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The Who What Wear Podcast
Live From the Sulwhasoo Skin Longevity Symposium! Featuring Cosmetic Chemist Ron Robinson and Beauty Expert Michelle Lee
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- [00:02]
A
This episode is brought to you by Sulwhasoo, the global leader in skin longevity. Powered by Ginseng. Their Concentrated Ginseng Rejuvenating Cream is a luxurious, clinically proven anti aging cream that helps reduce the look of wrinkles and improve skin elasticity. After just six weeks of use, 100% of women showed improvement in wrinkles, plumpness and skin barrier strength. With over 60 years of ginseng science, Sulwhasoo has transformed a heritage ingredient into one of the most advanced skincare technologies. Today find the Concentrated Ginseng rejuvenating cream@us.sulwhasu.com and sephora.com Please note the findings referenced are based on an instrumental test of 31 women with daily use welcome to the who what Wear? Podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors and tastemakers who are shaping the ever evolving world of fashion. I'm WHO whatwear Beauty Director Erin Johns and today we have a special episode for you. This past Monday, I was lucky enough to attend the Sulwhasoo Skin Longevity Symposium in New York. I'm sure you're familiar, but Sulwhasoo is a global luxury beauty brand rooted in Korean heritage and powered by 60 years of innovative research around a specific ingredient, ginseng. At the symposium, we were presented with the latest research results for the company's exclusively developed ingredients, and now we're going to share all of those findings with you. Right after the symposium wrapped up, I sat down with two of my favorite beauty experts to talk through what we learned. Ron Robinson, a veteran cosmetic chemist, founder of Beauty Stat, and advisor to Hailey Bieber's Road, and Michelle Lee, a beauty executive legend who was formerly editor in Chief at Allure and Nylon. We learned so much about the power of ginseng as a skincare ingredient, and I can't wait for you to hear. You can also watch this episode on YouTube at the link in the episode description. It's all coming up on Whoot Where Hi Ron and Michelle. Welcome to the pod. Hi.
- [02:19]
B
Thank you. Hey Erin.
- [02:20]
A
So to give our audience some context, the three of us just came from amorepacific Skin Longevity Symposium. Amore Pacific owns some of our favorite skincare brands like Sulwhasu and laneige. Sulwasu specifically is considered the crown jewel of the Amour Pacific portfolio, renowned for its heritage innovations and decades of ginseng research. So during the symposium, scientists from the Department of Dermatology at Johns Hopkins Medical School shared new findings on ginseng. And now we're here to talk through everything we Learned. So are you ready to dive in?
- [02:53]
B
Let's do it.
- [02:54]
C
Ready.
- [02:54]
A
So I had the opportunity to travel to Seoul last year, visit their labs and get up close and personal with the line and I've become obsessed. Sulwhasu is known as a pioneer in the study of Korean ginseng for over 60 years, which is their hero ingredient and a key driver in supporting skin longevity to start. What do you both think of when you hear the word skin longevity? Is this something you actively consider within your own skincare routines?
- [03:20]
B
Yeah, now more and more so, because it's not just about correction for me. It's how do I maintain my skin's health and how do I create this like lifespan with my skin. And I think consumers are gravitating towards the same thing. Would you, would you agree, Michelle?
- [03:35]
C
Absolutely. I think that I have been practicing skin longevity maybe without knowing it for about 10 years now. And so I started to really again in the past decade, start to reframe my skincare regimen as truly skin care regime. Right. Like care being bolded and like fully uppercase. Yeah. And I think a lot of Asian, you know, if you look at Japanese, but also specifically Korean skincare, the philosophy is very much that. I kind of equate it a lot of times to what's happened in healthcare and wellness here in this country as well, that when I was growing up, it was all about treating conditions and illnesses. Right. That you either can have surgery or you can use medications to treat an illness. But truly now we kind of have moved to this point in time where it's more about preventative wellness.
- [04:23]
B
Yes.
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C
And so I think of skin longevity in that similar way of again, like when I look to the east, I think that those philosophies have been around for quite a while and thankfully now it's here.
- [04:33]
B
Yeah. And to add to that, you think about consumers, how they're taking their vitamins and supplements for the same reason now they're doing that with their skin.
- [04:41]
A
So in both of your opinions, when should you begin thinking about skin longevity and incorporating products that support things like collagen production and skin elasticity?
