History (and Trump) Repeats with Jon Meacham

Summary

Summary of "History (and Trump) Repeats with Jon Meacham"

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Episode Title: History (and Trump) Repeats with Jon Meacham
Release Date: January 16, 2025

---

Introduction and Reunion After Absence

After a three-year hiatus, Jon Stewart returns to The Weekly Show with a profound sense of anticipation and trepidation surrounding the upcoming presidential inauguration. Stewart sets a reflective tone, highlighting the importance of historical perspective in understanding contemporary political dynamics.

Guest Introduction: Jon Meacham

Jon Stewart welcomes historian and presidential biographer Jon Meacham, praising his ability to provide insightful analysis on the nation's current state. Stewart emphasizes the significance of Meacham's perspective in a time of uncertainty.

---

Politicians as Mirrors of Society

Stewart:
"Politicians are mirrors of who we are in many respects, and not molders." [04:46]

Meacham:
"President Trump is a mirror of our most basic instincts. He has deepened and exacerbated many of our worst characteristics." [06:03]

Meacham elaborates on the idea that politicians reflect the society that elects them. He argues that Donald Trump embodies and amplifies America's underlying traits, particularly those related to division and power dynamics.

---

Historical Compliance with Founding Principles

Meacham:
"We've lived out of compliance with the Declaration of Independence far more often than we've lived in compliance with it." [07:03]

Drawing parallels between historical periods and the present, Meacham discusses America's intermittent adherence to its founding ideals, particularly around equality and democracy. He traces the nation's fluctuating commitment to these principles from the Civil War through the Civil Rights era.

Stewart:
"You have a founding document that says all men are created equal. And within the same document, some men are considered 3/5 of a human." [07:23]

This highlights the deep-seated contradictions within America's foundational texts and the ongoing struggle to fully realize their promises.

---

The Trump Presidency as a Populist Retreat from Democracy

Stewart:
"Donald Trump clearly has run in a manner that says, I want to accrue more power in the executive than maybe the founders in the Constitution are comfortable with." [13:37]

Meacham:
"It's a populist retreat from democracy." [13:44]

Meacham characterizes Trump's approach as a populist withdrawal from democratic norms, emphasizing a consolidation of executive power that challenges traditional checks and balances.

---

Media's Role and the Evolution of Communication

Meacham:
"Political power often accrues to those who master the means of communication." [28:30]

The discussion delves into how new media platforms have transformed political communication, mirroring historical shifts like the advent of radio and television. Meacham notes the challenges the left faces in adapting to these changes, referencing Al Gore's attempts to modernize political engagement with limited success.

---

Democracy in a Digital Age

Stewart:
"Democracy itself has to find a way for government to be more agile and responsive." [29:28]

Meacham concurs, emphasizing the need for democratic institutions to evolve in response to rapid technological and societal changes. He underscores the moral imperative of democracy as a reflection of societal values and interpersonal relations.

---

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections on Leadership

Meacham shares a story about George H.W. Bush:

"George Bush looked at me, really, as if I were crazy. And he said, listen to what he said. I'd never been stuck in a barrel, but if I had been, I'd want somebody to pull me out. It was a practical act of covenant. He might need help. So he gave help." [32:09]

This anecdote illustrates the moral character and leadership qualities that Meacham believes should define American presidents, contrasting with perceived shortcomings in contemporary leadership.

---

Legacy and the Importance of Historical Perspective

Meacham:
"Presidents can't have it both ways, right? You can't say in a country of 330 million people, I'm the one who should have the nuclear codes and then say, well, I didn't quite see that coming." [46:57]

He reflects on the complexities of presidential legacies, using Joe Biden's tenure to discuss the challenges leaders face in balancing power and responsibility. Meacham emphasizes that historical legacies are shaped by subsequent events and ongoing debates about leadership efficacy.

Stewart:
"What you have to do in the real world. Leave heavier people in the barrels." [35:22]

This metaphor underscores the difficult decisions and sacrifices inherent in leadership, particularly in contexts of national security and governance.

---

Optimism Amidst Cynicism

Meacham:
"Our better moments have always been counterintuitive, countercultural, elaborate." [37:35]

Despite discussing the darker aspects of American politics, Meacham remains optimistic, highlighting moments where the nation's commitment to its ideals has driven significant progress and moral victories.

Stewart:
"Meacham comforts me. He's like, he's my Campbell soup." [53:06]

Jon Stewart acknowledges the grounding and hopeful perspective that historians like Meacham provide, aiding in navigating through political turbulence.

---

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Historical Insight

The episode concludes with Jon Stewart expressing gratitude to Jon Meacham for his insightful analysis and personal reflections. Stewart emphasizes the importance of historical understanding in addressing current and future political challenges, advocating for a balanced perspective that acknowledges both flaws and potentials within American democracy.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jon Stewart:
  "The peaceful transfer of power can occur when you don't act like a little bitch when you lose." [00:30]

• Jon Meacham:
  "President Trump is a mirror of our most basic instincts. He has deepened and exacerbated many of our worst characteristics." [06:03]

• Jon Meacham:
  "We began the national experiment voluntarily by saying that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." [07:25]

• Jon Meacham:
  "It's a populist retreat from democracy." [13:44]

• Jon Meacham:
  "Political power often accrues to those who master the means of communication." [28:30]

• Jon Meacham:
  "Our better moments have always been counterintuitive, countercultural, elaborate." [37:35]

---

Key Themes and Insights

• Politicians as Societal Mirrors: Leaders reflect and amplify the values and flaws of the societies that elect them.

• Historical Compliance and Contradictions: America's intermittent adherence to its founding ideals underscores ongoing struggles with equality and democracy.

• Populism and Democratic Norms: The Trump presidency represents a populist shift that challenges traditional democratic structures and principles.

• Media Evolution and Political Power: Mastery of communication channels remains pivotal in shaping political power dynamics.

• Optimism Through Historical Understanding: Acknowledging historical successes amidst current challenges offers a pathway toward constructive progress.

Conclusion

This episode of The Weekly Show delves deep into the historical underpinnings of America's current political climate, offering rich analysis through the lens of Jon Meacham. By connecting past and present, Stewart and Meacham provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of how historical patterns manifest in contemporary governance, emphasizing the importance of learning from history to navigate future challenges.

Transcript

[Jon Stewart]

With thousands of free movies and shows, there's something for everyone on Pluto tv. They've got all the crime shows like ncis, CSI Tracker and Blue Bloods and great movies like Forrest Gump and Face off, all for free.

