425: Darrell Lester—The Eight Letter F Word - The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

Transcript

Mike Rowe (0:03)

Hey, guys. It's the way I hear it. You know me and you probably know Chuck. And if you don't, boy, are you in for a treat because Chuck and I are both here today along with another. I don't want to overstate it, old friend, but another guest that I'm going to go ahead and call. Great. Yeah, he's absolutely great. He's a guy who has seen a lot about a topic that everyone is slightly familiar with, knows, but doesn't know a lot about. And he knows a lot about it. Spoiler alert. It's the Publisher's Clearinghouse. Yes. The people who have been sending you magazines or your friends magazines. I don't think you can be alive today and certainly be over like 20 and not know Publishers Clearinghouse. Did you ever fill the stuff out and unpeel the things and Stan the cage? Yes, I did. Oh yeah, me too. I did. Me too. I loved it. I took a deep dive in it. I found it both complicated and annoying. But. But I thought the whole thing. Promising, right? Promising. You know, And I'm like, I'm getting a great bargain on some magazines and I have a chance to win a great deal of. Yes. And so I did it like with millions and millions of other people. But. Oh my God. This guy, Darrell Lester has written a book called Downfall of an Icon. And Darrell in 1973, got hired right out of college. He was a math major and this little MONPA company needed him to make some arithmetic sense out of their mailings. He stayed for 30 years. He became a senior vice president. And he had a front row seat to what happened that A, made this a multi billion dollar company and B, the most beloved brand in the country for a time, and then not so much.

Darrell Lester (1:48)

And then the most hated.

Mike Rowe (1:49)

Oh, my God. It's. This is one of those stories that's kind of been right in front of you for years, but you probably don't know it. He's been out of the company for a decade or two and he's just decided the story is too good not to tell. And he's right. He's a really fun guest. He's written this book that, you know, on a personal level, as I was reading it, man, I was just. I was so sucked in. Not to the specific narrative he was telling, but by all of the little adjacencies in my life. Oh, yeah, for sure. Cause I'm, you know, I sold out friends long before I had anything to bargain with. You know, my first job on TV was qvc and before that it was water purifiers out of the trunk and it was magazines over the telephone, computers. Sure, yeah, sure. So there's a Willy Loman in all of us, in my view, and I think we're all salesmen to some degree, and this guy certainly would agree with that. We're calling the episode. What are we calling it? The eight Letter F word. The eight letter F word. Yes. Because aside from the F word you're thinking of right now, this one has eight letters. It has eight letters and it probably had a more shocking impact than the other F word. Kind of the beginning of the end. This F word. Yes. It's a fun book. He's a delightful guest, and I look forward to introducing you to Daryl Lester. Thanks, Chuck. Right after this dumb. Here's a riddle for you to ponder. What does a cute dog running up to lick your hand, a genuine smile from a total stranger, a picture perfect sunset, and posting a job on ZipRecruiter all have in common? Give up. I'll tell you. They're all free and they all make your life better. The research is clear, my friends, and incontrovertible. Everybody loves cute dogs, genuine smiles, beautiful sunsets, and the unparalleled thrill of finding a quality candidate for free. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter find that quality candidate in less than 24 hours. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com ro the results are instantaneous. ZipRecruiter smart technology starts showing your job to qualified candidates the moment you post. And then when you see a candidate who'd be perfect for your job, use ZipRecruiter's pre written invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates. It's that simple. It really works. I've used them myself more than once. So scratch the dog, smile back at the stranger, and enjoy the sunset. But for crying out loud, don't forget to post a job for free at ziprecruiter.com row that's ziprecruiter.com ro the smartest way to hire the smartest way to hire Daryl Lester.

Summary

Summary of "The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe" - Episode 425: Darrell Lester—The Eight Letter F Word

Introduction to Darrell Lester and "Downfall of an Icon"

In Episode 425 of The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe, host Mike Rowe welcomes Darrell Lester, the author of Downfall of an Icon. Darrell spent 30 years at Publisher's Clearinghouse (PCH), witnessing its transformation from a beloved multi-billion dollar company to one of the most hated brands in the country. The episode delves into Darrell's insider perspective on PCH's rise and fall, offering listeners a captivating exploration of American capitalism's complexities.

Darrell Lester [04:58]: "30 years, same company, 30 years, one company."

Early Days of Publisher's Clearinghouse

Darrell Lester joined PCH in 1973, right out of college with a mathematics degree. At the time, PCH was a modest operation with around 100 employees, including a small marketing and computer department. Darrell's role as a marketing analyst provided him direct access to the seven vice presidents, allowing him to influence key marketing strategies from the ground up.

Darrell Lester [08:10]: "There’s so much misinformation about Publishers Clearinghouse from the press. Almost everything you've heard from the press about PCH is incorrect."

