Politics for ME (and You) with Graham Platner

Summary

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

Episode Title: Politics for ME (and You) with Graham Platner
Release Date: April 29, 2026
Podcast Host: Jon Stewart
Guest: Graham Platner (Democratic U.S. Senate candidate, Maine; former Marine, oyster farmer, community organizer)

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Episode Overview

This episode features an extended, candid conversation between Jon Stewart and Graham Platner, an insurgent Democrat, Marine veteran, oyster farmer, and first-time candidate running for U.S. Senate in Maine. The focus is on Platner’s unconventional journey into politics, his philosophy of power, the failures of the Democratic Party, the importance of lived experience and organizing, and what it means to create systemic change rather than tinkering at the margins.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Graham Platner: The Accidental Candidate

• [00:53 – 04:11]
  • Jon Stewart frames Platner as a hopeful sign that “ordinary” Americans can step up to rebuild the political system in response to the ills of recent years.
  • Platner’s quick-witted, understated humor comes through as he describes life as “mellow” despite now running a high-profile campaign.

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2. Platner’s Origin Story: Disillusionment to Engagement

• [04:11 – 09:02]
  • Platner recounts his military deployments, subsequent disillusionment with U.S. politics after working on Capitol Hill (“the wizard is, in fact, a very small man” – [04:51]), and desire to “check out.”
  • Transitioned to oyster farming, local governance, and community organizing in rural Maine. Rediscovered faith in “the average American as a truly wonderful human being.”
  • Organic community involvement led labor activists to recruit him for the Senate race after seeing his activism (notably, a video opposing Norwegian salmon farming on local waters).

Quote:
"I became quite convinced that the average American is a truly wonderful human being. Most people are normal. The problem is we have a political system that elevates a lot of abnormal people." – Graham Platner [05:53]

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3. The Unorthodox Campaign: Authenticity and Principle

• [09:07 – 18:13]
  • Recruitment felt surreal; Platner and his wife initially told the union reps to “fuck off” but rethought when presented with real infrastructure to launch a campaign.
  • Decided to put principles into action at scale: “Do we actually believe what we think we believe?”
  • Platner attributes campaign momentum to a “deep critique of the American political system,” a willingness to name real systemic failures, and direct, non-focus-grouped communication.
  • Early media backlash due to his forthrightness and salty language (“The amount of news articles that existed, which were, ‘this man swears too much’”—[16:37]).
  • Platner links authenticity to his working class and military background, “the only language outboard engines understand” (swearing at machines/fish).

Quote:
"I think it's honestly, I think it's two things: The first is that I actually have politics… I developed a deep critique of the American, not just the political system, but… the party that I've always been a part of." – Graham Platner [13:31]

Memorable Moment:
Jon: “This might be the longest conversation I’ve had without a platitude with a politician.” [19:08]

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4. The Theory of Power and Democratic Party Failures

• [20:11 – 38:21]
  • Platner and Stewart critique the Democratic Party for lacking a clear vision, refusing to articulate “what it is trying to do,” and for being afraid to wield power or pursue structural change.
  • Platner identifies with New Deal Democrats (“If I’m any kind of Democrat, I am a New Deal Democrat” – [22:12]) and stresses the need for bold, systemic programs akin to the original New Deal.
  • Stewart and Platner analyze historical moments when transformative policy was possible, crediting broad-based movements and “theory of power” (Stewart: “Democratized our politics, but we never democratized our economy” – [30:11])
  • Platner draws from FDR’s Economic Bill of Rights (housing, jobs, healthcare as rights) and laments its abandonment after FDR’s death [31:45–33:43].

Quote:
“When you have that kind of experience, you’re living in the material realities of policy, not the words.” – Graham Platner [41:17]

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5. Lived Experience and Political Translation

• [41:17 – 44:43]
  • Stewart observes Platner’s ability to translate local governance experience (“planning board in Sullivan, Maine”) into practical policy understanding.
  • Platner discusses the importance of crafting, implementing, and quickly seeing the real-world effects of local policies – and the importance of bureaucratic flexibility: “Sometimes you’ll write the words on the page, implement it, and then it does something different… then you need to be willing [to adjust].” [43:27]

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6. Personal Growth: Avoiding the Far Right & Building Real Community

• [46:58 – 54:45]
  • Stewart asks why Platner—“fertile soil” for the anger and alienation exploited by the alt-right—wasn’t captured by it. Platner credits early teachers, supportive parents, and exposure to diversity in college for providing a lens of systemic, not scapegoating, critique.
  • Credits community engagement, not rage or masculinity, for healing alienation: “The thing that actually made me happy was real community… working with people on projects to improve all our lives.” [53:18]
  • Platner reflects on the healing power of returning to his coastal hometown, physical work on the ocean, and close community ties.

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7. Organizing, Movement Building & The Establishment

• [59:09 – 64:13]
  • Stewart and Platner discuss the limited curiosity from the Democratic establishment, despite Platner’s large polling lead (“At least just reach out and be like, ‘Hey, what are you actually…’ We’ve never, they’ve never spoken, ever.” – [61:42]).
  • Platner calls for infrastructure to support “normals” running for office: small-dollar fundraising, communication tools, and skills provided by organized labor were key to his launch.
  • Systemic change, Platner argues, requires both capturing political power and building robust outside organizing movements (“above all else, this is an organizing project”—[64:13]).

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8. Policy Specifics & Political Power

• [68:57 – 73:34]
  • Stewart and Platner highlight the need for parallel tracks: building grassroots infrastructure and providing tangible, detailed policy outlines (Medicare for All, the PRO Act, etc.).
  • Emphasize the urgency given rising corporate and tech power (“…if they win, that is a bleak future indeed”—[70:19]) and critique U.S. exceptionalism in failing to provide basic guarantees of security.
  • Platner: “The answer to bad government isn’t no government. It’s good government.” [73:32]
  • Stewart: “Good government is possible. I swear to you, I will die on that hill.” [73:34]

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9. Reflections and Takeaways

• [76:45 – 78:51]
  • Post-interview panel (with Stewart, producers, and co-hosts) discuss how Platner’s campaign is built on “lived experience and philosophical principle” rather than opportunism.
  • The conversation is described as “one of the most refreshing” in podcast history.
  • Panelists are struck by Platner’s self-awareness, humility, and the normalcy of his journey making him a “Rosetta Stone” for translating regular peoples’ experiences into policy.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Political Disillusionment:
  “I realized that the wizard is, in fact, a very small man.” – Graham Platner [04:51]

• On Candidacy:
  “They literally came to my house and said, ‘We think you should run for United States Senate.’ And my wife and I quite honestly told them to fuck off.” – Graham Platner [09:00]

• On The Democratic Party:
  “Primarily around that theory of power thing… The Democratic Party’s never been able to articulate what it’s trying to do.” – Graham Platner [14:13]

• On Authenticity:
  “The reason that it doesn’t seem focus group[ed]… is because it isn’t. Like, I write my own speeches. I give my own opinions. I’m a former combat Marine and I work on the ocean—what do you expect?” – Graham Platner [16:37]

• On Policy and Power:
  “It’s almost as though political power goes a little bit further than just the words on the page.” – Graham Platner [23:27]
  “We need to democratize our economy.” – Graham Platner [30:11]

• On Corporate Power:
  “Large, consolidated capital… the only really effective way of going after it is with governmental power. And when we don’t do it, that’s when corporate power, the power of capital captures government.” – Graham Platner [73:48]

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Memorable Moments

• Jon and Graham joke about how swearing is “the only language outboard engines understand” [17:23].
• Stewart observes the “Disneyesque” nature of Platner’s candidacy—a “Mr. Smith goes to Washington” tale [12:14].
• Stewart’s takedown of party rhetoric: “I think they’re eating in their cars” [19:00].

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:11] – Platner’s post-military disillusionment
• [09:00] – “Told them to fuck off” (initial reaction to being recruited)
• [13:31] – Breakdown of Platner’s independent politics
• [23:14] – FDR’s court-packing and lessons on power
• [31:45] – FDR’s Economic Bill of Rights
• [41:17] – Lived experience and policy outcomes
• [46:58] – Discussion of alt-right recruitment & Platner’s path away from it
• [61:42] – Democratic establishment’s lack of curiosity about Platner’s campaign
• [68:57] – Need for policy specificity and movement infrastructure

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Episode Tone & Style

Candid, witty, and deeply reflective—Platner offers a grounded, unvarnished look at politics shaped by his rural, working-class, and military experiences, peppered with dark humor and sharp systemic analysis. Stewart plays the wry, skeptical host, but is clearly energized by Platner’s authenticity and intellect.

