463: Cyril Derreumaux—In the Flow

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

Episode 463: Cyril Derreumaux—In the Flow
Date: December 16, 2025
Guest: Cyril Derreumaux

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Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Mike Rowe sits down with Cyril Derreumaux, an adventurer and “crazy French guy” who solo kayaked across both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Over a conversation filled with humor, philosophy, and raw honesty, Cyril unpacks what drives a person to paddle alone for months, how he prepared mentally and physically, what he experienced on the open sea, and the personal revelations he brought back to dry land. The episode delves into themes of risk, resilience, the search for meaning, and the universal desire to step outside one's comfort zone and into a fuller life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin Story: Meeting Cyril

• Mike describes running into Cyril by chance multiple times over several years, first as a dreamer training for the Pacific crossing, then as a survivor who’d completed it, and finally after his Atlantic feat.
  • “He’s like the kind of guy that I really wanted this podcast to be for and about.” (00:23)
  • “If you actually do that and live, maybe I’ll run into you again…” (01:38)

2. Record-Setting Ocean Crossings

• Cyril’s achievements:
  • Kayaked solo from California to Hawaii in 91 days (2021).
  • Later crossed from the Canary Islands to Martinique in 71 days.
  • Holds records for fastest and first to cross two major oceans solo in kayak.
  • “I paddled across the Pacific in 91 days in a kayak alone. Alone.” – Cyril (01:58)
  • “He did it the fastest. And he did it in two different oceans.” – Mike (03:27)
• Challenges and logistics of each trip, and how the currents, winds, and Cyril's experience influenced the journey's duration and outcome.
• First attempt was cut short due to a storm; led to later success.

3. Pushing Limits: Motivation and Mindset

• Cyril immerses in the solitude, finding not loneliness but “aloneness.”
  • “It’s not loneliness. It’s being aloneness, because I never felt lonely. That makes you connected to the oneness.” – Cyril (07:34)
• Tattoos as personal reminders and symbols of the journey, resilience, and readiness for risk, not loss.
  • “Am I willing to lose my life for my passion of living life to the fullest? And the answer was then no.” – Cyril (11:07)
• The difference between risking, losing, and giving your life for something (12:16).

4. Daily Life on the Ocean

• Physical routine: Five hours paddling in the morning, midday break (water production with solar desalination), five hours paddling in the afternoon.
• Food: 4,000 calories a day; mostly freeze-dried, cold meals.
• Physical effects: Loss of 15 pounds, need to manage hygiene to avoid salt sores, atrophy from not standing for months.
  • “What if I tell you for 90 days, you cannot get up?” – Mike (17:07)
  • “I had to find a way… I just toss [my waste] in the ocean.” – Cyril, on bathroom logistics (17:26)

5. Managing Danger and Self-Awareness

• Risks: Storms, container ships, mechanical failures, sea creatures (sharks, swordfish), capsizing.
• Vigilance at night: Waking every hour to check for obstacles (23:07).
• Always tethered to the boat for safety.
  • “I’m attached. Even if it’s flat, day, night, I’m attached.” – Cyril (34:43)
• “Self-awareness is the most important.” (22:08)
  • Self-monitoring, brutal honesty, mindset reframing vital for survival and mental health on a months-long solo trip.

6. The “Flow” and Mental Transformation

• Entering “flow state,” and redefining time and attention during repetitive days:
  • “Every day is the same…but every day is different.” – Cyril (26:18)
  • “The concept of the future doesn’t exist because it’s not here yet. The past doesn’t matter because it’s gone.” (28:17)
• Overcoming emotional hardship: Missing human contact, handling emotions via positive reframing and celebrating small milestones.
  • “I cried every day. I cried every day because the people that are back on land, the human touch, you miss it. So much.” – Cyril (29:20)

7. Connection with Nature and Oneness

• Profound moments of spiritual connection—feeling “one with the ocean.”
  • “My body was essentially seawater.” – Cyril (61:19)
  • Combines tears and ocean spray as a metaphor for oneness (62:29)
• Birds, whales, and weather as companions, omens, and reminders of interconnectedness.
  • “I started to talk to every bird. They talk back? No, they don’t. Someday they don’t care. Rude.” – Cyril (31:35)

8. Lessons on Discomfort, Comfort & Modern Life

• Importance of embracing purposeful difficulty:
  • “Life is tough. Reality is the best things are out of your comfort zone.” – Cyril (56:21)
• Society’s coddling and the need for masagi—deliberate, challenging experiences (59:32).
  • “There should be a very high chance of failure if you try it.” – Mike (58:34)
• Hardships enhance the value and joy of simple pleasures upon return.

9. Preparation: Physical, Mental and Spiritual

• Physical: Training, adding muscle mass, diet, building sea legs.
• Mental: Work with coaches, Wim Hof method, hypnosis, cold plunge, meditation/yoga in India.
  • “I tried everything, you name it. I don’t know what, I don’t know. I’ll try it.” – Cyril (77:25)
• Accepting discomfort as a teacher and embracing whatever comes.

10. Role Models and Meaning

• Influences: Mike Horn, Ed Gillette, Alex Honnold, Shackleton—heroes of adventure.
  • “There’s a certain category of people…that don’t really need a reason to follow what your passion is.” – Cyril (47:59)
• The universality of following a "calling," and its power to inspire others to their own adventures.

11. Giving Back: Purpose Beyond Adventure

• Cyril’s ultimate goal: “I want to leave the people I meet better than I found them.” (70:21)
• Shares lessons through motivational speaking, writing, and public exhibits (his kayak is on display in Sausalito).
• Inspiring others—especially youth—to find their own version of the “hard thing” worth doing in life.

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Memorable Quotes

• On Motivation:
  “Why not? Don’t tell me why. Everybody asks me why. Why do you want to do this?…Why not? I want to do it. Let me do it.” – Cyril (09:32)

• On Flow and Time:
  “The concept of the future doesn’t exist because it’s not here yet. The past doesn’t matter because it’s gone. Just becomes real. You could read all the books of Buddhism… but it’s only a theory until you live it.” – Cyril (28:17)

• Spiritual Oneness:
  “I was the ocean telling me, look, drop of salt water. You’re me, I’m you. We’re the same.” – Cyril (62:29)

• On Comfort & Challenge:
  “There are no coincidences.” – Cyril (65:14)
  “You actually have to figure out a way to love [the discomfort].” – Mike (60:44)

• On Sharing the Journey:
  “Dare, live, learn…share and inspire.” – Cyril, on his personal ethos (71:12)

• On the American Dream:
  “I think more in the American dreams than a lot of Americans, because they’ve been told that, but they take it for granted that how lucky they are. They don’t even know how lucky they are.” – Cyril (73:15)

• On Influence:
  “I want to tell people that you could be a regular guy…if you’re passionate enough, with discipline, risk, what it takes…you can do anything you want.” – Cyril (54:03)

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Notable Moments and Timestamps

• Early meetings and first challenge to appear on the podcast (00:03–03:19)
• Ocean crossings recap and record details (06:09–09:04)
• First failed attempt and the lessons learned (10:15–14:27)
• Boat description and tattoos’ meaning (12:52–15:26)
• A day in the life on the water (18:02–19:11)
• On hygiene, injuries, and self-care (21:46–22:08)
• Mental strategies for isolation and endurance (22:44–23:02)
• Handling danger from ships and sea creatures (23:07–34:09)
• Epiphanies and oneness with ocean and earth (61:19–63:29)
• Finding purpose in hardship and inspiring others (70:21–71:42)
• Discussion of American Dream and immigrant experience (73:15–74:59)
• Methods of preparation: yoga, Wim Hof, hypnosis (76:27–77:25)
• Moments of realization and puzzle metaphor for big projects (78:38–80:06)
• Parting philosophy: blend of certainty and uncertainty (84:13–84:20)

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Suggested Further Reading (from the Conversation)

• Latitude Zero (Mike Horn)
• The Pacific Alone (Ed Gillette)
• Free Solo (Alex Honnold, documentary)
• Man’s Search for Meaning (Viktor Frankl)
• Longitude (Dava Sobel)
• The Comfort Crisis (Michael Easter)
• The Art of Getting Lost

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Where to Learn More

• Kayak exhibits at Sausalito’s Bay Model museum.
• Cyril’s website: SoloKayakTheAtlantic.com
  Or, as he jokes: “crazyfrenchguycrossingocean.com” (86:32)
• For updates on Cyril’s future adventures, documentaries, and public speaking.

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Conclusion

This episode captures the spirit of the everyday adventurer: a man who “files away the why” and leans fully into the “why not.” Cyril Derreumaux’s story isn’t just about breaking records; it's about accepting discomfort, chasing flow, and coming back from the edge with stories that light the path for others. Both Mike and Cyril root the conversation in humor, humility, and a deep sense of shared humanity, leaving listeners with the charge to find their own adventure—however big or small—and to, above all, live fully and dare greatly.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys. It's the way I heard it. Mike Rowe here with my new favorite crazy French guy. You had an old favorite crazy French guy? Well, Pepe Le Pew occupied a fair amount of real estate in my brain for many, many, many years, but he has been eclipsed by the one and only Cyril Daremo. Yes. Who I get to know and who you will get to know momentarily. I sort of know who this guy is, and as you'll hear me say shortly, he's the kind of guy that I really wanted this podcast to be for and about. He's the kind of guest, you know.

[B]

Someone who you find interesting that you.

[A]

Meet along the way accidentally. Right. But, I mean, I would describe him as a guy who talked his way onto the podcast.

[B]

He.

