A (3:40)

This looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.

B (3:48)

This appalling revisionism and apparently blatant lies on the part of the administration prompted a massive national outcry, and not just from Democrats, from former NRA spokespeople like Dana Lash on cbs.

C (4:01)

Simply approaching law enforcement with a firearm.

B (4:04)

Isn'T indicative of ill intent, nor is it a crime. And as you accurately I have over.

C (4:09)

The years, many years have been armed at protests, both concealed carry and open carry.

B (4:15)

I have been right in the front face presence of law enforcement while open carry. And from elected Republicans like Texas Senator Ted Cruz on his podcast.

A (4:26)

Escalating the rhetoric doesn't help, and it actually loses credibility. And so I would encourage the administration to be more measured, to recognize the tragedy and to say, we don't want anyone, anyone's lives to be lost. And the politicians who are pouring gasoline.

D (4:46)

Onto this fire, they need to stop.

B (4:48)

And so maybe it wasn't the biggest surprise in the world when in the middle of this week, Greg Bevino was moved out of Minneapolis and sent back home to California. Just don't call it a demotion.

D (4:59)

You know, Bavino is very good, but.

A (5:01)

He'S a pretty out there kind of a guy. And in some cases, that's good. Maybe it wasn't good.

B (5:05)

Here in Bevino's place is now Tom Homan, the country's border czar, a man who supported family separations in 2017 and was also the subject of an undercover FBI investigation for bribery. So to be clear, Tom Homan is not exactly a white knight. In the meantime, here in Minneapolis, the deportations continue and the community remains terrorized. Parents are worried about their children, other people's children, and everyone's teachers, like Libby, a mom turned grassroots organizer in St. Paul.

C (5:38)

I started the signal chat after ICE showed up at our daycare, which was the same day that Renee Goode was murdered.

B (5:47)

So you guys are processing that. And then they show up at the daycare.

C (5:51)

Yeah, within three hours, they showed up at the daycare. And then an hour later, we learned that at a different location of our daycare, a teacher had been abducted by unidentified MAST agents that morning. They didn't ask for her papers. She's here working legally, but they. Yeah, they just took her with no explanation.

B (6:21)

And thus the parent patrols were born.

C (6:24)

Yes, exactly. We have parents on all the corners and vests. And here's our daycare right here. Some of the folks here are parents, Some of them are neighbors. That guy right there is a grandpa and abuelo.

B (6:45)

They're out here during drop off and pick up.

C (6:47)

Drop off and pick up. Yep.

B (6:50)

This week we are here on the ground, the very frozen ground in the Twin Cities to understand what is happening to people in this place. How public executions and masked kidnappers have reshaped this part of American society, but also how it has knit itself together even tighter amid all the fear and uncertainty. Donald Trump has set his sights on Minneapolis, but of course, the deportation campaign does not stop here at this particular bend in the Mississippi River. So what can the rest of the country learn from the Twin Cities about what's coming next and how to resist? I'm Alex Wagner, and this week on Runaway country, we are going to ground zero in the fight for this country. Minnesota. I'll be sitting down with the state's Attorney General, Keith Ellison, to discuss why Trump's ICE invasion might never really have been about immigration or fraud, but about blackmail. Whether Trump's targeting of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar may have resulted in her being attacked this week.

A (7:56)

It's just like a Mafia boss saying, you know, somebody needs to rid me of this irritating person. You know, why will no one get rid of this person who's such a thorn in my side? What it means is one of y' all go kill him.

B (8:11)

And I'm heading to the Park Avenue United Methodist Church, just a few blocks from where Renee Goode was shot, to learn how that community is meeting the moment with prayer and baby shampoo. But first, we're going to hear from a parent on the front lines and how she has taken matters into her own hands as federal agents have started turning daycares into battlegrounds. So you have a four year old and a one year old and they're going to this school. Tell me a little bit about sort of what it's been like to be a parent in this year and in the last three weeks in Minnesota and the Twin Cities.

C (8:50)

Yeah. So it's Been tough, especially the last three weeks. So our signal chat started three weeks ago, the day that Renee Goode was murdered. So really it feels like we've lived like three years in the last three weeks. And especially so I live one block from the daycare and being so close, you feel like you have to have eyes outside all the time. So if I'm working from home, I'm also looking out the window and trying to identify what car is driving by or what that sound is, or, oh, is that a whistle? Is that, you know, is that a horn? What's going on? And it's been this combination of feeling really worried and sad for my own children. I mean, there's restrictions on their lives at this point. They no longer get to go outside during daycare.

B (9:49)

Really?

C (9:50)

Yeah, because I can't have the teachers outside on the playground. And then the blinds are drawn on the windows at all times now too. So especially my four year old, she feels what's happening. And I feel really sad for her, but more sad for the teachers who are living with this fear and have their own kids.

B (10:15)

The front of the school has posters talking that are very explicitly declaring the people employed there are using E Verify just to sort of underline the fact that the people who are in the school are staff members of the school, are here legally. Right. And yet teachers, they don't. The school doesn't want, or parents don't want, community doesn't want them out there on the outside. The blinds are drawn. Is that just because there's just no, zero confidence in ICE and its tactics and the indiscriminate way in which they've been nabbing people?

C (10:54)

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've heard story after story of people being pulled over or detained because of their skin color. And our teachers are especially vulnerable because of their skin color and the fact that a lot of them don't speak great English. So if they were detained, it would be hard for them to explain, like, here's my paper, which they are carrying on them at all times. And then they are here on work visas, a lot of them. So that makes them especially vulnerable. There was a teacher taken at a different daycare in the same company three weeks ago. She was here working legally. She arrived at work and masked men without identifying themselves took her from her car and detained her. And she didn't happen to have her work papers on her. So before she could get her work papers to the Whipple Building or to where she was being detained, ICE had already sent her to El Paso.

A (12:08)

Wow.

C (12:09)

And she was there for over two weeks and she was here legally. So it's things like that that don't give us any confidence in the fact that everyone's doing everything right. Everybody's following the law. That doesn't matter right now.

B (12:28)

But you guys, it's not just that you're sort of just trying to navigate the situation. You've taken a proactive. The parents in this community have taken a proactive position. Right. The organized parent patrols. Right. Those are happening at drop off times. And then you're also working to help teachers, is that right?

C (12:51)

Yeah. So we are organizing rides to and from school for any teacher that wants it. At first we had just offered it to teachers who take the bus. Cause they're more vulnerable on the bus stops. But then all these people who normally drive felt more comfortable having honestly, just a white person drive the car. Yeah, it's terrible. So we at this point are organizing about 130 rides a week for the teachers. And in addition to that, we have another group at our school that organizes weekly grocery deliveries at school. So we're also organizing daily lunches because before teachers would go out and grab lunch on their lunch break and that's not safe.

B (13:44)

Wow.

C (13:47)

Also, like I said, a lot of the teachers have families, young kids, and a lot of them can't go to school right now. So we also started a toy library for teachers or anyone who is interested to like check out toys or things to bring home to entertain their children. And we also have some for adults too, because adults also go crazy when they're stuck inside.