[John Meacham]

Pluto TV Stream now pay never. I don't want to get promoted. I want to stay charmingly insubordinate. I'm okay. Now streaming. Let's do this. Am I catching it? Now prepare for an adventure.

[Jon Stewart]

I know these guys.

[Bennett McNichol]

They're super nice.

[Jon Stewart]

Hey, what's up? What's up my man?

[John Meacham]

Five seasons in the making.

[Jon Stewart]

Damn it.

[John Meacham]

This is terrible. This keeps getting cooler by the second. Star Trek lower decks Final season now streaming.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, hello everybody. How have you been? It's Jon Stewart. It's the weekly showpod. We are back after a three year absence. Or what it feels like a three year absence in that. Boy, an awful lot of ups and downs and living has been put into those three years. This is being taped midweek before the inauguration which will take place, I believe. Although everything seems to be for some reason, everything with this transfer of power seems to be going very smoothly. As I had posited earlier. It is amazing how the peaceful transfer of power can occur when you don't act like a little bitch when you lose. But so that is occurring as of this recording. There is still some Los Angeles left. Please God, let this nightmare for those folks be done and let the healing and rebuilding of that area which is going to be a herculean and emotional task, please let that start in this moment. Boy, what an awful. And it really, I think accentuates the kind of tenuous moment that I think a lot of people are feeling themselves in know as we move towards this inauguration day and, and, and no one can know what's going to happen. But boy, trepidation is our constant companion as we lead into this. We've been promised shock and awe and not in the good way, I don't believe. You know, there are those moments of anticipation that you have. You know, there's some anticipatory moments where you're like, oh, tomorrow it's my birthday and we're having an ice cream bar. And then there's this moment of anticipation which feels a little bit more like I think my parents are sending me forcefully to a wilderness camp. There is, I just. Boy, you feel like you're staring down the barrel of something not fun. You know, there are a lot of things people can shoot at you through a barrel, one of them being a T shirt at a sporting event. And that's fun. But this doesn't appear to be one of those moments. But obviously I, I want to withhold certain judgment, but in these moments, I do find myself looking for historical perspective and solace. Truly like it does I, it does help me to view it through the prism of the cycles that we've been through in the country and, and the other up and down cycles and the terrible tribulations and the interesting triumphs and the unexpected moments and, and so the guest today on our, on our first pod back of 2025 is someone who I think is most able to provide that kind of perspective and content and, and context and, and thoughtfulness. So I'm just gonna damn get to it, for God's sakes. So let's do it. Welcome back. Weekly show podcast and our first guest. Folks, I can't think of anybody that I would rather talk to in this moment in time than the fabulous historian, bon vivant, gentleman and scholar, bon vivant John Meacham, presidential historian, author of and There Was Light, a biography of Lincoln Johnson. Welcome, John. Thank you for joining us in this moment of anticipation.

[John Meacham]

Bon vivant. Bon vivant.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you.

[John Meacham]

I love this. Thank you.

[Jon Stewart]

Welcome to the salon. Thank you so much for being here. You know, there's so much to talk about, but I want to go off of something that you've said often, which is politicians are mirrors of, of who we are in many respects, and not molders. Yeah, I think that's such an interesting concept with Trump. Then what is, what is the mirror here? Because it, he feels like a molder. If, if, if you could call him that. But, but what's the mirror? What, what is your sense of what this moment is saying about us?

[John Meacham]

Well, not to get too lost in the metaphor, but that's what I do. So we might as well. To mold, you have to amass power. And in that way, you tend to mirror. Right. So President Trump. And I just want to say something. I'm going to call him President Trump because one of the things that drove me crazy in the last 48 months was this snarky tone on the right, which was this. There was this creature who was in power called Biden.

[Jon Stewart]

So they didn't call him President Biden, they just said Biden.

[John Meacham]

I swear to God, you watch Fox all day long and it's just, and it, President Trump is a mirror of, I think, our most basic instincts. I think that he has deepened and exacerbated many of our worst characteristics and one of the arguments that we have and I Have this with people who are in power at the moment and will be for at least 48 more hours is people will say this isn't who we are. Well, of course it's who we are. We've lived out of compliance with the Declaration of Independence far more often than we've lived in compliance with it. That's not to say, oh, therefore it's all going to work out, or let's not do anything about that.

[Jon Stewart]

Unpack that though, a little bit because you, that, that's such an interesting thought because I unpack in terms of living outside the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, I've always sort of had that sense. You know, you have this founding document that says all men are created equal. And within the same document, some men are considered 3/5 of a human.

[John Meacham]

Yeah, different document, but yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

Is that the compliance? Right, different document, but is that the compliance you're talking about?

[John Meacham]

Yeah, yeah. I mean we. So we begin the national experiment voluntarily by saying that we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal. Didn't have to do that. But Jefferson, on one of the great committees of all time, Jefferson, Franklin, Sherman, Livingston and Adams, I would assign them anything to do. Must have been a great deck. You know, when Franklin ran through the deck, a white guy, a flawed 33 year old white guy, slave owner, articulated an ideal of human liberty unique in that time and place for someone with power to articulate that. So that's, you know, people who look like me did, you know, sort of set the standard. And then as you say, we immediately, 30 seconds later fell short of it. So 1776 to 1865, we allowed human enslavement. So out of compliance, seems to me we had a brief period after the Civil War where white folks who looked like me down here in the south could not vote because a lot of folks wouldn't take an oath back into the United States. But black folks could vote very briefly. And then there's a white reaction, white supremacist reaction in the 1870s. So let's just say for 10 years we were in compliance. Okay, so it's right. We got 10. Seriously, think about it.

[Jon Stewart]

No, you're dead on.

[John Meacham]

Then we go back out of it, right from really the 1876 election, which pulled federal troops out of the south as a price of Hayes beating Tilden. And then we really roll until 1965 where separate accommodations, incredible obstacles to franchise. And so basically, and there's a frequent argument about this, I believe it will be celebrating the 250th anniversary in a couple of years. I think we're 60 years old. I think we were founded in 1965. And in many ways, to bring this to exactly. To where we are, President Trump is in many ways a reaction to the implications of what unfolded in the country in 1964 and 65.

[Jon Stewart]

In terms of the Voting Rights act, are you talking also about immigration at that time?

[John Meacham]

Yeah. In terms of becoming a gen. Well, both becoming a genuine multiethnic, multiracial democracy. Democracy. And you're right, it was the Civil Rights act, it was the Voting Rights act, and it was the Immigration and Nationality act in 1965, which changed the.

