Podcast Summary
Podcast: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe
Episode: 459: Steven Grayhm—Sheepdog
Date: November 18, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features a deep and candid conversation between host Mike Rowe and actor/writer/director Steven Grayhm, whose independent film Sheepdog offers a raw, authentic look at the realities of post-traumatic stress (PTS) among U.S. military veterans, their families, and their communities. The discussion explores Steven’s 14-year journey to make the film, the responsibility of telling veterans’ stories, the importance of authenticity, and the broader themes of connection, purpose, and healing. The episode is heartfelt, occasionally humorous, and filled with powerful testimony about the complexity and relevance of PTS and post-traumatic growth.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Genesis and Intention Behind Sheepdog
- Steven Grayhm spent 14 years developing Sheepdog, drawing from real veterans’ stories to “hold up the mirror” and tell an unvarnished truth about post-traumatic stress.
- The film’s setting in Western Massachusetts adds to its authenticity, reflecting working-class, small-town America—a cross-section that resonated with many real veterans interviewed by Steven.
Quote:
"If I'm holding up the mirror, I have to be authentic. I can't judge the characters and I have to show the audience the truth."
—Steven Grayhm [09:17]
- The story was inspired by a chance confession from a veteran tow truck driver, which sparked Steven’s sense of responsibility and set him off on a research journey across the country.
- He involved actual veterans and Gold Star family members both in front of and behind the camera to recreate a sense of camaraderie and purpose.
2. Authenticity, Research, and the Weight of Responsibility
- Steven describes the need for absolute authenticity: “One false note and you're dead. The whole song." [10:44]
- He conducted extensive interviews and worked with organizations like the Detroit VA Medical Center and Honor Flight, as well as consulting mental health professionals to ensure accuracy.
- The origin of the film’s most poignant moments—and specific dialogue—comes from real-life veterans (such as the “thanks for your service” exchanges and the scene inspired by Honor Flight homecomings).
Quote:
"...the research didn't stop there... I was able to build their trust. They allowed me in there to role play with their doctors, their therapists, their neurologists... that informed so much of the film."
—Steven Grayhm [35:37]
3. Portraying PTS: From Stigma to Honest Representation
- Steven sought to show that his protagonist, Sgt. Calvin Cole, "is not broken," challenging stereotypical portrayals of PTS.
- He stresses that Sheepdog is fundamentally about post-traumatic growth, not just suffering.
Quote:
"It's not a post-traumatic stress movie. It's a post-traumatic growth movie. You don't have to do it alone... but you have to do the work."
—Steven Grayhm [61:22]
4. The Power of Community, Camaraderie, and Soft Skills
- Both Mike and Steven discuss the loss of veteran communities in the digital age and how initiatives (like filming with real vets) recreate lost bonds.
- They touch on the importance of purpose and routine, and how this can be life-saving for veterans.
Quote:
"Filmmaking... you're working with your hands, you know, and it's a very blue collar job... what I had learned... was a return to the camaraderie..."
—Steven Grayhm [16:00]
5. The Struggle for Awareness and Reception in Today’s Climate
- The Hollywood system was often resistant or indifferent to the project, and Steven recounts being “laughed out of offices.”
- The film’s promotion faces challenges from media platforms’ hesitance to highlight difficult topics like suicide; algorithms and business interests often suppress such content.
Quote:
"If your film is viewed purely as an entertainment property, then we miss all of the upside of a public service announcement. If it's seen as a PSA, it's a lecture... it has to be both."
—Mike Rowe [73:39]
- Sheepdog has instead relied on festival circuits, grassroots marketing, and direct community partnerships (such as VetTix).
6. Reception: Awards, Reviews, and Emotional Impact
- Sheepdog has won 15 awards on the festival circuit, including Best Actor and Best Screenplay.
- Critics have compared it favorably to Coming Home, American Sniper, and The Messenger, calling it "one of the best films of the year" and "a rare, perfect film."
