← The "What is Money?" Show
The "What is Money?" Show
How Intention Shapes Reality | The Pysh Series | Episode 5 (WiM076)
01:00:54
Preston Pysh joins me for a multi-episode conversation exploring two books: 1) The Brain by David Eagleman, and 2) The Seat of the Soul by Gary Zukav.
Loading summary
Transcript124 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:08]
B
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the what is Money? Show. I am sitting down today with Mr. Preston Pish, a man who needs no introduction at all. And in the. Our last sessions together, we went through the brain, and now we're going to start diving into another side of being the soul. The book we're looking at today is called Seat of the Soul by Gary Zhukov. And, man, you know, Preston, when we talked about doing this originally, you said you wanted to talk about the brain. And you also recommended this book as a companion. And this one is a trip, man. Yeah.
- [00:54]
A
And the last couple books are very science based, a lot of research, and this one is very spiritual and I would probably say kind of Buddhist in the way, and then the teachings and stuff like that. And the only reason that I. And I think I might have said this in some of the earlier interviews, we did them a while back, but the only reason I really kind of got dialed into this book was because Oprah Winfrey had just raved about how it influenced her, impacted her life. I was like, all right, well, she's somebody that I really kind of admire. I think she's done a lot and just really an impressive kind of person. And so I read it and the book kind of changed my life, to be quite honest with you.
- [01:45]
B
So, yeah, I think reading, and I told you this as I was reading it, I remember texting you because it goes off on some kind of strange tangents, but very strange. I, at one point, my experience reading the book is like, this is super profound and deep. At other points I'm like, is this book serious?
- [02:06]
A
Like, it gets almost same experience, same experience.
- [02:09]
B
Silly in a way. And then it. Yeah, but the end of it, the net outcome. I had very much the same experience as you in that I found myself just having a different internalized experience.
- [02:24]
A
Yeah.
- [02:25]
B
Several takeaways. But the big one, which I think we'll start off here with, is intention.
- [02:31]
A
Yeah.
- [02:31]
B
Really this idea that intention is the seed of all of it. Right. All your words, all your actions. I'm reminded of many arguments I've had with female counterparts that have said, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Whereas as a man, I'm always, like, trying to say the right, you know, younger, more argumentative me was always trying to, like, win the argument, I guess. But now.
- [03:02]
A
Your body language was actually sending the real message. Right.
- [03:05]
B
And maybe even the intention. Right. Something deeper than that. And so now I've. I've just caught myself trying to constantly evaluate what intention I'm bringing into a situation.
- [03:16]
A
Yeah.
- [03:16]
B
So what, you know what, whether that's an action or words or even writing, it's.
- [03:21]
A
It's amazing how much we lie to ourselves.
- [03:23]
B
Yes.
- [03:24]
A
What, what we, what we tell ourselves is our intention. But like when you literally pause and you really kind of go into. And I know we were talking about the brain, you go to neocortex kind of level thinking, critical thinking, deep critical thinking. And you ask yourself why the five times and you really kind of force yourself to be objective when you're thinking through. What really is my intention? Is it this thing that I'm telling myself at this surface level argument or is this something way, way deeper than that? And I would argue it's almost always the latter. And you're just lying to yourself.
- [04:07]
B
Yeah. It's tricky to even put this into language because I agree. The intention, the way I'm perceiving it at least. And we'll get into how the author describes it. It's almost like it's a pre intellectual thing. There's something bubbling up from within you, like your actual being or your soul perhaps. I don't know. That is your actual intention. And they do this to you in yoga practice too, where at the beginning of every practice it's like the first thing you do is set your intention before you do anything. Um, whereas the story we tell ourselves, like we didn't wrap that intention in some narrative.
- [04:46]
A
Yeah.
- [04:46]
B
And that's how. That's where we can self deceive, I guess. Um, and.
- [04:51]
A
And at the end of the day, it's your core being of like who you are that is driving those narratives and those things that you're telling yourself that you think you know about yourself. But if you're able to truly look at it objectively, especially if you had the privilege of having somebody who just does not care whether they hurt your feelings or not, and whether you're able to handle sitting down with a person like that and then asking them, why do you think I really did this? Honestly just hurt my feelings. I don't care. Why do you think I really did this? And they would tell you. Most people can't handle that conversation. They can't even get past the first sentence or two. I think finding somebody else that could actually tell you what that is is insanely difficult to do because they're so. They're socially wired to not ever go there because they don't want to incur the damages that would be associated with having that conversation.
- [05:58]
B
Yeah. This is perhaps related to people pleasing to Some extent, absolutely. We're conditioned, at least conditioned, perhaps even hardwired, to not want to step on one another's toes, so to speak.
- [06:13]
A
And the reason why is because you don't have to endure the relationship, the long term close knit relationship with that person in almost all social constructs outside of like a really close knit family situation. So like you and I, we're. We're friends. Right? Like you and I talk on Twitter and that kind of stuff. But in the grand scheme of things like the time we actually spend together and that we actually interact with each other relative to all those other interactions in our lives is minuscule. Right. So am I going to risk that relationship and that bridge and that connection with you to go out and really say something that could potentially upset you or just harm you, or maybe you just don't understand my intention of why I'm saying something? All of those things most people have learned, whether they realize it or not, to not go there to preserve that bridge and that relationship and that communication that has been established between the two bodies and those two people.
