oh, no politics in the hot. In the sauna, boys. And at that moment, I wish the sinkhole from Dark Knight Rises would just open beneath a sinkhole. Westchester.

[Chris Ryan]

That was Bane. That was Bane blowing up Three River Stadium.

[Joel]

But he created a sinkhole with his explosions.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, there's.

[Joel]

A sinkhole's a natural phenomenon.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

In terms of all of these people dying, it could be a sinkhole.

[Chris Ryan]

It would be funny if Bane was like, I just happen to know that there will be a sinkhole right here under this football stadium.

[Joel]

That's actually kind of amazing. If Bane just, like, read the weather reports and understood geology. Geology. So deeply. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Two thumbs down.

[Joel]

I mean, I think you always keep your nose clean. Like, I think what you said makes more sense. That ultimately this is a nightlight. And I think that my frustration with it is that it's not. For me, it is not light and charming enough to be a nightlight because it carries itself quite heavily and the characters do things. Like, in this episode, Coop's daughter has her interview in another mansion for Princeton because she's still not in. And the guy's like, what do you think about this? And she's just like, I don't think you really care what I think, because, you know, your generation created this as a legacy project to reward itself so that people like me will get to do the same thing on the backs of all of the. Like, unlike the immigrants and Jews and these people who aren't accepted by your institutions. But also tennis. And he's like, whoa. And then we move on to a different scene.

[Chris Ryan]

It's much more entertaining.

[Joel]

I just. There's. There's just a. I'm eager to talk about euphoria. I am. But the only thing that I'll say is that I am here. I'm interested in absolute unreality, phony baloney if it has some aestheticism to it. And that was my struggle. And perhaps that's why it paled in comparison. I didn't mean to talk this long about the show. About. This is the second season of which I've seen one episode of.

[Chris Ryan]

It's okay. I think we're talking more about TV watching habits and what we go to television for. And there are times where I'm like, you know what? I really just want to be watching season five that we're on of Abbott. And I still think I've done every episode of Abbott. Like, I have, I have time for that.

[Joel]

That's big in my house.

[Chris Ryan]

The girls, yeah, love Abbott, but the one hour dramedy where nothing really ever is of consequence is kind of like, I'm pretty allergic to it at this point, you know?

[Joel]

Yeah. And I am also finding that the show's vision of robbery, it's not like I'm some like. I mean, I have seen the film Thief, but other than that I don't really know. I wouldn't claim any expertise. But in this episode there's an attempt to bring Hoon Lee's character, he's an actor I really love who plays Barney, his like financial, whatever, financial advisor, into the criminal conspiracy. And in order to do that, you need to lay some track about why he would. And so within this episode we meet his disapproving father in law who thinks that he's not, you know, making enough money. Making enough money and whatever. And so he has a kind of similar to Coop, like a fuck it, like let's, let's do it the bad way. But I'm like, now I'm crunching the numbers and now you're splitting the income three ways. And at the end of season one, Coop turned down, as explained in this episode, a potential eight figure annual salary

[Chris Ryan]

to go back to the office.

[Joel]

Right, to go back to the office and instead to just rob. And I'm like, look, no one will ever accuse me of being in a quant, but I just feel like the math isn't mathing here, you know,

[Chris Ryan]

let's talk a little bit about adjusting, dude. Spines blind.

[Joel]

Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's talk about the Pit, the penultimate episode written by Noah Wiley and directed by UTA Breischwitz.

[Joel]

Was this a Noah written episode?

[Chris Ryan]

It was. And it was 8pm we're still fucking here. We're still, we haven't punched out yet. People are digitizing their charts. It's weird that these last few episodes to me, and especially this one, I struggle to remember patience now because the character drama in this, the way that they have set up the end of the season of like, yes.

[Joel]

The character stuff's coming to you still doing here. Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's what everybody is asking them. Everybody is telling these doctors, you can go now, you can go now, you can go now. And they're still hanging out and they're still bantering and they're still talking about what this day has done to them. And we had two base basically major reveals. Robbie explicitly talking about his suicidal ideation to Duke. This was what the Pit does incredibly Well, I want to remember the name of the actor who plays Duke, because it's somebody who I've seen a million times and a million things. Jeff Kober. Jeff Kober. And this is what this show does incredibly well. He has been sitting on a hospital bed for nine hours, and he has basically had the dramatic beat of, Robbie, don't forget about me. Here I am on this gurney.

