← The Who What Wear Podcast
The Who What Wear Podcast
Nobody Wants This Costume Designer Negar Ali Kline on Portraying Authentic L.A. Style and Where to Shop the Characters’ Wardrobes
00:30:52
Loading summary
Transcript84 lines
- [00:00]
A
How many times have you wished you could be in two places at once? With wix, you practically can. Wix's website builder is packed with powerful AI tools to make running your business online easier. Build a full site just by talking with AI, get an AI agent to manage your sales and marketing, or work like a 10 person team, even if it's just you. So you don't need superpowers to get everything done, you just need Wix. Try it out for yourself@wix.com.
- [00:38]
B
Welcome to the who what Wear? Podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors and taste makers who are shaping the ever evolving world of fashion. I'm who what Wears? Co Founder and Chief Content Officer Hilary Kerr and and today on the podcast I'm joined by costume designer Negar Ali Klein. Negar's most recent work can be seen on the hit Netflix rom com Nobody Wants this, which just dropped its second season. The show follows the hilarious love story of Joanne, who is an agnostic sex podcaster played by Kristen Bell, and Noah, who is a hot rabbi played by Adam Brody. Negar tells us what drew her to the show and how she selected some of the hero pieces we saw in both seasons, from Joanne's vintage chinchilla faux fur coat in the pilot to her new arrivals dress in the season two finale.
- [01:34]
A
Yes, we go all the way to.
- [01:36]
B
The finale, so spoiler alert. Plus Negar talks about how she enlisted local designers and boutiques like Reformation and Loho Bride to pay homage to Los Angeles rich style history. It's all coming up on who, what Where. So I have to start by saying that I am truly so excited to talk about season two of Nobody Wants this. I have seen the entire thing. It is an absolute dream show. I love your work on it. But before we get into season two, can we talk a little bit about your background and how you fell in love with fashion and how did you land in the very interesting and specific world of costume design?
- [02:27]
A
Well, it's so great to hear that you love the show and I'm so happy to be here. I fell in love with fashion. Well, rather style. It was something that I guess I grew up with in the atmosphere. My parents immigrated to the states in the 70s and they had, you know, a European sensibility. They dressed really well. My grandparents dressed really well. I'm an and I remember my parents hosting parties where everyone was dressed really glamorously. I mean, this is the 80s, right? So you can imagine shoulder pads, shoulder pads, sequins, jewelry, you know, this Dynasty Taffeta. And I've always been obsessed with pop culture. So this was the time of Madonna and Cyndi Lauper and Prince. And so I think this informed me, But I never thought to seek a career in fashion. I was going to college and I started working for Paper magazine. And I was an assistant to the publisher. Yes, to Kim Hastrider.
- [03:27]
B
Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. What a legendary project to work on.
- [03:31]
A
And, you know, this is like late 90s. And it was just a very cool place to be. And these great contributing fashion editors were coming through and they started asking me to assist them on their shoots. And so I just kind of fell into that. And it was a time where it was just about fashion editors. The role of a stylist wasn't widely known. So I graduated college and I was going off on a trip to Europe. At that time, there were these magazines, they were called Production411 or something, where they would list their active productions. And I remember reading about Spike Lee was gonna make a film called Summer of Sam. It was the 1970s, based on the serial killer Son of Sam. And I thought, hmm, that sounds pretty cool. So I was cold calling the production offices to inquire, like, can I come work in the costume department? I was in Prague and I was on a payphone. I had called so many times, so I guess they probably had heard this girl keeps calling. They finally put me through, and I spoke to the wardrobe supervisor. Her name was Jordana Feinberg. And she said, you know, you could come in and intern for us. Once I got back to New York a few days later, I was on set on a night shoot. We were shooting a Studio 54 scene.
- [04:48]
B
Oh, my God.
- [04:49]
A
I was dressing background. It was like 3 o' clock in the morning and we're on set. And I was just thinking to myself, is there anything I'd rather be doing than this? And it was just like such a clarifying moment for me that this is exactly what I wanted to do. So.
- [05:03]
B
What a beautiful start to things. So dressing background, that means you're responsible for a ton of people, I would imagine. Like, that is volume dressing. How equipped did you feel to do that? I feel like it's one thing to dress oneself, it's a different thing to dress bodies that are totally different from you taste, that's different from your own, all of that stuff. So how did you upskill yourself in that way?
