Podcast Summary: Runaway Country with Alex Wagner

Episode: "Dems Take the Gloves Off"

Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Alex Wagner (Crooked Media)
Guests: Richard Von Glahn (People Not Politicians), David Plouffe (Democratic Strategist)

Overview

This timely episode of Runaway Country explores the Democratic Party’s assertive response to recent Republican gerrymandering, especially amid Donald Trump’s post-presidency maneuvers to lock in GOP dominance. Alex Wagner takes listeners from grassroots organizing in Missouri to high-stakes electoral strategy in California, dissecting the new, more combative Democratic playbook in the face of overt threats to American democracy. Featuring organizer Richard Von Glahn and veteran strategist David Plouffe, the episode offers both a ground-level and national view of what it means for Democrats to "take the gloves off" in the march to the 2026 midterms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Redistricting Crisis and Democratic Response

• Alex Wagner sets the stage ([00:30])

  • 2025's elections matter, but the 2026 midterms—potentially decisive for Congressional control under Trump’s attempts at autocratic governance—are the real focus.
  • In a break from precedent, Republican states (notably Texas and Missouri) are redrawing voting maps mid-decade at Trump’s urging, aiming to guarantee GOP gains before a single vote is cast in 2026.
  • "It is brazen and it is decidedly undemocratic, but it is what's happening." ([02:46])

• California's Prop 50 as Democratic counter-strategy:

  • Would end the state’s independent redistricting commission through 2030, allowing the Democratic legislature to gerrymander in retaliation for GOP actions in red states.
  • "Prop 50...is the first major test of a newly aggressive Democratic playbook. And the whole country is watching." ([04:20])

2. Missouri: Grassroots Resistance in Action

Interview: Richard Von Glahn, People Not Politicians ([05:45-22:23])

• Reaction to Off-Year Redistricting ([06:00])

  • Initially bipartisan shock and concern in Missouri’s legislature; most Republicans eventually “folded pretty quickly” when Trump applied direct pressure.
  • "It sort of feels like you're in the middle of a board game with your kid ... and then all of a sudden the rules are completely different and he automatically wins." —Richard Von Glahn ([06:47])

• Missouri Already Gerrymandered

  • Under the old map: 6 Republicans, 2 Democrats (60% vote share yields 75% seats for GOP).
  • New map would make it 7:1, "one of the most extreme gerrymanders in the country." ([07:37])

• Citizen Mobilization ([09:28])

  • Grassroots organizing—community meetings, rallies (5,000+ at the Capitol), and a drive to gather 110,000+ signatures to put a referendum repealing the new map on the 2026 ballot.
  • "We had people coming out and hugging us ... It's really an amazing response." ([11:45])

• Nonpartisan Outrage

  • Republicans, seniors, and college students alike are joining; the effort resonates across ages and party lines.
  • "I saw a note yesterday. We had a woman sign on her 91st birthday... We have college students ... excited to see there's actually an opportunity to fight for an ideal." ([12:22])

• Battle with State Officials

  • The Secretary of State and Attorney General are accused of spreading misinformation and obstructing the petition process.
  • "They just try to confuse and intimidate people." ([14:43])

• Perspective on California’s "Fight Fire with Fire" Playbook

  • Von Glahn: "When you're engaged in a fight to save democracy, you can't tie a hand behind your back... But our values here are about political accountability for politicians of all stripes." ([17:24])
  • Warns against fatalism: "Apathy, cynicism, these are the enemies. ... It's our job to actually bend the arc of the moral universe towards justice." ([20:28])

3. Interview: David Plouffe—Time to Take the Gloves Off ([25:26–58:48])

• Context and Ethical Dilemma

  • Trump’s push for GOP gerrymandering, mirrored by California’s Prop 50, puts Democrats in a position of needing to suspend "the normal ways you think about things."
  • "They're not doing this to improve their chances of winning the election. They're basically doing it to make the election irrelevant." —David Plouffe ([26:54])

• National Stakes and Calculations

  • Plouffe warns that even a slim Democratic majority in the House could be overturned by GOP refusal to certify results or seat members.
  • "The nightmare scenario, of course, is Democrats actually legitimately win enough votes to win the House, but it's one or two or three seats. Do you think there's any way that Trump's not gonna get Mike Johnson to try and basically overrule the will of the voters?" ([28:14])

• The End of Good-Faith Redistricting?