[Jon Stewart]

Demographic of the country. It moved sort of immigration from that more Western European model to something that was browner.

[John Meacham]

Right. And for those who think that, oh, boy, if only it could be like it was in the old days, what the 1965 act did was repealed. The restrictive 1924 act, which, as you say, established these national quotas that emphasized Northern Europe. And that's what was in place when the Roosevelt administration chose to follow the letter of the law and not allow more refugees in from Nazi Germany. So that's how this matters.

[Jon Stewart]

Right? Right.

[John Meacham]

So, look, this is who we are. Right. I have argued for a long time, you and I have had this argument that the remarkable thing about the country is that we get as much right as we do. And that's a really easy thing for me to say. You know, I. I'm a boringly heterosexual, white, Southern male Episcopalian. Right.

[Jon Stewart]

Is that your Tinder? Is that your Tinder profile? Is that what's on there?

[John Meacham]

Boring, heterosexual, white, Southern male Episcopalian.

[Jon Stewart]

All right.

[John Meacham]

You know, and we had a hell of a run.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah.

[John Meacham]

You know, we. Yeah, we had about 10,000 years. And. And there are a lot of folks who are thinking, wait a minute, we're not going to be in charge. And this is a reaction to that.

[Jon Stewart]

Or it's a loss of absolute power. It's sort of this idea that that would be the default setting of the country. And. And that is the quote, unquote, meritocracy, and that anything that deviates from that. And so what does it say then? Because I think this brings it back to your interesting point, which is. And we have chosen a kind of retreat from that. You know, 2016 was kind of felt like an anomaly. The popular vote was lost. It was a surprise. This feels. It's not, you know, Reagan winning 49 states, but it's a much stronger argument to a broader coalition and a choice that the country, the country's made a choice. Made a choice. And I'm wondering, does it reflect, and maybe this is a broader point for America in general, but does it reflect. It's a democratic repudiation in some respects of democracy. If that, if, if that contradiction can make sense. Donald Trump clearly has run in a manner that says, I want to accrue more power in the executive than maybe the founders in the Constitution are comfortable with. I want the Supreme Court to grant me immunities that seem utterly at odds with so many of the other checks and balances that go along there. And it is a democratic approval in some ways, of kind of an anti or less democratic movement. Does that make sense?

[John Meacham]

The one edit I would make is it's a populist retreat from democracy.

[Jon Stewart]

Why do you say things better than I do?

[John Meacham]

I'm sorry. I know, I know.

[Jon Stewart]

I really don't care for that.

[John Meacham]

I know, I know. And you are Edward R. Murrow.

[Jon Stewart]

You should be a writer.

[John Meacham]

If Edward R. Murrow and Johnny Carson had a baby, it's you. Are they allowed to do that now?

[Jon Stewart]

Probably they are now. They wouldn't have been allowed to do that a few years ago, but they're allowed. They're allowed to do it now. So is that, does that put us at more risk then. Yes, as this goes along?

[John Meacham]

Okay, yes, it does. It's. It does. And, And I'm not trying to be alarmist. Right, no, no, I understand. I, I thought Trump was a difference of degree, but not kind. And from. You talked about 16 until 2020, and really the aftermath of the election, I mean, it was. He. The stuff he did was reprehensible. It was a corrosion of the presidency as an institution that I revere. I found myself with my children trying to explain why their father spends his time recording the history of something that seems so flawed and, oh, wow, you.

[Jon Stewart]

Even thought of it in a manner of. I've spent my life kind of revering the history of this system, and to watch it be so casually discarded made you question the things that you were doing. Why record something that is now, this. I don't know. Tenuous.

[John Meacham]

Yes. And that part, the answer to that part should be, well, in fact, that is the answer I have, which is the fact that it is tenuous and contingent means we have to tell the stories of moments of both peril and possibility, because this is what we've got. And so I didn't question the efficacy of the work, if that makes sense. Yeah. But it was an emotional sadness, and here's just a quick story about it. So On Ash Wednesday, 2021, I'm sure you remember where you were.

[Jon Stewart]

I, you know me, I'm the one who's. I got. I'm the guy with the pots with the ashes. Just go do whatever you want. Somebody's got to gather them.

[John Meacham]

Burning the palms.

[Jon Stewart]

That's right.

[John Meacham]

But I remember because I was going up to what I was at a meeting in Washington and I had my daughter, who was then 16, 17.

[Jon Stewart]

Okay.

[John Meacham]

Wanted to go up and I had the. We had the opportunity to run, see someone whose office was in the Capitol.

[Jon Stewart]

And just go ahead and say the President. Just say the President.

[John Meacham]

Well, no, they were going to say the President. No, I was seeing the President later. But that. But that day it was the Capitol itself. All right, fair enough. But I had some time and so went up to see a lawmaker. And I hadn't realized this is February 2021. The amount of fencing and the number of National Guardsmen around the Capitol and the reaction I had was a kind of embarrassment that my daughter, for whom this would be a formative political memory, saw this as we are having to erect barriers to keep Americans who are trying to seize power at any cost. And this is just. This should not be who we are. Not that it isn't, but it is who we should not be. So we don't need to keep doing my therapy. But I appreciate it.

[Jon Stewart]

No, that's what we're here for today.

[John Meacham]

I appreciate that.

[Jon Stewart]

To heal John Meacham who is at odds with his own career.

[John Meacham]

Right.

[Jon Stewart]

Okay. Gotta take just a quick break and we shall be right back. Oh, such a clutch off season. Pickup, Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant Those blackout motorized shades. Lines.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install. No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some from my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and skeptical. Scheduled a professional measure and install hall of fame son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the goat.

[John Meacham]

Go to blinds.com for 40 off site wide. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply.

[Jon Stewart]

The Showtime Original Series. The Agency Lie to everyone. Risk your life on a daily basis. No glamour. No exploding watch. Starring Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Wright, Jody Turner Smith and Richard Gere. The CIA sends out into the world to behave in dangerous ways. Whatever it takes. Make it impressible. You deploy undercover for years, people come back.

[John Meacham]

Damage from that. This is The Agency.

[Jon Stewart]

Nothing is Personal. The Agency new series now streaming on the Paramount plus with Showtime plan. We are back. You know, I wonder, though John isn't Trump in some respects, it's almost a throwback presidency to a time of kind of manifest destiny. Like there is. There are things about his presidency that are explicit, you know, explicitly 19th century values. There's a certain amount of Seward's folly and there's a certain amount of.

[John Meacham]

It's the Mexican war, it's Polk.