- [05:26]
A
Yeah, I think in that moment I was just learning. Right. But I think they just felt my enthusiasm. I was so excited to be there, and I was just happy to do anything that they asked me to do. So I was just absorbing everything you knew. I was assisting Ruth Carter, the legend. The legendary Ruth Carter was. She costume designed Summer of Sam and she was working with Mir Sorvino in that movie. And I just thought she was amazing. So since then, I've gone on to work in sort of every facet of my field. So I moved back to LA and started working in music styling. Did that for a very long time, celebrity styling. I learned so much. In those days, you can anticipate only so much, but then you're just problem solving on the spot. Long, long hours. I mean, worked on music videos. And this is before they were, like, unionized. So, yes, we were working like 24 hours straight. And it was a time for sure. But I learned a lot that I apply every day. And it's really those hard, challenging jobs where you learn the most. And then I started designing independent films. I think that's kind of unique because some of the skill set translates going from commercial and celebrity styling to costume design. But I've always loved straddling both worlds and I do think one informs the other for me.
- [06:51]
B
Talk to me about working on season one of Nobody Wants Us. How did you get connected with Aaron, who's the creator, and what drew you to the story? Because obviously it's a huge monster hit now that we're all in love with. But to see the opportunity in it and the heart in it early on, just from the page, that's its own skill set. So walk me through how you got connected with the show for season one.
- [07:20]
A
At the time it was called Shiksa, actually, But I read about Nobody Wants this. I think I read about it in Deadline and I thought, wow, this sounds cool. I was familiar with Aaron and I knew one of the eps. So I reached out to Ollie Opes and I asked if I could read the script. He sent it to me. It was just one of the smartest. It was so funny, witty. Erin's writing, her banter is just of the time. She just created this world. Each character was so fully realized in the pilot episode, knew exactly who they were. Just so rare. I was obsessed. Like, I have to do this. I felt immediately like even in the location descriptions, like, I knew all the locations. I knew this world. I was so familiar with it. And I thought, I really feel like I have to do this. So I got a meeting. But again, similar to that, like, tenacity, I reached out to friends that we had in Common to just let Erin know that I was very keen on working on this with her because it was just so good. I think she has this very unique voice that really speaks to not just women, because so many men that I meet, they're like, I love the show. So I don't want to call it girl humor, because it's not. But it really hits a. She's got her finger on it.
- [08:40]
B
They're very realized characters.
- [08:42]
A
I loved her characters. Like, I fell in love with Joanne. I just thought I could relate to her.
- [08:46]
B
So it's wild watching season one. She felt like part of my friend group or myself. Like, it really was such an immediate connection. And also, it doesn't feel like a story that you've seen before or characters that you've seen before. So one of the things that I really love about it is it feels like LA contains multitudes. So I'm not saying it's representative of all of la, but it's very authentically its own version of la. And the style in it is very specifically, like, I know that woman. I know where she shops. I get the taste. All of it. As an Angelino, I'm wondering how you approached those initial mood boards when you were in the process of interviewing for the job or first starting. Obviously, there's certain things that are always written in. A song might be written in a location. Were there fashion pieces written into the scripts? Or did you have total freedom to pull from whatever people you knew, muses, people you saw on the street? Whatever it may be, the way I.
- [09:46]
A
Approach early mood boards is that I'm trying to convey an approach to the character versus literal outfits. Right. So in that first meeting, it just felt like Erin and I were naturally aligned in the way that we saw Joanne. For me, it was really important that she had this versatility in her style. She understands putting herself together in a specific way for the environment that she's gonna find herself in. The way she dresses for a Spotify meeting with executives is different from the way she dresses to go to a basketball game as a wag or versus how she dresses to meet the parents. Right. She can use style as armor. She can use style to garner attention when she wants attention, as in the fur coat scene. The fur coat scene was scripted, and Aaron and I talked about that because it was actually hard to find that coat because we didn't want it to be jokey. Right. Like, she still looked chic, like she could walk into the dinner and look cool. So it's more rather a way she approaches Dressing herself like she understands the power of style, and she's just effortlessly cool. Keeping Aaron in mind, this is loosely based on her life. So not every outfit is something that necessarily Aaron would wear. Right. But that spirit, the essence of Aaron, if you will, is definitely alive in the character.