- [07:12]
B
Right, no, that's a great point. So, you know, again, I consider you a friend as well. However, the time that we are physically in one another's presence relative to my family. Relative to your family is very small.
- [07:26]
A
So part of the calculus.
- [07:27]
B
Yeah, yeah, you could say that we actually have a more surface level relationship, which just makes sense. And this is true for pretty much everyone outside of your family and super close friends. So to try and say something to someone that you have that degree of relationship with, that would cut to their core potentially. Right. Especially if you're being critical, you're taking a surface level relationship and going deeper. So there's a lot of risk associated with that.
- [07:56]
A
And then the risk pours into the network. So whether people think of it in these terms or not, it doesn't really matter. But I know you have a network of all these other people that you connect with. You know, I have this network of all these other people that I'm connected with that, you know, I know and all that kind of stuff. Right. The seven degrees of Kevin Bacon type thing. Like we all know that that exists. And so like, am I going to say something that upsets you or says or say something that in my intention is to maybe help or do or whatever that is? Right. I'm going to preserve that. I'm not going to say it because I don't want to potentially disrupt that network of influence that's associated with the other counterparty for something that would be a really small, if any, value capture at all for the person who would be saying what they'd be saying.
- [08:44]
B
And the paradox here is that you're right. That person that's saying it has little to gain. But the person receiving it, assuming it's genuine and it's authentic feedback, has a lot to gain.
- [08:57]
A
A ton of the game.
- [08:59]
B
It's hard for us to see ourselves.
- [09:01]
A
Most can't handle it, though.
- [09:03]
B
Very true. It takes. It takes, I don't know, either wisdom, experience, or both to be able to accept constructive criticism and actually implement it.
- [09:15]
A
You have to. The person who's receiving it has to always start with the fundamental idea. Like, I have blemishes. I got tons of blemishes, and I can't see them. And I really want somebody to help me see them. If they're not starting from that frame of reference and from that frame of mind, like, you're dead on arrival.
- [09:35]
B
Yeah, right. Yeah.
- [09:37]
A
How many people do you know personally that are like, tell me everything I'm doing wrong, man. I truly want to know. I want to hear it just, like, lay it on. So few. There's like, nearly nobody, but it's super powerful. But if you have it super powerful, like, insanely powerful.
- [09:55]
B
Yes, it is. And I would argue, and you've provided this for me in circumstances we can discuss at some point, but you've helped me see my own personal blemishes at times when they're being shown, and that deepened our friendship, I would say. So there's a risk and reward again. Right. The person delivering the message is taking a risk, but there is the potential reward of deepening the bond.
- [10:21]
A
But I would have never in a million years even entertained the idea of it if I didn't think the receiver, you could handle it two ways to. I would just never even initiate it and be like, yeah, well, so much for that.
- [10:38]
B
Right?
- [10:40]
A
And I can't even tell you how many people through. Throughout my life, that's pretty much been the case where I just kind of smile and be like, okay, well, hey, have a good day.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes that is the optimal strategy. Okay. Before we go into what the author says about this, I think you've already naturally touched on this, but there's. So there's a relationship between intention and incentives. Even if you're not cognitively expressly going through it, you have some deeper sense, some deeper intuition of these risk and rewards we've just been describing. So do you think intention purely comes from incentives, or is there another aspect to it because it doesn't feel right to me to say that it's. And I know we always say no man is better than his incentives in bitcoin and that's very good for adversarial thinking and game theory and all of this. However, I don't, I mean, maybe this is just self deceiving, but you don't want to believe that. You're just responding to your incentives. Like there's no part of you that is non deterministic in that sense. That doesn't feel like a true thought for me at least. I don't know. How do you feel about that?