- [04:49]
C
I mean, my opinion, I think that it depends on what we're talking about when it comes to skin longevity. Because I think that there are certain lifestyle factors, let's say, that play into that as well. Do I think that my five year old daughter needs to have a skincare regimen? Probably not. I would say that general lifestyle things of getting enough sleep, staying out of the sun too much, even at five years Old, I make sure that she's protected from the sun, that she wears sunscreen. If we really zoom out and think about skin longevity, that is certainly part of it. I would say also that my older two kids are in their teens, and then my son is 20. And so even at that age, again, do they need to have a full, like, skincare regimen? Probably not. But at that age, also, there are some inflammatory skin conditions that can happen, like acne, rosacea, other things. And so if we think about skin longevity as caring for your skin's health, those things are important at any age. But I would say, like, truly, to answer your question, I would say probably in your 30s and 40s is when it would be really important to get serious about skin longevity. I just turned 50 this year, and for me, I truly want to make sure that not necessarily that I'm trying to look like I'm 20, but just that I have the best skin that I can possibly have at 50.
- [06:02]
B
I agree with Michelle. I think it's the skin protection piece with protection from uv. And I think, of course, we have the Gen Alpha. Getting into skincare so early, they just need a basic cleanser, moisturizer, and sun protection. So I think if you're really into it, that's where you should start. But I agree, I think as we get into those 20s, 30s, 40s, we really should be thinking about longevity.
- [06:25]
A
Michelle, as someone who's worked in Beauty for over 25 years, I'm curious about your personal take on anti aging rhetoric today. How has the beauty industry's position on aging shifted over the years? And how do sulwhasoo and Korean beauty at large fit into that?
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C
Oh, Erin, I have so many thoughts for you. Okay, so adding a little bit of context, back in 2017, so almost 10 years ago, which is hard to believe, I was the editor in chief of Allure, and we very famously banned the term anti aging. We did a cover with the amazing Helen Mirren that said the end of anti aging. I wrote the COVID story. In my editor's letter, we talked about this is why we're doing this. At the time, it went further than I could ever have imagined. Like, we truly sparked a global conversation about aging. And so when I think about now, everything that's happened, like, it makes me so proud and, like, feel so great. The fact that we see so many more women over, I. I don't even wanna say, like, over 35. I would say over 50, 60, 70. In ad campaigns, on the Runway, celebrities, I see more women who are embracing Their grays. And I say women because truly our intention when we did that cover was about, let's really address how society, and we in general talk about aging really more about women, because I don't think necessarily that men face the exact same things, like, we are super hard on ourselves as women, and society is really hard on us. And so, again, like I said, I think now is everything perfect in the way that we talk about and think about aging? Absolutely not. But when I think about the past decade, we have made so much progress. And so it makes me really happy that brands like Sulwasu really put this emphasis more on skin longevity. Again, back then, we didn't have those words, and so we were talking about this focus on healthy skin. Like, let's not say anti aging, because we love aging like the opposite. We don't want that to happen. And so the fact that now we have this term to really lead us in a direction of more addressing the root cause of what is causing skin conditions and other things, I think that's a really important distinction of how we start to look at ourselves moving forward.
- [08:34]
A
Yeah, definitely.
- [08:35]
B
And I think, as you know, as a cosmetic chemist, I totally agree. I think Suasu is pioneering this idea of skin longevity and actually bringing it to life with great results. You know, we just came out of the symposium. I was blown away with some of the clinical results.
- [08:49]
A
Well, let's talk about the star of the show, ginseng. Ron, can you tell our listeners what ginseng is and why it's so special and what makes ginseng such a powerful ingredient in terms of skin longevity?
- [08:59]
B
Ginseng is a root plant that's been used in traditional medicine for literally centuries. It's known for its great benefits. What Sulwhasu has been able to do is they've been able to unlock the power and the potential of ginseng through this compound called compound K, which is showing fantastic results around skin longevity.
- [09:19]
A
It's one thing to use ginseng as an ingredient in a formulation, but what Sulwasu is doing is completely different because they figured out how to isolate the specific, specific saponin for anti aging found at ginseng, and then it's concentrated into their patented ingredient called ginsonomics through bioconversion technology. This innovation enhances the skin's ability to absorb more effectively. And, Ron, you've been able to isolate vitamin C in a way that's similar to how Sulwhasoo isolates ginseng, ensuring the ingredient remains potent and active for longer. Can you kind of walk us through how that isolation and concentration process works.
