Podcast Summary

The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

Episode 454: Amie Ichikawa—You Can’t Bring a Vagina to a Penis Fight
Air Date: October 14, 2025

Overview

In this deeply candid and provocative episode, Mike Rowe sits down with Amie Ichikawa, founder of the nonprofit Woman II Woman, to discuss her lived experiences in the California women’s prison system and her activism regarding the transfer of biological males into women's prisons. Amie, formerly incarcerated herself, shares her journey from troubled youth to inmate, to advocate and Christian. The discussion weaves through her personal life story, the realities of incarceration, SB 132 (California’s law allowing inmates to self-identify their gender for placement), and the broader crisis of women's rights behind bars. The tone is forthright, unsparing, sometimes darkly funny, and underscored by Amie’s mission: protecting dignity for all women in confinement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the Title?

• The episode’s provocative title is a quote directly from Amie:
  • “You can’t bring a vagina to a penis fight.” ([00:03]–[04:55])
• Both Mike and producer Chuck agree it stands out for its blunt truth and encapsulates the essence of the episode’s theme.

2. Amie’s Backstory and Path to Prison

• Childhood in Torrance, LA; father was an LA County Sheriff.
• Entered a destructive relationship at 24, led to drug abuse and a violent crime: participated in a botched kidnapping over $20.
• Arrested, interrogated, and sentenced to five years for terrorist threats and use of a firearm ([09:13]–[18:13]).
• Powerful moment:
  • “I said, okay, I beat her up. Can I go to work? Just totally… You have no idea what you’re into.” (Amie, [15:50])

3. Life Inside a California Women’s Prison

• Arrival and intake at Chowchilla—brutally honest portrayal of strip searches, lack of privacy, and dehumanization.
• Describes overcrowded cells (eight women in a cell built for four), contaminated water, prevalence of trauma among inmates, and the surprising presence of younger women serving life sentences. ([20:26]–[27:49])
• Learnt hard life lessons and self-acceptance from long-term inmates:
  • “It took almost five years of people really pounding that kind of stuff... I really needed, like, a crash course in how to not hate myself and how. How the world doesn’t revolve around me.” (Amie, [27:49])

4. The Introduction of Men into Women’s Prisons (SB 132)

• California’s SB 132 enables male inmates to transfer into women’s prisons upon self-identifying as female.
• Amie experienced this first-hand and recounts a notorious case of a male rapist transferred after self-mutilation to identify as female ([34:58]–[40:33]).
• Notes the repercussions:
  • Loss of privacy, increased power imbalance (male inmates get to pick their rooms, jobs, even access certain feminine hygiene and elective medical procedures unavailable to biological women).
  • “They’re able to pick their jobs. They get free douche... full body laser hair removal, facelifts, breast implants, Adam’s apple reduction.” (Amie, [42:23]–[43:53])
• The emotional and safety toll: “People were crying like, how could the governor let this happen to us? Doesn’t he know we’re all rape survivors?” (Amie, [36:20])

5. Activism and Creation of Woman II Woman

• Amie formed Woman II Woman in early 2021 as a peer-based resource for formerly incarcerated women and to fight for women's space in the prison system ([30:07], [64:44]).
• Describes resistance, being told that programs solely for women were “not even legal” and “putting your life in grave danger.”
• Outlines collaboration with organizations like the Independent Women’s Forum and involvement in state and federal advocacy ([57:03]–[60:16]).
• Shares how reintegration is fraught with trauma triggers and systemic challenges: “I only did five years. What's gonna happen to people who've done 25?” (Amie, [65:09])

6. Federal Prison Issues and Broader Context

• Conditions in federal prison are worse: extreme violence, neglect, medical abuse. ([60:38])
• Noted judiciary issues: magistrate Sarah Netburn’s push to transfer a sex offender into a women’s medical prison, despite opposition from the Bureau of Prisons.
• Advocacy led to Netburn’s nomination being denied.

7. Political Landscape & Call to Action

• SB 132 passed with overwhelming Democratic support, despite warnings from corrections professionals.
• Women in prison are effectively “the losers in every political game,” as their safety and dignity get sidelined.
• Amie’s mission: “No men in women’s prisons. Who is going to possibly want to fight this?” ([69:32])
• The state is now fielding hundreds of transfer requests; over a third of those transferred are registered sex offenders.
• Activists urge public engagement:
  • “Talk to your elected officials…They can’t care about what they don’t know about either.” (Amie, [77:56])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can’t bring a vagina to a penis fight. You’re going to lose every single time.”
  – Amie Ichikawa ([49:15])

• “I thought Amy would be worth listening to. I almost said worth talking to, but honestly, she doesn’t need to be talked to. She needs to be listened to.”
  – Mike Rowe ([01:42])

• “Prison is ground zero for like, human experimentation, socioeconomic experimenting, because…if you want to implement things nationwide, you’re going to start in the prison because it’s an easy place to conduct these kind of things under the radar.”
  – Amie Ichikawa ([31:12])

• Describing the shock among women when men were introduced:

  • “This person brought male prison politics with them…It sent shock waves through the whole population.” ([36:20])
  • “There was this somber, overwhelming feeling of just defeat. People were crying: how could the governor let this happen to us?” ([36:33])

• On NGO and nonprofit industry complicity:

  • “I had no idea how much of a business nonprofit is.” ([30:10])
  • “These teachers are trying to make me think that a cult is only called a cult because it’s outside of Judeo-Christian normatives…I have to worry about this, too.” ([49:15])

• On policy and personal action:

  • “Talk to your assembly person. It’s easy. They’re very accessible. Some intern will take your call...California can definitely afford to ensure that everybody has access to respect, agency, and dignity.” ([77:56], [78:38])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and episode theme discussion: [00:03]–[04:55]
• Amie’s story: crime, arrest, and incarceration: [09:13]–[18:13]
• Prison intake experience: [20:26]–[27:49]
• Introduction of men into women’s prisons and SB 132 explained: [29:19]–[46:09]
• Life after prison and founding Woman II Woman: [64:44]–[69:17]
• Federal prison challenges and the Sarah Netburn controversy: [60:44]–[64:44]
• Legislative action and call to listeners: [77:56]–[79:46]

Final Thoughts & Resources

Amie’s unvarnished testimony brings the complicated realities of the prison system, activist politics, and the vulnerability of women sharply into view. The episode is not an abstract debate—it’s a dispatch from the front lines of policy gone awry, told by someone whose life and mission are shaped by hard-won empathy and experience.

Learn more or get involved:

• Woman II Woman – Amie’s organization for incarcerated and re-entering women. (Roman numeral ‘II’, not Arabic '2').
• Contact your local or state representatives about SB 132 and women's prison issues.

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is unfiltered, often gritty, seasoned with dark humor and a clear sense of urgency. Amie’s voice is direct and compassionate, determined to protect both dignity and truth for women who cannot advocate for themselves from behind bars.

Memorable Sendoff:
“As Harry Bosch would put it, everybody matters or nobody matters.” (Mike, [79:41])