← Runaway Country with Alex Wagner
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- [00:01]
Michael Moore
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- [00:33]
Alex Wagner
Hi everyone. It has been one week since an ICE agent killed Renee Nicole Goode, a Minneapolis wife and mother who was blocking ICE officers with her car and was then shot in the face before an ICE agent called her a fucking bitch. The entire episode was shocking, as was the response from the Trump administration. If you look at what the definition of domestic terrorism is, it completely fits this situation on the ground that is DHS Secretary Kristi Noem with CNN's Jake Tapper. Noem used that term, domestic terrorism the day the shooting happened, and she has doubled down on it ever since. But that classification was just the tip of the iceberg. The Justice Department is now trying to investigate Good's widow, Becky, for her potential ties to activist groups, while it's at the same time impeding efforts to investigate the officer who shot Renee Goode. Six federal prosecutors in Minnesota have resigned in protest of the decision to characterize goods shooting as an assault on a federal officer, including the Acting U.S. attorney for the state of Minnesota, a man who was appointed by Trump just last year. But those folks seem to be in the minority. Conservatives have largely fallen in line behind Trump, saying that Good's killing was justified and that Good deserved what happened to her.
- [01:55]
Tim Miller
I can believe that her death is.
- [01:57]
Michael Moore
A tragedy while also recognizing that it's a tragedy of her own making and a tragedy of the far left who has marshaled an entire movement, a lunatic fringe, against our law enforcement officers.
- [02:09]
Tim Miller
The fact is that Renee Goode was interfering with police activity. This is a woman who was in severe crisis. She lived a very sad and very chaotic life.
- [02:22]
Alex Wagner
Polling from Data for progress shows that 68% of Republicans believe that the ICE agent was justified in shooting Renee Goode, which means that a not insignificant part of this country has watched Renee Goode's murder and is okay with it. And that begs the question, are we living in parallel realities? I'm Alex Wagner, and this week on Runaway Country. How have seemingly lawless mass gunmen become the law itself? And what happens to the country now? How long until ICE identifies the, quote, domestic terrorists, not just in their family's Hondas, but on social media, by their yard signs and in their text messages? Is what's happening in Minneapolis and Portland and elsewhere desensitizing us to the fact that we are increasingly living in a militarized state where the enemy of the country is anyone who disagrees with President Trump. I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within, not even the people that have come in and destroying our country, by the way, totally destroying our country. The towns, the villages, they're being inundated. But I don't think they're the problem in terms of election day. I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people, we have some sick people, radical left lunatics, and I think they're the. And it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by national God or if really necess, by the military. That was Trump talking to Fox's Maria Bartiromo back in 2024, less than a month before he won the election. But he has kept it warm since then. Here he is in September addressing U.S. military leaders.
- [04:05]
Tim Miller
And I told Pete we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military National Guard. But military.
- [04:15]
Alex Wagner
This is brute force, strongman shit at its most elemental. To better understand where we are headed here I'm speaking with my friend Tim Miller, the Bulwarks boy wonder about what all this looks like from where he sits down in red state America. But before we get into that, I wanted to talk to someone who might offer some firsthand perspective on the other side of this, someone who knows law enforcement from the inside. As the former head of a big city police department, Police Chief Michael Moore was an officer with the LA Police Department for over four decades, and he led the department from 2018 to 2024. I wanted to talk to Michael to understand what he thinks of this situation, how law enforcement sees this playing out, how anyone could possibly look at these videos and see that action as justified. And what he makes of the government's approach to the, quote, enemy from within. Here's our conversation. Let's just start at the beginning, which is when you saw the videotape of Renee Goode being shot. What was your reaction?
- [05:28]
Michael Moore
Well, I think as all of us, we saw this terrible loss of life of a woman who was engaged in some type of action against ICE and against their enforcement and apparently held some beliefs in opposition to what they were doing. And then her actions of attempting to flee and an ICE officer being in front of that vehicle, resulting in that deadly use of force. It was heartbreaking to see it. It was worrisome in a sense, of the tactics that she employed, the dangers that she presented to those officers and the community, and also the loss of life over such an engagement. And then later to learn that circumstances like this, the officer who was involved in this, had been involved in a similar incident, caused me even more concerns, not so much on the officer's part, but on the part of ICE and their senior officials as to what they're doing to protect their people, to give them the training and the guidance so that these type of volatile encounters are reduced and are minimized. You can't eliminate it entirely.
- [06:41]
Alex Wagner
When you talk about, like, what she was doing to escalate or make the situation dangerous, it seems to me like there are a number. If you dive into the sort of Internet version of all of this, there are a lot of these apprehensions or confrontations that happen when people are in their cars. Part of that is because we have this kind of unprecedented dragnet that is occurring in American streets, in cities all over the country, that sort of. It feels random, at least to those of us outside of ICE and the federal government, where it's, you know, agents are kind of just patrolling areas where they think undocumented migrants may live. And it all feels kind of haphazard, given that. Right. That the sort of randomness is almost built into this. Like, what protocols would you imagine should be in place on the ICE side to, I guess, mitigate the chaos? What feels like an incredibly chaotic situation by nature.