B (14:12)

Yeah, I just like the level of protection that's required to just exist as a teacher, as a person of color. I mean, even for this podcast, we wanted to talk to the most vulnerable people. And people are so terrified.

C (14:26)

Oh my God. Yeah. Just yesterday I heard one of my coworkers has a child at a Spanish immersion daycare. And they've also been organizing rides and they had ice, like following them on rides home and like honking, trying to get them to stop. And luckily, like they just kept driving and they didn't pull over and they were able to get to their location, but.

A (14:54)

Wow.

C (14:54)

But we're not talking about hypotheticals. We're talking about real things that are happening.

B (15:00)

Do you worry about your own safety being involved in all this?

C (15:04)

Yes, but it doesn't really feel like there's another option.

B (15:15)

I know this week that the president is. I don't even know how to characterize his attitude to what's unfolding here. He's Greg Bovino has been sent packing, but Tom Holman is coming in. And there's been no significant change in tactics, it sounds like. Right. They're still deporting people, they're still going after people. How are you feeling about what's unfolding here and what's your level of, I guess, optimism that it's not gonna be like this forever?

C (15:43)

A lot of the parents who are organizing have talked about, okay, how do we make this sustainable for the long term?

B (15:52)

Do you think it's going to be the long term?

C (15:55)

This is not sustainable. You know, it's not sustainable for parent organizers. It's certainly not sustainable for teachers and their families. There is this awkward thing too where it's like, you know, there's so many Spanish immersion daycares in the Twin Cities. If this keeps happening, I don't know how they can stay open, you know, and we have a major childcare shortage in the Twin Cities too. And so I don't know where all those kids are going to go. So there's also this awkwardness of, okay, do we try and get our girls into a non Spanish immersion daycare now before there's this rush.

B (16:42)

Because people just.

C (16:43)

Give up on or because they close because teachers are either self deporting or too scared to come to work or detained.

B (16:58)

It feels like that's the end goal. Right. Part of the Trump Manifesto is to make America white again, basically, and to stop the diversification and the embrace of diversification. And what better way to do that than make it untenable for kids to learn Spanish.

C (17:12)

Oh, absolutely, yeah. Or to allow people whose first language is not English to learn alongside them. Yeah. Or to live safely in our community. So, yeah, at this point we haven't explored other daycares, but it's really. You don't know if you're doing the right thing for your kid. It feels like we're putting them on the front line.

B (17:45)

How do you deal with that as a mom?

C (17:52)

I just keep going, organizing the rides. A lot of my day is spent sending messages and looking at a spreadsheet of who's ride, giving who a ride. And like that spreadsheet gives me peace, makes me feel like I have some control over the situation. And. Yeah, a lot of avoiding the emotions of what's really happening right now.

B (18:34)

It's a lot, Libby.

C (18:36)

Yeah, it's. Yeah. And it like, you know, I'm so angry because, you know, as a, as a parent, I try and be present with my children and try and not constantly be looking at my phone But I don't have an option right now. It feels like. So in the morning, when I'm getting them ready for school and giving them hot chocolate, I'm also responding to messages and making sure teachers are getting to school safely, and then the same thing in the evening. And as a working parent, I only get those three or four hours with them a day. And that time is now, like, divided. But also it's like, how dare I be upset about that when, like, one of the teachers that we were giving a ride home last week, we learned there was ICE outside her house literally knocking on her door? Like, how dare I feel sad that I have to text when my children are around? When, like, other people, moms are having to worry about if they're gonna see their children again or get to go home to their children?

B (20:00)

You know, it's hard for everybody.

C (20:03)

Yeah.

B (20:05)

Unfortunately, in this day and age, the story moves quickly, right?

C (20:08)

Oh, yeah.

B (20:09)

The story moved away from Minneapolis and then it came back because of Alex Peretti. But inevitably, it's gonna go to a different state and there's gonna be raids in some other part of the country. I mean, what, for lack of a better term advice, would you give to other parents out there who might ultimately have to face the same things you are dealing with?

C (20:30)

I would say in these times, it's. Especially when everyone is so, so scared. It's so easy to turn on each other. We've heard about that happening at other daycares. Just disagreement over the best way to handle things and how much involvement parents should have versus the corporation running the daycare should have. I think the most important thing is to give everyone grace. And two, remember that we're in this fight together, even if sometimes we might disagree on methods. I mean, that's not to say sometimes I don't send little side texts being like, can you believe what this person said? But finding the humor and the pettiness in it and then realizing that that is pettiness and that we're fighting a bigger fight than just, why did this person say this crazy thing in a chat?

B (21:43)

Even when you're fighting the fighting fascists, there's room for side eye.

A (21:50)

Right.

C (21:51)

You always gotta manage everybody's emotions, but.

B (21:55)

That'S a sign of humanity. Right?

C (21:57)

Right. Well, and that's the beautiful thing. Right. And, you know, I. It's hard to. This is probably not what most people are thinking, but there's humanity in the people who are ICE agents as well. They're not just a. Unilaterally. We try and tell our 4 year old. There's no such thing as bad guys. People do bad things sometimes, but people aren't inherently bad guys. And same is true with these agents.

B (22:39)

Good on you.

C (22:41)

Easier said than done, but amen.

B (22:44)

You set goals, right? You try and meet them. Thank you, Libby. I mean, it's really what you guys are. How you've responded is so extraordinary and really inspiring. So it's great to hear firsthand how it's being done.

C (22:57)

Yeah, no, thanks for talking about it.

B (23:05)

When we come back, my conversation with Reverend Dan Johnson of the Park Avenue United Methodist Church. Runaway country is brought to you by Fable. When so much of what we are surrounded with feels disposable, I really appreciate brands that take the opposite approach. Truly. Fable is a homeware brand built around the idea of fewer, better pieces. Things you actually live with and use every day and keep for years. They make timeless modern dinnerware and rugs and glassware, all of which is designed to last and not just look good on Instagram for like two minutes. Their ceramic dinnerware is hand finished by artisans in Portugal using recycled and locally sourced clay and it is made for real life, dishwasher, microwave, even oven safe. Their rugs are hand woven from certified New Zealand wool. They are incredibly durable and yes, they are machine washable. And their glassware, from Japanese glass to German crystal, has that beautiful balance of elegance and strength. Fable is also a certified B corp, which means their values are literally baked into how they operate and not just how they market. If you are thinking about refreshing your space as we move towards spring, I know it feels like a long way away, but it's not. Whether that's hosting, upgrading your everyday table, or just making takeout feel a little bit more intentional, just level up on the Chinese lo mein. This is a great place to start. Visit fable.com crooked and use code CROOKED20 for 20% off your order. That is fable.com crooked 20% off and a better way to Bring things home Runaway country is brought to you by Zbiotics. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I do not bounce back the next day like I used to. And so I usually have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is until I found pre alcohol. I'm not kidding. I had some this weekend and it really changed the weekend. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you Drink alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It is a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember, make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you will feel your best tomorrow. I was in New York City getting ready to have a jam packed radical weekend and I thought I might be drinking a martini tonight. And I front loaded my evening with some Zebiotics and I had zero regrets the next day. Truly, it is a difference maker. I gave one to two of my friends and they were like, okay, you sold us for real. This is one of those things where it's like, just not even because I'm reading this ad, but just cause I'm a human that wants other humans not to suffer. Give it a shot. Are you ready to try it? I think you are. Go to zebiotics.com Alex right now. You will get 15% off your first order when you use Alex at checkout. Plus Zebiotics is backed by a 100% money back guarantee, so there is no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com Alex and use the code Alex at checkout for 15% off. Here's my conversation with Reverend Dan Johnson of the Park Avenue United Methodist Church, which sits just a few blocks from where Renee Goode was killed. The congregation has been thrust into the middle of ICE's occupation, but they have very much risen to meet this moment. Well, I mean, let's talk a little.

