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The Who What Wear Podcast
Wicked Costume Designer Paul Tazewell Talks Glinda’s Bubble Dress, Elphaba’s Style Evolution, and the Visual Language of Oz
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- [00:02]
Kat Collings
Thank you to ebay for sponsoring this episode. This is what you do. When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like an iconic Dior saddle bag or that diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that will never disappoint. Expertly authenticated and everything. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace or brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be besties with your other handb. Even an eternally classic watch like that Rolex oyster or that Cartier tank. You know the one. And when you find it, ebay has their expert's eyes to make sure you're getting the real deal. That way you can be confident that the designer finds you came for the luxury wardrobe that you've always wanted. It's all real. In fact, it's verified authentic. So bring your high standards and never limit what you can find. Yeah, ebay. The place for new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion. Ebay things people love. Welcome to the who what Where? Podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors and tastemakers who are shaping the ever evolving world of fashion. I'm who what where? Editor in Chief Kat Collings and today is a very special episode. Our entertainment director, Jessica Baker had the chance to sit down with Paul Tazewell, the phenomenal costume designer of the new Wicked film. Paul is a prolific Emmy and Tony Award winning costume designer. Think Broadway's the Color Purple, in the Heights, Hamilton and dozens more. And he brought an incredible level of vision and care to this project. The costumes are simply beyond. He joins Jess today to talk about his approach to creating a distinct visual language for Wicked. Working with Cynthia Erivo to develop Elphaba's luck and how he created an entirely new take on a very important iconic pair of slippers. It's all coming up on who, what Where.
- [02:31]
Jessica Baker
Paul, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today.
- [02:35]
Paul Tazewell
It's my pleasure.
- [02:36]
Jessica Baker
I saw the film two days ago.
- [02:38]
Paul Tazewell
Amazing.
- [02:39]
Jessica Baker
Fantastic. So incredible. The costumes are such a feast for the eyes, so I'm really excited to dive into them with you today. As our listeners may know, you are truly a legend in the costume design world. So it's not surprising that you were tasked to design the costumes from one of the most sort of beloved stories of all time. I'd love to hear how you were approached for Wicked and what your initial reaction was. Was there anything you were especially excited or even nervous about tackling all of.
- [03:10]
Paul Tazewell
That, you know, lots of feels. I was beside myself when John asked to have a meeting and he told me that he was interested in the possibility of me design. I put together a presentation that was reflective of how I saw the world of Wicked and took him through that in zoom. We had standing connections that were distant and didn't connect to Wicked at all. It was that we're both Princess Grace fellows. We had met at an event a couple of years earlier than when he called me. I also designed the original in the Heights on Broadway. And because John was the director of the film, he became close friends with Lin Manuel Miranda. So there was that connection. I think my notoriety that occurred with Hamilton and my friendship with Lynn, and, you know, there's just this web of interconnections. And they asked me if I would be interested in designing. I also am close friends with the original Broadway designer. So it was imperative not to step on her toes as I was reimagining what that world was. So all of that was in there and it was a delight from beginning to end.
- [04:18]
Jessica Baker
Yeah. Well, that actually leads into my next question because obviously Wicked, the long running Broadway musical, it's based on Gregory Maguire's 1995 novel, and the novel was inspired by the wizard of Oz. On top of that, there have been countless debates between fans about their favorite Elphabas because everyone brings something new to each retelling. So how do you approach something with this much IP and lore to draw from? Where does homage end and newness begin for you?
- [04:43]
Paul Tazewell
I investigated all of that. I went back to the original book by Baum. I looked at the original illustrations and what was the visual that corresponded to that story? The wizard of Oz film from the 1930s starring Judy Garland. It's always been a part of my life and a visual reference for me in telling stories and creating costumes. Then with Wicked, as you said, the Broadway musical, and that fan base, you know, and I've seen Wicked multiple times, I think that I tap into how I personally feel about each of those individual storytellings, but then how I relate to that viscerally. And, you know, I put all of that into a proverbial pot. And then I pick and choose what resonates in the strongest way for me. What is our Glinda image when we first see her? The icon for me, for glinda, is the 1930s film. And I think that because Gregory Maguire's novel relates so directly to those characters and how we're managing the image of the Wicked Witch of the West, I thought that it was important to acknowledge that film and some of our icons Iconic imagery. And I just wanted to make sure that we were always delighted by the different icons that we were creating.
