449: Theo Von—A Troubled White

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe
Episode: 449: Theo Von—A Troubled White
Date: September 9, 2025
Guest: Theo Von

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Overview

This episode features a lively, deeply personal, and characteristically meandering conversation between host Mike Rowe, co-host Chuck Klausmeier, and comedian/podcaster Theo Von. The discussion explores Theo's unique life trajectory from a small border town kid to one of America's most popular comedians and podcasters ("a troubled white," as per his own description), his advocacy for work ethic and recovery, and a joint contemplation with Mike about launching a show that spotlights American-made goods and manufacturing.

Themes include personal reinvention, the realities of addiction and recovery, the significance of American manufacturing, the power of authenticity, and the joys and quirks of working-class life—all delivered with humor, humility, and the kind of meandering authenticity characteristic of both hosts.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Meeting and Mutual Admiration

• Mike recounts their initial meeting in Nashville and how he appreciated Theo's depth and patriotism.
  • "First and foremost, he cares an awful lot about this country... He's determined to do his part to reinvigorate manufacturing." — Mike Rowe [01:04]
• Theo's podcasting journey is discussed—his rise from rural Louisiana to having one of the biggest podcasts in the world, and his path through stand-up and recovery advocacy.
  • "He's the kind of comedian who, it seems to me, doesn't tell jokes... He tells a story in a funny way." — Chuck [02:41]
  • "He just doesn't fit, and what makes him interesting is that he doesn't care." — Mike Rowe [03:06]

2. Authenticity, Struggles, and Recovery

• Theo’s background: Growing up between Louisiana and Mississippi, learning hard work on a farm, and the impact of coming from a poor and intense family environment.
  • "I was just another troubled white... I worked on a farm growing up... in Louisiana, right on the Louisiana and Mississippi line." — Theo Von [06:27, 06:38]
  • "Everything was so intense [growing up] that you couldn't even let your guard down for a second to have, like, a feeling." — Theo Von [35:25]
• Openness about addiction and mental health:
  • "I'm kind of a late bloomer in life... I'm learning a lot of stuff that I probably should have had more of a understanding of when I was young. But late." — Theo [34:42]
  • Theo shares a powerful story of his brother supporting him in a difficult moment:
    • "He was just like, hey, man, if you want, I'll just sit here with you for a little while, you know, like, we don't have to say anything..." — Theo [37:22]
    • "In my life, nobody said that: 'Hey, I'm just going to be here, and that's it.' It was just a powerful moment for me." — Theo [38:27]

3. Humor and Observations

• Seamlessly interwoven throughout the episode, the trio riff on everything from underwear fabrics ("They were thick underwear... wool is an underrated fabric." — [16:35–17:03]), Civil War reenactments, finding bones as kids ("I always wanted to find a body," says Theo [22:26]), childhood pranks, and their collective awe at the peculiarity of American life.
• Distinct laughter and off-the-wall analogies keep the conversation light, even during heavier segments.

4. On Manifesting and Making Things Happen

• Mike and Theo reflect on how explicitly stating your intentions can play a role in making good things happen.
  • "There’s just occasions where you say a thing out loud and all of a sudden it’s made real." — Mike Rowe [11:52]
  • Theo relates this to his own experiences and recent foray into intentional manifesting:
    • "I sit out there and I just said, like, you know, I accept abundance. I accept possibility..." — Theo [29:12]
  • This leads into broader themes of shaping one’s reality, confidence, and reframing the world.

5. The Influence and Vulnerability of Podcasting

• Theo’s show as a space for people’s authentic stories, including his own, and the unexpected power he finds in simply listening to people:
  • "Sometimes there are moments, like... I learned little things from my brother, and sometimes if there's days or moments where I'm even like a tenth of what he's been for me, then that's where some of those kind of little moments come from..." — Theo [38:27]
  • "You let him talk for maybe 15 minutes... thousands of people learned or connected so much from watching you listen." — Mike on Theo's interviewing style [36:50]
• Navigating anonymity and celebrity in recovery spaces:
  • "If I'm worried about [being recognized], then I'm not doing well... but when I get in chances where I get to have moments like that, I really treasure them." — Theo [39:44]

6. American Identity, Manufacturing, and Reinvention

• Mike and Theo's shared concern for the future of American manufacturing and skilled trades:
  • "I have always admired people who make things... My whole foundation was based on... talking about it before I had it." — Mike, on the Microworks Foundation [11:05]
  • Joint brainstorming: The two discuss collaborating on an "Antiques Roadshow meets QVC" style programming to highlight people making things in America.
    • "What if we started, like, a QVC type of show where we did little installments with different people that made a product?" — Theo [76:00]
    • "Being able to fend for yourself is important to the human spirit... people need to see proof that other people found a way." — Mike [87:03]
  • Theo on his mom's work ethic: "The hardest working man I’ve ever met is my mother." [86:16]

7. Pop Culture, Childhood, and Wrestling

• Nostalgia and cultural icons: Wrestling, childhood TV (Rockford Files, Little House on the Prairie), and the communal aspect of these shared experiences.
  • "Wrestling, dude, wrestling, NWA, WWF. It felt like kind of... poor kids, like it belonged to them." — Theo [64:20]
• Theo humorously details his encounters with celebrities, awkward childhood moments, and fondness for John Irving’s novels.
• The segment on childhood television up to hero-worship at wrestling funerals is filled with laughs and camaraderie.

8. Memorable, Irreverent Moments

• On wrestling funerals: "What you gonna do when Hulk Hogan watches over you?" — Theo [63:39]
• On their ongoing banter and acronyms: "We went from EPIRBs to, you know, CWRs." — Mike [26:07], "We’re just kidding, Danielle and Terry. Terry’s your wife?" — Theo [43:32]
• Random tangents about Civil War reenactment, finding bones, and sharing awkward family stories.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Defining Theo Von:
  • "He’s an unfiltered American original... He’s occupying a really unique piece of real estate in this weird industry of ours." — Mike [01:54]
• On Authenticity:
  • "He’s funny in a strange way. He doesn’t fit. And what makes him interesting is that he doesn’t care. He’s just who he is." — Mike [03:06]
• Theo on Manifestation and Recovery:
  • "I just never done it before... but I thought it was kind of interesting. And then I wanted to do it again yesterday." [29:12]
• Mike on Making Work Visible:
  • "I think people need to see proof that other people found a way." [87:03]
• Theo on Family:
  • "All I am is just little pieces of them." [92:22]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:03–04:00: Introduction, Theo Von’s background, podcast origins, and style
• 06:25–13:34: Theo’s upbringing, farm work, authenticity, and comedic persona
• 14:44–17:39: On fitting in, answering the door in wool underwear, the comfort with being different
• 20:19–23:33: Stories about finding bones, childhood escapades
• 29:12–31:56: Theo explains his approach to manifesting and positive thinking
• 35:25–38:27: Family, emotional guardedness, and the brother’s quiet support
• 39:44–41:06: Navigating recovery meetings as a public figure
• 64:13–70:01: Wrestling nostalgia—Hulk Hogan, NWA, wrestlers as childhood icons
• 74:08–86:32: Deep dive into the idea of creating a show/platform for American makers
• 86:32–92:22: The value of work, highlighting family business, and wrapping up with plans to inspire self-sufficiency

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Tone and Style

The conversation blends irreverent, quick-witted comedy (true to Von’s style and Mike Rowe’s dry humor) with moments of genuine personal vulnerability. The tone oscillates between raucous laughter, thoughtful reflection on work and identity, and earnest brainstorming about America’s future.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a snapshot of two uniquely American voices batting around big ideas—how to help people help themselves, how to honor work, and how to keep a sense of humor (and humility) about the strangeness of life. It’s a celebration of reinvention, authentic storytelling, and the ongoing American spirit—“all we're trying to do is reinvigorate that pioneer spirit,” as Mike says near the end.

For listeners, it’s a ride from laugh-out-loud absurdity to moments of raw candor—proof positive that sometimes the best ideas come from conversations that don’t stick to the script.

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“I just know, you know, when you think this is something that makes you feel like it would keep you excited about life, seeing some family do something and make something and then they have like a thing or whatever.”
— Theo Von [91:30]

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For anyone who hasn’t listened, this episode is a masterclass in authenticity, American grit, and the hilarious chaos of unscripted conversation.

Transcript

[Mike Rowe]

Hello, friends. Mike Rowe here. Chuck Klausmeier sitting across from me at the Microworks world headquarters where we are now recording. It is nice to do this in person, isn't it?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I think this is the best way to do it.

[Mike Rowe]

Honestly, it's the only sensible way to do it. Especially when your guest is the one and only Theodore Capitani Von Karnatowski iii.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yes, yes. Other. AKA Theo Vaughan, A.

[Mike Rowe]

A K, A or AK Also known as. I guess it's AA Also. Also known as. Oh, a Troubled white. Yes, right.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Self described. Self described.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't know if you know Theo Vaughn or not. I suspect some of you probably do. He has the fourth or fifth largest podcast in the world. Yeah, I met him a couple years ago. No idea who he was, but I was invited to be on his podcast and I happened to be in Nashville where he spends most of his time, and we got along great. And then a year or two later he invited me back and I said, sure, yeah. And that was here in Los Angeles. And that conversation was a ton of fun, but memorable for me anyway because I really learned some things about the guy that I didn't know. First and foremost was he. He cares an awful lot about this country. Yeah. He's determined to do his part to reinvigorate manufacturing.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yes. He cares about the country and the.

[Mike Rowe]

People in it, and maybe not even in that order. You know, two things. This is what you call a restricted podcast. Is that. Is that what we're doing?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Explicit. It has to be marked explicit because, you know, he uses. He's a little fast and loose with the. With the swear words and actually, I.

[Mike Rowe]

Think we both were.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

We all three were.

[Mike Rowe]

We might have been. Yeah, we might have been. Apologies if you're put off by that sort of thing, but this is an unfiltered American original. His story. I'm not going to tell you the whole thing. He'll tell you part of it. But he came from a poor part of the country for sure, and he has risen to become one of the most popular comedians in America. Like I said, he's got one of the most listened to podcasts and anywhere. He does a lot of good work. He's helped a lot of people, too. His own path to recovery has led him on kind of an odyssey and a big chunk of his audience really calls in and shares some surprisingly personal things. And I just think he's occupying a really unique piece of real estate in this weird industry of ours.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yeah, he is. And like you said before, he really does care about people. And he's the kind of guy who. He's the kind of comedian who, it seems to me, doesn't tell jokes or doesn't need to tell jokes. He tells a story in a funny way. And he just phrases things in such a funny way that you just can't help but smile. I mean, I think you're going to hear me just laughing in the background quite a bit because I couldn't keep quiet.

[Mike Rowe]

He's funny in a strange way. He doesn't fit. And what makes him interesting is that he doesn't care. He's just who he is. And this kid from a border town between Mississippi and Louisiana has interviewed the President of the United States. Yes, the Vice President of the United States, ranking senators. He's an American original. In fact, it probably would have been more respectful to call him that in the title. But since he invoked a troubled white, we can quote him directly. This is Theo Vaughn. He is, by his own admission, a troubled white. And he'll prove it right after this. Dumb. He's not like the other celebs, you know. But it occurs to me that Theo Vaughn, like so many other guests on this podcast, is a true American Giant. What he's built with his own massive podcast and his comedy tour and his advocacy for people struggling with addiction and his whole unlikely overall rise to fame, it's not just a monument to hard work, it's a love letter to reinvention and to the American dream. I could say the same thing, of course, about the men and women who work for American Giant. I mean, the sewers and the cutters and the dyers who make American Giant clothing right here in America. For nearly 16 years now, they have been delivering on a pledge to make all their clothing right here. And today, I'm delighted to tell you that they've not only honored that pledge, they're helping Microworks train the next generation of skilled workers by selling Microworks T shirts and zip sweatshirts to benefit my foundation. I'm so delighted by this. Go to american-giant.com mike wherever you find the MRW logo, you'll know the net proceeds of that purchase will help fund our next round of work ethic scholarships. While you're there, check out their whole inventory quality sweats and tees and jeans and all the other [e-mail] Mike. Go there. Buy something awesome. Even if it's just a simple American made tea to benefit the Microworks foundation, the quality is second to none. You'll love them. Use code, Mike. Get 20% off your order at american-giant@.com Mike. American Giant. American made. American Giant. American made.