D (26:48)

Bit about what we actually started.

B (26:49)

We're just going right into it. We're going right into it podcast style. I mean, what has it been like being the pastor of this congregation in this moment?

C (26:59)

Right.

B (27:00)

Renee Goode was killed a block from here, and then a few days ago, Alex Preddy is killed. In the interim, the church doors are open to people who are getting pepper sprayed and tear gassed. You yourself experience that. I mean, tell me from sort of just the firsthand perspective what it has been like to live through the last.

D (27:22)

Few weeks in between those two killings. This whole street, this whole street and Oakland on the other side. So essentially this peninsula of this block was completely surrounded by ice, by ICE and then subsequently protesters. You know, I betray my bias, but anything that would have been even called remotely, their work was probably cared for in the first half hour. And it's then after that, it's. There was an intentional occupation of this whole intimidation. Yeah, intimidation of folks. And just essentially at 9, starting at 9:20 in the morning till about 11:20, blocking off these main arteries into Minneapolis where people are just trying to go for their medical appointments and to work, was completely inaccessible. And so obviously with these one way roads here, once you get in the midst, then we had a whole mix of civilians just in their vehicles and ice, additional ice support coming in behind them. So everything is intermixed.

B (28:32)

Oh, and so chaotic. And part of the reason Renee Goode was shot is because there's this very chaotic intersection of people in their vehicles and ice age agents. And there's no sort of strategy, it seems. There's no tactical awareness of civilian life for sure.

D (28:49)

And even for our own staff, not just filming, recording what was going on, but then essentially almost like first aid response to folks coming as the flashbangs go off and then the pepper bombs go off, we had people, people coming in here. Yeah, we open the doors as an emergency station really, for people to wash their faces, wash their hands. And in the process, several of us on staff, myself included, Whitney as well, you can't help but have the pepper bomb cloud waft over you as you're trying to assist others. So, yeah, for me, just personally, there's a passage from the book of Ezra in the Bible about the building of the second temple. It was after, in the midst of occupying forces that invaded, tore down the first temple and when the second temple was being built. Ezra, chapter three, talks about people that were thinking back to the past and all they'd lost and others that were looking toward the future and all that they hoped for. And the passage reads, the shouts of mourning were so loud and the shouts of joy were so loud that they couldn't distinguish between the two. And that's a little bit of what it feels like to be a pastor in the midst of this is attending to the shouts and cries of pain and at the same time finding the spots of hope and joy that can also propel you into the future.

B (30:28)

I think that's one of the things we miss on the outside, is the sense of community is so robust and so intact. And to your point about joy, that sense of togetherness seems so profound in the most extraordinary of circumstances. Let me ask a little bit about how you have had to recalibrate the way that the congregation functions since ICE came to town. How has, you know, how have the people that used to come worship here, how have they had to change their habits? How have you adapted?

D (31:01)

I mean, any Church is already, you know, busy with a lot of ministry. We provide mutual aid as well as worship services and stuff service to our broader community service inside. But in addition to the ongoing stuff, then there's the constant need, need to be reactive to the crisis of the moment. So for example, some of our ministries that we provide, a health clinic, preschool, a thrift store, Spanish speaking service, some of these have had to go to online only or by appointment only work. So that's significant.

B (31:40)

How do you do that?

D (31:41)

Because the very people that the refugee and the immigrant communities that benefit the most from some of these services are the ones that are being really limited by access, both for their own safety as well as the programs themselves needing to protect themselves. So for instance, our director of preschool is followed to the door and harassed on her way to the door just because of the color of her skin. Our Spanish speaking congregation needing to go to all virtual when that culture is especially devoted to relational kinds of ministry and being together face to face. That said, we've actually seen an increase in attendance for our multicultural English speaking service because the caregivers are needing support themselves. I mean, it's traumatic all the way around, both for the targeted people as well as those that are trying to provide advocacy and care for others. Even if ICE reduces their impact in this moment, we're gonna have a trauma services that we need to be providing long term. So for instance, two weeks ago, members of our central neighborhood just called and asked, could we have just some space in your building so we can safely talk to our neighbors. This is a community that's used to people being out on their porches to talk to each other sometimes even in January. I've seen them out on their porches to talk to each other.

B (33:17)

And these are not necessarily people who are in danger of deportation. This is just a community. It feels like they can't speak outside.

D (33:24)

Exactly. And so they asked, said, could you open your doors? And. And we said, what would be a good time? And they called it just healing space. And initially we were just going to provide a space for them to gather and just have some coffee and tea and a few snacks so they could talk. But then we had an area becoming together therapy and wellness that offered volunteer therapists to come in just to do some trauma counseling and trauma informed activities with kids, our children. Family staff person created a meditation center and some other activities for family. There was a yoga instructor that came and it wasn't big, but 26 people came that first night. But it was 26 people that would have Been alone in fear in their own homes otherwise. And they were able to gather in community.

B (34:15)

When congregants aren't coming into church, do you hear from the folks that service them or that talk to them, you know, virtually or communicate with them virtually what they're most worried about? I mean, I'd just love to. Any perspective you could offer on kind of the conversation that's happening between.

D (34:36)

Well, I think they're most worried about the profiling of that, especially people of color was initially black and brown, and now it's our Asian American siblings as well that also fearful. We have, starting as far back as Christmas, we started to have people that could be walked to and from their cars just for security. So I think that's one thing is just safety for themselves and a fear of profiling just being outside on the streets. One of the interesting mutual aid programs that has surfaced, you would expect things like food delivery because they're no longer comfortable coming to our parking lot for our once a month food delivery. Now we do deliveries to their homes. But think about just having your dog walked. We have volunteers that are walking dogs because people are afraid to just to.

B (35:31)

Walk their own dog.

D (35:32)

To walk their own dog.

B (35:33)

And I would assume these aren't just. These are people with citizenship.

D (35:36)

Certainly. Certainly the vast majority, in fact. Yeah, our US Citizens, they're just being profiled because of, because of their color.

B (35:45)

What do you tell people? Because you're kind of recalibrating to say, okay, how do we manage this trauma in an ongoing, active way?

D (35:52)

We can't make promises that we can't deliver on. I can't tell them that. We can tell them that they don't walk alone, that this congregation is with them. Literally, literally walking with them on these streets. And we do. We're committed to that for a long time. I mentioned our Friday food distribution and oftentimes we'd stock baby shampoo as a common product that we deliver to families with young children. You know where we stock it now, Alex? We stock it in our welcome center as a, as a first aid tool along with bottles of water. So if people are sprayed with pepper spray, we have an immediate response for them of first aid of baby shampoo and bottled water so that they can clean themselves. That's an example of what has to happen almost in an urban combat kind of situation. We hope that that's continuing and we will. At the same time we're doing emergency response, we're also working for justice and advocacy work so that we try to get upstream of the Crisis to the root causes of this social ill.