- [11:58]
A
You know, I think it's a good. I think it's a good way to frame it because everybody's got incentives that is motivating their actions. My takeaway in the book is are you doing things just for yourself? Are you doing things that are kind of mutually beneficial for both parties or are you doing them completely for the other person? And I think when you're doing it for the last two, when you're doing something that you feel is genuinely beneficial for both parties, win, win. The classic win, win in negotiations, or you're just through love or whatever it is that's driving you to give, to add value to other people's lives instead of adding it to yourself. Those two incentives, or I'm sorry, those two intentions for those latter two categories are where you are going to create a. Create this force that is put into motion. And this is where it gets spiritual into the universe, that the gears have to figure out a way to somehow repay that reciprocity to balance the equation. Right? And the first time that I read this idea that it's talking about in the book where like the balancing of karma is actually based on your intentions, not necessarily your actions. This idea for me was groundbreaking. And I just thought to myself, okay, so let me just lean into this and let me embrace this idea. Let me just try it out and let me be just hyper aware of what my intentions are. So even down to basic conversations or basic actions, after reading this book, I was kind of like, okay, Preston, why did you do that? Did you really, did you say that to make that person feel good about themselves, or did you say that to try to create some type of social influence so people think you're more important? Right. When I started asking me, asking myself those questions, I found myself kind of like when I was being honest with myself, it's like, wow, you just did that to try to impress that person. You just did that to gain social status. You just did that to. And it was so self interested type actions and incentives. The incentives were that. And so I just kind of started changing the way I was acting. I was like, you know what, let me just try to do the opposite. Let me just try to just give to another person. Let me just create a video course that's teaching myself self interest, but also maybe helping 10,000 people or 100,000 people learn something. And just let me put it out there with no strings attached. I don't care if I get paid. Doesn't matter to me. And what I found is it was very slow at first. And I think a lot of this is just the karma obligations of how the gears are turning, right? Just started slowly. I just started receiving gifts in my life. You're just like, okay, so where the hell did that come from? And I think the thing that was really surprising to me is you might give to another person, but you might not receive. The gears might not turn in a way that it comes back to you. For I think that's the illusion. The illusion is people think that if I give right now, I have to receive back immediately, that the system has to balance itself. But I would tell you that's the illusion. What happens is it'll balance itself, but it's going to balance itself in the most efficient way that doesn't make sense to you individually. It's going to balance itself when the timing is right according to all these other things that are at play at play that you cannot possibly understand. Okay. And I suspect that if it's paid back to you with more time, just like how we understand how financial markets work, it's paid back with some sort of interest attached to it. If you're not paid back for 20 years, maybe what you get back is more valuable than what you gave 20 years previously. Right. And so I don't know for me personally it works for me. It might not work for somebody else listening to this, but for me personally, when I'm on the side of the equation where I'm either doing a win win situation or I'm just downright giving to another person, it just comes back to me. And it feels like it comes back to me with interest. And it's just like at this point it's so obvious to me and my personal life, again, personal story, it's so obvious to me that this works that I could not even imagine doing it any other way, which is, it's, it's.
- [17:10]
B
Kind of mind blowing and funny at the same time. Because it's like when you come to actually see this karmic energetic accounting or whatever you want to call it in the universe, and you see it in action right to your point, you, you rendered some value, you didn't receive anything back for 10 years or whatever the number was initially, whatever. All of a sudden that observation now aligns karma with your self interest. So it's like, not only are you. I was just having this little bit.
- [17:42]
A
And when you have abundance. When you have abundance, it's so much easier to give, of course.
- [17:47]
B
Yes, yes.
- [17:48]
A
Right. So then it compounds and the wheel starts spinning in the. Almost like a water wheel, right? When you have abundance, you look at a guy, any of these billionaires, or people that have an abundance of wealth, which is a completely different thing than what we're talking about right here. We're talking about an abundance of energy that's been given. And it can be any form. It could be monetary, it could be knowledge, it could be anything that adds value to another person's life. Once you get that water wheel spinning in that direction, it's just so much easier to be like, well, I have an abundance of this. Of course I can give you more. I have courses on my website. And somebody's like, you mean you give me a lifetime subscription for free? Like, yeah, sure, man, I don't care. Here you go. And I give it to them, right? And then it's just. The water wheel just keeps turning.
- [18:38]
B
Yeah, it's an excellent point. And I think you're. Economics teaches this too, right? The incentives of cooperation.
- [18:49]
A
I would tell you nature, I think, is a better teacher. Just look in nature of energy exchange and how it arrives. And you just look at how a plant receives energy from the sun and how it's able to transmute that. And then it provides the source of some type of fruit that then a human can come and extract. And then the seeds, those seeds are. Then the human eats them and they goes through the digestive tract and then the seeds are planted somewhere else and then it spreads, right? It's this energy exchange that's constantly happening and it's giving, it's expounding, it's creating life everywhere. It's mind blowing, right? It's crazy.
- [19:39]
B
Yeah, no, excellent point. I often think of that very concept of exchange as the most fundamental reality. If everything is always changing, which is the one constant in the universe, change is only accomplished through exchange. And I guess economics is really just our human version of that. If we have voluntary open exchange, it creates more economic wealth and Abundance in the same way this free exchange creates the fruit of the plant.
- [20:16]
A
And that's how I see bitcoin. So when you're looking at bitcoin like a satoshi, it's energy that's been captured into a digital unit that is basically the ATP of the body. So your mitochondria are creating ATP, which is the energy or the currency within every one of your cells. And it's just happening on a lard. And when you zoom out now you're talking about a group of people inside of a country, you zoom out to the planet level. And like that energy exchange that's happening, that is not being manipulated by few actors that are self interested, that have intentions for themselves to gain over the cost of the remainder. That's the system we're in right now. And I think what's happening on a global scale is all of that is being flipped on its head and it's like this won't be tolerated anymore.
- [21:18]
B
Is that the new system? Is it the miracle of bitcoin that it's now aligned individual self interest with an intention that is positive towards the collective? Because you're incentivized to hold. But holding also defunds central banking and all these things that are really bad.
- [21:37]
A
These self interested actions and intentions.
- [21:40]
B
But it is a self interested action which is crazy to hold.