[Theo Vaughn]

Mike. Thanks so much, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Are you kidding?

[Theo Vaughn]

So cool.

[Mike Rowe]

It's so crazy, this world that we're in. You more so than me, probably, but the business of being a guest on a podcast, if you host a podcast, it's part of the bargain. I didn't really understand that when I sort of Forrest Gumped my way into it, but what is it, quid pro quo?

[Theo Vaughn]

I think it's pretty understood. Kind of you want to be supportive of your friends podcast. I think there's people sometimes that you want to have conversations with. So, yeah, I guess sometimes it's a trade off.

[Mike Rowe]

Like, why did you call me? And just so people know, this is over two years ago, I happened to be in Nashville. Full disclosure, I. I had heard your name. I didn't really quite understand.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Who you were or what you were doing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I was just another troubled white, you know, and I would think I was having a tough week and I was like, oh, I know who troubled whites reach out to.

[Mike Rowe]

I can help Mike Road. How are you going to help?

[Theo Vaughn]

No, I mean, obviously I knew so much about, you know, I worked on a farm growing up. Not forever, but I worked there for two summers and in Louisiana, Right on the Louisiana and Mississippi line over there, like outside of like Faraday, Louisiana, which is, I think, where Jerry Lee Lewis is from. But so anyway, you know, people then would like, talk about, you know, episodes that they'd seen, like, you know, different stuff that they'd witnessed or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

So Louisiana was very good to Dirty jobs.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You ever been down a cutoff?

[Theo Vaughn]

No. I knew a girl from there, though, and I quit knowing her. Thank God you cut it off. I mean, I guess I did. I think it's a lot of ex wives down there, you know. It is.

[Mike Rowe]

It's part Everglades, part redneck Riviera. It shot through with the level of consequence. Like, I knew an alligator farmer down there named Jerry Savoir, and it's such a kick. I mean, you travel everywhere, but when you get into a town that you've never, A, you've never been to and B, you didn't know existed. And then you meet a guy who raises alligators and then you're in like a homemade helicopter and he's flying you around and you're throwing spears with EPIRBs and radar guided stuff into alligator nests so you can come back in an airboat and rob the eggs. Like all the. Yeah, it all Happens very quick, and it's very consequential because you can be cut in half and cut off easy. You can be bit right in half.

[Theo Vaughn]

What is an epirb?

[Mike Rowe]

An EPIRB is an electronic something beacon. Check it out for me, Chuck. It's an acronym. All boats have them. If you go, say on Deadliest Catch and you fall overboard and you've got a survival suit on, there's an EPIRB on your suit. So it sends out some sort of signal that lets people at least get close.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, like Ricky's drowning or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

Ricky's drowning, and the water's 38 degrees, so we got to get there in about three minutes.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yeah. Emergency position indicating radio beacon is a device used to alert search and rescue authorities in maritime emergencies. It transmits a distress signal on a designated frequency.

[Mike Rowe]

There you go.

[Theo Vaughn]

Why would you guys use that from the air? Just like a locator to come back.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I think the Coast Guard first introduced them because, you know, up there, guys are overboard a lot. You really don't have much time. If you're in a suit, you can survive for a while. But it's like the most desperate thing you'll ever see is a Jayhawk being scrambled. Right. Filled with coasties who are deployed in the middle of the night because a boat went down somewhere off the Pribilof islands, and the EPIRBs are going off, and, you know, you got dudes in the water.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And it's just. I mean, it's just, you know, it's intense. Anyway, I'm sorry. There's another white boy in trouble. There you are on the border of Mississippi and Louisiana.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And I think your show just always made people feel like I was doing hard work even if I wasn't. You know, it was like I'd even, like, clock out at the end of your show. I'd be like, oh, shift's over. That type of stuff, you know, or something. Or yell at my fictional wife or something, you know, or just slam a door and just, like, scream out the name of a TV dinner. Just that kind of shit, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, you know, when I first met you again, just so people understand, I'm in Nashville. I'm meeting, I think, John Rich and shooting something. And my office calls and said, yeah, this guy Theo, here's the address. So I get over to your place, and I don't know how long you'd been living there, but, like, you answered the door like you're in a bathrobe and your boxers, you're like, hey, come on in. I'm like, oh, God, what is this?

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, Kevin Spacey's here, huh? No, I think I just was running late. I've always run late, you know, or the clocks, they. A lot of these clocks are. They're fast, huh?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, what's going on in the solar system now? What is it, the lion thing? The lion's portal or something?

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, the portal was just open. There's a cosmic. I'm going to totally botch us, but I know it's a cosmic time where there's some alignment, I think in Orion's belt, the lion's portal is open. It's like the hottest time of the year. To get out there and manifest to, you know, just to kind of shake your chakras for the Lord out there in the moonlight kind of. And so somebody sent me a link to it the other day. And so then I'm just out there manifesting and just like, explain what that means to you.

[Mike Rowe]

Like, when you manifest a thing. Has it happened in your life before?

[Theo Vaughn]

I will say this. I felt good the next day, but that could have been. It could have been from Peptides. I was on. It could have been different things, you.

[Mike Rowe]

Know, like, when I say it, like, I try not to exaggerate as a rule. Really, as a rule, I never exaggerate. I mean, there are things that I feel confident are going to happen that haven't happened yet. And sometimes I'll say they've happened because I actually believe that saying they're going to happen. And I'm not a big supernaturalist, but will in some way reframe the world order. Like, my whole foundation was based on. I just started talking about it before I had.

[Theo Vaughn]

It works, you mean?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, Microworks started and then I started. I mean, and this sounds kind of gross, but I. I was saying we awarded a million dollars in work ethic scholarships before we had. I felt like we were gonna. That year. And we did, right?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And so, I don't know, there's just occasions where you say a thing out loud and all of a sudden it's made real.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, I think, like, there's definitely. When I think back in my life, there's been things that I think it felt that way, but I think it's almost. You feel like if you would have said them at the time, we'd feel kind of egotistical. Maybe like just little daydreams or something.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But it kind of makes sense. Like, say if you had like a piece of metal and you loaded it up with like, whatever. Like, the one half of a magnet is called, like, one side of it.

[Mike Rowe]

A mag.

[Theo Vaughn]

A mag, yeah. So if you, like.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't know, you got your mag and you got your net, you got your. In your neck, got heads and tails.

[Theo Vaughn]

But it's like, if you stacked a mag with everything, with all your dreams in there, you'd think, like, the way a magnet works, that a net would eventually, if you load a mag up enough. With enough mag, a net has got to come. It's got to fly. Literally, because of the power that would be at the pole that would be in it. At that point, something would fly over immediate.

[Mike Rowe]

You know, so you think maybe on it, like, from a cosmic universal sense. If you look at it through the lens of magnetism, then the argument is there's always a positive pole and a negative pole, and there are times when those poles can reverse, which is going to usher in a level of chaos that the astronomers freak out when they talk about, like, when the. When the Earth's poles. They say when. Because it's going to switch once our magnetic field. Yeah, yeah. I mean. I mean, it's not going to happen today, Theo. I don't think.

[Theo Vaughn]

No, I know that, but I'm just like, my mom's gonna be fucking pissed.

[Mike Rowe]

Look, mine's livid, too. I narrate a show called how the Universe Works, which ought to be called A Thousand Ways to Die, because every single episode talks about either a magnetron or a quasar or a pulsar or a supernova or, you know, it's just.

[Theo Vaughn]

A batch of gay dudes coming and scooping you up. That's one of my biggest fears. I feel like if you're in a park or something, because a lot of gay men are way tougher than they used to be.

[Mike Rowe]

What happened, you think? When did that shift? Because I remember watching. What was the. He and I used to work in a theater years ago.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, you guys.

[Mike Rowe]

No, not that kind of theater. No, it's a movie. It was called Cruisin'.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Oh, my gosh. Hips or lips?

[Mike Rowe]

Hips or lips? Yeah. Yeah. And I remember watching that movie thinking, you know, this is. This is not at all consistent with the image I had of that particular lifestyle, which I don't in no way care to judge or no way on, but. But it was just. I mean, that was a. It was a risky business.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

It was a rough movie.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. Yeah, it was.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's cruising. It's called.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

It's called Cruising. Stars Al Pacino.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Something a Lot of you guys can watch on your lunch break out there. Is it that kind of thing?

[Mike Rowe]

No, I wouldn't recommend it. No. I don't think it's going to help with your digestion.

[Theo Vaughn]

What sandwiches it go with, you think?

[Mike Rowe]

I'd say a hoagie a foot long. Foot long? Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. Well, I got a four inch round, you know, that's the best I can do, dude. Something on a bun over here, you know, but yeah, I think that's when I, you know, like, that's when America really, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

There was something about your world that was just fun. It was kind of fascinating to follow and look and see in all these spaces and stuff like that.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, see, this is how like the wheel of Fortuna spins, man. I'm fascinated by your world. I'm fascinated how this. Would you call yourself Troubled white boy?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, Trouble white.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. A tw.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, tw, right.

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, I know kind of the story. I know it was Road rules, MTV and stuff. And then really, I think, like, what? I'd love to get into you with you. And I want to talk too about the big idea that you and I have been kicking around lately.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, sure, man.

[Mike Rowe]

Let's just save that for a second. I just want people to like you first. I mean, not that they don't already like you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, thanks, dude, because your.

[Mike Rowe]

Your charm is palpable on tv, but, you know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

People just might not be watching. They might just be listening.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I don't know. I think I just feel lucky that this job kind of came along where you can work for yourself with podcasting.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, I had a tough time. Like, I didn't want to count on anybody else for myself. I think that's something that's always just been a part of me as a human, you know, And I think that's kind of what led me, like, into comedy, because it's just you. It's you up there. Your dad can't get you that job. You're fucking rich. Whoever. Some guy can't get you that job, some guy with a mustache or whatever can't get you that job. You gotta get up there, you know, I think that's something. I liked comedy and then I was fortunate that podcasting came along and, you know, it's been kind of a neat. I feel fortunate that this is when I'm alive so that I can, you know, just have this job and it's been fun.

[Mike Rowe]

Theo, you got the. It's like the fourth biggest podcast in the world, man. I mean, that's a crooked line from the border of Mississippi and Louisiana. You know what I mean? That's a crooked line. And I didn't realize it either when you answered the door in your underwear and let me enter your house in Nashville for a chat. Two years now.

[Theo Vaughn]

They were thick underwear. I don't want people think I was wearing something, you know, I mean, whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

I didn't linger. I just was like, all right, well, this is. This is what we're doing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, they were wool. That's all I'm saying.

[Mike Rowe]

Hey, Matt, you know what? Wool is an underrated fabric. You know, it's almost always associated with the winter, but it's one of the most breathable, sensible thing. It'll keep you warm when it's wet, which, if you think about it, it's thoughtful. I mean, from a utilitarian underwear standpoint, it's a. It's an interesting selling point.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, you could be wet and warm. Oh, yeah, I would. I would stop by that. I'd stop by that. Yeah, that's great. You can be wet and warm. All right, I'll take a little. You know, I think that's how I feel about that, I guess. But anyway, I feel like we're talking about nine things at once. And I've had some coffee, too.

[Mike Rowe]

We are.

[Theo Vaughn]

And that's okay, man.

