
Loading summary
Host 1
This episode of the WHY Files is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Today. You chose to hit play on this podcast, Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you, give it a try after this episode@progressive.com aggressive casualty insurance company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
Host 2
Two and a half miles beneath the Pacific Ocean is total darkness. No sunlight reaches there. No plants grow there. So when oxygen sensors on the ocean floor came back positive, the scientists thought it was an equipment failure. They we tried again. Same result. Oxygen was being created not by plants or sea life. It was coming from rocks. Ancient metallic rocks that generate electricity. They produce enough current to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. They called it dark oxygen. This changes everything we know about the Earth's early atmosphere and about the evolution of life. And about where we might find alien life in 2024. The dark oxygen stunned the scientific community. Researchers from dozens of fields and hundreds of organizations scrambled to understand the implications. But one organization wasn't surprised. They've known about these electric rocks since the 1960s. They even mined them in the 1970s. That organization is the CIA.
Host 3
Foreign.
Host 2
The Clarion Clipperton Zone, or CCZ, looks like an underwater desert. It stretches across 1.7 million square miles of the Pacific. It's bigger than India, almost two miles down. Cold, dark pressure that would crush any living organism. Or so we thought. In 1968, a Soviet submarine carrying nuclear missiles sank in the Pacific. The Soviet couldn't find it. The US Government wanted that sub. The CIA launched Project Azorian. To locate the sub, they needed a cover story. Deep sea mining fit perfectly. Eccentric billionaire Howard Hughes built a massive ship. They called it the Glommer Explorer. The public thought it was a mining vessel. It wasn't. Its only task? Recover that Soviet sub. The crew spent months searching for it. On March 8, 1974, they found it. But they also found something else. Something far more important. The seabed was covered with strange metal rich rocks called polymetallic nodules. Each one about the size of a softball. To maintain cover, they actually studied the nodules. They weren't expecting to find anything unusual. That's when a simple recovery mission became a scientific breakthrough. These aren't ordinary rocks. They're ancient. A single nodule takes millions of years to form Some are older than the oldest forests on Earth, older than the dinosaurs. They've been sitting on the ocean floor for millions of years, silently generating electricity. Each nodule generates about a volt, not much on its own. But they don't exist alone. They form vast fields, billions of nodules clustered together, connected through seawater like batteries wired in series, their power multiplies. The CCZ has about 21 billion tons of nodules. This could generate about 20 megawatts, enough to power a small city. Unlimited clean energy. Fast forward to 2022. Marine biologist Andrew Sweetman was studying seafloor ecosystems. His sensors detected oxygen where none should exist. Not just trace amounts. The levels tripled in just two days. His team confirmed the nodules generated electricity strong enough to split water molecules to produce oxygen in total darkness. The scientific community was shocked. The Pentagon wasn't. The CIA kept their research classified for decades. And the reason was simple. These metallic rocks have electromagnetic properties, useful for weapon systems, for power generation, maybe even gravity manipulation. But there's a bigger mystery. Oxygen, water, and electricity are fundamental to life. These nodules might be the original source of Earth's oxygen, the original spark for life. And if they exist on Earth, they exist everywhere else. On frozen moons with underground oceans, on distant planets, orbiting distant stars. NASA knows this. They're already redesigning their alien life detection instruments. Their next mission to Europa won't just look for microbes. It will look for electric rocks for dark oxygen produced without sunlight on a moon hundreds of millions of miles from Earth.
Host 4
You know how your skin just kind.
Host 2
Of announces to the world that you didn't sleep last night?
Host 1
I've been there.
Host 2
Late nights editing, early mornings recording.
Host 4
That's why I'm excited to tell you about Oneskin. Oneskin is all about science backed skin care that works deeper than just the surface. Their team of scientists developed OS01, a patented peptide that targets senescent cells. It helps reduce lines, wrinkles and sagging by supporting your skin the cellular level. Think of it as skincare that actually.
Host 2
Works with your biology, not just covers up the signs.