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Summary

This conversation is an incisive examination of what it means to bring lived experience and organizing power into politics, the limitations of elite-driven party strategies, and why systemic solutions—anchored in historical precedent and grassroots wisdom—are both possible and necessary in today’s America. Platner emerges as an unlikely but compelling voice for a renewed, principle-driven left—one deeply distrustful of both empty rhetoric and establishment caution but profoundly hopeful about the power of real people to change the game.

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For those seeking insight into the disconnect between elite politics and ground-level organizing, how lived experience can inform policy, and why “regular” people might be key to rebuilding American democracy—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Hey everybody, it's Jon Stewart. Welcome to the Weekly show podcast. We have a fine, fine program for you. We're going to pivot a little bit from the issues of the day to the candidate of the day. But boy, it's what is today Tuesday. Tomorrow is is Wednesday, April 29th. Who knows what's what's going to happen? Apparently the Iranians are begging Donald Trump to be able to unconditionally surrender. And oh, because they're collapsing. They're apparently completely collapsing except for their ability to choke off the straight of hormones. Apparently everything is falling apart but their ability to keep all boats other than Russian luxury yachts out of the straight of horo. It's I, I don't know about you, I, I am sure you're all exhausted by all this. To have the White House correspondent center end in gunfire and somehow that get flipped around and be an assault on apparently Jimmy Kimmel's jokes. That's the land of absurdity we find ourselves in in today's society. But you know what? There is, there is hope and the hope is in the people that rise out of you know, I've always believed this when they say make America great again. Donald Trump will make America great again, just not in the way that he intended because the reaction to his fragility and impulsiveness and incompetence will spur people that you would not expect to rise above the madness and, and, and help to begin to rebuild the very thing that we need in this country. And, and our guest today may be one of those individuals and I'm very excited to actually talk to him. He is kind of came out of nowhere, one of those ordinary people who has suddenly stood up and raised their hand and said, hey, maybe, maybe I could help run this thing. He is From Maine, a simple man, a Mainer, a Marine, an oyster farmer, and now a U.S. senate candidate for the great state of Maine. Let's talk to Graham Platner. Well, folks, we are excited today to be talking about a young, rising voice in the Democratic Party from the great state of Maine, a manor. Mainer. Mainish.

[B]

Manor.

[A]

Mainer.

[B]

Manor. Yeah. Manor is the correct term.

[A]

Manor is a correct term. Former marine oyster farmer, U.S. senate candidate from the great state of Maine, Grant Platner. What's happening, man?

[B]

Oh, you know, not much.

[A]

Not much.

[B]

Everything's real mellow. Having a real mellow, mellow existence. My. My life is definitely on the exact path that I thought it would be. Yeah, everything's chill.

[A]

Very interesting. Graham. Can I just. Even getting started on this. What. What drove you this idea to. To run for, for, for Senate in Maine, to join that assisted living facility that is the Senate down in Washington? What. What possessed you to even consider something like that?

[B]

Well, I mean. And do you mind if I give you, like, the two minute spiel on this? Because I think it's rather important.

[A]

Give me the spiel, baby.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's what we're here for. I'd. I'd love to hear it.

[B]

So I moved back to Maine in 2016. I. After my. After I. I deployed a bunch in my 20s, early 30s in the Marine Corps and the AR and when I got back from that, was very disillusioned, was very, frankly, bitter. Was. Was really. And then was also struggling with all the standard stuff that one goes through after, you know, multiple heavy combat deployments. And I. And I went to College in D.C. i went to George Washington. I didn't graduate, but. But kind of went to school, was a bartender, actually bartended on Capitol Hill, which gave me a look behind the curtain. And I realized that the wizard is, in fact, a very small man and something seemingly dumb and seeming, well, that. So honestly, there was. There was part of my disillusionment was actually living in D.C. and kind of meeting people in the political space and realizing that, like, this is it.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Like, I went through all of that horror. I saw, like, my friends got killed. I saw awful stuff because of you people. You like, you know, like, there was this kind of, like, deep, like, frustration. But. So in 2016, I moved back to Maine. And after I moved back to Maine, things changed significantly. I started getting help from the va I moved back to my hometown. I got into oyster farming, and I wanted to check out. I just wanted to be left alone. I thought the whole Thing was broken. I didn't want to have any part of it. I just wanted to sink all my time and energy into the place that I'm from. Started making a living on the sea, got into diving, got into oyster farming, became the harbor master. Got really involved in my local community. And honestly, in that time frame, all my disillusionment disappeared. Not with the bigger system, but, like, I went. I went from blaming, like, America and Americans to. Because I used to have this feeling, like, why did you make me go do this? Like, why did you guys make us go do this thing in Iraq and Afghanistan? That, like, I, for the life of me, cannot figure out what the purpose was. And when I got back here and started really, really settling in, I realized I be. I became quite convinced that the average American is a truly wonderful human being. Most people are. Most people are normal. The problem is we have a political system that elevates a lot of abnormal people. And. Yes.

[A]

So you get cable news.

[B]

You've watched. Yeah, and I've always been. You know, I've always been a very politically active and interested person, but not in, like, electoral politics. So I got. I really sank my time into my. Into local governance. I became chair of the planning board. And then I got really into the community organizing around social justice and economic justice issues. And in. In all doing all of that, I also came to the realization that when the system itself is quite broken, or not even broken, when the system itself is built to be a raid against the average person. You know, when you're working at the ground level, you're pretty much just putting band aids on things and. But I did think that that was exactly where my life was going to stay. I mean, I. I really. I moved back here to Sullivan, Maine, where I currently live. I live on the road I grew up on.

[A]

Do you really? You, You. You're on the road you grew up on?

[B]

Yeah, I live, like. I live a couple houses down from the house I grew up in.

[A]

Oh, fantastic.

[B]

Which is nice, you know? Yeah, it's very. And like. And I come from. I mean, my town has a thousand people in it, and it's where I grew up. So, like, I. I know everybody. Everybody's known me since I was a kid. It's a very nice. I don't know, it's a nice feeling. Last summer, end of July, some people came to my house. They had been in Maine for a few months working with the afl, CIO and a bunch of labor unions looking for someone to run for U.S. senate against Susan Collins and they were looking specifically for like a kind of a workingclass person on kind of working class economic policies. And they had found me because I did a video a few years ago fighting against the Norwegian salmon farm that was trying to come into our bay. A bunch of us mobilized against it, and I did a video with the group.

[A]

I don't know that there's anything I've ever heard that's more Maine than this. Bunch of guys come to my house because they saw your Norwegian salmon video.

[B]

Yep. And then they looked me up and they saw I donated to Bernie Sanders. And, and they were like, oh, well, maybe this, like, they were like, we should go check it out. So they literally came to my house and said, we think you should run for United States Senate. And my wife and I quite honestly told them to fuck off. Because that was the weirdest, weirdest, most random.

[A]

The absolute proper response. Yeah. That you should have given.

[B]

I mean, it was also like, it was in the morning, we're getting. I'm ready to get. I'm getting ready to go out on the boat. My. We're getting like, we're going to work. And we're like, what the hell? But they came back the next week with a more kind of fleshed out idea. They're like, listen, this isn't like, they're like, this isn't like a joke. They're like, we, we've got someone who can help you do small dollar fundraising. We've got someone who could help get your name in the papers, and we've got someone who's. Who can shoot a launch video, which was the launch video that got made. And at that point, because my wife and we have no money. And so I'm like, I'm like, I know how this set. I know, I know how these campaigns work. I like, where. How is this going to, is this going to happen? And essentially they were like, look, we're not like, we've got some people who can help early on and that. And I'm like, well, so there was this moment where for my wife and I, we spent a lot of time being frustrated with the larger system. We spent a lot of time thinking that. And ironically, I've also had a theory for years that the United States Senate, because it was set up to be a specific bulwark against working class people to protect elites, that that actually makes it a unique place of power where if we can get a few normal people into the U.S. senate. And I so, like, but. And I felt that way for years, never expecting that, like, I was going to be right.

[A]

You'd be one of the normals.

[B]

No, never once. But then this opportunity showed up. And so, I mean, essentially my wife and I had to ask ourselves, do we actually believe what we think we believe? Because. Because if, if we, if we do. If we do, then an opportunity like this to do something of this scale and of this visibility and, and to frankly organize like, using this as. I mean, because my wife and I have been very engaged in a lot of local community organizing and we realized, like, this is a, this is an ability to do a statewide organizing project on a scale that like, we never could have dreamed of with resources and visibility that we never could have dreamed of. And so we said yes.

[A]

So. So the off became actually, this might be an opportunity to put our principles that we've kind of been living by.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For all these years into practice.

[B]

Yeah. But we didn't expect it to, to do what it did.

[A]

We didn't think it would work. We didn't have any idea that this would actually work.

