Ep. 2: “Special Treatments” with Tayme Thapthimthong, Lalisa Manobal and Sam Nivola

Summary

The White Lotus Official Podcast: Episode 2 – “Special Treatments”

Release Date: February 24, 2025

Hosts: Jia Tolentino and Josh Bearman
Guests: Tayme Tap Tim Tong, Lalisa Manobal, and Sam Nivola
Produced by: Campside Media with HBO

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Introduction

The episode begins with a brief, humorous exchange between hosts Gia Tolentino and Josh Bearman, setting a casual and engaging tone for the discussion. They swiftly move past advertisements to dive into the heart of Episode 2, titled "Special Treatments."

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Episode Breakdown: "Special Treatments"

Fake Personas and Genuine Interactions

Gia and Josh analyze the dynamics among the three women—played by Carrie Coon, Kate, and Jacqueline—highlighting how their interactions are meticulously crafted performances. Gia notes, “the dynamic on display between these three women is that everything that they are doing when it's the three of them together is completely fake” (03:37), which collapses into genuine conversations once one departs the group.

Gossip as Self-Preservation

Josh elaborates on the women’s gossip, suggesting it's a coping mechanism: “They probably console themselves by believing that their gossip is actually a form of caring... but it’s because they don’t do anything. There’s no action taken” (04:16). This behavior underscores their emotional struggles and lack of constructive action.

Character Relationships and Sexual Fulfillment

The hosts delve into the characters' personal lives, particularly focusing on the unfulfilled sexual lives of the women. Josh remarks, “Arrange that the characters are all versions of him...[Mike White] really cares for all of them” (37:32), emphasizing the sympathetic portrayal of even the most flawed characters.

Robbery Scene and Elevated Drama

A significant portion of the episode discusses the unexpected robbery scene, where Mook and Gytok's attempt to steal jewelry introduces real danger into the narrative. Gia expresses surprise: “I was surprised that we physically saw a gun” (07:30), contrasting it with the typically non-violent tone of earlier episodes.

Performance and Identity Themes

The discussion shifts to the overarching themes of performance and identity within the series. Josh observes, “a lot of this episode is about performance… the three friends who are on their girls trip who are engaging in this ongoing self performance for each other” (14:15). Gia adds that the Ratliff family embodies a "group performance of some kind," where maintaining a perfect facade is paramount.

Character Development and Future Directions

Both hosts speculate on the future trajectories of the characters, pondering who might undergo significant transformations versus those who remain static. Gia notes, “Piper’s trying to opt out… The parents are kind of orchestrating the whole thing” (16:54), suggesting impending conflicts and character arcs.

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Guest Interviews

Tayme Tap Tim Tong & Lalisa Manobal as Gytok and Mook

Representation and Authenticity

Tayme and Lalisa discuss their experiences portraying the primary Thai characters. Tayme emphasizes their efforts to depict authentic Thai personalities: “I really hope that we represent how sweet Thai people are because we try to make it as authentic as possible” (20:57). Lalisa highlights the cultural significance, stating, “it’s a chance for us to show our culture to the world” (21:29).

Character Relationships and Romance

The hosts inquire about the slow-burning romance between Gytok and Mook. Tayme explains Gytok’s internal conflict: “he has been thinking about this for a while… should I? Because… that hesitation at that lunch table was all about” (24:37). Lalisa adds that their long-standing friendship evolved naturally into romance: “Mook and Gytok is like family friends since they were young… when he confessed, she was like, oh, maybe let’s try it” (25:31).

Filming Experience and On-Set Dynamics

Tayme and Lalisa share insights into their on-set chemistry and the supportive environment. Lalisa remarks, “everyone just being like such a supportive role for me” (26:58), while Tayme describes the ease of working together: “we sat us together for the dinner… it was just very, very smooth” (27:57).

Character Aspirations and Future

Discussing their characters’ futures, Lalisa believes both Gytok and Mook are ready to leave White Lotus for better opportunities: “they are both ready to leave White Lotus if they have a better opportunity” (29:01). Tayme reflects on Gytok’s potential growth, “deep down inside, he did take that… and he does slowly, I think, push himself more” (29:25).

Sam Nivola as Lachlan Ratliff

Casting and Character Interpretation

Sam Nivola shares his straightforward casting experience and his approach to portraying Lachlan: “all of our callbacks… we just had the most stress ridden Christmases” (31:39). He discusses Lachlan’s internal struggles, highlighting his desire for love and support: “all Lachlan wants is a friend… he is a really, really deeply insecure, lonely person” (32:38).

Themes of Identity and Meaninglessness

Sam delves into Lachlan’s obsession with tsunami videos, interpreting it as a manifestation of his existential fears: “the tsunami video obsession is a sort of writer’s tool… it highlights the meaninglessness of life” (38:35). He connects this to the family’s overarching fear of losing their privileged lifestyle.