- [07:42]
Michael Moore
So, you know, those of us in law enforcement, our task is to anticipate and when we understand that we're going to be engaged in enforcement actions, is to plan, ensure we have the proper tools, the proper resources, that we have contingencies. And our effort is obviously the reverence for life, the minimal amount of use of force, if any, for us, our responsibilities in local law enforcement, in holding sacred the trust that's been given to us and exercising the authority that the public has given to law enforcement is to do so in a manner that is thoughtful, that recognizes and respects the constitutional rights of everyone that finds ways of accomplishing the mission with the least amount of force, with the greatest protection for our own personnel as well as those that we encounter and the community. The tactics that are being used here, as you said, they do appear to be randomized. They appear to be a net, a sweep, rather than a planned and strategic manner that can be done in a much more thoughtful way.
- [08:43]
Alex Wagner
You mentioned the phrase reverence for life. And I have to ask you, at the end of this video, we hear a ICE agent say, fucking bitch. Pardon my language. Does that speak to you about does. Does that signal a reverence for life? I mean, what was your thinking when you heard that?
- [09:05]
Michael Moore
Oh, it can be being personally involved where someone has forced your hand and had you resort to a level of force or an action to protect yourself or someone else. It can cause a resentment, an angered response, and a pushback of, why did they make me do this? I can also understand that people may look at that as if he was already preset to be engaged in this violent encounter. There's questions relative to his background, where he was dragged by ISIS reports for 100 yards attempting a vehicle stop of some type, and the trauma and the fear and the concern that he and his family and others had about whether he would survive that encounter. And now he's months later in a similar situation, and he resorts to what is the most important and critical decision that every officer prays that they never have to make, which is to resort to the use of deadly force. And it can cause an anger or resentment. So the reverence for human life, that reaction can be in part to the fact that, how dare you make me do this? Why are you driving a car at me? I'm attempting a stop. Now, one can be, and one is critical of attempting a vehicle stop in that manner.
- [10:29]
Alex Wagner
I mean, there are people that are just trying to videotape these ICE arrests that are getting punched in the face or dragged away by ice.
- [10:37]
Michael Moore
Now, that's not violent protest, and I'm not attempting to excuse that at all. In fact, that's wrong. And we've seen this in local. And we've seen this. I've seen this as a chief, where officers, their emotions get caught up. They lack either their own presence of mind or their. Their supervision where they act out. And they need to be held accountable to that. One of the key functions that we see in demonstrations and public protests is the ability, is the need to rotate your people in and out. They're human beings, and they can get frustrated, they can get fatigued, and they can have a short temper. These ICE officials. I mean, some of these individuals probably have been working day in, day out for countless hours and are running on empty. That, again, is not the public's fault, and that, again, is ICE and DHS's responsibility as senior executives is to recognize these behaviors and, and not to justify them or in justifying them by saying, our people are Tired. They're scared. They're resorting this because they're worried about getting home.
- [11:44]
Alex Wagner
Just from the citizen side, it doesn't seem like there's any interest in de escalating this and calling. You talk about how people can find themselves caught up with the zeal, which I would maybe characterize as a real. They're appalled by what's happening in their neighborhoods. They're appalled by what's happening to their community members, and they're trying to save their country as they see it. Right. And they're being called domestic terrorists by the head of the Department of Homeland Security and by the president of the United States. And I just wonder, how's that going to tone anything down?
- [12:26]
Michael Moore
You know, like, I don't disagree with you. The rhetoric on both. If we take sides, this shouldn't be binary. We're a country of many opinions, ideas, thoughts. And it's one that has welcomed debate and welcome dialogue and disputes as we have this grand experiment that has existed now in our 250th year. It's never been smooth, but we do have people in very responsible positions today that I'm disappointed in. And this is on both sides. We're adding fuel to the fire rather than identifying a strategy going forward that allows this public discord to occur. This is where we need to. It's almost pastoral. You want to take a moment and say we need to take a deep breath, all of us, and find a way to not serve the rhetoric, of course, in social media and in the flashing matters. We want the zinger.
- [13:34]
Alex Wagner
Yeah. Well, I mean, a woman was killed, a mother was killed. Absolutely. I'm with you on the sort of zingerification of our national discourse. But the acting U.S. attorney who was appointed by Donald Trump last year has resigned because the feds have decided or his office is facing pressure to investigate Renee Goode's killing as an assault on a federal officer.
- [14:00]
Michael Moore
I will tell you that, to me, that is encouraging.
- [14:05]
Tim Miller
Why?
- [14:05]
Michael Moore
Because it is showing resistance to what people believe is unjust.
- [14:11]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [14:12]
Michael Moore
What I would worry because take that same scenario. This Acting U.S. attorney appointed by President Trump would acquiesce to this. But instead, he and others have opposed it, and they opposed it in the strongest terms. By submitting their resignation, the public should look at that as signs of encouragement, not to press farther on the pedal, not to delegitimize their resistance to this by using violence against police officers or ICE officers, but by continuing to demonstrate a resolve to hold principles.
- [14:46]
Alex Wagner
I think that ICE would probably appreciate your equanimity in this conversation. But the reality is that the chief of police in Minnesota, local law enforcement all over the country, both on and off the record, has expressed their horror at what is happening here. And that I think is reflected in the choice of the federal investigators to cut out the Minnesota Police Department or the local police in Minnesota on this investigation. How did that decision sit with you?
