Podcast Summary: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

Episode 458: Johnny Joey Jones—Mind Your Wake

Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Mike Rowe
Guest: Johnny Joey Jones

Episode Overview

In this thoughtful, often humorous, and deeply personal episode, Mike Rowe sits down with Marine veteran, bomb technician, Fox News contributor, and author Johnny Joey Jones. The conversation centers on Jones’ new book “Behind the Badge” which profiles nine first responders—police, firefighters, and others—through stories of heroism, sacrifice, and humanity. Woven throughout are themes of humility, courage, empathy, trauma, perspective, and the power of storytelling. The episode also explores the meaning behind the phrase “Mind Your Wake,” one of Jones’ father’s favorite pieces of advice, and highlights the impact, responsibility, and ripple effect of individual actions on others.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Humor, Humility, and Adversity

• Mike opens with banter about “the one and only” Johnny Joey Jones and quickly sets a tone of irreverent humor and camaraderie.
• They riff on how Jones, who lost his legs in Afghanistan, is anything but sentimental about his service or injuries.
• On humility in storytelling, Jones says the word that defined his book-writing process was “humble” (01:23).
• Notable Quote:

  "If you can fake that man, you got it made." – Mike Rowe (01:34)

2. Elevator Fiasco & Perspective on Challenges

• The two recount the awkward situation of Jones having to walk up five flights of stairs due to a broken elevator, using it as a metaphor for confronting daily obstacles and not complaining.

• Powerful Moment:

  “With more grace and gratitude than my vocabulary permits, Johnny Joey Jones is like, ‘Hey man, it’s just a flight of stairs. I’ll make it.’” – Mike Rowe (14:44)

• Jones discusses how comparing hardships doesn’t help—everyone's worst pain is valid in their context:

  "Never compare tragedy and always share in victory... I'm not going to discount the worst thing that ever happened to you because it doesn't seem like it would be bad to me... I don't live your life." – Johnny Joey Jones (16:17)

3. The Book: “Behind the Badge” – The Power of Profile

• Jones explains the genesis: nine stories of first responders he knows personally—many for decades.
• The distinct power in profiles: the accumulated effect of many individual stories is greater than the sum of its parts, offering layered insights into sacrifice, duty, and the human cost of service (08:45).
• On storytelling approach:

  "The best way to tell a story is to let it tell itself." – Mike Rowe (08:59) "What if I were just Eli Gold? ...What if I just let these folks not just answer my questions, but through our conversation, come up with the next one they're going to answer." – Johnny Joey Jones (10:13)

4. Challenge Coins and Military Traditions

• Jones gives Mike a “challenge coin” associated with the book, symbolizing gratitude and honor among military and first responder communities (05:58).
• He discusses the tension between seeking glory and honoring service, especially in the bomb tech world where attention is typically “frowned on” (06:29).

5. Dispelling Myths about First Responders

• Exploration of outdated public perceptions (e.g., “cops wake up wanting to hurt people,” “firemen just put out fires”).
• Realities include internal struggles, majority of calls being medical not fire-related, and that police rarely draw their weapons in their careers.
• Jones highlights perspectives from his profiled friends—Clay, Keith (firefighters), and Jeremy Judd (Maine game warden)—and how life experiences, class, and backgrounds shape their reasons for serving (25:16).
• Notable Story:
  The trauma of driving one’s own kids to school past locations of previous fatalities dealt with as a first responder (27:13).

6. The Emotional & Psychological Weight of Service

• Exploration of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), survivor’s guilt, and the lack of societal understanding/support for first responders versus military veterans.
• Jones notes America has made progress recognizing combat trauma, but is “at year zero” on doing the same for first responders (42:18).
• Notable Quote:

  "The most surprising and really daunting thing about finishing this book is that I have the Department of Veterans Affairs... I've got... nonprofits... laypeople who understand PTSD... We haven't made it to year zero with first responders." – Johnny Joey Jones (42:18)

7. Courage, Bravery, and Repeated Sacrifice

• Differentiating “bravery” (the first, perhaps impulsive, act) from “courage” (the choice to return, knowingly, despite pain or risk).
• Jones:

  "We're all capable of being brave for a moment. Courage is going back to do it the second time. Courage is knowing not just the consequence, but knowing what it feels like." (35:51)

• Everyday first responders, in his estimation, demonstrate this kind of courage over and over.