Character Dynamics and Family Relationships

Analyzing Lachlan’s interactions, Sam explains the tension between him and his mother, Victoria: “Victoria is just incredibly threatened… she thinks our family is this unbreakable unit” (36:21). This leads to Lachlan’s rare moments of assertiveness, revealing his desire to break free from familial expectations.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts thanking their guests and teasing future discussions. They reiterate the depth and complexity of the characters in "Special Treatments," emphasizing themes of performance, identity, and the fragile facades people maintain.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Bierman: “They probably console themselves by believing that their gossip is actually a form of caring” (04:16).
• Sam Nivola: “All Lachlan wants is a friend… he is a really, really deeply insecure, lonely person” (32:38).
• Tayme Tap Tim Tong: “I really hope that we represent how sweet Thai people are because we try to make it as authentic as possible” (20:57).

This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of "Special Treatments," providing listeners with deep insights into character motivations, thematic elements, and behind-the-scenes perspectives from the cast.

Transcript

[Gia Tolentino]

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[Josh Bierman]

Her friend is Jacqueline Lemon.

[Gia Tolentino]

Who's that?

[Tame Tap]

She's an actress.

[Josh Bierman]

She's famous.

[Gia Tolentino]

Should I be impressed? Actresses are all basically prostitutes if they're lucky. Am I right? Hello and welcome to the White Lotus official podcast companion to season three. I'm Gia Tolentino.

[Josh Bierman]

And I'm Josh Bierman.

[Gia Tolentino]

And I'm here to warn you that if you. If you haven't watched episode two of season three, watch it right now before listening to this, because we will spoil every single beat of the episode for you if you don't.

[Josh Bierman]

Yes. Although this may be the last warning, because by now you probably know how podcasts work.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

And later on in this episode, we're going to be speaking with Tame Tap, Tim Tong and Lalisa Manaval, who play Guy Talk and Mook, and Sam Nivola, who plays the youngest Ratliff Lachlan.

[Gia Tolentino]

Josh, I have a question for you before we get into all of this. This is my toxic Sex and the City assortative behavior question after following these characters for two episodes. Who. Who are you? Are you still Goggins?

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm now stronger in the Goggins direction when he gets into the treatment center and is there in this kind of spiritual repartee with the guru there. I don't need to detach. I'm already nothing.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Even nothing can be an illusion, you tell yourself.

[Josh Bierman]

That's when I was like, oh, yeah, now I get it. That's where I fit in. Who are you identifying with?

[Gia Tolentino]

I'm lessening on my Chelsea identification. It's really the party girl aspect of her that I connect with. But she's a little bit more naive and sweet in this episode than I am, necessarily. I, unfortunately, am beginning to identify more with the three women who are constantly talking shit about each other.

[Josh Bierman]

And where do you land in that trio?

[Gia Tolentino]

Oh, God. Well, unfortunately, I'm not. I mean, I'm not a Laurie. Never been a Lori. Just kidding. I probably have been a Laurie at times in my past. It is one of the women that are eager to be the alpha. This episode is called Special Treatments, and it's once again written and directed by Mike White. The episode starts where the last episode ends, which is like after Carrie Coon has gone to bed and Kate and Jacqueline, Leslie Pibb and Michelle Monaghan can really get into the gossip. And the dynamic on display between these three women is that everything that they are doing when it's the three of them together is completely fake. And then as soon as one of them leaves, they snap into the mode of truth telling.

[Josh Bierman]

They probably console themselves by believing that their gossip is actually a form of caring because they're talking about, oh, poor things, you know, went through this troubled time. But it's not really constructive, compassionate. It's because. It's because they don't do anything. There's no action taken. And then later, the other leg of the stool is present when it's Laurie and Kate talking about Michelle Monaghan. Yeah, exactly. And then it's seemed like she picks up that they're talking about her explicitly. Right. They're trying to, like, basically undo that facade brick by brick in the conversation they were having just before.

[Gia Tolentino]

And then the whole thing with the husband.

[Sam Nivola]

Yes.

[Gia Tolentino]

There's something weird there. Right. She goes on and on. They're so in love.

[Josh Bierman]

They're addicted to each other.

[Gia Tolentino]

But I mean, are they ever even.

[Josh Bierman]

In the same city?

[Gia Tolentino]

I don't think they ever see each other. Yeah. And now we don't. We just have to wait for the shit. Talk about Leslie Pibb, which I can't wait to hear what that is. But it's like you find out in the. When they're talking about Jacqueline that it's like both of those women have been profoundly sexually unfulfilled for a long time. And you find it out just in the way that they kind of talk.

[Josh Bierman]

Right, right. Also, I mean, I feel, again, I feel like it's difficult to watch, but it's also, I think the writing is sympathetic to the characters. Like, they're not malevolent. They're all doing. It's all kind of self preservation. Right. Because you're feeling instincts of comparison and your emotional hackles are up, but based on your friend's success or not. And so there's this compulsion basically to try to then measure yourself and rebalance it by having your side gossip or introducing a negative thought about the other friend to the third one.

[Gia Tolentino]

Right, right, right, right.

[Josh Bierman]

Like, it's just. It's like this natural sort of self preserv. I also loved their interaction with Fabian, the hotel director.

[Gia Tolentino]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Bierman]

When he comes over and reveals that he, too, would love to perform.

[Gia Tolentino]

No, no.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah. That would be crazy. I wouldn't dare.

[Gia Tolentino]

Come on, get up there.

[Sam Nivola]

I'm the boss. So maybe. Maybe one day.