- [15:18]
Michael Moore
So let me. Yeah, so let me respond to that. I know Chief o', Hara Bryan and I are friends. I've listened to many of his remarks. I've not heard him use the word horror. You have perhaps, or perhaps you've characterized it as that. I join with him in the fact that the means of which ICE is going about their work is unnecessary and is in part responsible for the reactions that is happening. I think there's tactics that are being used that is prompting people to act out, as he said, and I agree, when you conduct vehicle stops in a manner which I've seen where they're just walking up on bum rushing cars and grabbing doors and opening and trying to drag people out of cars that are perhaps still engaged in and in gear and so forth, there's no good that's going to come out of that. That's just out of a thousand cycles. It's going to go bad. And it did in this instance. It went very bad to the tragic loss of a life. I think that the uniqueness of this I've not heard in my time in LAPD for years. For us to be boxed out of an investigation entirely, for the local district attorney, state's attorney to have no access, it's not the right path. It's wrong. It's only going to fuel conspiracy theorists and people. It's going to solidify their position that whatever comes out of that report, well, that's just them backing the President's initial remarks or DHS or anyone else that decided to jump in this and totally vindicate.
- [16:53]
Alex Wagner
Do you worry, given the reporting we have, about how quickly ICE agents are being recruited, the lack of background checks just. Are you worried about who's actually making these arrests? Are you worried about the training?
- [17:05]
Michael Moore
I absolutely believe that what's needed is cooler heads, wiser thoughts, decisions by leadership within ICE to change their tactics. They can achieve the removal, the identification and removal of those criminals that are in our country unlawfully. But the manner in which they're doing it is creating this unnecessary harm. It's undermining the public's confidence and by extension, it's undermining public's confidence in local Law enforcement. It's putting local law enforcement and ICE officials in peril. And they should change their course, period. A law enforcement official has on their responsibility, regardless of tenure. They know the difference between right and wrong and they know what their sworn duty is. And yet we also know the human tendency is that they're also socialized by the culture of the agency and the time in which they're working. So if you or as that agency is growing by leaps and bounds, thousands and thousands of new agents, the rush to acquire those absolutely needs to be carefully watched. Lapd, when we've had a rush to hire in decades past, we've picked up some bad apples. We picked up a lot of good people, a lot of solid, dedicated professionals. But we also had some people get through that should not have because of the rush. Similarly, once they come in and they're training and the expectations, if the environment around them is very conducive to just don't worry about the rules, we're just going to go out and do what we want to do. You undermine that culture of discipline, of professionalism, of reverence for life and for their duty to uphold your sworn duty. And so those are all concerns. We have them as law enforcement leaders. We have it as an American. And we're not at a point of no return.
- [19:02]
Alex Wagner
Former chief of the lapd, Michael Moore, thank you so much for, for coming on the podcast today. Really appreciate your time, sir.
- [19:08]
Michael Moore
Thank you.
- [19:14]
Alex Wagner
So that was a lot. When we come back, I will sift through all of this with the Bulwarks. Tim Miller, Runaway country is brought to you by Oneskin. Guys, can we talk about New Year's resolutions for a sec? January used to be about totally reinventing yourself, and now it's more like doing an honest audit of what is actually working and doubling down on that. For me, that means taking my skin health seriously, which for me has meant using one skin. They have this body moisturizer that will make your skin feel like it is a month of July and not the month of January, which is a plus in my opinion, because my skin is very dry in January and I love nothing less than dry skin and Trump's imperialism, but there's no moisturizer for that. All of this is to say I know that I'm supporting my long term skin health at the cellular level, which is really where you want to be supporting your skin. At the core is their patented OS1 peptide. 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- [24:34]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [24:35]
Alex Wagner
Where I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Like I don't.
- [24:40]
Tim Miller
Yes.
- [24:40]
Alex Wagner
I don't have a handle on this one at all.
- [24:42]
Tim Miller
I'm just grasping for other people out there who are like, you are also touching ground with me right here on the screen.
- [24:50]
Alex Wagner
Are we on Earth 1 or the real Earth 1? Earth 2. Divide seems pretty concretized in this moment. Like, I do not, I do not know how you look at what unfolded in Minneapolis and you look at that video from all those different angles and you see anything other than a woman who is enraged by what's happening in her community and like doing the best she can to stand up to that and is like, I guess, overwhelmed. There's some scuffle. It doesn't feel like she's out there trying to murder ICE officers and then is shot by someone. Clearly there are people that genuinely believe Renee Goode was a domestic Terrorist and want these ICE crackdowns to continue.
- [25:35]
Tim Miller
You just can't tell me this guy was really in danger. Maybe he thought he was in danger because he wasn't paying attention, because he was distracted, because he's moving his cell phone from his right hand to his left. Maybe thought he was in danger because he was triggered because he had been. Whatever run over dragged a couple months before. Those are at least plausible things to say that in the moment he got confused and thought he was in danger, or he had PTSD and thought he was in danger. I don't know if I buy those, but that's at least something that is a plausible explanation for this. The idea that he was aware of his circumstances, that he was acting in an appropriate manner, and that he genuinely thought he was in danger, and he genuinely thought that the response to that would be to shoot three times, including twice after the car had already been passed him. And I don't know how the evidence gets you anywhere near that. I mean, just one other anecdote nobody ever brings up. I like to bring it up, is like, there were other agents there, right? Like, if it was that dire of a situation, if we're in that kind of crisis situation, and you'd think they'd be worried for their colleague and they might to have taken their weapon out or gone to draw their weapon or aimed it at the tire or whatever you're supposed to do. They didn't do that. Right. Because he wasn't in danger. We've just seen the video. I say this tongue in cheek, but just because I feel like it's very true. I've never been a cop. I've never been a law enforcement agent. I've never been a soldier. But I have been in a parking lot where people are trying to drive out and not paying attention and are looking at their phone. And I know what I. We've all been in that situation. Somebody's not paying attention, you kind of jump out of the way of the car. And maybe I've smacked the side of a car before and been like, pay attention, bro. You don't take out your gun and fire three times. You don't murder somebody. And that's the thing. And it pains me that people are trying to find rationalizations for this, especially after we saw the video of how she was behaving before. And the whole thing is very, you know, it's enraging. It's sad, and like, ugh.