[B]

I mean, I mean, early on there was this element of like, it was almost like things are so bad now and people are so frustrated, including us. We're like, we might actually pull this off. I mean, there was this like. But we did. But we certainly didn't expect it to explode the way that it did. I mean, I thought we, we really thought this was gonna be like a. Months long, slowly building, kind of diligently going out and getting my name. I mean, because I'm literally a random. I mean, I'm a random oyster farmer from Sullivan, Maine. It's insane.

[A]

I have to tell you that the entire setup is somewhat Disney esque.

[B]

Oh, it's nuts.

[A]

Or just sort of this. I, you know. Well, first of all, there's always that. There's kind of always the fable of a Mr. Smith goes to Washington. A kind of, you know, an honest man who has real ideals facing off against a corrupt system that is fueled by money and toxicity and all these different. So there is an archetype for this. But I'm curious, in, in, in your mind, why did the sort of Mr. Smith goes to Washington thing catch such fire? What. What do you think you tapped into? What frustrations were it that you were able to articulate so well early on that people just caught on to? If I may, like, you weren't mimicking any other politician to my. I mean, there's, there's hints of Sanders in there, but like, you were definitely a, A bit iconoclastic when it came to what you were putting out there. And it didn't seem focus grouped and considered or any of the other artifices that occur with, with a lot of politicians. So what, what kind of took off.

[B]

I think it's honestly, I think it's two things. The first is that I actually have politics. Like, like I, like I have a. Over the years, throughout my life, through my experiences overseas, coming home, my disillusionment, I went looking for answers. And in, in the looking for answers, I read a lot of books and I developed frankly a theory of power. I developed a deep critique of the American, not just the political system, but like the party that, the party that I've always been a part of. I mean I've been a Democrat. I mean I've always been a registered Democrat. I've also my entire life been very frustrated with the party that, that I, that I'm in.

[A]

You, you and me both, sister.

[B]

Primarily around that theory of power thing. I mean I, I honestly have always been like, we can never articulate. The Democratic Party's never been able to articulate what it's trying to do. Like what's the end goal? Never really articulates a clear set of policies that, to get us there and then never, never seems to want to wield power to make those policies a reality.

[A]

And you're, you're nailing it. So Graham, are you suggesting, sir, that your career is built on principle?

[B]

What a wild concept in this modern era.

[A]

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[B]

So I think that the fact that, like, I like, the reason that it doesn't seem focus group and the reason that my messaging is is because it isn't. Like, I don't. Like, I write my own speeches. Like, I give my own opinions when people ask me them. Like, I don't. Like, I've got, like, communications people. We talk about ways to, like, clean it up and make it easier. Like, well, I don't. I mean. I mean, oh, my God. The first two months of the campaign, like, John, literally, the amount of news articles that existed, which were, this man swears too much. And I was like, dude, I'm like, I'm a former combat Marine and I work on the ocean. What do you expect, right?

[A]

It's the only language the fish understand.

[B]

It is. You got it.

[A]

You got to talk to.

[B]

Well, more importantly, got to be rough. It's the only language outboard engines understand. If you don't swear at outboard engines, they won't work for you. It's a. It's a scientific fact.

[A]

Has to be.

[B]

But so there. So there's that part. There's the fact that, like, I honestly think people understand that I'm not full of shit. Like. Like. Like. Because I actually do believe these things.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I remember it was early on, I went, like, on cnn, and I, you know, I went on. They asked me questions, and I just gave, like, yes or no answers. And afterwards, all these people called me and they were like, oh, my God, it was so real. It was so, like. Like, the. Like, like, you came across as so authentic. And I'm like, what the. How broken are we?

[A]

Oh, oh, baby. Oh, I hear.

[B]

I know. I know.

[A]

You're like. You're literally like a mermaid that came out of the sea. And people are like, what is happening?

[B]

So there's that. The other part, though, is that I'm just saying the things out loud that I've heard from my neighbors and my friends and my community members for years. I mean, it's something I. You know, I've gone all over Maine for the past nine months now. We've talked to, like, tens of thousands of Mainers. I hold multiple public events a week. It's all open to the public. We don't screen questions. We don't screen people like anybody can come. And so I've been talking to everybody. Republicans, independents, Democrats, the whole nine people that just don't care about politics, the whole nine yards. And if you ask any Mainer, do you think you live in a political and economic system that has your best interests at heart? Nobody says yes, right? Nobody.

[A]

And by the way, I mean, you transfer that to any state American, I think, I mean, I think that's, that's absolutely the undercurrent. I mean, Graham, I have to tell you, you know, look, I talk to people in politics all the time and I've done it for many years. This might be the longest conversation I've had without a platitude with a politician. I, I like it sounds ridiculous, but I cannot tell you how canned, how often you hear. The Democrats just have to get back to those issues of affordability. We've got to get back to what people talk about around the kitchen table. And I'm like, I don't think people actually talk around the kitchen. I think they're eating in their cars. Like, that's right. But, but that's what I'm saying. I, I think there is a, a refreshing openness and honesty to approaching something this way. And I cannot wait to see how long it takes for you to be consumed by that system.

[B]

Honestly, like that is.

[A]

Do you worry about that?

[B]

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. And I don't, like, I don't worry about, look, I'll just say, like, I love Bernie Sanders and, and I've developed a very nice relationship with Senator Sanders. And it is very clear to me that Senator Sanders has maintained his integrity because he believes. And, and like, I will spike and I believe in the same thing Bernie believes. Like, like, I think, I think we have a very, very similar sort of foundational politics, which is like, we care about, we care about people. Like, it's, it's a politics of humanity and it's a real polity. It's not a politics of, like, trying to, like, get into power for your sake. It's because it's only in, it's only in these, like, I just have a theory of power, these political institutions that we, that exist around us. If we want to change things, we're going to have to, like, use them in some way. I would love to, if we could just do something else. But I like, right now it doesn't seem like that's possible. Now, I do think that because I want to. I'm not really a reform candidate. I don't, I Very much like Bernie, believe in the need to have a political revolution in this country.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like I, we need to restructure things. We need systemic changes. Like, it's not a.

[A]

But it's not nihilistic. I don't, I don't know what you talk about as, as nihilistic. I think. And it's something that I think the Democratic Party has really struggled with, which is, I think they're still relying on the idea that the New Deal was a good idea and that was in the 30s and that was the Democrats. And so let's just figure out ways to continue picking around that. Let's do a tax subsidy here. Let's do. But they don't think broadly and systemically in the way that I think is necessary. And maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[B]

Well, like, if I'm any kind of Democrat, I am a New Deal Democrat.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But like the New Deal wasn't picking around the edges exactly. Like Social Security wasn't a tax credit, it wasn't a block grant, it wasn't a marginal amendment to an existing policy. Francis Perkins and FDR and a bunch of labor unions invented Social Security out of whole clothes. And the, the ccc, the wpa, the tva, the Rural Electrification Administration, all of these things.

[A]

And listen, some of it worked and some of it didn't, but there was a theory behind what they were accomplishing.

[B]

And, and there was also the political will, which, I mean, like, and, and, and, and FDR had a theory of power. I mean, for instance, mid-1930s Supreme Court is about to say that all the New Deal programs are unconstitutional. Fdr, yes. Against the wishes of his own party.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Says that he's going to pack the court suddenly, very quickly, all those unconstitutional New Deal programs became constitutional overnight.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Nobody changed the language. Nobody. Like, like fd, like, it's almost, it's almost as though political power goes a little bit further than just the words on the page. It's almost as though that political power is in fact its own unique thing that needs to be at times wielded creatively and, you know, like, and if that hadn't happened, then this country doesn't get dragged out of the Depression. Right. If that hadn't happened, we, we wouldn't have set the stage to win the war.

[A]

And do you see parallels with this moment? You know, one of the things that I think about sometimes, you know, to be fair to the system, Roosevelt did have large margins.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

At that time. Because Hoover would, you know, the Republicans had up at that point so grandly that, that there were margins there that could be worked within. But even when Democrats have margins, I can recall when they've had the Senate and the House and they had a super majority for a little while, they still did that thing that you're talking about, which is don't let. You know, let's not go to. Let's. Let's not push this too far. Let's make sure that this program for healthcare isn't healthcare for everybody because that's going to scare people. Let's just give a subsidy to insurance companies so that they will just bring more people into this broken system that we have.

[B]

That's. I mean, that's it. That. I mean. And which is exactly what has happened. And it didn't fix anything because the problem isn't about. The problem isn't marginal. The problem is systemic and. Systemic. I mean, and you know, this is a. Like, the reason we know it's systemic, by the way, is because it's happening everywhere. It's not like one state has a problem with housing. It's not like one state has a problem with healthcare. It's not like one state has a problem with affordability. It's the entire country. And, and so, which is very clear to me that this is a obvious systemic problem. But like, okay, I'm going to. Because we. Roosevelt a little bit. I'm going to do one more.

