The Hidden Wound That Is Destroying Your Most Important Relationships w/ Stefanos Sifandos

Summary

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Episode Summary:

Podcast: The "What is Money?" Show
Host: Robert Breedlove
Episode Title: The Hidden Wound That Is Destroying Your Most Important Relationships w/ Stefanos Sifandos
Release Date: April 10, 2026
Guest: Stefanos Sifandos – Relationship and High Performance Coach, Author of "Tuned In and Turned On"

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Overview

This episode delves deeply into the unseen wounds and psychological dynamics that underpin modern relationships, particularly how unresolved childhood trauma, societal shifts, and the pressures of contemporary life impact our ability to connect, thrive, and maintain intimacy. Host Robert Breedlove and guest Stefanos Sifandos unpack topics such as hookup culture, the evolution of masculinity and femininity, nervous system regulation, betrayal and abandonment, and what it means to cultivate truly rewarding relationships in an increasingly complex world. Stefanos shares his personal journey and professional wisdom gathered over 25 years working with thousands of clients, offering both practical tools and profound insights aimed at helping individuals break free from destructive patterns and find fulfillment in connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Foundations of Modern Relationship Challenges

• Relationship as Central to Existence
  • Stefanos emphasizes that "everything is relationships"—not only with people but with our past, present, future, and even ourselves.
    • "It's not a question of whether we're in a relationship. It's a question of what's the quality of the relationship that we're in." (02:01, Stefanos)
• Unresolved Trauma and the Nervous System
  • Early experiences, especially chaotic or abusive upbringings, deeply affect adult relational patterns.
  • Unresolved issues are reflected in our nervous systems and become challenges in intimacy, prompting compensatory behaviors like workaholism, achievement-chasing, or addiction.

2. Societal Shifts: Gender Roles, Money, and Confusion

• Impact of Feminism, Economics & Social Complexity
  • Both reflect on the rise of women in the workforce, changes in wealth dynamics, and perceived attacks on traditional masculinity/femininity.
  • Stefanos observes the confusion arising from shifting power dynamics, noting:
    • "It's causing a lot of confusion... women say, 'Where are all the good men?' and men are facing their own issues." (13:43, Stefanos)
• Technology and Dating
  • Dating apps and social media increase opportunities to wear masks, avoid vulnerability, and perpetuate cycles of avoidance and mistrust.
  • The illusion of endless options feeds a reluctance to commit and creates a feedback loop of dissatisfaction.

3. Hookup Culture and Intimacy

• NSA Culture & Dopamine Addiction
  • Hookup culture provides a perpetual "honeymoon phase" driven by dopamine, but leaves individuals unfulfilled:
    • "You're receiving peak pleasure experience, which most people are mistaking for true intimacy." (18:48, Stefanos)
• The Danger of Familiar Patterns
  • Many are drawn to what is familiar from childhood, even if it's dysfunctional, and unconsciously seek to redo the past for healing, often repeating pain instead.

4. The Roots of Personal Wounds: Betrayal and Abandonment

• Facing Inward: The "Come From"
  • Stefanos cautions that decisions based on fear, mistrust, or unresolved pain invariably lead to loss.
    • "If you’re making that choice from a place of fear, you're only losing." (17:17, Stefanos)
• Generational Trauma and Trauma Cycles
  • Trauma is multigenerational, and unresolved wounds (e.g., abandonment, betrayal) surface in adult relationships.
  • Healing requires deliberate grief work and sometimes professional support to address both the literal loss and the loss of what one never had.

5. Healing Tools and Practices

• Nervous System Regulation as Foundation
  • True change requires establishing neurological and psychological safety.
    • "You can’t elicit change in your life… without a platform of neurological and psychological safety." (25:50, Stefanos)
• Practical Regulation Techniques
  • Mindfulness, breathwork, journaling, nature walks, and somatic practices.
  • Physical touch with safe others is healing but requires overcoming conditioned avoidance.
• Importance of Male Community
  • Being witnessed, challenged, and supported by other men is vital for healthy vulnerability and growth.

6. Commitment, Monogamy, and Long-term Growth

• Serial Monogamy vs. Deep Partnership
  • Both monogamy and non-monogamy can be “natural”; what matters is self-awareness and the intention behind relational choices.
  • "Most people leave too early in relationships... tremendous growth can happen over decades.” (68:32, Stefanos)

7. Modern Pain Points for Men and Women

• Men:
  • Pressure to perform; insecurity; struggle to access sadness; addiction to achievement; lack of prioritizing health.
• Women:
  • Difficulty accessing their anger/voice; challenges with emotional safety and trust; the burden of hyper-independence.

8. Signal vs. Noise: Navigating Overload

• To mitigate the barrage of conflicting advice and stimuli, cultivate discernment through self-reflection, discipline around media consumption, and prioritizing personal values and growth.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Childhood Cycles:
  • “We teach what we need to learn the most.” (02:34, Stefanos)
• On Hookup Culture:
  • "You’re in a perpetual honeymoon phase almost. You can receive peak experience that you mistake for intimacy, but it never really scratches the itch... Because in commitment… there’s so much fear. It’s an abyss.” (18:48, Stefanos)
• On Trauma’s Roots:
  • “Abandonment is one of those things that we really only technically experience when we’re children, when we’re hopeless and helpless.” (43:35, Stefanos)
• On Men’s Shame:
  • “Shame is a killer, man. I've lived with it for so much of my life and it is, it is a killer, particularly for men... We will do everything to not show our shame, including killing ourselves.” (87:27, Stefanos)
• On the Value of Enough:
  • “You are enough as you are... Your intrinsic value resides in your breath. You’re alive, you’re here. That’s enough.” (82:23, Stefanos)
• Advice to Past Self:
  • "Don't do it from a place of not being enough and needing to prove yourself to the world because you don't.” (82:23, Stefanos)
• On Healing with Children:
  • “As parents, it’s our duty to work on ourselves to be more and more regulated for our children so they have a healthy role model to learn from... In doing so, we’re actually helping ourselves be better humans too.” (25:44, Stefanos)
• On Presence and Gratitude:
  • “Presence gives us so much access to our power... Gratitude, deep, genuine gratitude, promotes serotonin... it's powerful, man.” (99:22, Stefanos)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|-------------| | 02:01 | “Everything is relationships, man. It’s not a question of whether we’re in relationship…” | | 13:43 | Confusion in gender roles, "Where are all the good men?" | | 18:48 | Critique of hookup culture and dopamine-driven relationships | | 22:52 | Why women are attracted to emotionally unavailable ‘bad boys’ | | 25:44 | “Nothing can occur without a platform of neurological and psychological safety.” | | 35:54 | High performers and the challenge of self-care and guilt | | 42:02 | Discussion of safety, trust, and responsibility in marriage | | 43:35 | “Abandonment is one of those things that we really only technically experience when we’re children.” | | 46:35 | The hidden, unresolved mother wound and its adult impact | | 49:58 | The value of stillness: “When we slow down to the speed of wisdom…” | | 64:39 | Not vulnerability vomit—healthy male accountability communities | | 82:23 | Advice to 15-year-old self: “You are enough as you are.” | | 87:27 | Male shame and its consequences | | 99:22 | Power of gratitude for presence and well-being |

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Practical Takeaways

• Cultivate Awareness:
  Spend time in solitude and stillness to recognize your own patterns and wounds.
• Regulate Your Nervous System:
  Use simple practices—breathwork, mindfulness, nature, physical touch, journaling—to build safety and presence.
• Community Matters:
  Men, especially, benefit from brotherhood, accountability, and honest feedback outside their primary relationship.
• Be Intentional in Relationship:
  Explore your reasons (“come from”) for both seeking and avoiding intimacy; don’t make decisions from fear.
• Celebrate Wins:
  Acknowledge and celebrate small achievements—don’t just rush to the next thing.
• Be Present with Loved Ones:
  Practice gratitude, slow down, and savor mundane moments, especially with children.
• Navigate Information Overload:
  Discipline your media consumption; return to your values; seek self-discovery and resilience through challenge.
• Allow for Grief and Vulnerability:
  To heal familial or relationship wounds, sometimes you need to grieve both the loss and the absence of what didn’t exist.

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Resources & Further Engagement

• Stefanos Sifandos’ Book:
  • Tuned In and Turned On
  • tunedinandturnedonbook.com (with bonus materials)
• Follow Stefanos:
  • Instagram: @stefanossifandos
  • YouTube: Stephanos Sifandos
  • Website: stefanossifandos.com
  • Coaching: coachwithsteph.com

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Conclusion

This episode provides an honest, rich exploration of the internal and societal wounds impacting modern relationships. Stefanos Sifandos urges listeners to do the inner work—regulate their nervous systems, seek accountability, practice presence, and grieve losses—in order to break generational trauma cycles and create healthy, empowering connections. The practical wisdom shared serves not only as guidance for improving relationships, but as a roadmap for building a healthier, more fulfilled life.

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Transcript

[Stephanos Safandos]

Feminism itself is rooted in Marxism. I don't necessarily agree with Marxism. Personally, do I agree with the fundamental principles of having equitable access to resources for, you know, all human beings as a fundamental principle of just compassion or. Absolutely. Well, that wouldn't mean that only men have greater access to resources and women don't. And yes, that has also impacted modern dating, even the last 10 to 20 years. How men are generally perceived in the western world. We can look at wealth distribution, earnings, how that's shifted and how that impacts mateship and connection and sexuality and attraction and a whole slew of other issues or factors relating to intimacy and connection. You're receiving peak pleasure experience, which most people are mistaking for true intimacy. And they're satisfied in the moment, but then they need more of it because it's a massive dopamine. Here you're in a perpetual honeymoon phase almost. You can receive peak experience that you mistake for intimacy, but it never really scratches the itch. It just scratches the itch. But you're left for more. But you just go to what's familiar because it's non committal. Because in commitment there's so much, so many people, there's so much fear. It's an abyss. In the past, commitment has been proven, like maybe your parents divorced divorce, so commitment doesn't exist. Or you saw your parents suffer and suffer but still stay together. Like, I don't want that. And so hookup culture, NSA culture is so easy, but it's empty now. I'm not saying casual sex is empty or bad. However, what's the come from?