[Gia Tolentino]

I'm obsessed with him. I'm obsessed with him when his eye. When he drifts away to what, you know, is a montage in his head of him, like, you know, like, foliad. Just him, like, taking the stage in a grand review with feathers and diamonds.

[Josh Bierman]

Emerging out of, like, a giant clamshell.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Josh Bierman]

Also, I am very thrown off by the fact that this is the same actor who plays Rudolf Hust, the Auschwitz commandant in Zone of Interest. Wow.

[Gia Tolentino]

His range.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah. So I'm excited to see where Fabian winds up. So we have also a scene with Mook and Gaitok, the Thai staff.

[Gia Tolentino]

He really blew it there.

[Josh Bierman]

I know. He pulled the fishhook before it was baited. Like, he didn't even. That was. He basically asked her to marry him, like, elliptically, without any context or preface. As she said we'd never been on a date. Oh, but obviously everybody's gonna be shipping these two.

[Gia Tolentino]

I know. Well. But then he kind of wins her sympathy again, because there is a actually truly surprising interlude in here with the robbery. With the robbery where Valentin is distracting guy talk at the gate.

[Josh Bierman]

Yes. It appears like there's a deception operation here so that a car can get in, and there's masked dudes running with guns and stealing.

[Gia Tolentino]

They just steal some jewelry. I'm like, that's not that much stuff. You know? Like, you don't even get a cash register. Like, is that. I mean, do you want to establish.

[Josh Bierman]

Is that really expensive? It must be expensive. I guess it must be expensive. She really wants that snake choker.

[Gia Tolentino]

I know we're gonna get that back, but that snake is gonna reoccur. But we got the gun. I mean, I was surprised that we physically. That we physically saw a gun. I was expecting to not see the gun until the last episode. I mean, who knows if it's the same gun, et cetera? But I enjoyed that we saw a gun, but so on the way back.

[Josh Bierman]

Out, gets pistol whipped. Yeah, you gasped.

[Gia Tolentino]

You were like, oh, no, I'm not squeamish about violence, but I hate the sound of something colliding with the head. But clearly, Mook Is attracted to more aggressive signs of masculinity. She's kind of interested in the dirtbag bodyguards or whatever. Right. She is giving all of the classic signals of this nice man. Is too gentle to me and I don't like that.

[Josh Bierman]

It's interesting. Quick side note, that guy, the real guy, is like a special Forces.

[Gia Tolentino]

Really.

[Josh Bierman]

He's like a military guy.

[Gia Tolentino]

Really.

[Josh Bierman]

And yeah. And you can tell like if you meet him, he's not like that character at all.

[Gia Tolentino]

Like this sort of stuff. Well, that's funny.

[Josh Bierman]

Right?

[Gia Tolentino]

But so once he is sort of bandaged up, she comes to him and is like, I was so worried or whatever. Right.

[Sam Nivola]

Like.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, I know. That's so sweet.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

Well, I'm hoping for them. I was struck by something with the robbery. What happens just after is the classic white lotus dinner seating, which still remains much more dramatic than the robbery had just happened. You're like, oh, okay. I guess so. I don't know. I've seen that before. What's gonna happen at dinner? I mean, I was even thinking about how the show works in this novelistic way of making the rounds. Draw the characters over and over again and each time adding a little bit of layer of personality and so on. So we had the Quebecois, maybe escort.

[Gia Tolentino]

Who met the matchmaking service in Dubai.

[Josh Bierman]

And the foursome at dinner.

[Tame Tap]

What about you?

[Josh Bierman]

What do you do? Well, the same thing that you do, Gary. This and that.

[Tame Tap]

Meet a lot of people here who.

[Josh Bierman]

Do this and that.

[Gia Tolentino]

Right. In which Chelsea and Rick get to feel like a functional and loving couple compared to the other two. She's young and fun like me. And he's old and grumpy like you.

[Sam Nivola]

I'm just kidding.

[Josh Bierman]

I'm glad that you made a friend. By the way. That sex scene. Surprising. But also that it seemed very genuine and tender.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

And then I was again, I was like, all you want to be do if you're like wounded, all you want to be do is like taken care of by like an open hearted fawn.

[Gia Tolentino]

Totally, totally.

[Josh Bierman]

And so that's what he then it made. So now I get like this is why they're together.

[Gia Tolentino]

Occasionally he lets her and then she feels happy about it. And then he obviously feels happy about it. But he doesn't always let her.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, right, right. Even not sexually. Like, she throws out the tantric offer at the beginning and he doesn't go for it. And it's only when he really feels.

[Gia Tolentino]

I guess, vulnerable by the meditation session.

[Josh Bierman]

Exactly. That he's open to receive her.

[Gia Tolentino]

And then the continued Psychosexual horror show that is Patrick Schwarzenegger. Like, he has gotten a boner during a massage. I mean, you know, I'm not gonna fault him for that, but is mad that nothing happened to it.

[Josh Bierman]

Oh, speaking. What? Aren't they all supposed to be a little species? Saxon, Stop it. It's interesting. I mean, Saxon is this very timely re. Articulation of just, like, pure American male id. He's like Gordon Gekko. He's like. To this, you know, but fresh out.

[Gia Tolentino]

Of, you know, delta whatever it.

[Josh Bierman]

Right, exactly right.

[Sam Nivola]

But what do I want?