[Mike Rowe]

All right.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what this job is, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

You know what, though? I was listening to you interview Donald Trump when you walked in 20 minutes ago, which really, that was an awkward meet. You know, we sort of hugged and you knocked my glasses off my shirt and then you bent down to get those. I'm trying to introduce you to Chuck. And meanwhile, I got you in my ear. And Donald Trump is talking to you about how to reform the Trial Lawyers Association.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, he said that the lawyer lobby is a really big lobby. I didn't know that existed.

[Mike Rowe]

Massive lobby.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's crazy. And it's got to be the worst one because they have all the lawyers.

[Mike Rowe]

They're very hard to sue. Yeah, you're like, you can't sue yourself.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's crazy, huh?

[Mike Rowe]

Vince Romano used to make boots for a number of well known boot companies. He got really good at it. Then he realized there was a demand for American made, high quality footwear and went out on his own. He launched the Truman Boot Company and never looked back. Today, Truman boots are designed and built from start to finish in Eugene, Oregon, with a focus on using high quality materials sourced from these United States. They are not cheap, but they are awesome. I'm talking about handmade, fully rebuildable boots with Goodyear weld construction. Same way your granddad's boots were made. Vince cultivated a loyal following, made a name for himself with these lifestyle boots. But after learning how few work boots that claimed to be made in the USA were in reality only assembled here, Vince Romano turned his attention to making the best completely American made work boot possible. And so he has. I'm not going to try and sell you a pair by describing them here, but I will encourage you to visit trumanboot.com and take a look at what a true American made work boot is all about. I think you'll be blown away. Use code Mike for 15% off. Try a [e-mail] that's Truman Boot.com. i want to know, are you okay on this?

[Theo Vaughn]

Are you good, brother? Okay, cool.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, he's always good. Yeah, that's Taylor, Taylor's guy on the poster there, right behind me. He worked on Dirty Jobs with me and Somebody's Got to Do it and all these other shows.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, handsome.

[Mike Rowe]

He is handsome.

[Theo Vaughn]

Whatever, dude. I like chicks, you know what I'm saying? Stay away, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

God. Huh? So you're a comedian and you're funny, but now you're an interviewer and now it's JD Vance and it's Bernie Sanders and it's Donald Trump, and of course it's also all the comedians in the world and. And then there's your listening audience, who I know you love a lot.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, a lot of great people out there, probably folks that are similar to you. That's one thing about podcasting, I think, because a lot of times you'll meet the person, you'll be like, I would talk to this person for a long time, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Because they're similar. They're probably. You have to be. Probably have some similarities to people, I think, to, you know, consume them in like a longer format maybe.

[Mike Rowe]

I'd just like to know though, when's the last time you were nervous?

[Theo Vaughn]

That's a good question, actually.

[Mike Rowe]

Not counting today.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, I'll tell you actually, dude, I freaking just forgot about this. I found this freaking bone on the.

[Mike Rowe]

Let me see.

[Theo Vaughn]

Sidewalk.

[Mike Rowe]

You found a bone on the sidewalk and you picked it up?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. You think I'm leaving it out there, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

That's good. In some circles we'd call this evidence.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I have no idea. It was the only one I looked like in a 40 foot radius. That was the only one they had.

[Mike Rowe]

What do you reckon it is? I don't know.

[Theo Vaughn]

It looks like part of the spine.

[Mike Rowe]

Like a vertebrae.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, that's what I would go with.

[Mike Rowe]

You might have found a vertebrae. Where were you?

[Theo Vaughn]

Just right across the street where I was parking. But anyway. Yeah, I didn't mean to bring that up. I just felt it in my pocket.

[Mike Rowe]

I think that's worth ruminating on a minute, you know?

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, dude, we found some bones when I was a kid in these wishing wells. In our town. They had, like, this youth group. It was, like, through church. It was kind of through the church. It was after school, like on Wednesday night. People would meet up and they'd have, like, a religious guy who was like. And he'd play fun games with everybody, but everybody was just trying to sneak off in the dark and kiss or whatever. Or just fucking even just rub their fucking in front of their body against a damn tree or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, it's Mississippi, Louisiana border, you know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. And if they border, I want to, you know, That's. That was my motto. Oh, our states are bordering. We should, you know.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

But it's a good pickup line.

[Mike Rowe]

T shirt, man. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But anyway. Oh, yeah. And then. So anyway, they had this thing where they. They had like six or seven wishing wells in our town. And a group of kids, you'd go clean them out in the summertime because people would put all kind of stuff down there and. And some of it was hopeful stuff, it was wishes. And then some of it was just people would put recyclables or used plates and dinnerware, stuff like that. Stuff they didn't want, luggage, stuff like that. We found a sword out out there. And they had some finger bones one time that somebody found. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Phalanges in a wishing well.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

That's amazing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. That's the only time I've ever found human bones. I have always wanted to find a body. People want. I feel like everybody wants to. Do you feel like that?

[Mike Rowe]

I did once.

[Theo Vaughn]

Nuh.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Mike?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Oh, thanks. It was a big day. It was a big day.

[Theo Vaughn]

Good work, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

And the crazy thing is, a couple weeks after that, I found a mannequin. And I thought, I can't believe I found another body.

[Theo Vaughn]

And you thought it was another body? Yeah, it was just a mechanic in hiding.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, it was actually down where we took our trash every night. And somebody. Not one of our neighbors. We only. We lived on a. Like a country lane and there weren't a lot of people around, so, like, we all knew each other's trash. And it didn't Seem like any of the few neighbors we had would throw a body out, you know, but it. Sure, it was a body, you know, but of course it turned out to be a mannequin. As a sidebar, my. My mother took this thing home and she put it in my bed. And I was about 17, I came home. I think you and I were probably hanging out back as a prank. Yeah, as a prank. Yeah, my mom did.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

She had a sense of humor. Yeah, still does. Still does, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Terrible woman though. I mean she put this thing, put a bandana on its head and tucked it into my bed. I was living in the basement at the time. Time.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, you have a Hell's angel sleeping over or something?

[Mike Rowe]

No, I've just, you know, I. I would come in late and I'd like to. I didn't want to wake them up. There were times I would come in through the window. Well, on the back side of it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know. Yeah. She had this mannequin in the bed and had it tucked in. And I came in, got halfway undressed and turned around. The body was in the bed. I jumped so high, hit my head on the ceiling. Which excited.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Anyway, look, I hope you do find a body one day. It'd be good for you.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's the only body you found? You found a real one also?

[Mike Rowe]

I found a real one, but I. I saw it at about 30ft away. And the cops were there not long afterwards in a stream bed not far from the creek. Wow. I don't know what happened to it, but the best body stories are our friend Chad Pagracki. Chad runs barge up and down the Mississippi and Ohio. He's like self appointed garbage man there. And the stuff he finds.

[Theo Vaughn]

Nuh.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh my God. It's just cash registers with money bodies. I mean like cannonballs from Vicksburg, you know? Yeah. Like the rivers are amazing.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's their big thing up there. They're like, come look at this cannon. You know in like a lot of those Civil War towns or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Don't you want to set the kiddos on this hot cannon or whatever? You're like, this is, this is just a gay bar or whatever. But yeah, there's a lot of Civil War type stuff. We used to go to Civil War reenactments when I was a kid. My father would take me over there sometimes.

[Mike Rowe]

What side were you on?

[Theo Vaughn]

Let's go to a commercial break. I mean, you gotta cheer for the Hunger Team. Don't get a blood.

[Mike Rowe]

Look, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean Louisiana was, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

Gosh Chuck, I don't know if you can find it. I did an episode on Somebody's Got to Do it on Civil War Reenactors.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And Taylor shot it. Where were we?

[Theo Vaughn]

We're outside of Orlando.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, we're in the South.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really? Is it big down there? Because it's. There's some spillover between CWR guys, wrestlers, Ren Fair. There's some people that work all of that.

[Mike Rowe]

What's cwr?

[Theo Vaughn]

Civil War Reenactments.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, there you go.

[Theo Vaughn]

Sorry. And then. Yeah, Ren Fair, those guys. And then.

[Mike Rowe]

Dude, you're talking in acronyms. That means you're fully committ to this. This world.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude, we spent some time over there.

[Mike Rowe]

We went from eperbs to, you know, cwrs.

[Theo Vaughn]

To cwrs. Dude. Yeah. Oh, I'd see them sitting out there eating dirty MREs and sharing spoons and whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

MREs again, that's a meal.

[Theo Vaughn]

Ready to eat, tickling each other and.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, this is a terrific segment, and it really gets into the heads of reenactors on both sides, and you really get a look into the world. But right after we edited and we got the whole thing ready and what happened? Was it George Floyd or was. It was before that, but for whatever reason, everybody got cold feet about. About airing it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Why? Because when? You mean like when the cops killed George Floyd or whatever?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, there was just.

[Theo Vaughn]

Who might think of George Foreman? That's who I'm thinking of.

[Mike Rowe]

How'd he die? Oh, well, I guarantee you he didn't die like George Floyd did. No, George Foreman, I think, passed in a bizarre grilling accident. No, he died recently, I think. Didn't he?

[Theo Vaughn]

He did. Man, I shouldn't have brought it up. I got confused for a second. I hope he's all right.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, but, Mike, the reason that the thing never aired was. I don't think it was on cnn. But you're talking about when we put it on tbn.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

And the reason they didn't want it was because you were rooting for the home team.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, you were for the South, I was.

[Mike Rowe]

You were dressed as a Confederate. I was dressed as a Confederate. I grew up in Maryland. It was a border state. We never really could decide.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, and it's also, like, which conference is better? I don't know. I could see them creating a league out of it eventually, once it kind of loses some of the racial stigma and maybe, like, two more generations. I can totally see that.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. A league. Like, how would it work? What would the rules be?

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know. And I don't know what the game would be exactly, but I could just see that everything, even historic, eventually, over time, it turns in. And I feel like, you know, it makes it where it can become something marketable, even if it's something bad maybe. Do you think over, like, enough time?

[Mike Rowe]

I think you and I talked about this. We were talking about sports in general.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And I think I said, oh, I made a game out of catching horse crap in the air because my chores involve picking up horse crap every day. And it was super exciting to follow them around and try and catch it before it hit the ground.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, so bad.

[Mike Rowe]

So bad right now. That's a ridiculous way to pass the time. And it's probably never going to be an organized. Yeah, you know, sport. But Cornhole is. Darts are. I think lawn darts are too, and horseshoes and bocce ball. So, like, you know, when does an activity go from being a thing you do at a barbecue in your backyard to something that maybe is in the X Games but not the Olympics? Eventually to the Olympics and then organized. I have no idea how to make sense of any of that, but those things come and go. All I know is I was riveted to Cornhole.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's something about it. There's something kind of nasty about it and there's something fun about it. I'm trying to think of what games I like.

[Mike Rowe]

What do you do for fun?

[Theo Vaughn]

I've been sauning.

[Mike Rowe]

Sauna Inc. Sauna Ink.

[Theo Vaughn]

Going to the sauna in the morning.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

I've been getting out of bed early. That's been making me feel pretty good. I'm trying to think of what else I really been doing.

[Mike Rowe]

Manifesting.

[Theo Vaughn]

I have been manifesting. Yeah. I did sit out there, man, and I did. Yeah. I'll tell you about that. Let me. So. So don't forget to tell you. So I sit out there and I just said, like, you know, I accept abundance. I accept possibility. I accept talking to my sister. I accept everything that God wants me to accept. Right. And I don't accept bad thoughts about myself, just things like that, you know, And I just never done it before. You know, I thought about it and you hear about it all the time, manifesting. But I thought it was kind of interesting. And then I wanted to do it again yesterday, you know, I just kind of like had a moment in the day, was like, I want to do that again. So I think something inside of me, it made me feel good, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

What did you think of Tony Robbins?