Host 4
I've been using one skin for over a year now. And the difference is real. My skin feels firmer, looks brighter, and it's one of the few products I trust to keep me looking camera ready. Even after a long night in the studio, Oneskin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, Oneskin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. For a limited time, you can try one skin with 15% off using code, the Y files at OneSkin. That's 15% off OneSkin co with code.
Host 2
The Y files after your purchase.
Host 4
Tell them we sent you. Give your skin the scientifically proven gentle care it deserves with Oneskin.
Erin Andrews
Hey guys, it's Erin Andrews from Calm down with Erin and Carissa. They say you can't plan for the unexpected, but they probably haven't heard of Aflac. You know them as the famous duck, but Aflac is a leader in supplemental insurance. They can better prepare you for life's surprises by helping cover expenses your health insurance doesn't. Even with good health insurance, medical bills are no joke. Many people don't realize health insurance wasn't designed to cover everything, which means money set aside for essentials like rent goes towards unexpected medical bills instead. That's where Aflac comes in. They pay cash that can be used for anything you choose. Think co pays deductibles and even non medical expenses like gas or groceries. Without Aflac, if you're sick or injured, gaps in your coverage can come back to haunt you. With Aflac, you can better protect yourself against the unexpected and help provide you and your family with financial security and added peace of mind. You can't predict the future, but you can better prepare for it with Aflac. Get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. Visit aflac.com to learn more.
Host 1
This episode of the WHY Files is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Today you chose to hit play on this podcast, Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
Host 2
Europa, Jupiter's sixth moon, is covered in ice. It's 390 million miles from Earth. It's also the best place in our solar system to look for alien life.
Host 1
Why?
Host 2
Because under the ice is a vast, dark ocean. It's been there for billions of years. It's 100 miles deep, 10 times deeper than any ocean on Earth. But does Europa have polymetallic nodules on its ocean floor? The answer is almost certainly yes. Until recently, scientists thought finding life on Europa was a long shot. No sunlight penetrates the ice. There's no photosynthesis, no oxygen. But the dark oxygen discovery changes everything. Europa orbits Jupiter, the largest planet in Our solar system. Jupiter's massive gravity creates enormous tidal forces. It squeezes the moon, makes it expand and contract. This creates friction. Friction creates heat. Heat keeps Europa's ocean liquid. These conditions are perfect for mineral formation on the sea floor. But there's more. Radiation from Jupiter bombards Europa's surface ice. This triggers radiolysis, radiation splitting water molecules. This works in liquid water and solid ice. In 2024, Russian scientists proved radiation creates oxygen in Antarctica's ice. And if it happens in Antarctica, it happens on Europa and on Enceladus, Saturn's sixth largest moon. And on countless other ice covered moons and planets throughout the universe. This changes the math for alien life. Our galaxy has about 40 billion earth sized planets in the Goldilocks zone. Not too hot, not too cold. Places where water stays liquid, where plants could grow, where sunlight could produce oxygen. But that only counts planets where photosynthesis works. If we include worlds with dark oxygen, that number jumps. From billions of planets that could contain life to trillions. The dead zones of the universe could be filled with life. NASA's developing equipment to detect electricity on distant worlds. To find metallic distributions on alien sea floors. To detect electromagnetic fields from natural batteries. The James Webb Space Telescope can't see these things directly, but it can analyze atmospheres, detect chemical imbalances that might indicate dark oxygen at work. Polymetallic nodules don't just produce electricity. They split water. They generate oxygen. And on Earth, wherever there's energy, water and oxygen, there's light. But any organisms evolved to use dark oxygen and this type of energy would be unlike anything we'd recognize. They wouldn't use DNA as we know it. They would form a shadow biosphere hiding in plain sight. For billions of years, we've been searching for alien life at all the wrong places, Looking at planets bathed in sunlight. Planets like Earth. But we missed something obvious. Most