Summary of "The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe" - Episode 421: Edward Ring—What to Do About Bass

Release Date: January 14, 2025
Host: Mike Rowe
Guest: Edward Ring, Director of Water and Energy Policy, California Policy Center
Episode Title: What to Do About Bass

In Episode 421 of "The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe," host Mike Rowe engages in a deeply insightful conversation with Edward Ring, the Director of Water and Energy Policy at the California Policy Center. The episode centers around the unprecedented wildfire crisis in California, exploring its root causes, the failures in land and water management policies, and potential solutions to mitigate future disasters. Through a candid and comprehensive dialogue, Rowe and Ring dissect the complexities of environmental policy, infrastructural shortcomings, and the urgent need for accountability and reform.

Introduction: Setting the Stage for Crisis [00:04 - 05:02]

The episode begins with a personal touch as Mike Rowe's mother calls in during the podcast recording, highlighting the ever-present concerns amidst chaos. This interruption segues into a discussion about the severe wildfire situation engulfing California, described as potentially the "greatest disaster in the history of California."

Mike Rowe [00:57]: "The earthquake was a biggie. Certainly the biggest in my lifetime. This thing is going to come in probably close to $200 billion in property damage, probably more."

Rowe underscores the scale of the disaster, emphasizing the ongoing fires and their unpredictable nature, which compounds the challenge of assessing total damage.

Introducing Edward Ring: Expert Insights [05:02 - 10:29]

Mike Rowe introduces Edward Ring, positioning him as the ideal guest to provide expert analysis on California's water and land management failures that have exacerbated the wildfire crisis. Ring's role is pivotal in dissecting the systemic issues beyond the immediate flames.

Mike Rowe [04:35]: "If there's anybody better informed about the state of California, the state of water management, the state of land management, I don't know who it is."

Rowe expresses frustration with the lack of clear answers from political leaders, setting the stage for a no-nonsense discussion aimed at uncovering accountability and practical solutions.

The Roots of the Wildfire Crisis [10:30 - 26:36]

Forest Management Failures [12:48 - 19:14]

Edward Ring delves into the historical mismanagement of California's forests, attributing the current disaster to policies that transformed thriving forests into "overgrown tinderboxes."

Edward Ring [12:48]: "Forests that thrived in California for over 20 million years were allowed to become overgrown tinderboxes. And then, with stupefying ferocity, within the span of a few decades, they burned to the ground."

He criticizes the reduction in timber harvesting from 6 billion board feet in the 1990s to merely 1/2 billion board feet, leading to excessive tree density that fuels massive fires.

Scarcity vs. Abundance Mindset [19:14 - 26:36]

Ring contrasts the prevalent scarcity mindset with an abundance mindset, arguing that the former hinders resilience and affordability in resource management.

Edward Ring [19:14]: "Abundance is synonymous with resilience and it's synonymous with affordability... You don't have to achieve those things through scarcity."

He advocates for an "all of the above" strategy in water and energy management, emphasizing the need for desalination, wastewater recycling, and runoff harvesting to address resource scarcity comprehensively.

Edward Ring [24:26]: "We have to figure out how to deliver energy and water and housing to our population. We have to figure out how to do it using the power of industry, not the power of government."

Rowe and Ring discuss the implications of urban density in California's major cities, suggesting that smarter land use and housing allocation could accommodate population growth without exacerbating resource strain.

Edward Ring [24:26]: "California is the most densely populated urban areas in the country... why don't you allocate a little bit of that ranch land to housing?"

Infrastructure and Policy Breakdown [26:36 - 45:35]

Water Infrastructure Shortcomings [40:07 - 45:35]

Ring highlights the critical failures in California's water infrastructure, pointing out that urban water usage has decreased despite population growth, leading to inadequate water supply during emergencies like wildfires.

Edward Ring [40:07]: "Urban areas used to employ 9 million acre-feet, now it's 8 million acre-feet but population has grown."

He criticizes the decision to empty the Santa Ynez Reservoir for maintenance during fire season, which deprived firefighters of essential water resources.

Edward Ring [17:33]: "They could have pre-positioned fire assets when they knew the Santa Ana's were blowing. They should have got... ready with all of their equipment."

Bureaucratic Hurdles in Fire Prevention [43:37 - 45:35]

The conversation shifts to the bureaucratic impediments that hinder effective fire prevention measures. Ring explains how stringent regulations and permit processes prevent timely and efficient forest management.

Edward Ring [43:37]: "They have to do studies, litigations, permits from multiple agencies... it's incredible."

He urges for streamlined processes that allow for proactive fuel load reduction without the excessive delays caused by bureaucratic red tape.

Edward Ring [45:35]: "60% of conifer forests are federal national forest and it's completely off limits to logging."

Environmental Philosophy and Public Perception [45:36 - 64:40]

Single Species vs. Total Ecosystem Management [31:30 - 32:03]

Edward Ring elaborates on the difference between single species management and total ecosystem management, advocating for a holistic approach to environmental stewardship.