[Theo Vaughn]

I think he would have. I Think Hogan would have beat him? I think that was my first thought when I saw him, that Hulk Hogan would have beat him. Would have wiped the floor with him, to be honest.

[Mike Rowe]

Dude, that was honestly your first thought when you met Tony Robbins. Yeah, because he's big.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, but he ain't bigger than a Hulkster.

[Mike Rowe]

No, the Hulk's big, Terry.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what I thought, dude. I was like, oh, yeah, you got all your magic, and I'd like to see you take that on the ring, boy. So I thought that was my first thought after that, I thought, man, this guy is. He's very engaging. I feel like he makes the most out of life. I do feel like he makes the most out of his time. He introduced us to his wife and kid. They were really nice. I thought he was. Yeah, he's compelling, you know, and he's kind of larger than life, so there's a lot of, like, things that are right there, you know? And, yeah, I just felt. I felt like he was a neat guy.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm interested.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know him.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I went to one of his things back in 93.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Mike Rowe]

A Date with Destiny. Oh, wow. Hot coals and so forth. I was there as a guest, actually. I got a buddy who's like, you know, Powder. Remember that movie? Got hit by lightning, and suddenly he can do all these. My friends, a human cow, weather honky or whatever. Yeah, kind of like that, except he's got all the Guinness World Records for math calculations. Right. So Tony hired him to come and, like, warm the crowd up in the mornings. I went along as his guest, and that was the first time I heard somebody talk about manifesting. And everybody in the crowd was nodding their head, like you are right now, because they're like, yeah, man, I can really see the power in that. And then all these years later, I saw you interview him. But what you did, man, and this is what I was trying to get at with the nervous thing and with the Trump thing and with all the. All these different roles, you know, you became like a lab rat with him.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know what I mean? Like, you were so willing to unpack and answer candidly the questions he was asking. And that little clip was, you know, viewed millions and millions of times.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I love that kind of stuff.

[Mike Rowe]

I know you do, but that's why you're so hard to nail down, man. I just. It's like comedian, interviewer, podcaster, or troubled white. In the interest of complete and total transparency, I feel duty bound to tell you that I do not use Prize Picks. I'm glad they're sponsoring this episode, but when they asked me if I could personally endorse their product, I was honest. No way. I said I never got into that whole fantasy sports thing. My producer, however, loves that kind of thing and uses prize Picks all the time. In fact, he's won all kinds of money. Chuck, take it away.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Thanks, Mike. Prize Picks is fun and simple to play. You just pick more or less on 2 to 6 player stat projections and if you get your picks right, you could cash in. It's the best way to get action on sports in more than 40 plus states. Withdrawals are fast, safe and secure with venmo, Apple Pay, MasterCard and more. Prizepix also offers injury reboots, so if one of your players leaves the game in the first half and doesn't return, Prizepix won't count it as a loss. PricePix also invented flexplay, which I absolutely love. Love it lets me cash out even if my lineup isn't perfect. That means I can still win even if one of my picks doesn't hit. And I'll tell you something else, Mike.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm sorry, I nodded off.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Prize Picks is the best place to win cash this football season. So download the app today and use Code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup.

[Mike Rowe]

Shouldn't it be Code Chuck?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

It really should, but it's not. It's code Mike. That's 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup.

[Mike Rowe]

Keep your eyes on the [e-mail] Mike, you wear many hats.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I like. I mean I guess I'll always be. I'll probably always be a trouble white. I don't. I don't know if I feel like an interviewer. Interviewing never feels fun kind of. It is nice when conversations get into a place where you can just talk. I do. Like I would sit in therapy all the time and just have it be podcast like. Like I have some moments in therapy that I think are like, you know, like I'm kind of a late bloomer in life. So it's like I'm like learning a lot of stuff that I felt like I probably should have had more of a understanding of when I was young but late. Like I feel a lot of times like a. Not like a kid but I feel very kind of childish energy sometimes.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, and I don't mean that in a weird way or anything, but over the past few years I've kind of noticed that I'm like, yeah, I think some of that's just still passing through me. You know, it just took some years to get out of the, you know, to get out of the magazine, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

No, I don't. What do you mean?

[Theo Vaughn]

The magazine or just like, out of the way? You know, it just took a few years to. To pat, you know, to. Out of the magazine. The clip.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, the clip. Clip. Clip.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Sorry.

[Mike Rowe]

Right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Clip.

[Mike Rowe]

No, I think.

[Theo Vaughn]

But yeah, I do. I love that kind of stuff. I love it when, like, I go to recovery meetings. I just came from one today. I love when people are feeling something. You know, like, in our house, when I was growing up, we couldn't, like, everything was so intense that you couldn't even let your guard down for a second to have, like, a feeling.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Because you were going to be ridiculed or you were going to seem weak or you were going to. You knew that it was going to get you. It was not going to help you. Right. You never had a chance to, like, even your feelings, to kind of process sometimes because you were like this all the time. And so when I get in chances where I get to have moments like that, man, I really treasure them. I really, really love them.

[Mike Rowe]

You're just. You're living it, though, in public in a way that I haven't seen anybody do this yet. Honestly, I pay attention. But, I mean, you're touring and you're a funny guy on stage.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, we do pretty good.

[Mike Rowe]

You do great. And you're interviewing some of the most important people on the planet, and you're being interviewed by some of the more thoughtful people on the planet, and you're talking about things with, like, such candor, you know. And I remember, you know, another clip. And I know I've said this to you before, but I started paying attention to you about a year after we met when I saw a caller came through.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, I remember you telling me about this.

[Mike Rowe]

And this guy was, you know, he was struggling, man, he was back on his heels and he was nervous because he was talking to you. And you let him talk for maybe 15 minutes.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And I couldn't believe it. Honestly, it defied what you would expect somebody to do in that quasi live format. But you just let him talk. And what got me were the comments under that video from thousands of people who learned or felt or connected so much from watching you listen. And that's, you know, that's an interesting set of muscles you got.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, thanks for checking that out, dude. I, you know, My brother, like, a few years ago one day, I was having, like, the worst day. And we're just similar growing up. We just had, like, you know, it was just so intense growing up. You didn't even develop, you know, you just didn't even develop when you were young. You just didn't. I don't know. Nobody in our family did. None of the kids did, really. And so you had an older brother? Yeah, I got an older brother. He's two years older than me. And then one day, I was having a tough day, and I was sitting in my truck. It was in Nashville, and I pulled over, and I was just balling, dude. I was just like. I think I was just kind of at my wit end. Everything just felt impossible. Just that kind of moment, you know? And he was just like, hey, man, if you want, I'll just sit here with you for a little while, you know, like, we don't have to say anything, you know, I can just sit here with you and just be here with you, you know? And. Yeah, and when he said that, dude, I just, like. I mean, I think tears came out of my metatarsals, you know? Are this feet?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I believe they are.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I mean, it was just, like, stuff just because in my life, nobody said that, like, hey, I'm. I'm just going to be here, and that's it. Right? Like, there was no other part to it, you know, and it was just a powerful moment for me. So sometimes there are moments, like. Anyway, all I'm saying is I learned little things from my brother, and sometimes if there's days or moments where I'm even like a tenth of what he's been for me, then that's where some of those, like, kind of little moments come from. That's why I think I care about that kind of stuff, because when you're in, like, recovery meetings, you. You hear that kind of stuff, you know, and you have. You hear people like that have just stuff that's real, you know? And so I really love that. Anyway, I'm kind of rambling.

[Mike Rowe]

No, man, look, I'm super interested about. I don't know a lot about aa, but I know a fair amount about celebrity, and I've always been interested, like, what is it like for you and what is it like for, like. Because you can be in a town you've never been into, and you can show up at a meeting. What's the dynamic like, when you walk in for people who know you? And, like, anonymity is such a big part. I Mean, it's in the title of the whole organization. You can't be anonymous if you're Theo Vaughn. And yet there you are.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I think sometimes it's interesting. I used to think about it. I can tell, like, if I'm worried about that when I walk in there, then I'm not doing well personally. Right. Because I'm more like in the, like, what's my needs and my image, that kind of stuff. But if I hadn't gone to meetings in a long time and I go in, or if I'm in a new city, like, whenever I moved to Nashville, I was, like, worried about that at first, like. Or just, like, I guess concerned. And also, you're going into meetings in a new place, so that feels interesting. But you can kind of map out what's going on, you know? And then also, we're all in there because we're. Something's wrong or, like, something's awesome about us. But also had drugs and alcohol involved with it. And so, you know, we're all kind of on the same page. But there's been moments where people like, yeah, I guess we want to take photos. I'm at meetings, and so I usually just kind of say, you know, I don't do that at meetings or something like that. To kind of keep it cool.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But then I'll try to check in with that person, too. So I don't want them feeling, you know, like a bummed out or something, you know, because alcoholics get their feelings hurt easy sometimes. So it's like, you know, I think it's probably unique for them and unique for me in some type of way. And not everybody, but sometimes. Sometimes you go to meetings and nobody knows, dude, there's some guy in there. There's a guy. And I think there's a meeting I walked into once, and I don't even know. I didn't go back in. But it was just one dude in there, and he could have been dead. It was an old guy. I was like, I'm not checking if that, you know, I was like, I'm not EMT or whatever, you know.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, there's the body you were looking for.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know I should have stayed. I still think of it. He had his shoes off.

[Mike Rowe]

How important is it?

[Theo Vaughn]

Like, dying with your shoes on has to suck, right?

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, it would depend what you're doing. What.

[Theo Vaughn]

Who wants to have their shoes on forever?

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, well, I mean, yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Imagine you have your shoes on in heaven and somebody has their shoes off.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, somebody didn't get the memo. There's an old song. Died. He died with his boots on.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, famous unlucky dude walking around in boots forever. That would. It would piss me off.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm not sure that's how the afterlife works, for sure. I mean, you might be right, but I think you're basically transformed. You know, it's not your whole. I don't think your wardrobe goes with.

[Theo Vaughn]

You, but I think you still know how it feels to have shoes on your feet. And you die with that feeling. And I think that that stays with you.

[Mike Rowe]

You do? You.

[Theo Vaughn]

I do.

[Mike Rowe]

Well.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I would hate that.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Unless it's cold, you know, you want to be barefoot. What if the terrain is rocky? I mean, I'm sure heaven is not typically imagined as a rough terrain. Chilly place.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I wonder what kind of land they have up there.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Milk and honey is what I've heard.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really?

[Mike Rowe]

Well, the land of milk and honey.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Exactly.

[Mike Rowe]

Is a thing.

[Theo Vaughn]

So you fellas have been friends for a long time, huh?

[Mike Rowe]

I've never seen this guy before.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

First time.

[Theo Vaughn]

How long?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

44 years.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, my God, you perverts.

[Mike Rowe]

Dude. No, we were in high school.

[Theo Vaughn]

Know somebody for that long? Dude. Meet somebody else, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

I know. I'm trying.

[Theo Vaughn]

I.

[Mike Rowe]

Believe me, I'm trying. I know. It's like out of the house, like stepping in gum, man. I can't shake it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Have you guys ever been on a double date before?

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, yeah, yeah, we went on a double date.

[Theo Vaughn]

With twins or regulars.

[Mike Rowe]

Regulars. We went on a date. Was. It was. Oh, dear. Can I say it?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah, it was Danielle and Terry.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

That's right. It was Danielle and Terry.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

And until it wasn't.

[Mike Rowe]

That's right. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's your ex wife.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, no, no. God rest her soul.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, someone passed away.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Oh, no, she's just dead to me. Oh, thank you. I'll be here all podcast.

[Mike Rowe]

She died with her boots on. And the spurs.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I kid, I kid. I kid, I kid.

[Theo Vaughn]

We're just kidding. Danielle and Terry. Terry's your wife.