[Robert Breedlove]

Stefanos, welcome to the show.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, happy to be here, man. Thank you.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. So you're a relationship co coach, right?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, you could say that, yes. Playing that area.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. So can you tell us about your background and how to. How you became a relationship coach? And I'm curious if there was a moment when you realized you. You needed to change how you showed up in relationship with yourself or a partner.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, I'll take care of the first one and then we can maybe address the second question. For me, I think everything is relationships, man. It's not a question of whether we're in relationship. It's a question of what's the quality of the relationship that we're in, whether it's to our past to our present. You know, something intangible, tangible, a person, intimate intimacy, romance, our future, our vision. Relationships are at the cornerstone of our existence. And so I became very fascinated with the quality of intimate relating, particularly because of the background that I've had the upbringing, if you like, that I've had that was quite volatile and uncertain and violent and there was a great deal of abuse there as well. And the family dynamics were very chaotic and that was just very rupturing to my nervous system and to my mind as a kid growing up. And I, I just, I often wondered like there's got to be something that feels safer and better than this. And so naturally, you know, we as people will gravitate, you know, often what we need to, we teach what we need to learn the most. Right. So I heard Dr. John Demartini say this. Our greatest voice become our greatest values. So that was the sort of foundations of I'm not, I'm not only a relationship coach per se, I just, I heavily focus on relationships but essentially I'm a high performance coach or I really help people move from a disempowered place into a place in a state of empowerment. But what comes with that is a more resilient nervous system, a clearer mind and healthier relationships. So that's sort of the foundations of why I focus on relationships so, so vehemently.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I, I have a four year old daughter and a three month old son and I've realized over the last few years my nervous system is a little wrecked. I didn't notice that until just the last few years ago. I'm like, wait, why am I so triggered by my child here? This must be something that is out of alignment for me. And I think a lot of people deal with nervous system issues, disregulated nervous systems and I think they're unaware of it.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Very much so, man. And you know, you know, bless you, bless your family. I've got a nearly four year old daughter as well and often our children reflect back to us as parents what feels unresolved and unprocessed not only within our own physiology and our nervous systems, but also our psychology and our, the things that really matter to us. And they highlight, they shine spotlights and this is what relationships do, right? They shine spotlights on what feels unresolved and unprocessed and it becomes an opportunity to sort of close that trauma loop or just close that loop that feels fractured within our, within us. And when we do that, I mean we just live a better life, man. We live, we're more carefree, we experience more freedom, greater connection. The know we're able to do the things that we really love with greater efficacy. We, we make more money, we make more impact, we get more creative, we live A fuller life. But we struggle to do that when we're so. When our nervous systems are bound up and we're so hyper vigilant. And so, you know, relationships are an opportunity to explore the parts of ourselves that we've been running from. Because often at an early age we experience some intensity and we retract from the world and we make it mean, generally speaking, here people are unsafe. The world is unsafe. I've got to hide myself, I've got to wear mas masks. I can't be seen. It's too dangerous. And then we develop compensatory strategies. Some of those compensatory strategies are putting needles in our arms, you know, and becoming drug addicts or alcoholism or workaholism or accolades and achievement and high performance and gold medals and make more money and more cars and all of that. And there's nothing wrong with that stuff. But the come from very much matters because the come from will determine is it sustainable and healthy and is it really genuinely fulfilling or, or is it just feel empty and you just got to keep going and getting more and attaining more and accumulating more.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes, that, that makes absolute sense. You know, we live in a time too where the world is changing rapidly. And I'm curious your thoughts on relationships throughout human history and what you think has changed over the last 50, 70, 100 years. You know, we have the feminist and sexual revolution, the advent of birth control. And it seems like the way we

[Stephanos Safandos]

have,

[Robert Breedlove]

I don't know, pair bonded and, you know, selected partners has seemed to change immensely over the last handful of years, especially with tech and dating apps and whatnot. And so what do you see as the evolution in relationship throughout history and then in the most recent 100 years?

[Stephanos Safandos]

What a load of question. It's an awesome question. I actually don't think relationships and, and mating strategies and attraction dynamics have actually changed that much. I'd posit that they actually haven't at all the suit or the dress or the clothing. The exterior looks a little different, maybe the tools that we use a little different. But the fundamental principles of what we need and what we want from a relational perspective hasn't really changed. We're attracted to people that are resource. We're attracted to people that carry certain power centers. Whether it's they, they have the ability to accumulate a lot of resources or they're very attractive or they're very persuasive or whatever it may be. But essentially we're choosing not only from, you know, a higher place of consciousness, which is, you know, you could say over the last, based on what we know of history and the, the history of, of hominoids and human beings evolving, you could say we've, we've increased our capacity for consciousness and awareness through our prefrontal cortex dramatically over the last few hundred thousand years to 12 million years, say. But our nervous systems are still choosing partners and we're, you know, I guess if there is an evolution of that, there's more complexity in our culture, there's more complexity in our society because of our prefrontal cortex, because of the, maybe the advent of certain technologies, discovering psychotropics or psychedelic substances, eating meat, fire, etc. I'd also say the more complexity that's evolved in culture and cultural groups over hundreds of thousands of years to millions of years has also shaped the way we relate and the way we, we derive our needs to feel safe, to feel seen, to feel heard, like those fundamentals, to, to be appreciated, respected, accepted as a human, to be seen, to be heard, to be understood. They're, they're, they're fundamentals that have been with us for millennia upon millennia upon millennia. So I don't think that has changed too much, but what I do see has changed is because of that complexity that's developed not only in Western culture, but just all over the world. And because of the prefrontal cortex. This is sort of like the double edged sword, right? Is one of our coping strategies for dealing with difficulty. Because we're quite intelligent, cognitively intelligent, emotionally intelligent, is we suppress and we repress now as a result of that, I think that happened a lot less if we go back further in time, right, For a few different reasons. One, we were maybe too busy surviving. Two, there was less complexity, so there was more just nervous system, relational survival based in a healthy way, connection. Now there's more complexity, so we harbor a lot of pain and fear and these play out in more complex behaviors. And so we're not really attracting from a true version of ourselves. Even using dating apps, right? Like you're wearing masks, you're very selective. And your architecture, what you put out there as your profile, you're also hiding behind a screen, right? And so there's more opportunity to wear masks like you're going to if you have a wound around self worth and confidence. You can pretend to be someone that you're not. You can, you can manipulate, you can be that person you think that person wants you to be, but you just can't sustain it. So dating dynamics and attraction dynamics from that perspective, a little More contorted, I'd say. That's a. That's something that's changed, you know, of late. And so because we're harboring these unprocessed, repressed, you know, challenged set of traumas where we don't trust people, where we are unsure of ourselves, we bring that into the dating world. And so we're not really bringing ourselves our true selves. We're pretending to be people that we're not. And that's easy to do with technology. It's easy to do with a population that's increased dramatically. It's easy to do with mobility. We have this. This delusion that the grass is greener on the other side. Well, I'll just leave this relationship early. When there's conflict, especially if you've experienced, you know, conflict avoidance growing up or you have, you know, you've developed a pattern of avoidance as an example, it's easy to leave the relationship and go look elsewhere. Right. And so these are some of the challenges that we have. You know, you mentioned birth control, you mentioned feminism. These are very complex, complex situations. Like, you. You talk about feminism, and there's. There's multiple viewpoints on this. And I'll pause after this because, you know, let this be more of a discussion as opposed to me talking at you. But, you know, there's a schools of thought that feminism itself is rooted in Marxism, and. And Marxism is. Is complicated when it comes to a. A governing. A social governing system.

[Robert Breedlove]

Right.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I don't necessarily agree with Marxism personally or. Or socialism for that matter. Again, that's a whole. That's a big, big conversation. Do I be. Do I agree with the fundamental principles of having equitable access to resources for, you know, all human beings as a sort of. As a fundamental principle of just compassion or. Absolutely. You know, like that. That wouldn't pull away. That wouldn't mean that only men have greater access to resources and women don't. But we just. We're venturing into really complex, nuanced conversations when we bring that up. And yes, that has also impacted modern dating, Even the last 10 to 20 years, how men are generally perceived in the Western world. Well, we can look at. And I'll pause here after this. We can look at wealth distribution, earnings, how that's shifted, and how that impacts mateship and connection and sexuality and attraction and a whole slew of other issues or factors relating to intimacy and connection.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, that's a lot. You know, the show is the what Is Money?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Podcast.

[Robert Breedlove]

And so Robert has spent many years unpacking you know, the history of money, central banking and the negative effects of having centrally planned money in an inflationary currency supply. And what we see is, is over the last 50 so years, the tax base has, has increased and it now is including much more women. Women are being encouraged to join the workforce and really step more into their masculine. And then there's this attack on masculinity. And men are being, I don't know, encouraged culturally to be more feminine. And that, that homogenization, I think, is immensely damaging to that divine masculine dance that has been going on since the beginning of time. How do you see that affecting relationship today where you have women, you know, hypergamous. Women are hypergamous, you know, by nature. And if you have women that are graduating from college with degrees and what. And out whatnot, and they're oftentimes out earning most of the men in the dating marketplace, if you will, how do you think that's affecting relationships today?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Massively. It's causing a lot of confusion. So again, I'm not going to speak empirically. I'll speak anecdotally, though, from the many, many workshops I run on a regular basis. The 25 years I've been doing this, the hundreds of thousands of people I've been in contact with, men and women. It's causing a lot of confusion. When I say causing, let me just, let me just be clear. What's causing, I think, control mechanisms from hierarchical structures. Some nefarious, some just a natural byproduct of momentum from implementing a particular idea that grabs attention and mainstream thought and then progresses into something else. But it's causing confusion and disconnection. So now more than ever, it's really important that men and women come together. Now, how they come together, it is a subjective thing, meaning that those two people get to choose. But I'm constantly seeing and hearing women say, where are all the good men? Where are all the healthy men? Right. I'm hearing them say, where's a man that's quote unquote in his masculine. And there are so many women that have been hurt by men and have been hurt by the masculine, and they're unwilling and unable at that particular time to actually surrender and soften and trust, like really trust men. And so their questioning is very legitimate. And also the stuff they need to work through is legitimate. Now, equally, men are facing other issues on the opposite side of the spectrum. They're saying, I don't really trust women. I don't really trust I'm just going to be taken advantage of or I'm not going to be accepted and respected for who I am or I seem to not have enough, I'm not 6 foot or I'm not, I don't have enough money in the bank. I don't have whatever it may be. And so you're seeing this movement with magtow and MRM and they're retracting from the world. I disagree with that as well. That's not retraction. And running from our stuff and our fears and our pains and all the things that are happening that we don't really want but we're unwilling to budge on, that's not healthy either. When it comes to relating, all we're doing is creating distance. So now, now more than ever for me, I think it's important that we start coming together. But that's going to entail us facing, you know, some unresolved, unprocessed stuff and looking in the mirror. Because that's what relationships are. They're mirrors. They're mirrors for growth. Yes.