of space is dark and cold, far from stars. If dark oxygen exists throughout the universe, life could be almost anywhere. So we're probably not alone. And we probably never were. When biologists discovered life around deep sea hydrothermal vents in 1977, they had to rewrite biology textbooks. Here were creatures thriving without sunlight. Tube worms with no mouths or digestive systems. Blind shrimp, shrimp, ghost white crabs. A whole ecosystem powered by heat and chemicals, not light. But the life around polymetallic nodules is even stranger. In 2023, scientists completed the most extensive survey of the Clarion Clipperton zone. They found over 5,000 different species living in the area. And 90% of those species were completely new Discoveries on the Barents sea floor, in pitch darkness two miles down, an ecosystem as diverse as anything on the surface. This wasn't just a few hardy creatures surviving in a harsh environment. This was a complex, thriving ecosystem. Many species were found living directly on the nodules themselves, drawn to the oxygen and the electricity. Specialized microbes had evolved to harness the electrical charge directly. They don't eat organic matter like most bacteria. They eat electrons. They're called electrotrophs, and this isn't science fiction. These microbes exist on Earth right now. Scientists have found them on shipwrecks near undersea cables, and around the nodules. They represent an alternative path for life itself. While plants evolved to capture sunlight, these organisms evolved to capture electricity. If this sounds strange, consider how vast and deep the ocean is. It covers 65% of the Earth's surface. It's the largest habitable zone on the planet. And for billions of years, it's been mostly isolated from the surface. Life would evolve differently, adapting to survive enormous pressure to survive without light, to use electricity as food. Some scientists believe the nodules aren't scattered randomly. They form networks, patterns. The distribution resembles a global circuit, like a vast computer network spanning the entire ocean floor. The nodules generate electromagnetic fields. The fields interact, they create a web of electrical connections, almost like neurons in a brain. Scientists call it the seafloor neural network. It's a controversial theory, but the evidence is compelling. Satellite measurements show subtle electromagnetic patterns emanating from the deep ocean. Patterns that shift and pulse that respond to changes in the Earth's magnetic field. Some scientists even link the nodules to maritime mysteries, like the Bermuda Triangle. Areas where ships and planes vanish without explanation. Areas that happen to align with unusual concentrations of nodules and strong electromagnetic anomalies. Now, most researchers dismiss this as pseudoscience. But the US Navy has documented navigation equipment failures in these regions. Compasses spinning, electronics malfunctioning. The same effects you'd expect from powerful electromagnetic fields. Now, whether you believe these fringe theories or not, one thing is certain. These ancient electric rocks have been part of Earth's system for billions of years. They've influenced our planet in countless ways, and we're now destroying them. Deep sea mining companies are already harvesting millions of tons of nodules. They're destroying in days what took millions of years to form. This could disrupt electrical fields essential to deep ocean life or essential to all life. If the nodules produce oxygen, and they do, a sudden change in their activity could alter ocean chemistry in a way that could trigger an ecological collapse. It's happened before. The mining companies know this. They're doing it anyway.
Host 4
With prices going up on just about everything lately, being smart with your money isn't just a good idea, it's essential. But managing subscriptions, tracking spending, and cutting costs can feel overwhelming.
Host 2
Lucky for you, Rocket Money takes the.
Host 4
Guesswork out of it, so you can easily make smart decisions. Rocket Money is a personal finance finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money found out I was paying for a streaming service twice. Their clean dashboard showed all my subscriptions.
Host 2
In one place, making it easy to.
Host 4
Spot which ones I needed to cancel. They even negotiated my Internet bill down, saving me $20 a month without any hassle on my part. The app also sends helpful alerts when bills increase and track spending across all my accounts, making budgeting manageable. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com the Y Files today. That's RocketMoney.com the Y Files RocketMoney.com the.
Host 1
Y Files.