- [11:09]
B
So I also love how Kristen Bell's character, Joanne, expertly mixes high and low pieces in a way that feels like the way that real women dress and rewears certain pieces, whether that's a cape belt or a by far bag, or has, like an everyday jewelry stack. Talk to me about how you built some of these everyday key pieces, because we all have those pieces that we lean on in our wardrobe, but that's not something that I see depicted on a regular basis in this way. So we walk me through how you land on it and then how you apply it throughout. So it doesn't feel repetitive, but it still feels like she's actually getting dressed from a real closet.
- [11:45]
A
Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, that's how women dress. Right. We have our jewelry that oftentimes I sleep in my necklaces or my little huggy hoops. So that was important. I wanted her to feel grounded and real, so that was intentional. And that she would have jewelry that she would repeat throughout the season. Maybe she'll add a piece, take off a piece. But we landed on her layers, her stack, and wanted to keep that consistent, similar to her belts and her handbags even. So we wanted her to rewear those pieces even though we knew that the outfits would change. These were things that she was pulling from a closet.
- [12:20]
B
So when you're starting the initial project, are you pulling together these are brands that she wears, or these are silhouettes that she wears, or this is her color palette. She never wears this. She loves this. Or what is your strategy for making some of those products? Points of differentiation between, say, Kristen Bell's character and Justine's character, Morgan, as sisters, where you feel like there's going to be some overlap, but their journeys are different. And that's part of the tension of the season, which I think is so fun. But I'm curious about how you approach that from a strategic point of view.
- [12:52]
A
Yes, exactly. They're stealing from each other's closets. So there was definitely an overlap. I tried to vary their silhouettes. You'll see Morgan in more sort of oversized outerwear or miniskirts, shorts. Early on, I sort of had these rules about what the Rocklaw family colors would be and what Joanne and Morgan's world would be. So the Rocklaws were jewel tones and these rich colors. And Morgan and Joanne's side had more of, like, the pastels and the poppy colors just to make this distinction between the two worlds. But now that sort of has blurred a bit more in season two, but definitely trying to hone in on their personality and convey that in silhouette and in color. Joanne is a bit more controlled in the way that she dresses. She's a bit more tailored, so definitely making those distinctions, while at the same time, they should feel like very much a duo and also that they share references, They've shared a childhood, so there's this common sort of ground that they have.
- [13:53]
B
So Joanne doesn't have a uniform per se, but she has an impressive collection of knitwear and button downs and denim. What are some of the brands that you looked for when you were putting together some of these wardrobe staples, Joanne?
- [14:10]
A
I mean, we're always looking for jeans and a cute top, which is harder to find than you think. I mean, jeans, we look at all the brands, right? We use redone. We use a gold. We used a lot of vintage Levi's this season, actually, and then tops this season. We looked at Kalmire. We have another Abercrombie top. So we look at all the brands for Joanne, like, nothing's off the table for sure. I think that she knows what looks good on her, she knows what's flattering, and she leans into that.
- [14:39]
B
So I also want to talk about Joanne's sister, Morgan. I think she's so talented. Justine is just like everything to me on every level. She has such a breakout season. I feel like season two is just on a whole new level for her. What were some of the things that you were thinking about in season two as, like, the Morgan evolution? And now, as we all know, Justine was pregnant for most of season one, Season two, now she has a baby in real life, so you're not dressing to accommodate in that way. So how did that journey change things both from a style standpoint and then also from a character standpoint?
- [15:16]
A
Yeah, for season one, we were thinking about concealing the bump. So it was.
- [15:21]
B
Which you did a beautiful job of.
- [15:22]
A
Oh, thank you. It was oversized bomber jacket. So this season, when she came in for her first fitting, it was like, the gloves are off. Let's go. I was stuck on that idea of her wearing those micro shorts for the first episode. Not only was it like, she comes to the door and she's being provocative and irreverent, but I think it also kind of signaled like, Joanne here has planned this perfect dinner party. And it was the first sign of, like, this isn't gonna go exactly the way you thought.
- [15:51]
B
Just stirring the pot right from the entrance.
- [15:54]
A
Exactly. This season with Morgan, we were able to do so much more her arc and journey. So spoiler alert. This season, she has her own love interest, and we get into, later on in the season, her engagement. It's kind of a big season for Morgan.