[Robert Breedlove]

So what, what stuff do you know? I mean this is a immense generalization but in the modern world what, what, what are people overlooking when they're getting into relationships and they're unaware of the issues that they're dealing with? I feel like to a certain degree there's almost a low grade state of psychosis. You talk about mgtow, a bunch of men are just basically checking out. You haven't broken incentives with divorce court. You know, in a lot of ways women are incentivized to, you know, leave the relationship if it's not working so well societally it's accepted. I would say that generally speaking, many years ago it was kind of frowned to leave your marriage. Now men get, they lose half their if a woman leaves them. Right. So you have, you have broken incentives and you know, a lot of apprehension around relationships. So if you were talking to a man and a man's like, hey man, I don't want to get married, I don't want to take the risk, it seems like it's not a good bet for me. How would you advise that individual? Where would you suggest they look inwardly to get right with themselves? How would they mitigate the risk and what would they be missing out on if they didn't commit to a long term relationship?

[Stephanos Safandos]

I would advise that individual, like any individual, the starting point is look at your come from, look at your reason, both conscious and unconscious as to why you're making the decision. Because the decision, the end point in and of itself isn't necessarily quite unquote wrong. But the come. If you're coming from fear, if you're coming from mistrust because you grew up in a broken family and you haven't resolved that, and your compensatory strategy is avoidance, then that's not going to do very well for you because there's going to be a part of you, because we're relational beings that's aching for connection and intimacy and to be seen. And so you've got to really look at that. You've got to, you've got to do your inner work around that. You've. You've got to feel what was unfelt. You've got to move from a disempowered state into an empowered state. There are many modalities, tools, processes, coaches that you work with, therapists, etc, that can help you and support you in that process. But if you're making that choice from a place of fear, you're only losing. That's, that's what I would, that's, that's the first place that I would look at is like, what's really your come from. Hey, if you want to not be in a relationship because that's choice you're making at this point in your life and you can genuinely say comes from a healthy place within power to you, man. But the cost of that is that you're losing out on something that you actually really want because you don't have a model, an effective, healthy model of what healthy relationship could look like.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, it seems there's less and less of that these days.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I would, I would, I would agree with you. Because. And part of that is because people are more reluctant to move into relationship because of their own fears, their own unprocessed, unresolved stuff that lives in their nervous systems and lives in their psyches.

[Robert Breedlove]

Do you think that's part of what's playing into the ever growing hookup culture epidemic?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, for sure. 100. Because. So the hookup culture is a, you know, the NSA culture, no strings attached culture, right? You're, you're receiving peak pleasure experience, which most people are mistaking for true intimacy. Right. And they're satisfied in the moment, but then they need more of it because it's a massive dopamine hit, right? It's a, it's a, it's a massive. It's a. You're in a perpetual honeymoon phase almost. Right. And so you can receive peak experience that you mistake for intimacy, but it never really scratches the itch or just, it just scratches the itch, but it doesn't really you, you, you're left for more, but you just go to what's familiar. Right. Because it's non committal. Right. And because in commitment there's so much for so many people, there's so much fear. It's an abyss. Right. Because in the past commitment has been proven. Like maybe your parents divorce, so commitment doesn't exist. Or you saw your parents suffer and suffer but still stay together. Like, I don't want that. And so hookup culture, NSA culture is so easy, but it's empty. Now I'm not saying casual sex is empty or bad. Not at all. However, what's the come from? You got to get really, you've got to get honest with yourself. Most people just don't want to be honest with themselves, man. They're scared to face the truth. Hence why they avoid relationships. Because again, relationships are tremendous mirrors. They shine a spotlight on the places that you don't want to see. The dark places within self.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. And what do you think the negatives are for men and women in hookup culture and what are the differences there? Because I think about birth control in all of human history, you know, a woman had to be much more careful about who she was sexually intimate with because she's going to bear a child. So the man being the one who spreads the seed and the woman being the individual who births the child did create a difference in how men and women went through lives with, you know, and pertains to how their being sexual. So do you see any differences in how hookup culture negatively affects men versus women?

[Stephanos Safandos]

I tend to look at the, the psychology of the individual and the circumstances of the individual. Yeah, it can, it can negatively affect. So in our culture, which is changing and shifting, I'd say noticeably, but maybe not extensively negatively, A, a woman is going to be seen as a slut or a use derogatory terms will be used against her like that if she's in hookup culture doing it often. Right. Again, that's probably a little outdated. That's starting to shift negatively for men. They're going to be seen as the untrustworthy guy, the guy that just wants to have sex. Like the guy that's not reliable or the guy that can't be there for you. Possibly not from his friends, from his male friends at least, or with a group of people that he's with, but from generally speaking, the people around him that know if he's that kind of person. Right. There are far more negatives that are projected upon females than there are upon Males in hookup culture or no strings attached culture or casual sex culture.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. And so why is it, why is it the, the who just bangs a bunch of babes? Why are women attracted to that male so much more than the nice guy who I don't know, in some ways is invisible to them? Because I, I feel like there's a feedback loop taking place that's worsening this issue with social media. The ability for females to market themselves and then status and social signaling plus the bifurcation of our society, the Cantelon effect as the, the wealth gets concent with in the, in less hands we have more Andrew Tates of the world. You can say, and it's ironic when you listen to and a woman say hey, you know, I want this, that and the other thing in a man. But then their behavior on average is the opposite.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. One of the reasons why people are attracted to that, you know, that bad boy, women are attracted to that bad boy is because it's what's familiar. Right. You attract from a place of familiarity, not necessarily what you truly desire. And so that unavailability that that man holds, the energetic unavailability that he holds essentially like unable to be in a committed relationship, unable to and unwilling to be emotionally available and clear and present, unwilling to be transparent and truthful, she experienced that from men in her life, likely her father. Again, not all women of course, but this is a. There's a substantial amount of females that have experienced this deep hurt from the masculine, from men. And so they pursue what's familiar. Now the underlying reasons behind that is because there's an opportunity for a redo. So you attract what's familiar, you're in that relationship or in that dynamic, that interaction forever, short or long, it is. And the opportunity, the redo opportunity is to move from a disempowered place, which most children are disempowered. We're pretty helpless and hopeless as children. Children, right. It's such a strange thing. Like most animals, mammals, etc, like 80, 90% of their brains develop in the womb. We're the exact opposite, you know, like 80, 90% of our brains develop out of the womb. And so we're highly relational, meaning that we're very dependent on other humans. And so if the first, the early childhood experiences that we have growing up, becoming human is flawed or tainted or traumatic or intense or corrupt and chaotic, etc, like that imprints upon us relationally what we're attracted to and what we think we deserve, what our self worth is, our self confidence and so you attract from a place of familiarity, you then you bring that into your life to have a redo, to move from disempowerment to empowerment. The problem is most people don't know about this, they don't know about that's what's happening. So they keep choosing over and over again what's familiar instead of choosing and going, oh, I'm actually going to say no to this, I'm not this, I want this, this person can't offer me that. See you later. And the moment people do that as an example, there's more to it than that. But the moment people make that empowering decision, they eventually start to choose differently. Maybe not immediately because it takes time to, you know, work those neural grooves to develop new patterns, relational patterns and habits. But eventually they choose differently so they become more self empowered. But if we're not aware, which most of us are not, because most of us are too busy surviving, so we don't spend much time in self awareness, we don't know that that's what's happening. We don't know there's a redo opportunity, we don't know there's an opportunity for growth. We don't know there's an opportunity to actually break some cycles of generational trauma that's been playing out in our lives over and over again.

[Robert Breedlove]

How do you help people realize that they're perpetuating a trauma cycle?

[Stephanos Safandos]

If you will, help them feel safe first. See, see, nothing can occur without a platform of neurological and psychological safety, right? So I'll explain a little bit. Like you can't, I know this may sound really stupid, but you can't run if you don't have legs or at least look alike legs at the very least, right? Like you, you're walking because you're walking on feet and legs and you've got your joints, everything's intact, right? Like you can't elicit change in your life, like really deep meaningful change without doing it from a place of regulation, safety. Your nervous system has to be in a parasympathetic. Your baseline can't be sympathetic. Your baseline has to be parasympathetic, meaning that you believe ultimately, unconsciously that the world's pretty safe. You know, that it's a dangerous place because it fucking is. But you also, you're not, you're not walking around hyper vigilant all the time because, because of the things that have happened to you. So everyone's had something happen to them. So we have to relearn how to be safe in Our nervous system. So that includes somatic practices, breath work on a regular basis, by the way, multiple times during the day. You're like, if you want to get better at understanding money, what do you do? You read, you study, you invest. You surround yourself with people that have done it. It's the same thing. You surround yourself with people that have regulated nervous systems. So as parents, it's our duty, I believe, to work on ourselves to be more and more regulated for our children so they have a healthy role model to learn from. Right? But in doing so, it. We're actually helping ourselves be better humans too. So surround yourself with people that can regulate their own nervous system. So your nervous system by attunement and osmosis, right, Is. Is literally absorbing that. And then once you. Once humans can create empowerment or safety in their own bodies, then we can move into addressing these issues psychosomatically, psychologically, spiritually, emotionally, relationally, et cetera. But you can't make any real change unless you can get your body to a place of regulation.

[Robert Breedlove]

That's, that's hard for some in the world today is, you know, just paying your bills can be a challenge for most people, for sure.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. 100 and I don't disagree what you're saying. And I don't know, like, look, man, I look at the. I've just recently had, and I'm gonna make this about me. I was just recently, as, as, as early as yesterday, I had a beautiful friend die from cancer. And a few months earlier, another friend died from the same cancer. Young men, families, children. I don't know why some happens, you know, and these men are creative men. They got a lot to give in the world. I don't know why stuff happens. It just happens, right? And if we spend too much time trying to figure that out, we lose. That's. That's all an egoic distraction to. To lose sight of actually making change in the now. So not everything's going to be accessible to everyone. Not everyone's going to be a billionaire. Not everyone's going to be Elon Musk. Not everyone's going to be a millionaire. Not everyone's going to have a clear childhood. In fact, most people don't know. Everyone's going to be able to read a stack of books or everyone's going to be able to visit Hawaii. That's sort of okay. It's going to be okay. It's just the way it is. So we're talking to people that are at a point in their life where they can make some change. If you know, I'm. Look, are we talking to the people that are homeless and destitute right now? And I, and I feel so deeply for those individuals that don't have that. I don't think so. I don't think they're listening to this podcast. But we are speaking to the people. And I don't mean that in a malicious or nasty way, but we are speaking to people that, you know what can probably spend 20 minutes going for a walk a night or putting their feet in the grass or having a bath or just sitting and breathing slowly. Five seconds in, five seconds out, you know, for two minutes, ten times a day. We're speaking to people that have access to that. Like if bills are getting in the way of that, that's on you. Like if you can't make 20 minutes a day to breathe in two minute increments, that's on you. And if you need support, you deserve to get that too. Because sometimes that is hard for people. And I totally respect that by the way. And it's, we have to empower each other. If I'm sitting here saying, ah, you know, well, you've got bills to pay and you know, you've got other shit going on and it's hard for you to breathe, like I'm just disempowering you, I believe that you can start with something even if it's one minute of deliberate breath a day, even if it's getting a book and reading. If all you can Afford is a $15 book, well go, go to the op shop or go to a secondhand bookstore and buy a book that is really revealing for three bucks. Like if that's all you can afford, no problem. Read five pages a day. If that's all you can commit to because you're working three jobs, I could totally get that. I've been there, man. I've been in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of credit card debt. I've been, I would have been homeless if I wasn't able to live in my grandparents home. I was jobless, I was pointless, I was suicidal. Like I've been in a lot of these places, not everywhere. And I'm not trying to compare trauma here either by the way. We have to, we have to take responsibility for ourselves and make movement towards something. So the reason why regulated moving into a regulated nervous system is difficult for people, it's not because they don't have time, it's because it's unfamiliar, therefore it's scary. And because it feels so out of reach, because we Feel we don't deserve it. It's those two things. Largely unfamiliarity and non deservedness. A perception of self low self worth. It's not because we don't have time. So when you start to attack those two areas, your priorities shift and change. And when you have a more open nervous system, man, and a clearer psychology, your ability to get creative, to make more money, it happens pretty quick.