B (37:09)

Some of the people who are on the other side of this have embraced Christianity and cloak themselves in the name of the Lord in their politics. And yet here you are, a man of faith, and we're sitting in this church, and what is happening to this congregation and what happens outside of the four walls of this congregation seems so unchristian. And I just wonder how you reconcile, you know, their position with what they're doing and how you think of this all in the context of your religion.

D (37:46)

I don't want to dispute disparage colleagues, but Christian nationalism is doing the cause of Jesus a disservice. And so, just for example, it's not news, but the Whipple Building, the Whipple Federal Building, is an image for this whole metropolitan surge operation, not only housing ICE agents, but also being a place for detaining people and deportation hearings and everything else. But nobody talks about the real name of it. It's, you know, Bishop Henry Benjamin Whipple, who was an Episcopal bishop of the church, who, if you would look back at his history, he'd be the one on the outside protesting what's going on. He's turning over in his grave because of what others in the name of Jesus would say is the thing that they're called to do.

B (38:46)

Wow, the irony.

D (38:48)

Yes.

B (38:49)

Have you ever spoken to one of them? And if you could, what would you say?

D (38:54)

Well, that's an interesting question. I have not directly spoken to any ICE agent. I've been at several protests. I've been on the street filming my posture. When it's happened multiple times around our building is to be a person of prayer, to be praying for the citizens of our streets and for the protests to be heard without violence that compounds the issue for anybody on either side. To be honest, what I thought I would say is if you took your mask off, would you be the same person? Would you be doing the same things as you're doing now?

B (39:36)

That's a great question. Pastor Dan, thank you for, you know, sharing the story of what's going on.

D (39:43)

Thank you.

B (39:46)

When we come back, I'll put this all into context with Minnesota's Attorney General, Keith Ellison. Miracle made Runaway country is brought to you by. Miracle made here is a disgusting fact. You're welcome in advance. Traditional bedsheets can hold more bacteria than a toilet seat. Yeah. And is not exactly what you want to lay your face on. I mean, I don't know, maybe you like laying your face on a toilet seat. I don't. Miracle made bedding is designed to fight bacteria and to stay cleaner longer with silver infused fabrics that actually Prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth. Miracle Made sheets are crafted with NASA inspired silver infused fabric that helps regulate your body temper. A Hot Sleeper Are you a cold sleeper? Do you sometimes sleep with children, one of whom is a hot sleeper and the other is a cold sleeper and you're caught in the middle of them? That's my life. But it doesn't matter because these sheets help keep you in the comfort zone all night long. Thanks to their antibacterial silver technology, Miracle Made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. That means fewer odors, fewer wash cycles and way less laundry. They feel just as good if not better than sheets you would find at a five star hotel, but without that steep price tag. Smooth, breathable and ridiculously comfortable. All that hidden bacteria and regular sheets, it can clog your pores and cause breakouts. Miracle Maid's antibacterial design helps you sleep cleaner and clearer night after night. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to trymiracle.com Alex to try Miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code Alex you will get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee there is no risk. That's trymiracle.com Alex Code A L E X Alex at checkout thank you to Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. You're the best. This show is brought to you by AG1 AG1 is the Daily health drink that combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants into one simple green scoop. It's one of the easiest things you can do to support your body every day now. Yes, the New Year is often a time when we commit to building better habits or refocus on improving our health. AG1 can help you work toward those goals by supporting energy, digestive regularity, immune defense and a healthy mood. But one scoop of AG1 every morning is one of the easiest things you can add to your routine to keep you on track this new year 2026. Even if you missed the New year, maybe you were sleeping through it. There is no better time than now to kickstart your journey to better health with AG1 Next Gen. AG1 Next Gen is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. With over 75 ingredients including 5 probiotic strains. AG1 replaces the need for a multivitamin and probiotics and more. I gotta say, I got on this train early, like before I even had to read the ads for this. And I would put it in my little, you know, flask, drink it, and immediately I felt like. Well, I want to say I feel like the Hulk, but that feels like a negative. I felt just green with power, sort of Hulk like, but like a kind hulk because that's just what it feels like when you put good fuel in your body. Real talk, honestly. So visit drinkag1.com runaway and get three free AG1 travel packs and three free AGZ travel packs, plus free vitamin D3 plus K2 and an AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That is drinkag1.com runaway and we're back. Here is my conversation with Minnesota's Attorney General, Keith Ellison. So, Mr. Attorney General, thank you for.

A (43:59)

Good to see you, Alex.

B (44:00)

Always good to see you. Even under these extraordinarily bad circumstances, they are dire. A lot of stuff has happened this week. Right. And I want to get to the biggest of the big pictures. But first, first, let me just. There are new sort of foot soldiers being dispatched from the Trump administration.

A (44:17)

Right.

B (44:19)

Greg Pavino packed his bags for California. I think Kristi Noem is busy currying favor with the president. But Tom Homan has been dispatched to run Operation Metro Surge here. And we now in the last few minutes got news from Pam Bondi that she's on the ground in Minneapolis today, and she's saying that federal agents have arrested 16 Minnesota rioters for allegedly assaulting federal law enforcement people who have been resisting and impeding our federal law enforcement agents. We expect more arrests to come. And then this is the kicker. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Nothing will stop President Trump and this Department of Justice from enforcing the law. Let me just first get your reaction to that coming from the attorney general.

A (45:03)

Well, the attorney general has a poor record when it comes to accuracy and truth. The attorney general has made a number of outrageous, unfortunate statements. Her department has sent out investigative subpoenas to myself, the governor, the mayor. But her department, the doj, is not investigating Jonathan Ross, who killed, clearly Renee Goode. She is in favor of investigating people who've done no wrong, and she's not in favor of investigating people who have committed homicide. Now, I'm not saying Jonathan Ross doesn't have any legal defenses, but there is no debating that he killed Renee Good. And he is not under investigation. And So I must say that the Attorney general, what she says is fundamentally and inherently political is completely untethered to justice is always about the spin. And this is deeply unfortunate, deeply unfortunate that the American people cannot trust the chief law enforcement officer of our country.

B (46:16)

I mean, also, there was some. President Trump played footsie with the idea of de escalation, but I don't know, sending the AG here to make statements like that and talk about the danger that law enforcement faces on the ground. Even Tom Homan is not a white knight. This is someone that, like, was the subject of an FBI undercover investigation and was a fan of child separations back in 2017. I mean, do you sense de escalation? Are you optimistic that anything is changing from this administration? I know that.

A (46:46)

Here's why I'm optimistic.

B (46:48)

Please.

A (46:48)

I'm optimistic because on the issue of immigration, which if anything, is what propelled Trump into the White House again, He's at like 39%.

B (47:00)

Yeah.