  • Wagner: "Pour one out for independent redistricting committees... it's over, basically." ([32:55])
  • Plouffe agrees temporary provisions may become permanent, unless there's a profound change in the Republican Party. "We were the party that led the effort ... for computer drawn maps for getting the politicians out of it. So that's kind of our instinct, we think that's right. So I think when the sky is clear, if it ever does clear, we can go back to that." ([34:45])

• Republicans Explicit about Intent

  • Clip from Jesse Watters (Fox News): "We have to kick the illegals out of the country, we have to kick them out of the census, and we have to gerrymander to the tilt..." ([29:17])
  • Plouffe: “They’re saying what they’re going to do. They’re going to take every step, every means necessary to try and guarantee permanent power.” ([30:59])

• Further Authoritarian Moves

  • Trump/GOP willingness to deny seating Democrats, block certification, and even float third terms (Steve Bannon: "Trump will be president in 2028").
  • "You have to act accordingly. And there'll be no medals or prizes for saying, well, they're doing that, but we're not going to go that far." ([36:53])

• The Bigger Democratic Strategy

  • Plouffe's advice: Democrats must maximize their own electoral appeal, not just fight in the courts or with maps.
  • "We just have to become a safer and more exciting and palatable place for more voters. And that's not where we are right now." ([48:22])
  • Warns against fatalism: "Let's not so focus on 24. So focus on the stuff that could really affect the outcomes of the 26 election..." ([50:54])

• A Changed Political System

  • The battle is now democracy versus authoritarianism, not just D vs R.
  • "We're at this state of vigilance for a long time... The sort of middle ground is basically gone and it's just an all out fight—pro democracy versus fascism, I guess, or autocracy on the other side." —Alex Wagner ([55:47])
  • Plouffe: "We have to do some things that might be inconsistent with the world we'd like to live in..." ([56:28])

• Final Analogy

  • Plouffe: "You’re a good peacetime consigliere. I need a wartime consigliere." ([56:12])
  • The Democratic Party needs to embrace new, aggressive tactics to defend democracy for the foreseeable future.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "It sort of feels like you're in the middle of a board game with your kid... and then all of a sudden the rules are completely different and he automatically wins." —Richard Von Glahn ([06:47])
• "Apathy, cynicism, these are the enemies. These are ultimately the things that anti democratic forces want." —Richard Von Glahn ([20:28])
• "They're not doing this to improve their chances of winning the election. They're basically doing it to make the election irrelevant. The desperation is so clear." —David Plouffe ([26:54])
• "There'll be no medals or prizes for saying, well, they're doing that, but we're not going to go that far. We have to stop that." —David Plouffe ([36:53])
• "We're on a muddy track already. So let's do all we can to make sure it doesn't get muddier." —David Plouffe ([48:03])
• "The sort of middle ground is basically gone and it's just an all out fight—pro democracy versus fascism." —Alex Wagner ([55:47])
• "You're a good peacetime consigliere. I need a wartime consigliere essentially. And I think that's we're on, that's the case here." —David Plouffe ([56:12])

Segment Timestamps

• [00:30] – Alex’s opening monologue on the stakes of gerrymandering and new Democratic strategies
• [05:45–22:23] – Interview with Richard Von Glahn: Missouri citizens fight back against mid-decade GOP gerrymandering
• [25:26–58:48] – Interview with David Plouffe: National perspective on the “new warfare” in electoral politics, the death of good-faith mapping, and the need for aggressive Democratic action
• [29:17] – Jesse Watters Fox News clip on permanent GOP power
• [32:55] – Discussion of the (likely) end of independent redistricting commissions
• [55:47] – Wagner and Plouffe reflect on the new battle lines: democracy vs. autocracy

Tone & Takeaway

The episode is frank and urgent, merging on-the-ground hope with national-level dread. Wagner, Von Glahn, and Plouffe all stress that this is a moment for Democrats to abandon old niceties and fight "bare-knuckled" for democracy—a fight that now means using every tool available, even if it entails uncomfortable compromises on procedural ideals. The call is for vigilance, strategy, optimism in local organizing, and realism about the depth and duration of the threat.

"We have to act accordingly. ... If you can't be strong and rigid on that and understand they're going to take this places we were never comfortable with as a country previously, ... what we can't do is simply criticize them. We have to respond." —David Plouffe ([57:30])