- [16:11]
B
The character was so developed and so funny and just, like, the perfect foil to her sister. I feel like the show is so much about their relationship and their love story together as best friends and everything that goes along with that. So I also want to talk about the wedding dress shopping scene, which was hysterical. How did you pick the right dresses for that moment? And were you shooting in an actual bridal boutique?
- [16:34]
A
We were, actually. When I read that episode, I thought, how cool would it be if we could shoot at Loho Bride, which, for.
- [16:41]
B
Anyone who doesn't know, is like, a very beloved boutique. I think our editor in chief for who, what, where got her wedding dress there. Like, it is the cool girl style.
- [16:49]
A
Yes. That's where all the fashion girls would go if they're getting married. So we knew she would have all the right gowns. And it was great that we got to shoot there. And Christy was amazing. So we pulled our hero gowns from her. She has, like, Vivienne Westwood and Danielle Frankel, and it was great to be able to do that.
- [17:06]
B
Okay, so I also want to talk about the fellas as well. So Adam Brody's character, Noah, he has such a cozy aesthetic, which I love. And I read that you didn't use any synthetic fabric with him, which I thought was really clever. So his wardrobe feels so warm and inviting. So walk me through his closet a little bit. Where did you shop for him? What were key words that you had in mind when you were crafting his wardrobe?
- [17:33]
A
Noah. He's going through an existential crisis. We pick up the season shortly after where we left off. He's in love. He's found this woman that he's really into, but everything hangs in the balance for him. And then he learns that he didn't get this job that he's prepared his entire life for, basically. And so for him, those first few episodes, I thought, well, he's probably really stressed out. He's probably not sleeping at night. He has a lot on his mind, so he's not really thinking about how he's getting dressed. So we find him in a lot of vintage Levi's and T shirts or double RL button down shirts that he just throws over a T shirt. And. And so this was like unemployed Noah, right?
- [18:14]
B
Yeah.
- [18:15]
A
And then he joins this progressive synagogue. So we see him try and ingratiate himself into this new environment. Maybe he's dressing a little bit outside of his comfort zone. And now he's wearing that striped polo or Todd Snyder, you know, incorporating more color, trying to look cool so that he can fit in. And we wanted to make sure that even if it's very nuanced with Noah, because we're not making big style statements with Noah, you know, that you are experiencing the shift in him visually.
- [18:46]
B
I also love. So Noah's brother Sasha has such phenomenal style, and it is so distinctly different from his brother. There is no Venn diagram overlap. So walk me through how you thought through Sasha's wardrobe, especially because again, spoiler alert. Hopefully most people have watched it at this point in time. Sasha has a very challenged season as well, going through a lot of stuff with his amazing wife, Esther. But talk to me about Sasha's wardrobe, because it's just hysterical. Like, I love his Marnie T shirt. I love all the jackets. I love that he loves fashion so much.
- [19:19]
A
Well, Sasha, I felt like we know this guy in la, right? Like, he has the designer hoodies, he has the limited edition sneakers.
- [19:26]
B
He's a little hype beastie.
- [19:27]
A
It's a little hypebeast. You know, it's sportswear. But it also shows his wealth that he's flossing a bit. And it's more playful. It's super playful. I mean, he's so funny. Tim. One of the lines in the first episode, I think for me was really telling. He says, oh, well, you want to go take some gummies, you know, after temple? And we thought, well, this guy isn't taking anything seriously. Like, he's just having a good time. So we really leaned into that and he came into his fitting and Tim has talked about this, and we had like a rack of oversized hoodies and he was just like, oh, my God, I get it now. This is the guy. It was really fun to create that character with Tim in the first season, he talks about being the loser sibling. He's kind of a man child, and I think the hoodies kind of play into that to say he's still, like, holding on to this version of himself. But then in season two, we wanted there to be this shift. He went to his father for this new position, and so he wants to be taken more seriously. So he's wearing, like, beautiful sweaters from elder statesmen. He's still doing his, like, colorful things, but.
- [20:36]
B
But, like, that's fancy.
- [20:37]
A
It's fancy. It's a little elevated now. Yeah. So, yeah, we get to have a lot of fun with Tim, you know, especially with, like, his footwear. And now he's really gotten into it. Yeah. And then in contrast to Esther, who.
- [20:52]
B
Also has a bit of a transformation this season and was a lot more buttoned up and a lot more black in season one and then has, like, hair transformation, has color. Transformation really changes in season two, I.