Edward Ring [31:30]: "Single species management should be contrasted to total ecosystem management."

Public Misconceptions and Media Influence [35:04 - 39:46]

Rowe draws comparisons between public perceptions of nuclear energy and the reality of environmental impacts, questioning how misconceptions hinder effective policy-making.

Mike Rowe [46:08]: "The health benefits of walking a few miles every day are not only significant... But by the same token, why is nobody talking about more subdivisions, more room, more spread out?"

Ring counters by highlighting the importance of informed public discourse in shifting from fear-based to solution-oriented approaches.

Edward Ring [37:24]: "Recognizing that we're not in a population crisis is one of the first steps."

Socioeconomic Impacts and Rebuilding Challenges [64:03 - 70:11]

Financial Barriers to Rebuilding [57:32 - 64:40]

Ring discusses the socioeconomic hurdles faced by Californians in rebuilding after wildfires, such as high construction costs, prolonged permit processes, and inadequate insurance coverage.

Edward Ring [57:32]: "Construction costs in California are sky high... Permits take three years."

He criticizes the state's insurance policies, noting that the California FAIR program lacks sufficient reserves to cover extensive wildfire damages.

Accountability and Special Interests [66:58 - 70:11]

The conversation touches on the influence of special interests and bureaucratic inertia in perpetuating systemic failures, with Ring introducing the concept of the "Homeless Industrial Complex" to illustrate how certain sectors benefit from ongoing crises without addressing root causes.

Edward Ring [66:58]: "The scarcity mentality benefits bureaucrats. It benefits people that already own existing assets in the private sector. And of course, it benefits unions."

Conclusion: Pathways Forward [70:11 - 75:09]

Voter Awareness and Policy Reform [70:11 - 74:13]

Rowe and Ring emphasize the critical role of informed voters in driving policy reform. They advocate for a realignment of political priorities towards practical solutions that promote competition and reduce bureaucratic inefficiencies.

Edward Ring [72:40]: "It's a perfect example of how the scarcity mentality, which benefits special interests, is harming everybody else."

Mike Rowe [73:21]: "We can't afford to live here... It's never going to be the same."

Final Thoughts and Call to Action [75:09 - End]

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage thoughtfully with political processes, support informed leadership, and advocate for systemic changes in land and water management policies to prevent future disasters.

Notable Quotes

• Mike Rowe [00:57]: "The earthquake was a biggie. Certainly the biggest in my lifetime. This thing is going to come in probably close to $200 billion in property damage, probably more."

• Edward Ring [12:48]: "Forests that thrived in California for over 20 million years were allowed to become overgrown tinderboxes. And then, with stupefying ferocity, within the span of a few decades, they burned to the ground."

• Edward Ring [19:14]: "Abundance is synonymous with resilience and it's synonymous with affordability... You don't have to achieve those things through scarcity."

• Edward Ring [24:26]: "California is the most densely populated urban areas in the country... why don't you allocate a little bit of that ranch land to housing?"

• Edward Ring [31:30]: "Single species management should be contrasted to total ecosystem management."

• Mike Rowe [32:03]: "It sounds an awful lot like what's happening in our cities... same analysis."

• Edward Ring [37:24]: "Recognizing that we're not in a population crisis is one of the first steps."

• Edward Ring [43:37]: "They have to do studies, litigations, permits from multiple agencies... it's incredible."

• Edward Ring [57:32]: "Construction costs in California are sky high... Permits take three years."

• Edward Ring [72:40]: "It's a perfect example of how the scarcity mentality, which benefits special interests, is harming everybody else."

• Mike Rowe [73:21]: "We can't afford to live here... It's never going to be the same."

Key Takeaways

1. Systemic Failures: The wildfire crisis in California is deeply rooted in decades of poor forest and water management policies, exacerbated by bureaucratic inefficiencies and special interest influences.

2. Shift in Mindset: Moving from a scarcity to an abundance mindset is crucial for building resilience in resource management, ensuring affordability, and fostering sustainable growth.

3. Infrastructure Imperatives: There is an urgent need to overhaul California's water infrastructure to support its growing urban population and enhance firefighting capabilities during emergencies.

4. Policy Reform: Streamlining permit processes, reintroducing responsible logging, and implementing comprehensive ecosystem management can mitigate future wildfire risks.

5. Public Engagement: Informed and proactive voter participation is essential to drive the necessary policy reforms and hold accountable those responsible for the current crisis.

6. Economic Implications: High construction costs, prolonged rebuilding times, and inadequate insurance coverage pose significant challenges to recovery efforts, necessitating federal intervention and insurance industry reforms.

7. Special Interests: Identifying and addressing the influence of special interests is vital to dismantle the "scarcity mentality" that hinders effective problem-solving and resource allocation.

This episode serves as a clarion call for urgent policy reforms, sustainable management practices, and an informed and engaged electorate to address and prevent the escalating wildfire disasters in California.