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[Robert Breedlove]

yeah. Yes, man. For me, I've, I have. I spent most of my adult life in a, I mean my whole life in a state of survival. And in a lot of ways I don't really even know what it looks like to, or feels like to thrive. It's like a, it's been a weird thing. There's been several times over the last couple of years where it's like, why am I reverting back into this way of being where like I basically leverage fear or anxiety to get things done. I'm coming at it from the wrong place. And it's been a challenge for me to like reset my nervous system and get out of that fight or flight and that survival into a place of thriving. And so for you, what I'm hearing you say is, is that nervous system regulation is basically foundational.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Correct.

[Robert Breedlove]

And, and through breath, work, walking, reading, what are there some, what are some practical practices that people can.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, mindfulness practices. So, so for example, let's just say you're sitting in your home and look, man, I get it. Like when you got kids, sometimes you don't have much space and the only space you get is after they go to sleep at night or when you're not in the house, right. Because you're responsible for them. So I get it. So maybe in the evening before you go to sleep, you may just, wherever you are, you may be in your living room, you just slow down, sit down, lengthen your spine, maybe you close your eyes down for a moment, you breathe really slow, longer exhales just to engage your parasympathetic nervous system response. You open your eyes and you start labeling and characterizing objects in your room. Right? So what you're doing is, that's a mindfulness practice, it's a presence promoting practice. You're coming into the present moment, right. Journaling can be really helpful as well, like just expressing your thoughts or into a voice recorder or something. That's another problem that doesn't necessarily help regulate your nervous system, although it can because it can brain. You can brain dump and you can feel less anxiety and restlessness and anxiousness in your body. Right. And that can be very helpful. Receiving massage like body work is really important as well. Even it's self administering that. So doing some yin yoga or stretching before you go to sleep at night, right. With, with long slow diaphragmatic breathing, laying down, doing crocodile breaths. I mean there's a thousand and one breath techniques that you can do that can help regulate your nervous system. Right. Being in physical contact with people that are actually safe that you care about, like your partner or your children. And let me be very clear, I'm not asking you to be codependent. Not asking you to make sure that you know you can only be okay when they're okay. I'm just talking about genuine human touch is really, really beautiful. Some people reject that though, because it's so unfamiliar and it doesn't feel safe. They can't trust that it will last. Once we get through that phase. Human touch is a really important thing. Go be in nature. Like as a man, as. Are you married?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yep.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. Okay. So as a husband and as a father, you need to make time for yourself. I'm not talking about working and, and, and providing resources and protecting. Like you've got to make some time for yourself. So even if it's once a month,

[Robert Breedlove]

you know, for me that's, that's very difficult. Well, I don't know what it is. I've kind. I don't know if it's, I feel selfish or if it's a level of codependence where like I derive value for, for performing to take care of My loved ones. But it is a real challenge.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. And that's not common. So not to minimize your experience, but it's not uncommon, what you're saying, like, I feel guilty, can't do it. I've got to be making money, I've got to be providing. I don't believe I deserve that, to be doing that. Like, that's all. That all lives within you. So that's beautiful information, man.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, I putz around borderline. Just kind of stressing out a little bit. Just going in circles in my head all day long. Even my wife's like, dude, could you just, just go meditate for 10 minutes, please?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Well, you may not need. That's, that's a fair thing to say, but you may not need meditation, per se. But here's what I say to people like you. Let me, let me define what I mean by people like you. You're a high performer. You value your family. Clearly you've mentioned them a few times. They're at least some level important to you. You know, the nature of your podcast, the people that I understand you spend some time with, not knowing you very well. Like, you value creation in the world. You clearly value success. You. You want to create more success in your life for yourself, for your loved ones. You're a high performer, high achiever, probably a perfectionist to some degree. Right. Like, yeah, so. So what I say to people like you and people like myself is get the out in nature. Go for, if you can, two hours a week. Leave your phone at home. Go. You're in. You're in. You have to tell me where you are. Maybe you don't you want to keep

[Robert Breedlove]

that private in Miami? I just moved to Miami a year and a half.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Great. Go for a two hour walk on the beach. Just, just sit at the beach. No phones, no journaling, no reading, nothing. Just listen to the waves. Go, Go lay down, right? Try and find a remote place in somewhere where there's not too many people chattering and cheering and just lay down close to the waves. Just hear the waves coming on the ocean for like an hour. That's probably going to be so difficult for you to do, just to lay there. You're not asking you to meditate. Just close your eyes and listen. Or keep your eyes open. Look at the sky and listen.

[Robert Breedlove]

That's a really good piece of advice. I spent 16 years in Humboldt County. I was a professional cannabis farmer. So I spent many years just listening to podcasts and audiobooks, working in the garden by myself.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

In the redwood forest. I would, you know, spend a lot of time in nature. And the last year I've been in, in the concrete jungle and so I haven't had much of, of that. And I do, I find, I derive, I derive most of my sense of safety from my relationship. And I would guess that you would say that that's actually maybe a good first step. But the reality is, is that that sense of safety needs to be derived from oneself.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. Otherwise it's too codependent and you're putting a lot of unconscious pressure on the relationship. And so, man, again, like, I'm happy to unpack. This is what I, this is what I, this is what I do on a daily basis. I've been doing this for 25 years. You know, I work with high performers and I work with individuals. But if you want to unpack this right now, no pressure at all, we can.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, yeah, I got. No, I'm an open book.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I love it.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So. So let's just, let's just ask some questions and maybe, maybe provide a little more insight. Right. And some. Because the more awareness we have, particularly as men, the more we understand ourselves, the more able we're will with, the more able and willing we're. We can make change in our lives. Right. We can actually make different choices. So. So I heard you say you derive a lot of safety in your relationship with your wife, I'm assuming, correct?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Okay. How long you been married for?

[Robert Breedlove]

Five years.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Okay. How long have you been together for?

[Robert Breedlove]

Six years, Five and a. Five and a half.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Okay. And you've got two kids?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yep.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. Okay. And so is this relationship similar to any previous relationships or is it much, much, much quite different?

[Robert Breedlove]

I would say it's quite different. So my parents divorced when I was five years old. Brutal custody battle. My mother, self proclaimed feminist, got a degree in sociology and women's studies and she taught women's studies and gender studies. She ended up. She was very depressed. She took pharmaceuticals for many, many years and ended up committing suicide when I was 20 years old. So I had a mother wound and I found that I was attracting a very similar flavor of relationship for effectively 15 years of my life. Read a bunch of books, you know, did a lot of deep inner work, and then met my wife, who was very different than a lot of my past relationships. So, yeah, I, I feel like I broke a cycle, but it was, it was kind of a painful process.

[Stephanos Safandos]

It sounds like you have, do you experience just within yourself, do you experience anxiousness in your relationship with your wife?

[Robert Breedlove]

No, I actually Feel very confident and comfortable in. In my relationship with my wife. I don't find that. I'm concerned she's going to betray me. I think part of that is, is I have almost let go of most of my fears in life, but I do have this underlying, like, I don't know, nervous system that I find is tense. And there's been a few moments over the last year and a half where I've had these epiphany moments where I realized, like, like, whoa, I'm like, kind of tense. As an example, maybe this is too much information, but I did LSD for the first time a year ago and I was like, why am I so tight? I'm tight. It made me realize that I have an overactive nervous system.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So when are you. When you experience this tightness outside the lsd, when you experience this tightness, when do you usually experience it? Under what circumstances?

[Robert Breedlove]

Now, at this point, it would be, I don't know, a moment like before we started recording. Oh, pressure's going up. I gotta perform. I'm about to do this podcast. We got a lot of subscribers. I don't know, a few thousand, ten thousand people are going to watch me. Aside from that, I don't notice it very much. Well, okay, so there's another time when my kid is going bonkers.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Finally.

[Robert Breedlove]

Oh, my gosh.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. You're four year old.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. And so with. With your wife, you. You said you feel safe in the relationship.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yep.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So what do you just. Can you just unpack that a little bit? Like, what do you mean by that?

[Robert Breedlove]

I feel like I can trust her and I can trust myself in my ability to be there for her and perform as a man, which minimizes the risk that I'm betrayed. So in some ways I'm taking radical responsibility. Like I'm the man in the relationship. The burden to perform is on me. And if things unfold in a unfavorable way, it would be due to me failing to perform in some capacity.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So it's interesting that you've mentioned the word betrayed twice. I have not alluded to it in any capacity.

[Robert Breedlove]

Well, I think, speaking in terms of relationships, that. I think that if. Yeah, that. Isn't that the biggest concern in a relationship, that you. That you're betrayed?

[Stephanos Safandos]

No. For some, yes. Not for everyone. For some. For some, absolutely. So where did you first. This is. Stay on. This is. Pull this thread just for a little bit. Just for. For fun. Right? See, this is fun. Where. Where do you feel you first experienced betrayal?

[Robert Breedlove]

I don't Know, but I can, I can tell you I've. I felt abandoned when my mother passed away, you know, at a young age. I was 20 years old at the time. You know, I was a fully functioning young adult. But I do definitely remember and I even said this at times. Like, you know, I was disappointed that I didn't have my mother anymore. I felt like I could have still used her. I could have still benefited from her presence in my life.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, it's, it's interesting that you haven't mentioned your dad either. Right. But let's stay here for a second. This is interesting. So abandonment, Abandonment is one of those things that, that we really only technically experience when we're children, when we're hopeless and helpless. So when I hear any, any adult say I felt a ban. I experienced or felt abandoned as an adult, I'm understanding that there's an immediate regression. Like there's a, there's a time, a nervous system, psychological time travel that takes place. So my guess is that an abandonment and betrayal go hand in hand too, brother, so often. So if your parents had a gnarly divorce, Right. There was a strong custody battle. What's that?