Quote:
"Every star, every time that we've ever won an award, we're typically shocked. And I say that because there's a machine out there..."
—Steven Grayhm [52:27]
- The most meaningful feedback has come from veterans themselves, some of whom finally “have a film to show my family why I am the way I am, but why they are the way they are.” [61:05]
7. The Symbolism of the Title "Sheepdog"
- The term “sheepdog” is used both literally and as a meta metaphor, representing those who guard others and the “war of the soul,” not just physical conflict.
- The film deliberately avoids explicit war scenes, focusing instead on the inner battles faced by veterans long after their return home.
Quote:
"Who's the sheepdog, by the way? I still can't figure it out."
—Mike Rowe [44:53]
"That's for you to determine. But there could be multiple sheepdogs."
—Steven Grayhm [44:55]
8. Call to Action and Post-Traumatic Growth
- Steven urges connection—reaching out to veterans as neighbors and fellow citizens, not just expressing hollow gratitude but asking simple, meaningful questions about their well-being.
- He and Mike emphasize that neither healing nor bridging the civilian-veteran gap is possible without candid conversation and collective engagement.
Quote:
"If we can save a single life with the film, it'll be the greatest Hollywood success story... If we can at least build the bridge... I think we've done our job."
—Steven Grayhm [63:46]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the weight of telling veterans’ stories:
"He handed me his in memoriam band and said, 'Don't let me down.' That was the summer of 2011. There was no way to be inauthentic from then on."
—Steven Grayhm [12:14] -
On PTS and public attitudes:
"Civilians often don't know how to thank veterans... Most veterans in my experience said, 'Well, don't give me some hollow gesture. Just ask me how I'm doing.'"
—Steven Grayhm [38:03] -
On overcoming imposter syndrome:
"The performance is as good as it is because I didn't overthink it. My North Star were the stories that both uplifted me, but for years haunted me in my own nightmares. That was it. It was that simple."
—Steven Grayhm [59:06] -
On the power of authentic, unscripted moments:
"The moments that we used to promote that project were the moments I had with that old man that were completely unscripted, unanticipated, and utterly real. That's what I meant before when I said, I think I have an unfair advantage."
—Mike Rowe [44:06] -
On the universality of exhaustion in meaningful work:
"There's no denying the long list of great things that have happened because exhausted people kept pushing. You're tired right now? ... I'm tired all the time."
—Mike Rowe [90:04]
Memorable Segments & Timestamps
- Opening discussion on the film's impact [00:04–06:13]
- Steven's journey from LA to Western Mass and why place matters [06:14–10:37]
- Origin story: taking on a veteran’s trust and the weight of responsibility [11:07–13:51]
- Research with the VA and Honor Flight, building authentic performances [35:37–37:55]
- Discussion of the sheepdog metaphor and avoiding war clichés [44:55–46:10]
- Festival circuit reactions and what the film means to veterans [52:07–55:27]
- Strategies for outreach and partnering with VetTix for screenings [75:08–79:03]
- Advice for civilians: simple acts of connection [61:22–63:51]
- Personal stories of influence—John Candy, John Savage, and healing encounters [79:19–87:15]
- Final reflections on exhaustion, impact, and the film’s legacy [88:01–92:34]
- Closing affirmations and gratitude [92:38–end]
Tone and Language
The conversation is candid, intimate, and deeply respectful, interspersed with humor, humility, and a sense of shared mission. Both host and guest hold a space for vulnerability, earnest reflection, and an unwavering focus on honoring the individuals represented in Sheepdog.
Summary for New Listeners
This episode is a compelling exploration of how one independent film—painstakingly crafted over 14 years—became a vessel for telling America’s most difficult and vital stories about trauma, resilience, and the search for healing. Anyone interested in veterans’ issues, authentic filmmaking, or the enduring human struggle for belonging and purpose will find powerful testimony here—and an invitation to see both the film and the people it represents in a new light.