- [21:44]
A
Well, so if you would pull the thread on that and you look at what does it provide? So yeah, you're self interested to hold. But what is the greater good that comes out of something like this where one unit is now spent in one country that holds and retains that buying power without some type of currency arbitrage advantage over one versus the other, it neutralizes that. And so what's so fascinating about, and I tell you, one of the reasons I'm so bullish on it is because when I look at what it provides over what currently exists and is it more aligned for the collective or is it more aligned to the individual to benefit from? I would strongly argue that it is going to make the collective benefit from that. And so if we're really going to get into an economics conversation on this. So everybody's in debt up to their eyeballs all over the planet. They're effectively slaves. People are slaves. They don't have any type of disposable equity or income to their name whatsoever. If we were going to compare it to like you go back and you look at like the Egyptians building like the pyramids like they were slave labor effectively in order to do these feats and These things, how did they convince so many people to work towards this common goal? Well, they were effectively slaves. I would argue that what you see today in the world is a very similar thing. If you live in a house, you don't own it. You've worked for 20 years and you're still in debt up to your eyeballs. You're remortgaging your house, you have no equity and you're just still churning and your buying power is diminishing. You're a slave, period. So this system is. You and I both believe we're going to go through a hyper bitcoinization event here whenever, whenever that happens. But the real benefit for that is the people that have bought a house that own the equity, but they own a tiny little sliver because it's in their name, and the rest is all owned by the bank through fixed income debt. That debt is going to blow up and they're basically going to get a house that they're paying back with worthless money. So when I think about is this good for the individual or is this good for the collective? This, this is very good for the collective. Very good for the collective that this scenario would play out. It might not seem like it right now.
- [24:09]
B
No, I mean, clearly I completely agree with you. And I think that is why most bitcoiners become so super passionate about it. Once you get to a certain depth of the rabbit hole, fix the money, fix the world, right? It is interesting though, that again, surface level relationship. If people have a surface level relationship with bitcoin, they're not drawn in by save the world, they're drawn in by this thing. Number go up. So it just seems really powerful how bitcoin reconciles these two seemingly oppositional directives, self interest and collective. In the same way it seems like karma reconciles these things.
- [24:54]
A
So let's pull the thread on that.
- [24:56]
B
In the universe or wherever.
- [24:58]
A
So if you're a person who's worked your tail off for 25 years, you have nothing to show for, you're in debt up to your eyeballs, you've kept remortgaging your house and this thing comes along that all of a sudden makes those payments super easy to make. Maybe that's karma, maybe that's the universe trying to balance the equation to the people that have provided the energy and provided the intentions that are associated with those actions, that they're going to be repaid for their actions. At least that's how I see it. I see this as being quite obvious that this would be how the universe would play out.
- [25:41]
B
That's powerful. So bitcoin is karmic money? Something like that.
- [25:47]
A
It's just. I don't know, I just see it as being really obvious.
- [25:55]
B
Yeah. Yes. It's funny that again, once you've reached a certain level of the rabbit hole, I think it is kind of incredibly obvious. And I try to put it into little one liners for people. Like, I called it in burns the other day instead of insurance. So insurance on money printing. Kind of a dad joke there. But that's kind of all it is, right?
- [26:18]
A
It's like you didn't have your shirt tucked in at Miami 2010. I did. I did. I had that sucker tucked in so tight, I might. I might just keep doing it just to keep people laughing.
- [26:31]
B
You did. I can confirm that. All right. I will read some words from the author here just to keep us rolling. So he says, quote, these words became my living creed. Every action, thought and feeling is motivated by an intention. And that intention is a cause that exists as one with an effect. If we participate in the cause, it is not possible for us to participate in the effect. In this most profound way. We are held responsible for our every action, thought, and feeling, which is to say for our every intention. So this is very deeply. I mean, he's making the case that intention is responsibility. So you have to be responsible for your own intentions to act in the world.
- [27:28]
A
I feel just like a ton of pressure just hearing that. Like, how can't.
- [27:33]
B
Pressure reading it?
- [27:35]
A
How can't you feel the pressure? So if you buy into that idea, which I totally do, like, can you imagine, like, the responsibility now that you hold when you hear that and what that might mean for you and for every single engagement and every single thought and every single action that's. That's tethered to those intentions that you're acting upon?
- [27:57]
B
Right.
- [27:57]
A
What that means. And so if you're a person with bad intentions and you're hearing this like, God, that's a brutal realization to kind of come to and to think through. But here's the beauty of it. It's like, you can turn it around. You can start experimenting. That's what I would tell somebody who's hearing this. And they're like, my God, this is some crap. Right? And that's fine. I encourage people to live your life the way you need to live it. I'm just telling you what has worked for me. And the benefits and the tremendous gifts I've received in my life are just unbound. It's crazy.
- [28:40]
B
It's crazy.
- [28:42]
A
I attribute them to this idea of treating and respecting every single action and every single intention that's associated with that action as being something that's either going to come back to me in a good way or a bad way. Think of it like this. You're out there and you're throwing boomerangs all day long and you might throw some boomerangs that are really badly intended and they're going to come back and you're going to feel those. When they come back, you're going to throw some boomerangs that are well intended to help other people, beneficial for both parties. And when they come back, you're going to enjoy and reap those rewards of that harvest.