- [27:47]
Alex Wagner
You know, I mean, I think to your broader point about, like, the vengeful spirit Being part of us. I was listening to your excellent podcast with Sarah and jbl, the next level.
- [27:59]
Tim Miller
Thank you.
- [28:00]
Alex Wagner
When you guys were contemplating whether the country actually part of the rationalization is because the country sort of wants authoritarianism.
- [28:08]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [28:08]
Alex Wagner
Or parts of the part that it's like, it's desirous of this kind of sick relationship between citizenry and leader. And you guys were kind of tossing back and forth around, like, the idea of, like, whether this is, like, the beginning of the end and also whether we should expect more of this. Right. Because Trump is in a weakened state and is a cornered animal and is gonna be lashing out and doing ever more dangerous, reckless things. And in situation has absolutely thrown kerosene on the fire by calling Renee Good a domestic terrorist and kicking local police. You know, things are awry when, like, local police are becoming, like, are siding with activists. Right?
- [28:53]
Tim Miller
Like, yeah, that's what Mayor Fry was like when I, you know.
- [28:55]
Alex Wagner
Exactly.
- [28:56]
Tim Miller
He said that several times. Like, the cops here, which obviously, after George Floyd, had some pretty tenuous relationship with the community. It's not like the community's looking to the local police and they're like, guys, ladies, help us here.
- [29:08]
Alex Wagner
Exactly.
- [29:09]
Tim Miller
That's telling.
- [29:10]
Alex Wagner
I just wonder, you know, this is the stunning behavior on the part of DHS and the administration to not only not even, like, express sympathy, not even express, like, that sort of benign middle ground of, like, let's wait till all the facts are out. But to say we're gonna double down on this and to basically give a license, ICE agents across the country to continue to behave like this. It's not a fucking surprise that two people are shot in Portland the very next day. And the sense of despair and hopelessness and rage that that fuels within people who find what's happening here appalling and abhorrent and undemocratic and un American. It just feels like we're in this insanely escalatory moment of American politics with a complete madman at the captain's wheel.
- [30:04]
Tim Miller
They want the escalation. So that's the part. And so I'll do the bad part first. And then I have one kind of caveat that it's gonna take a lot of pain to get there, but.
- [30:15]
Alex Wagner
Well, we can talk about Joe Rogan. Maybe that's a like crowd.
- [30:19]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Okay, so here's the caveat. But before we get to the caveat, they want an escalation. The snuff videos that they've been putting out for a while show, I think we can say for 100% certainty, not guessing because they've basically said it, that they want people to self deport. They want to scare immigrants. We know that that's part of their strategy. They want to scare and menace immigrants so that people leave on their own. They have not said this as clearly, but I think that we can infer with pretty high level of confidence that they want to protesters to escalate and they want confrontation so they can grab more power. Whether that's a rationale for the Insurrection act or for some other step short of that that allows them to crack down more and consolidate the power that they have politically, but also the security state has. They've done nothing to make you think otherwise. Right. That they're interested at all in de escalating or that whatever, they're not, they want to escalate because they want to use that as a pretext for continuing to expand their power grab. And then the other dark part of that, which you referenced at the beginning that we were talking about with Sarah and JVL on the bulwark was I do think there's some percentage of the right that wants that. We don't know what the number is. I think JVL is the darkest of us. He was positing like 80% of the Trump voters want authoritarianism.
- [31:55]
Alex Wagner
Yeah, 80% of the Trump voters.
- [31:56]
Tim Miller
I think, yeah, maybe it's not that high. It's a significant group, but I think that it is important enough for us to look at it clearly. I think this is a problem that is far greater on the right as far as people who really crave kind of, I want state power against my foes, I want other people punished. I'm going to side on behalf of the jackbooted thugs, but I think that like the abuser mentality, there's like a little bit of that everywhere. Like some of the left, I see this sometimes. People are very excited for crackdowns on Mecca, folks. You could imagine. I've been on some shows where people are already thirsting a little bit for getting back in power in 2021 and giving them back, you know, totally.
- [32:36]
Alex Wagner
That's this. Get what you got. Like fuck off. You wanted to do this to us. Try the shoe on the other foot.
- [32:42]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And some of that's rational and they're.
- [32:46]
Alex Wagner
Well rational, but maybe not advised. Not advised, exactly.
- [32:49]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Prudent. And some years well advised in others. Right, yeah. So I think that that is just. We do have to sit with that and that's tough. But the Joe Rogan point, my caveat to that is America does have kind of like a don't tread on me libertarian spirit that gets us in trouble sometimes. That I do think that there is a subset of, and we're seeing this in the data now of Trump voters even who are like, nope, I actually meant the don't tread on me on the flag. I didn't mean tread on me, daddy. This was not like, tread on. When I put that flag up. That's what I meant. I didn't mean, no, go tread on my neighbor, daddy. And so that's a smaller contingent, I think, than we would have hoped, we're coming to realize, but potentially a big enough contingent to cause them some political problems.