[A]

He did that. And. And you know what? Lots of people try, and sometimes it works. But, you know, between production and logistics and timing and everything else, it's not realistic to Forrest Gump your way through a podcast based on people you meet out in the real world. True. But this guy came pedaling past me four years ago. Yeah. I was out for a ruck, and he was training, and he swung his bike around and he introduced himself. He speaks, what, six or seven languages, this guy? But he was using my mother tongue, thankfully, and told me that he planned on paddling a kayak from California to Hawaii.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And he said, it's going to be a great adventure, and I would love to come on your podcast and talk about it. And you said? I said, well, I tell you what, crazy French guy, if you actually do that and live, maybe I'll run into you again, you know, and maybe we'll have a chat.

[B]

And then what happened?

[A]

Well, I ran into him again. It's probably like a year and a half later, and there he is on his bike, and I'm huffing and puffing along on the bike trail with my ruck, and he pulls a U turn and says, you know, my Michel, it is serial. I have done it. Like, wait, done what? But I paddled across the Pacific in 91 days in a kayak alone. Alone. So, holy crap, now I'm paying attention. And of course, it takes time. And another year goes by.

[B]

I was gonna say, did you have him on the podcast, Mike?

[A]

Well, I called you. I was like, hey, man, I met this guy. He paddled kind of, like, all over the Pacific. I think he's interesting, but we were busy and, you know, whatever. And then I see him again. He's like, michel, I have done it again. Like, what the hell are you talking about this time? He'd paddled across the Atlantic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Alone in a kayak.

[B]

In 70 days?

[A]

In 70 days, ma'. Am. So that's never been done. And he's a guy who lives not far from where I live, who I've met three times in a completely serendipitous, random way. And now, at long last, he's our guest. And he is everything that I hoped he would be, man. Just an absolute joy to talk to. Yeah, he's like a Guinness Book of.

[B]

World Records holder multiple times.

[A]

Look, he's not the only guy who's, like, gone across the ocean.

[B]

But he did it the fastest.

[A]

He did it the fastest. And he did it in two different oceans. Yeah, I mean, he did the Atlantic and the Pacific. Just to let you know he was serious. Sirius is a heart attack. He's generous as can be if you are really wondering what it's like to be alone with nothing but your thoughts and your kayak and the sea birds and the creatures of the deep. He'll walk you through it, and I think you'll appreciate it. And I think you're gonna want to take a deeper dive on this guy. I'm interested in him. I'm fascinated to know what he's gonna do next, and I feel really lucky that I stumbled into him. I hope you will, too. We'll find out right after this with a little episode we like to call in the Flow with Cyril.

[B]

Dermo.

[A]

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[B]

Thank you for inviting me.

[A]

This is the reason I changed the format of this podcast. Honestly, you are. I want to talk to a lot of different people, but mostly I wanted an excuse to talk to people that I genuinely just ran into by accident. And I almost literally ran into you. What was like a year ago on the bike path.

[B]

Four years and two years ago and last.

[A]

Yeah, no, I've spoken to you out in the wild at least three times. Correct. And each time I thought you were a little less crazy than you were the f the last time. So the first time we met, I'm like, ah, this is a crazy guy on a bike. And I'm like, who am I to talk? I'm walking around with 65 pounds on my back like a lunatic. But we just talked and you said some nice things. And then I.

[B]

At that time, what I was talking about was a dream.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the next time I saw you, I was like, I've done it. That's the difference. That's why I'm less a lunatic. Because the first why and then it's how. And then you're more interesting because you've done it.

[A]

Well. That's right. The first thing is like, I filed you away in the back of my mind and thought, well, if this guy actually paddles across the Pacific Ocean by himself in a kayak and lives, then I would like to know what that was like. And then you did that, and then.

[B]

You did it again.

[A]

What the hell is the matter with you?

[B]

I guess I loved it so much. There's something on the ocean, on that. Loneliness. It's not loneliness. It's being aloneness, because I'd never felt lonely. That makes you connected to the oneness, to the ocean, to the elements that I wanted to feel again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had the boat, had the experience, and I said, you know what? Why not?

[A]

So the real quick synopsis is the first trip you buy yourself 90, 91 days from California, basically, to, what was it? Hilo, Big Island.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And then what, a year later you did it again.

[B]

Yeah. This time from east to west, or almost Africa, the Canary Islands off of Africa, all the way across west to the Caribbean, and I finished in Martinique.

[A]

Across the Atlantic.

[B]

Correct. I know it sounds ridiculous.

[A]

And that second trip did not take you 90 days it took you like 70 something?

[B]

71. And it's longer, but the trade winds, the currents were stronger. I believed in my boat better, so I could let it run better. More during the night. And I guess, I don't know, I was more connected. I felt even better. I had done it before, so I had this safety of my mind to think, okay, I can do it again.

[A]

Look, I have so many questions for you. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to ask some that you've already answered. I promise I'll ask some that you've never heard before. But before we really dive in, it should be established that you're very French. You can. I mean, clearly you're French, but you're a citizen of the world.

[B]

Yes, that's how I like to define myself.

[A]

How many languages do you speak?

[B]

Six. And you?

[A]

Less. I'm still working on one. So you're so French. English. Let me guess. Italian?

[B]

Spanish. Correct.

[A]

Spanish given. Where you've been, you probably. Portuguese, maybe?

[B]

Correct. Brazil. Yep.

[A]

Portuguese.

[B]

A bit of German.

[A]

And German, yeah.

[B]

And I'm learning Norwegian now.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Why not? Don't tell me why. Everybody asks me why. Why do you want to do this? What do you want? Why not? I want to do it. Let me do it.

[A]

Look, I'm not stopping you. I'm just saying I've got a mental list of people in my mind who have paddled solo around the world in a kayak and who decided to learn Norwegian with no clear plan of going to Norway, as far as I know, just because.

[B]

No plans.

[A]

So we have to understand what makes you tick. And then I need to understand what you did to prepare for this. And then I want to hear about the journey and how it changed you. And then I want to hear why you took it upon yourself to drive here on your own time to sit across from me and do this. But first, the tattoos. Explain those.

[B]

This one I got yesterday. This one I got on my first. I did a first attempt. I left from Sausalito. You're familiar? Fort Baker, under the Golden Gate.

[A]

I know it well.

[B]

And I was rescued five days later because I had a really terrific storm. My boat almost capsized. I was afraid to die. And I got rescued by the coast guards. And I came out of this boat and I thought, okay, did I do everything I could? Did I want it? And I talked to the right people that give me the perspective. And, Cyril, even though you worked for four years, you did everything you could. You talked to all the people that I crossed before. Listen, all but in the End. You're probably not ready. So what it is. And I felt like maybe I could have gone even further in my, like until my boat was going to drown. I shouldn't have called for help. Like, how far am I willing to go for my passion? And the answer was there's people that go and live for their passion or their values. If you're going to defend your controversies in a war, etc. You're okay to lose your life for this. Am I willing to lose my life for my passion of living life to the fullest? And the answer was then no. But the only way I was going to be able to do it would be if I could answer this. Yes. So I love symbols, but big difference.

[A]

Between lose and the other four letter word, which of course is risk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You risk your life. Yeah. Happily.

[B]

Well, there. No, yeah, there's risk. But if you can mitigate them by the right action, you're okay.

[A]

Yeah, but to know, like to give, there's another four letter word. So we have give, lose and risk. To give your life in the service of something larger. A heavenly cause or a war effort, whatever it may be, to lose your life in the process of trying a thing. And to risk your life knowing that either of the above might not end the way you want. But there's your journey, there's your trip.

[B]

Oh, here's your four words for you. How about love? Life. Love like you love life so much that you're willing to risk the risk to feel every. Every little scent that it can give you.

[A]

How far out were you on that first trip? You said five days. Yeah. What is that in nautical miles?

[B]

70 nautical miles. 100. 100 miles. Not far. Santa Cruz. No, I wasn't far. But the storm took me after day two. It came out of nowhere and for three days I was stuck in my cabin. I was attached. I have a strap on my chest, one of my hips.

[A]

Describe the boat so people understand what you mean by a cabin.

[B]

The kayak I built is able to with storm. Any stand any storm. Right. It's. It's 23ft long. It's got a cabin in the back that I can lay on it.

[A]

That's what I'm looking at right now. Yeah.

[B]

I'm sitting down at this copic that could be swamped by any waves at any time. So I'm wet all the time. Okay. Forget about being dry. My sleeping bag is wet after a week just because of the sheer condensation that I breathe day and night.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I've got food for 90 days, I make my own water with a desalinating machine.

[A]

And you're drinking ocean water.

[B]

Correct. After two months, my whole body is made of ocean water, and I become one with the ocean. But here's the thing. So I lay down on this cabin. I can close a hatch, and I'm perfectly fine. If you're okay being fine in a washing machine or dryer for a few days.

[A]

So in this boat of yours, it's called the Valentine.

[B]

Valentin is my sister. We're five kids in the family, one girl, and I wanted to give it to her.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Yeah. Valentine, she would take care of me. I knew that.

[A]

So in this photo, this looks like you're well into the journey. That's a full on Tom Hanks cast castaway beard you've got going there.

[B]

Yeah, I wanted to become a Viking. The spirit of the Viking, you know, back to the.

[A]

So what is the tattoo?

[B]

So the tattoo, I got it from this amazing artist, Pate, and then I came to see him, and I said, I need to. I love symbols. I need to have something that I could reach to that would show my dedication to getting to Hawaii. And I wanted to brand like this. Like my. Like.

[A]

Yes. I mean, it's a very. Like a. Like a Maori, correct?

[B]

Yeah, it's Samoa, but it's Polynesian culture, and I love how they got connected so much with the ocean. And it's a. Cyril. Okay. You're going to cross this ocean. It's a journey. Birds are good omen in the Polynesian culture, because once you see a bird, you're safe. Either the land is not too far, or because the bird is here is because the storm could be away. But it's a good omen. Yeah. And the bird looks at the ocean because it's never afraid to be lost. A bird is never lost. A bird can be in storm. It's okay. The bird. Like, I've seen a bird every day of my journey.