- [29:28]
B
Hey everybody. As you've no doubt learned by watching this show, Bitcoin is the single most important asset you can own in the 21st century. And one of the most important companies in Bitcoin today is NYDIG. NYDIG's mission is to get Bitcoin into the hands of as many people as possible. One of the ways they are accomplishing this mission is by empowering banks and financial technology companies to offer their own bitcoin products and services. As a true game changer in the industry, NYDIG is safely unlocking the power of bitcoin for forward thinking individuals and institutions alike. Led by Robbie Gutman, Yin Zhao and Ross Stevens, NYDIG has absolutely exploded onto the bitcoin scene recently and has quickly become a leader in this space. So whether you are a professional investor looking for asset management services or a company looking to white label your own bitcoin product or service, consider nydig your single source solution for everything Bitcoin. I like the analogy. Throwing boomerangs with all day long word action. Everything you do, but you get to choose the intention. Sort of not, I don't want to say determines the target. But if you set your aim properly, which maybe we could call this a high moral aim or something like that, that you're going to receive it back in a positive way. Maybe not the way you expect or understand, but that or when you expect or when. But you're trusting this universal accounting mechanism. Yes, we're calling karma, but it's not just some frou frou silliness like it's, it's observable. And this really justifies freedom too, right? The idea of trying to compel someone to do something else. It's like you can't compel a true intention. Clearly you could compel someone to do something at a Gunpoint or whatever, under legal compulsion, whatever it is, but they're not going to do it with a true intention.
- [31:48]
A
This is my favorite part of this idea is you become so much less judgmental of another person when you buy into this idea. Because my opinion is, hey, if you do something or I see you doing something and I have to admit I'm terrible on Twitter. Sometimes I'll just engage people and be like, you suck. Right? I'm guilty. It's just like anybody else is guilty. You're not going to do this perfectly. I'm sorry, you're just not. But most of the time when I'm engaging with somebody, it's because I suspect they have a very bad intention. And what's nice about this idea is you don't have to judge them. You can just let them go. Because guess what, the universe has got it covered, right? It's got it covered. It's going to bring it back to them. And so maybe, hey, that's the universe working through me to like come back and smack them. But me as a person who's interacting with that and engaging it, well, now maybe I'm participating in something that's creating bad karma for myself. And so the best way to maybe handle it is just to kind of hands off. That person's going to be dealt with when the timing is right. And they're going to be dealt with in a way that corresponds and equally matches that energy and that intention in a way that is what they need in order to learn what they're supposed to learn in this life.
- [33:14]
B
Yeah, excellent, well said. The thought that occurred to me there is we have to be careful not to self deceive when we are coming after somebody like, oh, this is the universe getting after their bad intention.
- [33:28]
A
Because yeah, no, it's. Yeah, you're exactly right. You don't want to. You have no idea what the hell is actually happening or why that's happening to that person. Right. Like any person who thinks that they know are totally fooling themselves that they know more than they do. So yeah, it's just, you know what, don't be judgmental. Like, hey, for whatever reason it's happening to that person and you know, I have no idea why and I'm here to support them, I'm here to help them if they, if they would request it.
- [34:06]
B
This gets to, you know, something Jordan Peterson said, which I really liked, is that he started to train himself to never feel weak when he spoke. I guess if he was lying or if he had some mal intent Perhaps he could physically feel it in himself that it was devitalizing to him in some way. So he tried to just not ever feel that way. When he spoke. He'd always tried to say things that made him feel strong. And I think that points to me to the depth of intention. It is something below. Once you start wrapping it in a narrative, intellectually it's no longer intention. It's. You've taken that energy of intention and you've put some story around it and it's kind of 50. I'll say 50.
- [34:52]
A
50.
- [34:53]
B
It could be self deceiving, let's just put it that way. So this is something that we always have to check ourselves on. Like, are you acting from a very primal, basic, fundamental level of feeling and intention, or is this some intention you have wrapped in a story to justify perhaps a mal intention of some kind?
- [35:16]
A
Yeah, and I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier. This is like how much people fool themselves. So you can go through scenarios like let's say a person broke into a store, stole some food and left the store. You could look at that and say that person, hands down, has bad intentions right now. You could, let's just pull an extreme on that story and say the person's child was literally on their deathbed and they were malnutrition and they were just trying to get some food, they had no money whatever, and so their intention was to break into the store, steal food, and they had an intention to somehow repay the store owner at a later date with some type of interest or whatever. Right. The scenario is different. The intention is way different for a person who wouldn't know any of that and they'd just be watching it from the outside. They would look at that and say, well, it was a bad action that I observed and that person's evil and they should be punished. And we have laws that protect store owners that say this is not actions that should be acceptable. And I'm not saying that it should be acceptable. All I'm saying is the line between good and bad is maybe a whole lot blurrier than people realize. And you shouldn't be so quick to judge that you know, what is good and bad. Good and bad, which I hate using those two words because you don't understand the actual intentions of the actors involved and you don't understand the bigger picture. If you could zoom out and understand all these things that are happening that we just don't have any conscious awareness of, I just think we would be in, wow. We just couldn't Even understand the breadth of the energy exchange that's happening in the universe. And so I guess my only point with that is you might want to guard against thinking you understand somebody's intentions. Focus on your own intentions, not somebody else's.