A (47:01)

He now is openly being criticized by the NRA and other gun oriented groups because of his attack on the character of Alex Preddy, who lawfully and legally had a gun but never pulled it out before he was killed. So I think that the one thing you can count on Trump is to always be extremely in image sensitive. And so because of that, I do think that they are looking for a way to de escalate, but I don't think it has anything to do with public safety or immigration or fraud or anything. Nothing they say it's about is what it's about. And when they leave, they will also have a face saving explanation for that too. So, yes, I do think that they are looking to de escalate. They have. Not yet, but I don't think you're ever gonna hear an honest answer from Pam Bondi. You may hear an honest answer from Trump by accident. Yeah, you know.

B (48:07)

Right. Well, he'll.

A (48:08)

Yeah, by accident.

B (48:09)

His lizard brain kicks in from time to time.

A (48:11)

I mean, he wrote the one day he's calling our governor names and very insulting ones, the next day he's talking about how they're just on the same wavelength and all this kind of stuff. So, I mean, you never really know. I mean, one thing you can bet for sure, they're watching the polls, they're watching their public approval, and they will do what they think serves that.

B (48:32)

Well. You're the Attorney General and there's a case wending its way through federal court.

A (48:35)

Yes, there is.

B (48:37)

There was another hearing on Monday. Yes, Judge Kate Menendez. And she hasn't issued a ruling There's a lot that's read into each move.

A (48:45)

She has not issued a ruling, but she has required additional briefing from the government, essentially asking them to explain why they. That. That the position of the state of Minnesota is. Is not accurate.

B (49:02)

And this is a case for people who haven't been following this, where the state of Minnesota is basically saying, can you please, like, ICE needs to leave. We need to get ICE and Operation Metro Surge out of our backyard. And so we're recording this on Wednesday about 2 o'. Clock. The government, the feds are due to file that explanation by 6pm Are you optimistic that she could just end this thing and that they would comply? Because the chief judge, the chief federal judge, I think Patrick Schiltz has said, you know, the federal government has ignored dozens of requests. He's called the head of CPB to testify, which is kind of unprecedented because they've been so uncooperative. I mean, if the courts say, you cannot do this, you cannot surge these federal troops into American cities without consent, you are making the situation, you know, exponentially more dangerous. Are you worried that the federal government actually complies? Do you worry that, Trump?

A (50:03)

I do worry. I do worry that. But, Alex, let me just tell you what is at stake, if I may.

B (50:09)

Yeah, please.

A (50:10)

So if the US Congress passed a law saying all Minnesota law enforcement must be ICE agents or deputies of ice, or if the president issued an executive order saying the same thing, the Supreme Court would say, that is commandeering. That violates the 10th Amendment. That violates the balance of power between the states and the federal government. You can't do it. That's coercive, and you can't do it. Trump is saying, well, I'm gonna achieve that very same thing by getting 4,000 armed people to aim guns at Minnesotans.

B (50:50)

Yes.

A (50:51)

So if a piece of legislation or executive order can commandeer the state resources, you better believe 4,000 armed, violent people can do that. And so that's what's at stake here. If we do not get a ruling that affirms Minnesota's sovereignty, we're opening the door for the federal government takeover of state authority and power. If they can do it. If they can't do it with legislation or an executive order, they sure cannot do it at the barrel of a gun, and they sure can't do it at the barrel of 4,000 guns, which is exactly what we're looking at right here, right now. So there's a lot at stake. Do I believe that they will listen? Who knows? You know what I mean? This is a lawless federal government. This is a federal government that is committed to the authoritarian project. They are. There is a reason why his favorite foreign dignitaries are people like Orban in Hungary and mbs. Yeah, Prince Bonesaw, you know, is what I like to call them. And people like Vladimir Putin, who kills his adversaries and jails them and things and invades countries and, you know, because Trump wants to invade country, he wants to do the same thing. He did the same thing. So, you know, they are his people. And if any American thinks that he's going to insult democracies that like Denmark and Norway and the UK and Canada, but is going to cozy up to Russia, Saudi Arabia and Hungary, if that's not the clearest sign in the world, I don't know what else to tell you. But I can tell you the 4,000 armed, violent paramilitaries threatening Minnesotans, killing Minnesotans, two in the last two weeks, then it must be self evident to all that we're facing violent authoritarian government led by Donald Trump.

B (53:00)

I wanna dig into his endgame because I think that there's a part of Trump that's just trying to accrue power for the sake of accruing power. Part of it is also to own the libs and say, fuck you, blue cities, blue states. I'm the king here. But there's another twist in the plot which I think you as a state official are well aware of, which is the extortion that. Extortion or blackmail, if you're not familiar with extortion dynamics. But the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, say it sent a letter to the Secretary of State saying effectively, and I'm paraphrasing, but this is the gist. If you don't want our goons in your state, you need to hand us the voter rolls.

A (53:41)

Yeah, that's it. I mean, there's. It's unmistakable. Oh, they want other stuff too. They want data. They want SNAP data that's not public. They want a bunch of. They had three items that they were trying to extort us for. But that is fundamentally what's going on.

B (53:57)

I mean, that's insane. That letter was sent to your state the day Alex Preddy was killed in.

A (54:02)

The street, demonstrating absolutely no concern for the Preddy family. I mean, that's another thing that is completely. I mean, look, Melissa Hortman, who sat at this very table many, many, many times, Trump never called her family or the governor when she was assassinated, never demonstrated or expressed any concern for Alex Preddy or Renee Good, said that their Killers were completely innocent, backed up the claim that they were domestic terrorists. But, yeah, Pam Bondi has said, give us your information, basically surrender your sovereignty as a state or else. And that is what she's done. And Judge Kate Melendez really picked up that on the Monday hearing, asked a lot of questions about that.

B (54:53)

So she's making the connection between the blackmail letter and what's happening in Operation Metro Surge.

A (54:59)

She was amazingly astute in her observation of the situation, and that's why has demanded additional briefing. And I don't know what it means. I know that I trust her and she's a great judge, but it's very clear that that is what's going on. Bondi knows it, although she obviously would deny it now because it's not to her advantage. But clearly they're trying to extort our state. But what I say to everybody else is, if they're gonna do this to this blue state in the upper Midwest, if they're gonna say this to the state that has said no to Trump three times at the ballot box, if they're gonna say this to the state that feeds hungry kids, universal school meals, paid family leave, this is a progressive state, then what they're doing is saying that any state that does whatever, we don't want anyone who defies us, we will punish you for that. And we're not going to punish you with executive orders. We're going to send armed paramilitaries to stick a gun in your face. Now, if that's not authoritarianism, there's no. The concept means nothing.

B (56:09)

Yeah, I wonder what you think. I mean, there are questions of how you check this authoritarianism. Right. Obviously, you're doing it in the courts. In the courts, there's another branch of government that's responsible. The one that you serve clocked in some hours at the legislative branch. And again, we're recording this on Wednesday afternoon, we're barreling towards a potential government shutdown.

A (56:27)

Yes.

B (56:29)

Because Congress, Democrats in Congress, Democrats in the Senate, are saying, you want to do what? You want funding. Now, granted, ICE has a $75 billion pool of funding a piggy bank that is a result of the one big ugly Bill. Ugly Bill act, so they can continue their operations. But as you talk about funding going forward, Congress is saying Senate Democrats are saying, you don't get this money unless you reform some parts of ice. Right. It sounds like it's a narrow list of demands.