- [09:55]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. They've been able to use this bioconversion technology to really mimic the way ginseng, as we absorb it, as we ingest it into this compound that's able to deliver that active component of ginseng, compound K into the skin, actually 6,000 times more potent. It's really effective in terms of providing that skin longevity, skin rejuvenation. I was really impressed with it.
- [10:21]
A
Michelle, as our product expert, can you explain how a powerful ingredient like this can fit into your skincare routine and what effects people can, can expect to actually see?
- [10:29]
C
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Asian. You know, growing up, I think that most East Asian people have a different relationship with ginseng. Right. I grew up walking into Asian grocery stores and you always see like teas and tinctures and these big bottles of like ginseng inside. And so for my entire life, I think I've always known it as being an amazing medicinal herb. We know during the presentation today, there was this incredible moment where they were showing like just all the health benefits of ginseng. And I think the speaker talked about how it is actually probably the most beneficial medicinal herb in the entire world. Right. And it's like if you look at the full benefits of what it can do, it's. It's almost like this magical ingredient like you expect in Harry Potter. Like a cure all diabetes.
- [11:18]
B
Yes. Magic wand.
- [11:21]
C
Exactly. And so I think knowing that, it's not a surprise that things that are often great when they're ingested are also great for your skin. I think vitamin C is an excellent example of that. And so I think the wonderful thing about ginseng is unlike, let's say something like retinol, right. Where retinol is a little bit more finicky in terms of how you might actually use it. For example, I wouldn't use retinol during the day. Ginseng wonderfully has a lot of different applications and it can go in a lot of different types of products as well. So you could use it in an eye cream, a serum, a moisturizer in any number of ways. And so truly, after the talk today, I was saying I am going to bathe in ginseng.
- [12:00]
A
I think we all are.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah. And it's also impressive how they've been able to make it so bioavailable, meaning it's able to get into the skin and deliver on that skin rejuvenation benefit. So that was really impressive to me. I want to add about texture. What the scientists at Suasu have been able to do is really not just unlock the potential of ginseng, but also deliver it in a texture and a sensorial. That's really exciting. It really feels great on the skin. And I think when we think about consumers and how do we keep them compliant in their skincare, get them excited about it, I think the brand has really done that.
- [12:36]
C
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I love the fact that Sulwhasoo is so leaned into ginseng. You know, I was saying to the team earlier that I've been a big fan of their first care activating serum for a very long time. Right. I think I was like, watching something that I think they sell one bottle every 10 seconds. Like, this is a global, like, mega hit of a product. And so a couple of years ago, I saw that they had reformulated and that they changed it so that the hero ingredient is ginseng. And to me, that was very meaningful. That again, like, they are really doubling down on their belief that ginseng is a powerful, important ingredient. Because if you take this, like, kind of hero product that everyone loves already, it's always a risk, right. If you're changing the formulation, what if people don't like it? And so I also had that moment of being like, oh, my gosh, am I going to still like it the same? And then I tried it and it's. It's amazing.
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A
Yeah, we heard a lot about the relationship between inflammation and skin aging today. So what were both of your takeaways about that link? And was there anything new that you learned?
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C
Yeah, I mean, we've been hearing about inflammation and inflammaging for a while. Right. And even in terms of how I was saying the analogy between general wellness and also skin care, right. We. We see a lot of those same things happening. I think, Ron, you probably have a lot more sort of like, scientific things to say about it, but it's not surprising to me that inflammation is so tied to our skin. So I'll give an example. Six or seven years ago, I was in the south of France, and as you do in the south of France, you drink a lot of rose. And so I think I completely messed up my entire skin barrier because I was so inflamed. And again, it was something that was, like, happening internally that then it showed instantly on my skin. And so for weeks after that, I was dealing with this where I had this red, inflamed skin and like, truly, like red, angry, angry pustules. And so I've seen firsthand how this inflammation, like it's all kind of tied together. And so it's not super surprising to me, I guess that now science is really showing that link.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, looking at the data shared today, I think sawasa is really establish that link. You know, it's something that we always thought we, you know, we thought that there was this connection. But they have studies that actually show some of the aging things that are happening in the skin are happening in parts of our body as well. So certainly more research can be done, but I think they're on the brink of it. I think it's really exciting.