Erin Andrews
Hey guys, it's Erin Andrews from Calm down with Erin and Carissa. They say you can't plan for the unexpected, but they probably haven't heard of Aflac. You know them as the famous duck, but Aflac is a leader in supplemental insurance. They can better prepare you for life's surprises by helping cover expenses your health insurance doesn't. Even with good health insurance, medical bills are no joke. Many people don't realize health insurance wasn't designed to cover everything, which means money set aside for essentials like rent goes towards unexpected medical bills instead of that's where Aflac comes in. They pay cash that can be used for anything you choose, think co pays, deductibles and even non medical expenses like gas or groceries. Without Aflac, if you're sick or injured, gaps in your coverage can come back to haunt you. With Aflac, you can better protect yourself against the unexpected and help provide you and your family with financial security and added peace of mind. You can't predict the future, but you can better prepare for it with Aflac. Get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. Visit aflac.com to learn more.
Host 1
This episode of the WHY Files is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Today, you chose to hit play on this podcast Smart Choice Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
Host 2
The discovery of dark oxygen forces us to reconsider what we know about life on Earth and beyond. But let's clean up some of the science. Here are the established facts. Scientists have confirmed that polymetallic nodules on the deep sea floor produce electric currents. These currents are strong enough to split water molecules and release oxygen. This happens without sunlight, without photosynthesis. It happens in total darkness. This process has been verified in laboratory settings. The voltage has been measured. The oxygen production has been documented. The phenomenon is real. The nodules contain valuable mineralsmanganese nickel, cobalt, copper. They formed over millions of years in a process so slow it's almost impossible to comprehend. 1cm can take several million years to develop. The ecosystems around these nodules are diverse. They contain thousands of species previously unknown to science. Many evolved to live directly on or around the nodules. But this is where certainty ends and scientific debate begins. Some researchers believe dark oxygen played a crucial role in the Earth's early atmosphere, maybe even before photosynthesis evolved. They point to geological evidence that shows oxygen appearing in bursts regardless of what types of plants, if any, existed at that time. Others feel that dark oxygen, while fascinating, is a minor contributor. Most of Earth's oxygen still comes from plants and other photosynthetic organisms like algae and bacteria. Scientists also disagree about the ocean floor neural network theory. Some see evidence of patterns consistent with a global system. But skeptics say they're seeing patterns where none exists. Then there is the space connection. If dark oxygen exists on Earth, it probably exists elsewhere on Europa, on Enceladus, on countless worlds throughout the universe. This changes our search for extraterrestrial life. We're no longer limited to the narrow band of planets where photosynthesis could occur. The habitable zone expands dramatically. So dramatically that any planet or any moon at any distance from any star, could harbor life, even rogue planets and asteroids. In between systems, there could be life present. Then there's the environmental implications. How dare you? The mining industry says we have an urgent need for these minerals. Cobalt, nickel, and manganese are essential for batteries, for renewable energy, for storage, to power Electric cars, homes, even aircraft. They argue that deep sea mining is less destructive than land based mining. No forests are cleared, no rivers are polluted, no communities are destroyed, displaced. Well, that's not exactly true, is it? Regulations were just passed and mining has begun just within the last couple of months. Now, once harvested, these ancient formations can't be replaced. Scientists have documented the test mining sites from the 1970s. Even after 50 years, the damage is there. The seafloor will heal, but it will take millions of years. Now, maybe mining the seafloor is the right decision. Maybe it's cleaner and safer than surface mining. Maybe these electrified oxygen producing rocks can be removed without repercussions. Or maybe disrupting this network could lead to an ecological disaster. We really don't know. In Earth's history, there have been five extinction events. All of them coincide with changes in ocean chemistry. And two of those extinction events were caused specifically by lack of oxygen in the ocean. We're gambling with an ecosystem we barely understand. But we do know that when the Earth gets sick, it heals itself. And it doesn't care who gets hurt in the process. Bacteria, plants, animals, dinosaurs. 