[Robert Breedlove]

A brutal divorce. Yeah. My mother remarried to a psychiatrist who made really good money and just absolutely demolished my father in divorce court for many, many years, who took it like a g. Like, I have a lot of respect for my, my father and I learned a lot about how to be a strong man through him. He was in, in just an absolutely immovable force who was there for his children no matter what the circumstances were.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. And, and your mom, but you in the process. Right. I'm going to take a couple of wild guesses here. If your mom is fighting really hard in divorce court and she's a career woman herself, she have a lot of time for you?

[Robert Breedlove]

No, not very much from a young age too. She, she got pretty zombied out on pharmaceuticals.

[Stephanos Safandos]

On. That's my next point. Right. So she was very, very not present to you as a mother. That's why as a 20 year old, you're like, oh, I could have used her more. But you never really had her. It was the fantasy of wanting more of, of, of that mother. But the, the, the painful thing here, and this is interesting, is that your original perception, relationship, connection, interaction, experience of the feminine was one that was betraying, abandoning, checked out, didn't prioritize you, you know, fought for you, fought for her children. But did she? If she really just zombied out on pharmaceuticals in her career? No. And this isn't Me blaming her. Let me just be very clear. I'm not criticizing your mother in any capacity. She carried her own.

[Robert Breedlove]

And I don't feel that by any means, I'm enjoying this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

And she brought them in. And so now as an adult. Right. You're. If you're. Your, Your core wound with the feminine isn't resolved, which it's not, because I hear that. Well, I don't know completely what you've done when you say deep inner work. But deep inner work is more than just therapeutic and cognitive work. It is also somatic expression, somatic movement. It's moving from disempowerment to empowerment. But in the body, in the nervous system, unless you've been there extensively, you're still holding on to these, these pain points at a neurological somatic level, and you bring them into the relationship.

[Robert Breedlove]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So you. There is probably an underlying fear, like, like you even said, like, oh, isn't that the biggest thing that most people just, you know, fear, betrayal? No, no, no. I, I personally don't fear that in my relationship with my wife. That's not, that's not mine. That's not her thing with me. And, and let me tell you something about, just briefly, about my history. I was a serial cheater for so many, the vast majority of my relationships, prostitutes, all of that. That's another story for another time. And my wife knew that well before we even physically met. I was very honest with it. Not a pain point for her that I'm going to betray her and do that. So what I'm saying to you is sort of tie bow in this for a moment. Is that that guilt that you may have in going to spend an hour for yourself sitting in the ocean that could genuinely be tethered to if I don't perform? Because again, like, my guess is that you probably did really well during school, or you tried your best academically, athletically, whatever it may be, to prove your worth and your value, and it fell on deaf ears because your mother was just shut off to the world because of her own pain and the way she was numbing. And so part of you now as an adult's, like, if I don't perform, will my wife betray me? Even though you don't have that fear? Consciously. But will she leave me or will. Will I not. Will I not get what I need even Right. Even though you trouble.

[Robert Breedlove]

Nailed it. Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

So this is why for you, it's not just, oh, let me get an hour or two hours a week in, in some stillness and Some peace. This is linked to something deep within your childhood. And remember, we're just little kids walking around in big bodies. Little kids walking around in big bodies, man. Let me tell you a quick story. Go and respond to that, then I'll tell you a quick story.

[Robert Breedlove]

No, go right ahead. Well, you, you nailed it. That's that. I, I totally agree with what you're saying. And it's well put. It's interesting to think about it from that perspective. I guess if I were to sit there and really dig deep in the moment, I would, I would have a thought that parallels what you just said. But you, you very effectively pulled that out for sure.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. I mean, look what we did. Yeah, that's because you're open, bro. Like so. You're open. You're an open man. Like you're. And I really admire that and honor you. And we just met. I really honor that with you because not many people are like that. But remember, awareness is only one step.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes, yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

You got to do something with that now in your own time too. You don't have to rush it. But I just really honor you for, for going there and it's not easy. Right. And again, look what we did in a few minutes, like what you did in a few minutes. Imagine what you can do with even more intentional, deliberate focus on this. But let me, let me share a really quick story with you. God's contemplating where to put the secrets of the universe. Right? Secrets of the cosmos. And I'm going to really fast track this story. After a long time thinking, God says, I'm going to place these secrets where man fears to go the most, in stillness, silence and solitude. And so there's something to be said. Man for men, quietening down the mind and slowing down the body, there is something to be. There's an access that we have as human beings. When we slow down to the speed of wisdom, something really profound happens.

[Robert Breedlove]

But we know difficult for men to do that. Is it the burden to perform? You know, because I kind of think about the difference between men and women. There's a. You know, we're polar opposites in so many ways. And, and I feel like men have the burden to perform. They need to earn their value societally. They need to, they need. You're 18 years old, you get into the sexual marketplaces. 20, 25 year old, you haven't done. You're not worth. You got to earn your, your place in the world. Women generally, I would say this is a generalization, have inherent value. And the challenge for a Woman is to not damage their value, I suppose you could say so. Is that. That burden to perform as a man that makes it so difficult for us to sit in silence and sit with ourselves?

[Stephanos Safandos]

That's. I'm 100 sure that is part of it. I wouldn't say that's the only. The only thing that. That influences being with ourselves. I would think societal expectations, which again is around performance. I would. I would also say that it's. We're just very unaccustomed to it. And. And the other part to it is as well, so it's unfamiliar, so we avoid it.

[Robert Breedlove]

Right.

[Stephanos Safandos]

The other part is that most humans aren't emotionally attuned to themselves, let alone men even. It's even more difficult for men because of the. The stigma that's associated with the emotional self. And so when you can't face or be with. And you don't know how to be with the emotional part, that is the human part of you, that is the emotional being. It's one of many parts we will. We will avoid like the plague. Stillness and silence and solitude, because it brings that up. Right. I. I personally, you know, was. It wasn't that long ago two, was it? I'm pretty due for another one, but I went and spent seven. Seven nights in the dark. Pitch black. Just in a small room under.

[Robert Breedlove]

No clock.

[Stephanos Safandos]

No.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Phone. No clock. No, not pitch black like you. You'll never. You'll never pitch black. Like, I'm just gonna. Like, there's no. I can't wait. Zero light coming in. Yeah. And so that, I mean, that's one of one experience of many where I've chosen to put myself in those places to. To be with myself. Right. And to be with the parts that show and present themselves. When I'm in situations like that, like, I've got no choice but to eventually be still

[Robert Breedlove]

interesting. What. And what came up for you in that Seven Days of Darkness was very interesting, man.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I found it quite easy. But then something very interesting happened because, you know, like any medicine or any. Any. Anything that's. Any experience that's here to teach us has its way with us eventually. Right? If it want, you know, if. If we allowed and it wants to. Whether you. You're taking ayahuasca or whether you're in a darkness retreat or a meditation retreat or, you know, you're in the. You're in the throes of relational conflict and you're attempting to navigate that in the most. In the most. The best way you can. On the last day, I Got terribly ill. Terribly ill, man. Like vomiting and. And diarrhea and. And in the dark, it was.

[Robert Breedlove]

And you didn't know what time it was. You didn't know how much longer you had. No wild.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I knew I was close, but. Yeah, I knew I was close, but I didn't know exactly what time it was. So it was just horrible. It was the. It was. Honestly, man, the worst, most painful food poisoning, because I was eating a little bit when I was there. Food poisoning or bug or virus, whatever it was. It was the. And I've had some bad ones in my life, man. It was the most painful experience. Like, I was. I said to the guy where I was, I thought, man, I think I need to. I think I need to go to the hospital now. I didn't end up going, but what that experience did was break me down. And I got on the phone with my wife, and I just. Man, I saw her in a way that I'd never seen her before in terms of the trust that I actually had for. For her, but I'd lost along the way. We're going through a rough patch then. You know, this was. Our daughter was like, a couple of years old or a year and a half old. It was just. It was tough after she was born for so many different reasons, and I just broke down emotionally, man. So I needed. I needed not to be in the. I needed to be in that. But I needed that experience to break me. And I just. I just. Something shifted in me in that moment, right? And I was able to access a part of me that had been so shut down, and it was because ultimately, I made the decision to be in stillness, silence, and solitude. And now that's a more extreme. Maybe it's not extreme. It's more intense version. But again, like, even on a daily basis, spend five minutes, three minutes before you go to sleep at night in one, in a room where no one is, and just sit in the center of the room or lay in the center of the room and just breathe slowly. That's stillness and silence and solitude. Nothing wrong with that.

[Robert Breedlove]

Wow. And so do you think you had, like, an emotional detox almost, that then caused you to detox physically?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah, I think so, man. Yeah. Like I said, you know, medicine has its way with you, right? Like, life has its way with you when it wants to. When you put yourself, you got to put yourself in those situations again, I'm not saying go disappear your family guy, you've got businesses, whatever. Go disappear into the Himalayan mountains for 60 days or seven years, you don't need to do that. But, but where are you nurturing this part of you that this is what I'm saying. Like I asked you earlier, like, is there maybe I'll reframe the question. I'll ask you now. Is there an underlying. When you really look at your life, is there an underlying anxiousness? And I don't want to, I don't want to seed anything here or, you know, try and point towards something that isn't there, but my sense is that there's an underlying anxiousness even in that unconscious sense of betrayal. Or even the stuff that happened with Mum. Like, have you really grieved your mum dying? Because here's the thing. So I want you to answer that. Go ahead.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like I have. But as far as the underlying anxiousness, unless there's something that I'm unconscious of, which could be entirely possible, I think I grapple with the same challenges the average individual does. I don't want to be stolen from, lied to, poisoned gas lit by the government. You know, all. We have a whole slew of challenges that we deal with in, in the world today. Yeah, of course now, compared to what we dealt with in the past, I think it's a new flavor of, of challenge. And I don't think that life has ever been free of challenge, but I think it's just the common. As far as the stuff I'm consciously aware of have just the average, average challenges that individuals have to grab.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I would, I would bring it more to you and make it more personal for you. Right. And when I say, have you grieved your mum, have you also grieved the mother that you never had?

[Robert Breedlove]

No, I don't think so.

[Stephanos Safandos]

And that's the grief because there's two deaths of the parent and the parents. So important is because remember we're hopeless and helpless when we come out of that womb. Like when we're in the world, man, unless we're looked after by other humans, we die within days, but within hours.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, yeah. It's a trip for me looking at my three month old son. It's my second child, but I'm looking at this little thing like, you were so vulnerable, but he's just so pure and he doesn't seem, he's not scared. It's like. And my, I think to myself, like, how do I make sure I don't this kid up. The pressure is enormous, right?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, the pressure. You can't. So you, you will your kid up in the ways that you it up what you get because you're human. Right. We've got to embrace that. I'm not making an excuse for poor behavior, but we're human.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

What I am saying is, though, like, you get to choose how deeply and how intensely you that kid up. And so that's on you to do more. More inner work. That's on us as, you know, parents, whatever. To do more inner work and be more present to the needs of that little one.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yes. Did you have another thread you wanted to pull on there? Because I do have another subject I want to ask you about.