- [33:44]
Alex Wagner
Okay, let's play this Joe Rogan. This is Joe Rogan doing his Joe Rogan thing where he makes the Internet explode because he says something critical of Trump. So this is what he said yesterday.
- [33:53]
Michael Moore
It's also very ugly to watch someone shoot a US Citizen, especially a woman.
- [33:59]
Tim Miller
In the face, where it's like, I'm not that guy.
- [34:03]
Michael Moore
I don't know what he thought.
- [34:04]
Tim Miller
And again, this is a guy who.
- [34:06]
Michael Moore
Had almost been run over, but it just looked horrific to me. I mean, when people say it's justifiable because the car hit him, it seemed.
- [34:17]
Tim Miller
Like she was kind of turning the car away.
- [34:19]
Alex Wagner
So, Joe. This is not the first time Joe Rogan has dipped his toes into the immigration debate. He's come out and been critical of Trump's immigration dragnets and said, like, they're not arresting the worst. The worst. They're arresting gardeners and construction workers. Does it. Does it matter? I mean, it didn't stop anything. I don't feel like. I mean, I think it's not a bad thing for the body politic that you have powerful voices like his coming out and being critical. But I just wonder how much stock we should put into this being the beginning of the tip of the spear of the resistance.
- [34:49]
Tim Miller
I don't know if it's the tip of the spear of the resistance. Always you get into this sort of dialogue, and it's like, well, do we want to be allies with them? And he also said some bad things. And I think the first hour of that pod. I didn't actually listen to this podcast, but we have a. I have a nerd.
- [35:03]
Alex Wagner
It's long.
- [35:03]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I have a nerd that does 2x.
- [35:07]
Alex Wagner
Very dehumanizing.
- [35:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it is. It's a dehumanizing job. And he'll just kind of let me know what happened so that I'm talking about it. I'm not misrepresenting. And he's like the first hour of this podcast before Joe Rogan says some bad things about ice, some things that we would find appealing. He does like vaccine and ivermet, you know what I mean? He does weird health talk for like an hour before the pro rfk, pro Bobby talk. So we don't have to be saint him. But I do think there is a genuine discomfort among a lot of people that were a pretty fucking key demographic, whether it was the Obama, Bernie Trump bro crowd who really exists. Maybe we talk about them a little too much, but they were pretty meaningful in close elections and are pretty meaningful about the future of where the country's going. Cuz they're influencing a generation of younger guys who are all going to be out there running profits themselves. And I think that most of them, Theo Von Rogan, Tim Dillon, that crowd, they just aren't into the whole cops fucking with people thing. And you played that clip where he was talking directly about Minnesota. There's another clip later where he's talking about a guy that he relies on who's like, this is such a Joe Rogan thing. He's like a Mexican ex military guy who he goes to for cartel information anyway. And he's like, I was talking, yeah, I was talking to this guy who I usually go to for cartel information to talk about how the Democrats are wimps about the cartels and how we should bomb Mexico or whatever. And he's like, the guy was telling me this story about this 20 year old who got sent back to Mexico, who was brought to America when he was one month old and he didn't do anything, he got sucked up in a raid. And Rogan is genuinely mad about this. He's like the guy he's saying to Rand Paul, I think is the guess. He's saying this guy doesn't even speak Spanish and we kicked him out of the country, back to his other country. He doesn't know what to do.
- [37:09]
Alex Wagner
This is bad. You just found this out that this is happening.
- [37:12]
Tim Miller
Well, I know, but it's genuine, I guess is my point. And so that means that there's a wedge there, that there's something that can be worked with. Not that it's gonna be whatever, not that he's gonna be great or you know, not that we want Joe Rogan to be the president next, but that there's a genuine wedge there where people in Trump's coalition are like, no, this is not what I'm signed up.