[Jon Stewart]

Right. When it was, you know, and, and to be purposefully crass, it is a theory of power that he expressed in his interview with Billy Bush, which is we're going to grab them by the whatever. And, and, and that is how America in some respects used to operate. And is Trump just explicitly expressing the implicit way that America has operated in the world? Are we overreacting to. Based on his style rather than what he is actually saying to do? Like when he says, hey, Greenland, underneath you are all these things that are very important to us. So I hate to tell you this, we're going to have to take you over as opposed to the modern presidency, which would be, Greenland, we would love to elevate you democratically in a. Like, we would couch it in higher value and higher morals, but ultimately the result being a slightly imperialistic and colonial grab. Does that make sense?

[John Meacham]

It does. Would we invite them to a yellow pad conference, give them a free fleece, and then take their country?

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[John Meacham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Brookings approach as opposed to the bullying. Brookings versus bullying. That's right. Is where we are. Yes, is the answer. I'm all for vigorous and unconventional debate. The Greenland thing was one of those moments where you're sort of sitting there and you're thinking, this is crazy, but then you go, huh, I wonder, maybe we want Greenland. You know, I mean, it's sort of that.

[Jon Stewart]

We've certainly tried to buy it in.

[John Meacham]

The past, you know, so. And it's not top of mind, I think, for a lot of people. I don't think I live in Nashville. I don't think down on Broadway, you know, they're singing Friends in Low Places and thinking Greenland.

[Jon Stewart]

Maybe not. But I'll tell you what, Chattanooga, they've been about this for years.

[John Meacham]

Hey, don't. Don't mess with the home folks.

[Jon Stewart]

All right? Fair enough.

[John Meacham]

Moon Pies and, and Coca Cola, right?

[Jon Stewart]

Believe me, if the ingredients to make Moon Pies were underneath Greenland, they'd be all about it, brother. They'd be down there.

[John Meacham]

So if he wants to bring up crazy stuff, that's perfectly fine to me. I just don't want him to try to steal elections. I don't want him bullying judges. I don't want him appointing only the cast of Fox News to hold ultimate power.

[Jon Stewart]

Right.

[John Meacham]

And look, people like us, I mean, I think a lot of folks on the right might say that the people on this screen right now are one of the reasons Donald Trump is president. I think that exaggerates, to say the least.

[Jon Stewart]

I lay it mostly at my feet. I don't.

[John Meacham]

Well, you should.

[Jon Stewart]

I think you're out clean, but I think it's mostly at my feet.

[John Meacham]

Well, let me tell so one more story.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah.

[John Meacham]

So this is where. And this is since we're doing full therapy. So I am famous. Not famous.

[Jon Stewart]

You are famous.

[John Meacham]

No, no. On the right. There's a trope in that part of the world. On the night of the final presidential debate in 2020, this is another thing about my children. It was here in Nashville. It was that horrible one, remember, where Trump wouldn't stop talking and all that. It was really embarrassing. And I took another child of mine down to the actual debate. I'd never been in a hall for one of those.

[Jon Stewart]

Not have, like a great adventure down there. Is it always. Every time you take. Every story about your children is like. And I took them to a legislative session where they got to watch a certain amount of gerrymandering that was occurring.

[John Meacham]

And then we went to the subcommittee.

[Jon Stewart]

Are they ever like, dad, you know, they make roller coasters you can get on them?

[John Meacham]

No, no, no, we don't do that. We're, we're very, very serious here. So. And I came back and I, I do my TV stuff from my basement. And so I was, I was doing, say commenting at, say, 11pm and it had really been a kind of, again, unsettling moment where you had an incumbent president trying to bully a former vice president. It just wasn't where we wanted to be, in my view. And it was one of these things where President Trump had kept talking about the mayor of Moscow. He's speaking in this kind of Fox News.

[Jon Stewart]

That's right. Russia, Russia, Russia and all that. Yeah.

[John Meacham]

And different illusions I didn't fully understand. So I was sitting there talking probably to Brian Williams and what do you think? And I said, you know, something to the following effect. You know, Donald Trump basically appeals to the white man's lizard brain.

[Jon Stewart]

Right.

[John Meacham]

And it's sort of this elemental thing, which is what I meant. Now, that was a Gift wrapped to right wing ecosystem. Because suddenly it became that I had called Trump supporters lizard brains. Right. And it was a fair. And it was fairly. There were threats, you know, there was, you know that. All that stuff.

[Jon Stewart]

Familiar with that?

[John Meacham]

Yeah, absolutely. You are more so. And it was a lesson to me that you can't walk into it. The basic point I was trying to make was that there is an elemental feel here. Greenland is part of that. Right. It's like, all right, as you were just saying, we want to grab it. One of the things that worries me most, and tell me if you're seeing this in your world. I think this exhaustion, the resistance, exhaustion is a very real thing.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, no, I think there's, there's no question about that. I think, you know, you, you spoke of, you know, January 6th in 2020 being a demarcation point for you. And I, and I feel the same way. You know, we can talk about degrees of expansionist rhetoric or all kinds of other things or, you know, Trump certainly isn't the first president who has enemies lists or who is doing things explicitly through the influence of, know, corporate power, any of these other things. They're all in there. The line of demarcation for me, always within, you know, a democracy that has a peaceful transfer of power is a democracy until there's no pe. Until the person decides, like, hey, you know what? I think maybe I'm not leaving like that, to me, is the moment. And rather than that moment being disqualifying, you know, that moment seemed to be in some respects a rallying point. We didn't get to do it this time. And then to see that, I guess what you would say, devaluing of the democratic process be rewarded with a grander victory than what it was, I think is the most dispiriting part of it that I'm seeing. But the second part of it, John, is, and I'm curious what you think about this. You know, every new media is going to create some kind of a change in structure, a kind of seismic shift, whether it was radio, whether it was tv. I think they are better at this new me. They are Kennedy and television when it comes to this new media, as opposed to, and I think the Democrats are Nixon with the sweaty lip going, I don't need, I don't need makeup. I look great. You know, I think that's part of it. When you talk about, I said lizard brain by mistake and they took it, I think a let me in our therapy session, excuse you because you can't outsmart social Media, you cannot be so careful. I would urge you not to be because it doesn't matter. Your framing, it doesn't matter. A casual slip. They will find the root of attack and there will be a relentlessness to it that you just have to accept as part of it is the congestion pricing of having an operating and artisan talk shittery, of being someone who expresses opinions. But it's not real. Those. Those have been weaponized for that. But I don't think that the left has figured out in any manner how to make that work for them.