[Mike Rowe]

No, no, that's not true. I haven't seen Terry in years.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really?

[Mike Rowe]

But she. Yeah, but that was a. I'll never forget that night.

[Theo Vaughn]

Where did y' all go?

[Mike Rowe]

Never forget. No one will.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

We went to Danielle's house.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, in the basement, you creeps. I know what we all doing, all right?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Just, you know, this is talking.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah, we were just talking. We were having a chat, but we.

[Theo Vaughn]

All boozing on there, playing a game. Like, what was, like, the setup. Was there a reason? Like Was it movie night? Was it just kind of like, was it movie night?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I don't recall any photographs being taken.

[Theo Vaughn]

Creeping me out now. All right, just tell us what happened. Are these women okay? That's what I want to know.

[Mike Rowe]

I sure hope so. Yeah. I haven't talked to Terry.

[Theo Vaughn]

Let's bring her in right now. She has a tattoo of Mike Rowe on her back. I'm just joking, Terry. And that's. And that's insane.

[Mike Rowe]

Terry was good. You know what's funny?

[Theo Vaughn]

I hope she's doing good.

[Mike Rowe]

There's another night, but I. I brought Terry back to my parents house. I'm still living in the basement. Very place where the mannequin was waiting for me when I crawled through the windowsill.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. Sounds like a John Irving novel or something.

[Mike Rowe]

Are you a fan of Irving, by the way?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Prayer for Own Meaning. Oh, Hotel New Hampshire.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Oh, Setting Free the Bears, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, good. Oh good.

[Theo Vaughn]

My favorite author. First book I ever read, like as an adult book.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Was the World According to Garp. That was.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, me too.

[Theo Vaughn]

That got everybody in.

[Mike Rowe]

Garp was early. Well, that was done in like 80, 81 or 82, I think.

[Theo Vaughn]

It was so good.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Always wrestling. He sound like Irving was a big.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wrestler with Exeter and stuff like that. And the bears and the neighbor's dog and just the way he likes put life together and stuff. For some reason it just. I absorbed that. Really good. He just put out a book about a year and a half ago that I got. It was kind of hard to read. It was just a lot of words. I don't like that. I used to date a real chatty girl and I fucking. I do not like a lot of that.

[Mike Rowe]

Hey, Chuck, see if you can find the last paragraph to A Prayer for Owen Meaney. It haunted me. Yeah. The book is called A Prayer for Owen Meaney. It's by John Irving. And I wonder if the last paragraph exists. I wonder if you could read that if it does.

[Theo Vaughn]

And they made a movie called Simon Birch. If anybody ever got to watch that movie. That is a neat movie too.

[Mike Rowe]

That's the Owen Meaney take. Yeah, essentially.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's cool, man.

[Mike Rowe]

So I bring Terry back to the house.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And Terry was voluptuous. Yeah, She's a beautiful, beautiful woman. But she looked like a movie star. And she looked. She looked like a. Like a mature 35 year old, like.

[Theo Vaughn]

Kate Thurzen or something.

[Mike Rowe]

Movie star. Just.

[Theo Vaughn]

Who's Kate Thurton?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I have no idea.

[Theo Vaughn]

Him. Me neither. Oh, God, please.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Oh, I can't Work this thing.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh yeah, yeah. You got to get the whole last paragraph, not the last line. And this is a spoiler alert, by the way, if you haven't read A Prayer for Owen Meaney.

[Theo Vaughn]

Do you use perplexity?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, what is that?

[Theo Vaughn]

Perplexity is a cool AI.

[Mike Rowe]

We just live in a constant state of it. As you may have heard me say several thousand times before, we need to close the skills gap in this country and we need to do it stat. I hate to be an alarmist, but There are currently 7.6 million open jobs out there, most of which don't require a four year degree. And currently 250,000 of those jobs exist within the maritime industrial base. These are the folks who build and deliver three nuclear powered submarines every year to the US Navy. And there's a real concern now that a lack of skilled labor is going to keep us from building the subs that need to get built. On the positive side, there's a growing realization that these jobs are freaking awesome. I'm talking about incredibly stable AI proof careers just waiting for anybody who wants to learn a skill that's in demand and start a career with some actual purpose. Additive manufacturing, cnc, machining, metrology, welding, pipe fitting, electrical, all of it is spelled out for [e-mail] that's where all the hiring is happening and you really need to see it to get a sense of just how much opportunity is out there. That's buildsubmarines.com come on and build a submarine. Why don't you build a [e-mail] Anyway, my mom and dad are in bed and the light's on in the room.

[Theo Vaughn]

In their room.

[Mike Rowe]

In their room.

[Theo Vaughn]

And have they met Terry before?

[Mike Rowe]

No, no they haven't. And she wanted to use the restroom and I wanted to, you know, send her home with a bottle of water and so forth. She had left her car at my parents house, so it was just kids. Anyway, I knocked on the door and opened it up and my dad's lying in bed, he's reading, he's got the glasses down on his nose. My mom's reading too. And I said, oh, I just want to introduce you to Terry. Real quick. Terry steps in the room and like the light's coming down from above and she's illuminating. It's like Glenn Close in, what is.

[Theo Vaughn]

It, Field of Joy, Family man or something?

[Mike Rowe]

No, she's just rating and beautiful and voluptuous and my dad still laughs about it. She's just like you walked her in There. And she just stood there by the bed and smiled. And I looked at you, and your mother looked at me, and we looked at her, and then we all just kind of looked at you and said, how in the world. What's going to happen next? And then you just excused yourselves, closed the door.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow.

[Mike Rowe]

And we've really never spoken of it since. It's really none of their business.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I don't think so, But I think it's nice that they were willing to let you guys stand in the room for a minute. You know, I think that's. Where were they in bed?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. That's bizarre.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, it was. It was odd. It was like 12:30. I was short, but I saw the light on, which means I knew they could hear me. And the whole business of sneaking in.

[Theo Vaughn]

Like, you want to be sneaky, don't.

[Mike Rowe]

Want to be sneaky.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, sneaky's the worst. Dude. I freaking met this lady at a car wash one time. Anyway, it was Tucson, so everything there is a car wash, but I met a woman there, and then in the morning, she ended up sitting. Staying over at my freaking house when I was at my mom's house. And. And in the morning, I went in the kitchen. I was like, guess what, Mom? She's like, what? And I was like, remember that lady from the car wash? And she's like, yeah. I was like, she's here. And she's like, you are fucking kidding me. Does Charlie know? Charlie was her husband. He was in the war. And I was like, I don't know if Charlie. I don't. She's like, charlie cannot find out. So we had to sneak this lady out of the house. It was so hilarious.

[Mike Rowe]

How old were you?

[Theo Vaughn]

Probably 34.

[Mike Rowe]

Really?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You were. What's the word? You were emancipated at, like, what, 14 or something?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Got out there pretty early. Kind of a DIY guy, you know? Yeah, I think I was kind of a DIY guy.

[Mike Rowe]

Your dad had you late in life?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yep. My dad was 70 when I was born, and. And they were. My dad was an older man and pretty cool, though. But he had, like, another family of, like, kids that were. Well, he had some earlier children, and they were pretty well off, and they didn't want anything to do with us, and we were just this kind of. You know, it was tough for him to be a dad as he got older. Yeah, you know, it was. It's kind of weird to watch that, I think, as a kid. And how I wonder sometimes. I still don't even Know how that formed, how I thought about stuff.

[Mike Rowe]

Do you think that's why your brother was so influential, being a couple years older than you?

[Theo Vaughn]

I think there's moments in the past couple years where I felt like my brother, in certain regards, embodied some of the dad I didn't have, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But he also, I think he was also conscious to make sure that he stayed my brother. Like, it didn't get in, like an uncomfortable space or something, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

They're good guinea pigs, older brothers.

[Theo Vaughn]

They are. Oh, dude, shout out to older brothers, man.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

They take all of the shrapnel. They take all of the bullshit. They take your parents best shots usually.

[Mike Rowe]

Yep.

[Theo Vaughn]

And they, Some of them are drug addicts or whatever, felons. Some of them are good, but all of them are out there on the front lines of a family's existence.

[Mike Rowe]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

And that is a, that is a real thing in the world that does not get shouted out enough.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't think so either. But you're the thing your parents are practicing on. You're. They're figuring it out with you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Theo. Mike is the oldest brother.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, he is.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

He doesn't have an older brother.

[Mike Rowe]

I, I, I would have loved to have an older brother. I would have been amazing.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know.

[Mike Rowe]

But I didn't.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. You get to see the things your brother didn't do well or did well or something like that, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But then what if your brother's absol. Like, my brother was certainly. I looked up to him for sure. But, like. But yeah. I just wonder, like, what if your brother was like Michael Jordan or something? Would that be tough? I wonder.

[Mike Rowe]

I think maybe it would. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Unless you hate playing basketball and you'd be like, ah, fuck it.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't know. I mean, my brothers and I are all very different, but I do have one, I think, that is kind of adjacent in, like, to this career, this industry. And I think I was probably, you know, like, what happened with Dirty Jobs and everything was probably fascinating to watch. I mean, think about the guys you grew up with, you know, I mean, the fact that you got out of that town, and I think it seems mystical to some people, you know, you must be a source of great mystery to a lot of the people you grew up with there on the border of Mississippi, Louisiana. See you out there now.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, well, that's where I spent the summers. I grew up down in Covington, Louisiana, which is a little bit north of New Orleans. It's A nice place. And tallest statue of Ronald Reagan, if you want to look that up.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, in Covington.

[Theo Vaughn]

Mm.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, that's something you gave up on the Owen, meaning last paragraph thing.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

You can't get it. It's got a. You gotta buy them.

[Mike Rowe]

Got a copyright. Buy the book real quick. Okay.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know if that. And I want to call him out. I just.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, you call me out. Go ahead.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know if that's true.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay. Do you find that hard to believe or not? And I'm not judging anybody.

[Mike Rowe]

I don't. I think it's highly unlikely that anything ever written can't be found on the Internet with the proper search. I just think it's highly unlikely. Okay.

[Theo Vaughn]

God, I wish we were down there with Danielle and Terry, man.

[Mike Rowe]

That'd be something. Boy, it was a. It was a simpler time, Theo. It was before you were born, man. It was probably 1981. 2.

[Theo Vaughn]

Did y' all have deodorant then?

[Mike Rowe]

No.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

No, dude.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Deodorants for.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, dude. It should have been back then, I bet. That's crazy time, dude. I bet the freaking. The. What's it called when you take care of yourself or something?

[Mike Rowe]

Responsibility.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Personal hygiene.

[Mike Rowe]

I bet the hygiene.

[Theo Vaughn]

Personal hygiene was crazy back then. So it was loose.

[Mike Rowe]

It was loose. There was a lot of patchouli in the air. There's Reagan down there in. In Covington.

[Theo Vaughn]

He did not come. Oh, they sent dole down there.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, yeah. That's huge. He was enormous. Look at the size of that guy.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's not even in Covington, I don't think. Is it?

[Mike Rowe]

I don't know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Not at. Somewhere else. Somebody might. They might have did that.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Is it the wrong one?

[Mike Rowe]

Did you just Google the legend? Statue.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Tallest statue of Ronald Reagan is what.

[Mike Rowe]

I googled in Covington. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Somebody could have beat us.

[Mike Rowe]

You know, it's exactly the kind of thing that's fleeting, man. One minute you're, you know, on Rushmore, and then you're off.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. All right. Not that he was ever on Rushmore, to be clear.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Stand by.

[Theo Vaughn]

I'll get this out of here. You know, one thing that I saw that was interesting recently was they had. We went to Mount Rushmore not long ago. We had a show in. Up in the Dakotas. A couple shows up there, and we went on over to Mount Rushmore, and there's another face, a native face, that's on the other side of that crazy.