[A]

Roosevelt. We had to.

[B]

Roosevelt in 1928. Roosevelt writes that the problem with the Democratic Party today is it has no constructive policy and vision of the future. And that if you ask the average American what the Democratic Party believed in, nobody would be able to tell you. And that the entire theory is that we're going to wait for the Republicans to screw it up so much that we'll just magically get power again. He said that in 1928.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And.

[A]

And at that time was Chuck Schumer the leader of the Senate? I'm just curious.

[B]

I mean, possibly.

[A]

Yeah, same shit, man.

[B]

But here's the thing though. And this is what, this is why I'm not. This is why I'm not remotely hopeless. Roosevelt writes that in 28, by 1933, he is president and the nation is fully engaged in the project of fixing itself out of the new. The Depression.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Like the first hundred days of his administration. Right. Like the whole. There's the whole joke about the Alphabet agencies because they just invent like 10 new agencies just into existence and created

[A]

markets where they didn't exist before.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And created safeguards so that bank runs didn't exist and created financing for housing. Which didn't exist.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You know, all of those things did it in a racist way, but still did it.

[B]

Well, like, but the thing is, like the, the, those New Deal programs and in the society that they built really in the 50s and 60s, which had a myriad of faults, I mean, like, faults of, I mean, of racism, faults of leaving out immense amounts of the nation for. However, what we have to understand is we can look to that and say, like, we can do that in a not bad way.

[A]

That's right. It's a blueprint.

[B]

In fact, in fact, had we done it then in a more inclusive manner, we probably would have had a better society. So, but my, the, for me, the big, the big lesson here is that one, things can change pretty quickly. Now. Let's, I mean, it's important to remember 1929, right in the run up to the total collapse, we had full deregulation of speculative financial markets. We had, we had rampant wealth hoarding where money, money was no longer in the real world. It was just being hoarded in vast numbers. We had a small amount of Americans owning pretty much all of the things and having all of the wealth.

[A]

You know, I mean, none of this resonates with the modern times at all, Graham.

[B]

But it's also why I think, and this is what's really important to me in this moment. We need, as the, whether we call it the Democratic Party, whether we call it like a, a, a, a, I don't know, like a more economically populist look at our politics. Either way, we need to be ready. We need to be there with the answers and with policies already written because I do think it's going to move fast. The Trump administration has no, broken so much. The Trump administration has destroyed so much of the norm, so much of the kind of the general way of doing

[A]

business and in many ways the spirit, the emotional spirit, I think, of Americans who are frayed at the edges by just the, the, the exhaustion, the constant assault on all of our senses when

[B]

and purposefully when we've had a number of moments of crisis for our democracy throughout our country's history. Right? 1770s, 1860s, 1930s, 1960s. In every one of these moments, the Americans that rose to the occasion to protect the project, they understood that they could not just go back to what they had, that to that to protect the rights of our children, we need to extend them new rights that to protect freedom, we need to come up with new Definitions of freedom, that, that it was in fact the status quo, the system that we had. That's what brought us to the moment of crisis. And so it isn't going to be

[A]

enough or the exploitation of those moments.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know that the system oftentimes, no matter how, as you said, they put forth ideas that are going to elevate people. The system tends towards exploitation always and corruption and that, that tends to lead to those moments, as you say, of collapse and reinvention.

[B]

It will not. And I honestly think it's because while we, we democratized our politics, but we never democratized, democratized our economy and, and within our political system bars.

[A]

Yes, within our.

[B]

Like, wealth equates political power in this system, that we have no question. So without a democratized economic system, you are always going to eventually find yourself with these consolidated moments of wealth which will inherently create consolidated moments of political power, which we keep doing this.

[A]

I mean, you're seeing it right now play out in, in the tech world and, and we can get into this. You know, you talked earlier, a little off camera, about the $2 million that they've flooded into Maine for Susan Collins. And it came from people like Carp at, at, at paler. But to your point and to the point of the 1920s, there's this one industry where trillions and trillions of dollars are funneling into that industry through deregulation and through wealth, other things. And then they're turning some of that money into political power. And it's this cycle where they're just funneling the money that they've gotten through deregulation and the fact that capital isn't taxed in the same way that labor is. And now they're putting that back into the system to consolidate and keep that power at the top.

[B]

I'm. Okay, I, I shouldn't. No, I'm going to, I'm going to FDR. I'm going to FDR one last time.

[A]

Bring it. FDR, me.

[B]

So in, in 44, FDR puts out the Economic Bill of Rights, which is this. Which actually, amusingly enough, it came out of the first real nationwide polling that was ever done.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

In 42 and 43, the administration did a massive polling effort across the country to ask working Americans, what are the things that you need? Now, unsurprisingly, it was, we want security in our housing. We want jobs that matter, that pay us a working, a living wage. We want the ability to collectively bargain and join unions. We want access to health care. We want access to education. 1944, FDR puts out the economic bill of Rights, which essentially says we, we as a nation, in order to democratize our economy, we need to provide as rights things like housing, health care, education, collective bargaining, all of it. When he kind of lays it out, he says, and I'm going to paraphrase here, but he essentially says, look, if we do not systemically change and not not allow for this consolidation of wealth, we are going to wind up eventually right back where we were in the late 1920s. And even though that this nation defeated fascism on the battlefields abroad, that is going, that is going to engender and create fascism here at home. And then he dies.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He dies in 45.

[A]

What an, what an exit letter though.

[B]

And with his death dies the political will to bring that economic bill of rights into a reality. And I look, I honestly like had we, had we implemented that in the late 1940s, we live in a different society today.

[A]

I know a little secret about a lot of the folks that listen to this podcast. You like animals. And in particular the data says cats. Many of your cat people, single, married, I'm not gonna stereotype you, I'm not gonna put you in a box. I'm just gonna say many of you like cats and cats are delightful. But you know, the thing about cats is they gotta eat too. And Smalls makes the cat food. And by the way, it's human grade food for cat. It's not. You know, there's always that joke like, ah, that looks like cat food. This isn't, this is cat food. But it's the good cat food. You know, most cat food brands, it's all cheap fillers and, and whatever they found on the floor of the factory that's not good for your cat. Your cat is not going to be healthy. But Smalls protein packed recipes with preservative free, 100% human grade ingredients that you would find in your fridge. And by the way, it's not just me saying this. Forbes, which is I believe still a magazine, ranked Smalls the best overall cat food and they tasted all of them. Buzzfeed noted that cats go completely ballistic for it. And then there was like a listicle of which cast members of the musical cats would eat which flavors of Smalls cat food. But that's a Buzzfeed thing. You don't need to bother yourself with that. So stop serving your little carnivore a bowl of processed shortcuts for a limited time because you are a weekly show listener. Gets 60% off your first order plus free shipping and Free treats for life when you head to smalls.com tws holy. I don't even like saying this. It's such a good deal. One last time. That's 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com TWS. Grant, let me ask you, because this, everything that you're talking about I think brings up to me, so I want to bring it more specific to the Democratic Party and sort of where they have failed to bring that broad based thinking to bear. We'll just go with, you know, we've got to tax the rich. You know, what you hear from Democrats a lot is we got to, we, we got to just tax the rich. But if you don't connect the money that you are getting to the value that the voters are going to be receiving for that money, it is a hollow pledge and nobody gets behind it because you have not earned the credibility that voters need to have that you will be using that money responsibly and for programs that make sense, as you said, not just another tax credit subsidy. The Democrats seem unable to connect money to value in a broad way that resonates with voters.

[B]

And could I tell you why I think that is?

[A]

I would. That exactly why I'm asking.

[B]

It's because I don't think they actually do want to tax the rich. I think, I think there are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who want, who want to use that language in order to try to like garner votes, but they don't really want to go through with it because that would really piss off their donors.

[A]

Oh, that's. I thought you were going to say something else, Graham. Actually, I thought you were going to say because they don't know what to do with it. No, I mean, I don't know actually what to do with the money.

[B]

I, well, look, I think that is also partially true. I, like I'm there. We have a political class right now that exists that has really grown up in the politics of the last 50 years. Right.

[A]

And the politics, corporate money and, and

[B]

that's right, certainly like, and so that system is going to elevate certain kinds of people with frankly certain ideologies or certain kind of, I don't like even just like emotional relationships which make them not want to do something big. Right. I mean, it doesn't like a system like that does not elevate people who dream. It elevates people who are going to be transactional.