[Joel]

Well, he had the nurse. Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

That was fun, too. And he's, like, gotten this tough news about his heart problem. Right.

[Joel]

It appears that he has the same aneurysm on the aorta that the professor who thought he had kidney stones who died and upset Ogilvy. The Ogilvy plot line, it is a

[Chris Ryan]

where they were just like, we're just gonna give you. This is a simple fix.

[Joel]

But because he didn't see the MRI or the CAT scan or whatever it was, that's a ticking time bomb that can be seen and can be remedied.

[Chris Ryan]

But this guy's been basically relegated to background player for this season, and he gets one of the emotional payoffs of the season in this conversation with Robbie out in the ambulance bay, Robbie's bike has been hit. Very metaphorical.

[Joel]

Yeah, for real.

[Chris Ryan]

And he is perhaps not going to be able to go on his trip. It turns out Duke's able to, like, make it get it into good shape enough. Good enough shape to ride. But he's like, hey, man, why don't you just let me take the bike back to my garage, and in a couple of days, I'll have it up and running. And Robby is like, I have to go.

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[Joel]

They're calling this a battle for the fans.

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I have to go. I have to go. The revelation of this scene. I think everybody who's been watching the show knows how Robbie has been doing or feeling. And it's not altogether different than how he was feeling at the end of the first season up on the roof with Abbott. But the revelation is that it's not the pit that's bothering him.

[Joel]

It's everything else.

[Chris Ryan]

It's everything outside of the Ed and that it is a guy who, even though we get a little glimpse of his love life this season and a little bit of glimpse of his social life this season, it's all attached to the emergency department. It's all attached to that hospital.

[Joel]

And I just realized they call it ED so much because they don't want to give the estate of Michael Crichton anything.

[Chris Ryan]

And every single time I'm like, I'm not talking about erectile dysfunction, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to honor their wishes by calling it the midlife Malaise

[Joel]

Comes for all shows.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And I thought this was a beautifully acted, beautifully written, beautifully executed scene. That could have been way more like storming around and crying and him just being like, I don't know if I want to be here anymore, like be anywhere anymore was just really effective.

[Joel]

I'd note that Jeff Kober is an actor who's been, who's been acting for decades and has credits like from the 80s. He also is a. This is from his Instagram bio, Embracing Bliss. Author and podcaster, actor, meditation teacher, tintype photographer.

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if like he's, he's got, I'm just asking, I wonder if he has a relationship with Noah.

[Joel]

This is what I mean. I think that one of the low key, some of the. It's a low key, brilliant part of the Pit, which is that Noah has been. He's a native Angeleno and he's been acting for so long, he has a community of people here that he wants to raise up, put on whatever. And when you hear him talk about Sean Hattasy and their relationship, it's like we've always gotten along because we've known each other forever and we, you know, we at auditions or just being here and we've in passing, we have a sibling like relationship. So you put him on the show. It's just instant, instant. And I don't know if he knows this guy prior to the show, but that sense of like this is someone who will bring the right energy, who will be able to just be present in limited screen time up until that moment with that depth of Zen or calm or self reflection that is needed. It's a subtle way to seed story on a show that doesn't have a lot of real estate for long scenes of dialogue or long speeches. Normally I'm totally with you on the triumph of that scene and that will be and should be Noah's Emmy real before he wins an Emmy again later

[Chris Ryan]

instead of him going doctor the fuck up.

[Joel]

Although I kind of like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

It reminded me of what you said to me last week about watching the terror. So I felt a little bit seen. I thought this episode was a really interesting case study in the best of the Pit. This scene and the entire slow moving catastrophe of the patient with the spinal injury, that's my kind of medicine. Outrageous.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

This episode was also the worst of the Pit in ways that took me out.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, I bet I can guess what this is.

