Podcast Summary: Runaway Country with Alex Wagner

Episode Title: Justice Has Left the Building
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Alex Wagner, Crooked Media

Overview

In this gripping premiere episode of Runaway Country, Alex Wagner explores the collapse of rule of law in America under the Trump administration’s second term, focusing specifically on how the Justice Department has been weaponized for political gain and personal enrichment. Through in-depth conversations with a recently fired immigration judge and former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, the episode illuminates the devastating human and institutional consequences of these changes, from the chaos of overwhelmed immigration courts to the naked corruption of Trump’s demand to receive $230 million in damages from the DOJ itself.

Wagner aims to move beyond the media noise and punditry, bringing listeners the first-hand stories of those directly affected and insights from leading experts — a “backstage tour” through the country's constitutional unraveling.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the Nation: Law and (Dis)Order

• [00:30] Alex frames the episode by describing the “extended, chaotic moment” we now live in — National Guard in blue cities, citizens snatched by ICE, the White House east wing becoming a corporate event space.
• The central question: “What the hell is happening here?”
• Trump’s administration is conducting a “full-blown assault on the Department of Justice and the crumbling authority of rule of law.”

2. Immigration Courts in Crisis: Interview with Judge Anam Raman Petit

• [06:46 – 22:46] Wagner interviews Judge Petit, recently fired after two years on the bench despite glowing performance reviews.
• Systemic meltdown:
  • Mass firings: 83+ immigration judges fired since Trump’s return; about 600 left for a backlog of 3.8 million cases (~1 judge per 42,000 cases).
  • Chaos by design: The administration is replacing judges with inexperienced, possibly more compliant military lawyers.
  • Fear as policy: ICE agents (often masked) now swarm courthouse hallways. Detainees are seized during routine court appearances, sowing terror among immigrant families.

Key Experiences and Quotes

• On the trauma in her courtroom:
  • Petit: “As a human, it’s devastating…It’s this new era of immigration court where enforcement is front and center, and what used to be a protected space for justice just isn’t that anymore.” [08:09]
  • Wagner: “Children are screaming, people are sobbing and you—it's your courtroom. What is that like on a human to human level?" [08:00]
• On impact on immigrants:
  • Petit: “The primary reaction is fear…When you see that happening, you don't know the difference between that person's case and your case…That image is going to be running through your head…‘I could go to court today and I could never come home, never come home and see my child.’” [09:30]
• On why she was fired:
  • “No reason was given to me…by all accounts, I was a high-performing judge.” [14:38]
  • Alex: Suggests that breaking the system allows the administration to rebuild it for their ends.
  • Petit: “The cynic in me believes that this is all being done very purposefully and that they're trying to break the system so that they're able to implement whatever reforms they see fit, at the expense of due process.” [16:12]
• On rule of law:
  • Petit: “Any public trust or confidence that people had in the immigration court system and rule of law in general in the United States has greatly eroded…I would be so reluctant to accept that job again because it used to be such a stable position and now it's just…anchored in instability.” [21:39]

3. The DOJ's Unraveling: Analysis with Andrew Weissmann

• [26:35 – 68:38] Wagner and Weissmann discuss the larger implications: the DOJ being hollowed out, the installation of loyalists, and the destruction of institutional integrity — all modeled to serve Trump’s personal and political interests.

Major Themes

• “Venality and Corruption”:

  • Trump has demanded the DOJ pay him $230 million in damages over previous investigations.
  • Weissmann: “Why doesn’t he just go rob Fort Knox? … He could just be like, you know what? I'm the president. It's all mine. Right? And I get to decide.” [39:23]

• Loss of Independent Justice:

  • DOJ career professionals are demoralized, many are being purged, and traditional ethical barriers are gone.
  • “There would be a professional ethics officer who you go to at the Department of Justice who would say, like, okay, these people are recused…this has to go to an independent person…those just are not being followed." [44:06]
  • Trump's lawyers, now running DOJ, are being asked to sign off on payouts to their former client, the president.