[A]

What do they always say, Graham? They say, don't Let perfect be the enemy of good, which I can understand. And you don't want to get paralyzed, but you also, the, the, the counter to that is don't let good be the enemy of what's possible. Amen. And too often that becomes the mantra.

[B]

And that's been my. Look, I'm 41 my entire life.

[A]

Let me tell you something. Your voice is 62. Your voice is my age.

[B]

I know. Well, maybe it was my time in the Marine Corps.

[A]

Coffee and cigarettes, baby.

[B]

Coffee, cigarettes and yelling when I was in the Marine Corps.

[A]

So that'll do it.

[B]

That'll do it.

[A]

The.

[B]

But it's a. I, ironically, I've had this voice even before the coffee and the cigarette spot.

[A]

That's what you were the kid in the Little Rascals who's like, let's put on a show.

[B]

I mean it's, it's froggy. It's a joke, but it's not that much of a joke. But the, the problem is, is people that are elevated within that system, they're not going to want to, to like, think big. And that's actually my. So my whole life I've just heard from establishment politicians that like, the best thing we can ever do is keep electing the same people because they know how the system works. And that experience is somehow like the experience that's going to get us something instead of nothing. The problem is their experience is within the system that can't seem to do anything. And like, and I actually think that that's a bad experience. Like, I don't think that that actually equates to a political vision or even a theory of power for that matter, because it's not about, it's not about getting things done in the service of something. It's just like being able to play the inside baseball for the sake of playing the inside baseball, not in the service of a greater goal. And I think honestly that's one of the biggest problems that we have. And in like, so, in like, meanwhile, like, this is why I think we need a lot more normal people in politics. Because the experience of normal people, like my experience is having to fight in deeply stupid wars and seeing the, see, seeing the, the reality of that. Yes, my. It's also coming home from those stupid wars and like, then not being supported for many years and going through like the problems then it, like trying to start a small business and going through the problems of like, dealing with all of like having the experience of like trying to figure out how to make life work. And in all within a System that often is kind of a raid against you. And like, we need more people with that kind of experience. Because when you have that kind of experience, you're living in the material realities of policy. Not that, not that. The, not the words.

[A]

Right. Write that down. You are living in the material realities of policy. That is dead on. But let me say too though, Graham and I, and I think it's important and in talking to you, it's, something's kind of clicking in my head, which is because we all talk about, you know, normal people don't talk like that. You've got to talk to normal people, you got to get outside and all those things are correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we also need kind of Rosetta Stones, we need some people that can help translate those lived experiences, the material realities of living through the effects of policy into those broader kind of philosophical and policy hierarchies that need to be structured.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like that, if I may, feels like a little bit of the magic I'm seeing from you is that you're able to have lived that experience and then translate it into Washington speak to understand how that experience can translate into the changes in policy. And it's such an important connection.

[B]

One of the weirdest things, I actually think my, my education on this was in my time on planning board.

[A]

That's interesting. Planning board in, in Sullivan. It.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because like on planning board in a small town especially you like craft policy, implement policy and then see the material outcome of that policy sometimes within weeks and it's happening to your neighbors who are going to come tell you if it's up. And so like, there's a, like, for, like, for me that was a really incredible experience because like you really, you begin to like the words on the page actually translate to an, to a material thing and you have to be very careful about and, and also more importantly though, you have to be flexible because sometimes you'll write the words on the page, you implement it, and then it does something different than what you thought and then you need to be willing.

[A]

That's really interesting. Does it make you distrust bureaucracy or does it make you, in that instance, do you, do you begin to understand the frustrations of even well intentioned procedure?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yes. And I don't like, I, I'll be like, I'm not mistrustful of bureaucracy because I, I honestly, bureaucracy in some ways is necessary. It's how we keep systems functioning. The problem is we've resulted in like a bureaucracy in bureaucracies that cannot be flexible.

[A]

At all and are captured by a lot of times the complexity of bureaucracy is put there by moneyed interests because they know they're the ones that got. Team of lawyers.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You know, they're the ones. Tax loopholes aren't put in there by poor people.

[B]

I mean, regulatory capture is a real thing. Look, like even in the small, in the small business food world, I've dealt with it firsthand. Like, there you're like, the only way I could meet this standard is if I was like a multimillion dollar company that could afford all this nonsense. And you're like, oh, that's why. Because this was written by a multimillion dollar company who's the only one that could afford all this nonsense. And then they gave it to a politician who made it a policy. And that's like. You're like, oh, that's. There it is.

[A]

And they don't have the time. Believe me, that. And that was the other. You know, I remember being down in Washington, we were talking about. It was the Pact act, then we were talking about burn pits for veterans, things like that. And I remember a representative coming up to us going, this is a terrible thing that's happening. But, like, we're really busy, so could you guys write it? Could you write the bill? They're asking us like a couple of idiots. Like, we're like, sure, we'll, we'll write it. But it made me realize, like, I imagine that somebody on Wall street, somebody in telecom, they might go, like, absolutely, we'll write it. We'd be delighted.

[B]

Like, honestly, that's. I think that's, It's. I don't even. I think that is what happens.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, like, that's.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And these, and these are things that are written by lawyers. I mean, meanwhile, like, you know what, A community organization writes something and, you know, and then they give it. And like, I don't even know what this is. Is this written? I mean, like, I. It's just this. It's structurally arrayed to benefit, to benefit those with wealth and power and an army of attorneys, which is. I mean, I think that's why we continue to kind of find ourselves in the streets. We find ourselves in.

[A]

Grant, can I ask you a question? It's. It's a slight change of topic. But like, well, first of all, let me just say, you know, all I heard about you for a while was, hey, this guy's got a up tattoo and some Reddit posts that aren't any good.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And yet, as I Talk to you. Your candidacy, the way that it's resonating with. With people, it couldn't make more sense. It's logical. It has it. I can almost watch the, the bottom stair and you walking up the stairs as something that is organic and builds naturally and makes total sense. So I imagine the frustration. And I'm not saying people's backgrounds shouldn't also be a part of their story and the challenges that they face and some of the things. But I'm saying it must have been a slightly frustrating experience to see the story that you're describing, which feels so organic and so grassroots and so common sense oriented, be overshadowed by.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Things that you might have regretted, not done exactly right. Or also have no real bearing.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it is. It was a uniquely frustrating experience. It still isn't sometimes because it, you know, it. But. But to like, to be. See myself being framed by people who have never met me, who know absolutely nothing about my background, really, who like, just latched on to this, like, oh, this guy said dumb things on the Internet 15 years ago. And. And I'm like, yeah, man, I did, because I was like a angry young dude who got back from my fourth combat tour and, like, was isolated and lonely and spent time bitching on the Internet.

[A]

But let me ask you a question. Why do you. So you just said something really interesting, which is, angry young man back from fourth deployment online, struggling. Why weren't you think you captured by the alt right? Because, boy, do you sound like their target audience to be captured by the anger of that movement. Because that, boy, you're in the time frame, you have the experience of it. White guy, working class, angry vet, struggling to fit in. You are fertile soil, brother, for that kind of recruitment. Why do you think it didn't go that way?

[B]

One is because even in high school, I had some absolutely spectacular teachers who sort of open. Who opened my eyes up to. I would like a, like a, A criticism of the larger system that wasn't. That didn't require you to, like, look for scapegoats in other working people.

[A]

No, that's. So you didn't fall into the like, pronoun trap where you're like, ah, they pronoun people.

[B]

No, like, and I'm voting for Trump. No, And I was in. In so like that. So like. And also, obviously, I have two very loving parents who my, like, who very much engendered in me this idea that, like, you need to be open with other people and you need to be like, empathetic and compassionate. And I thank my lucky stars that I had. I have two wonderful parents that did that. But I will say the other thing is, like, after I. When I got back, I. I definitely. Oh, how do I put this? Like, I. I definitely was looking for, like, answers. And in that, you know, like, I.

[A]

And a community.

[B]

And a community. Hence why, you know, hence why the Internet? Because I certainly wasn't getting it in the real world, but I was. But I was also going to college, and in school, I became friends with a number of people who had very, very, very different lived experiences than mine. And in doing that, I realized that, like. Oh, like, the. The best thing for me to do is to, like, spend time around people who have had a totally different life than I have and understand that their life, their lived experience is just as valid as mine. And. And that the more that I can, like, the more that I can. I can one, open myself up to those people and then also have them open up to me. The more I get to learn about the human experience and the more I get to learn about. And it's really difficult to do that and also start thinking that you should, like, hate other people. So, like, I think in some ways it was those sort of. I had. I had a good foundation, honestly.