- [06:00]
Jessica Baker
So when the film opens, we see Galinda in the bubble dress to end all bubble dresses. The amount of spiraled layering and this pink tulle gown, the hand beading on the bodice is just mind boggling. And it just appeared so light and airy. It's such a recognizable moment. And I'm curious what the design and construction process was like for you in making this piece.
- [06:21]
Paul Tazewell
It was intense. Incredible as well. I liken it to the engineering of a Charles James dress or a Christian Dior dress. If you were to look underneath or do a bisection of that dress, you could actually see all the girdering that it takes to support the spirals that create the silhouette. That's really exciting for me to create in that way. And that was a collaboration with the tailor that made the dress. It was imperative to make that dress float, that we get this sense that it's lighter than air. So much of that is the support we create underneath to have it feel like it's buoyant and then it's fabric choices. And as you were saying, the amazing hand embroidery and beading that creates the imagery on the front of the dress as well. All the while maintaining its translucency. So that when Alice Brooks is lighting different moments for Glenda, that it's emanating light, this magical floating form.
- [07:19]
Jessica Baker
Do you know how long it took to make that dress?
- [07:22]
Paul Tazewell
Oh, my gosh. It took hours and hours and hours. For our filming. We created three of these dresses.
- [07:28]
Kat Collings
Yeah.
- [07:28]
Paul Tazewell
And that's so that we have a hero that establishes the dress and then a backup and then one for a stunt. So that we always are prepared for any moment if something breaks, if something tears, that we have a backup of that dress.
- [07:41]
Jessica Baker
Yeah, I always love those little tidbits. Glinda's wardrobe just evokes this lightness. Obviously. There's a lot of sheer fabric, organic shapes, ruffles, eyelets, beading, sparkles, butterflies, rosettes. I'm curious which pieces of the original Galindas you referenced most heavily and which details felt the most specific to Ariana's Galinda.
- [08:03]
Paul Tazewell
I think that it was the overall feminine quality of the original design that I was trying to capture, you know, and that is inherent in the music and in the lines that Winnie wrote and in the way that Kristin Chenoweth originally played that role. And then for Ariana to step into that role, it brings a brand new element because she comes in with the history of her performance ability and how she wants to play Glinda. The exciting part for me is where the character and the actor meet in the middle and one becomes the other. That is very definitive in how we're going to create the look for Glinda. One of the big things for me was the color palette and how I'm using pink from the original movie as an iconic image and carry that through the rest of her wardrobe all the way through to the very end and showing the iridescence of bubbles and, as you mentioned, the butterflies, and always keeping it effervescent and beautiful and representative of her vanity, but in ways that are also delightful and very charming. Ariana plays that character wonderfully and brings such wonderful life to that the process of designing costumes doesn't happen in a vacuum. I can't do it alone. You know, it's imperative to have the input of the actor. I can then infuse the qualities that they have within themselves into the design. So when you get into a fitting with someone like Ariana, it's, yes, I have the design. We have the toilet, the mockup of the dress, a version of the dress. And as we are working through what this shape is going to be, we're always shifting and changing scale so that it's perfect for her. We add a sleeve or we lose a sleeve because it makes it better for what she looks like in the dress. You never want to overpower the person that's wearing the clothing, and so you require the actor. I required Ariana in the fitting to be present and to give her input on how she feels in the dress, because then once it arrives and she's on set, she needs to embody that character for that moment and not be worried about what she looks like. She just needs to be that person.
- [10:13]
Jessica Baker
Yeah. The popular scene was one of my favorites. And she wears this incredible sheer pink robe. These enormous sort of rosettes double as, like, the puffed sleeve. And she's dancing around in sort of what looks like an elevated laduca dance shoes. I'd love to hear what the process was like for finding the perfect look for what's arguably the most famous Glinda scene.
- [10:36]
Paul Tazewell
Well, if you notice, it's interesting. You talk about. Is the original Wicked Broadway show an inspiration? Well, when you compare the dress that she wears for Pop, which is the pink dress, but it's all pleated and ruffled. Translating that then to this pink net peignoir and her teddy underneath, because John decided to set that scene in the dorm room. It required that they were in nightclothes. But I still wanted to have that same kind of whimsical, frivolous, playful quality that pink dress had in the original Broadway show translated into a completely different garment. And it has that Hollywood glamour as well with the silhouette. You know, we capture her at the very end of her number and she takes that pose with the mirror and she makes it absolutely perfect because of how charming she is in that number.