[Tame Tap]

I guess pussy, money, freedom, respect.

[Josh Bierman]

Get laid, get everything.

[Gia Tolentino]

He's kind of like a ball of flame. Like, his presence is just this unidirectional, nearly pansexual. It's really specifically masculine, but it's just like, he is just so horny and so aggressive. I mean, he's sexually harassing both of his siblings so hard. Do you know what I mean?

[Josh Bierman]

And his parents just giggle about it.

[Gia Tolentino]

He's two seconds away from trying to see his younger brother just, like, trying to be like, okay, but how big is it when it's on? You know? Like, he's just like, oh, he's so right.

[Josh Bierman]

That could be coming.

[Gia Tolentino]

And then his sister has found out when she is on this sort of hammock situation in the water that I've never personally experienced, and I'd really like to now.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, how do I have that in my house?

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah, like, how do I. And it seems actually like we can't. Like, I had that thought, and I was like, actually, I can't replicate this.

[Josh Bierman]

It cannot be done.

[Gia Tolentino]

I need open ocean. But she finds out then from Lachlan, the younger brother, who's just been in a sensory deprivation tank, basically is asking, like, are you a virgin? We've been talking about how you're hot, but you're not having sex. And understandably and rightfully so. The sister's like, what.

[Josh Bierman]

What are you talking. Why are you two.

[Gia Tolentino]

Why are you talking about this? You know? Well, and we learn from Piper that she believes in God.

[Sam Nivola]

Don't you feel like that could just be, like, wishful thinking? Like, you want to feel something, it's real.

[Gia Tolentino]

We don't know exactly in what sort of presentation format, but my guess for her is that she is kind of a recent convert to spirituality or, you know, like something. And she had such a strong. Like, I feel. I mean, not that this is any of my business, but it was part. I feel like she has had sex and she is redevoting her like that she is trying to deny the life of the flesh at the moment. She's trying to transcend the prison of one's body and identity. We'll see.

[Josh Bierman]

Some of the characters now. We're seeing some leads as to what might happen. Right. So Belinda.

[Gia Tolentino]

Oh, I love Belinda's moment.

[Josh Bierman]

Clocks the hot botchize bod.

[Tame Tap]

So how would you like me on my back or on my stomach?

[Gia Tolentino]

And she's like, on my stomach.

[Josh Bierman]

And he's like, I meant me. And so. And then she also clocks Gary Greg at the dinner. Right?

[Gia Tolentino]

I know, and it's such a good. I hadn't thought about her feelings that she would have. I mean, because at what point does she already know that Tanya is dead?

[Josh Bierman]

Right?

[Gia Tolentino]

Does she know, like, will she.

[Josh Bierman]

Or is she gonna suddenly start sleuthing?

[Gia Tolentino]

Right. Because I feel that she will feel an implicit alliance with Tanya, despite Tanya having configured herself as her enemy. Like, it should kind of be like, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But they're not gonna form an. Belinda is right. Like, you just kind of feel that right now. I'm like, you know what, Greg? Gary, would you come back to his third white Lotus property? Would you associate yourself? Wouldn't you want to go down the other side of the hill to the different resort? Greg is courting danger.

[Josh Bierman]

You know, like, it's true. I mean, how is he to know that Belinda's gonna show up on her.

[Gia Tolentino]

Training mission and there's no way he remembers her at all, right? No, there's no chance he remembers her, which I hope she uses to her advantage.

[Josh Bierman]

One thing I was struck by watching is that a lot of this episode is about performance. You have the vocal performance at the dinner from the matron of the hotel. And then of course, you have the three friends who are on their girls trip who are engaging in this ongoing self performance for each other, which then drops when one of them is away.

[Gia Tolentino]

Those three actors, when they are doing having fun, but primarily, like, in a way that's like, I'm performing Woman on vacation having fun. It was the best first show. She was amazing, though. Totally amazing.

[Josh Bierman]

You're amazing.

[Gia Tolentino]

Oh, my God. They're so profoundly self conscious when they're around each other. And then the way it totally collapses and changes as soon as one of them leaves the room. It's just. It's amazing. It's amazing stuff.

[Josh Bierman]

Well, I mean, it must be exhausting to write to put that on. Can you wait to be performing all the time? But also that family, the Ratliff family. Is a group performance of some kind, right? Piper's trying to opt out. Lachlan's unsure. Saxon's the biggest. He wants to be the new leading man, right? And then the parents are kind of orchestrating the whole thing, and you. I mean, it's already. The edifice is already cracking, right? And we are able to see as viewers, actually in the wings of that performance.

[Gia Tolentino]

Well, and they make it clear in almost everything the parents say that the primary sort of locus for them in, like, what is a good family is the sort of successful performance in edifice, right? You're all gorgeous and you come for money. So you have to be hyper vigilant. Okay? It's like you have to not basically, like, you've got this beautiful facade, like, don't let it slip. Leslie Bibb, she has that line where she's like, well, you know what they say, the bigger the front, the bigger the back or whatever it is, you know? And it's like. And this is an operative line for everyone, but especially. Especially that family. It's like they're. It is so core to their identity. You feel that these children have heard since they were like little kids in perfect Christmas outfits posing for their perfect Christmas picture in front of a giant, you know, tree at a country club, that, like, the virtue exists in the performance of that virtue. Like, there is no. There is no sense of the internal. Unless it is what you're. Unless it's what you're projecting again.