[A]

Right. Well, it is. You know, the Internet is so good at reducing things to two dimensions, whereas life is, obviously, you're living in. In three, and from what I understand, sometimes four. But, you know, I'm wondering if that. If that world. Did you understand its appeal? Because I imagine anybody who's a Marine or anybody who served in Iraq and Afghanistan knows those guys, hangs out with those guys, loves those guys for other reasons other than some of their politics.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But I also imagine you understand the siren song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of exactly what you're saying. And. And were you cognizant of it when you were looking for community and did you ever feel its pull in that way?

[B]

I also got a lot of that in the Marine Corps. Like, like, like, you know, like the Marine Corps is. I mean, if we're talking about, like, people want to be part of a community, having a purpose, feeling connected. Like. And for young men, there's the whole, like, aggression and violence thing. Like, I was in the. I was the Marine Corps infantry.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, it doesn't get more those

[A]

things than that as aggressive and violent. Yeah, that's the training.

[B]

And I. But also. But I also got to the end of it and realized that it didn't fill any holes in me. Like, it, like, it didn't, in fact, it left, it had left me more alone and more isolated in many ways. And so like. So for me there's like I, I did kind of already know that looking for more of that was not going to be the answer. I kind of got like the maximum version of that or the maximalist version of that. And it didn't, it didn't, it didn't work right.

[A]

You didn't need the alt. Right. You were enlisted in it. So you didn't, you had lived it. Yeah, I mean like, like it.

[B]

Don't be wrong. I mean like, I will always be proud of. I love the Marine Corps. I still, I'm very proud of being a Marine. I loved many. I mean the guys I served with still remain some of my closest friends. But it is definitely like a, you know, it's, it's a hyper masculine. Certainly when I was in, it was all male and, and like all like things that are virtues. There are definitely not virtues in the normal world. And then I had to go out into the normal world, learn that the hard way. But then also the thing that actually made me happy was real community. Like the thing that actually ended up filling all the emptiness inside of me. It wasn't rage, it wasn't anger, it wasn't any of that stuff. It was literally like just spending time with other people in the place that I live and like, and working with people on projects to improve all of our lives. And suddenly in all of that I was like, oh man, like I'm a, like I'm a legitimately happier person. I mean, I spent years, like, really, really disillusioned. And then I moved. Then I moved back to Maine, started working on the ocean, which has another big part. I mean, it's, it's hard to not feel a sense of place when you're like on the sea, on your boat, looking at the seals and the eagles and like, you know

[A]

what ocean I'm in? Jersey, man. What are you talking about?

[B]

Yeah, Maine's, Maine's pretty. I mean, and that's what I mean. Like, I, like, I, like, I am so lucky. Lucky to be where I'm from. I'm so lucky that my community, when I came home, really kind of wrapped its arms around me in some ways and like, it allowed me to come back. Like I finally got to come home. And I was lucky enough that it actually is my home. It's the place I was born and raised. That has a lot to do with it. But the big thing was like really just engaging with human beings and, and building that sense of, like, real in person community. And it is challenging.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like human beings are still people.

[A]

Yeah. It's complicated.

[B]

The thing to understand, like, it's never gonna be perfect, but it is. I don't know how to say this. It like in working with other people, in connecting with other people in real life, not on the Internet, but in real life, that is kind of what rebuilt all of my hope and it's what rebuilt all of my positivity. And. And it was. It was. And I didn't have any of that when I was looking for it on the Internet. I didn't have any of it when I was really. I mean, like, I like the military kind of fills that hole for a little while when you're doing it, but the moment you leave it, it all goes away. And now you're alone. And so it doesn't actually fix it. It's not like a long term sustainable version of community. And long term sustainable community is the thing that, like, actually is. I mean, that's why I'm doing this. Amazon presents Jeff vs. Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's verde ro or the orange one, for Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habanero. More like habanero. Yes. Save the everyday with Amazon.

[A]

But see, this is why, Grant, I feel like what's so different about what you're talking about is that it lacks the platitudes of somebody viewing something from above. You're viewing everything from within you. You're talking about roots. You're talking about I was adrift and I went back and I planted these roots in my community. And here's how I did it, and here's how I rebuilt my sense of self and my sense of purpose. It is a story grounded in lived experience. And I do think that you know, it. It certainly resonates with me. Even though my experience in the world is so different than yours, because I can touch feels really tangible to me. It feels really grounded in a kind of hierarchy of needs that I can grasp rather than cable news. Platitudinous nonsense. And that is what is so missing from our politics.

[B]

It's also, this is the part that gets me. It's not how people interact, but, like, I mean, like, that's the thing that gets me about this whole experience. And like, like, I always get the question, like, from journalists, like, what do you think explains the fact that you, a random guy from eastern Maine is now like beating. Yeah, I mean like we're, you know, I'm, I'm like up 40 points on a two term elected sitting governor and, and I'm pulling far ahead of Susan Collins. I mean, and so they're all, they always call, they're like, how do you explain this? And I'm always like, you know, honestly, it's because I, I, I, I think because I just like talk like a regular human being. And in many ways I'm coming at this very much from like this space of just being down here in the real world and seeing what's going on, which is, and the other thing too is like, I also don't think that voters are, well, mostly because I, I am one too. Like, I don't think we're this like mass of people to be manipulated. Right. Like there's in the Democratic Party is still really bad at this, by the way. There's still this like, idea that we gotta, you like, there's like these magic words. We're like, oh, we didn't use the magic word last time. That would have made people think we give a about them without actually giving a. Like, it's like, nah, dude, people are smart people. Like, they don't like when they're being lied. They don't like the magic words. They want you to say things like, no, we want you to have health care. That's why we have this universal health care policy.

[A]

And here's the plan that we have that's going to, here's the plan. The money we're talking about to the value you might receive. You know, the frustration with the Democratic Party is always kind of this, which what they'll say is this, the strategy is authenticity. And you're like, right, that's not a strategy, that's a strategy. That's just a thing. And then you can smell, the thing that really rubs me the wrong way is you can smell the meeting on them when they talk, the meeting where they went. Donald Trump's resonating with them because he curses sometimes. So the next day Chuck Schumer is out there. I will this, I will pass this. And you're like, it's it, it. You smell the, the marketing, you smell the strategy, you smell the PR on them almost at all times. Has there been any connection, Graham? Have they, you know, look, the Democratic establishment has certainly put their Kalshi money and their polymarket money on Janet Mills and that, you know, is there, have you felt any sense of any curiosity? Has there been any, hey, Graham, I'm, I'm a more establishment guy. You seem to be resonating. What do you think is going on? Or do they view you again through the prism of insurgent? This insurgent must be stopped.

[B]

So re. As of late past few months, there's been a lot more reach out from like individual people kind of in the like set. Like senators. Honestly, I think there are a lot of senators now. There are a bunch of senators like Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Chris Van Hollen, that whole crew who. Martin, Martin Heinrich in New Mexico. Who like I've been. They, they reached out early on, right? And have been big supporters really the whole time.

[A]

They felt a. A fellow progressive who they thought, okay, I understand where this fellas coming from.

[B]

Totally. So like, so that's been going on since the beginning. Past couple months though, there has been more reach out from, I would say more kind of like establishment folks. However, however. And this is the important part. Not from like, not from like the dscc, not from the dnc. Like the, like nobody in the places of power remains interested.

[A]

But they're lost, dude. Like, they're. I have.

[B]

Dude, it's so bad.

[A]

They're lost.

[B]

And the thing that bothers me the most isn't like, I'm not, I'm not asking for you to like, be my friend, but you should be curious because I'm pulling 40 points ahead, right? Like, like at least, at least just reach out and be like, hey, what are you actually. Because we've never, they've never, they've never spoken ever. I've never gotten a phone call. Like, no one's ever reached out. I've never talked to anybody in leadership. I've like, no one's ever been interested and ever. Which is like kind of baffling.

[A]

I think it's because they only know two stories. The two stories are this. You're either a moderate Democrat or you're a left wing firebrand. And so what they're saying is, oh sure, the left wing firebrand, that, that does well in the primary, but that'll never travel. You know, there is that idea that, well, electability. And there's something crazy about this, as though you are the equivalent of a. You're the Democratic equivalent of a MAGA loyalist, right, who has come out with wildly controversial positions. And then you talk to you for five minutes, you go, oh, no, this is based in historical precedent. It has a very literate and literary foundation to it. It has a foundation of lived experience. Like they should be again viewing this as a Rosetta Stone. That can help them translate. And here's the trick. And maybe this is what we can kind of talk about. And I'm cognizant of your time and. Because it's.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Of your lived experience, your, your rural Internet connection.

[B]

That's the issue, actually.

[A]

That is the issue. How do you translate that lived experience? You talked about it a little bit earlier. You know, being on the planning board and understanding that, oh, sometimes the, the wording and the intention is, you know, had unforeseen consequences and, and those kinds of things. How do we translate those experiences to create that new deal for a more modern America where we do get that value, where we do change the incentives of government, the way that that money is spent? How do we make that transition?