- [14:51]
A
Ron, can you give a little bit more of a specific definition of inflammaging to our listeners?
- [14:56]
B
Yes. So inflammaging is a chronic always on inflammation that our bodies and our skin face, which causes premature aging. So the brand Suasu has been able to really isolate the active form of ginseng in order to address inflammaging and actually treat and get at the root cause of inflammation in the skin.
- [15:20]
A
The keynote speaker today, Professor Se Wan Kong from John Hopkins Department of Dermatology, spoke about the importance of studying skin as an extension of overall health and wellness. And in my world as a beauty editor, we talk so much about skincare in relation to products and makeup. And I thought it was fascinating to reframe skin as an important indicator of what's happening inside your body. What were some of the findings about that connection that stuck out to both of you?
- [15:45]
C
We sometimes forget, even though we all talk about it, that skin is our largest organ. Right. It is truly our most visible organ. I think they even said that in the presentation, which kind of like stuck with me. To me, I always think of like your skin as like, it's like your check engine light. Right. Like if something's happening on your skin, for example, I'm jet lagged today. Right. I can see it instantly on my skin. My skin looks a little bit grayer. I just know myself. And so I love the fact that the researchers are really digging into what is actually scientifically happening to go behind that.
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B
They're connecting the dots.
- [16:16]
A
Yeah. We also heard about the importance of protecting your skin's immune balance today because as we know, our skin can be disrupted by the environment and things like dust and pollution, as well as lifestyle factors like lots of coffee, sleep deprivation, and sugary snacks for our listeners. What exactly does that mean when we say the skin barrier can get disrupted? What does that look like in Real life.
- [16:37]
B
I think it's a combination of all those factors, you know, adds to, you know, free radicals and damage in the skin, and that connection's been made. And again, with skincare like Suasu, I think they've been able to show that they've been able to correct a lot of that, of that damage.
- [16:53]
C
What I love is that, Aaron, I think as beauty editors, right, we talk about skin all the time, but we don't necessarily look at all of, like, the visuals. And so today, during the presentation, I actually love looking at some of those, like, visual illustrations or even, again, just like, true representations of what the layers of skin look like. And so obviously, the skin's barrier has been talked about quite a lot in the past couple of years. But actually seeing it and seeing how it is just a collection of cells that are connected by, like, a layer of lipids, and then seeing that layer of collagen and elastin under that, it makes you really think about all the words that we talk about all the time, right within our skincare. And you can see how certain things like sun damage can actually affect all of those different layers. And so when we talk about that skin barrier being disrupted, it's like your armor, right? So if we have your armor and you do any number of things, whether it's, you know, environmental factors like pollution, maybe it is not getting enough sleep, maybe it's too much sun exposure. Disrupting and damaging that barrier means that suddenly everything that's below that and that's that layer of collagen and elastin also has less protection. And so as we get older, as time progresses, that collagen, right, we talk about all the time, like, we want to be able to, like, boost our collagen. If we're not doing things that can prevent that damage, we are actually doing a lot more harm.
- [18:17]
B
And, you know, think about skin. What's its major function? It's to protect us from the external. If you're poking holes through these environmental conditions that are harsh and not protecting the skin, you're going to get damage and you're going to show, you know, premature signs of aging.
- [18:31]
A
There are plenty of things we can do to prevent or help slow down signs of aging. But something that I found incredible was that the researchers have developed a skincare ingredient extracted from camellia seeds and that has been shown to actually reverse the decline of aging skin cells by inducing the production of collagen fiber. This is called camellia bioflavonoid. The trial results were impressive. Even as early as Eight weeks. Ron, can you share a bit about how topical application of this product can improve signs of aging?
- [19:00]
B
Yes. This is a phytochemical, and I was really impressed with what they've done with this ingredient. They've incorporated it into a fantastic formula. And in a placebo study in just eight weeks, panelists saw a significant improvement in texture and luminosity. So that's really showing the power of this ingredient.
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C
So the thing I loved about that whole presentation with the camellia also was we were talking about it after. It was this idea of senescence.