[Josh Bierman]

By the way, I was thinking about the prison of identity and that the.

[Gia Tolentino]

Therapist talks to Rick about.

[Josh Bierman]

And the therapist says the same thing to Rick.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Meditation can bring relief to psychic pain. Meditation helps you see that the identity you've created brings you suffering.

[Josh Bierman]

It reminded me that at the very beginning of White Lotus Season one, when they're greeting the boat, Armand is there, and they're all smiling, and he's there with the woman who later just gives birth in the middle of the hotel. She's a trainee. And he's saying, what you want to do is be nobody. You know, you don't want to be too specific as a presence, as an.

[Gia Tolentino]

Identity, you want to be more generic.

[Sam Nivola]

Generic, yes.

[Gia Tolentino]

It's a Japanese ethos where we are asked to disappear behind our masks as pleasant, interchangeable helpers.

[Josh Bierman]

He's just like. You just want to be like a non presence, not a person. So you're like. He's saying, deny your identity. Later, he throws that yoke off and rolls with his identity, and he winds up dead. Right? So I feel like there's like a cautionary tale in the aspect of. Of your identity. And it's. Now I see it, like, running through the whole thing.

[Gia Tolentino]

Right. And I think that here there will be this sort of reinvention, sort of recurrence thing that will be happening that's sort of thematically consistent with the setting and Buddhism and whatever. And it's like Rick is, you know, he is on his second, third, fourth iteration of a life. It feels like, you know, like there was that moment where he and Greg, who's still going by Gary, Tanya's Greg, it's like they talk about doing this and that, and it's like every fucking white American is here for having done this and that, you know?

[Josh Bierman]

And he's like, it's a good business.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah, exactly. And so it's like, quote unquote, Gary is trying to leave his life behind. Rick is trying to either leave something behind or step into a new version of himself. I feel like Piper's doing that. The Ratliff dad is trying to, you know, take the $10 million, the mere $10 million he got out of whatever fraud, bribery situation went on in Brunei and try to leave it behind, but he can't. It's catching up with him.

[Josh Bierman]

Right. I think part of the idea of the show is that character is not destiny.

[Gia Tolentino]

Right?

[Josh Bierman]

Right. Classic storytelling is. Character is destiny.

[Gia Tolentino]

But I do think for most of the characters, like, I think there tend to. Only I think that there are, like, a couple of journeys per season that really cut at a strange angle against character's destiny. But mostly people kind of end up where. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like everyone. There's something surprising happens to everyone in the course of their week at the White Lotus. But, you know, it's like, you know, Jake Lacey's coming out of there. Same guy, same wife, same thing. You know what I mean? Like, there's. But it is interesting to wonder who it's gonna be, who it's gonna be that's gonna get out of the wringer.

[Josh Bierman]

You know, kind of right by converse logic. Also, there is, I think, a line in there where they say, oh, after you leave here, you'll be a whole new person. But of course, the reality is that people go on vacation and they don't want to. They want to be the same person. They think they want to have something new, but they actually want to go to the hotel and come home and go back to their house and be the same as they were. And that's the trap that most people would step into, I guess, if you were following the kind of like spiritual logic of the show. And then some people break out. Yeah, I wonder who it's going to be.

[Gia Tolentino]

And now we're so excited to be joined by Lisa Manibal and Tame Tap Tim Tong, who play our friends Mook and Gytok.

[Josh Bierman]

Welcome to the White Lotus Season 3 podcast, the Companion show to the series. It's nice to have you guys both.

[Tame Tap]

Thank you very much.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Thank you for having us.

[Tame Tap]

Thank you.

[Gia Tolentino]

We've been loving watching the season. I wanted to. So I wanted to ask you guys, you know, Mike White always casts people from the country, the place where he's shooting, you know, how did you guys feel in these roles as the primary Thai voices in the show? And what do you hope viewers sort of take away about Thailand?

[Tame Tap]

Well, you know, I very, very grateful and very honored to get to represent Thailand as an actor in this beautiful role that Mike White has written for us. I really hope that we represent how, you know, how sweet Thai people are because we try to make it as authentic as possible as, like Thai locals would be. You know, they're pretty conservative people, but they are emotional and they are sweet people, you know.

[Lalisa Manaval]

So, yeah, I'm just so grateful that they decide to do a season three in Thailand. So it's a chance for us to showing our culture to the world and I can't wait for them to watch this season.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

What's interesting to me watching it is that you guys have this lovely little romance, this courtship, but it's also both of the characters are very different from your real lives. Right. Like, you're international, you know, pop star and you come from a military background and, you know, where your character is sort of supposed to be like, unfamiliar with that world. And so what was that like? Sort of playing these two different types of people from yourselves who are then interacting with each other.

[Lalisa Manaval]

I think for me, like, only the job is different, but me, my personal me and Mook, I think were like, in common a lot. Yeah. Like, I didn't change. It's like she's ambitious. I'm ambitious as well. Like, she's nice, bubbly girl. Like, I'm like that. I'm like that day to day.