[Joel]

Let's get into it. I mean, this is also why I love having this show in my life because we can granularly critique, point out highlight.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the thing. I know you're talking about Al Hashimi's reveal.

[Joel]

I'm not. Oh, I'm not.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

Not even. I'm not even.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, come on now.

[Joel]

Was that from the Punisher trailer? I'm not familiar with the reference.

[Chris Ryan]

Good. No, because that. I was going to fight you on that.

[Joel]

No, I thought that was fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joel]

I felt. Well, there were a couple minor things. One was when the tide goes out on the show in terms of momentum or a crush of patience or whatever, and we have some character beats, sometimes really good things come from it. Like the three residents sitting around the paper shredder, all great. The other thing that sometimes comes up, and maybe this is what Noah wanted, and Noah's the ep. So that stayed in. There was a lot of dated pop culture references in the script, and it was a little quippy. So there was the, like, okay, guy playing Clue, you know, who doesn't have a clue, you know, and then there was the, like, oh, rumble Fish. Totally. Let's make a rumble fish reference.

[Chris Ryan]

Is Rumblefish set in Pittsburgh? No. Or is it set in Tulsa because

[Joel]

it's Essie Hinton, I would imagine so. We can't keep forgiving things because they're said in Pittsburgh. Like, early in the season, I was like this schmaltzy ballad. And then we get all this feedback being like, that was actually written by a Pittsburgh native singer, songwriter, who's incredibly important and also puts French fries in sandwiches. And I'm like, okay, sounds good. I love Pittsburgh. I feel like, hey, hey, guys. Big fan of Pittsburgh over here legitimately.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Great town. Great ballpark. There was the zinger about the. About, like, Passion Play and stuff. It just felt labored in the same way that the dialogue can feel labored when they do the turn to camera. Actually, this is what happens when many women are misdiagnosed with.

[Chris Ryan]

We have a 50% chance of 80% of saving your life, but if we don't do it, it's 2030 that you're going to not be able to walk again.

[Joel]

And then he turned to the women. The women were like, I, too, believe in living. And I was like, okay, but that's also. That's the show. But I did feel the big picture comment. Is that what you said at the beginning, that it is really interesting the way the show has done the opposite of what we expected, which is the tide has gone out at the end, right when we were expecting things to be crescendoing and what's left for us to pick through, like shells on the beach, or what do you call the beach of the three rivers as they come together.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I don't know.

[Joel]

I don't know either.

[Chris Ryan]

A tributary?

[Joel]

Sure. Probably not. You know who we need? Geologist Bain.

[Chris Ryan]

If you would like to dig deeper into Pittsburgh. Up. If you consider Gotham Pittsburgh. I, I.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Canonically, I understand that it's not. It's not supposed to be considered Pittsburgh, but to me, it is. It is something of a Pittsburgh stand in.

[Joel]

Listen, I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

That's Heinz Ward out there.

[Joel]

This probably isn't for this podcast. That's Heinz Ward out there.

[Chris Ryan]

It is Heinz Ward.

[Joel]

I know. He's running.

[Chris Ryan]

He finishes the play.

[Joel]

It's blown up. And then he turns around, right? And he's like, oh.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, no.

[Joel]

Oh, no, Ben Roethlisberger.

[Chris Ryan]

Not you.

[Joel]

Jerome the bus.

[Chris Ryan]

Ben can dig anyone, but not Big Ben.

[Joel]

Canonically, Christopher Nolan's Gotham goes from Chicago to Pittsburgh in the span of two movies.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Joel]

Not just where he filmed it, but, like, just the vibes.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's. I mean, this is also your MCU hopping from Atlanta to London now.

[Joel]

Oh, did you know that?

[Chris Ryan]

Get back to what you were saying, though.