[John Meacham]

I think that's right. And I. It's one of the great mysteries, you know, Al Gore tried to fix this 20 years ago.

[Jon Stewart]

In what way?

[John Meacham]

Remember the current. Remember he started a network?

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, yeah.

[John Meacham]

Remember Current. You know. You know, and it was, you know, and it's just an interesting thing. And it's also, you know, we shouldn't whine about it. Political power, as you say, often accrues to those who master the means of communication.

[Jon Stewart]

Right. But also the message. I think what. And here's where I think it's a more difficult situation than I think people give it credit to. It's not just Trump as a bad actor or January 6th or any of those things. I think increasingly democracy is an analog system in a digital world and the chasm that. That creates between the emotional catastrophizing of. Of its people versus the kind of glacial pace of change. I do think democracy itself has to find a way for government to be more agile and responsive. I have sympathy for those who believe that our government is not responsive to the discomfort of its own people. In. In large measure, yes.

[John Meacham]

And the. One of the first times that argument was made was by Anne Morrow Lindbergh. Charles Lindbergh.

[Jon Stewart]

You're taking us back to America first.

[John Meacham]

Yes.

[Jon Stewart]

I thought you were going to say William Jennings Bryan. I had no idea you were going.

[John Meacham]

Lindbergh and Morrow.

[Jon Stewart]

Lindbergh, you are a man of surprises. Me.

[John Meacham]

That's me, baby. It's called the Wave. It was. The book was called the Wave of the Future, and it was a big best seller in the forties. Yep. And it. The argument was that what was happening in Rome, Berlin and Moscow was more suitable to a globalized world that was shrinking because of air power and technology.

[Jon Stewart]

Wow.

[John Meacham]

And that a totalitarian system might be more commensurate with the challenges of a world that required quicker national action. And I've heard American presidents talk about this in private, you know, not that they're for it, but that they Understand the impulse. And to me, democracy is fundamentally a moral question, and not in a Sunday school way, but it's how we are with each other. Right. And I'm on the right side of the economic equation. And I would probably. I'm certain I would have a different view or different views if I were in a different place or if I were a different person. That goes without saying. But the moments in American history where we have done things that we tend to commemorate and say we want to emulate have been moments where we have decided that giving was as important as taking. Right.

[Jon Stewart]

You're going better angels on us.

[John Meacham]

I'm going better angels on us. But it's a 5149 thing, and it's not. Here you go. It's not better angels because it's just the right thing to do. So here's another story.

[Jon Stewart]

Where did you take your kids this time, John? We went to an essay contest.

[John Meacham]

This is gonna be actually. Get ready. This is about Greenwich Country Day school in the 1930s.

[Jon Stewart]

So you can't get more Episcopalian than that.

[John Meacham]

Sir George Herbert Walker Bush.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah.

[John Meacham]

Was the most glamorous boy in the school.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[John Meacham]

I'm sure he was about to go off to Andover to boarding school. There was an obstacle course race at Greenwich Country Day School. He always won it. The faculty came to him in his last year and said, would you let everybody else have a head start? He said, sure. Whatever that voice would be when you're 13. There was a boy in the school named Bennett McNichol. Come on, get ready.

[Jon Stewart]

Not true.

[John Meacham]

Bennett McNichol was a fairly rotund lad. He had not paid attention to Mrs. Obama's school lunch program. That's important to the story, right?

[Jon Stewart]

But he will pay attention to RFK Junior School lunch program.

[John Meacham]

Get ready.

[Jon Stewart]

All right.

[John Meacham]

Everybody goes off. Then Bush goes. He's going through a series of barrels on the ground, narrow barrels in the obstacle course. And he pops out, and he looks to his right, and Bennett McNicol is stuck in the barrel. Can't get out. Bush reaches down, pulls Bennett out, says, come on, Bennett. We'll finish this together. All right? It's the kind of story, right, that a presidential family tells about their chieftain to say what a great person he was. But I didn't hear it from a Bush. I heard it from a McNicol. And so I took it to the old man. This was 10, 15 years ago. And I said, Mr. President, I just heard this story about Bennett McNichol. First thing he said was, Bennett, he loved lunch. Said, no, no, no. That's not really not the point, sir. Is he still big? I said, not the point. I said, why did you. Why did you take him out of the barrel? And George Bush looked at me, really, as if I were crazy. And he said, listen to what he said. I'd never been stuck in a barrel, but if I had been, I'd want somebody to pull me out. It wasn't. I did it because it was the right thing to do. I did it because my better angels told me what to do. I did it because my mother read me the Bible. It was a practical act of covenant. He might need help. So he gave help.

[Jon Stewart]

And that was the first point of light.

[John Meacham]

Yep, There you go.

[Jon Stewart]

The. The thousand points of light.

[John Meacham]

There you go.

[Jon Stewart]

Okay, we're going to take a quick break and be right back. Roll out. Transformers 1 is now streaming on Paramount plus awesome.

[John Meacham]

It's the blast from beginning to end.

[Jon Stewart]

Okay, stop. I'm in. Transformers 1 radio PG now streaming on Paramount plus on January 24th, Academy Award.

[John Meacham]

Winner Michelle Yeoh takes command. Gather your people. We're gonna need every one of them.

[Jon Stewart]

In Section 31, a new Star Trek.

[John Meacham]

Original movie on Paramount Plus.

[Jon Stewart]

Section 31 is just a place for people to bend the rules.

[Bennett McNichol]

Starfleet is here to make sure no one commits.

[John Meacham]

Mercury. What a cute idea. This is chaos.

[Jon Stewart]

Let's get messy.

[John Meacham]

Don't miss the worldwide premiere of Star Trek section 31, streaming January 24th, exclusively on Paramount Plus.

[Jon Stewart]

We are back. So this is. In some respects, you're looking at this as the American public has in some ways voted for the more Hobbesian approach.

[John Meacham]

Bingo.

[Jon Stewart]

That the idea is. That's a lovely sentiment and. But here's what you have to do in the real world. Leave heavier people in the barrels, because.

[John Meacham]

Otherwise, you gotta keep moving. You gotta go beat China. Yeah, China's over here. Leave poor Bennett. Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is where if the Hobbesian scholars write in, you respond. But again, it's Hobbes versus Locke.

[Jon Stewart]

Right.

[John Meacham]

Locke was sort of. Well, the state of nature is we all believe in liberty and each other. Hobbes said, no, it's the war of all against all. That's the state of nature. And that the state of nature requires a strong man, a monarch to run it. And that's absolutely where we are.