[Mike Rowe]

Horse just down the road, and they've.

[Theo Vaughn]

Never finished building it. Yeah, they were Supposed to finish building it.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

The fact that they didn't even. They took all the land from those people.

[Mike Rowe]

They're still building it. Gorchak. What's his last name? Taylor.

[Theo Vaughn]

He passed away. I think his son is handling it. Maybe, but the fact that they.

[Mike Rowe]

It's like you had 13 kids.

[Theo Vaughn]

They should have done it then.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, 13. That's partly why he had so many kids. Wow. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Rowe]

We tried. I wanted to shoot an episode at Mount Rushmore. I wanted to do, like, a dirty job. I wanted to sandblast Jefferson's nose.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, my God. Yeah, right.

[Mike Rowe]

I thought it'd be a really fun way to look at history and get people, you know, maybe interested who otherwise wouldn't be. And, you know, that's a federal park. It's a federal property. And the feds are like, absolutely not. We would never, ever consider letting somebody film, like. I mean, like. I mean, I think I offended them, and I didn't mean to. But we reached out to Crazy Horse, like, a week later, they rolled out the red carpet. They gave us a whole tour of. I met the surviving kids, rappelled down the face of. I mean, that thing's gonna. It's gonna take another 50 years to finish that thing. Yeah. The work has never stopped. They've never taken a penny of federal money.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, the work has never stopped.

[Mike Rowe]

No, no, they're still doing it. They're still doing it.

[Theo Vaughn]

But what. How long have they been doing it for?

[Mike Rowe]

I think they started in the. Yeah, it's close to 70 years.

[Theo Vaughn]

But how long did it take to finish Rushmore?

[Mike Rowe]

About two weeks? No, no, it took much longer than that.

[Theo Vaughn]

That was like a hundred years, huh?

[Mike Rowe]

No, no, no.

[Theo Vaughn]

So what's the hold up there?

[Mike Rowe]

We've moved on from Reagan. You got Crazy Horse in there somewhere.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

God bless America. All right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know what, man? Who's your Jamie? You got to have it. You got a Jamie?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, we got a guy named Zach and Nick.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

We have two guys and Nick. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You met Zach. He went over to your place. Did you know that?

[Theo Vaughn]

See what it was like?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

They were great, man. They were really great. Showed me everything.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, they're good guys, man. They're hard workers. I feel lucky to be able to work with them.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. 14 years for Rushmore, and it's going to take probably 100 for Crazy Horse.

[Theo Vaughn]

Then. I don't understand. Why is there just not are. We are.

[Mike Rowe]

There's no federal money. There's no mandate.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's the finances.

[Mike Rowe]

It's all Financing. But the guy Gorshak, who started it, he was alone. Like, there's an old video, you guys, if you haven't seen this, it's on YouTube, but it's like. It's all, like, color saturated, the way it looks in the 50s, you know?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And this guy is dynamiting himself. He built the stairs up to the front himself. There it is. Look at that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Makes me nervous.

[Mike Rowe]

Look at that thing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Rowe]

So they got the face done. I worked on the arm, but when this thing is done, the arm is going to go all the way out there.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, they're doing all that then.

[Mike Rowe]

Not all of it, but all the way to the tip. There's going to be. And I think he's. I think he's on a horse. I mean.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Well, I'll get you a picture of.

[Mike Rowe]

What it's going to look like. Yeah, I mean, that's his last name, Horse, Right? So you got to have the.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, they're doing all that. Dude, it already looks better than the one that Miami Heat guy that they did a few years ago. Remember that one that. I think it was Dwayne Wade, maybe. Oh, it already looks better than that. Dwyane Wade.

[Mike Rowe]

Where was that one? In Miami?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I think so. Or somewhere.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, that's what it's gonna look like when it's done.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, my God. So they're basically gonna turn this place into a straight up gay mecca. Dude, are you. Do not put the horse. Dude, that horse looks like it got its hair done with Michael Landon. Dude, you cannot. What are they doing, dude? Actually, you know what?

[Mike Rowe]

It.

[Theo Vaughn]

Put it up there. Turn it into a damn. I want a damn gay, high altitude gay rave, dude. I want people doing poppers up there at 2, 000ft, homie. That's what kind of I want. I want people losing their minds and hiding inside of each other's. Hiding their hands inside of each other's pockets, you know?

[Mike Rowe]

You know what you can fit on Crazy Horse's forehead?

[Theo Vaughn]

Let me guess for one second. Let me think this for like, third, maybe eight seconds.

[Mike Rowe]

I'll give you eight seconds. Like a rodeo.

[Theo Vaughn]

What can you fit on his forehead?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. I'll give you a hint.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, a Fiat. A car.

[Mike Rowe]

Fiat's barely a car, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

I agree.

[Mike Rowe]

The answer is Mount Rushmore.

[Theo Vaughn]

No.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

So that's the size difference.

[Mike Rowe]

You can put Mount Rushmore on the head of Crazy Horse. You can put four faces. Yeah. So that's. I mean, this is. It's the ultimate Sisyphean Quixotic.

[Theo Vaughn]

I love that.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I mean, it's just. I mean, and the guys.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know what it means, but.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, one is a Greek reference. The other is, you know, Cervantes, Donkey tilting at windmills. But this guy, I mean, he worked on it. His. It was his life's work. And he. He knew with certainty he would never see it finished. And his kids probably won't either.

[Theo Vaughn]

If you have 13 kids, they should do it. You would think, but that's easy for me to say. Do we have any update on the children or any of them in recovery or anything?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Oh, no, I'll look.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Good. Don't put your.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

What are their names?

[Theo Vaughn]

We don't know them.

[Mike Rowe]

No, we don't know. I know you worked with them. I did.

[Theo Vaughn]

We don't know kids names. We're adults. Do you? Freaking crazy guy.

[Mike Rowe]

You're a number. Number nine, get in here. It's your turn.

[Theo Vaughn]

Get your pickaxe, buddy. Wow, dude, that's pretty neat.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I'm looking into the mental health of the. The crazy horse guys. Crazy kids.

[Theo Vaughn]

Children. Well, I just want to know if any of them had the ability to get out there and work. I mean, it's just.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

I wonder who's still doing it and what their process is. Do they fundraise? I didn't know. I thought when I saw the photos, it was just the same size. I'm like, you wouldn't think it would take 50, 70 years to get that done.

[Mike Rowe]

No, it's massive. Look, this is. I don't want to talk out of school because she's a lovely woman, but one of the most alarming things that ever happened to me on a set. And this isn't really a set. This is just us in the Dakotas filming. The woman who's in charge of it is like the fifth daughter, and she's very protective of her dad and the family. And. And we're there, our whole crew is there and we're ready to shoot. And I hadn't been weighed and measured yet. Like, she hadn't. She wanted to personally vet me to be up there. Yeah. So we had rigged her Jeep with some cameras because we knew we were going to go for a drive. And so we're ready to start the scene. And she gets me in the Jeep and she takes off without the crew. Like borderline kidnapping. She just runs off with me and she drives me down around in the middle of nowhere, and she takes me to her father's grave. And we sit there. There he is.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

How do you say?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow. What a great name.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Was her name Monique by any chance?

[Mike Rowe]

That might be. That might be. That sounds right. It might be Monique. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

He died in Sturgis. Probably listening to Kid Rock, I bet.

[Mike Rowe]

Probably. What's his name? Bob.

[Theo Vaughn]

Bob Richie.

[Mike Rowe]

You friends?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yep, we. Oh, yeah, we are friends. Bob's a. He's a very nice guy. We actually just went to Hulk Hogan's funeral the other day.

[Mike Rowe]

No kidding.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Speaking of Terry.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. What was that like?

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, it was a lot of things, man. We didn't stay very long. I wanted to stay longer after, I think.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know.

[Mike Rowe]

Did you know Terry?

[Theo Vaughn]

I knew him. He had come to podcast once and then I just knew, you know, And I'd seen him two times after that at different events. I mean, we texted a little bit.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Did anyone get hit with a folding chair by any chance?

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, that would have been interesting.

[Mike Rowe]

At the funeral. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Dennis Rodman had a strong moment. I know he was really. He was pretty heartbroken.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

At the. By the funeral moment, but at, you know, at the actual service, and his son Nick got up and made a nice, like a really cool speech. What you gonna do when Hulk Hogan watches over you? You know, or something like that. Like this kind of watching over idea. I thought that was pretty cool. But there was like all my heroes from childhood. Like, not all of them, but a lot of them.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, in wheelchairs and on opioids or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

Did you watch a lot of wrestling growing up?

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Pro wrestling.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Yeah, because wrestling, dude, wrestling, nwa, wwf. It felt like. It felt like kind of. I almost feel like it felt like poor kids, like it belonged to them. And I don't know if that's a true feeling. It could have just been because in our neighborhood, we didn't have a lot of money and that everybody on our street watched it. Like, we would all, like, be out in the street hanging out, and we would all go home to watch it. Right. And we loved those guys. Like, I mean, it just felt like even as a kid, it gave you somebody to look up to, you know, it's like, even if your life sucked or whatever, if some, you know, if people were just, you know, just shooting up and just hiding from each other in the area or whatever, that you could watch that and you just felt excited about everything.

[Mike Rowe]

Who else was in the world at that time? Like when. When Hulk was at his apex.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay, was.

[Mike Rowe]

It was Andre the Giant.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yep. Andre the Giant was there for sure. And then you had like, Iron Chic you had Hacksaw Jim Duggan. You had the big boss man. Yeah. You still had a little bit of Dusty Rhodes. You had the Steiner Brothers. You had the Bushwhackers. You had Million dollar man, Ted DiBiase. He was down there. You had. Oh, Mouth of the South, Jimmy Hart, Bobby the Brain Heenan. His daughter was there. That was pretty cool. You had Jake the Snake. You had Ravish and Rick Rude, who was kind of like a. I remember him. He's like trans or what? I don't know who. What he was, but he was. He was using something. He was using Harris brand steroids, I think.

[Mike Rowe]

What about the Undertaker?

[Theo Vaughn]

That was later.

[Mike Rowe]

That was later, yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

That wasn't us. Like, I got out of it before that. But you also had NWA you had, like, Sting, you had Ric Flair, you had. Oh, man, there's so many guys.

[Mike Rowe]

When I was a kid, there was Chief J. Strongbow.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, the Von Erichs dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Chuck, see if you can find.

[Theo Vaughn]

Pull it up.

[Mike Rowe]

Me with the wwe. It was called Halloween Havoc. He'll laugh at this.

[Theo Vaughn]

Sorry to be yelling at you, Joe.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, it's quite all right.

[Mike Rowe]

He's used to it, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, we've asked him for some information that he refuses to give us.

[Mike Rowe]

He just won't give it up because it simply doesn't exist on the Internet. It's just not there.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, Epstein, Chuck, over here. Huh? Give us the files. Huh? I can't believe pedophiling is becoming a big thing in America now.

[Mike Rowe]

What do you mean?

[Theo Vaughn]

The government supported or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

What do you really.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, I don't know what happened with all that, but it does seem bizarre. Do you think all that stuff is a ruse? And there was never anything because, I mean, Epstein had charges against him. I mean, it's just. I think the American people have fucking had it with, I think, politicians.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Both sides.

[Mike Rowe]

There's a great phrase in Latin and I can't remember it. I wish I could. It make me sound smart. But translated, it means, though the heavens fall. And I say, let's see it no matter what. Yeah, I want to see it. I really do. I think you're right. I think that maybe had we not been fed such a line of nonsense for so long on so many different topics, we might be able to shrug at this and go, whatever. But it's the straw that broke the camel's back. It's like we've been teased with it. And by the way you're talking about, I mean, that's a real Topic. And some real harm has happened to a lot of kids.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know, not just on that island, but in general.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right. So you're selling. It's almost you saying, oh, we don't support this or care about this in a way that doesn't mean enough to us.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And that's fucking crazy kind of bananas.