[Joel]

What is left is a surprising amount of room for banter, some of which is successful, some of which isn't for characters to reflect on what's happened or what hasn't happened in their lives, in their day, in their career. And that is interesting to watch. There's been some discourse this week about people saying the Pit isn't this, or the Pit is this, or you guys are watching it wrong because you straw audience members think it's a prestige drama, when in fact it's not. It just nods towards some prestige elements in order to just, you know, do its meat and potatoes kind of storytelling. And I think the beauty of the show is that it is so successful at binding these two very disparate threads of storytelling. And sometimes it succeeds in surprising ways and places. The Duke scene is the type of scene that, you know, I don't know if I would have expected this show would have had time for, if not an a coda to the season, you know, maybe in the park afterwards or something. But they carved out space for it, and it hit some of the other stuff. Less so. Okay, but which isn't to dismiss all the character stuff, because I was referring to, like, the Duke Perla scene, like, these little moments. Awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Monica leaving for her life of mahjong and margaritas. Godspeed.

[Chris Ryan]

Very fun. I mean, I enjoyed the Mel McKay, like, ren faire bit where she's like, maybe I Should get really into Revolutionary War reenacting shit. They're like, you should check that out.

[Joel]

I also think that just generally the night shift being saltier and just not being as, like, teach first.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

What was the line? Like, what did they say to one of the patients? Shut your fucking mouth. I believe was the medical diagnosis for the guy with a flag in his lung.

[Chris Ryan]

Cool.

[Joel]

Different energy.

[Chris Ryan]

At the end of last season, you have this mass shooting. You have this insane casualty event, and it renders all of these characters shells of themselves. Robbie's up on the roof looking out, and I think as audience members, we, too, are up on that roof with him after that first season. In this season, while the cyber attack or the shutdown in response to the cyber attack is complicated, it winds up probably costing a life in the English teacher because of the lack of scans. It's ultimately, like, probably more grinding for the characters than it is for the audience. Like, I kind of forgot a couple of times that they were doing the filing system, you know, that they were doing, like, semaphore to communicate what they were doing out there. And so I think that may be the root of what you're reacting to, like, is that there is. This is now pure character being written rather than reacting to action.

[Joel]

Yes. And the show is revealing itself as it necessarily had to. It's not a event series about one of the worst days in the history.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not the picture of the 911. Yeah, it's not.

[Joel]

It is an ongoing television show paradise. And even in his interviews, because I think he's getting a walk star in the Hollywood Walk of Fame. So Noah's doing some press. He was saying that he would imagine, which means he knows, because they're just about done writing season three, that they are probably just going to jump to winter just a couple months and not do a massive time jump. So we will be. Which probably serves them so they can continue some storylines in a more natural way. That's fine. I want to talk Langdon and I want to talk Alhashimi. What do you want to do first?

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do Alashimi.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

This has probably been one of the more hotly debated characters and certainly new additions to the show. The way in which she reveals herself to Robbie at the end of the episode was probably a tad tv. You know, it was like. Rather than just be like, I need to talk to you for a second. Here's my story. And I have. I had meningitis when I was a kid. I have been having these episodes now a Little bit more frequently. She does it by having him come in to give her a second opinion on a case history. And as he's reading the case history, midway through, he realizes it's her. And in the cliffhanger of the episode, is. Is this you, Baran? So Baran Alashimi is her name. I thought Sipide Moefi was quite good in that scene. Like, her eyes told you everything you needed to know. And you know, it is among the best cliffhangers of a season of cliffhangers. I can't wait to hear this conversation between. Did it land for you?

[Joel]

Yeah, I think I like the show when it admits it's a TV show. I don't mind the convention. I would rather. I prefer of the two modes of extreme storytelling that the show does. I would prefer a dramatically staged cliffhanger to another chorus turns to camera to explain medical inequalities in this country. I also think. And we don't have. We're going to find out exactly what's going on with her because I think the report says that she suffered seizures as a child. And then he says altered mental status from the infection and kind of there's some ellipses. And that's when he turns. Yeah, it would help me, without even knowing where this is going, the idea that her sort of like preternatural calm and control is itself a performance and a choice within her performance, if that makes sense. If the character has something happening within her or some chaotic aspect of her health that needs to be managed, that the fact that she has from day one presented herself as borderline robotic, that helps me understand the performance choice because the character needs to do that in order to maneuver in the world. That helps.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the flip of that would be, is if you feel like you're seeing her and because he is the center of the show, you kind of naturally gravitate to his pov. If you're seeing her through Robbie's pov really, with the exception of Santos, everybody likes her except for him and. Except for Santos or Robbie. And Santos doesn't like her because she threatened her with a bad time with the records keeping and charting. And Robbie just seems to be like, I came in here looking for a huge fucking showdown with every single person I work with today. And like, my replacement can't be good for. Because then I don't need to be here. And if I'm not here, I know what's waiting for the other side of the doors. I needed it, he almost needed it to be a disaster today. So that he could be like, I guess I can't leave. So I just. I think that I hear what you're saying. I. I will be curious, too, to see whether or not the diagnosis reveals a choice in performance. But different people on this show seem to have, like, very different styles of. Of. Of doing their parts.