Innovative Marketing and Sweepstakes Strategy

Harold Mertz, the founder of PCH, pioneered the company's unique approach to marketing by bundling multiple magazine subscriptions together and introducing sweepstakes as a key incentive. Initially, the sweepstakes featured modest prizes with favorable odds, fostering consumer trust and engagement.

Darrell Lester [11:13]: "We weren't manufacturing it. We were selling somebody else's product."

As PCH's mailings evolved, the top prizes grew significantly, enhancing the allure but also complicating the odds of winning. Darrell highlights how the company's reliance on sweepstakes became both a strength and a vulnerability.

The Introduction of the Prize Patrol

One of PCH's most iconic marketing innovations was the Prize Patrol—a live presentation of winners receiving their prizes. Developed by Todd Sloan, a junior marketing employee, the Prize Patrol elevated PCH's visibility and cemented its reputation as a dream-fulfilling brand.

Darrell Lester [62:34]: "Todd Sloan was a junior level employee. The prize patrol almost didn't happen."

The Prize Patrol became a cultural phenomenon, regularly featured on television and in various media outlets, contributing to PCH's status as the "most loved company in America."

Eccentric Company Culture

PCH's internal culture was marked by eccentricity and camaraderie. Management exhibited unconventional behaviors that would likely be deemed inappropriate today, such as speeches delivered in underwear and bizarre office decorations like a naked cyclops statue.

Darrell Lester [46:52]: "Dan Doyle walks in... wearing a coonskin hat, a woolly vest that's open... holding a chainsaw."

Despite—or perhaps because of—these antics, employees felt like family, fostering a unique and lively workplace environment.

The Shift to Greed: The "Finalist" Scandal

In the late 1980s, PCH introduced the word "finalist" into their sweepstakes mailings, a strategic move that led to a staggering 100% increase in sales. However, this decision marked the beginning of the company's ethical decline. The term "finalist" was misleading, suggesting a higher probability of winning than was actually the case, as the odds were manipulated to favor the company financially.

Darrell Lester [66:49]: "We tested it again and it gave us 100% lift. So the word was 'finalist.'"

The use of "finalist" led to widespread deception claims, culminating in numerous lawsuits and a significant loss of consumer trust. Despite initial financial gains, the ethical compromise ultimately damaged PCH's reputation irreparably.

Legal Troubles and Company Decline

The "finalist" strategy attracted intense scrutiny from state attorney generals and led to class-action lawsuits. The negative publicity was relentless, overshadowing PCH's previous philanthropic efforts and philanthropic reputation. The company's sales plummeted by 50%, and massive layoffs followed as PCH struggled to recover.

Darrell Lester [77:43]: "We went to red ink virtually overnight."

PCH's inability to reconcile its newfound greed with its foundational integrity led to its downfall, transforming it from a beloved brand to a subject of public disdain.

Darrell Lester's Reflections and Motivations

Reflecting on his experiences, Darrell emphasizes the importance of integrity in business. He expresses regret over the company's ethical slip and underscores how pivotal marketing decisions can alter a company's trajectory. Motivated by his firsthand experiences, Darrell penned Downfall of an Icon to set the record straight and highlight the moral lessons embedded in PCH's history.

Darrell Lester [90:06]: "The story is fascinating with the highs, the lows, the comedy, the winners, the prize patrol. It's an amazing mom and pop story."

Darrell hopes his book will serve as a cautionary tale and inspire future generations to prioritize ethical practices over short-term profits.

Conclusion and Current State of PCH

As of the episode's release in February 2025, PCH continues to face challenges, including massive layoffs and reduced prize offerings, signaling ongoing struggles to reclaim its former glory. Darrell remains hopeful for PCH's survival, reflecting on his meaningful yet tumultuous career with fondness and concern.

Darrell Lester [94:21]: "I hope they survive. It made me who I am today."

Mike Rowe encourages Darrell to pursue adaptations of his book into film or television, recognizing the story's dramatic potential and its valuable insights into the pitfalls of unethical business practices.

Mike Rowe [90:40]: "I think it's great that you're doing that at this point in your life. How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking?"

Notable Quotes

Darrell Lester [08:10]: "There’s so much misinformation about Publishers Clearinghouse from the press. Almost everything you've heard from the press about PCH is incorrect."
Darrell Lester [62:34]: "Todd Sloan was a junior level employee. The prize patrol almost didn't happen."
Darrell Lester [66:49]: "We tested it again and it gave us 100% lift. So the word was 'finalist.'"
Darrell Lester [77:43]: "We went to red ink virtually overnight."
Darrell Lester [90:06]: "The story is fascinating with the highs, the lows, the comedy, the winners, the prize patrol. It's an amazing mom and pop story."

Conclusion

Episode 425 offers an in-depth look into the rise and fall of Publisher's Clearinghouse through the eyes of a seasoned insider. Darrell Lester's narrative serves as a poignant reminder of the delicate balance between aggressive marketing and ethical responsibility. His experiences underscore the long-term consequences that can arise from compromising a company's foundational values for short-term gains.