- [21:06]
A
Would say Esther has. Of all the characters, as far as the style goes, she has the most dramatic transformation. Because when we first see her, you know, it's a week after the Bat Mitzvah, we always put Esther in, like, these higher collars, and she's pretty tailored and buttoned up. So you see her, she's still in her Roclav red.
- [21:27]
B
Modest.
- [21:27]
A
Yes. And she's got the high collar. And then progressively her neckline gets lower and she starts incorporating color.
- [21:35]
B
One shoulder comes out for one. Girls dinner.
- [21:39]
A
And one of my favorite costumes was that NSYNC T shirt that she wears at home, because I thought that said so much about, like, maybe who she used to be. Like, she still has this old T shirt in her wardrobe. Like, we all do that we put on when we're cozy at home. And that she kind of lost herself a bit in becoming a mom, and she was trying to come back to herself. Something that I kept thinking about was that when Joanne came into Noah's life, it was very disruptive, but it was disruptive for everyone else, too. Like, for Esther, she met this woman who's unapologetically herself. She gets to say what she wants, do what she wants. And Esther.
- [22:18]
B
The rules don't apply. In the same way, the rules don't apply.
- [22:20]
A
And Esther's done everything right her entire life, and then now she's like, wait, wait a second. Hold on. Let me, like, take stock of what's going on. Maybe she hasn't done that in a while. So I thought that Joanne maybe was the catalyst to this, even if it was subconscious.
- [22:36]
B
And I think Esther's relationship with Morgan, too, in both cases, it's like she was repelled by the sisters at first and then taken in and almost ended up liking them. And it feels like Joanne and Morgan have stirred everyone up in an interesting way and maybe unlock them to try some things that are outside their comfort zone with wardrobe and in life in general.
- [22:59]
A
That's exactly it. I think we can say there's always been like, people that have come in our lives that have like, inspired us or have like changed our point of view, let's say.
- [23:08]
B
Cause it's not same same anymore.
- [23:10]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
- [23:11]
B
So I have to ask about the finale episode and specifically, what is Joanne's dress? Because that fit is so insane. How is that dress laying so beautifully, so flawlessly? So how did you land on that dress?
- [23:31]
A
Okay, well, kb, she looks great in all things. I mean, I have to say that helps. So let's just start with that. But I just needed to line it because it was quite sheer. It was one of those dresses that we landed on very last minute. Actually, I was really nervous about that dress because we landed on it late on a Friday and it was shooting like first thing Monday morning. I think we got it lined over the weekend. Made it to ISW with like 2 minutes to spare to buy lining. It was really one of those things. It's a brand called New Arrivals.
- [23:58]
B
Oh, yeah. That's amazing.
- [24:01]
A
And this season, Jenni Connor, our showrunner, it's Aaron and Jenny and myself and, you know, just like women making these decisions about what women wear, which shouldn't be a unique thing, you would think, but it actually is, which makes this even that much more of a special project. And it was like an immediate yes to that dress. KB has incredible instincts. I mean, she's such a veteran in making television that she just knows what's going to work.
- [24:31]
B
For anyone who's listening who hasn't seen it, it's a high neck halter dress that then is basically backless. And the way it lays, like, there's no puckering, there's no gap. How did you get it to fit? Fits so beautifully. Because it's very daring and it's beautiful and it just looks like it was made for her.
- [24:48]
A
That's so nice to hear. Yeah, we're really big fans of those Silicon pasties.
- [24:54]
B
Yes.
- [24:54]
A
So we use a ton of those and we go through those like hotcakes. So those were definitely in play. We were shooting on the roof of the Motion Picture Academy and it was quite cold. So there was definitely some warming layers underneath that dress too. Although you wouldn't know. We have great team on set dressers that make sure things just stay put.
- [25:17]
B
Also talk to me about Justine's dress in that AKA Morgan, because I'm curious why that silhouette? Why that particular dress?
- [25:26]
A
Okay, so we custom made that dress similar to last year's. She also wore a custom dress for the Bat Mitzvah finale episode. So this one I custom made with favorite daughter. Oh, no way. And so they were able to do it again. Television, our timelines are so tight, so they were able to push it out in, like, a really quick contracted timeline. The cool thing is you can buy that dress now. That's part of the collection, so.
- [25:52]
B
Oh, that's amazing.