[B]

This is, this is honestly the hardest question to answer. And my answer is going to be insufficient. I'll just tell you that right now.

[A]

Listen, it's a process.

[B]

The answer to it is that we need to build political power through getting people like me into the US Senate, into Congress. And we also need to do it while building organizational power outside of the system. Like I. There has never been a moment in American history where we've gotten good things just because the institutions or people in power decided to do it. They needed to be pressed. I mean, this is honestly why, this is why this country has killed the labor movement. We did it on purpose. We did it because the labor movement is a foundation of power that can like actually like push back against the system. We need to. So like, on this, on our campaign, this is a, above all else, this is an organizing project. Because I firmly believe that while me getting elected to the US Senate, that's a big part of it. But that needs to be in tandem with a fully organized, broad based coalition here in the state of Maine that can put pressure on, frankly, other members of our delegation if need be, because it's not going to be enough to just rely on the systems. But the, the big thing is, is that it's that building that kind of outside power, that's also how we're going to identify more people like me and then have the resources to get them elected. Because the biggest issue right now is that, I mean, I think you probably saw there was an article recently about how like majority Democrats, which is this kind of like PAC group, has been essentially curating with a lot of money, these, these chat, these, these candidates to push forward. And they're all, it's all built around this idea that we're doing like the pro corporate, pro business, moderate types Right. We need to build the opposite of that. We need to build the infrastructure. So, like, for me, the only reason this ever happened is because on day one, people who could shoot a launch video, who could help with small dollar fundraising, and who could get my name in the papers, those three things, those were assets that I had access to because some, frankly, labor unions had pitched in some support for the project to make that happen. We got to find other people from the normal world like me, and they're all gonna. They're gonna look different, they're gonna sound different, they're gonna be from different communities, and that's all what it's supposed to be. But it's a matter of infrastructure, because if we don't have that infrastructure to give them that early support, then, like, if I woke up one day and said, I want to be a US Senator, I would have walked out of the boat launch. I would have told that to the guys that I fish next to, we all would have laughed about it over coffee. I. And then we all would have moved on with our lives, Right? Like. Like, it just would not. There's no way that it would have materialized. And so to turn all of this stuff into reality through policy, frankly, we need to build the political power to make it happen. And that's why it's. That's why it's a kind of an insufficient question, because it's not actually about like or. It's an insufficient answer because the. What we have to do first before doing any of that is seize political power. And to do that, we're going to have to create the infrastructure to get normal people into places of power, which is hard when all of the money is like you mentioned. I mean, yesterday, Alex Karp and the CEO of Blackstone, like, that's Palantir and

[A]

Blackstone for those following at home.

[B]

Palantir and Blackstone unleashed $2 million of negative ads against me yesterday.

[A]

Like, just out of curiosity, what does Palantir have against you?

[B]

Well, I have. I have actively said that I think that companies that steal everyone's data should be broken up and destroyed. So, you know, it's.

[A]

So they're in the pro steal everyone's data camp, and so that, you know,

[B]

fair play to them.

[A]

But you're talking about building this political movement and. And the power. And I can tell you, at least from my experience of talking people, the thirst is out there. And you see from these sort of pro, There is a undercurrent of energy for something different. I almost think there's a kind of a funny chicken in the egg thing here in that, you know, to get more people like you and to get more infrastructure, we also need more specificity. We almost, we need the outline of that New Deal people, I think, need to know what they're signing up for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And right now they don't have a sense that they're signing up for anything different. They might be signing up for different people and, and they might be like, well, that person is pro choice, so I'm assuming there's going to be more, but they don't know economically the specifics. What do you mean by we all need health care? Like, what is that? What does that mean? We. What does it mean that, you know, labor is getting its ass kicked by capital? It's almost like if you could put those parallel. On parallel tracks, one can build the other, but I think you can't build the one without the other.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Does that make sense?

[B]

Oh, what, 100%? Like, and this is the, It's a. And that's the struggle, honestly. I mean, that's the chat. That's the challenge that. Especially when we are arrayed against such a vast amount of wealth that is going to try to push back. How. But here's the thing. We need to, like, we, we need to try, right. Like, if we don't fight back, I mean, these, these lunatics want us to own absolutely nothing, turn our lives into subscription models. Turn like all of our being into some commodified avatar in data that they be replaced by. Be replaced by robots.

[A]

By robots and autonomous intelligence. Like that's.

[B]

Yeah, no, like this is like that. Like that's what they want. And we can't. We, we literally cannot let them win. I mean, if they, if they win, that is a bleak future. Indeed. And, and we need. And I. But they're not going to the prop that we are in this very unique moment where the system itself has been built to benefit them. The average person has been sold the story for a long time that power is not for them. Power is for special smart people. Power is for people who come from the system itself, which is all nonsense. It's a bullshit story. It always has been. But it's a. So where we are right now is we are in this moment of we have to change the, the narrative around it. We have to change the way people think about power. We have to talk about the fact that it's universal health care isn't nebulous, it's Medicare for all. It's an existing Senate bill.

[A]

That's Right.

[B]

It's not, it's not magic. It's Senate Bill 1506. It's a real thing. We just need the political will to pass it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We need to strengthen labor. We need to pass things like the

[A]

pro act and the connection to people to understand why it's not scary and how it would, how it would work.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and how we could do it. But again, it's, it's that double tract of. But then people have to be convinced that the government has the credibility to be able to. Cases need to be made so that people begin to trust that the money that they're sending in, which is significant for most people, is being utilized anyway. You know, one of the things, I think people, you know, we talk so much about the system of government that we have and the way that it was designed, and it was designed as a compromise with slave owning states, let's be honest, that's how the electoral college and that's how the Senate is. That's how all that stuff exists. But I think in general, what people, I think hopefully begin to understand is there's also this fourth branch of government, which is corporate power. And that government's really the only organization strong enough, large enough to offset some of the corrosive effects of corporate power. And the government has to be able to use that and not be held hostage to it and captive by it.

[B]

It's my, it's my critique of libertarianism.

[A]

Yeah, because you could have ended up in that camp.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Your, your resume is libertarian coded, if I may say.

[B]

And I've got, look, I've got some libertarian. I mean, I live in eastern Maine. I do want to be left alone. So like, I, like there are, there, there are elements of it that I, that I totally understand. Yeah, yeah, but, but like, but my, I mean, I'll be honest, it's mostly just the fact that like, I read a lot of history books and. Right. And in my reading of history, large like consolidated capital, the only really effective way of going after it is with governmental power. And, and when we don't do it, that's when corporate power, the power of capital captures government. And the answer to that, like the answer to bad government isn't no government. It's good government. Government.

[A]

Right. And good government is possible.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I swear to you, I will die on that hill. Good government is possible.

[B]

All the, all the northern European countries show us that there are better ways of doing this. And, and you can make different choices about what you prioritize in your society where you Put your productivity where you put. Where you put your capital. I mean, does it go towards making people's lives better, or does it go towards somebody hoarding the wealth? I mean, we've, and we've made. We've chosen option B as of late, and it's just a bad option. But the only way for us to get that stuff back is to harness the power of government.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, because otherwise, I mean, multinational corporations

[A]

consumed by the other. Yeah. Yeah. So, Graham, I, I can't tell you how pleased I am to have been able to have this conversation with you. You have been caricatured in many ways in the national media. And so to be able to spend, you know, an hour or so just getting to know you and getting to know your story, you really make. You make a lot more sense to me now after spending some time with you about what this is. Is all about, I just assumed that you were the sum total of your three Reddit posts that were kind of odd. But I really do appreciate. And, and I also know that for a guy who likes to spend time alone on the ocean and with his family and with his community in, In Maine, this is a. It's a sacrifice. I, I do believe that. I believe in the same way that you signing up to, to serve and fight for this country was a sacrifice and a commitment, and I feel like you're continuing that legacy of service and sacrifice in this. It's not easy to face down the forces that are arrayed against you. And I, I appreciate you, man. I, I just wanted to say that. And, and it was really lovely to, To. To get to know you. And I wish you the best here.

[B]

Thanks, John. And I, just. Before we get off, I just want to say I've. I mean, I mean, you're like. You've been an inspiration for a very

[A]

long time, so very good.

[B]

No, I really, I appreciate it.

[A]

Graham Platner, Mainer, ocean sailor, oyster Farmer, Marine U.S. senate candidate for, for the great state of Maine. Thanks for spending time with us, Graham.

[B]

Thank you, John. Appreciate it. Hey, Mama.

[A]

Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma.

[B]

Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom.

[A]

Thanks for always being by the phone.