[A]

You're like, you know, like, where do they go?

[B]

Where do they go? Where do you stop? Where do you land? What do you eat? What? So he said, I want to do a bird, because they spend 90% of the time on the ocean, and they come back safely to land to nest, and you're gonna have a good journey, and the birds are gonna protect you. So he did this. He did this tattoo. Yeah.

[A]

That's pretty now, but was that. That was done after you actually made it?

[B]

No, first attempt. And then my. Before the real Atlantic, where I finished in 90 days. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay. All right, so give me a date just so I can anchor this. I meet you on the bike trail. It's four years ago. And you're in the process of training for this journey.

[B]

Correct. It was two weeks. It was in 2021. Two weeks before I took off. But it was too short that we could do anything. We could talk. So I. I left. And 90 days later, I had the big Toma Hank beard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And successful. I came back. It was like I loved it, but I. I don't know if I can go again. So then I go back into the normal life, you know, I paddle in the bay. Beautiful Bay of.

[A]

What do you do for money? What is your normal life?

[B]

I work. Yeah. So now I'm a motivation speaker one. But I was GM for a company that teach sailing in Sausalito. Yeah. So now I can sail. If you want, we can cross to Hawaii in a sailboat.

[A]

That sounds great. I've got some time next Wednesday. Okay, good.

[B]

So I do that. I couldn't. I can't be an adventurer full time just yet.

[A]

I'm just looking at. So that's your path, basically. That's the Atlantic, though.

[B]

Yes. And you could see the first. First months, the currents were taking me northwest. That's when the mental game starts in. Because you're doing. You're going the opposite way of where you're going.

[A]

I mean, I've got so many questions. So you paddle and pedal. You're paddling and pedaling this thing. Is that right?

[B]

Yeah, I've got. I wanted to use a way to use my legs. I've got a pedaling system that I use an hour a day so I wouldn't be completely atrophied when I land.

[A]

Be like an astronaut coming back from space. Correct.

[B]

I didn't walk or stand for three months. Like, look, you're sitting down here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What if I tell you for 90 days you cannot get up?

[A]

Well, I would just pray for the most interesting guest of all time. And one after the next. But no, that. I mean, that's unthinkable. You have to be able to stretch, I would think. You've got to be able to wash yourself. You've got to be able to. You know. How do you crap. How do you crap in the middle of the ocean? What do you.

[B]

Oh, yeah. So I got this little dessert bowl. I just sit on it.

[A]

A dessert bowl? Yeah.

[B]

I had to find a way, like, you can. And I just toss it in the ocean.

[A]

Of all the names, a dessert bowl. Like what you do you walked in Bed, Bath and Beyond. I'm looking for a mixing bowl with, you know, a soft edge.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Not too, not too big, not, not too weak. It has to be strong because I sit on it.

[A]

All right, well, let's just riff on that then. Your routine like, okay, give me a 24 hour day for you.

[B]

I wake up with a sunrise. Actually half an hour before sunrise because I got to get ready and optimize every light I've got. First light. The sunrise is beautiful. I take it, I take it all. And every time I could get any energy to fill me and I'll take it. And it could be a sunrise, it could be a beautiful cloud, it could be a bird, it could be anything. And. And then I paddle for five hours in the morning. So I eat about 4,000 calories is about twice as much as a regular land.

[A]

What are you eating?

[B]

I was freeze dry. Meals, bars, all stuff that you know are light and high calorie. I never heated water. I always ate cold because should I have something to heat, I could burn myself. Right. So it was a risk I didn't want to take. Then I eat that have and I paddle five hours until noon. Noon. The sun is up in the top and that's when I want to use my batteries to make water. Otherwise I would drain my batteries too fast. When the sun is at the zenith, it charges my batteries. I can make a gallon of water in about an hour. So I kind of stay around in the cabin. It's good to take a break and I go back on the cockpit to another five hour paddle.

[A]

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[B]

No, I just go in the cabin.

[A]

Yeah, you just. Okay.

[B]

I let the boat drift wherever it goes, it doesn't matter. I look at my plotter, in fact early in the morning for to save my weather router, I've got a professional guy who's going to tell me, okay, here's the weather for the next three days. It's going to go up, down. Here's the strength of the wind, 15, 16, 20 knots. Here's the height of the waves, the direction of the waves, the frequency between the waves where if, you know, if it's a 5 meter, let's 10ft wave, 15 seconds, it's going to be kind of flat so it's okay. But the same height of wave but 8 seconds is going to make much steeper. So it's much dangerous. It could crash on you. So then I adjust my day. Do I wear a short, do I wear, you know, suspenders or whatever, like be more protected? 5 hours in the afternoon, I finish, I start my routine of hygiene. You know, I'm so salty, I'm sitting down on my butt all day. I could have salt sores very fast. So I need to clean that. My routine of hygiene is important. So important.

[A]

I would imagine every single routine on a three month trip is important. Everything, everything. Because the slightest injury could be fatal.

[B]

I could not cut myself. It would never heal right.

[A]

Right. A wound won't heal, but like a broken finger, a jammed, you know, you twist an ankle somehow you can't pedal. You, you're in like real trouble.

[B]

Yeah. So that's why you got to be slow. You say it's a long term, long three 90 days, three months. I got to take it slow. You're not running, you take it easy. Self awareness is the most important. Self awareness of where your physical body is, your mind. Are you too emotional? Are you too fearful? Are you optimistic? Are you. You have to have the self awareness to see and look at yourself because nobody is going to tell you. Once you have that self awareness, you have to have that self critique. That's the number two. Self critique is being able to analyze how you Are and say, is it good? Is it bad? What do I do about this?

[A]

With brutal honesty?

[B]

Yes. You can't lie to yourself.

[A]

You don't bullshit yourself.

[B]

No, there's something.

[A]

You're alone.

[B]

No, you can say, I'm feeling. No, you're not feeling good. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's been three days in a storm. You could be optimistic, but it has to be true. The third one is okay, how do you change that? Do you reframe? How do you reframe your mind so you can change something about it?

[A]

Okay, I'll get to that in a second. Because, I mean, this is a brain game.

[B]

Okay, Let me finish my day. Sorry about this.

[A]

Your day.

[B]

Okay. Night comes. I don't want to paddle at night because I don't see the waves coming. It's dangerous. I could fall overboard, be lost at sea. What I do, I wake up every hour because one of the biggest problem is the container ships. I can detect the container ships up to 20 miles away on my plotter, my GPS. Okay. And they can see me, but they come fast. They do 20 miles an hour. I do 2 miles an hour. I'm drifting. It's 0.5 miles an hour. Okay. I'm 7 meters long because they're 300 meters long. So I gotta watch for them even though they're watching. I don't know. So the way I do it is I wake up every hour. Look at my plotter. I can see one. Okay. This direction is good. There's not going to be collision. I'm good. I can wake up in an hour. Look at it again. So I changed my sleep pattern to waking up every hour. And then you get used to sleep deprivation. You get used to seasickness. You get used to the 15 hours battling.

[A]

You can get used to anything. Yeah, that's the thing, man, that's crazy.

[B]

The body.

[A]

Just train it. Just tell it what to expect and then do it again. Do it again, do it again. So you're sleeping an hour at a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You wake up every hour just to course. Correct. Right.

[B]

I don't cross. Correct. I look at my drift.

[A]

That's it. Well, what if. I mean, if you get in a big blow like that and if you. I mean, you could do what, 15, 20 miles a day, maybe paddling?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah. And you could give all that back at night?

[B]

Yeah. I'll wake up the next morning, I'm further than I've started.

[A]

Or it's good. You picked up 10 miles exactly in the right direction.

[B]

That's what happened in The Atlantic. The Atlantic is 100 nautical miles longer than the Pacific. It took me three weeks less. The current was so strong, I let it drift. Wake up at 4. All right, baby.

[A]

Yeah. We should point out that the. In reality, the Pacific is much larger.

[B]

It's just that I did the mid Pacific.

[A]

You did the mid Pacific?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had you gone all the way to what, New Zealand or Australia?

[B]

Australia. Or you could go to Philippines or cross the other way to Japan.

[A]

You'd still be out there.

[B]

Yeah, well, I would be starving because I. Arriving in Hilo, I was already missing food because I thought it was going to be a journey of 70 days and it took me 90, so I had to ration halfway through.

[A]

How much weight did you lose?

[B]

15 pounds on both times.

[A]

And that's actually a lot in three months, considering that you. You probably didn't have 15 pounds to lose.

[B]

I did. My strategy was go back home and my mom would feed me in a week.

[A]

So you went out fat.

[B]

I did.

[A]

Well, all that training I saw you doing.

[B]

I know, but it's the hardest thing to gain weight when you do four hours a day of training. It's the hardest thing.

[A]

I would love to try.

[B]

Go to France, eat a few croissants, baguette with butter, beignet, foie gras, whatever you want.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. So that's a 24 hour day. You wake up with the sun. The first thing you do is figure out just how far your course may have changed. All right. And you start paddling.

[B]

Yeah. Day in and day out. There's no Saturday, there's no Sunday. Look at all the things you do in two days.

[A]

Do you keep track of time? Do you even try?

[B]

Yeah, of course you try to. You put, you do like Tom Hanks, you put a little crack on, you know, a little paint, and then five days, 10 days. And then you're like, is it Tuesday, Wednesday, who cares?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then how long has it been? 20. Like, it doesn't matter. Every day is the same, but every day is different. And every day just that day matters. The fact the path doesn't.