[Joel]

You know, by the way, I realized that when I was talking about the things that kind of bummed me, that wasn't among them. But there were a number of scenes that felt quite staged in terms of, like, the writers room board says we have to get from A to B in this scene, the scene we're talking about. It's a cliffhanger. It has to have some drama to it. Well done. No problem. The Robbie and Duke scene, a lot has to come out executed.

[Chris Ryan]

I also, I will say about the Alashemi scene is that I felt like they leapt from. These two are still kind of at each other's throats a little bit to

[Joel]

like, I respect you.

[Chris Ryan]

Great, great speech, man. Come look at my. My diagnosis. Like, it. They, they. They skipped.

[Joel]

Like, they had to get there.

[Chris Ryan]

A couple of letters to get there.

[Joel]

Yeah, that's the way I felt about the Whitaker Langdon scene where. Where Whitaker. First of all, this entire scene is predicated on a Gilligan's island reference that. I know Whitaker was brought up on

[Chris Ryan]

a farm, but I made a Gilligan's island reference on the rewatchables last night that fucking, like, I, like, tried to. It's brave of you to compare Basic Instinct to Gilligan's Island. And it was just like, I honestly thought I was gonna have a heart attack.

[Joel]

Do you remember when we started reading Bill Simmons and he was constantly talking about the White Shadow? And we're like, sure. Because that was our. Like, that's the line. Yeah, everything. And then we're like, that's ridiculous. Makes reference to Elf. You know what I mean? But, like, I think that line has passed now. And so Whitaker, I know he grew up on a farm, and maybe he had, like, limited broadband, but, like, I don't think he was force fed Gilligan's island reruns at 4 o' clock the way we were when we came home from school. So that was one thing, but just the explosion happening in that moment. It's the nature of the show that you kind of have to go along with as much as the nurses explaining their plight. Whitaker is a complicated character, a good actor. That's another side of the character. He was due for that. Here's where it fell and they did the best they could with it, but it felt a little bit forced and shoehorned and that's as good as place as any to segue into the Langdon thing. There was, I don't think. I guess my question is, am I alone in this or did you feel major relapse vibes happening in this episode?

[Chris Ryan]

I would love to ask the. Whether it's Noah or whoever about this. The pit weave is now kind of like a thing where it's like you think it's going to be Robby who needs help, but what if it's Ashimi, you know, and that I still think there are even a couple of other people in that, in that department who might become bigger patients, I suppose than, than Robbie. I. Langdon being like, I've tweaked my back. Oh, it's so hard. Like I, like I'm right over here by the pills. And then like the fake Whitaker being like, what are you doing man? And he's like taking Advil. And I also don't know necessarily that like one kind of like one in a thousand fics on a guy has fixed Langdon. I don't think the show is that simple to be like he's. He really can still be a doctor. So everything else is going to fall into place.

[Joel]

Yes, it was, it was a lot of, a lot of indicating stuff all happening at the same time in the same episode. I also, I just. Please. Everything about the show is so meticulous. They have to mess up Patrick Ball's hair more. This man has not actually been working for 15 hours. That takes me out. I think the most old fashioned TV thing about the show is not that it is a medical procedural starring.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it seems to surprise me about what's gonna bother you. It is.