[Stephanos Safandos]

No, I would, I would. No, because, you know, too much, too soon, too fast is trauma, essentially. Right. And so we don't heal in the same way. I think, I think just the exploration there and the allowance that you've given me and us and this, you know, dynamic, this interaction now is beautiful. And I think, I think there's a lot for you to, to be with and sit with just in that short conversation.

[Robert Breedlove]

And then to recap. So you're suggesting to take some time for myself, sit with myself, go to the beach, sit in a dark room at the end of the day, 5, 10 minutes, and then take some sort of conscious action at grieving the loss of my mother and the loss of the mother that I didn't have.

[Stephanos Safandos]

And you may need some support with that because, you know, relational wounds often need a relational setting to heal. And again, like that, that can actually happen just through natural osmosis and through the relationship that you have with your wife. You know, again, if you allow it to, like I would maybe be, if I was you, I would be looking at the places where you do hold back in your relationship with your wife, where you retract, where you're not completely truthful. I'm not talking about being malicious or where you're being deceitful or anything like that, but where you're not in your vulnerability or your openness or your truth about, like, what you're really experiencing. Right.

[Robert Breedlove]

And again, I've become callous and cold over the last 20 years of my life. Somewhat. Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

I mean, I found it. You know what I think about my early dating days? I. I was much more romantically minded or I would express my. My romantic ways more so than I do. I think I've kind of. Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Become a little jaded, no doubt. And again, like, I'm not saying vomit vulnerability on your wife. I'm not saying, you know, be a quote unquote beta or anything like that, or be passive or you know. Yes sir. How many bags full search. I'm not talking about that. Like be in relationship, being healthy relationship, move towards that. But really look at the places where you hold back and retract, right? And you just, you name someone then like you're jaded. And so how does that impact how she may be feeling and how she shows up and how you guys interact together? This is the low level anxiousness I'm speaking about. Like you're wearing masks and you're not alone, man. I do it too. We all do it. Like you're wearing masks in the relationship. Like you know that at some level in your organism, you know you're wearing masks, that's by default going to cause some level of anxiety or stress or tension or panic or I've got to do this in order to make that happen or just hyper vigilance. So the first place to start is just be truthful with yourself. You have to do it right now, but just really sit with yourself and be truthful. What I'm saying is spending time with yourself is an access point to being greater truth. And as we know the truth, the truth shall set us free.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

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[Robert Breedlove]

yeah, and my wife and I, we have a very happy, healthy relationship and we're good at communicating and we talk about these things. One of the issues that, that we deal with to varying degrees at times is, is I could be a little cold and distant and then that causes her to feel less safe and Then a little distance and it creates this little feedback loop and we have to like break that cycle every once in a while where I got to like drop in and remind her, you know, all the things she's safe, I'm pumped, I'm happy about the relationship, etc, and then that kind of brings us back together. Is that a common thing in relationships where you create these unconscious kind of feedback loops that, that push people away?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, very common. Right. And so sometimes we, we push people away to test them, to test their love for us. And so again, I don't know her background, I don't know her upbringing and her, her wounds per se, but if there's a, you know, strong wound or a pain point, mistrust around men, you know, an unavailable father potentially. And it's not all related to childhood, of course, but, you know, if, if there's, hey, intimacy isn't safe and intimacy can't be trusted. Sometimes we will test. And the feminine, by sort of default, the energetics of the feminine loves to test intimacy in relationship. Like men love to challenge, women love to test. And so you can get caught in those dynamics. Right. Like for you as well, it's like, well, let me, let me. Again, in unconscious ways, let me see all the ways I test my wife or challenge my wife and push her away and let me see if she'll come back. And let me see if we can come back because Mum and dad didn't come back, because Mum never came back to me. In fact, Mum was never there. Let me see if my wife will be there for me. So that's what happens when we have those unresolved, unprocessed wounds. Right. Like they play out in adult intimate relationships.

[Robert Breedlove]

Wow. Yes. And so how, how do you suggest men? I mean, because there's so much dialogue these days about, you know, how to be a strong masculine man. You know, there's women trying to teach other women how to be, you know, in their feminine. How do you suggest that men be open and vulnerable and share their feelings without giving their female counterpart the proverbial ick?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, so you need it, you know. Yeah, that's great. That's what I said before. I don't, don't be in vulnerability vomit.

[Robert Breedlove]

That's just vulnerability vomit.

[Stephanos Safandos]

It's, it's not, it's not, it's not healthy whether you're a man or a woman. It's not healthy. It's. I don't use the word toxic, but it's just, it's just unhealthy. Right here I'm going to give you one thing to do. It's just literally one thing. And it's really hard for most men, but it's, it's really important is be surrounded by other men that hold you accountable, that challenge you and that support you. Let those other men witness you in your stuff. Let them give you feedback into your world. Let them maybe sometimes even criticize it, criticize you constructively. Not judge you and meet you with, with, with, with ridicule and rejection, but to meet you with compassion and non judgment, but also firmness. Like, hey man, show up better. But you've got to learn to be truthful with those men. You've got to tell them, hey, hey guys, I told you I wouldn't look at porn, but I'm looking at porn again. Hey guys, I told you I wouldn't shout at my wife, but I shouted at her again. Like, you got to put yourself in the fire. Surround yourself by other healthy men that keep you accountable.

[Robert Breedlove]

I like that. Yeah. Wow. Oh man, we could spend. I don't want to make this a, a session about specifically me, but you know, you're, remember, you're representative. Killing it, man.

[Stephanos Safandos]

You're representative of, of other men too. You're not alone in this.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. I'm curious what your thoughts are on monogamy or do you think humans are naturally monogamous? Because in the society that we live in today, it seems like we're serial monogamous. Where we go from monogamous relationship to monogamous relationship. How do you think that, you know, compares to how we've been historically? And what's the value in long term pair bonding that you think the average individual in this hookup culture today is overlooking?

[Stephanos Safandos]

This is a really, really big question. So I think both monogamy and non monogamy are quote unquote natural. I think when pair bonding and when attraction dynamics were really formed early on, our physical environment was very different. It was more volatile, more survival based. We generally speaking, live in the safest, most abundant times. And so, but again, like we still live from our nervous systems, right? So I think both are quote unquote natural, so to speak. Do I think monogamy is superior to non monogamy? Maybe. Let's park that aside for a second. Not necessarily. Maybe there are a lot of factors that impact that. But let's look at the value of healthy monogamy. And again, like people have different definitions of that. Like there's this gray area of monogamish. There's, there's potential value that non monogamy brings as well. But when, when we look at the value of being with someone and choosing each other and choosing each other on a, you know, a day to day basis, or choosing each other deliberately, moment to moment, and not having an escape route and choosing to be in healthy relationship, and there's obviously there are factors that impact the definition of that. What happens is that we don't run away from ourselves when we don't run away from our partnership. That's not to say that when you get into partnership, you have to stay forever and together because some partnerships are just not meant to last. But, but I will say that most people leave too early in relationship and it's because they don't know how to repair, they don't know how to do conflict. They don't know themselves, they don't know what's actually happening. They're projecting, they're blaming, they're codependent, they're looking at the other person to change for them to feel better. And you don't spend enough time in that relationship. And over years and decades, in fact, especially if you're deliberate and intentional, there's a tremendous growth that can happen. Now that's not to say that there can't be tremendous growth in non monogamy. Absolutely there is. It's very confronting. It helps you deal with insecurity and jealousy. And like there's, there's arguments that can be made for both. Right. And there's also, there's positions and arguments that can be made for monogamy is just as natural and non as non monogamy and vice versa. Right. I think it's more about personal preference. I'm going to come back to again, like what you come from. Are you in a monogamous relationship because you're scared to be alone? You shouldn't, you shouldn't be doing it for that reason. I don't want to. Should you? I don't want to judge you, but that's not the healthiest way to do it.

[Robert Breedlove]

It.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Are you in non monogamy because you're fearful of commitment and actually being seen and probably you're choosing non monogamy for the quote, unquote, wrong reasons. I'm giving very simple examples, but they're also very applicable examples. Right. It's far more complex than that. But overall, in a condensed few minutes, that's my sort of perspective on relational dynamics.

[Robert Breedlove]

You know, what comes to mind as you're sharing that is I, I've, I'm sure you've seen this, There's a post going viral has on the last couple of years of Pierce Brosnan and his wife, a photo of them from 30 years ago. He's James Bond. He could have dated any chick in the whole planet. He's married to this woman. She's hot and young. There's a photo of him again from a couple years ago. She's 55 years old or whatever. He's still with this woman. Then you compare that to like Leonardo DiCaprio, who's got like 15 girlfriends that he breaks up with at 25 years old and there's a whole meme like he's not dating anybody over 25 years old.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

What do you think is the difference between those two if you were going to just generalize or make some assumptions?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Well, yeah, the assumption that I'm making about Leonardo DiCaprio is that, you know, he's running from himself and he, and he's, he's avoiding a part of him. Maybe it's mortality, maybe it's his ego needs to be seen in a particular way. Maybe he just loves 20 year olds. I, there's, there's something that. Look, man, if you have a pattern. I look at patterns. If you have a pattern of dating someone in the moment they turn 25 or round about that time you break up with them and you've been doing that over and over and over again. It's very telling about something that's living within you, like what's your fear, you know? Again, yeah, I've got a. I would have to not assess him per se, but spend some time with him asking some meaningful questions. Not to be too assumptious, but to me it looks like he's fearful of commitment, he's fearful of being seen in a particular way and he's probably a bit fearful of his own mortality, basically.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. Do you think being scared of commitment is becoming more of a common thing or do you think this is just generally something we've had issues with for a long time?

[Stephanos Safandos]

It's probably becoming more common because of technology, dating apps, accessibility, globalization, mass. Mass media communication, the perception of so many fish in the sea, the grass is greener mentality. And so we just, we just, we commit less, you know, because we think that ours. I'll just go, go on the dating app and swap and I'll, you know, find someone.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. And do you think that's going to get worse before it gets better?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Probably. And it will get better. It is getting better, I think, but it'll probably still keep getting worse. Yeah, it's getting better because people are sort of tired of the, you know, people are tired of the fake bots that are on these dating apps as well that are being revealed. You know, people are tired of the, of the. Essentially people want real contact. People were, were tired of what happened after Covid. Well, I hope they are. Hope they're tired enough. I could see, but we'll see what's next. But you know, people want contact, man.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yeah. And so what would you say your average woman in the world today is looking for in a man and your average man is looking for in a woman today?