[B]

Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day.

[C]

When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS store US retail locations. Visit the upsstore.com airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get Your gratitude there. On time.

[A]

I'm just gonna say this. I didn't feel, maybe for the first time in a while, that I was talking to a politician. And I understand, look, he's got to get elected. But that was, dare I say, an actual conversation. It almost felt more like it was a mix between talking to Heather Cox Richardson and the Gorton's Fisherman. I'm going to put those things, those two things together.

[C]

The FDR references.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

He's like, got you.

[A]

But what was so interesting to me is he's built a political campaign on the scaffolding of lived experience and philosophical principle based in historical precedent.

[D]

Yeah. I feel it was one of the most refreshing conversations we've had on this podcast.

[C]

I've also. I've heard him talk elsewhere about just how integral organizing is, and we've heard that from, you know, some. So many candidates who have gone on to do well, and that is it. You need people who believe in you to also take up the message and be spreading it. One person can't really do everything on

[A]

their own, no question.

[D]

And I think he knows that and he'll admit that, but he's also like, this is me, and if you guys like it, great. This is what I'm trying to do. This is what I believe in. I hope you do, too, and let's do it. And it's just. He's not. Not trying to be real. It's just like, this is who I am, dude.

[A]

Right. No, it. It seemed very clear. You know, it's. It's funny, sometimes you wonder, like, how the hell is this guy in the position that he's in? And then you talk to him and go, oh, I can see how when you go to different town halls and you talk about your life and the planning board and your experience in the work, but it's not just about the experiences. It's what those experiences represent to him.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

How he's processed them, how he's filtered them. And after you talk to him, it's kind of astonishing that the whole story is like, fucked up tattoo guy. And you're like, oh, I think we. I think we might have missed the main. I think we may have buried the lead on this one.

[D]

Yes. Yeah. Purposely, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

People are not just the mistakes they make.

[B]

Right?

[D]

No, it's a headline. I mean, like, that was the thing. Like, we all saw the headlines about him. Right. But, like, you actually just listen. Two conversations he has, and you're like,

[A]

you get a sense of who he is.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

I was curious that he wasn't captured by the alt. Because I gotta tell you, like, he. He would have been a fertile person for the alt right to have influence.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

You know, when he was talking about his upbringing, I had done some reading on him, and someone who was his former high school classmate did a write up on him, and apparently he ran for student body president and lost, but was nominated for most likely to start a revolution. So I have a feeling he's, like, always been this guy.

[A]

I didn't know that that was a superlative. You could have in your high school yearbook. I think we had, like, best smile.

[D]

I won't tell you mine.

[A]

Did you have one? Brittany, you got a superlative. What'd you get?

[D]

So embarrassing. It's Most Likely to be famous.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Here you are.

[A]

And here you are.

[D]

I don't tell many people a podcast.

[A]

Extraordinary. I didn't. Did your high school have superlatives, Lauren?

[C]

Yeah, but I was not a cool kid. I was doing my own thing.

[A]

Most likely to do her own thing.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And here I am doing my thing,

[A]

and here you are doing your own thing. We all end up together. I actually, I was very pleased. I got best sense of humor.

[D]

Oh, man.

[A]

But not class clown.

[D]

Oh, you classy version of it.

[A]

I'm just saying.

[C]

Wait, do you know who. Who did do it? Because in this article I read, she was like, oh, class president. Wound up being a chiropractor. I loved that.

[A]

Do tail. Makes sense. That makes. That makes. That makes total sense. What else do the kids want to know this week? Britney.

[D]

Okay, John, they used to say only Richard Nixon could go to China. Are we at the point now where only Jared Kushner could go to Iran?

[A]

It really depends on if they're looking to build a series of malls. You know, Jared Kushner, he can go anywhere. Anywhere that there is land that can be developed for either a Barnes and Noble or a Masons. Jared Kushner can go as long as there's also a condominium aspect to it. And then a kind of throwing a bone to affordable housing in that there will also be two units. So really, he's available any country that. That. That can be. I can't tell you how many mall developments there are near where I live, where you're like, oh, what's going up over there? And they're like, I believe the Kushner is a building.

[D]

Oh, my God. So underground bunkers.

[C]

Perhaps this is a bit tangential, but it has been interesting to me how few articles have been mentioning his conflicts of Interest when talking about all of these negotiations that he's been a part of. And I get. We're, like, desensitized a bit to it, and I get that there's so much news, but that is a really big deal.

[A]

Oh, my God, it's wild. Imagine going into peace talks where Saudi Arabia, you have $2 billion from the sovereign wealth fund of that kind, and you're in there trying to broker a deal between Iran and the United States and pretending that, like, your investments from the Saudi kingdom have no bearing on any of that. This is just a volunteer gig for me. It's not a volunteer gig. It's what they used to call cold calling. Like you're going to a place to establish a relationship so that can extract wealth and money out of it later. That's the whole modus operandi of that entire family. And I would doubt there is no peace deal that they make in any country that doesn't involve. They also get a golf course and a hotel. 100% development for the whole thing. Look at us going after the man.

[D]

Yes. How gram of us.

[A]

What else they want? How gram of us is a. That's a great little bumper sticker. How Grandma, I'm gonna make them. Yeah.

[D]

John, a few weeks ago on Sean Hannity's podcast, he called you and Bill Maher funny and clever. Would you like to return the compliment?

[A]

Now, why would he do that to me? That is so not fair and not nice.

[C]

Which part of it.

[A]

All of it. Lumping me in with Mar. And then saying something nice. You're trying to. You know what he's trying. He's trying to wreck my business. That's what he's doing.

[C]

Trying to ruin your brand.

[A]

He's playing the long game. That's that martial arts training he's been doing on. Yeah, that's. I think I can. Listen, I could. I could do. Yeah, that's.

[D]

Would you like to return the compliment?

[A]

Yes, he is Bill Maher. Done. Yeah. I don't trust anything that comes out of their mouths that isn't strategic. There's some strategy in there. I. I can't necessarily figure out what that is. Why was he asked that? Or would they. Oh, I bet it was. Was it a conversation like late night sucks.

[D]

It's all, well, he gave you guys a good lob. But then said Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon, he doesn't understand they are. No, they are not funny and should not be on air.

[C]

Oh, how brave of him.

[A]

Yeah. Listen, knowing that he is the arbiter of humor in this country that he is the grand poobah of. I think most people look to him for. Hey, what. What kind of humor do you like? Because you seem hilarious.

[C]

Did he mention Gutfield or forgot?

[A]

That's the only one that does it right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

He's apparently. Anybody else who's partisan, that's turning off half the audience. They gotta. They gotta learn how to do it. Like Greg, who's really, you know, Equal opportunity, apparently. Yeah. So that's the way that goes. Yeah.

[D]

All right.

[A]

Thank you. Please do not compliment me again. Next.

[D]

The last one is a riddle.

[A]

Oh, come on. Do I need to write this down?

[D]

No, it's short.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

I am so fragile that if you say my name, you break me. What am I?

[A]

I am so fragile. If you say my name, you break me. What do you break when you talk? Is there something that you. What do you break when you talk?

[D]

That was pretty close.

[A]

It is. I. But, yeah, I don't know what the name of that would be. I was. I was trying to come up with clever. Like, I'm so fragile. I was like, Trump. Like, I was just. I was just gonna keep going. Trump. Trump. I'm so fragile.

[D]

You're really close.

[A]

Air. What is it that you break when you s. When you make a sound? Quiet. Quiet. You break silence.

[D]

Silence.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[D]

You got it. You got it.

[A]

Yeah. But not quick enough to be qualified as those are. Is that one of those things that, like, 60% of geniuses or, you know, 30 of people who get this right

[D]

are considered geniuses, and that's why you get most likely to be funny.

[A]

A sense of humor class clown would have gone with something very different. Bunch of sounds and all that sorts of stuff. Guys, once again, obviously, we look forward to having our. Our partner in arms, Jillian, here next time. But truly enjoyed. Brittany, how do they. How do they stay in. Stay in touch with us?

[D]

Twitter. We are weekly showpad. Instagram threads. Tick Tock, Blue Sky. We are weekly show podcast and you can, like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel. The weekly show with Jon Stewart.

[A]

Fantastic, guys. Thank you so much. Fascinating conversation today. Lead producer Lauren Walker, Producer Brittany Mamedovic, producer Jillian Spear, Video editor and engineer Rob Vitola, who was doing yeoman's work on today's rather spotty connections that were going on through the. And our audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce doing the same. And executive producers Chris McShane and Katie Gray. We will see you guys next week. Boy. The Weekly show with Jon Stewart is a comedy series. Central podcast is produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy productions,

[C]

Paramount podcasts.