[Mike Rowe]

Sorry, but that's me 25 years ago, hosting a wrestling event.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Do you remember what year it was?

[Mike Rowe]

My God, no. Halloween. Halloween havoc. Yeah. Vince McMahon was there.

[Theo Vaughn]

I remember Halloween havoc. When did Halloween havoc start? Would you mind looking that up for us?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

It would be my pleasure.

[Mike Rowe]

October 30th on Halloween. Dude, that's your first hit. Start with October Chuck. And if it's not there, check the. The Portal of Leo or whatever it is. It's gonna be up there.

[Theo Vaughn]

The lion's portal.

[Mike Rowe]

The lion.

[Theo Vaughn]

It actually closed yesterday.

[Mike Rowe]

No. Damn.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

So you give me two more hours, I'll be right.

[Mike Rowe]

And if you can't find that he's.

[Theo Vaughn]

Over there looking at his baby book or something. It's like, what are you doing, dude? Do you have a baby book that your mom made?

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, yeah, I do.

[Theo Vaughn]

What was that thing? Because my mom made those for us. Is that a big thing that parents still do or.

[Mike Rowe]

No, I don't have kids. I don't know.

[Theo Vaughn]

You don't have any children?

[Mike Rowe]

I don't have kids, no.

[Theo Vaughn]

What?

[Mike Rowe]

No.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

October 28, 1989.

[Mike Rowe]

Yep, that's about right.

[Theo Vaughn]

And who fought at the first one? Can you check for me?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Let's see. Location. Philadelphia, main event. The Thunderdome cage match. Ric Flair and Sting versus Terry Funk and the Great Muta.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know who that is?

[Theo Vaughn]

Sounds Asian. I'm gonna go off Asian.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

You know what is on Asian?

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, you know it when you see it. I'll say that this is off Asian, brother. I don't even know what we're talking about. Oh, but dude, there was nothing like that. Dude. Terry Funk, man, what a legend he was. He was also brutal but charming. There was something special about him. I got to end up going to talk to Kevin Von Erich one time, and that was pretty amazing.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

The last Von Erich.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm just realizing, talking to you, man, it's like I've been adjacent to a lot of things, but not really in them. I narrated the Ultimate Fighter. I did all the seasons for Ultimate Fighter. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

For Dana White show.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Previously on the Ultimate Fighter.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, that's you?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah. The one that was on Spike tv. And, like, watching that thing grow as I was Doing it, but not in it was one of the strangest things. It was. Wrestling was like that for me, too. I was always around it, but never really in it, you know?

[Theo Vaughn]

Right. The Contender. Do you ever remember that show?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I remember the Contender.

[Theo Vaughn]

That was good.

[Mike Rowe]

Yep.

[Theo Vaughn]

But Stallone and Rock and Sugar Ray Leonard.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

God, that was fun. What show did you like when you were growing up? Do you remember something that came on that got you just so animated?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I do. And I kind of closed the loop on it. It was the Rockford Files from the park.

[Theo Vaughn]

The murders in the park.

[Mike Rowe]

No, no. Jim Garner played James Rockford. He lived in a trailer not far from here in Malibu, and he solved crimes. His dad was Rocky. His name was Rocky in the thing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Rocky Rockford.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, his last name was Rockford, so they called him Rocky.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, got it.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. Anyway, no James Garner in the Rockford Files. It was very big in the 70s. That's Jim Garner right there. Yeah, he's great. He drove 1977 Firebird. And Jay Leno called me one day and said, hey, come on my show. I'll get you any car you want. And I. I didn't know if I wanted to. I said, I want the original car that, you know he's gonna get you.

[Theo Vaughn]

A car for going on there.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, what you do is you drive around town in the car of your dreams, and Jay interviews you as you drive. Okay, Right. So I said, I want a 1977 Firebird like the one Jim Rockford drove. He went out and found the original Rockford car, the actual car. Wow, that's wired for sound. That Jim Garner drove in the show. And he got the guy to come and bring it. And I drove that thing around for a couple hours with Jay, but that was the show that got me fired up as a kid. I can still hear the. The theme. Man, that's pretty good.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

That's pretty good. He's got it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah. But then it morphs into Sanford Sun.

[Theo Vaughn]

Did you watch something? Did you watch something growing up there, Jackie, or what?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

No, we weren't allowed television.

[Mike Rowe]

It was all hand puppets and interpretive dance over there.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

That was it. Just me and Danielle in the basement wishing Terry was there.

[Mike Rowe]

When's Terry coming back?

[Theo Vaughn]

A Tale of Two Terry's Dude, Hulk Hogan and your Terry. Both Terry's.

[Mike Rowe]

How about that? And acronyms all over the place, from eBurb to what you call the CWRS.

[Theo Vaughn]

CWRS. MREs. I think we mentioned even at one point.

[Mike Rowe]

We did. We did. We did that asap. Tbd. Or pdq.

[Theo Vaughn]

Blm.

[Mike Rowe]

I'll take mine with cheese.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay. Yeah, I like that.

[Mike Rowe]

Why do you. Why do you care about the country in a way that surprised me?

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know. I mean, I can't. I don't know what else I would care about. I guess. I mean, obviously I care about being alive. I care about my family.

[Mike Rowe]

So people know. Last time we talked about, you were wearing an American Giant sweatshirt, coincidentally. And we talked about the fact that I'm friends with the guy who runs that company and a lot of other companies, too. And I had no idea you had a thing for making stuff in this country. And to the point where it's like, you know, we've been talking about, what do you do with your, I don't know, your platform, your influence. What should we be doing? What can we do to elevate that stuff?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, well, I think listening to you and talking and hearing about Micro Works and putting, you know, recognizing that, you know, the country is going to. If we start to build a lot of these AI data centers or if those things start to. If we need more workforce and especially if they're like. Like kicking workforce out of the country or labor force, which. I don't know all the technicalities of that. So I'm kind of just speaking, like, wildly, but you're gonna need, like, people who are trained to be able to do the jobs and, you know, and you were telling me that you. You guys program microworks, help us do that.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, right.

[Theo Vaughn]

You're like 500 something people this year.

[Mike Rowe]

526, I think this year just with just over $5 million, which is crazy because I'm not doing anything different, really, than we have in the last 17 years. But this year we had 10 times the applicants that we did the year before.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's amazing.

[Mike Rowe]

Yes. I mean, something has happened and I don't know, I'm. I'm super interested. I mean, we were half joking. I thought about, you know, the old QVC days and the Wayne's World set and the idea of, like. Like, why does it have to be a big elaborate thing? Why isn't there a dedicated network today where anybody who's trying to make a thing in this country can sit down and have a few laughs and show off their wares, you know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Now that, to me, sounds awesome. I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about. It was like, you know, I think seeing you on QVC and then thinking about, like, you know, I just worry that if we get into a space where people don't have jobs. Right. Or there aren't as many opportunities. Just say we do right? Or even if we don't. Right? Like people. I'm so sick of like corporations making everything and all these conglomerates and stuff. So how do I. If I want to spend my money, how do I spend it to support a family that's across the country, Even across town, right?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And so then we were kind of talking about what if we started like kind of a QVC type of show where we did little installments with different people that made a product. Right? Families. Or a person like this guy makes, you know, these. You make 700 voodoo dolls a year and they're the best, you know, they got the most dark magic in them or whatever, you know. Or this person makes, you know, goat milk soap or something or. I know you had said that there was somebody who made plant pots out of cow crap. There you go.

[Mike Rowe]

Poo pots. Yeah, that's Matt Freund in New Canaan, Connecticut. Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really? Matt Freund is an amazing musician too, I think.

[Mike Rowe]

Is he?

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Well, let's find out.

[Mike Rowe]

Chuck will be back in about a half hour with some non conclusive data. Nothing on the Internet about music. Sorry, We've. We've looked high in the things on.

[Theo Vaughn]

The computer's not even on.

[Mike Rowe]

That's not even a computer.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

How do you spell Freund?

[Mike Rowe]

F, R, E, U, N, D. Yep.

[Theo Vaughn]

I would go with that.

[Mike Rowe]

I believe it's German.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, that was kind of what we're talking about. Like, well, would it be neat if we started to get like, find people who are making stuff and interview them? Almost like maybe it was like Antique Roadshow style.

[Mike Rowe]

See that? I mean, why did you love Antique Roadshow? What was it about it that made it work?

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, there's just something damn beautiful about it. I mean, when you see it. Matt Freund, independent singer.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, it's a musician.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Doesn't have anything to do with the Matt Freund I'm talking about.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Well, yeah, he asked if there was a musician named Matt Freund and there he is. I proved that there. That he is.

[Mike Rowe]

Good work, Chuck.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And then let me see that Antique Roadshow set. God, that set is just damn beautiful. Because I was up late one night and they had some guy pulled up with a damn rare Beanie Baby.

[Mike Rowe]

A very rare Beanie Baby.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, I mean, this was just the damn Princess Diana one and it was missing part of its tail.

[Mike Rowe]

It's the. I'm asking you because I think it's one of the most underrated, underappreciated formats ever. Yeah, it pays off every 10 minutes. Like, when you think about, like, what is it? Where'd you get it? What's it worth?

[Theo Vaughn]

Worth?

[Mike Rowe]

Could be nothing. Could be a lot. We don't know. I mean, it's just a. An hour filled with little cliffhangers, and the people are all just so random and real.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Rowe]

It's a lot. Like, did you ever watch this old house?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yes. With Bob Vila?

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Same kind of thing. Like, old 70s style production. Super simple, nothing flashy, but you got to see, like, a magic trick. Every week. We're gonna make something that wasn't there. We're gonna use skill and material, and it's gonna be great.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

So satisfying.

[Theo Vaughn]

Artie was smashing chicks, too, across the country. My buddy's dad worked with him.

[Mike Rowe]

Did.

[Theo Vaughn]

He said he was just yammin clam.

[Mike Rowe]

Around the world.

[Theo Vaughn]

This old cock. You feel me? Sorry, that's an old wiener joke. But I will say this. No, I think there's nothing better than if I could say if. If you could be like, well, okay, well, how about this? We'll just showcase your product, and then if you're com. If your company can make enough of it or whatever, you know, I guess the products would have to be vetted or the company. The families that are making them.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

That'd be the tough part.

[Mike Rowe]

That is.

[Theo Vaughn]

But then it'd be so cool to know that now there's a family that has a business and they don't have to worry about their. They could. You can start to support one another. Oh, my God, I wish.

[Mike Rowe]

Look at that. Look at that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, she definitely is gonna.

[Mike Rowe]

She's. That's T for 200.

[Theo Vaughn]

She's getting paid. Oh, my God. If you drink out of that, dude. Oh, my. Oh, my God. If you rub on that three times, I bet Princess Diana will come back. We may be good right there, Mike. But I would love to talk about that idea more, man. And I couldn't think of anybody else that, you know. You're like, the pioneer of that sort of so spirit. I think you. Paul Revere, Gary Sise.

[Mike Rowe]

Wow. Paul Revere, Gary Sise, and me and.

[Theo Vaughn]

Maybe Aaron Brockovich are kind of like, you guys are the kind of Americana Mount Rushmore.

[Mike Rowe]

I think that's very kind of you, but look, I think that you could actually tip the scale in a way that I. That I can't, you know? And look, what I mean is like that guy Matt Freund, I don't know what would have happened had I done a segment for the purposes of helping him sell his poo pots, right? But because we did a segment on a show called Dirty Jobs that was really focused on a dairy farm that was struggling because the bottom fell out of the milk market. And I had read about this guy who was heating his house with. With cow shit, right? And it was like, that's.

[Theo Vaughn]

First of all, a guy doing that is a. I mean, that is not a good guy.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, this is 20 years ago. And he's using the whole biodiesel. Like I don't care, but.