A (56:58)

Right.

B (56:58)

And I wonder, from both a sort of legal perspective and as someone who worked in the legislative branch, like, what do you Think about that fight. And like, as you, you know, some of the reforms that are being talked about are, you know, no warrantless searches, making sure that state investigators have access to these investigations.

A (57:16)

Exactly.

B (57:17)

I want to talk to you about that in a second. No masks, no man. Right. Do you think that stuff is. I mean, first of all, do you think that that fight is the right fight? And are you optimistic about those changes making a meaningful difference in a place like this?

A (57:30)

Here's how I feel about that. Why did you ever put one lawn side in one yard? If you're not willing to fight over this, if you're not willing to throw down over this, how do you call yourself a public servant? How do you deserve the office that you operate of? What are you doing if you won't fight for this? And at a time when Trump is on the ropes, and he is, at a time when senators are questioning, at a time when even Republican senators who were skeptical of some of his people said, okay, based on your representations, we'll vote for you, Kennedy or Noem or Patel, they've all been disappointed and burned. I think that there is space for victory on this, and I think we're only talking about an extra 10 billion, but hell no. I mean, win this one or go home. Or go home. And if there's one reason for you to absolutely throw down and never back down, this is it. And I'm telling you, I mean, at some point, you as a politician, you as a US Senator, were, I hope, animated by nobler values. This is the time to remember them. There's nobody who likes this. Let me tell you, in this state of Minnesota, we have Republicans. I remember. This is the state of Michele Bachmann. Right? I mean, we got some right wingers here, no question about it. I mean, Pete Hegseth comes from here. But my point is, even many of them are questioning. There's this guy named Michael Broadcorp who used to run this thing called Minnesota Democrats Exposed, and he devoted his life to kicking our ass every single day. Most of it was BS and lies, but he was committed. He just had a substack talking about, you know, this is wrong. Yeah, this is wrong. What Trump's doing is wrong. Now, I'm not saying that he's my guy politically.

B (59:49)

He's not a convert.

A (59:49)

He's not a convert. He's still over there. But, I mean, you got a lot of Republicans who know this is wrong. I mean, you've got Adam Kinzinger, you got Bill Kristol, you got this local guy, Thom Tillis. James Comer. James Comer. You got people saying this is wrong and so it's a dim. Why would you ever cave now? I mean, right now, the senator from Maine, the Republican senator from Maine, Susan Collins. So Susan Collins, who's on the ballot, she better ask herself a question, do you want to be a senator or not? I hope she does vote for this crap, cuz that'll give us a good reason to get her out. And on the other hand, I hope she votes no because it'll be good for the American people.

B (60:40)

Yeah, it's become a proxy vote for. Do you sanction what happened to Alex Brady?

A (60:45)

Right.

B (60:45)

That's basically the vote. It's not a funding vote. It's an ethical line in the sand.

A (60:49)

Right. Every Republican running for election in Minnesota, everybody, everyone has to ask themselves, are you with the Trump administration, shooting down our fellow Minnesotans or are you against it? If you stand with Trump in this moment, then you don't stand with Minnesotans at any moment.

B (61:08)

The official requests from Minority Leader Schumer, this is what they're asking for in order to pass the funding bill. End roving patrols, tighten warrants. Coordination with local law enforcement. Number two, enforce accountability. Same use of force policies as local police. And three, Masks off, body cameras on.

A (61:28)

Let me ask you, he needs another one. No ICE investigating ice. Well, right.

B (61:37)

I want to talk to you about that. The use of force, the fact that the investigation into Alex Brady's murder, execution, whatever you want to call it, is a use of force investigation according to the Department of Homeland Security.

A (61:51)

Well, well, the problem is not calling the use of force investigation. If the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division, together with local authorities, were to do an investigation, it would be a use of force death investigation. So the problem is not calling because it was a use of force. Right. Deadly force. The problem is that ICE is investigating ice. And it's like, you know what? I thought about what happened and I figured that I'm fine and I didn't do anything wrong. You know what I mean? It is antithetical to any system of justice for the institution that produced the person who did the wrongful, questionable act. To investigate that same act is just antithetical to any system of justice. ICE must hand over the investigation to the FBI and the Minnesota Department and Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. That's what they must do. And it must be a joint investigation. Both discover evidence and use the evidence however we each deem appropriate based on our investigation and our interpretation of the evidence.

B (63:03)

I mean, we know that the Minnesota.

A (63:06)

Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

B (63:07)

Bureau of Criminal Apprehension has been shut out of the Renee Goode investigation. Can you tell us what's happening with the Alex Preddy investigation? Well, we went to court. Yeah. And so what's your level? I mean, where does that stand? And is there a chance that you're going to be gaining access to the body cam footage and more of the evidence that's central to this case?

A (63:29)

Well, so there have been three shooting cases in Minnesota. One of them is non lethal, but they shut us off the scene and denied us access to the investigative to file the evidence. The feds file in goods case and then in another case where a man survived. So we don't say his name for his privacy, but he was shot in north Minneapolis. And then, so that Saturday night, well, that Saturday afternoon when we figured out and we learned about the Preddy shooting, which was that morning, we went to court right away to have a court issue a temporary restraining order to protect and preserve the evidence and to prevent destruction of any evidence. At this point, we've been advised that ICE is doing its own investigation and the FBI Civil Rights Department is not involved. But we've now heard from Trump there should be a full investigation, but it cannot be ICE doing the investigation. It cannot be the Department of Homeland Security doing the investigation. They don't have the people to do this. Investigating a crime is actually a separate skill set of its own. If your agency is set up to do immigration enforcement, you're not set up to do criminal investigations, criminal civil rights investigations. We've been doing criminal and civil rights investigations for a long time. Let me just note for your listeners, the Department of Justice was set up by Ulysses S. Grant to protect newly freed people from the abuses of local authorities. That's what they were set up for. And Everybody remembers the 1960s when Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney and other people murdered because of their civil rights activity. And quite honestly, the Department of Justice civil rights was really helpful when we prosecuted the people who killed George Floyd. And so this is what they do. They're experts at it. They know what they're doing. And to say they're not doing it, but Homeland Security is doing it is a farce, is a joke. And no legitimate criminal investigator looks at that and says, yeah, that's fine. They know what any real investigator knows. That's a cover up and it can't exist. And I'm hoping that you mentioned Mr. Holman's involved. He was a real police officer. He knows policing. He certainly knows a little bit about officer involved shootings. And I hope that he is able to share with them how this is done by professionals. Not the amateur hour they got going over there.

B (66:12)

Not Kash Patel.

A (66:13)

Right.

B (66:14)

I mean, it just seems like the Trump administration has so much riding on this. You could see that in their immediate response, saying this guy was a domestic terrorist out to inflict mass carnage on.