[Stephanos Safandos]

I think the average woman. So generally speaking, I think what a woman is looking for in a man is emotional availability, consistency and stability and clarity and certainty about what they want. I think what a man is looking for, generally speaking, in a woman is reverence, acceptance of his past and his present, respect, adoration and trust. And, and I would say, I would say, I would say nurturance and, and compassion, but not from a motherly perspective as a, as a partner, as a wife, as a woman, side by side. You know, and, and there's sort of the caveat here is that these, these individuals are self aware, that they believe in healthy relationships. They're growth oriented. You know what I'm saying?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yeah. And you think generally as a society, we're falling short on these big time.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're a joke, bro. I think if aliens came and saw us, they'd laugh and, and that's probably why they haven't visited us.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. And you see parallel common themes of, you know, trauma loops that are being perpetuated in relationships. On behalf of both sexes, if you're going to generalize, what are most men struggling from today and what are most women struggling from? Obviously it's a major generalization, but I'm sure you've got a lot of common themes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We're humans, man. So there's definitely themes there that play out. Generational themes. They just keep playing out. They just get passed down. Right. I think, I think for women it's not, you know, not being able to access their anger and men not being able to access their sadness is one of the, one of the themes. Women not being in their voice and in their power. Is it really a generational trauma that's been passed down in healthy ways too? Right. Is what I mean by that. For men, just the, the insecurity and this immense pressure to perform, man, it's so damaging. Again, like, I don't. That's not, that's not to say like don't pursue, don't perform, don't. I mean, don't, you know, strive for what you want. It's just that there are so many masks and conditions that are placed on that that we just, you know, we just forget who we are as men. I would also say another thing that so many men don't, don't actually prioritize their health and you know, sure there's a sub, a sub populace that does, but so many men don't man. And it's all about the pursuit of the thing or survival and they sacrifice themselves. Yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

Why do we do that? I, I've done that for many years where I just, I just grind, just keep going and grinding and grinding and grinding.

[Stephanos Safandos]

You said it. Yeah. Because of the performance piece. Like that's, that's like our ability to perform and accomplish and achieve and accumulate. If I go a little deeper, it's, it's our need to be needed. Right. So men carry a wound of utility. And this is an evolutionary thing in my opinion. Like when you, when you carried utility, when you carried value, you were worth something in the tribe. You contributed. So if you don't, if you, if you're useless and you're not useful and of utility, it affects, it affects our self esteem, it affects our self worth. And so we spend more time in that area attempting to be of utility in whatever capacity we believe is right. In order to survive.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, I feel like that's, I feel like that's getting worse for men today. Since post1971, since we detached from the dollar, they're printing an enormous amount of money. The average house is significantly more, you know, on than the average year, years annual, annual salary is. And I think a lot of men are struggling to feel good in their ways as providers.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Well, they used to be the sole provider. Well, they used to be the sole provider. Not, not that long ago. Right now they're not. Now, you know, women are out not everywhere but in the middle class. Women are outperforming, are beginning to outperform men in terms of earnings.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. Do you think that that's something that's gonna change or we're just gonna have to kind of, of recalibrate ourselves as, as humans and different sexes to kind of deal with the times?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. I have to, I'd have to really sit and think about that. Is that something that's going to shift and change and also, I mean change is Inevitable. Right. But how it changes and when it changes, I'm not sure. I mean my experience is that not that, not that women don't want to work, they do. And they want to make their own money. It's great. But there's a movement towards hyper independence that's starting to be rejected as well.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. I saw a post this morning from a woman, she's 40 years old. She basically is just bitching about how she got duped into entering the workforce and being a boss ass and making all this money. And she's like, I just want to have kids at home, I want to be at home, I want my husband to work. She's like, I literally fell for this. But I see a lot more of that these days.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, so do I. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I don't know how representative that is of everyone, but. Yeah, again like I think we're seeing many different move movements emerge. Not necessarily only because there's more new movements emerging, but because of accessibility to comms and information. Right. I think that's part of it. So that, that also creates, you know, stimulus overload in our own minds as well. And so sometimes we just, just to deal with that, we shut it out and we move into avoidance. So I'm not sure how, how that's going to be embraced at a more collective level.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, I feel like there's more signal, but there's also more noise in the world today. Finding the signal is ever more challenging.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

And so how do you, do you have any practical, practical advice on how to navigate through the world when we're getting inundated with, with conflicting information? I mean, you could find information to support being a liar and a cheater. You could find information to support being honest and monogamous. You could find somebody who's going to convince you you're going to live to 100 years by being a vegan. Someone else who's going to convince you to be, you know, you're going to live to 100 by eating only steak. So what do you do to find the signal and the noise and figure out what you truly resonate with and what's your what, what you're in alignment with versus what you're just being, I don't know, psyoped in some way?

[Stephanos Safandos]

You could say a couple of things. I think being soft is a very real thing by the way. So cultivate and create more self worth and more value in yourself. And one of the ways in which you do that is by challenging yourself and overcoming those challenges. Whether it's eating a little differently or going to the gym three times a week or working on that project that you want to complete or whatever it is, just, just engage in daily micro and macro, bigger macro challenges, right? Spend more time with yourself in solitude so you get to know yourself in, in deeper, more profound ways. And in doing so you become more discerning. So then you've got to block out that noise, man. You've got to have discipline. Like you don't spend hours and hours on social media every day. You're gonna have to shut that off or be disciplined. Say I'm gonna spend 10 minutes in the morning and 10 at 9am and 10 minutes at night at, at 7:30pm after put the kids down or whatever. Like if you run it on your business, you have other team members, you've got to be disciplined. And then you've got to be really deliberate and choose discerning. Like what information do I want to read, what do I want to focus on? And you know, some people struggle to concentrate in very specific ways or struggle, learn about your brain, learn about how you learn best, right? And then be discerning. Don't watch tv, don't read newspapers. Be deliberate and choose where you get your, your, your, your news from or your information from. Just remember, man, it wasn't that long ago, a few generations back, you didn't know what the was going on 100 meters or 100ft or 100 yards past your home. Totally remember that. You didn't, you didn't. No one was talking about Iran and Pakistan. No one was talking about Israel and Palestine. You didn't know that. You didn't know anything was happening. You didn't even know Australia existed. Like you know any of that. And so the stimulus and the intensity was far less. So I'm not saying bury your head in the sand and pretend shit doesn't exist. I'm not saying that at all. I'm a big proponent of what I call placid preparation for where the world could be going. All right? I don't want to do it with my stomach in knots. I don't necessarily want to do it with anxiousness and I don't do it with lightness. Fun, classic preparation. But if you're over consuming and that's all that's in your feed or that's all you're filtering through and that's all you're paying attention to, it's going to be tough to, to grow. It's going to be tough to, you know, choose what you pay attention. You've got to be disciplined with that.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yes. What advice would you give your 15 year old self? Being the man that you are today.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Wow. Man. Like, you are enough. Like, I would, I would just say to him, like, you are enough as you are. Doesn't, don't. That doesn't mean don't pursue all the things that you want to pursue, but you're enough. Don't do it from a place of not being enough and needing to prove yourself to the world because you don't. Like, you're. The fact you're bringing good. Yeah. Like your intrinsic value resides in your breath. You're alive, you're here. That's enough. You're enough. Full stop.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. The fact that you exist means you deserve to exist.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. I think it goes back to what you asked earlier about, you know, some of the issues men face and women face. Like that's another one for men, man. Like, I think it's all of us actually, but enough. Like we just don't believe we're enough. So we're compensating and pushing and pushing and we have this fear that if we don't, we don't, you know, if we all of a sudden believe we're enough now. We're not going to pursue and create and, and build. That's not true. We're just going to create, build and pursue from a different place. A healthier place within ourselves.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Oh, that. Do you think that that's a growing problem or is that something we've been just grappling with for all of no time?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Growing problem?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Is it more. More people, more energy, more access to information, more confusion, more compression, more intensity being received, more stimulus? Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, I think more of a novel problem. More of a novel challenge. For sure. I think we used to be a lot slower. Like if you just think of again, not to say that we didn't have issues and challenges hundreds of thousands of years ago. Thousands and thousands of years ago. But it was a slower life.

[Robert Breedlove]

I think the challenges were more easy to wrap your mind around.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

Don't get eaten by a saber tooth and make sure you could bring some food home. And the babes picked berries and you got firewood for the campfire.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Simplicity. We live in a lot of complexity, man. We have a lot more layers to our reality these days. You know, just.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I mean, not to, you know, we haven't mentioned bitcoin yet, but just even cryptocurrency, even this transition from, you know, where we've been to where we're going in terms of how we interact with each other and trade and do business and commerce, like even commerce, just itself and education, like just those two things right there are so complex, they take up so much mental bandwidth.

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[Robert Breedlove]

Hunting.

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[Robert Breedlove]

Yes, I have found immense solace in having a bitcoin strategy. It's just, it's so simple. I go to the marketplace, I, I, I earn what extra I have, I put it into bitcoin done. And then when I have moments of, of thinking to myself like, ah, life is hard or scary or whatever, I think if I were to tell my ancestors that I have undebasable, unconfiscatable, unfuck withable and metaphysical property that nobody can get. If they steal from me and I'm anxious, they would slap me, they would be like, dude, we've all been getting killed, stolen from, had to contend with these challenges that you don't have to deal with anymore now that you have bitcoin. And I think about that and pertains to inherited ancestral trauma. You know how many people have had to contend with getting killed or stolen from for, since the beginning of time. And the implications of having inviolable property are, I think, yet to be seen. But I do think about that in terms of inherited ancestral trauma. You know what I think we, we interviewed an individual recently who was talking about shame and how fiat exacerbates this feeling and shame of shame in men who are struggling to provide for their families.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Shame is a killer, man. I've lived with it for so much of my life and it is, it is a killer, particularly for men. A killer man. Shade hides in the dark and it doesn't want to be seen. And we will do everything, everything to not show our shame, including killing ourselves.

[Robert Breedlove]

Why?

[Stephanos Safandos]

It's one of the reasons why suicide is so high in men. Higher in men.