8. Empathy as a Double-Edged Sword

• Discussion of empathy as both blessing and curse—essential for the job, but a source of pain.
• Empathic decisions can haunt or save lives; no single “right way” exists—only thousands of split-second decisions (76:14).
• Notable Quote:

  "It's a blessing and a curse, isn't it?... I wish I didn't have it sometimes. I bet these guys and gals feel like life would be a lot simpler if they just didn't care." – Johnny Joey Jones (76:14)

9. Perspective on Heroism and Normalcy

• Rowe points out that the book’s subjects often consider themselves “ordinary people” thrust into extraordinary circumstances.
• Together, they muse if perhaps America is full of potential first responders—none of us know what we’re capable of until we’re tested (32:00).

10. The Hierarchy of Value, Community, and Identity

• Concern over society’s loss of real community and clear roles (the “digital town” vs. physical hometown).
• Jones:

  "My biggest worry is that we lose our identity because we've lost our community. ... If everybody in a town is looking at the world and not their town, the town doesn’t exist anymore." (57:32)

11. Humor as Survival and Connection

• Jones emphasizes the essential role of humor for handling trauma and discomfort, both in wartime and daily life (even poking fun at his own prosthetics):

  “Humor...reminds us how small everything really is. No matter how much it hurts you...it can still just be a punchline for somebody else.” (80:53)

• The book and this very conversation are infused with jokes, dark humor, and camaraderie.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Humility in Service:
  "[Johnny's] the kind of guy that would take off one of his prosthetic legs and hit me over the head with it for calling him...an American hero." – Mike Rowe (00:42)

• On the Elevator Incident:
  "With more grace and more gratitude than my vocabulary permits, Johnny Joey Jones is like, 'Hey man, it's just a flight of stairs. I'll make it.'" – Mike Rowe (14:44)

• On Storytelling and Letting Others Shine:
  "The best way to tell a story is to let it tell itself kind of... I tell people all the time, the most interesting thing about me are the people I know." – Johnny Joey Jones (08:45–09:00)

• On PTSD and Societal Understanding:
  "I've been in search of the answer to this question for a long time...why am I not more effed up than I am? Because my buddies are...It's the butterfly effect. At some point in my life, the right little things happened that changed the trajectory..." – Johnny Joey Jones (45:38–46:45)

• On Everyday Heroism:
  "At some point, this job is going to hit home...physically, spiritually, or emotionally break you. The point of the whole book is none of us can do it. These guys and Gal couldn't do it. They did. Broke them. Something early on in every one of their career made them question...but it's worth doing." – Johnny Joey Jones (31:45–32:01)

• On Courage vs. Bravery:
  "We're all capable of being brave for a moment. Courage is going back to do it the second time. Courage is knowing not just the consequence. But knowing what it feels like." – Johnny Joey Jones (35:51)

• On Community and Worth:
  "I just worry that we're sacrificing so much...now you can be in that same small town and care about what some celebrity couple in LA is doing...You need to create this community around this extra world that doesn't exist in your hometown. So my biggest worry is that we lose our identity because we've lost our community." – Johnny Joey Jones (57:32)

• On the Importance of Humor:
  "Humor... reminds us how small everything really is... when I lost my legs, someone asked me 'how do you stay so positive?'. I say, 'well, how are you ever negative? You have yours.'" – Johnny Joey Jones (80:53)

Segment Timestamps

• 00:03 – 03:25: Introduction, the ‘one and only’ riff, humility of guest.
• 14:17 – 18:12: Elevator story, dealing with hardship, commiseration vs. perspective.
• 25:10 – 32:01: Profiles of first responders, the realities of their jobs, psychology of service.
• 35:51 – 39:09: Bravery vs. courage, why ordinary people return to hard situations.
• 42:18 – 49:15: PTSD, difference in societal support for military vs. first responders, resilience.
• 57:30 – 60:16: Reflections on hierarchy, identity, and community.
• 76:09 – 79:16: The psychological weight, empathy, and the curse/blessing of caring.
• 80:53 – 87:46: The necessity and survival value of humor, especially in trauma and camaraderie.

Concluding Thoughts

Mike Rowe and Johnny Joey Jones’ conversation is rich, unscripted, and layered, blending dark humor with gravity, and anecdotes with wisdom. The episode not only showcases the depth of Jones’ new book, “Behind the Badge,” but also provides insights into the lived experience of first responders, the universal struggle for meaning and belonging, and the fine line between pain and perseverance. It’s a reminder to “mind your wake”—to be aware of the ripples our actions send out, intentionally or not, across the lives of others.

Further Listening

For listeners moved by this episode, reading “Behind the Badge” will deepen appreciation for everyday heroism and give context to the complex, unsung lives of first responders.

Key Takeaway:

“Maybe we are a country full of first responders. Maybe we are a country full of people who can't do it until they have to.” – Johnny Joey Jones (32:01)

(For full effect, listen to the conversation for Jones and Rowe’s characteristic good-natured ribbing, warmth, and candor.)