[Jon Stewart]

So. But in that, were we kidding ourselves about Locke. I mean, in some respects, isn't what then HW would represent is a benevolent dictator as opposed to a more ruthless one. Because I guess that was My point originally, are we kind of putting on blinders? And this brings us around sort of more full circle to what we're talking about, which is, are we now seeing our system more clearly as it is? Like even. Let's talk about, you know, there's this sort of. Kind of idea of, you know, money controls our system. Well, now we're seeing it explicitly, you know, and it's always sort of hidden and, you know, lobbying groups and all that. Meanwhile, Elon Musk comes in and says, I'll give you $270 million and that investment will pay off in $200 billion. Are we just seeing the dynamics of the system? Is it like those watches, if you remember, you know, there was those old watches where you could turn them over and you could see how it worked.

[John Meacham]

Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

And you could see the gears. Are we really just seeing the gears now in a way that's more explicit? And were we kidding ourselves that this country really was a country of pulling people out of barrels?

[John Meacham]

I think.

[Jon Stewart]

Is that too cynical?

[John Meacham]

No, no, it's not.

[Jon Stewart]

It's not. I'm sensing your disappointment.

[John Meacham]

No, it's. It's. I'm thinking. Because I want to. I think this is. This is why history has a. Has a moral utility. I think that. I think that it's. And to be serious for a second, it is absolutely rational to have a cynical, fatalistic reaction to the fact that 49.9% of the voters chose to do this again. And all I would say is that I could make a pretty good case that our better moments have always been counterintuitive, countercultural, elaborate. It took. Think. So Franklin Roosevelt, who redefines the relation of the state and the country, eliminates poverty among the elderly with Social Security, you know, took people, gave them some dignity, gave them some work, didn't really want to integrate war contracts and rounded up the Japanese Americans.

[Jon Stewart]

So. So Hobbes and Locke working together in one person. Right.

[John Meacham]

And so we've been doing this since the third chapter of Genesis. Right. And we are. We're driven by apple. There was a piece of fruit. They said, don't take it. We said, no, no, I want that.

[Jon Stewart]

The one thing we had, everything. And then.

[John Meacham]

And then fruit.

[Jon Stewart]

One week in, they're like, you know what I would like?

[John Meacham]

Fruit.

[Jon Stewart]

Some kind of a crumble. What do you think? Apple crumble.

[John Meacham]

We did it for Harry and David's.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, forgotten.

[John Meacham]

We did it for a box of pears.

[Jon Stewart]

What is wrong with us?

[John Meacham]

But therefore, the fact that Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson and George HW. Bush and Joe Biden. The fact that flawed, sinful, broken people were still able in extremists to do something that broadened the mainstream, that put us a little more in compliance with the Declaration is not something you were. The way you articulated a second ago was a glass half empty. I think that it's, I don't want to say it's half full, but it's a quarter full. And I think that's what makes history. I think that's what is a source of hope, is that realizing that all these people in the past were just as miserable as we are. Right? Yes, they were. You know, they had terrible days and they had good days. And so I remember running across this. If you go to the Lincoln Memorial, you know, it's the great temple, right? It's otherworldly, it's divine, but then you go in and it's the face of a human being.

[Jon Stewart]

Right? Still a pretty large face, very large.

[John Meacham]

That's the tension.

[Jon Stewart]

It's, it's awe inspiring even. I find that that memorial is the one for me that I think is most visceral in our pantheon. You know, when you go down there, I've always found that, you know, I've never been much, you know, impressed by marble and limestone and the structures and boy, when you walk into treasury, you really go, oh, you're expecting a revolution. Because like, when you walk into treasury, you really go, so where's Marie Antoinette's office? Yeah, right, Because I'd like, I'd like to go see her. Like it is gilded to the, to the nines. And, and you really do get a sense of if the people find out, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna have you melt down some of this gold leaf and tumbles. That's exactly right. But there is something about the simplicity of the Lincoln Memorial, the scale of it that I have always. And also because I view this civil war always as our darkest moment and in some respects our most fortunate to have had the north, the non slave owning side, triumph. Because without that, I just don't know what this all would have been for. If that makes sense.

[John Meacham]

That's true. And it's another thing again on our therapeutic now for you.

[Jon Stewart]

I am optimistic, John. I don't want to give you the wrong impression. I remain optimistic.

[John Meacham]

Well, I'm, I'm dork Klonopin here. And so I want to offer you something. So to me, the thing is that Americans never, as president, literally, we never just wake up and say, hey, let's do the right thing, right. We didn't wake up in 1861 and say, you know what? Human enslavement. Let's phase it out. Let's, you know, this is bad. No, we killed probably 750,000 people. And in a country of what, 20 million people, this is huge. You know, in the Gilded Age, the musks of the late 19th century didn't wake up and say, you know what? 40 hour work week, right.

[Jon Stewart]

Unionized.

[John Meacham]

You know what? We. Maybe we should.

[Jon Stewart]

It was always born of violence to a large extent.

[John Meacham]

Violence and the tension between conscience and appetite. And, and the central. To your, to your Hobbs Point, the central thing as we head into this next week, power, right? And everybody wants it. That's from the third chapter of Genesis forward. The remarkable thing about this particular national experiment is that we've kept it from being. We have managed to. Let's throw Montesquieu in.

[Jon Stewart]

How can you.

[John Meacham]

Not exactly how. We've managed to divide power in a way that has its frustrations, but it has kept this rickety ship afloat. And maybe. You know what? I think the founders would have been surprised that we lasted this long with this little renovation. I really do. I mean, think about me. If you were like, you know, like, we're only going to amend the thing.

[Jon Stewart]

They would not have viewed what they wrote as so sacrosanct as Genesis.

[John Meacham]

Oh, my God, I love. It's one of my things. That's a different conversation. But this idea, this idea that a bunch of newspaper call the Federalist papers were like super tweets. I mean, they were like, they were newspaper pieces.

[Jon Stewart]

Right?

[John Meacham]

And that's now St. Paul. I mean, my goodness.

[Jon Stewart]

And isn't it interesting that even today we're kind of having the argument, you could almost make the point that the populist right are the anti Federalists. They're the one. They're the anti federalists. They're. They're much more in line with a kind of unitary executive and moving along those lines. But you brought up something interesting. And I know you're on a tight schedule and I want to honor your. Your time, but I wanted to make sure before you left, you said something earlier that I thought was really interesting.

[John Meacham]

Which is, thank God, one thing.