[A]

Let's just ruminate on that for a minute. Every day is the same. It's the vast, limitless, specific. But every day is different. Even though you're looking at what appears to be the same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, so how does that make that make sense for people?

[B]

Right.

[A]

How is it new and familiar at the same time?

[B]

Well, here, on land. On land, like, you have a schedule, you have calendar, you have an email, you have a Phone. You have something to stay on track, you have somewhere to go. Always somewhere to go, which is stressful. I have nothing else to do than paddle. There's nothing else. It's so simple.

[A]

Like, what are you doing today? I have more paddling today. Yeah.

[B]

So it again, have you. You've understood the concept of flow, being in the flow.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The best athletes, the best chess players get into the flow. You're a tennis player where time changes. So it does. The 10, 10 hours seem to be two hours.

[A]

That's interesting. I talk a lot about that too. The certain activities will compress time. Yeah. And others just seem to like, stretch it out like a blade. It just goes on forever. Did. Did this. I imagine it was both. I imagine it felt interminable and I imagine there were days that were over, but.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before they began. Yeah.

[B]

And I believe it's how you manage your expectations. Have you seen, if you say, I'm gonna go for a run, 20 minutes, the last two minutes are hard. If you go for one hour run, the last two minutes are hard dot if you go for a three hour ride, the last three minutes are hard. So if you say, I'm gonna go for three months, for days and days, it's actually not that bad because, you know, it's when you get towards the end of your expectations that it starts to be hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before that, well, you're just doing what you're doing. But the concept of the future doesn't exist because it's not here yet. The past doesn't matter because it's gone. Just becomes real. You could read all the books of Buddhism and anything that tells you exactly that. Just be mindful of the present moment. You know, you're drinking your water. You're drinking your water. You're talking to Mike. You're talking to Mike. Just be in the present moment. It just makes sense. Like it's only a theory until you live it. And then you meet the reality. And the reality just tells you what they've been telling you is totally right.

[A]

What happens in your mind day after day after day. I mean, you don't know it's gonna take 90, it could have taken 70, it could have taken more. You don't know. But as you're going and like once you're in the thick of it, somewhere near the middle and you're in that flow, how do your emotions work? And what is there to become emotional over?

[B]

I cried every day. I cried every day because the people that are back on land, the human touch, you miss it. So much. And then you go all over the place. So the only way to grasp a 90 day trip is to have a goal for maybe the next two days. I go through the next two days and then the next week. And then actually the first two weeks is survival because sleep deprivation, physical. You change your food, you change your, your exercise, there's so much. It's just survival.

[A]

And then you're not in the flow yet.

[B]

No. And then you set another goal which is, okay, I'm 400 nautical miles. Let's, let's reach 500 nautical miles. Then you celebrate that little victory and then you're 1/4 of the journey. Okay, how about I celebrate that 600 nautical miles then? Anything positive you wanted? Because I refused any negativity. I said no negativity. Not welcome in this boat. I'm going to be positive. It's raining. I'm going to find positive of the rain. I'm going to find the positivity of the wind behind me or the lack of wind. It's a mindset where you will. You just decide what you want to think. Now if you catch yourself because your emotions can go all over the place, snap out of it. And that's where self awareness. Come back where you have to know yourself. If you're a warrior, bring on the war. I'm an emotional. I see beauty everywhere. I'm going to try to find beauty to charge my batteries.

[A]

Where'd you find it?

[B]

In a sunrise, in a soft breeze. There's a video. I'm actually, I showed it to you. This video is nothing. It's just the same sunrise as here. But it was after a week of terrible weather. I couldn't sleep. And I come out and I'm using my GoPro. I'm gonna film this. And I got caught by the moment. It was a moment of grace where it just overwhelms you like the beauty of sunrise. There's like the wind, but it's a soft wind, like a caress on your skin. And suddenly there's not big waves, but this is swell that is kind of smooth. And you see the clouds and the colors, beautiful. And there's a bird coming to see you. It's like, what? And that's why I do this. That's why did it feel.

[A]

I mean that's such a great way to put it. But did you feel like the bird was coming to see you?

[B]

Oh yeah. I was talking to them. I said, yeah. I started to talk to every bird.

[A]

They talk back.

[B]

No, they don't. Someday they don't care. Rude.

[A]

No, but rude. Sea birds, they don't care.

[B]

They're in their own world and the ocean doesn't care.

[A]

What a treat you must be to them. Yeah. Imagine them, they're not out there for 90 days. They're out there for years. There's a tanker. We've seen that. We've seen that. What the hell is going on over here with this bearded freak? What is. Where's he going? Let's go see him.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[A]

What about fish? What about whales? What about, oh, beautiful whales? What did you see?

[B]

Whales? Sharks. Sharks are okay. That, you know, everybody say, ah, but they're shark. No, they just come by, see you, and they go, I got scared on the Atlantic. I saw swordfish as big as my boat. And the swordfish has a bill. Okay. There's been accounts of swordfish attacking or punching. We don't know if they're attacking, but punching rowing boats. And we don't know if it's because they're chasing a fish that's hiding behind the heated. Or they don't see you, they hit you. But should they hit? Hit me. This guy was 23ft long. I'll show you the video.

[A]

This guy's like, you got a video of this thing?

[B]

Yeah. Do. Yeah. I got so scared, like I stopped paddling completely. I'm. I want to be invisible. I feel so vulnerable. It's like walking in the savannah and there's a lion comes here. You're naked. You cannot do like it's your. Please just go away. I love you. Please go away. Please.

[A]

You have no choice but to assume what they call the submissive posture. Right. I mean, wolves do it right. A wolf, a small wolf meets a big wolf. They just lie back and expose their belly and say, look. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's really no mystery here. If you're going to eat me, you can, you know, I prefer you not. But let's just. And that's, you know, and nature works. What do you. A 23 foot swordfish. People are going to. People can't imagine that. Yeah.

[B]

I just came on the side so I could see his eye and he was looking at me with some sort of alien look, like he was just checking me. I was not aggressive at all. I guess everything's in my mind, right? What if this. That wasn't one of my fears before I left. What if. If you punch as a hole, as big as a golf ball in the front in the middle of the night, what do I do? I punch. Okay. I've got My carbon fiber, my epoxy, I can patch it from the bottom. What if it's 2 o' clock in the morning? Middle of the night, do I jump in? That thing just hit me. Will it hit me again? Whoa. Better not think about this.

[A]

Did you get out of the boat much?

[B]

No, not much. I just need to go really. Just grab the barnacles. They grow very fast and they slow me down. But no, I don't like how much.

[A]

Can a barnacle or a barnacle, but hundreds of them, I suppose form quickly.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. So I in the Pacific I went under and they were about 2 inches long already after 50 days.

[A]

Are you tethered?

[B]

I'm tethered at all times, yeah. One of the big risk is to fall in the water. Even by mistake, I could drift faster than I could swim. Especially if I don't use my legs. I can't swim, I've got all my gear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm tethered all the time. That was one of the things I would promise my loved ones. I say I'm attached. Even if it's flat, day, night, I'm attached.

[A]

When were you the most scared?

[B]

When you lose control, there's this thing. If you're really well prepared, you can think of what if this happens? What do I do? I've got plan A, plan B, plan C. My watermaker broke twice. I had a plan B. It's okay even if it's bad. The things that are hard is something happens that you could not prevent, you could not preemptively imagine for which you don't have a solution for now. So you lose control. And the one thing about self awareness, of self esteem in your attempt to do something like this is I know I can adapt to anything. Once you're in the middle of a storm, you're naked, you're like, I cannot do anything. So there's no fight, there's no flight. I cannot fight against the ocean. I'm just okay. I cannot flight. I cannot go anywhere. There's no freeze. I'm going to quite be invisible. The only way is acceptance. Acceptance of your vulnerability and your smallness. And then whatever happens, happens. So you give up on not life, but you give up on your willingness to be safe. And then if that happens, it gives you so much power because then who cares?

[A]

You know that's the samurai, right? You're already dead.

[B]

Correct? Yes.

[A]

Dumb. There's a very poignant moment in the great film It's a Wonderful Life when George Bailey realizes that Uncle Billy is a terrible employee. It's right after Uncle Billy takes a moment to gloat in front of Mr. Potter, but then stupidly leaves his newspaper behind along with $15,000 of bank deposits which Mr. Potter steals. It's not long after that that poor George Bailey is standing on the bridge over the Bedford river, ready to take his own life to avoid the scandal put in motion by Uncle Billy's carelessness. It occurred to me as I watched this timeless classic the other night that George could have saved himself a lot of trouble by calling ZipRecruiter and finding himself a bank clerk with the necessary temperament and and experience for the job. Of course, ZipRecruiter wasn't around back in the 1940s, but they are today, which means you can find a quality candidate in no time at all. That's what four out of five people experience when they post a job for [e-mail] ro a quality candidate in just 24 hours. It's not a Christmas miracle. It's just the smartest way to hire on America's number one hiring site, ziprecruiter.com roe where recruiting always comes with a happy ending. Wellziprecruiter.com ro wellziprecruiter.com roll the smartest way to hire. Aside from humanity and just the touch of another person or the ability to have a conversation with someone, what else do you miss? And when you start to think about what you miss, do you immediately instruct your brain to get that out of there? Like, is that filed under the negativity that you want to keep off your boat? Or is it actually something you can, you can cling onto and think of to, you know, to bring you a little peace? I've always been interested, like I think of people in solitary confinement, for instance, or really any number of other adventurers who have put themselves off the grid, you know, and whether a nostalgic thing, you know, is it indulgent to thinking of home, thinking of your loved ones? Does it help you or hurt you.