99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct. And if we're not careful, we could trigger the sixth global extinction event. And if we do, the next extinct species will be us. Thanks for listening or watching the WI File Stripped where I get right to the point, right to the story, and then right to the truth. But if you want me to expand this into a longer episode with Hecklefish, let me know and I'll do that for you. And like most topics we cover on the Y Files, today's is recommended by you. So if there's a story you'd like to see or learn more about, go to thewhyfiles.com tips and if you're watching on YouTube or another video platform, remember the why Files is also a podcast. In fact, these stripped episodes are designed to be podcasts where we try to use as much sound and music so we can immerse you in the story. But if you're listening on a podcast platform, you keep in mind there is a video version that contains some images we talked about and other fun visuals. You're not missing any of the story, but the video is there. If you'd like to see more. If you need more WAI files in your life, check out our Discord. There are thousands of people on there. I think we're over 80,000 members, so 24. 7. There's someone on there talking about the same Weird stuff we talk about here. It's a great community, it's a lot of fun, it's really supportive, and it's free to join now. Special thanks to our patrons who make the WI Fox possible. Every episode, every podcast, everything I do is dedicated to our Patreon members. You are the heart of the channel. I couldn't do this without your support, and I am eternally grateful. And if you'd like to support the channel, keep us going and join our incredible community, consider becoming a member on Patreon for as little as three bucks. Three dollars a month. You get access to perks like videos and podcasts early with no commercials. Access to merch only available to members. Plus you get two private live streams every week just for you. The whole Yfiles team is on the stream and you can turn on your camera, ask a question, tell a joke, suggest a topic, talk about something that's going on in the news. Anything you like. I think it's the best perk there is. Another great way to support the channel is grab something from the WiFiles store. And I do everything I can to keep those prices as low as possible. You're not going to see any 30$35T shirts, nothing like that. Plus, if you become a member on YouTube for three bucks, you get 10% off everything in the whole store forever. And if you want to join for just one month to get the coupon code, make your money back and cancel, that's completely fine. YouTube membership is meant to save you money, not make me money. In fact, every dollar from YouTube memberships goes to my incredible team. Those are the plugs. And thank you for bearing with me. I hope you had fun. I hope you know that me and everyone at the White Files family is working really hard for you. So until next time, be safe, be kind, know that you are appreciated.
Host 3
At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being being a new parent, being there day and night and building a plan for tomorrow today for the ones you'll always look out for. Trust Amica Life insurance Amica empathy is our best policy.
Podcast Summary: The Why Files: Operation Podcast - Episode 595: Dark Oxygen | CIA Deep Sea Secret Could Trigger the Next Extinction Event
Introduction
The Why Files: Operation Podcast delves into enigmatic phenomena that challenge our understanding of the world. In Episode 595, titled "Dark Oxygen | CIA Deep Sea Secret Could Trigger the Next Extinction Event," the hosts explore the groundbreaking discovery of dark oxygen, its implications for Earth's ecosystem, and the potential risks associated with deep-sea mining. This episode uncovers how ancient metallic rocks on the ocean floor may be pivotal to both sustaining life and posing existential threats.
Discovery of Dark Oxygen
At [00:45], Host 2 introduces the astonishing discovery beneath the Pacific Ocean:
“Two and a half miles beneath the Pacific Ocean is total darkness... oxygen was being created not by plants or sea life. It was coming from rocks. Ancient metallic rocks that generate electricity. They produce enough current to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. They called it dark oxygen.”
This revelation stunned scientists worldwide, as it challenged the conventional understanding that oxygen production is solely dependent on photosynthetic organisms.
Historical Context: CIA's Involvement
Host 2 continues at [02:03] to shed light on the CIA’s long-standing knowledge of these electric rocks:
“That organization is the CIA.”
The episode recounts Project Azorian from the 1970s, where the CIA, under the guise of deep-sea mining, sought to recover a sunken Soviet submarine. During this mission, the crew discovered polymetallic nodules—ancient, metal-rich rocks—that were generating electricity unbeknownst to the public.
Polymetallic Nodules and Their Significance
At [02:03], Host 2 elaborates on the polymetallic nodules found in the Clarion Clipperton Zone (CCZ):
“These aren't ordinary rocks. They're ancient... a single nodule takes millions of years to form... they've been sitting on the ocean floor for millions of years, silently generating electricity.”