[Tame Tap]

And yeah, yeah, for me it was a challenge just to play a character that is very, very friendly, very shy. What I played before this was I always played almost like a bad guy all the time, so a bit more serious roles. But this was very, very refreshing for me because I actually found out that, you know, what actually I do have a lot in common with Gaitok because I am very shy around girls especially and so I could use just my own character in that. But yeah, I think the one that was one of the most challenging is being so unfamiliar with sort of like, oh, like, you know, when the thieves are trying to. Trying to leave and stuff. You know how I'm grabbing them, how I'm like, like just, you know, it's.

[Gia Tolentino]

You have to not know what you're doing.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah, I don't know what to do. Yeah. Cause otherwise I'd do it differently for sure.

[Josh Bierman]

Like he wanted to immediately disarm them and take them down.

[Gia Tolentino]

You could have secured that promotion to be a bodyguard, the international bodyguard.

[Tame Tap]

But it was fun. The challenge was. It was great. Yeah, I love it.

[Josh Bierman]

Sensitive side.

[Tame Tap]

I got to explore my sensitive side. I really enjoyed that.

[Gia Tolentino]

How did you guys, you know the romance from the very first scene when the motorbike breaks down and you're kind of making the joke like, give me 100 Baht or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it is truly such a sweet and lovely and like totally like, I was immediately invested from that. And I wonder if you guys can talk about the relationship. Like we start the show and your characters have clearly have had a slow, burning little flirtation for a bit now and are still moving very slow despite Gaituk's desire to make it move faster by saying your family already loves me, et cetera. But yeah, tell me about how you sort of together, sort of conceived with this relationship and kind of slow burning romance would be.

[Tame Tap]

I think from Guy Talk's point of view, he has been thinking about this for a while, you know, like sort of almost planning out how do I break this to her and should I? Because, you know, that's what all the hesitation at that lunch table was all about. Because I just felt like if I confess this to her, will this kind of backfire on me? And sort of, she might be like, whoa, like I, I did not think of you like that. You're like a brother to me or something and just completely ruined the relationship. But yeah, so I think, you know, the way I thought in my head is that I've been staying up all night thinking about this. Should I ask her to lunch tomorrow? And then after I've asked her lunch, probably sitting in my booth and like, how do I convince her that this is a good idea? Okay. Like our parents know each other. I'm.

[Lalisa Manaval]

He brought everything to like convince her.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

I mean, mook and Kaitok is like family friends since they were young, so they grew up together in the island. And I think Mook never thought of Kaitok in that romantic way. But when he confessed, she was like, oh, maybe like, okay, let's try it.

[Tame Tap]

Out, see what he can do.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Yeah, let's go on one day. Is he good enough for me?

[Tame Tap]

Yes, exactly.

[Josh Bierman]

It is kind of a forward move, though, because it's almost like a marriage proposal but before you've been on a date. Right. You're like, well, I've laid it out. Here's my case. Our families know each other, we work at the same place. Obviously we're meant to be together. Yeah, it's just kind of a. It's like there's. It's like a nervous energy was actually a very strong move kind of.

[Tame Tap]

I mean, I think it's close to how I am in real life sometimes, you know, that was the.

[Gia Tolentino]

You coming out.

[Tame Tap]

Something that could just be casual, like, hey, do you want to go on a date? I always make it such a big deal and sometimes I might make them a bit put off. And it's happened many times.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Aw, let's all talk about that.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

I wonder if y'all can talk about the. You know, these are sort of notoriously fun experiences for the cast, everyone on there together. I wonder if you can just talk a little bit about what the actual filming experience was like and how you maybe how the two of you supported and grounded each other as this, you know, like, important pair within the cast at large.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

For me, this is my acting debut, so I don't know what to expect on set, to be honest. And. And I super nervous on the first date with. With Tame as well. But Tame helped me a lot. And also Mike and our Thai producer as well. Like, everybody just being like such a supportive role for me.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

And I've really had a lot of fun while shooting.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, all the way from. From the cast dinner where we first met. It was just amazing like this, the whole experience, you know, like meeting all the actors I've seen in different movies and different shows before. And then Lisa coming in into the cast dinner, like, you know, she made quite an entrance.

[Gia Tolentino]

I was like, say more.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very nice. LV white dress. And then, you know, I was told by the producer that, oh, Lisa's here. 10, 10, 10, 10, come, come. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Sam Nivola]

Oh, my God.

[Tame Tap]

I don't know.

[Gia Tolentino]

Your girlfriend's here.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Your girlfriend's here.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tame Tap]

She was so Great. Because she. She broke the ice immediately. And, you know, we had a few drinks, and they sat us together for the dinner. And after that, it was just very, very smooth. And we would just have lunches together, dinners together, and just get to know each other and make the. Make the connection authentic, you know, because.

[Lalisa Manaval]

We have to be on set together a lot.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

I want people to really believe that we're friends since we were young.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

We did.

[Josh Bierman]

You feel it right away from the first encounter with the moped.

[Tame Tap]

Just how that. Just able to just kind of tease each other.

[Gia Tolentino]

How did you guys think about what each of these characters individually wants their life to look like in five years, 10 years? Like, did you have a sense of that? Does Gaitok want to be the bodyguard traveling internationally? You know, you were saying that Mook is ambitious, right? Like, where do they see themselves post White Lotus?