[B]

You miss so much? I think the first, the most important you feast is human people you love. In fact, I wrote so many blogs about love. I'll tell you more about this, about fraternity, but I think everything else, it's just secondary. Good food? Yeah, I'd like to have a warm burger and a cold beer and an ice cream. It doesn't really matter. Comfort, I don't care about. I'm wet, so why I'll be dry. But what happens is all these little Things when you come back to land just re. Enhances the ability to enjoy the simple things. A little kid that comes and you hug him and he cries, he smiles, he laughs. You enjoy that. There's a butterfly. He's beautiful. Wow. You smell the land and earth and just a moment of peace with friends. Just be here.

[A]

The feeling maybe of your bare feet. Feet in the sand, in the dirt, even on the concrete. Something real and connected.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And not moving.

[B]

Kissing land when you get there. And like, I'm not a water animal. I was out of my element and now I'm back.

[A]

Were you able to walk? I mean, how long till your sea legs?

[B]

Yeah. So sea legs is only 24 hours where everything moves. But it's more when I stand. The hips and the. The knees hurt because I didn't use the stability muscles and ligaments to walk. Right?

[A]

Yeah, but.

[B]

But it comes back. It's there. I just do a lot of yoga and stretch.

[A]

You got seasick?

[B]

I did, yeah. I'm always seasick. Five days.

[A]

Come on. You throw up every day.

[B]

Yeah, well, you throw up and. But you know that it's just a time that your brains need to adjust it. The internal. Here, that's it. So come on, Brian, do your thing. Five days later. You're good.

[A]

I've seen two different kinds of seasick in my life. I've been on a lot of boats and I've seen the kind of. That you can work through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Paddle through, pedal through, whatever, puke. I've gotten sick of the camera. Right. You know, I've thrown up in the middle of sentences and finished the sentence. Yeah, that's one kind. Yeah. And then there's the kind that I don't. You know, people just go away for a day or so. They can't get up, they can't go to the bathroom. Yeah.

[B]

I'm lucky I'm part of the first.

[A]

One because that would kill you if you got.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wonder if your body would even permit it. Would your body let you succumb to that kind of seasickness if your brain knows it's a death sentence?

[B]

Yeah. So I. I'm a part of the second group where I can manage it. But I'm super aware that if I. If I vomit, I'm losing liquids. If I don't drink, I'm sweating, I'm losing liquid. So I force myself to drink and eat, even though it's a little bit. I wake up in the middle of night to just eat. And I know it's going to Last five days I could manage it. But there takes discipline because it's just my dreams would go away if I were not to.

[A]

What did it feel like to actually get in a bed with cool crisp sheets?

[B]

Dry sheets.

[A]

Dry sheets. Like were you able to sleep or did it.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Were you like Tom Hanks sleeping on the floor?

[B]

No, I slept for eight hours straight like I was in heaven. I tell you the shower when you arrive. Cause my water makers broke twice during the Pacific after 50 days. So then I'm. I'm doing this manual thing for two hours to get my gallon. It's drop after drop. You get in the shower.

[A]

How does that work? So wait a minute. It's a desalinating machine.

[B]

Basically it's a manual one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You throw a little hose in the water and then what it'll do. It'll take some water, pressurize it to a high psi. I wouldn't know what to tell you. But 90% of that water goes through those tangential filters out. It's the brim. Only 10% is filtered out. It's drop by after drop. And then you fill up your, your bottle of water.

[A]

So. So how long does it take you to get a bottle a quart.

[B]

It's two hours to. To get those gallon.

[A]

So see if you can find this thing. Chuck. I'm just.

[B]

Yeah. It's power survivor for it's not the 40e something.

[A]

Ah, the 40e was a great one. But yeah. Yeah. When it comes to desalinating, you know, why cut corners? Wow. Okay. So you have to look at your food really as fuel and not much else.

[B]

Calories.

[A]

It's calories. Yeah. And your go to dinner like if.

[B]

Oh, oatmeal. Oatmeal. I don't want anything spicy, too sweet or too salty. Something bland. It just fills me up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would add some granola. I actually created my own breakfast. Oatmeal. A couple oatmeal, half a cup of granola. Then I had to cup, you know of these protein and a little cup of fibers. And I would have that powdered milk. And that was my breakfast. 900 calories. That's my morning. And I would have freeze dry meals cold like eat spaghetti cold like whatever chowder and then bars and gels and then electrolytes. Electrolytes. So the water desalinated has kind of a weird taste to it.

[A]

I bet.

[B]

And there's because it's filtered. So that's my 40E. That's the one that broke twice. I don't like that one.

[A]

Oh, the power survived. Yeah. Yeah. 40ers probably not going to sell a lot of those on this episode.

[B]

No, it was perfect.

[A]

It's just still broke.

[B]

Yeah, twice.

[A]

Twice. Sorry. So which one is in the boat now? Where is the boat now?

[B]

It's in Sausalito, in the bay model. It's the museum in Sausalito where people can go for free and look at it. I want kids to be inspired.

[A]

Is that where it's going to live forever or you forever?

[B]

No. Are you kidding me? I've got a virus.

[A]

When are you back in the water with this thing?

[B]

Maybe a couple of years. I don't know. I'm. I'm dreaming. I. The athletic was eight months ago. All right, so I need to learn how to walk again to get some strength and. And one of the issues, wanting an adventure.

[A]

What do you mean? Still? You're still recovering?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I'm still working out. I lost 20 pounds of muscle, you know, so. But also mentally, it's. It's hard. It's so taxing. How do you. The problem with adventures like this is when you come back to land, it seems so bland that you kind of want to go on another one right away. And that would be a mistake to go with the wrong motivation. So I gave myself time to think over it. Do I really want it? Feel that inner fire. Feel. Feel that motivation. Okay, I'm going to go back to training so many hours a day. Go back to trying to find a finance. What ocean do I want to do? There's like this little things that tickles you a little bit every morning. And you wake up at four, you look at this website. Oh, you know, okay. You go to Windy, you look at the patterns of the currents and. And then the dreams start to shape. But I think the what?

[A]

The dreams.

[B]

The dreams.

[A]

Look, man, it's a very artistic way to think about adventure in the sense that, well, you're waiting for the museum, Right. Like a lot of people who write, they're not going to sit down and write simply. Some do, some writers, it's just a job. They sit down. I write eight hours a day. Doesn't matter if I feel like it or not. Others, they need to wait for the muse to come. You're an adventurer, but you're not going to go until what? The dreams inform the decision.

[B]

Right. And it needs to come from a place where I'm comfortable with the consequence of that decision. I'm 50. I'm 49. I'm 50. Do I want to do this all my life. Like can I find my need for liberty or escapism? I, I could just cross Mongolia in a horse. Like it would take three weeks. Yeah, yeah, why not? Why risk my life? Why do I want.

[A]

I'll put a list of reasons together for you. If you're really curious as to why you might not want to cross the Mongolian desert on a pony. But yeah, okay.

[B]

No, I mean I've been thinking a lot about this. Like is it ego that makes me push to the doing that third ocean? Is, is it going to be the one too many? Is it going to be like why, why do you do this? You know?

[A]

Well, that's the eternal question. Are you addicted?

[B]

Yeah, there's. I think I'm not addicted, but I think there's something you feel out there that you want to feel again.

[A]

Who do you like when you think about the prototypical adventurer? I'm sure you've read much about all of this. Yeah, I mean clearly. Who is it Shackleton? Is it Shackleton's amazing Magellan? Is it? Right? I mean Balboa? How do you, how do you think about these?

[B]

No, there's one guy that I really like, his name is Mike Horn. I don't know if you know him. Horn, Horn. He's South African and he lived in Europe for many years. He's done this book that I read 20 years ago called Latitude Zero and his idea was to go around the world following the lane of equator, the imaginary lane of the center of the world without going 40ks north of 40k styles. He followed it human powered. So he crossed the Atlantic on a boat. Once he got there, he crossed the jungle of the Amazonian by foot. In six months he climbed the mountains of Equator. Then he sailed from equator all the way to Indonesia, across Indonesia, mountain bike.

[A]

And what's his name? Mike Horn.

[B]

Mike Horn. He's the biggest adventurer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh my God, he's my, yeah, he's my idol.

[A]

I can't believe I haven't read that. But I, yeah, it's one of the 20 he's done.

[B]

Yeah, he's walked, you know, the North Pole in winter, so. And then he's got a way of explaining is like, why not like I, I want to do this and, and there's a certain category of people, maybe I'm one of those that don't, don't really need a reason to follow what your passion is. Right. I guess when people ask you why they don't get it, it's because they're Looking at what you're trying to do with their own filters. You don't ask the Beatles why they were singing or Picasso, Picasso, that nose is at the bottom of that eye. The eye is cross eyed. Like you don't ask Picasso what is your painting every day. So maybe I'm part of this, like the personality. This is why not. And especially why not me. I'm a regular guy. Like I was playing soccer all my life until I moved to California. I was 32, never kayaked before. 32. And maybe it takes a little bit of self belief or arrogance. I don't know what it is, but why not me?

[A]

Well, you're either. There are only three things you can impress, right? Other people, yourself, or something supernatural. That's. That's my corn. Yeah. Oh, look at him. He's crazy. He's a bedbug. Look at that guy.

[B]

He's fantastic. He's fantastic.

[A]

Have you met him? I have, yeah.

[B]

Actually, he sent me a video before I left. Sister. I'll just keep on paddling. It's gonna be hard, but keep paddling. Love this guy.

[A]

How? I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but has anyone ever done what you've done?

[B]

Well, there's. There were five. Five people before me. I'm the first one to have crossed two different oceans. And we're, you know, we're six, seven people to have done this.