- [37:29]
B
Yeah, you can certainly only relate to your own intention. You can try and understand someone else's through their actions or other methods perhaps, but you can truly only have this relationship I think the author's describing with your own intentions.
- [37:50]
A
That's right.
- [37:53]
B
So interesting. So what if in the case or in the instances that you do act out of mal intent, which I think we all at least have probably do sometimes every day, how. And I reminded everything you're saying just reminds me of that quote, the line between good and evil running down the heart of every man. Like that's exactly what all this is pointing to. So in the instance that you cross that own line in your heart and you act out of mal intent, how do you identify it? And if you can identify it, how do you rectify it?
- [38:34]
A
Well, I think the latter is the harder piece. I think deep down inside most people can feel and sense that. Not all. And I think where this really gets into. And if I was going to push back on the authority. Right. Because I love this book. This book has influenced me tremendously. But I've also studied a lot of books on the brain and I understand that there are people that go through neurological issues, especially when they have tumors and whatnot, that will warp how they view the world and how they are able to. Their intentions get totally warped from what you and I would say are good or bad, good and bad, using intentions. And so I think that's where if I was going to say this book goes off the railroad tracks. And where I would argue that I disagree with maybe some of the ideas is in that realm of things that we know that are documented from a lot of neural research and studying. Now let me go back to your point. There is how do you rectify this if you feel that you've done this? I think you go to the parties that were immediately affected and you do your best to just be like, hey, I messed up. I did this because of this intention which was self serving and I want to make it right and that's it. And I mean that's pretty much all you can do. And I think in a lot of situations you'll find that the person be like, wow, okay, whatever. They'll just look at you like, why is this weirdo telling me this? And it'll just be Over. And if you feel like you have to provide more energy to the person that was affected by your self serving interest, well then do what you got to do to make yourself feel like you've balanced it now and not 10 years from now when it's not on your terms. Because that's really what you're trying to do. You're trying to adjudicate the imbalance that has been created on your terms instead of terms that you don't control or when it's going to be balanced.
- [40:55]
B
Yeah. Because again to the karmic compounding interest, if you cut it the wrong way, it's going to come back to you.
- [41:03]
A
He doesn't say that in the book. That's me, the finance.
- [41:06]
B
But I agree with you.
- [41:07]
A
That's the person to me. Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't it? Everything has a cost when time is attached to the duration of return. So if that's how it works here between us humans, why wouldn't it work like that? For the way the universe is structured, I would suspect that there's some type of cost associated with the delivery of something at a later date. Who knows?
- [41:32]
B
It's Prestonpy's theory on whatever completely makes sense. Though the time has a cost. You would assume that principle operates in the sphere of intentionality as well. So to your point, you want to adjudicate these things on your terms in the near term to rectify them before they rectify you, so to speak.
- [41:53]
A
That's right.
- [41:55]
B
I'm reminded here of the author doesn't say that.
- [41:58]
A
The author doesn't say that. I'm sorry.
- [42:00]
B
Correct. Yeah, yeah. We're adding the financial lens to this perhaps. I have a daughter that's almost three years old and I'm just reflecting on how difficult it is for her to apologize. That's like the hardest thing in the world, to look mom and dad and apologize. And it does take courage I think still as an adult to like fess up to your own egoic failures or mal intention, whatever it is, your self deception, that takes courage to admit not only to yourself but also to others.
- [42:35]
A
You'Re holding yourself accountable. And that can be a painful experience because it's almost, and I'm going to use an extreme example, if I told you, hey Robert, hold out your hand and cut your hand just a small bit. You're inflicting pain upon yourself in a physical way. What we're talking about is inflicting pain upon yourself in a mental or a responsibility kind of way. And most people just have not been wired to make that a normal occurrence. And some of this might have been. So I went to a military academy. The first year you're there, they drill this into your head is just self accountability. If you mess up whatever it is and if somebody underneath of you messes up, you didn't even do it. It was somebody who you were responsible for did it. You know what you say to your superior? You say it was my fault that Snuffy back here did something wrong. Was my fault. I take full responsibility for that. I'm 100% accountable and I will make sure it doesn't happen again. Right. And how many people are conditioned in this way? Very, very few.
- [43:59]
B
Yeah, you shared that with me at a very important time. And that was one of my watershed moments. I think perhaps seeing through my own self deception was this idea of just taking responsibility. Because even if, like how do you can't even trace the arrows of causality necessarily, but if something is happening to you, it's almost a certainty, especially if you're buying into this karmic accounting thing that the energies in the universe needed to be reconciled and you're now experiencing something that you need to learn from. Right. One way or another. And that, you know, that sat with me for days and I reflected on it and it occurred to me that Christ could be considered the archetype of that. The guy that took responsibility for everything. Right?