[Lalisa Manaval]

Well, I think they both ready to leave White Lotus if they have a better opportunity.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah. I think especially guy talk. I mean, I think he's in a little bit of denial. Like, you know, when she was. Oh, you know, look at those guys. They get to travel the world. They get good money. And I'm like, I like my job.

[Lalisa Manaval]

You know, watching the car.

[Tame Tap]

Yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

Watching kind of wander around.

[Tame Tap]

But I think deep, deep down inside, he did take that, what she said and, you know, really think about it, and he does slowly, I think, push himself more or at least try. So. Yeah. I mean, everything she says to him really has. Has a lot of weight on it. Yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Agree.

[Gia Tolentino]

Do you think that Mook wants to perform?

[Tame Tap]

Mooc all.

[Lalisa Manaval]

We love to perform.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah.

[Lalisa Manaval]

Yeah. If you. If you tell. Tell her to, like, oh, sing tonight.

[Gia Tolentino]

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[Lalisa Manaval]

She's ready.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah. She crushes it on stage. Well, thank you guys so much for talking to us. And we're loving the season.

[Tame Tap]

Thank you very much.

[Lalisa Manaval]

I love your voice. Just, like, so husky in there. I wish I could have that voice.

[Tame Tap]

Oh, yeah, you were talking about.

[Gia Tolentino]

I can't believe that I was just invited to join blackpink. Basically, I'm gonna start my intensive dance training tomorrow.

[Josh Bierman]

I thought you started this morning. You already started rehearsing.

[Gia Tolentino]

I started in preparation. Hope that she would say that to me. Okay, now to Sam Nivola, who plays Lachlan.

[Josh Bierman]

Here we have Sam Navola, who plays Lachlan Ratliff. Welcome to the White Lotus season three podcast. And nice to see you again.

[Sam Nivola]

It's nice to see you again, and nice to meet you. I'm very happy to be here.

[Gia Tolentino]

I want to Know what the casting notice was like? What was the description of Laki?

[Sam Nivola]

I remember him being described. God, I can't really remember exactly the description, but it was definitely, you know, something that I was used to being cast as. It was like, you know, virginal teen, really awkward. You know what I mean? I was like, God, this sounds nothing like me.

[Josh Bierman]

Don't pigeonhole me.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah, exactly. But it's funny, it was one of the most straightforward casting processes I've ever been a part of. I mean, I've done jobs where I've had to audition for half a year and do 15 callbacks, and every time they're like, it's getting a little bit closer. It's getting a little, you know. And this one, it was like I had sent in a tape. He was like, I love it, let's zoom. And then we zoomed and I read a scene, and then the next day he was like, I love you. Let's do it.

[Gia Tolentino]

You are the precise type of virginal teenager.

[Josh Bierman]

Exactly.

[Sam Nivola]

I was like, well, I'm flattered, but.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, you're like, are you sure I shouldn't play Saxon?

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Nivola]

I was like, I think I'm a little too muscly and masculine.

[Josh Bierman]

I feel more like a Saxon.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah, exactly. The only brutal part about it is that all of our callbacks. I spoke to Sarah, Catherine and Patrick about this too, were all the day after Christmas. So we just had the most stress ridden Christmases where we were just like shaking, waiting to do this thing. And then, of course, Mike is the nicest person in the world and it wound up being totally fine and we're stressing over nothing.

[Gia Tolentino]

Your character is presented from the beginning as like there are these two sort of poles in terms of the older siblings, in terms of Piper and Saxon, and they are on two kind of extremes in terms of aggression and gentleness, whatever you call it, message, femininity. Did you have a sense of the character as truly in the middle, truly not knowing where he was gonna land?

[Sam Nivola]

Well, I think that I, you know, I go episode to episode. I switch back and forth with my allegiances between my brother and my sister. And I really think it kind of actually has nothing to do with what they're preaching, with the lifestyles that they like to live. And which one I think is better. I think it's more about which one of you at any given time will make me feel loved and supported. And all my character wants, all Lachlan wants is a friend. You know what I mean? He's just a really, really Deeply insecure, lonely person that, like, oh, you're offering me some sort of affection or attention or love. I will do whatever you want for the next two days. You know what I mean? Oh, but then you're gonna offer it. I'll do whatever you want. You know, in a way, their two worldviews, to their own chagrin, hold no bearing on my choices in terms of which one of them I ally with.

[Josh Bierman]

Yeah, it's interesting. It's really well set up with the very first scene, getting to the villa where you're trying to decide which room to sleep. Are you gonna be a child still and sleep with your sister, or be an adult and follow the male lineage of the family. And the same with the decision with Chapel Hill and Duke, right?

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

Which way are you going?

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I relate to that whole thing a lot. I have a specific experience, which is that I dropped out of college to become an actor and I sort of forced myself to grow up really fast. And I was working professional jobs at the age of 17 and moved into my first apartment when I was 18, which are all amazing experiences that I'm incredibly lucky to have had the privilege to have. But it's. Yeah, it's like growing up a little too fast.

[Josh Bierman]

You chose adulthood over the extended adolescence of college.