A (66:24)

What a lie. And accusing him of approaching. But let me just tell you, you mentioned Cash Patel. Yes. He is not a serious individual at all. But local FBI people are. And the bureau of the problem is not the FBI in this situation. The problem is Washington FBI. If they let local FBI work with the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension people here and they do what they do and they know how to do it, we wouldn't have these problems. The problem is Washington. But now I've been getting notices that even the local FBI is not investigating and that Department of Homeland Security is doing the investigating all on its own, which is crazy. I've had police officers who I won't name mention that the chain of custody with the gun is, has been mishandled. You know, I've been advised that, look, you know, this is not how you handle crime scenes. You know, and Alex, as a reporter, you've seen crime scenes where you see the little tents with the numbers on them.

B (67:32)

Yeah, yeah.

A (67:32)

You know, where they. This is marking evidence, marking the location of evidence. And it's a careful thing that is done to make sure they can try to reconstruct what actually happened. This is what they've been trampling on. So what we've done is gone to court to secure the evidence. And I can assure everyone that we are taking responsible and effective measures to preserve and protect the evidence connected to the Renee Good case as well. I'm not at liberty to say exactly what, but I can tell you, and I want people to believe me when I tell them the state and the county together are taking the necessary action to make sure we have a case that we can eventually make a decision regarding charging or indictment on.

B (68:20)

More from Keith in just a second. But first, Crooked Media's newest book, hated by all the Right People, Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind is out now. It's by one of our favorite political journalists, New York Times Magazine writer Jason Zangerli. In his book, Hated by All the Right People, jason gives a fascinating and informative look at Tucker's political evolution and how his rise traces the rise of the MAGA movement. Here's a glowing review in the Washington Post from critic Becca Rothfeld mordant, insightful, vigorously reported, and yes, deliciously entertaining, Hated by All the Right People, is as much a work of media criticism as it is a professional biography of Carlson. And Sangerly chronicles how first television and then the Internet started to reward extremes, privileging provocation and punditry over somber fact finding. It's also featured in this week's New Yorker, in print and online, where Jason is now a staff writer. Get your copy and check out Jason's book signing tour dates now by heading to crooked.com books. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Okay, the new year is not requiring of a new you. Some people think they need to reinvent themselves, but perhaps just maybe a less burdened you. And to do so, therapy can be hugely helpful. It can more easily identify what weighs you down and what holds you back by offering an unbiased perspective to better understand your relationships and your motivations and your emotions. I have been in therapy since before I was born. That is not true, but it's almost true. Therapy is a plus. Everybody needs it. I rarely think it does anybody harm. I can't vouch for every therapist out there, but I genuinely and generally believe therapy is a phenomenal practice to get into and so anything that facilitates that gets a thumbs up in my book. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist I have and you can do that at any time from their tailored recommendations. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms Having served over 5 million people globally and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com runawaycountry that is betterhelp.com runawaycountry.com@nature's bounty, the belief is simple. You already have a brilliant body. Supplements just help support your journey. For over 50 years, nature's bounty has offered vitamins and supplements to help you eat, sleep, thrive, repeat from magnesium glycinate for heart and muscle Support to hair growth capsules for fuller, thicker hair and probiotics with 20 billion live cultures for digestion. Nature's bounty. It's in your nature to thrive. Learn more@naturesbounty.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. We know today that the two officers who shot Alex Preddy were placed on leave. And people are saying, okay, don't read too much into that. That's not like a wake up call that the Trump administration is sounding on all this. It's just a pro forma thing. Like that's what happens. And then when you're under investigation, do you read anything into that? Does that signal anything to you? I mean.

A (72:11)

Well, I tell you this, what we heard, the first we heard was not that they were put on leave. What we heard from Bavino, who's gone now, is that in fact the victims were the people who killed Alex Preddy and that I heard one of them has gone to another city to continue his work. Even I actually did hear that from a credible source. So now we're hearing they're on leave. I hope that they're on leave so that they don't hurt anyone else. And so normally if there was an officer involved shooting, the officer would be on leave. And so that is least consistent with some level of protocol. But it wasn't an immediate thing. Remember, Alex Preddy was killed Saturday. Today is Wednesday, and we've just been hearing that this is beginning to square with a normal protocol.

B (73:05)

Yeah, they were theoretically on the streets, those ICE agents.

A (73:08)

Yeah.

B (73:08)

Which is just an astounding thing to sort of wrap your head around, that they would have shot Alex Preddy and then gone back to work.

A (73:16)

Gone back to work. Yeah. Which is what we heard happen.

B (73:20)

In the meantime, I do want to talk about sort of the, like, ICE's level of impunity in Minnesota right now, Right?

A (73:26)

Yeah, it's pretty. Well, see, there's a lot of people who haven't been killed.

B (73:29)

Yeah, well, that's right.

A (73:30)

Yeah.

B (73:30)

And you know, Sam Mondi's here to show us how bad the protesters are. But really my question is, is ICE at all? Because. And Tom Homan may be a former police guy, and maybe he will make some inroads and legally speaking, that are in service of democracy. But what about the guys on the streets themselves? I mean, I think we have a report that ICE was trying to enter the Ecuadorian consulate, which is. They were blocked. That's prohibited by the Vienna conventions. Like this is basic sort of law here and they seem intent on violating it.

A (74:07)

Well, here's the problem, Alex. These people are exceedingly poorly trained. Right. So we're not getting, to use Trump's phrase, we're not getting the best, you know, memories.

B (74:22)

The worst of the worst are the ICE people.

A (74:24)

Right, Right. We're getting sort of these, these people who couldn't hold a security job at a, at a, at a, at a grocery store. And we're getting these people who are poorly trained. They're being told that they have absolute immunity.

B (74:39)

Yeah.

A (74:39)

Which they don't.

B (74:41)

Yeah.

A (74:41)

So they're, so they're being poorly trained, poorly instructed on their job. So of course they do insane things like that. And of course they use chemical irritants on cars containing children. And of course they use a 5 year old child as bait. And of course they're busting windows and dragging autistic women on their way to a medical appointment out of a car. And of course they're doing all these horrible bad things because they don't know what they're doing. They've been told that they're going to get rid of the worst of the worst, then they have absolute immunity. And they've been told that in nothing they do will they ever be held accountable for. So that's what's going on. Poorly trained, poorly recruited, misinformed people who have a complex relationship with masculinity. You know what I mean? Whose idea.

B (75:39)

And race.

A (75:39)

And race. Whose idea of manhood is violence and whose idea of other people is that if they're not white, Anglo Saxon, that they're probably not supposed to be here, that they're suspect.

B (75:55)

I think that said explicitly, you don't sound like me so far. Where are you from? And the idea that you could be an American and also have an accent and not look like someone who is white seems like a real betrayal, I think, on the part of this administration. And it's lackeys.

A (76:08)

Yeah. And then on behalf of, like, I mean, here's the other thing. Are they racist? Sure. But the two people they killed are white people.

B (76:14)

I know.

A (76:16)

So, like, if you as a Minnesotan think, well, I'm not a person of color, so they probably won't hurt me. Oh, no, they'll kill you. They have.

B (76:27)

They'll shoot a mom in the face and a nurse in the back, as we're pointing out.