These nodules, each the size of a softball, are abundant—21 billion tons in the CCZ alone—and collectively generate significant electrical power, enough to potentially supply clean energy to small cities.
Scientific Implications of Dark Oxygen
Host 2 delves deeper into the scientific community's reaction at [05:32]:
“Oxygen, water, and electricity are fundamental to life. These nodules might be the original source of Earth's oxygen, the original spark for life.”
The presence of dark oxygen suggests that life could arise in environments previously deemed inhospitable, expanding the potential habitats for extraterrestrial life.
Potential for Extraterrestrial Life
By [08:35], the discussion shifts to the implications for life beyond Earth:
“If dark oxygen exists throughout the universe, life could be almost anywhere. So we're probably not alone. And we probably never were.”
The episode highlights Europa, Jupiter’s moon, positing that similar polymetallic nodules beneath its icy surface could harbor life, revolutionizing the search for extraterrestrial organisms.
Ecosystem Impact and Biodiversity
At [12:45], Host 2 discusses the ecological significance:
“The ecosystems around these nodules are diverse. They contain thousands of species previously unknown to science.”
Research indicates a thriving, complex ecosystem exists in the deep sea, powered by dark oxygen. Specialized microbes, known as electrotrophs, derive energy directly from electrical currents, representing an alternative evolutionary path for life.
Seafloor Neural Network Theory
Host 2 introduces a controversial theory at [14:30]:
“Scientists call it the seafloor neural network.”
Some researchers propose that polymetallic nodules form interconnected networks, resembling a global electrical system akin to a brain, potentially influencing marine phenomena and even maritime mysteries like the Bermuda Triangle.
Environmental Concerns and Deep-Sea Mining
Transitioning to environmental implications at [16:01], the episode raises alarms about deep-sea mining:
“Deep sea mining companies are already harvesting millions of tons of nodules. They're destroying in days what took millions of years to form.”
The rapid extraction threatens to disrupt the delicate balance of deep-sea ecosystems and the electrical fields essential for marine life. Historical mining attempts have shown lasting damage, emphasizing the irreversible consequences of exploiting these resources.
Risk of Ecological Collapse and Extinction Events
Host 2 warns of potential global repercussions at [19:05]:
“If we're not careful, we could trigger the sixth global extinction event. And if we do, the next extinct species will be us.”
The disruption of dark oxygen production could alter ocean chemistry, precipitating an ecological collapse reminiscent of past mass extinctions driven by oxygen deficits.
Scientific Debate and Uncertainties
The episode acknowledges ongoing debates within the scientific community:
“Some researchers believe dark oxygen played a crucial role in the Earth's early atmosphere... Others feel that dark oxygen, while fascinating, is a minor contributor.”
The validity of the seafloor neural network theory is also contested, with skeptics questioning the interpretation of electromagnetic patterns as evidence of a global system.
Future Outlook and Technological Advancements
Looking ahead, Host 2 discusses NASA's initiatives:
“NASA's developing equipment to detect electricity on distant worlds... The James Webb Space Telescope... detect chemical imbalances that might indicate dark oxygen at work.”
Advancements in technology aim to identify dark oxygen signatures on extraterrestrial bodies, significantly broadening the scope of habitable environments.
Conclusion
The Why Files: Operation Podcast Episode 595 presents a compelling narrative intertwining deep-sea discoveries with broader implications for life on Earth and beyond. The revelation of dark oxygen challenges existing scientific paradigms, underscores the fragility of marine ecosystems, and highlights the precarious balance between resource exploitation and environmental preservation. As humanity stands on the brink of potentially triggering a new extinction event, the episode serves as a cautionary tale about the unforeseen consequences of scientific advancement and industrial activity.
Notable Quotes:
Further Engagement
For listeners intrigued by this episode, The Why Files encourages participation and community building through platforms like Discord and Patreon, offering exclusive content and interactive opportunities to delve deeper into similar mysteries.
Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights from Episode 595. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full podcast is recommended.