- [11:28]
Jessica Baker
Yeah, she really does.
- [11:31]
Bobby Schessler
Hey everyone, it's Bobby Schessler here, the shopping director at who, what, where? I hope you're enjoying this riveting podcast between our entertainment director Jessica Baker and the legendary costume designer Paul Tazewell. He is a true visionary and it's been such a treat to learn about his design process and there's so much more to come as you continue listening. The pink and green color theme is already quite prevalent so far in this episode. In fact, pink and green are two key color trends this season in general, and as the 2025 Runway showcased, powder pink will be having its moment next year. Seriously, all of the editors at who IT wear are stocking up on powder pink pieces right now. One place where I can always find unique products that hit on the latest trends like powder pink is ebay and when I'm searching for pre loved designer pieces, I always look for the ebay authenticity guarantee check mark to ensure the items I love will be verified by experts. I recently searched for pink handbags to jump on the trend. I found a pre loved Miu Miu top handlebag in excellent condition. The color is so pretty and I'd make it pop with a more neutral ensemble like a monochromatic outfit featuring a camel coat and turtleneck. I also spotted a pink Louis Vuitton crossbody bag in a quilted silhouette that would be ideal for anyone that lives for that hands free life. I then continued my search for more designer handbags, but this time in green. So many chic options popped up, but a green Prada drawstring bucket bag piqued my interest the most. It features that signature Prada nylon to give off that cool on the go vibe and while green, the darker tone makes it super versatile and it could be styled with so many different outfits. Picture a green bag with a long black coat and a gray cable knit sweater tied around the shoulders as an alternative to a scarf. So chic. A green mini Fendi bag with a tortoise handle also jumped out as a true statement maker. I honestly can't stop thinking about it. Ebay is One of my go to places to uncover all of the latest trends. And the Authenticity Guarantee filter makes my shopping experience even more rewarding because I know the designer pieces I'm eyeing can be checked by experts to verify authenticity. Done and done.
- [13:52]
Jessica Baker
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the popular scene was the only scene where Elphaba was actually wearing a shade of green.
- [13:57]
Paul Tazewell
Actually, we never have her wearing green. You might see more of her green skin because of her night clothes. Yeah, she was in her pajamas. Those were cream linen. And they have this wonderful black work, what you call black work, which is, you know, embroidery on the edge. You know, it's eyeliding tatting that creates the decoration on that. And then her robe is actually kind of a plummy gray that has a felted swirl pattern on it as well. But interesting that you bring that up. It was important for me that we see as little green as possible rendered in clothing to save that for Emerald City. So that when we do enter into Emerald City, it's this brand new space or, you know, an idea, an environment that becomes magical. You know, I remember the first time I went to New York City and I was traveling with other students. We were on a Greyhound bus. I step off and, you know, it's like seeing New York City. Having come from Akron, Ohio, that's the kind of excitement that I wanted to project with the clothing. How pattern and shapes are swirling around and the kind of playful fashion forward way within the confines or within the style of Oz, just that kind of fashion forward way that everyone was wearing their clothing before that. I wanted to make sure that really it's only Elphaba's skin that reads as green.
- [15:17]
Jessica Baker
Yeah. Okay, so let's dive into Elphaba. We first see her as a young girl, and she's already wearing a dress that foreshadows her trademark look at the end of the film, it's black and covered in this very intricate pleated texture. How did you hone in on what the defining aesthetic details would be for Cynthia's Elphaba?
- [15:36]
Paul Tazewell
Just thinking about the storyline of this child who's lost her mother very early in life and has gravitated to black as her defining color? Partly because of its severeness, partly because it is representative of being in mourning and its Victorian element as well. And then also thinking about young people in high school even that gravitate to black as a means of pulling themselves away, sometimes of hiding behind that. And with this Victorian silhouette that we created for her, which is reflective of the wicked witch of the West 1930s film. I think that all of those elements together help to create the silhouette that we have for Cynthia's Elphaba. All of her dresses are beautifully constructed pieces of clothing. Some of those early ones are hand felted. Different colors of purple and gray are felted into the surface as well, and done very carefully, very lovingly. And, you know, that makes for a character who cares a lot about how they look and is very specific about what their sensibility is, which is very important as we connect to and relate to these two characters that are polar opposites when we first meet them and then how they come together. There's nothing that is accidental with Elphaba's style. She's very specifically well put together also for Cynthia. She had very strong ideas about how she wanted to see Elphaba. And I was right in line with her, just telling that story of empowerment and how important that is for both of us.