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B
Yes.
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C
Which was a word that I actually was not familiar with before, which is this idea that your skin cells kind of lay dormant sometimes. They don't just die, but they are like zombie cells. They're like Sleeping Beauty.
- [19:37]
A
Right.
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C
They're just kind of there, still alive, but really not serving any purpose. And the fact that this camellia bioflavonoid can actually help to rejuvenate those cells. It's fascinating.
- [19:49]
B
Totally. And think about what the skin cells are supposed to be doing. It's supposed to be 28 days. Your skin cells are supposed to be getting older and older. Then they die and flake off. And that gives you new, fresh skin cells underneath. When the skin cell is senescent and it just freezes and sleeps and doesn't do anything, it's not doing anything to help, you know, except for giving you this. These signs of aging.
- [20:13]
A
Right. For our listeners who are interested in updating the routines to set themselves up for a lifetime of skin longevity, what are some practical tips that you would give them?
- [20:22]
C
Oh, well, kind of what I was saying, I guess, in the beginning, you know, for sure, use ginseng, and you can incorporate it in any number of different ways into your routine. I would say, if you are just kind of testing it out initially, I love a serum. I think it's an easy way to do things where, you know, at minimum, you need a gentle cleanser, use a serum. You can use whatever moisturizer you want to, and then use a sunscreen, like, you know, protect your skin. I would say, though, for skin longevity, thinking about your overall health is really important that our skin cells, as I talked about today, everything is interrelated that you can see some of the damage that's been done on skin cells is reflected then in some of your body cells. And so if we think about sleeping well, de stress, which is hard to do, eating well, staying out of the sun too much, like, it's good to get a little bit of sun, but like, don't overdo it. There's not much we can do about some of the things. Right. Like pollution or there was some talk in the presentation about micro particles. I'm not quite sure if we can, you know, do away with that, unfortunately. But I think there's a lot of lifestyle factors also that we can really address.
- [21:28]
A
Of all the findings we heard today, and there were many, what was something that surprised you or changed your approach to skincare moving forward?
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B
I think, like Michelle, I think now seeing this data around ginseng and what the brand has been able to do, it's really interesting.
- [21:43]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I think it's really exciting. So I think, you know, my big takeaway, again, this is another ingredient that this brand has been able to unlock in a significant way that is really delivering both benefits in terms of treating the skin, but also more importantly, delivering on that skin longevity, which consumers are really interested in right now.
- [22:04]
C
Obviously, this is so much more of Ron's world. Right. And so for me to sort of ingest everything. I agree that just seeing how much work and how much effort and truly 60 years of research into ginseng, I think, Erin, again, like, we hear all the time as beauty editors about skincare science and innovation and other things. And yes, some of it is valid and some of it is not, but when you actually really see all of the hard work and research that went into everything, I've known for a long time that ginseng is an amazing ingredient. But the fact that they then have merged a traditional ingredient with truly modern science to extract the highest potency of that ingredient and to really make it special, like I said, I am going to be bathing in it.
- [22:50]
B
Totally agree.
- [22:51]
A
Thank you for being on the pod. Ron and Michelle, thanks for having us.
- [22:54]
B
Thank you for having us.
- [23:01]
A
A huge thank you to cosmetic chemist Ron Robinson and beauty expert Michelle Lee. Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, I'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us. If you have guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a line at podcastoowhatware.com or you can find us on Socialare. See you next Wednesday on the who what Where? Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our editor is Koh Takasugi Chernovin. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy. Thanks again to Sulwhasoo for supporting today's show. Their iconic Concentrated Ginseng Rejuvenating cream has been Korea's number one anti aging cream cream for 10 years running and for good reason. Powered by Ginsonomics by patented Ginseng Extract and Ginseng Peptide, it helps smooth the look of fine lines, restore plumpness and strengthen skin. If you want a cream that combines the luxury of heritage with the results of modern science, this is the one to try. Discover Skin Longevity Powered by ginseng. Available at us.suwasu.com and sephora.com Please note the findings referenced are based on an instrumental test of 31 women with daily use. The Concentrated Ginseng Rejuvenating cream status as Korea's number one anti aging cream is based on cumulative sales in Korea during the period from 2015 to Q1 of 2024 as conducted by Bute Research.