[Joel]

Kya. Kya made a note. Kya, do you agree with me about this? She's not ready for this. She made it. She laughed. So I thought I had a fan here. I thought I had some support. Just ruffled, ruffle the man up a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

You're like hour three of a Trump speech. Like, you know that's right. Everybody. Langdon's hair.

[Joel]

But also hour three of a Trump speech. No one's hair looks as good as Langdon's. You know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. I guess I was like the back is such a, a big painkiller trigger. But he was on benzos, not painkillers.

[Joel]

But I thought it was because of a back thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's right.

[Joel]

Do you have any, any theories about Whitaker's Missing badge and how that's going to come back to haunt us, I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

That's fucked up. Because, like, I, I really, I wondered whether or not when he was asking about the Advil, whether he was suspicious of Langdon taking his badge because Langdon also was like, retrace your steps, bro. And gaslighting him a little bit about it. I don't, I don't. I hope that's not the case.

[Joel]

Whoa.

[Chris Ryan]

Um, and I wonder if now Whitaker is going to be like, my badge is on the table here where Langdon was standing, like, and my badge is

[Joel]

responsible for checking out 16 opioid pills.

[Chris Ryan]

But I also, you know, like, look, we still have the dangling. What, What's. We haven't gotten a lot of depth into what's going on with Santos other than the fact that she has this romantic relationship with Garcia that seems to be somewhat one sided and that she has scars from cutting and that there is a very pointed moment where she takes like a kind of suture and scalpel kit out of a drawer. You know, I don't really know if they would go as far as to be like, not only did this guy relapse, he relapsed using his, like, coworker's ID card. Thus, like truly torpedoing. And then I don't think you get into, like, they didn't really tell everybody that he did this.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, Robbie would then be on the hook for that. I think even more like it. Sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a TV show and not like, I think Bergman and we're just gonna all start crying.

[Joel]

If you're reading the tea leaves of this season and this is not meant to be a prediction because they, they very well may end it with something dramatic and surprising.

[Chris Ryan]

And it was. They're coming back sooner. They may cliff it a little bit.

[Joel]

They could. I think my sense of this season, this far into it, has been the writers and producers feeling confident, as they should, to experiment with the form that they've only just created and seeing if they can get away with quieting things. Just when our instinct is that they will be ratcheting up and that the season may end with some hollowed out Jesus Christ, but we gotta do it again tomorrow. Vibes less. I mean, the first season was an enormous, hideous, violent, traumatic tragedy.

[Chris Ryan]

Dana getting punched in the face like,

[Joel]

yeah, but they ended with a beer in the park. We did it. You know, And I don't know if the season's gonna have that same trauma, but I do think one of their goals is to dampen or subvert our expectations. And so I think emotionally where it ends up will likely be different. And that's not necessarily in a place of dramatic violence. Coming home to roost with one of our characters.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll have our finale pit coverage for next Thursday and hopefully we'll have. I would love to have Noah back on the show.

[Joel]

Do we have two more?

[Chris Ryan]

Nope.

[Joel]

Next week's the finale. Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

9:00pm April 16th.

[Joel]

Hmm. We sure about that? Marisa Abella I heard was auditioning.

[Chris Ryan]

It's 15 episodes a season, right?

[Joel]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you want to talk briefly about Top Chef?

[Joel]

Yeah. Where are you at with it?

[Chris Ryan]

I guess I was wrong and spoilers for this week's Top Chef. But I was like taking out a third mortgage and putting it on Rhoda and I lost it all.

[Joel]

Sweet Icarus. She flew too close to the sun.

[Chris Ryan]

An interesting case of if I now I've watched this episode a couple of days ago, so forgive me if I get any details wrong, but I don't feel like she took and nor should she have. Maybe with the kids. Quick fire. The kids judging the quick fire. I felt like she was like, I'm just going to make like a lamb like shepherd's pie. And not really. I've seen this happen before where somebody is like, this is a stupid quick fire.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And then goes into the final round and is like, I'm still. I'm still him. And loses. I do not remember a two time elimination winner going out of the fucking show within two weeks after that.