- [37:36]
Alex Wagner
More of my conversation with Tim Right after this quick break. Runaway country is brought to you by Helix. The days are short and cold, but these long nights are warm and cozy thanks to my new mattress from Helix. You can't chase down a runaway country, let alone easier tasks like, I don't know, parenting to hellions unless you are well rested. So sleep is this guy's top priority. Helix makes sure that happens by crafting a mattress that is built for you. Their website has a sleep quiz which matches you with the perfect mattress. Not unfortunately the perfect person to sleep with. But anyway, I digress. Their website has a sleep quiz which matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs like mattress softness and whether you run. In the words of Justin Trudeau's girlfriend, hot and cold. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand. Its products are tested and reviewed by experts at Forbes and Wired and Helix delivers your mattress right to your front door with free shipping in the United States. Plus, you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. Their Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. And every mattress comes with a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. For my data oriented listeners. Helix ran a study which found that 82% of participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress. How's that for data? Go to helixsleep.com Alex for 20% off sitewide that is helixsleep.com Alex for twenty percent off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name Runaway country after the checkout so they know we sent you helixleep.com Alex Runaway country with me Alex Wagner is brought to you by Zebiotics and this year I am focusing on a small shift that makes a huge difference. Effortless presence. It sounds counterintuitive, but for me that means planning ahead so that I can truly live in the moment. Especially when enjoying a few drinks. My simple trick for staying balanced is taking Zbiotics Pre Alcohol Before I start Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. And here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct and not dehydration that is to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre Alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make Pre Alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have Zbiotics pre alcohol before I have drinks, I notice a real difference the next day. I mean, I went on vacation with my two children, which is mentally taxing, shall I say, even in the best circumstances. And so, you know, in order to get through that period, I certainly had a few celebratory, I want to say, medically induced cocktails. And the reason I did that and the reason I could feel comfortable enjoying myself is because I had my Zbiotics with me. And the next day when they woke me up at 5:45 every single day, I was like, wham, bam, bam, should we go play beach volleyball? I would not have been able to do that without those magical little zebiotics vials. Are you ready to try it? Go to zbiotics.com Alex right now. You will get 15% off your first order when you use Alex at checkout. Plus it is backed by a 100% money back guarantee, so there is no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com Alex and use the code Alex at checkout for 15% off. I also want to draw everybody's attention to an incredible piece of reporting in ProPublica where they talk about the use of chokeholds that are banned, that are not allowed in DHS policy manual or use of force manual. And then there are all the instances of ICE agents, videos of ICE agents using chokeholds on citizens and noncitizens alike. And there's this one story of a 16 year old kid who's an American citizen whose father is being chased by ice, whose father runs into a restaurant supply store. The kid's trying to videotape the whole thing, gets thrown to the ground by ICE and is in chokehold. And you see these stills of him and there's this kid on the ground, presumably screaming. They're still photos. He's in a chokehold. It looks barbaric. This is a restaurant supply store. And right on the corner of the frame there's a guy with like a rolly cart of like merchandise.
- [42:22]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [42:22]
Alex Wagner
And you see him through the, like the, you know, you see him through the series of photos, just kind of, just kind of pushing the cart, looking askance, kind of like. That looks fucked up.
- [42:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [42:33]
Alex Wagner
And I get it, like sometimes when something horrible is unfolding in front of you, you don't know how to react. But I do think the Renee Goode thing exists in a special space because it is a white woman who is in a suburban part of Minnesota and is driving a Honda. And it should promote national outcry and outrage. But, like, there is really horrible, violent shit happening to brown people in this country regularly and in circumstances that you can't even like, you can't even, like, look the other way. But people are like, whether they're actually in the frame of the photograph or whether we as a collective sort of citizenry are just kind of like. I just worry that the brutality of all this is getting normalized in a way that really makes me worried about what the next two or three years look like. Right. Like, right. And the fact that, like, people think this is all warranted because they didn't come to the country. Well, what happens when they start coming after you because they don't like the yard signs and they think that you're not like, you know, Trump's out there saying the enemy from within. And I don't mean to sound like a paranoid tinfoil hat conspiracist, but I genuinely worry that, like, the rhetoric has gotten so violent, the actual practices are so barbaric, so violent, so public, and people are just rolling the merch cart through the Home Depot.
- [43:53]
Tim Miller
People are definitely rolling the merch cart through the Home Depot out there. I guess I would say just anecdotally, I feel like I've just heard from some of my non political people in my life who've woken up a little bit the past week or two. Again, just anecdotes. I think that maybe that's changing. Does it take a white woman with, you know, stuffies in her passenger seat to make that happen? Maybe. Does that say something deeper that we should talk about? Sure. I was mocking him, like the Joe Rogan thing. It's funny that he's like, the fact that the guy doesn't speak Spanish. It was like this key argument point about why it was bad that we deported him back to his home country.
- [44:28]
Alex Wagner
Where it's kind of like he might belong here.
- [44:30]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it was like, if he spoke Spanish, would it have been worse or better? Why is that meaningful? But I noticed this. I've been trying to do these compilation videos of, of the worst behaviors of ice. And I was just thinking about this yesterday. There was one video is coming from two perspectives. And one of the video, the person yelling has a really thick accent. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, maybe if we use the other one, it will feel a little less. You know what I mean? And that's a bad. That's probably a wrong. I think it's just real. It's a bad instinct. It's an instinct that I wish we didn't have, but I think it's a reality. People need to be persuaded. And so I don't know, I mean I think that at some level we've seen some persuasion. The ice's approval is down a lot. But in the meantime, every time I say, I'm sure you get this too. Every time I'm like, there's some good signs, they're getting less popular, they're being pushed back in the. I get emails and stuff, response from people and it's like, but it's still horrible and they're never gonna be elections again. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be fucking bad. He got elected and he's got three more years left left. So I think that there's an unimaginable amount of dark stuff coming. But I think we can analytically also say that this campaign is failing. Yeah, well, I don't know if it's failing, but it's presenting some opportunities for opponents, I guess politically.
- [45:57]
Alex Wagner
I think the thing that disturbs me the most about this moment is it's like after Trump won I was like, oh, I guess we are a more racist country than I really realized. It's not that I thought we were in a post racial society. I'm not John fucking Roberts, right? But after Obama was like oh shit, this is a snapback. But now it's something, it's a completely different beast where I'm like wait, wait a second. It's not like Harvard professors were out there shooting anti vaxxers. Do you know what I mean? It is not as if I get it, liberal elites out of touch, the economy, et cetera, but the distilled hatred that we have seen in this moment. She was a lesbian, she's a domestic terrorist, she didn't deserve. I hate using this cause I feel like it feeds into every stereotype of liberal. But the otherizing of this person, right, the dark misogyny, it's like where the fuck did this come from? Where did this come from? What did the left do to earn this over the course of the last two decades? Do you have a thesis? Was it just all Skip Gates? I mean that's what Ben Shapiro thinks. The beer summit that really made the right feel ostracized. It's just that fucking Obama talking about race and you know, giving the race speech like that warranted this?