[A]

It's a short list. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I spoke to every one of them. Everybody's super open. Scott Donaldson crossed the Tasman Sea from Australia to New Zealand. Spoke to him. He gave me all the info. Spoke to Peter Bray who crossed from Canada to Ireland. The North Atlantic is so tough. Spoke to him. Listen to podcast. I spoke to Ed Gillette. Ed Gillette is American. You know him? Oh, he's a legend. What I did is nothing. He crossed on a kayak. A double kayak. Like no cabin. Okay. He went from Monterey to Hawaii in 64 days. Navigating with a sextant.

[A]

Now that's my Next question.

[B]

In 1987, imagine. And he had a kite. So he was the first one to cross in a kayak and was the first one human powered. But he laid the way.

[A]

Well, Pure Talk just had their best year ever. And they asked me if I would take the time in this ad to simply thank you on their behalf. I said sure. Saying thanks is important, especially this time of year. But before I thank you guys for switching to PureTalk, I want to thank them sincerely for taking a stand on a few Things that do matter to me on a personal level, like keeping their customer service in this country and providing hundreds of American jobs. I appreciate that. For implementing a roundup program that allows their customers to round up their bill, they take the extra money and they give it to America's Warrior Partnership. Those guys are doing incredible work. To fight veteran suicide, PureTalk donated 1000 hand sewn American made flags to veterans on the 4th of July. I thought that was great. And of course, if you listen to this podcast, you know they support microworks. We turned 17 on Labor Day and they sent our work ethic scholarship program a check for $100,000. I appreciate that a lot. They're a great company. They keep their business in this country. They provide a wonderful service. So on behalf of everyone over there at PureTalk, thank you guys so much for making this a year to remember and to the rest of you, a merry Christmas. Explain the difference so people understand of navigating with a sextant versus, say, dead reckoning versus whatever the state of the art GPS might be that I assume you had on your plotter.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, had he done it now, he would have used a plotter for sure. Back then in 87. Okay, so the sextant is this kind of plastic, weird looking thing that helps you to measure the height of the sun at noon. Right. And it's actually not accurate because your boat is moving like you're in a kayak. You don't really have a good line of sight.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you kind of estimate and it gives you your latitude. And then you make calculation, you know, your longitude, longitude, and then from that you say, okay, where am I? Hawaii is this way. I'm going to keep going at that. Good. But it's really hard. Like he had no sat phone, he didn't communicate with anybody. Right. So doing that crossing without talking to anybody, I had lens support that I talked to or texted every day. That helped me tremendously mentally.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So the guy's legend now. He was the first one to ever do it. Right. He didn't know how long it would take. He thought it was going to be 40 days. So he took a kite and just flew the kite. Made him cross. But even that.

[A]

You mean it like as a sail.

[B]

As a kite in the air? Yeah. You know, it was very long strings and he pulled a kayak, but he made it to Hawaii. People thought he was dead because for two weeks, three weeks, he had no sign of life. He arrived in Maui, atrophied. He walked to the thing, he bought all the candies he could. I mean, you have to read this book called the Pacific Alone.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah, I read that book and I said I want to feel that what it is.

[A]

I actually need a reading list from you. So. Okay. The Pacific Alone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The other one, Mike Horn's book.

[B]

Oh yeah. Latitude Zero.

[A]

Yeah, Latitude.

[B]

Well, I'm writing my own book. I'll give it to you.

[A]

I would hope so. I mean, I hope you'll sign it too. What about. Have you seen Free Solo? Yes. Have you talked to Alex Honnold?

[B]

I have not. I love.

[A]

I mean, he's a talk about the flow. Yeah, you got to be in the flow to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is the guy who climbed. Was it El Capitan? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No rope. Crazy. But here's the thing. I'm working on documentary for my, my Pacific Crossing. If you look at Free Solo, Alex Honnold like a triple gold medal when he does that climb. Right. When you look at it, 90% of people are going to say, wow, this is amazing. You got a sweaty palms when you look at it. It's great. Like it's one of the biggest thing. Yeah. But when you finish that movie, you're like, I can't do that. I can't do that. Like this guy's machine. Like, okay, my. My whole thing and why I'm here talking to you and thank you for this. I want to tell people that you could be a regular guy if you're passionate enough not just to follow your dreams, but okay with a discipline, the risk, what it takes, and giving up sacrifice, all this, you can do anything you want. Right. You could be a regular guy. And what it's been 10 years. You wanted to paint, you haven't painted. Start the guitar now. It doesn't matter if you're 50. You want to start triathlon, you want to live in Argentina, you want to do it. And what I want to do if I were to do this documentary is people finish this. This crazy French guy across the Pacific. He started at 30. What. What am I waiting for?

[A]

You know?

[B]

And I wanted people to feel that inspiration and I hope they get it from the podcast too. Where do it like full your dreams, like just one life. You know what I mean?

[A]

Look, man, there are lots of people out there who get paid to speak. I'm one of them. I struggle about how to talk in motivational terms to people because I don't necessarily understand who my audience is. A lot of the time I don't know what they need to hear or what they want to hear. And I'm not sure either of those things matter. Like, I could just tell them my story. I. I didn't do what you did. But at this point in your life, I would imagine you do need to put some sides on this because it's really important. I think. I think you have something to say. And I think people have huge benefit to be yanked or prodded or coaxed out of their pattern, out of their comfort zone. Yeah, Maybe that's the question I should ask you. How do you think about comfort? How do you think about discomfort?

[B]

Well, I think we're too cuddled in nowadays, you click a button, you have pizza arriving in one hour. Like, seriously, bank is online. Everything's online. Kids are cuddled. Sorry to say that, but there's 10 teams in a soccer tournament of 12 years old. Everybody's gonna have a medal. Like, what the heck? You know, it's like, it's tough. Life is tough. Reality is the best things are out of your comfort zone. Now you could say if you're happy being on comfort, you've earned it. Good. But how about we teach our kids to search for the heart? There's two paths. One hard, one easy. Go for the hard, you'll learn more. Right? And then I'm not going to give it to you because you deserve it. You don't give a shit. You deserve to go after your dreams and feel it and see what it is to have a dollar and see what it is to earn your first car. And don't give it easy to. Yeah, sure. I want to give you a Passat for your first car. No? How about you buy this shitty Chevrolet and you fix it. Just my French.

[A]

You're thirsty, I could get you a bottle of water. Or I could give you the 40. Whack me and you know, just take two hours and now you deserve your water.

[B]

No, but here's the thing I want to say, okay? My grandpa, he fought the second World War. He escaped Nazi occupied France and he crossed the Pyrenees by foot. And then he went to England and he flew to the US to learn how to be a pilot, right? What an epic life. He came back and after the Second World War, they rebuilt the country, they rebuilt those values that they created during those times of hardship. Me, I haven't had any hardship. And I'm lucky, right? But somehow, don't you. I think people, especially men, kind of need that hardship to create those sense of values and ethics and what they believe in. Otherwise, it's chewing gum. When I give you Chewing gum. That's your life. No, I don't want that. So is there something in this society where people go and do the Spartan race because they want to feel. They want to feel the hardship and grow over that? Yeah, there's a need.

[A]

Well, iron sharpens iron. Right. And the war your pop fought in, you know, that was a galvanizing moment. Captured the imagination and the reality of the world. And so you didn't. You didn't have to walk around going, gosh, if only there were something purposeful and meaningful and challenging that I could do. It's right in front of you. Yeah. If that's not the thing, if maybe climbing El Capitan is not your thing, or paddling across the Atlantic or the Pacific is not your thing, it doesn't mean you can't find a thing. It doesn't mean you shouldn't look for the thing. Whatever the thing is, you're saying it should be difficult. There should be a very high chance of failure if you try it. Our friend Mike Easter, who's written a book I think you'd love, called the Comfort Crisis. You would love this. He talks about these adventures. I think they're called masagis.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Masagi.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, Japanese concept. But the idea is every year everybody should do a hard thing. Yeah.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

And by hard things, he says, probably won't kill you, but it could. Probably won't. You'll probably fail. It could be as simple as in 20ft of water or maybe 10ft of water a mile long. Taking a boulder and just moving it from one shore to the next, which involves a lot of dives and a lot of struggle and a lot of cold and miserable. Yes, do. Like. So I think a lot of what you've done, and I don't know what you talk about in front of crowds of people, but I hope it comes down to this idea that it's not enough to. As my old scoutmaster said, people will tell you that if you can embrace the suck or endure the discomfort, you're on your way, but that's really not enough. You actually have to figure out a way to love it. Yeah, well, that ain't me. You know, from time to time, it might have been me, but you don't seem to have an ounce of regret in you.

[B]

No, because. Okay, so when I do things, I don't know what I'm going to learn from it, but I know I'm going to learn something that I need to learn. Like, what are you doing out of your comfort zone that is going to teach you the things you have no idea exist. You know, that connection with the ocean. I read the books. I didn't feel it until I lived it. And I think what I'm trying to do is actually see why. I don't know. It's hard to seem like.

[A]

Well, you looked almost emotional earlier when you said that a month in, my body was essentially seawater. Oh.