[Joel]

It's. It's a shocking fall and I think generally when cause front runners have fallen with distressing regularity and the best example of that being Kristen came back from Last Chance Kitchen to win her season and no one's questioning her bona fides. I think though, what was remarkable about Rhoda was that usually frontrunners fall for, you know, like a head scratching cookery error or a failure with ambition and vision and not being able to execute. I rarely see someone just absolutely fuck up both.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Like that was. And you could tell again, I think they're doing some good storytelling stuff for the edits that like Tom was like this is ridiculous that she didn't know how to cook a fish or told us it was roasted or whatever. Separate. And apart from the squid ink stuff, how did you feel about the what's her name is injured. And so they're like, we're gonna give you a chance to leave.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm glad you asked me this because I have an opinion which is I don't think she's gaining any kind of unfair advantage by skipping the quick fires. But something similar, not entirely similar, but something kind of like this happened on Survivor over the last couple of weeks, which is essentially two guys who were in something of an alliance together and thus targets of another group of people. One of them had a foot injury and there was some speculation like, I wonder if this guy's going to have to take himself out of the game soon, so maybe we should get this other dude and then let medicine take this guy out and we get two for the price of one. Basically. Jen has kind of just been in the middle for me. I can't really make a huge.

[Joel]

Also, she made a dip for elimination.

[Chris Ryan]

Was really nice, you know, and everything, but I would say that if she. Now she's on basically, like if you miss another quick fire, you can't sit out.

[Joel]

It's not optional. Right?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. I would love to know what the pre existing rule is, like whether that's the first time this has happened that someone is like, I'm taking a medical on quick fires but we'll still cook eliminations. And it kind of speaks to the like flaw of decoupling the two halves of the show.

[Joel]

It's beautifully expressed. I would say that the issue, the conversation about load management is unavoidable at this point. And I'm not a fan, I think

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not a fan of load management or her getting to continue to cook if she can.

[Joel]

As a fan of the Philadelphia 76ers, I definitely have an opinion about players choosing when to play during the course of the season.

[Chris Ryan]

Dr. Darrell was right and he needed his fucking appendix out and like that's why it was weird that he was sick for two weeks. Okay, I agree, but I'm just saying

[Joel]

Sixers wise because that's the only time beat this season has taken himself out or been weird about when he's playing. I think again, back this is just off the dome, but I believe that there have been people who have injured themselves in quickfires and then had to be attended to and not completed it. But I've never seen anyone tap out twice and then show up steroided up for the. By the way, where's the drug test, frankly? Or can't they all get steroids? Because I would really cook a lot better if I just had a.

[Chris Ryan]

If I was Rhoda, I might feel away for sure. I mean, I know everybody is like, we're all in this together. And Justin and her seem like a great couple. And I would say that my opinion of the chefs as people has slowly gone up and my opinion of them as chefs has dipped a little bit from where it was in the beginning of the season.

[Joel]

I have two other takes for you. One, the wild water rafting park looks sick as hell. And I think you should go when you're in Denver this weekend.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you. It's in North Carolina. Why did I think.

[Joel]

Oh, that's right. Sorry. Can we, can we?

[Chris Ryan]

No, we can't. We can't. I love that. Come on. No. And I gotta tell you, why did

[Joel]

I think it was in Denver?

[Chris Ryan]

I just think that all those things are piss tunnels. And like to me that is just like a giant floating public restroom. Now I love a slide, do you know what I mean?

[Joel]

Because you're just getting the slow trickle behind you. What do you mean? That's okay. You're either splashing out or you're not, buddy.

[Chris Ryan]

I, I just, I think it's a more of like a quick engage, but when it's like the lazy river, it's the lazy river of piss. Guys are slamming white claws on edible now. They're just letting it happen again.

[Joel]

I feel everywhere. This is not. Maybe it's just branding. This wasn't like Dorney Park's wild water kingdom. This is presented as like the national.

[Chris Ryan]

An extension of. But I think that's, I think that that is a man made monument to wildlife, but is still like, I bet that water smells bad.

[Joel]

Wow. This is, this is the strongest take you've had this entire episode. You laid in wait while I hung myself on shows. You didn't even deign to much and yet the entire water park industry just got bodied.