[Robert Breedlove]

What are men on average shameful about? Like, I'm wondering at this point, like what, what shame do I have? I mean, I have to have shame. I must feel shameful about something. But you know, I couldn't. I don't think I could.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Some of it's future projected, man. Like, some of it is just if I don't do this then. And we bring it into the present moment, so much of it is future projected.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, that is definitely my challenge. I spend a lot of what takes me out of the presence is thinking about the future. My wife gives me about it sometimes. She's like, you're just over there just going in circles about what you're going to do next month or six months from now. I have no issues with the past, but my issue is, is, you know, I, I'm out of the present moment because I'm too in the future, which is a real issue. And I find myself, especially with my 4 year old daughter being like, whoa, I need to be present. Here I am playing with my kid, but I'm in some fictitious land that doesn't even exist and I'm not being present.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, yeah, I, I am guilty of that as well, my friend. Guilty of not. And that's, that's one of the biggest things, my being a parent, being a dad to my little girl, like she just, you know, just by her, just by her existence, she is asking me to be present and in that presence. Like it doesn't matter what's happening in the markets. It's an abstract thing. It doesn't matter what's happening in any other country or any other place or any other room in the house. Like this is all that matters right now. And there's something to be said for that. Presence is a peace that comes with presence, man. I would not scattered and dispersed like we're, boom, we're here. There's a deep peace that comes with that. Deep peace.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yeah. The burden to perform as a man, you know, I think is a struggle for all, for a lot of us. I heard something said Bashar said this Daryl Ankin. I don't know if you're familiar with Daryl Ankin.

[Stephanos Safandos]

No.

[Robert Breedlove]

Talks about, you know, metaphysics and, you know, quantum physics. And he's. He's an interesting individual. He said something that in moments of challenge, I. I find myself rattling off in my head, and it's. Abundance is simply your ability to do what you need to do when you need to do it. And if you have that, you'll. That you'll have everything you ever need. So I find in moments where I'm like, not present, starting to get, you know, tense, concerned about the future, and then I just remind myself that abundance is simply your ability to do what you need to do when you need to do it.

[Stephanos Safandos]

I love that, man. I. And, and, and giving ourselves permission, right? Like giving, Giving ourselves permission to do the thing that we want to do when we want to do it. You know what I mean by the permission piece? Like, maybe I should elaborate a little bit on that, so.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah, please do.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. So what I mean by that is that we're not. We're not locked into a perception of what the world wants us to be and wants us to do, but we're truly following again, we're relational beings. There's inputs that we have and we take into account into heart people that we value, like, you know, wives, children, et cetera, friends. But we're truly doing what we want to do for ourselves and for the values that we hold within us. Not because we're being told to do it or we think will look more favorable in the public's eye, which again, is a very evolutionary thing. Right. Like you want to look. It's why public speaking is the most scariest thing. Totally imagine like 100 or a thousand or 5,000 people rejecting everything you're saying.

[Robert Breedlove]

Oh, man. I got asked to do a keynote a year and a half ago. Off, dude. I was up for like two months. Two months. And I'm just thinking, why, why, why am I all messed up now? Like, I could be uncomfortable for five minutes, but before I go on stage. This is wrecking me. I guess it's hardwired into us, though. We need to be socially accepted. The weirdos that weren't socially accepted got ostracized and they died alone in the woods. Right? Yep. So how do you. How do you. What practical advice do you have for, like, channeling our authenticity? Being social beings who need to be accepted? It's such a conflicting thing.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. Part of it. Again, multi. We're multi layered beings. I think we need multifaceted approach to problems or challenges that we're facing. Part of it is really sitting with the idea of that and talking about it and being aware of it and saying, okay, like how important is it really that a stranger in the crowd values or believes what I say? Like how important is it? For me, this is where self reflection, self awareness is. It really matters. Asking questions of self and then moving this stuff through, through our bodies and actually being with it. What is it that's so important that I need someone that I'll never see again to approve of me or validate me? I wonder where that comes from. Because you know, you ask an intelligent question, intelligent answers begin to arise. The quality of the questions we ask lead to the quality of the lives that we live. So ask quality questions about self. Now. Yes. You may get to a point where like, oh, it's evolutionary, it's hardwired within us and what do I really care? Care? What does it mean to care? What's underneath that? What's the root of that? And you just start exploring yourself. Right? That's one part of it. The other part is keep cultivating more and more self confidence and self worth. Part of that is again, I mentioned challenge earlier, mastery.

[Robert Breedlove]

Micro wins. Sorry, micro wins.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Oh yes. And celebrate and acknowledge your micro wins. That's the other thing that most men are. So not just men people, but men particularly are so bad at doing that. We're so poor at this. We're so poor at acknowledging ourselves when we have a win. Man. I just, I just wrote it.

[Robert Breedlove]

That, that is true. That's really true.

[Stephanos Safandos]

There's a few reasons behind it. Right. Like, I mean I just wrote a book. I got, I have a two book deal with Hay House published with Hay House. Right. The, the dream for me is the, the largest self help publisher in the world. You know, just. Yes.

[Robert Breedlove]

Congratulations, by the way.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Thank you. Appreciate that. That's one of the reasons why I'm here as well, you know, with you guys. But my friends were a couple of friends going, oh man, it's such a big deal. Are you proud? I'm like, no, not really. Like, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm proud of it. Yeah, for sure. But it's like, was it a big deal? It wasn't that big. Like I didn't then, I mean I've been writing for like 25 years. But like I said, we, I thought, why is it that I'm not actually pausing and just stop smother roses for a moment, you know?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Because I'm conditioned for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So part of that is, like, we're just addicted to dopamine, man, which is anticipatory. So we're not in the present moment. We're always in the future. So I got the book. It's done. What's the next thing? I've got to market the book. Okay. What's after that? I got to write the next book. Okay. What's after that? Like, it's. So I've got to slow down and just. Hold on a sec. This is actually a big accomplishment, so it's a really big thing for me, personally. So let me just actually. Slow down. Slow down. That word slow. Let me slow down. Let me be still. Let me actually be with this. This. This stuff matters. And we're just. We move so fast, man, and we're conditioned to. To having to perform so much that we don't take the time to just be with the things that matter. It's like you're playing Mario Brothers, right? On sort of showing our age here. But actually, I don't know how old you are. I don't want to assume how old you are.

[Robert Breedlove]

41.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Okay. I'm 43. So around the same. Playing Mario Brothers, you get to Big Bad Bowser at level. End of level one, you beat him. How do you know? How does the game know that you can Progress to level 2?

[Robert Breedlove]

By beating. Beating the first level.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yes, Correct. So it acknowledges in. In a sense, right? It acknowledges that you've accomplished certain tasks to progress you to the next level, which comes with greater challenge, but also more mystery, more excitement, more novelty, more everything, right?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes.

[Stephanos Safandos]

The value of acknowledgment is so powerful that when we acknowledge the thing that we've done. I'm speaking to myself here, but by the way, when we acknowledge something that we've done that we've been working hard on, and we pause long enough to acknowledge it, life then brings us more fruits. But it doesn't really do that if we don't take the time to just sit and acknowledge. Like, life just goes by so quickly, man. And we. We. We're 90, 100 for Lucky to live that long. Healthily on our deathbed, thinking, what the did I just do? What happened? Like, you notice when you're living a very busy life, time flies. But when you live a very slow, a slower life. I'm not saying don't live a busy life, but when you live a slower life, time seems to go a little slower.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. I find time goes slower in my personal experience. In reality, when I'm in a state of resistance, when I'm not in a state of resistance, it's like that flow state. Time flies, having fun, time seems to go by, there's no resistance. It's not hard. I don't feel that lead weight in my foot, you know, where it's like, oh, I gotta do these things that are hard or challenging or whatever. And I think that that's maybe just fundamentally operating from a lower vibrational state, you know, maybe subconscious fears.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Possibly. Yeah, yeah. I also read something not long ago on the perception of time and how novel experiences having novel not being in monotony and not being in, in the sort of the mundane Groundhog Day experience when we're in, that actually speeds up the perception of time. And so we be. But when we have, when we inject novelty and variety into our world. This is one of the reasons probably why non monogamy is very attractive. Time slows down, like over long distance. I'm not talking about sort of like in the moment, although it can, but more so like over long periods of time. So it's important basically what this, this study was saying, and I can't remember what the term for it's called, but what this study was saying is like, be deliberate with injecting novel experiences in your life. And that could be like, hey, climb, you know, go drive a few hours to climb a new mountain. It doesn't have to be anything extravagant, right? It could even just be, take a different path to work, different route that you would normally take to work. Like little things add up, right? But you know, when we're young, everything's novel, everything's, everything's new and different. But as we get older, we get into routine and routine is important for stability and for, for a sense of safety and, you know, even pleasure in its own right. But novelty is very important as well, as is variety.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Yeah, I went to the post office yesterday and I tell my, my 4 year old, I'm like, hey, you want to go to the post office with me, Paul? She was pumped, dude. Of course, my wife is ecstatic too. Like, yeah, could you just get her out of the house for like a half an hour, please? Like, please. Yeah, no problem. Let's go to the post office office. We're driving there and the whole time she's like, I'm just, I'm so excited, I'm so excited to go to the post office. And I'm just thinking, gosh, that level of excitement. It was a real moment for me where I was like, ah, you know, there's, it's. I can be excited about the mundane things in life. Just the fact that you're alive is so special. And I think it's unfortunate that so many people get sucked into, you know, a state where they're, they're overlooking the amazing things. You know, just if you're happy and healthy, just the fact that you exist. And I play this gratitude game when I'm struggling. You can extrapolate, you know, backwards from I'm not dead, you know, okay, I got this problem. This problem is solvable. And you could play that all the way out to at least I'm not dead. And you could be grateful about your problems. I find that personally that helps move me out of that like rutted, negative, low vibe state. Just gratitude practice.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Gratitude's powerful, man. Gratitude, you know, deep, genuine gratitude promotes serotonin. Serotonin allows us to be present. Presence gives us so much access to our power. It just, it's so diffusing because we're just by default blocking out everything else that's not happening right here, right now for us. It's powerful, man.

[Robert Breedlove]

Yes. Oh, man, this has been fun. I feel like we've gone long enough. Do you have any other, I don't know, words of wisdom? Any final thoughts you wanted to share? I know we kind of covered a lot of ground all over the place a little bit.

[Stephanos Safandos]

No, that's okay. I mean, it's, that's life, right? No, just, just maybe an opportunity just to share where people can get my book. Because I speak a lot of, a lot about this to, to my book, you know, if that's a, if I can do that a lot to help cultivating healthy relationships and what that looks like and how that impacts life positively, you know?

[Robert Breedlove]

Yeah. What's your book called?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, Tuned in and turned on.

[Robert Breedlove]

Tuned in and Turned On.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Robert Breedlove]

Amazing. And where can people find you on the Internet, socials, website, anything of the such?

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, of course, yeah. To grab the book, you can go on Tuned in and turned on book.com and there are a stack of bonuses that are still available, but just for a limited time on that. I'll be taking those off pretty soon. And you can find me on Instagram @Stephanos Fandos, YouTube @Stephanos Safandos for longer form content there my website stephanosofandos.com or if you want to work with me, coach with Steph.com.

[Robert Breedlove]

fantastic. Well, man, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. Thank you for your time and yeah, keep doing the good work.

[Stephanos Safandos]

Yeah, appreciate you very much, man. Thank you for your time too.

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