[Jon Stewart]

This idea. Shut up. This idea of power. And I wonder, can you make the same critique? Because for President Biden, who is now leaving on, I think, a much more obviously melancholy note than what you would have imagined and is sitting in that office, power does not often cede itself. And I know that you know, and you had written about the Cincinnatus moment and him stepping away. Do you think that that human flaw is in some ways what didn't allow the president to see maybe his own limitations in that moment and those around him and that same dynamic that pushes us towards these other changes and trying to get closer to, as you said, the pact that we made in the declaration. Do you think that was what was at play in that moment?

[John Meacham]

Yes, I think that the forces, the characteristics that drove President Biden to the pinnacle of power at a very late season in his life in a Greek way, were the characteristics and the habits of heart and mind and yes, appetite that propelled him into a campaign that self evidently he shouldn't have done. He's my friend. I help him when I can. I don't talk about our conversations. So I'm in a very weird position here. But I don't want to be dishonest either.

[Jon Stewart]

Sure, I understand.

[John Meacham]

And so I think that unquestionably, as history looks at President Biden, this remarkable 50 year public life, it is a period of tragic lows and unexpected highs. You know, he was left for dead politically in presidential terms again and again and makes that last campaign in 2020 at what is hard to remember sometimes how dark that hour was. Presidential legacies always depend on what comes next. And so I think we're going to be debating this forever. But will, let me put it this.

[Jon Stewart]

Way, if this is another kids trip, I don't want to hear it.

[John Meacham]

No, no, no. So presidents can't have it both ways, right? You can't say in a country of 330 million people, I'm the one who should have the nuclear codes and then say, well, I didn't quite see that coming. Right, right. So to much is given, much is expected. And President Biden will for the, the debate about his legacy. And arguably every time he's discussed in historical terms, people will have to deal with the following question. Was the skill set that produced 48 months of results, was that worth, worth the price of the political confusion that unfolded in 2024?

[Jon Stewart]

That's the question, right? Well, it's a question that I'm sure that Jon Meacham will be answering because Jon Meacham answers questions. And I don't want to listen, John. I don't want to give away too much of your hidden life, but when we first, when we first came on to the program and John was kind enough to join us on the podcast, he was reading just for pleasure. I want to make this very clear this was not assigned. This is not part of a long standing work. John, Would you mind holding up?

[John Meacham]

Do you want to see it?

[Jon Stewart]

You want to. Yeah. M. Eisenhower, ladies and gentlemen. This is a man.

[John Meacham]

Look at this.

[Jon Stewart]

At home in his study. Give it. He could be doing anything. Candy Crush. It could be anything.

[John Meacham]

It could be Candy Crush.

[Jon Stewart]

And in that moment, it is a book on Mamie Eisenhower.

[John Meacham]

Blurbed by Claire Boothluce.

[Jon Stewart]

What I know notoriously, very flinty about putting the blurbs out.

[John Meacham]

Very promiscuous in her blurbing.

[Jon Stewart]

May I ask what Claire's opinion was of this Mamie Eisenhower? Just to. To. To end this, to put a button on the entire conversation.

[John Meacham]

All right. This book is written by Alden Hatch. It was published in. Let's see. It was published in 1954. It was big in 54.

[Jon Stewart]

Had to be.

[John Meacham]

Had to be. Alden Hatch is a personal friend of Mamie's. So it's got hard hitting.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, he had access.

[John Meacham]

He had access. This, by the way, is also. This is the complete and unabridged. So there may have been an abridged version of Red Carpet for Mamie. And the blurb from Congresswoman Loose is M. Eisenhower is beloved and admired by millions of American women. Apparently the men didn't think about.

[Jon Stewart]

The men didn't care for him. Yeah.

[John Meacham]

Alden Hatch's book makes you understand why that's good.

[Jon Stewart]

That is good. You know what a good Loose qu. And that probably is what shot that to the top. And for those of you who haven't seen the movie, Ava Gardner was triumphant.

[John Meacham]

Well, I'm writing, I'm doing a biography of Eisenhower and so fantastic. I'm going to spend the rest of the day worried about the battle for Tunisia, if you can.

[Jon Stewart]

I tell you something though. It is. I so love the idea because Eisenhower today would be considered a communist. So I love the idea that it's coming out there. That a man who warned against the military industrial complex and understood and just wanted to build roads. Like the idea that you're putting that out there. Yeah. Delightful. Jon Meacham, I can't thank you enough for this therapy session, for everything that you brought in there, Jon Meacham. And there was light. You've got to read a wonderful biography of Lincoln. John, thanks for joining us.

[John Meacham]

Thank you, John.

[Jon Stewart]

Man. First of all, welcome back, guys. Jillian, Lauren, Brittany, I hope you guys all had a well deserved break and you enjoyed yourselves. But you know, Meacham comforts me. He's like, he's my Campbell soup. Like there's something about the, the breadth of knowledge, the made up names. Bennett McNichol. Claire Booth loose. Come on, man. None of that shit is real.

[Bennett McNichol]

To begin a story with George Herbert Walker Bush was the most glamorous boy in the school. It's just, it's so genteel.

[Jon Stewart]

He talks like people write. He just talks that way.

[Bennett McNichol]

Yeah, he's like an Edith Horton novel.

[John Meacham]

Yeah.

[Bennett McNichol]

Yeah. I really thought that barrel story was going to end in that. And that was the inspiration for no Child Left behind or something like that.

[Jon Stewart]

Right. He was gonna tie it around. Although if I'm the McNichol. Family. Oh, yes. And you do wonder, like as President, if Bennett McNichol, he just would sit there just stewing in his. You'd never, you know, he. I Wonder if Bennett McNichol was just like, you didn't pull me out of that barrel. I got myself out of that barrel, you bastard.

[Bennett McNichol]

Next week on the weekly show, we have Bennett.

[Jon Stewart]

But everything. It's so funny when you realize this country was so steeped in all the iconography of its ruling class of Protestants and Episcopalian and like, as Carlin would say, it's a big club and you ate in it like it was a country club. And that's the default setting that we all sort of work off of. And deviating from that. There is like a strange discomfort in that. And it's funny when he talks about we're 60 years old and I'm like, wait, I'm 62. I'm older than. I'm older than America. That doesn't seem right.

[Bennett McNichol]

But I mean, it is. Like when you talked about that, you know, I was reminded after the election with just the fact that the Democrats haven't won the white vote since 1964. And what happened after 1964? The civil rights act. So. Wow, that really underscores it.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, it really does. Boy, that's slightly sobering thought. I know. Slightly sobering, slightly damning. You're just like, oh, yeah, all right.

[Bennett McNichol]

Well, now they got correlation and causation might check out.