- [17:12]
Jessica Baker
As Elphaba goes through sort of an internal transformation, her look also evolves. We start to see more references to Wicked Witch iconography as time goes on. And I also read that Cynthia actually asked if the heel of her boot could get higher as the story progressed. How did you think through Elphaba's style trajectory and what were some of the aesthetic indicators of how she was changing?
- [17:34]
Paul Tazewell
Starting from that inspiration of the Wicked Witch of the west, which is an 1890s silhouette from the night 1930s film, the Margaret Hamilton, Wicked Witch of the west, and then translating that into someone who is younger than that point of the Wicked Witch of the West's life. How would they dress themselves, and how do they use that same, you know, storybook or fairy tale idea? How are they using that same silhouette and reinterpreting it as a younger person? And so I, you know, I developed the design of the coat very much based in the 1890s silhouette and then also the dress underneath. But then when she takes the coat off the sleeve, it's not one that you see in historical reference, and that makes it more Ozzian. And also the fabrics that we chose to use with that. And then how I'm pulling in textural elements that are reflective of nature, and that speaks to her alignment with animals and grounding, which is held in contrast to her ability to fly. You know, starting her out in that silhouette, corseted and rigid, as she moves her time at shiz, she sheds that and she goes into a uniform first, one that's beautifully tailored, but rigid and confined, and she sheds that to go into a dress and Then she sheds that to be in a blouse and a vest with trousers, and then finally just trousers and a coat, you know, so she's much more agile and also much more aligned with the students around her. It feels more modern, something about it. And she then readopts the silhouette of the black dress, mainly so that we can hit that moment where she becomes the icon of the Wicked Witch of the west, and she reverts back to textural styling that is reflective of mushrooms and fungus and nature as an advocate for the animal community.
- [19:33]
Jessica Baker
Yeah. So much like popular is Galinda's moment defying gravity as Elphaba's. This is the final phase of Elphaba's transformation into the Wicked Witch and the fullest expression of the microplit motif you introduced at the beginning of the story. Tell me about how you thought through fabrication, silhouette and functionality for this iconic scene. I know you just touched on it a little bit there, but.
- [19:54]
Paul Tazewell
Yeah, I mean, what I didn't speak of is the importance of the hat. And the icon of the witch's hat, which is present in the 1930s film, is present in the Wicked Broadway show. My interpretation of that was influenced by John Chu telling me that he wanted to start with a view of the hat from a distance and that you see this formation that could be a mountain in the distance. It could be an architectural building of Oz. But then you come up close on it, and there's this kind of scale trick that happens that you realize that it's the hat surrounded by water from the water to melt the Wicked Witch of the west, and you follow the flying monkeys out the window. It was like, oh, yeah, perfect. You know, I have the perfect idea. If you were to look at the hat up close, it spirals. Like everything else in Oz, it has a whimsy about it. Its story is that, you know, it was created by Glinda's grandmother. It's been collapsed and packed away. Then she pulls it out, and it's gifted to Elphaba as a joke. But Elphaba actually takes it on as a power source. It becomes part of the iconic silhouette for Elphaba. What it's covered with, how it's created, is with that same kind of micropleeding that speaks to Elphaba, you know, sensibility. It becomes very specific to how we see Elphaba and what that silhouette means.
- [21:19]
Jessica Baker
Yeah. Before I let you go, we have to discuss the school uniforms at SHIS University. I mean, we've never seen so much variation in sort of collar styles, glasses, frames, shoulder Shapes. Can you walk me through how you decided on the baseline school uniform and then creating personalized iterations of them?