- [25:55]
A
It's a very flattering dress. That silhouette is universally flattering. Like, you can put that dress on 10 different women with very different body types, and that dress works. That's always a dress I like to have on my racks. Especially, like, in initial fittings when you're not quite sure of the silhouette yet, because that silhouette is always a home run.
- [26:14]
B
Wait, I just realized we can't go without talking about Leighton Meester.
- [26:17]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [26:18]
B
She has such an amazing guest star appearance as a mommy influencer and ex frenemy of Joanne and Morgan's. She's also, for anyone who doesn't know Adam Brody's wife in real life, talk to me about how you landed on her set.
- [26:34]
A
Yeah, so when I read that episode, it was written that she was a successful mommy influencer with, like, lots of followers. I thought, well, naturally, she would be a brand ambassador.
- [26:44]
B
Yeah.
- [26:45]
A
And so then when we found that Chanel that was in the pastel, it just felt ripe for, like, a baby naming event.
- [26:51]
B
And what a name it is.
- [26:53]
A
What a name. You could see the Instagram posts of that day. But also, Joanne shows up, and I wanted her to embody this enviable woman with this big house and her Chanel outfit. Cause that was the tension between them. Right. Like, they were frenemies, and so definitely wanted to play into that. That's how that came to be.
- [27:13]
B
I love it. So of all of the moments on season two, do you have any specific looks from any of the characters that you just really feel like? Yes, that is it. That is one of my favorite looks.
- [27:25]
A
You know, I would say I really love the vintage moments on Joanne. We use a lot of, like, vintage sportswear, like sweatshirts and ringer T shirts. There was, like, this gray vintage T shirt that we use with, like, sweatpants that she's, like, spiraling out in. I really just love that outfit. I remember when I got sent the establishing photo, I was like, oh, there's like, this energy to her, and I hope that is conveyed in her clothing. And with Morgan, I would say probably the argyle knit sweater with the wales bonner Adidas pants is one of my favorite outfits. With Morgan, we put things together in a way that are maybe a little bit More unexpected. I've always loved knit vest, so I'm very glad that they're on trend now. But I've loved them for such a long time, so there's so many. But yeah, I love all the vintage sweatshirts. I love the kalmier that we use on Joanne. I love Bina's costumes. Those are some of my favorite costumes. She's so fun to dress.
- [28:23]
B
So how far in advance do you think about what fashion moments you would manifest for these characters? Brands that are on your wish list, pieces that are on your wish list when season three happens, like, what's on your short list of, oh, it would be really great if we could get X.
- [28:39]
A
One of the things that has come up in fittings with Joanne is she'll put something on and sometimes it's a bit too posh. There was a Tom Ford jumpsuit that she tried on this last season because we are trying to think about, like, sure, she's shopping at the RealReal and she's getting gifted things through PR and all these things, but really, where did this outfit come from? Cause now people are like, IDing it and being like, no way would she ever wear. So I always say, like, let's save that for after they get their Spotify deal. You know, they talk about it in the first episode, like, oh, what about the call her daddy $60 million deal? Or whatever. I think about manifesting that for them and seeing how that would affect the way they dress. In terms of brands, historically, there was never really this inclination brands loaning for TV or film, they were just really keen on. First it was like, celebrity and then doing, like, street style. But TV and film really wasn't on their radar. Now I think that has changed.
- [29:34]
B
That's changed.
- [29:35]
A
That's changed. Which is so nice. And brands are more keen on working on shows, and I don't know exactly which brands, but hopefully season three will be able to create some magic.
- [29:48]
B
You've done it twice so far. I have no doubt that season three will just be another wonderful extension of all of that. This is such a treat. I'm such a fan of your work. I love the show. Thank you for making my day a little bit better and for making all of our lives better by just your incredible work on screen. So thank you.
- [30:06]
A
That's really nice. Thank you so, so much. This was so.
- [30:16]
B
A huge thank you to costume designer Negar Ali Klein. Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there. I'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us. If you have any guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a line at Podcast who what Where? Or you can find us on social at WhoWhatWere. See you next Wednesday on the who what Where Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our editor is Co Takasuki Chernovin. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio and our music is by Jonathan Leahy. When you've got too many ideas and too little time, that's when you need wix for your website. Wix helps business owners like you and me get more done without burning out. It's packed with AI tools that actually make running your business online easier. Build a full site just by talking with AI, get an AI agent to manage your sales and marketing, or work like a 10 person team even if it's just you. Try it for yourself@wix.com.