• Weaponizing the System Against Dissent:

  • High-profile figures (e.g., Weissmann himself, Special Counsel Jack Smith, James Comey, Letitia James, Adam Schiff) are being specifically targeted for retribution.
  • Many senior officials refuse to participate in blatantly political prosecutions, further draining institutional expertise.

• Paradox at the Core:

  • Wagner: “This is literally the dictionary definition of the fox guarding the hen house." [38:50]
  • Weissmann describes the justice system’s role as creating new victims — generations losing faith in democracy and law.

Notable Quotes

• On Americans caring about due process:
  • Weissmann: “I actually think Americans do care about that...I do think there are people who are principled, who are sitting there going, that's not how we behave.” [35:20]
• On the grand scale of the threat:
  • “I'm particularly worried about whether we will ever have a free and fair election again…whether the military will be called out…whether arrests will be made that are illegal, but by the time they’re adjudicated, the damage will have been done.” [64:50]

Memorable Exchange

• On Trump’s self-dealing:
  • Trump (recorded): “It’s awfully strange to make a decision where I’m paying myself. In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you’re paying yourself in damages?” [39:00]
  • Weissmann’s reaction: “Why doesn’t he just go rob Fort Knox?” [39:23]

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Content | |------------|------------------------------------------|---------| | 00:30 | Opening Theme & Purpose | Wagner sets the urgency and topic: DOJ assault, loss of rule of law | | 06:46-22:46| Interview: Judge Anam Raman Petit | First-hand account of chaos and trauma in immigration courts | | 26:35-47:48| Interview: Andrew Weissmann (Part 1) | Structural analysis: DOJ’s collapse, Trump’s strategy, systemic consequences | | 39:00 | Trump’s own words on seeking DOJ payout | "It's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself..." | | 47:48 | Wagner and Weissmann recap and humanize | Why real stories matter, the link between institutional decay and individual suffering | | 51:26 | Weissmann on Jack Smith | Why public engagement and transparency matter; dehumanization as a political tool | | 58:26 | Weissmann on being targeted by Trump | Reflection on the ethical cost and personal consequences for DOJ professionals | | 64:50 | Hopes and Fears: The Future of Rule of Law | Both guest and host express grave concern for elections, democracy, and due process |

Notable Quotes (with Timestamp and Attribution)

• "[As a judge] you can't separate that from being a human. And as a human, it's devastating."
  – Judge Anam Raman Petit [08:09]

• "The cynic in me believes that this is all being done very purposefully and that they're trying to break the system so that they're able to implement whatever reforms they see fit, which will be at the expense of due process."
  – Judge Petit [16:12]

• "Why doesn’t he just go rob Fort Knox? … He could just be like, you know what? I'm the president. It's all mine. Right? And I get to decide."
  – Andrew Weissmann [39:23]

• "Any public trust or confidence that people had in the immigration court system and rule of law in general in the United States has greatly eroded."
  – Judge Petit [21:39]

• "It's, it's theft from the American public…you're creating victims."
  – Weissmann [45:53]

• "I'm particularly worried about whether we will ever have a free and fair election again…whether the military will be called out…whether arrests will be made that are illegal, but by the time they’re adjudicated, the damage will have been done."
  – Weissmann [64:50]

• "Do not turn it off. I don't think people understand. Even if you're in a blue state, speaking up is really, really important."
  – Alex Wagner [68:19]

Tone & Language

• The conversation is urgent, candid, and often emotional.
• Wagner's journalistic voice is empathetic but unflinching, demanding clarity around the consequences of the moment.
• Guests speak with a mix of professional insight, personal vulnerability, and a profound sense of responsibility.

Summary

Justice Has Left the Building offers a bracing, unsparing look at the destruction of legal norms and trust in American institutions. Through firsthand testimony and expert analysis, the episode forces listeners to confront the real human costs of policies designed to intimidate, isolate, and delegitimize both immigrants and justice system professionals. Both guests and host conclude that preservation of democracy and due process will require urgent, collective engagement — and that, for now, “Justice” has undeniably left the building.