- [21:36]
Paul Tazewell
There are so many films out there that incorporate school uniforms into the look, and John and I were very interested in avoiding as much as possible in any of the color combinations, color palettes that referenced other schools and other films. With Harry Potter, you have the red and gold, and with Wednesday, you have a black and purple. We looked at a lot of color combinations to think about what's reflective of the sports teams, you know, and how can we use heraldry in deciding what we were going to use for our uniforms. The color palette that won out was teal and coral that I came up with, and then, you know, adopting the teal as our tailored element, which is in most school uniforms are based on a jacket and then either a kilt or a pair of trousers. And oftentimes the kilt or the trousers are. You've got a strong color in the blazer and then a gray tone in the trouser. Now, this is very different from the original Wicked Broadway, which was a navy blue, I think, and white. What was present in the original Broadway was a pinstripe system that was deconstructed or playful in how it was applied. There was a quality of that that I wanted to incorporate into our uniform as well. But I started with the tailored element, which was the teal, and then worked down to the pinstripe, which is a charcoal gray and teal and light gray pattern. But then as it moves down the trouser or the hem of the K, that pattern goes all jagged and disarray. And that, again, you know, is helpful in pulling in the idea of Oz. The shapes of the jackets are varied, along with the, you know, the half kilts and trousers. And when you see the skirts, you know, spin around, there's a lot of wonderful activity and athletic activity with all the amazing choreography and how the room itself is spinning, the bookshelves are spinning. The clothing adds to that kinetic quality. Also, you know, just to point out the importance of each of these students finding their own identity in their clothing, that they're expressing themselves in individualized ways in a way that you find in different schools where you're taking the same uniform and you're wearing it on your body. I just wanted to make it more inherent to the shapes that I was creating for the students.
- [24:01]
Jessica Baker
I love that we also meet a very important pair of shoes at the beginning of the film, but also itches, silver slippers. I imagine we'll see some more of them in part two of the film. But I'd love to hear how you created your own iconic version of the shoe.
- [24:16]
Paul Tazewell
Well, that again, it is tipped to the 1930s film with the ruby slipper and the fact that there's this iconic shoe and shoes overall, you know, like the glass slipper of Cinderella, the red shoes. There's something that's magical about shoes in fairy tales, and I wanted to create an iconic image for a silver and crystal shoe that would be part of our wick. To do that, I did tap into the silhouette of a 1930s court shoe, basically with a spool heel. And with that spool heel, as I was imagining it, the heel becomes a tornado that swirls around and the jewels overtake the foot. And in that, it creates a shape that is magical and also almost looks like a piece of jewelry or a pair of jewelry shoes. It gives it preciousness when that gift is given to Nessarose by the governor. And hopefully it'll resonate as an icon as well.
- [25:13]
Jessica Baker
Yeah, it did. Every button, pleat and collar really tells its own story in this film. For anyone who hasn't seen it yet or is going to see it for a second time, are there any smaller costuming details that are close to your heart but maybe wouldn't be caught upon first viewing? Anything we should look out for?
- [25:31]
Paul Tazewell
Oh, gosh, it is strewn throughout. I love pulling out detail. Whether it's in a period piece, you know, film or theater piece, or in this. In this fantasy piece. There was so much that we were able to create. There's an origami on the wizard. There's an origami pattern that is swept into the swirl of the shape of his ascot. And then that is reflected in the buttons and the belt buckles. Other elements, the flying monkeys, gold emblem as well. You see that same origami swirl that creates that medallion. And then the Oz is emblazoned on top of that. So figuring that out was really exciting. Glinda and her. All of her monograms was really exciting to put together. Shiz and the perfect S that would represent the shiz school just honors all the symbols, the magical symbols that we have embroidered into, you know, and how that then translates into swirls on her dresses In Emerald City. The world of Wicked provides such an expansive canvas to be able to create this magical world, and it was a huge delight together.
- [26:46]
Jessica Baker
It truly is fantastic. It's so exciting to watch and to see every little detail. Definitely want to go back and catch.
- [26:52]
Paul Tazewell
Those moments and wait for the second one.
- [26:55]
Jessica Baker
Yes, yes, exactly. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. And congrats.
- [27:01]
Paul Tazewell
Thank you so much. It was a delight to talk to you.
- [27:10]
Kat Collings
A huge thank you to Wicked costume designer Paul Tazewell. Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, I'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us. If you have guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a line@podcastwhatwear.com or you can find us on social at whowhatwear. See you next Wednesday on the who what, Where? Podcast. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hamrez, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Claire Schmidt, our editor is Ko Takasugi Chernovin. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.