[Theo Vaughn]

But that's why you're alone. Fucking. That's fucked up. You're fucking. Say it again, please. I'm sorry to get upset.

[Mike Rowe]

He's. He's heating his house.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, of course this guy is. Dude. Are you kidding me? Yeah, this dude is with.

[Mike Rowe]

Basically he woke up one day, Theo, and realized that the crap his cows were producing was more valuable than the milk. So what he did was he started making these flower pots out of cow crap. And so they would, you know, decompose, and it was built in manure, and so your petunias would grow twice as fast. I mean, he wound up crushing it in part, a big part, because Dirty Jobs showed up and, you know, put him in 170 countries. But I took him on Larry King a year later to tell that story and then he got his stuff in Walmart. So. Yeah, but this is why, like, I think you with your platform. Where are we, Chuck? Are we in the top 200? This little podcast.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Ish.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, I think we are. We get our share.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

He's like number four in the the world.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

That's pretty big.

[Mike Rowe]

I mean, why not just start with your. With your platform? I mean, you probably already have.

[Theo Vaughn]

You mean just having people come on there. Yeah, yeah, I think it would be neat. But I think of doing it as something new.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I think that seems exciting to me. I think obviously, like, you know, you have met so many people and know, you know, a man who's burning shit to stay warm.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, well, sure. And by the way, there are 3 billion people in the world doing that. Do you know that? 3 billion people. Their main source of energy is wood or cow crap.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow.

[Mike Rowe]

Dumb three billion. Yeah, he was just using science to make it a bunch, you know, a lot more efficient. But my point is, I think there needs to be another. There needs to be an entertaining value to it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right. And I think you do a great job of that. I think we. Maybe we could find a neat way to do it. I think. I just. I. It would be something fun to do. Yeah, I think it would be fun to do with you, I think, because our audiences are kind of different, but probably have similar spirit and. Yeah. I don't know. I just. I want people to be able to, if they want to. To be able to have some of their own destiny in their hands if they can. And that's what my audience, I think, has kind of afforded me. And so that's something that I feel like if I could help create for or be a part of just elaborating for other people who want to do that, then. Then I think that I'll be even with life, maybe. Does that make sense or not? Oh, that make any sense? It did.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Yeah. I thought it made.

[Mike Rowe]

Chuck's not listening.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's hard to know.

[Mike Rowe]

I know he's still trying to find Gorchak. That video of him on YouTube is actually worth a look. The video of the guy building Crazy Horse. Oh, it's just amazing. It just looks like an old Wonderful World of Disney video.

[Theo Vaughn]

Watching Dunkirk.

[Mike Rowe]

That's a good movie. That's a great movie.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it's probably one of the best movies. Probably top six or seven movies past decade or five years.

[Mike Rowe]

I loved it. What were you just talking about? This is.

[Theo Vaughn]

Talking about how soon we're going to start that project together, I think.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Or we should think about it, at least. Well, do you think you have the ability or time to do it? I need the ability.

[Mike Rowe]

I think. Antiques Roadshow, Old qvc. Yeah, right. I mean, I'm talking about, like, middle of the night qvc, back where you had entertainment that was mostly unintentional. Right. But people just kind of just love to see the train. Maybe it's going to go off the tracks, maybe it's not.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And you could buy some stuff along the way, too. I don't think anything that's so overtly focused on a transaction has the same appeal as potentially you and me talking to somebody either together or. I'm not sure how it would work, but. But what I know for sure from Dirty Jobs is that the country is filled with people who are doing interesting things that are making things. Yeah, right. Making things.

[Theo Vaughn]

So I like that.

[Mike Rowe]

The question is, how do you celebrate that? And look, Shark Tank is an answer to that question.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You can do it with venture capitalists and you can do it in that world, but your Set reminded me of, like, Wayne's World, which I love. And it's like. I think there's a super modest lo fi way. In fact, the bigger the challenge, like, reinvigorating manufacturing in some ways, the more important it is to come at it modestly, because you could never have a production big enough to fully.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Mike Rowe]

Satisfy that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right, right. And if you get it going in the beginning and it's going, well, small, then you could stay smaller, you could expand. But I think you'd have a good idea, even instinctually then, of what the energy is. But, yeah, I just. I really like that. I really like. You know, my mother's a hard worker. Right. Like I always say, the hardest working man I've ever met is my mother. Right.

[Mike Rowe]

I'm sure she appreciates that.

[Theo Vaughn]

I think she honestly does probably, you know, because she just, you know, she did it herself. And so I think she kind of does respect that. I know she. I know she was a woman, but I do want to say that.

[Mike Rowe]

What's her name?

[Theo Vaughn]

Her name is Gina.

[Mike Rowe]

Gina, you did good. Look at your boy here.

[Theo Vaughn]

She's a hard worker, and I always. I do. I have always admired that she's a hard worker, you know? So. Yeah, I just think, like. Yeah. I don't know if people can. People want to be able to fend for themselves. It's important to them, you know, And I think it's important to the human spirit. And I don't know, I just feel like. I don't know. I think it could get scary if people can't do that. And I feel like people want to be able to help one another and not just keep giving everything to, like, these conglomerates that they won't break up.

[Mike Rowe]

You know what else? I think people need to see proof that other people found a way.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Whether they do or not, they need to see, like, we're products of what we listen to and. And look at.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

Right. For better and worse. Yeah. What's he doing? What's.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know what he's looking at, but look how he is. He's a product of it. He's watching silent films. We haven't heard from the guy. I am.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

I actually am watching the silent film. I'm gonna put it right up here. There you go. There's your crazy horse.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, man. This thing, I encourage you to look at it. His story is so unbelievable. Him, that's 60 years ago with a jackhammer.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow.

[Mike Rowe]

Starting that thing.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's amazing, man.

[Mike Rowe]

See, I think metaphorically, this is A good place to start to land the plane. Because this is what we're talking about doing. If you're talking about reshoring, reinvigorating the trades or like, for me, like closing the skills gap, spoiler alert, I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna try, you know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Mike Rowe]

But it's very much. It's a crazy horse notion. We're not gonna finish it. That's all right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

It's kind of like Band of brothers, you know, Just because you put it on doesn't mean you have to finish it. Although it's happened to me before. I literally spent. I know, the whole day. The whole day went down the tubes because that. That came on.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know. And you order doordash or whatever and you hope. You hope you pick the right food to accompany that sort of.

[Mike Rowe]

What. What does. What does one dine on as we're seeing the liberation of France?

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know, I probably go. I usually go with like fish sticks or whatever, kind of.

[Mike Rowe]

Not French fries. Too on the nose.

[Theo Vaughn]

Too on the nose. But, Mike, thanks, but it would be an honor to try and even think about it together. I appreciate you even just listening to me even think about that. I know, and I know we were talking about it together and just like trying to figure out, I think, like. But yeah, I think people learn that stuff from you and other people that care that other people can, you know. Yeah. We just have. It's the same thing inside of us. We want to be able to fend for ourselves. Right. And so, like, yeah, if we can figure something out to help support that. I mean, you're already doing it, but I know. I feel like there's a way that I can do it.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, there is, man, and I like.

[Theo Vaughn]

To challenge the big guy, you know, the Rogan. No, no. That dude will put me in his cheek like one of those damn Zen pouches.

[Mike Rowe]

Who's the big guy?

[Theo Vaughn]

Big business, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Oh, yeah, yeah, look, Big business will. They'll follow them. They'll follow the audience. But look, my audience is what it is. Your audience. What if it was a League of Concerned Podcasters? An lcp? This is how we really land the plane back. Theo and Mike form the lcp, the League of Concerned Podcasters. We get Joe, we get a couple of other likely suspects, and then we target people who are making things in this country. My friend Josh Montana Knife Company would be great. Oh, yeah, Josh Smith. You know Josh?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I know Josh. I got two of his frickin knives in My truck.

[Mike Rowe]

Has he been on your show?

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Does he take it?

[Theo Vaughn]

No, he hasn't.

[Mike Rowe]

Why hasn't he been on your show?

[Theo Vaughn]

Because we don't really talk about knives that much. A lot of our people are in recovery. You know what I'm saying? We. One thing at a time. I don't know if you get a whole group, though. I don't know. I think because when you try to get too many people.

[Mike Rowe]

No, no. They don't come all. No, no, no. Not all at the same time. But if, like, if out of collaboration, you find a guy like Josh. Okay. Somebody who's capable of scaling.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

And you say, look, the only thing you don't have is notoriety. The more people have your knives, the more people are going to love them. The more people hear your story. Right. And in the end, what can we really do, you and me, is we tell stories and we help other people tell their stories. And, you know, getting. It just seems like identifying people who prove that you can still make it here.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I think that's what this country's founded on. I think it's important. I don't know if that's what this country's founded on. I don't know what I'm talking about with that, but I think that that's important to people. It makes me feel like. I don't know. I just know, you know. You know, when you think this is something that makes you feel like it would keep you excited about life, seeing some family fig, you know, do something and make something and then they have like a thing or whatever.

[Mike Rowe]

That's conviction, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Mike Rowe]

You're convicted. Yeah, I love that.

[Theo Vaughn]

So until you're convicted.

[Mike Rowe]

Well, look, man, I'm old. I'm old, man. I'm doing the best I can. But people also need to know that you can grow up on the border of Louisiana and Mississippi and wind up trying to figure out how to use your considerable influence to leave the world better than you found it. Good for you, Theo Vaughn.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Well, thanks, dude. I feel pretty lucky. I'm just a product of my environment, you know, and a lot of fun people in my life. All I am is just little pieces of them. But I do feel lucky to get to talk with you, dude. This has been a lot of fun. Glad you're here and glad you're still awake.

[Chuck Klausmeier]

Me too.

[Theo Vaughn]

Sorry I interrupt here.

[Mike Rowe]

It's all good. He's watching silent porn.

[Theo Vaughn]

Dude, he's watching highway to Heaven. I saw him earlier. I knew he was a Victor fans fan when I saw that shirt.

[Mike Rowe]

I know you gotta go, but that's the second oblique Michael Landon reference you've made. I know what's going on.

[Theo Vaughn]

I just love him. Can I tell you really fast enough to go, yeah, yeah. And I'll come back another time. I've had such a great time. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate it, dude. I really do.

[Mike Rowe]

Thank you. You're welcome.

[Theo Vaughn]

We had a show in Winnipeg, Canada, and after the show, they. This is like one month ago. They're like, some of the cast of Little House on the Prairie is here because they're re filming the show. And I was like, I had no idea. And I love that show growing up, dude. I'll fucking beat the shit out of somebody who doesn't like it, dude. Unless something's wrong with them and they're mentally unwell and they don't even know if they like it or not. But I loved it. And I got to meet a couple of the actresses. One of them is called Crosby Fitzgerald. She's playing the mom in it. She plays Laura Ingles. Oh, no. She plays Laura's mother, Ma Ingalls. Caroline. Caroline Ingles. So anyway, but when I saw her, they introduced me, I. She says, she goes, you hugged me like I was your mother. And I was like, a, I am very sorry, I do not know you, ma'.

[Mike Rowe]

Am.

[Theo Vaughn]

But B, I didn't even know that I was going to be like that, you know? But yeah, that was our show, man. That was that pioneer spirit.

[Mike Rowe]

Yeah, there it is.

[Theo Vaughn]

There it is.

[Mike Rowe]

That's all we're trying to reinvigorate.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's all we're trying to do. Micro. Thank you so much, dude.

[Mike Rowe]

Anytime. Theo VON Anytime. When you leave a review, which we hope that you'll do, tell us who you are. Tell us who you are. And before you go whoa, whoa, Won't.

[Theo Vaughn]

You leave five.

[Mike Rowe]

Star. Five lousy little star.