- [44:53]
A
Yeah.
- [44:54]
B
And religious, non religious, that's what it is. The Christ consciousness is symbolic of. I think the author even talks. The author, this is not a Christian book whatsoever. But the author talks about the nature of Christ consciousness. And yeah, it's just really profound.
- [45:13]
A
Well, this is the irony that I've noticed. When you take responsibility for actions, most people aren't prepared to hear hear it the counterparty, they're not ready for it and they have no response for it. So when somebody says, hey, you really messed up, you really did a bad job at X, Y and Z, the response that you typically receive is just total defense. I've got to defend my position. Opposed to let me receive that data point, let me objectively look at it, let me consider their point of view and then maybe I might just agree with it and be like, you know what, you're right, I could have done a better job at that. Instead of talking about the three standard deviation reason why that might have happened, maybe you just double down and say, you know what, you're right, I think I did mess up and I think I'm going to do a better job at that next time. Now what does the other person say to that? And this isn't a game to outmaneuver the person who's accusing you of any. It's not that at all. It's just like, why don't you just internalize it, acknowledge it, agree with it, and then maybe try to fix it. But when you respond back to that person with, I agree with you, I think I did mess up.
- [46:41]
B
Yes.
- [46:42]
A
They're dumbfounded. They have no idea. They're like, all right, well, don't do that again. Or they won't even say. They won't even say that. Typically what they'll say is that is they actually feel a little bad because you just took the blow right on the face, right? And they're kind of like, well, you know, it was just a one time thing, you know, I think next time you'll be fine.
- [47:04]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:05]
A
They're almost kind of trying to counter the, the blow because you just took it. It's actually humorous. I would highly encourage people, next time somebody gives you objective criticism, just agree with them. Even if you don't agree with them, just agree with them. Just to see what happens. And you'll be blown away. You won't even believe what the response back. It's almost like, whoa. Huh. Amazing.
- [47:36]
B
The few times that I'm reflecting on here is people, thank you. Actually, you know, they're like, oh, thank you for bringing that up. And I'm sure that was hard. And yeah, it's, it's very positive.
- [47:48]
A
So this is really important is your, and this goes to the body language. Do we talk about the body language on our previous recordings at all?
- [47:57]
B
Not a lot. I think we may have touched on it once.
- [48:00]
A
Okay, so read the book. What everybody, like, your body is saying, incredible book, incredible book. Read this book. You are communicating. The person who's reading you is picking up on your maneuvers of your body, your hands, your legs and all of it. You might think that they're not and they're interpreting what you're saying. What you're saying, I would argue, is like, and I'm just throwing a stat out there, right? Like, it's like 30% of like, what they're actually thinking you're saying.
- [48:34]
B
Yeah.
- [48:35]
A
The rest of it's coming from the body language. So, like, if, if I, if you ask me a question, like, no, that's not it. It's not it. Right? Am I, am I being honest? Like, that's totally it.
- [48:48]
B
Right? Right. Either that or you look irritated.
- [48:50]
A
I couldn't tell because my Body language was suggesting something that was totally off of that. And everybody. I don't old can pick up on what you're really saying when you respond. So like if somebody comes up and they're criticizing, you're like, you shouldn't have done that. And you're like, you know what? I agree with you. I'm going to look into that. Like, you can tell sincerity. You can, you can, right? You can read credence on a person and that is something you cannot fake.
- [49:23]
B
Yeah.
- [49:24]
A
So how do you do these things and actually mean it and not just say it for the reaction you're hoping you're going to see or whatever? You have to actually mean it. You actually have to. I don't know how to teach somebody to do that. I don't know how to teach somebody to do that.
- [49:45]
B
It almost can't be taught. I mean, it's. What is the.
- [49:49]
A
You have to want to improve, you have to want to.
- [49:51]
B
You can't get an ought from an. Is one of those things where they try to separate science and morals. It's like you do have to choose to want to set a higher moral aim if you want to call it that for yourself. Again, no one can even force it on you. And to reinforce the point, the overall point and your point, this isn't a game you can just play with people. You can't just now meet all criticisms with, oh, I'm sorry, I'll, I'll fix it. Because that is an untrue intention as we're. I mean, that's the point. And they'll read it of untrue intentions. They detonate on you totally.
- [50:27]
A
So, like, if I was going to really go to the essence of like, how does a person acquire these skills? They'll look at themselves objectively. You have to start with the idea that you're fallible, that you make mistakes all the time and you can't necessarily see them. If you're starting from that premise that you make way more mistakes than you realize that they're happening all day long. If you start with that, which is humility. Right. If you start with that, you're going to be able to do those things. But if you start with the fundamental belief structure that you condition to yourself that understand, I'm infallible, I don't make mistakes. Everybody else in the world is jacked and I'm perfect and everything I do just turns to gold, turns to bitcoin. But everything else that everybody else does is jacked. It's terrible. They're worthless they're just making mistakes all day long. If you have been conditioning your brain to think like this, you're not going to be that person that can objectively view yourself in a situation.