[Chris Ryan]

I think about water parks a lot because one of the things moments of my life was at Wildwood they have a ride that I don't think wild

[Joel]

water kingdom in Pennsylvania or Wildwood, New Jersey. Yeah, A lot of wilds in our

[Chris Ryan]

child there was basically you would walk up a ladder, I think, or steps, but it felt like a ladder forever. You would ride down a relatively wide shoot that then cut off in midair and you were ejected out over a very deep pool. And that moment of coming out of the fucking chute, it was incredible. That's the best feeling I've ever had in my life. Bar like three or four other things. But then everything else about water parks I think are pretty disgusting.

[Joel]

First of all, I'm sorry to inform you that the woke nanny state shut that park down quite Some time ago, that level of fun slash risk is no longer allowed due to municipal.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, we got. We had way more injuries back then, but we had better times.

[Joel]

Right. Well, we weren't load managing. You know what I mean? You could go to the park every day.

[Chris Ryan]

Kids with like arm casts anymore, because, like, people watch them and they're like, hey, don't climb that tree.

[Joel]

You don't think that, like, advances in medicine perhaps are contributing here?

[Chris Ryan]

Have you guys seen a kid with a cast recently? No. Their silence is definite.

[Joel]

This is all child free this entire year.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't see a lot of children in general.

[Joel]

This is a good segue, actually, to my other takeaway.

[Chris Ryan]

I like going up to a kid who's like, have you ever broken your arm? Would you like to.

[Joel]

You know who you sound like right now? Who? My number one enemy on the show, Seeker.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. And he was just like, I like practicing having babies.

[Joel]

Yeah. And he's just like, ha, ha ha. Fuck children. In front of three children. Let me just say something. And you're not like this. You're a fun uncle. You're a lovely person. That attitude sucks. That's stupid. And you look lame. Like, it's okay if you don't want children, but it's not cool to be like, look at these little people.

[Chris Ryan]

I wanted children, but I was rendered infertile by Tori Park.

[Joel]

That time you Heisman into the warm New Jersey hair. That brief second, that brief second when. When the rivers forgive me, my unborn

[Chris Ryan]

son as the Riv must go for

[Joel]

glory as the rivulets of other people's urine. Wicked. Off of your airborne body. You're like, it's never getting better than this. Unless I can tell Chris Jr. Like,

[Chris Ryan]

I'll drink water while he's doing this.

[Joel]

Yeah, dog wanted to feel alive again.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's to say? Who's to say I didn't make the right choice?

[Joel]

You know, I think the listeners of this podcast feel like you made the right choice.

[Chris Ryan]

But Seeger, you gotta. You gotta like you're miked up, brother. You know, like when you're back at the loft in North Carolina, you can. You can be like, ugh, kids, not my fave. I mean, don't. Don't like shit talk. Three lovely children.

[Joel]

Very camera ready they are. That is a very, very challenging.

[Chris Ryan]

Ainsley, Wolfie.

[Joel]

And these are their names.

[Chris Ryan]

Kate something.

[Joel]

Mary Kate, can I be real with you for a second? None of them have ever broken a bone. Those kids are helicoptered. I think maybe you're onto something. I just mean, like, that is historically, infamously the hardest type of panel for these people to cook for because. And they always overthink it. And Rhoda being like, I will tell these children that, you know, the equivalent of being like Bambi is in this pot, as opposed to just being like, it's meat. Enjoy meat potatoes. Whereas the person who won made ice cream. Like, that's.

[Chris Ryan]

That was in the. His brother made pepperoni pizza. That was crazy. Or sausage pizza.

[Joel]

That was smart.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's wrap it up here because we do have another podcast to record right now.

[Joel]

Yeah. And also I know it's getting clipped now, so we can just wrap it up.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks to Kai, Kai and Sarah and we will be back on Sunday night to Discuss the Season 3 premiere review for you. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love, for everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.

[Joel]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.

[Chris Ryan]

No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

[Joel]

Anyway, give it a try.

[Chris Ryan]

@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for

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