A (76:32)

That is what they'll do. And they say, oh, those people were protesting. But there's a lot of people who were Injured, hurt, abused, and mistreated who were not even protesting. They were passing by, and so no one is safe from them. And here's another thing about ICE and its composition and organization. Does anyone doubt that if Trump said, you guys, you're my guys, and all these people who are assassin me and disrespected me, I want you to arrest them, do you think he wouldn't do it? If I said, go arrest the governor, do you think ICE agents wouldn't do it? Yeah, they would do it. They are a praetorian. They're a paramilitary Praetorian guard. That is what they are. Unlike a police department, they don't tell people their names. They don't show their faces, they don't wear badges. Unlike a police department, they're not tethered to a location.

B (77:29)

Right, right.

A (77:31)

They can be sent anywhere. Unlike a police department, they're not trained on proper use of force or de escalation. Their only loyalty is to Donald J. Trump, and they do what they think he wants them to do, which is to be violent towards the enemy within. Who is anybody who disagrees with Trump, anybody who doesn't look right, anybody who's from another country. This is what's going on.

B (78:00)

I have two more things I want to talk to you about and know your time is precious, so I'm deeply appreciative. Ilhan Omar. Yes.

A (78:08)

Great person. Yeah.

B (78:11)

A huge figure in both state politics and national politics and an object of obsession for this current president.

A (78:18)

Yeah. He really is obsessed with Ilhan. I mean, here's the thing. You know, I'm Ilhan's predecessor, and I was proudly helpful to her to take over where I left off because I wanted somebody who was a fighter and was good.

B (78:32)

You got one.

A (78:33)

Sure did. And she was attacked with an unknown liquid substance at a public meeting. That does not happen. But for Trump's repeated, vile, violent rhetoric. He lies on her constantly. He abuses her reputation. And now Trump is engaged in what I think some experts call stochastic terrorism.

B (79:02)

Yeah.

A (79:03)

And you know the term, it's just like a Mafia boss saying, you know, somebody needs to rid me of this irritating person. You know, why will no one get rid of this person who's such a thorn in my side? What it means is one of y' all go kill him.

B (79:21)

Yeah.

A (79:22)

And everybody knows what happened. And he can say, oh, I didn't say do that. But that's what's going on. And so Trump is responsible for what happened to Ilhan Omar. I have a very strong feeling he Won't call her to apologize or to check into how she is, but I just want anybody to know who's listening to your show. Trump is a liar. Ilhan Omer is a very smart, very kind person.

B (79:47)

Tough.

A (79:48)

So who's tough?

B (79:49)

Watch the video. You see, she's ready to go after the guy.

A (79:52)

She is. Look, Ilhan Omar might not weigh 100 pounds soaking wet, but Ilhan Omar has the heart of a lion. But she has also the heart of a mom. And she's. And she's a kind, good person. She's smart, and she loves the state of Minnesota. And Trump is always saying, they're always. I think he used the word complaining. They're always. Ilhan Omar believes that America is a wonderful country that could be better, and she calls it to being better. That's not criticized. That's not tearing our country down. It's calling our country to come up.

B (80:32)

Yeah.

A (80:33)

And he doesn't understand the difference. To him, flattery is the only acceptable level of communication.

B (80:40)

And patriotism.

A (80:41)

Well, he doesn't. Yeah, that's patriotism. Ilhan is a patriot. Like, he. He's. He actually doesn't really. He's the one who doesn't give a crap about America. Really.

B (80:50)

It's him.

A (80:51)

It's. It's all about him. You know, believe me, if it ever became convenient for him, or he could lower his taxes by moving to, I don't know, Abu Dhabi. He would do it.

B (81:01)

Greenland.

A (81:01)

Greenland. He would do it. You know?

B (81:04)

All right, this is not over. Right. None of this is over.

A (81:06)

Not by a father.

B (81:07)

It's not over.

A (81:08)

Even if there is a de. Escalation in Minnesota. And I hope that there is. My big fear is, where will there be an escalation?

B (81:15)

Exactly. And so that's my sort of ultimate question to you, which is, you know, you are living through this. You are pulling all the levers you can. You see a citizenry that's engaged, that is aware, that is banded together. What is your guidance for the next blue state AG that has to tackle the kind of scenario that's been unfolding here in Minnesota?

A (81:39)

Absolutely. So, like, if I were in Maine and I got a good friend named Aaron Frey, who is the Attorney General in Maine, start reaching out to your colleagues early. Get ready. Get your memos ready. On challenging the escalation. They call it Metro surge here. They'll probably call it something else there. Get your memos ready. Start writing your legal briefs now on the Insurrection act and how it doesn't apply. Make sure you give people advice on protesting now and then. Show up at. Show up and be visible. Don't just sit in an office building and write briefs and buying a computer. Show up at the community meeting, show up at the protests. I mean, I go outside the Whipple Building and just thank people for being there. Help people understand that they're not wrong and that one of the reasons that Trump is attacking us is because we live in states where there is a sense of the common good. Trump wouldn't be attacking us if we didn't welcome the stranger in Minnesota. In Minnesota, we are so embracing of all people, including immigrants, that we elected a girl who used to be in a refugee camp to be our congressperson. That's Ilhan. She's a woman now, but she was a girl and a kid trying to survive a refugee camp in Kenya when she came here. And he is attacking us because we're welcoming, because we believe in liberty and justice for all. We are in the bullseye of Donald Trump because we have paid family leave, because we believe that our trans neighbors have every right to respect and dignity and participation in this society. They hate our state because we don't hate trans people. They hate us. And so that is what it's about. And don't let them back you off your values. Never quit. Never quit. If you do quit, it won't gain you anything. They're still going to crap all over you. So why not fight and maybe win? And so. And then understand that the nation is behind you. The nation is behind Minnesota right now. And if he does de escalate and go to another state, we'll be behind you there. And let me also say this. I have friends who are ags in Southern states who are border states. They're fighting the Sinaloa drug cartel. They're down immigration enforcement people because they're up here. So you have some Arizona ICE agent freezing his or her ass off in Minnesota when they could be stopping Fentanyl from coming through the border, proving that this is nothing but retribution and punishment and it's wrong and it's immoral and we will never back down. Not ever. Never. He will quit before we do. And that's the lessons I got.

B (84:48)

That's a lot of lessons. Good lessons.

A (84:52)

Way to go. Alex, thanks so much.

B (84:54)

Thank you so much for your time.

A (84:55)

Got it.

C (84:56)

You're the best.

A (84:57)

You are.

B (85:00)

That is our show for this week. As always, if you have been impacted directly by the Trump administration or its policies, send us an email or a one minute voice note@runawaycountryrooked.com and we may be in touch to feature your story. A huge thank you to everyone who has written in already. Last but not least, please don't forget to check out the show and our rapid response videos on our YouTube channel. Runaway country with Alex Wagner. Runaway country is a crooked media production. Our senior producer is Ilona Minkovski. Our producer is Emma Ilick Frank. Production support from Megan Larson and Lacey Roberts. The show is mixed and edited by Charlotte Landis. Ben Hethcote is our video producer and Matt de Groat is our head of production. Audio support comes from Kyle Seglin. Our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Adrienne Hill is our head of news and politics. Katie Long is our Executive Producer of Development. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east.

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