[Jon Stewart]

I do think in the next election, I would not be surprised if the Democrats ran Bennett McNichol. I do believe they're going to pull him out of that barrel and put him on the ticket.

[Bennett McNichol]

Someone from the Greenwich Country Day School, most likely.

[Jon Stewart]

Right. What I love about that story too is like, where they were going. It was before he went to Andover. He was at the Greenwich Country Day School. And then he went to Andover where he was the most glamorous boy boy at Andover. And you're like, I think I remember this as a Studs Terkel novel. Phenomenal, but happy to be back. It is going to be an interesting ride. I am glad that he in some ways tempered my melancholy and, and pessimism and reminded me like, all right, all right, all right. We don't know what's going to happen. We've been here before. Now it's, it's time to move forward. How are our viewers? Are they listener? Are they listeners, Viewers and podcasts. I don't even know we have both. What do they got for us? Are they, Are they. Hopefully they've had a nice break as well.

[Bennett McNichol]

Yeah, they gave us some really thoughtful feedback over the break.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. Let me hear.

[Bennett McNichol]

John, I grew up watching you and enjoy your program all the time. I wish you knew how crazy you have become. Not as bad as Colbert, but nonetheless very bad.

[Jon Stewart]

Very bad. You know what I love about all those? It's always like, I've been a fan of yours my whole life. I love everything you do, but you've really made a turn and I'm like, you haven't watched a minute of me. I've got more because I'm the same dumb asshole I have been since the start, unfortunately. Yeah. What's the other? Is it all along that sort.

[Bennett McNichol]

It's a theme.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. The theme is always like, you were great until now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Bennett McNichol]

You're smiling. You love this.

[Jon Stewart]

I mean, I'm used to it, so it tickles me.

[Bennett McNichol]

Jon Stewart is an arrogant, self righteous asshole.

[Jon Stewart]

But always, by the way, again, there's been no growth. It's just, it's not new. All right, go ahead.

[Bennett McNichol]

You for helping push Biden out.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, wow. Okay. I, you know, I'm still somewhat baffled by that idea that actually Biden, like, even those closest to him now sheepishly acknowledge what they should have acknowledged a year and a half ago. And God bless them if they think, oh, in this kind of revisionist mindset that actually, oh, actually his vigor and acuity are as good as they've always been and he would have trounced. I just think that's sadly divorced from the reality. And I take no pleasure in that. I take no pleasure in saying it. He felt to me, I'll put this in comedic terms, when a comedian comes on and the audience is worried about that comedian as they perform, that's the death of their performance. That's how I felt about, unfortunately, the President and I don't know how you guys felt.

[Bennett McNichol]

Oh, yeah, it felt like a high wire act that you were just waiting to see if he fell. Literally, by the way. Yeah. That. Watching that debate.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, right. I mean, in terms of it, we. It's tough. I mean, the debate was the kind of the apex of it, but I think prior to that, I mean, there was. And I think also you have to remember the bully pulpit requires vigorous pushback, especially in this modern media environment. And if you have to be. If your emotional and intellectual reserves have to be managed and in some ways meted out, you know, in just a certain amount of, you know, rationing. I'm sorry, that's. You won't be able to do it. And Trump's, unfortunately, his resources for that were endless. But I completely. The arrogant asshole part. Yeah.

[Bennett McNichol]

All of that feedback was from Jason Furman. Just so you know.

[Jon Stewart]

Damn economists. Why? Why?

[Bennett McNichol]

That's it. Everybody else loves you.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Well, that's great. That's the kind of shit, you know, look, it's important for us to hear it all out and kind of think about, because there is, you know, it's funny, in all the kind of waterfall of criticism and attacks that come generally, there will be something somewhat constructive in some of it. And even though it's kind of a drag to sift through all of it, you know, it is in some ways you are panning for gold in a, you know, river. A torrent of, you know, kind of shitty criticism. But, but, but sadly, you'll probably find a nugget or two where you're like, yeah, I should do. I should get better at that.

[Bennett McNichol]

Yeah. I mean, it's been helpful to read the comments, honestly, because we've gotten some great feedback or suggestions on like, topics or people. We should talk to you.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. And Brittany, we should have. Let's think about some of those suggestions for topics and people because, look, it's going to be hard to turn our attention off the fire hose for these first, you know, but there is a whole world out there. And speaking of which, by the way, you know, we talked about California earlier. I just want to quickly, again, for anybody out there who is considering the California Fire foundation is. Is phenomenal. So it's CA. Firefoundation.org if anybody is interested. And I'm certainly. It's not a secret of all those organizations. So that's just. That happens to be one. But we all, obviously not to get colloquial, but we all have very good friends and family out there that are really going through it. So. So what's. People want to get in touch with us. What Is it Brittany?

[Bennett McNichol]

Twitter. We weekly show pod. Instagram threads, TikTok. Blue Sky. We are weekly show podcast taking off.

[Jon Stewart]

On blue sky, man.

[Bennett McNichol]

Yeah, we actually really are. And you can like and subscribe our YouTube channel. The weekly show with Jon Stewart.

[Jon Stewart]

Wonderful. And as always, thank you again. Lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mamedovic, video editor and engineer Rob Votolo with his baby, who is now. How old is the baby now, Rob? 11. Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate producer Gillian Spear, executive producer Chris Machin and executive producer Katie Gray, who I must say, also just had a beautiful baby. Yay. Little Nora. So sweet. And we, we wish Katie and her husband Chris just the absolute best. They're just the. The sweetest, most wonderful people. So, so excited for them as they. As they go along on this journey. And. And that's that, man. We will. We will see you guys next week. Thanks again. Bye. The weekly show with Jon Stewart is a Comedy central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions. From the director of the Greatest Showman comes the most original musical ever. I want to prove I can make it proof. To who? Everyone.

[John Meacham]

So the story starts. Better Man.

[Jon Stewart]

Rated R. Now playing.

[John Meacham]

Now streaming on Paramount.

[Jon Stewart]

Plus, what's your job? When people go missing, I get hired to help find them. Catch up now on Tracker.

[John Meacham]

I'm here to help the CBS original.

[Jon Stewart]

Series that critics are calling a breakout hit. Nothing good comes without risks. I would drink to that.

[John Meacham]

Justin Hartley stars.

[Jon Stewart]

Hold on.

[John Meacham]

Did you say Arrow Run?

[Jon Stewart]

That's a new one. Coulter in the CBS original Tracker. Catch up on the latest episodes now on Paramount plus.

[John Meacham]

Paramount podcasts.