- [47:13]
Tim Miller
No. Well, in Ben Shapiro's mind it did, apparently. Look, I think some of this stuff is dormant and just existing. And I, you know, I feel like you have these conversations and, like, people are complicated. You know, people have. Have, you know, various levels of kind of racist animus in themselves or hatred of other people, and it kind of, you know, you can feed the parts of you that have hate or feed the parts of you that, like, want to have grace, you know, and. And that's just. That's too human. So I think that Trump has fed a lot of people's hatreds, and so I think that's part of it, you know, And I think that people have. It feels good to all of a sudden be like, oh, wait, I can. I can say what I really think about this right now. You know, I can make that comment that I was. I was self censoring, and I'm blaming the libs that I self censored. The thing I always say about all this is I was like, you could have said pussy. And what was the two words you want to say? Pussy and retard. I was like the guy that was complaining about that to the ft, he's like, I can say it again. I'm like, you could have said it last year. I don't. You know, nobody was stopping you. There were no cops.
- [48:16]
Alex Wagner
It's all about pussy and retard.
- [48:18]
Tim Miller
Great. There were no cops.
- [48:19]
Alex Wagner
Mistakes have been made. What?
- [48:21]
Tim Miller
So anyway, that was part of it. I do think that some of it, though, is. And I think this is. There are elements of this that are totally crazy and people need to get over it. And there are elements of this that are legit. That just, like, I think people felt like the culture was getting away from them, right? And that, like, they were not, you know, and that, like, people besides them were getting awarded and honored. And this just. This is a kind of stupid thing that comes to mind. But I just. Dang, I'm blanking. I'm bad at, like, I'm bad at actress names. This is a gay problem. I should be better. Who's the.
- [48:55]
Alex Wagner
Are you kidding? The gays love the actresses.
- [48:57]
Tim Miller
I know. This is. This is a gay weakness I have.
- [48:59]
Alex Wagner
Oh, a gay weakness.
- [49:00]
Tim Miller
I should be better at this.
- [49:02]
Alex Wagner
What is it?
- [49:03]
Tim Miller
The one from One Battle After Another. The Black Woman Chase Infinity.
- [49:07]
Alex Wagner
Teyana Taylor.
- [49:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, Teyana Taylor.
- [49:09]
Michael Moore
Thank you.
- [49:09]
Tim Miller
Teyana Taylor. Teyana Taylor gives a speech yesterday, and I saw a social media post from one of the social media guys. It was like, oh, great. The 400th black woman to win an award. Congratulations. You've really Broken the glass ceiling, you know what I mean? That kind of thing. But I think that that is what the feeling was, is that like they can't get awards anymore because they don't want to give them to white guy. You know, whether that's crazy.
- [49:36]
Alex Wagner
Poor Timothee Chalamet.
- [49:38]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [49:38]
Alex Wagner
Can't get fucking any acclaim for playing fucking ping pong game.
- [49:42]
Tim Miller
Don't you love Timothee Chalamet in the white?
- [49:44]
Alex Wagner
I love Timothee Chalamet, but I'm just.
- [49:46]
Tim Miller
Saying, like, yeah, yeah, white guy's still doing okay. Leo did. Leo did fine.
- [49:50]
Alex Wagner
Leo did okay. They're all okay. Sean Penn's there smoking a fucking cigarette at the Golden Globes in the audience. Like they're okay. They get a pass.
- [49:58]
Tim Miller
So, yeah, I think that there's like a combination of all of that, like, loss of power, feeling like, you know, things were being taken away from them, you know.
- [50:08]
Alex Wagner
That isn't going away though.
- [50:09]
Tim Miller
No.
- [50:10]
Alex Wagner
Like part of the reason they were losing power is because they just weren't competitive. Like, wake up and smell the fucking coffee. If you want to fucking win, you gotta be good. And like, for the first time we were looking at the like, playing field and we were like, oh, yeah, actually, maybe the woman is maybe more qualified for this position here. Maybe, maybe the person of color actually deserves this job. And it was like, well, wait a fucking second. The system was rigged for me and we better re rig it because otherwise I'm fucking mad and I'm gonna shoot everybody. Like none of that hostage taking society shit, like, works, I think generally as far as a democracy.
- [50:43]
Tim Miller
But anyway, I think they feel like they'll I just being candid. I think they feel like they have clawed it back. I mean, like, I don't know, I think if you ask a lot of MAGA folks, like, what have been the big successes of this? Oh yeah, of this Trump. They would talk about getting rid of DEI and the border. Like that's what they would say. It's not like, oh, my 401k is a lot better, or oh, we've advanced freedom or cut a lot of red tape or whatever other traditional republican things you could think of.
- [51:10]
Alex Wagner
Yes, they made it difficult to hire.
- [51:13]
Tim Miller
DEI and we've shut down all of the influx of brown and black people coming from other countries. And I think that they would see those as successes.