- [51:47]
B
Yeah, well said. And so the author draws this line between the personality and the soul. And so what I think we're sort of describing here is it's the personality that wants to defend itself. Maybe you could call this the ego. Right. The personality and ego kind of synonymous. Whereas the soul. The proper approach from the soul is to. Is humility and learning, I guess, by extension. Right. Because if you're. If you're giving and giving. Yes. And selflessness. Correct. If you're exhibiting these things, then you are positioning yourself to learn. Right. If you approach something with humility and giving this, all these things, and so you get this ability. Almost like what you're describing is we all have the blind spots. We're all screwing up every day. So not only are we screwing up every day in multiple ways, but we may not even be cognizant of it. But by approaching the world and our relationships with humility, with givingness, we give this ability to see through the eyes of others in a way. Right. We can now see, I guess, clear up some of our blind spots. And maybe this is what Jordan Peterson says when he talks about us outsourcing our sanity to those around us. You need these kind of trusted few people, which I guess you build through good intentionality that can give you good feedback on these blind spots of yourself.
- [53:18]
A
I like that. I would make it way simpler. Think about your being like your matter is being a node in which energy flows through all day long. So I'm collecting light energy, I'm hearing sound energy, like you put food into your mouth. Like all of it is just energy that's flowing through your mass and then coming back out in some type of way. Sometimes it's coming out through a keyboard, sometimes it's coming out through your mouth. And that's then distributed through this Internet system. 100,000 people hear the conversation of what came out of your mouth. Energy's flowing in, energy's flowing out. And is that energy and that data that's being processed through your body and then transmitted out, emitted out? Is it being emitted out to benefit the other bodies and the other actors within this overall system? Or is the energy coming in and being used in a parasitic kind of way to benefit and to put energy back out, but really with the intention for it to come for more and more energy to come back into the body itself? And to benefit that matter. And so it's kind of binary, right? It's kind of like. And although I don't know if I would call it binary. But the net is binary.
- [55:04]
B
Yes.
- [55:05]
A
Right. So I might have an intention and an action for the next five minutes to help somebody, but then the next four, four hours I go out and just. It's totally self serving. So if you cumulatively look at the 24 hour period or the actions of all the energy flowing through me and then coming back out, a net benefit to the other entities that I'm interacting with. Your family's the one that's consuming most of the energy you're outputting, right. Is it net positive or is it net consuming and parasitic? Because if it's the latter, you can try all day long to surround yourself with people that are going to tell you what you need to hear, but they're going to stop telling you what you need to hear. If you're parasitic, they'll be there in short duration, 10 minutes, one year, five years. Right. Why do marriages end? Marriages end because one of the parties was parasitic and consumed the energy of the other to the point where it wasn't a mutually beneficial exchange of energy. Right. And it might last 20 years, but eventually the net of that exchange between those two parties, one has enough, one's done, right?
- [56:33]
B
Yeah. This is a great framework for thinking about it. It's very germane to Bitcoin. We're all nodes, we're all taking energy, we're broadcasting energy. And this energetic absorption and broadcasting. I mean this sounds very much to me like a market too, where that's sort of what we're also doing with money, which is probably. It occurs to me that if we're on a hard money free market standard, it would be much more reflective of this actual reality. You're saying where you're taking an actual energy from the surrounding universe and broadcasting it to others through your intentions. Money would map very close to that in a hard money world. But you have this again, a parasite. I guess you could almost call the central bank an energy parasite in this way that's distorting the whole network dynamics among all of the nodes. So it's as if wherever reciprocity breaks down because you're engaging with others in mutual exchange. It's like you're just really trying to give and kind of operating on the premise that they're trying to give to, but not really. Like it's not like it's not conditional. You're not. You give then I Give. It's like I'm just going to give and assume you're going to give as well. But when other. When actors act contrary to that, then it just distorts the whole field of interaction.
- [58:07]
A
Yes.
- [58:12]
B
Crazy thought. That takes. Okay, we touched on this earlier, but courage, that very presupposition that I'm going to give and just have the faith that you're going to operate the same way and not take advantage of me. That takes courage, I think. And the author says this, he says courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage, one cannot practice any virtue consistently. So it's as if courage is the base layer of this whole modus operandi of intentionality.
- [58:59]
A
Because if somebody doesn't have the courage to stand up and say, hey, Robert, I think you did this thing wrong, and they don't have the courage to overcome that social dynamic that we were talking about earlier of why people don't say these things. They don't take that first step to try to improve the other person or improve themselves. If that courage isn't taken, nothing's ever going to get better. And so I think that's what the author's getting at with why that's so important.
- [59:34]
B
So to live intentionally, we have to have courage. How do we cultivate courage?
- [59:47]
A
Oh, man. I think a little of it goes back. It's like maybe a circular reference in that if I have a lot of respect for you and I want what's best for you, I am willing to be courageous in order to potentially make you better at the expense of the relationship and at my own expense of what would result of being courageous. So I think it a little bit goes back to your intentions of being a giver and being somebody who's actually trying to help the other person at maybe your own demise and your own expense.
- [60:38]
B
Interesting. So back to intention. But, yeah, a little bit, yeah.