[Sam Nivola]

Exactly. And I think there's pros and cons to that. I mean, I think the moral of my character's story is that either way, whatever you choose in life, whatever path you choose, you're gonna be fucked in some ways, and you're also gonna really enjoy it in some ways, and there's no right way. And that's kind of how I feel. I really enjoy the way my life is panning out right now, and I feel really lucky for it. But part of me is also like, man, I wish I had, like, tailgated at a college party, you know? And, yeah, I think everyone has a little bit of that push and pull. People wanna grow up too fast or they wanna stay a kid for too long.

[Gia Tolentino]

And here in New York, you can just have both for about three decades before anyone tells you otherwise. You know, we were talking about that. In each season, there has been a gentle boy, right? Like a gentle, moldable boy. Right. There's Quinn season one, then Alby season two, and now you. Yeah, I don't know. Did you, like. I mean, Lachlan is such a classic youngest.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

You know, totally. Was it fun to, I don't know, be the baby?

[Sam Nivola]

Be the baby? Yeah, it was totally fun. To be the baby. I mean, it's funny, you know, like, having Parker was always really, like, babying me in the scenes in a really sweet way. And it's honestly comforting to have some amazing actress playing your mother be really loving and kind to you, especially when you're so far away from your real mother.

[Gia Tolentino]

But there's like, some. The one time that you really see Lachlan assert himself is when Victoria is rude to Leslie Bibb. When Parker poses rude to Leslie Bibb.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

Yeah. And he's actually like, mom, what were you doing? Yeah. How do you understand their relationship, those two characters?

[Sam Nivola]

Those two characters? Well, I think Victoria is just incredibly threatened. Her whole dynamic of our family is that she thinks everyone wants something from us. We have money. She thinks everyone is a sort of leech, and that our family is this unbreakable unit and that everyone wants to fuck us over somehow.

[Gia Tolentino]

And. Yeah, and it felt like that moment was Lachlan kind of calling his mom out on, like, this is actually.

[Josh Bierman]

The defense mechanism is too. Is overwhelming.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just. And I totally know that feeling when it's like one of your parents says something embarrassing and you're just like, guys, just fucking cut it out.

[Josh Bierman]

That never goes away. I think, actually to the point you were making about the way that there's sort of not a judgment about the character and the choices that you make and things can go right or wrong and it's okay. I think that for me, kind of holds true for the show in general, that that's probably what it's about. Right. The show is very sympathetic to all the characters, even in their deepest mistakes.

[Sam Nivola]

Insanities. Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

And so I'm curious, is that something you felt coming from Mike as the show's being made?

[Sam Nivola]

Totally. I think you couldn't have said it better. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, the show was written by Mike. My interpretation of it is that the characters are all versions of him, I think, and they're all splintered, exaggerated, heightened parts of Mike's soul. And so I think, as a result, he really cares for all of them. And even if he writes them doing insane, fucked up, murderous things, there's still sort of a part of him that he cares for. And there's nothing worse than a movie with an anti hero that you just actually hate because it's just boring. And I think you can feel in the writing his love for all of the characters, even the most fucked up ones.

[Gia Tolentino]

You know, Lachlan is sort of obsessed with Tsunami videos. Definitely Something I relate to. What do you make of that? Is he afraid that something is gonna come undone?

[Sam Nivola]

I think definite. Ultimately, the tsunami video obsession is a sort of writer's tool by Mike to maybe tease some sort of disaster that the audience obviously knows is coming before even starting the show. Because that's the format of the show is something fucked up and crazy happens every season. And I think people that are obsessed with disasters are generally people who are really lost. Because the whole thing about these tsunami videos, at least for Lachlan, is that it highlights the sort of meaninglessness of life. And the whole thing is like, wow. Like, in a second, you know, I can't remember how many. I think it was, like, 270,000 people died in that tsunami, and it's completely traumatized the country, and there's still remnants of it today. That just highlights the fact that it can all go away in a second. And I think for someone like Lachlan, that needs to be the case, that life is meaningless because life is hard for him emotionally at least.

[Gia Tolentino]

Like, everyone in the family is aware that it could go away any second in very different ways.

[Sam Nivola]

Exactly. And that also plays into the whole thing of Timothy losing his money. And it's on different scales for everyone, whether it's like your whole city could actually be destroyed by a tsunami, or if it's like this way of life that you're so used to could go away in a second. And, like, what are our values, basically? And that's sort of the big question with our whole family, I think, is, like, do we value our way of life or do we value just life and the people around us or each other? Each other. Yeah.

[Gia Tolentino]

Sam, thank you so much for talking to us.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah.

[Josh Bierman]

Thanks for coming in.

[Sam Nivola]

Yeah. Well, this was so fun. You guys are really cool. I had a great time. Thank you.

[Gia Tolentino]

Thanks to our guests. Guests Tame and Lisa and Sam. And we'll see you all next week.

[Josh Bierman]

The White Lotus Podcast is a production of HBO and Campside Media. This episode was hosted by Gia Tolentino and Josh Bearman. Natalia Winkelman is the managing producer. Our associate producers are Allison Haney, Anthony Puchillo and Alia Papes. Sound design and mix by Ewan Leichmuyen at Campside Media. Our executive producer is Josh Dean for the HBO Podcast team. Our executive producer is Michael Gluckstadt, Senior producer Allison Cohen Zarokach, and producer Kenya Reyes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.

[Gia Tolentino]

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