[B]

Let me tell you this, okay? I've got a best story. This is exactly what happened. I was emotional. I was crying. I had this tear on my cheek, okay, which is salt water. At the same moment, the ocean splashed, and there was this drop of water on my leg. It was maybe a month and a half in. It was actually no day 50. And suddenly, one plus one. I was the ocean telling me, look, drop of salt water. You're me, I'm you. We're the same. You're literally a drop of water on the ocean. For three months, you've been drinking ocean water. 70% of your body, which is liquid, is ocean water. We're me, you're me. And then you look at the clouds. They're water. You look at the waves, you look at the fish. I'm sure they're water. You look at the birds. That's it. They're drinking. We're one. And I had this other epiphany, this moment of grace, of feeling the spirituality on the Atlantic. But with breath. I was also going through a hard moment. When I'm paddling and I'm just breathing deeply. You know how you control your. You hold it. After five minutes, I realized I was in sync with the waves. I was breathing with the swell. And the swell is pushed by the wind. The wind is breath of earth. And then you look at the clouds. They're moving with the wind. And then the waves crash. They create that white foam that oxygenates the water that the fish will breathe. I'm breathing. I'm breathing with earth.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that you can read in all the books, I'm sure. Yeah. Where is God? God is everywhere. What do you mean? He's the mountain. Yeah. He's the sun. I know. He's the air. He's the water. I know where God is. I call it the oneness that connect. I'm the fish. I'm the same as the fish. I'm the same as a tree.

[A]

Is this the flow?

[B]

Yeah, it's the flow. It's things you can't teach. You have to experiment. Now. That's what I want. When I Want to write by my book. I don't want to say day 50. I did 50 miles. I was bad. I want to explain what I've learned, and I'm happy to be able to do that here today so that people could say, shit. That's a part of the human experience. I haven't lived. Like, I don't know, like, I'm not going to cross. How can I live this in my own life? I'm going to walk along the pch. I'm going to stay a week silent. I'm going to do meditation, doing yoga in India, whatever you want. But find this. It's part of the human experience. You have to live this.

[A]

You know, it's just. I'm just thinking just to bring this back to me for a moment. The second time, No, I think it was the third time we ran into each other. I wasn't in a dark place, but I hadn't had a lot of sleep. And I had put the weight from my ruck from 40 to 65 pounds. And I hadn't really done that before. And I was walking the same route. So I was out for like eight, eight and a half miles. I had just turned around and I really wanted to be home. My back hurt, my shoulders hurt, my ankle hurt. I was sweating like a. In church and I had nobody to complain to. And that's when you pedaled up. He was like, yeah, I have done it.

[B]

I did the thing I said I.

[A]

Was going to do.

[B]

Do you remember the crazy Frenchman?

[A]

Yes. I'm like, oh, God, this guy. But no, I mean, we stopped and talked and that. Actually, that's when I called Chuck and I was like, look, man, this is. I just keep running into this guy. I think. I think maybe we should have him in.

[B]

There are no coincidences.

[A]

You agree that they're either no coincidences or it's all coincidence. Both make sense to me. It's that squishy combination of the two that makes me a little, you know. Quick sidebar. Another book called Longitude. Have you read this?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, I'm write this down for you.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, please.

[A]

Longitude was written by Devil Sobel, and it tells the story of the race to calculate longitude. Wow. Which was previously, I think it wasn't until maybe 1760 or 1770. It just couldn't be done. Because to get longitude, you need to be able to know what time it is on the ship to make the calculation. And there was no timepiece at the time that could give you an accurate measurement because everything was either you Know, hourglasses or these other things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And the motion of the ocean would make that impossible. So it tells the story of it. That's it. It's such. It's a short read, but the king of England put up a huge prize, like millions of dollars in today's money to figure this out. And it launched a giant race. And the guy who cracked the code was called John Harrison. And he did it. He won the prize, and he changed everything. And I just wonder, when you're out there thinking about all the things that allowed you to pull this off, imagine. Imagine doing it. Then talk to me about the Polynesians who figured this out. Yeah. Thousands of years ago and were in outriggers, basically, going from New Zealand to Papua New guinea or to Samoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, how do they know that, Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are special kinds of people that just say, it can be done. Let's go.

[A]

But they must have been, in relative terms, kind of common among their people. This is a thing they did. They just did it. And surely it wasn't a singular event, but now we do something like that, and it's, you know, the rest of the world is gobsmacked by it. Yeah. I mean, have we gotten softer? I mean, I know you said that the coddling thing is a thing, but I just wonder, as a species if we've really changed.

[B]

I think we like to be in control. Right. And When I was 25, I did a trip around the world, backpacking 26 countries in one year. Little money, 10 bucks a day. And I remember arriving in the country, okay, well, I'm in San Jose. What do I do? I'm in downtown. I need a hotel to find a hotel. And then next day, the hotel would tell you if you want to go. You could go mountain bike and see that volcano. You could go there. And I take. I would make my trip along the way. And now, like, you want to go to Nicaragua, you need to know every night where you're staying. No, you don't need to. You could just find that adventure side of you, get out of your. Like, again, the comfort zone or the safety. There's so much to be to be found there. I'm reading this book, another book. It's funny. The Art of Getting Lost.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I've heard of this.

[B]

I love it. It's exactly that. So how are you going to find the things that, you know, you don't know even exist? Like, you could walk in your hood all the time. You do the same path what if you get lost? I'm going to take right now. And then where do I go? I don't know. Take left. Oh, this little restaurant. Never. I want to sit down.

[A]

Well, that's the reverse commute. That's the. Well, you know, when you think about it, I mean, not only is very, very, very few people have done what you did. No one's ever taken the same route. Probably no one's ever taken the exact same route. Yeah, I mean, that's a. That's truly an untraveled path you took.

[B]

Yeah. There's more people that have been to space than crossing ocean in a kayak. That's why I do it, because nobody else does it.

[A]

Well, that maybe is the answer to the earlier question. And maybe that is ego a little bit. And maybe that's okay. I mean. Yeah, you know.

[B]

You know, there's this book, Man's Search for Meaning. Meaning. Yes. What's your purpose? What is that one thing that you and only you can bring to the world that if you were to die, the world would lose. Like, find this. Right. And that purpose is something that has never been done before. You're unique. How do you reveal that and just do it? I love this.

[A]

So in the same way that you enjoyed that trip so much because you didn't always know where you were going to be staying night to night, do you know what you want to leave the world with specifically? Have you figured that out yet as a result of your ventures?

[B]

It's very simple. I want to leave the people I meet better than I found them. It's very simple. It could be at the supermarket. Could be giving them energies when they need it or when they don't, whatever. And it could be a very local level. It could be in a podcast, it could be writing a book. It could be in a motivational speaking engagement. I speak to last time I was in France to 1500 kids. You never know who's going to come back in 10 years saying, Cyril, when I did my trip around the world, 25. I go to every school, put in my backpack a map of the world. Here's gonna do this. And here's my shoes, my whatever. Flip. And five years later, a guy comes. I was living in Santa Rosa, up north, Northern California. Comes with his bike and two buddies. It's Cyril. Five years ago. You're the one who gave me the spark that it was before.

[A]

What?

[B]

I love it. I love it. So my little purpose, maybe. Okay, there. I formulated it into five words. One is there, the second is Live. Third is learn. So I do this daring adventure that I live and I learn from them. And the fourth and fifth is share and inspire. Those two is what I give back to the world. You know, if I do that for the next 30 years, the world would be so. A little bit better.

[A]

I think so. I mean, look, part of the fun of it is you don't really truly know. You get little signs. You get just like the mustard seed, you know, you get reminders. I have a foundation. Right. And 3,000 people have gone through it and, you know, they've all learned to trade. Every now and then I'll run into one of them out in the world. But usually it's. It's a family member or, you know, a parent or somebody. And I understand to hear that your efforts have had an impact. Yeah, that is Frankel. That is the search for meaning. You know, when I watched Alex Hunold climb, I'm home, I'm comfortable, I'm sipping a bourbon and I'm watching this guy do something. And I, I wept when I saw that. I wept for the species and for me and for anybody who had ever, you know, dared to dream that big. I honestly, when I saw that, I thought it was as great an accomplishment as walking on the moon.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because it just, I imagine people felt that way when Frank Shorter broke the four minute. No, Roger Bannister broke the four minute mile. Just. We were told it couldn't be done. Yeah. And then someone does it. Yeah. And then within two years, 18 people had broken the four minute mile.

[B]

Yeah. I love it. But that's in the spirit of this country. I'm a citizen of the world. I've lived in Brazil, I lived in Argentina, in Spain, in England, in France, in Italy. I've. And I moved here. I was 32. Okay, you could. I know there's like the slogan. You could do anything you want. You could be president if you want. You could do them. Okay, so that's what you tell kids. And it's so true. But it doesn't have to stay at a slogan. You have to say, if you have discipline, hard work, ambition, sacrifice, you can do that. But as an immigrant now, I'm American too. I've been here 17 years. I was American 10 years ago. I'm both French and American, I believe, I think more in the American dreams than a lot of Americans, because they've been told that, but they take it for granted that how lucky they are. They don't even know how lucky they are. And we Come as immigrant with this energy. Like, I don't think I would have done what I've done if I were in another country. And it's not because I'm bragging about this country. California has got this energy that you're the average of five people you spend the most time with. Everybody says, yes, you can do it. Really? Okay, let's go. You know, it's amazing.

[A]

What is the American dream?

[B]

Well, I mean, the definition is that you could be better than your parents and you could do anything you want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You could start from scratch and go. I think for me, it's like if you have the willingness and the discipline and the courage, yes, you can do anything you want. It's not going to be given to you. Nobody gives it to you. But I think in the right environment. And this country is a terroir where if you plant it and you say, I'm going to water it every day, it's going to grow, it's going to grow.

[A]

Everybody I ever met who uses that word has some association with wine. Were you in the wine game?

[B]

I was 12 years in the wine business. That's why I moved here.

[A]

You're kidding.

[B]

Yeah, I was born that way. I'm French. We drink wine. When I was like, my dad would put a little bit of wine and water. I was French, 6 or 7.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that explains everything. What do you think of the state of wine in Napa right now?

[B]

Well, I mean, the wines are as good as they've ever been. Year after year, the climate is up and down. What it is. That's the climate. But the techniques are good, so the wine is good. The problem is, like, people are not drinking as much, so it's hard for them to make it financial sense. But it is what it is. I think quality has gone up. Very much so. And yeah, I'm the first one to start drinking beer with no alcohol. I have, like. The quality is so good. I like the beer. I don't have the alcohol. Great. I'm going to be better in my athleticism. I'll do that. And I think wine for me is a pleasure. It's not a drink that I drink to get drunk. It's just. Yeah, it was a good steak. You put nice cabernet.

[A]

Why wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah. Sorry to hopscotch around like this, but I wanted to ask you. I saw how you prepared physically for this, but I still don't quite understand. How do you prepare mentally? Can you.

[B]

Yeah, it's a hard one because I'm an extrovert. I love people. How am I going to be alone? Like, speak to me myself and I not seeing land or a human being or a tree for three months. So it's a question I had to think about deeply and. And there's no right answer. Everybody's different. I was going to try everything, you know, beginner's mind. Beginner's mind is. I want to try. I went to see everybody and say, hey, what if you had to do this? What, what would you do? And then I went to see a mental coach. I tried Wim Hof, Comb plunging and Sausalito in the middle of winter. You know, breathe in and it's cold. You want to escape. What do you do? I did hypnosis in India with a yoga. I was. I did one week in a yoga retreat in India.

[A]

What was that like?

[B]

Amazing. And this guy comes, he's a yogi. He's a guru from the OSHA family. Okay, Agyat, you gotta meet this guy.

[A]

Osha family.

[B]

The OSHA guru line.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Osha.

[A]

Not Occupational Safety Health Association.

[B]

Not that one.

[A]

Not yet. No, no, you don't want that.

[B]

He comes into Cyril, he's got this long beard all in. In orange, like you can imagine them. And is he serial with this, you know, head shaking? Oh, you're doing this adventure. Have you thought about hypnosis? Hypnosis? Isn't that for. To fix a trauma? Yeah, you could do that, but you could also create the core, the core beliefs at your unconscious that you can do this. And you say, come tomorrow, with 20 sentences that are the beliefs you want to have at your core. Okay, and over the top of my head is, you're doing it. You're not alone. You trust your instincts. Your instincts are powerful. I came with all these lines and then, you know, it does hypnosis. So it puts me on that bed, nice little music, Hindu style. And then it puts me in a deep sleep and it reads them to me very slowly for an hour and it records it and says zero. Okay, you're gonna listen to this every three days, every four, every day, if you can, until you go to create that sense of, I'm doing this. I'm not quitting. I'm not, you know, So I tried this. I tried. You name it. I don't know what, I don't know. I'll try it.

[A]

Where are you?

[B]

Right there on this picture. Arriving in Hawaii. That celebration. That's the I knew it moment now. I knew it. So I've got this flare in My hand, I'm like, yes, I've done it. And I haven't seen land in so long. But the uneven moment here. Let me explain to you what it means. Every entrepreneur or people that is trying to do something big that has never been done before has an image in his head. And I compare it to a puzzle. Okay. We think a project is linear, project A. And then you one step, two and three, right? No, it's a puzzle. And the puzzle, you got this pile of pieces. You got the box tells you what you need to do, and then you put one piece after the other. Well, in that case, it's never been done before. So there's no picture. You just got some pieces that only you can see. People are looking at your thing and say, hey, what. What is he trying to do?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I got this idea. I'm going to put this piece here and then another piece and. And they come in different times, so. And then there's pieces you have to create along the way because they don't exist. And the unit moment, that's when I saw land. And I said, I knew it. Finally, the piece is in front of me. And all the naysayers that I completely forgot, I said, no, I'm in the crazy Frenchman with this little boat. But I knew it. And it's not like, look at me. It's more. I'm glad I followed my instincts.

[A]

You mentioned Wim Hof. Have you seen that documentary? No.

[B]

I want to meet him. He's an amazing guy. I love him.

[A]

You know, I've always been interested, but I watched that doc a while ago and, you know, he. He went through a. A very specific kind of hell. I mean, he lost his wife, he lost everything. And his way back to sanity was through breath and these cold plunges and. And just being able to, you know, sit outside in sub zero temperatures for hours at a time. Yeah, just. It just changed his entire. His entire body. But you mentioned the cold plunge and I'm. And you also said you were wet all the time out there. Were you cold all the time?

[B]

No, the period of time and when I left were quite warm, but if you're wet and there's wind, you could get cold. So it's just about staying dry or having the right gear and changing the gear if it's wet and. And that's just, you know, preparing well and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but the cold plunge, did that help at all?

[B]

Yeah, because, look, just if it's just one idea I could give about this is accepting the Cold. If you're in the cold, shivering, you're fighting the cold, you're like, no, I'm cold. You're clenching your teeth. As soon as you say acceptance.

[A]

You.

[B]

Let the cold come in. And then you're okay, right? Breathe through it and it's the same. You're divorcing, you lose your job, somebody died, you have cancer. You could fight the certainty of the reality. As soon as you accept it, you.

[A]

Have a different perspective and you'll fight differently. I mean, you won't not fight, but you'll fight differently. You know, I don't have a cold plunge, but I still. I. Every shower either starts or ends.

[B]

Or is it cold?

[A]

With 2 minutes of cold and sometimes the whole thing. But I like to shave in the shower, and I have a tough time doing that.

[B]

So here's what I say about a cold plunge, cold shower. I do it every morning, okay? I arrive and you look at that shower, you say, I don't want it. Yeah, of course you don't want a cold shower. It's raining outside. It's cold. You contemplate your non willingness to do it and your weakness, right? Because you want comfort. And you. I'm gonna go. And you go in there, you turn cold, and you're like. You can yell, you can cuss, you say everything you want. You breathe in, and then you turn off the shower and you start with a win.

[A]

Well, no one in the history of time has ever congratulated themselves for taking a nice, hot, soapy shower. You did it.

[B]

You did it.

[A]

You washed your ass again in a nice warm bath. Congratulations. What are you gonna do right now? You're gonna drive back up to the Bay Area? Yeah. You're gonna work out today. You got well, seven hours.

[B]

I'm gonna stop to see my filmmaker. We're talking about a new project I have. I'm good always ideas. And I think, you know, if you put the energy out there, it's meant to come back at some point. So, hey, man, I'm gonna see my buddy.

[A]

That's great. It's great. What I want to leave people with is, you know, some days you're out for a ruck and it's heavy, and a crazy Frenchman comes up and says, it's me again, and then you invite him on. That's how your journey went. That's how my journey's going. I really don't know too much sometimes. I think the metaphor to leave people with really is that combination of what you talked about, the idea of that trip. You Took when you were in your 20s, where you didn't know from night to night where you were going to be sleeping. Juxtaposed with all the care you took prior to your adventure and to the documentary that you're very deliberately making, to the speeches you very intentionally give, and to the very conscious idea that you do have a notion of what you want to leave people with. It seems like certainty and uncertainty once again.

[B]

Yeah, it's a balance.

[A]

Two sides of the same coin.

[B]

It's a dense. You gotta adapt in the end. But. Yeah, let's go.

[A]

Where can I get one of those scarfs there? Oh, no, no. I'm not taking your scarf.

[B]

What are you talking about? It's yours.

[A]

This is real beautiful. Thank you. And the tattoo, you want to give a shout out to the.

[B]

It's pate. This guy.

[A]

You really got that yesterday.

[B]

Yesterday. So this is water and air. And when I arrived in Hilo, there was a volcano. And that was a groundedness of earth and the fire. So that was the two other elements that was missing on me. Now I need groundedness. And I used to use. Need to use my fire. I'm this little bird, because this is me. I need to spread my light.

[A]

You are something else, dude. You are something else. How do you say get out of your comfort zone in Italian? How would you say it in Portuguese? Are you bullshitting me? Really? Because. German.

[B]

Oh, I can. Nicht in Deutsch. No.

[A]

I'm so glad you introduced yourself to me and I hope you'll come back. You're welcome anytime. Okay. I would love it. And if I can be of use with this documentary or anything else, you know how to find me. A pleasure to meet you.

[B]

I'll just have to bike a runtie bar.

[A]

You just keep biking. You'll find me. You'll be. I'll be the guy grunting and sweating and cursing himself.

[B]

That red scarf.

[A]

You know, I can't take this from you, but it is not. You know what a scarf is such a simple thing, but, man, it really. It really does jazz up the look. Yeah, yeah, just like that. Got a beret?

[B]

No, I don't. I'll bring you the baguette too, if you want.

[A]

And whatever happened to Pepe le Pew? I missed that little guy, the skunk. He was a great one. That's you. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Ciro de Ramo.

[A]

De Ramo. Hi ho. Hi ho. It's Ciro de Moro. Is there a website where people can go to learn more about your fantastic self?

[B]

Yeah, Solo kayak. The Atlantic. That was the last one. And then just ask AI crazy French guy crossing an ocean you'll find crazyfrenchguycrossingocean.com.

[A]

What a piece of work you are. Thank you for your time.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Adios. That means goodbye. This episode is over now. I hope it was worthwhile. Sorry it went on so long but if it made you smile.

[B]

Then share.

[A]

Your satisfaction in the way that people do. Take some time to go online.

[B]

And.

[A]

Leave us a review. I hate to ask, I hate to beg, I hate to be a nudge but in this world the advertisers really like to judge. You don't need to write a bunch, just a line or two. All you got to do is leave a quick five star review. All you got to do is leave a quick 5 star review and not 3. All you got to do is leave a quick 5 star review. Definitely not 2. All you got to do is Leave a quick 5 star review. You need 5. All you got to do is leave a quick Even if you hate it 5 star. Especially if you hate it.

[B]

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