- [51:23]
Alex Wagner
Yes. And I think the sort of pernicious gains are those where it's like they've actually made it harder for people only on quote, unquote, merit who are People of color or women to get jobs before fear of the institution hiring them may be seen as engaging in affirmative action. I mean, like, it's so fakacta. But. But I have hope that there will be some kind of correction after all this, because, again, I genuinely believe, crazy though it is, that women and people of color and whatever, people who have not traditionally been in, like, the C suite, actually deserve to be there on their own accord, and we will move towards a more balanced and equitable society. Donald Trump be damned. Do you think, Tim, I ask this in a week. Well, I just do. I mean, I have to as well. A woman who's, like, half brown, like.
- [52:10]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [52:13]
Alex Wagner
I think it matters. And I will say my conversation with LAPD Police Chief Michael Moore, not the film director for everybody who hasn't listened to that part of this podcast yet, he does have criticism for ice. And you interviewed the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry, who really clearly expresses a solidarity with the police department. The police department seems firmly rooted against ICE and federal overreach here. The state is suing the federal government for its involvement. I think the engagement of the police in a way that they traditionally are not, in moments like this, on the side of activists and people who are decrying ISIS actions, is meaningful for a movement that literally has bumper stickers about backing the blue, Right? Like, the blue don't back what the fuck ICE is doing. And everybody. Like, I think as much as Joe Rogan matters, I think the involvement of, like, police folks looking in this and saying, this is. And not just Renee Goode, but all of the ICE stuff is so chaotic. It's so dissonant. It's so transparently awful, and it's unfolding everywhere in communities that are not used to this kind of stuff. I think that actually might be. Maybe for me, I think that's an incredibly significant development.
- [53:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I've heard from cops that are like. And retired cops and stuff that are like, we don't wear masks. They're mad about the masks, too. Like, I don't wear masks. Their whole rationale, it's like, oh, you have to wear a mask because you might get doxed. It's like, you don't think that regular beat. You don't think that other cops in history have been doxxed. You don't think that bad guys, criminals in a community have tried to menace police officers or their families or people around them to try to intimidate them. It's like, have you ever watched a fucking cop show or a documentary or what are you talking. So regular cops that do the job right, I do think are mad Jacob Fry was positioning the Minneapolis police force as that I'm not there. I don't know what the real feeling is of the 5, 600 police officers.
- [54:22]
Alex Wagner
In Minneapolis who are grossly outnumbered, vastly outnumbered by ICE agents.
- [54:26]
Tim Miller
Hopefully they are. Hopefully. Hal. Mayor Fry characterized it, characterized it as correct. Hopefully it is. But I'm glad he's doing it that way because I agree with you. I just think it's important, it's important to broaden out as much as possible the opposition to this and demonstrate this is not some, not what they want to paint it as. They cannot gaslight a country into thinking this is a bunch of anarchic progressives that want to burn everything down against people that want law and order. That is a winning frame for the administration.
- [55:10]
Alex Wagner
It's crazy to me that we're talking about this. There's even presumption this is like an anarchic revolution being led by people like Jerome Powell, the Fed chair, Senator Mark Kelly, a military veteran, and like a mom in Minneapolis in a Honda. Like, this is not what anarchy looks like. This is what citizen led resistance to autocracy looks like. More from Tim in just a second. But first, the situation in Iran is escalating and it is very, very alarming. Iranians have taken to the streets repeatedly over the past 17 years to protest the authoritarian government. But right now, the demonstrations are appearing to be the largest yet, and the regime is cracking down with brutal force. To understand how the country got there and what Trump is threatening to do in response, tune into Crooked's foreign policy podcast, Pod Save the World. This week, hosts Tommy Vitor and Ben Rhodes unpacked the latest out of Iran, Venezuela and the growing threats to Mexico and Cuba. Plus, they sit down with Jason Rezaian, an Iranian American journalist who was wrongfully detained in Iran 10 years ago. Tune in to Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. Runaway country is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Okay, so I have a couple of personal goals for 2026. Like, I would like to sleep more. I would like to get less stressed out when my children kick each other in the mouth. I would like to finish a book. I have seven in rotation right now. I would like to work out more than I do. I'm not gonna name hours per week because that would make me feel ashamed of myself. So there are a lot of goals. Some of them will be achieved this year, most of them will not. But I'm Setting out with optimism and tenacity. It is hard to find people who are so good at what they do and like on all fronts. Right? We're not perfect. It's like if you're hiring, how can you find the best people for all the different roles on your team? Well, it's easy actually. ZipRecruiter and right now you can try it for free@ziprecruiter.com Runaway ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to find top talent so you don't waste time or money. You can find out right away how many job seekers are in your area and are qualified for that role. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all of your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself. You can just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com Runaway again that's ZipRecruiter.com Runway ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire this season everyone deserves a little more and Mazda delivers with the extended driving range of the CX50 Hybrid so you can spend more time together. Standard all wheel drive in every Mazda CUV including the CX5 and room to bring everyone with three row seating in the CX90. Find more reasons to celebrate the season at the Mazda More to move you sales event.
- [58:29]
Tim Miller
Every Mazda CUV offers you an elevated driving experience and refined performance.
- [58:35]
Alex Wagner
Discover it at your local Mazda dealer.
- [58:37]
Tim Miller
Today.
- [58:43]
Alex Wagner
I do want to get your thoughts on like this sort of resistance movement being led by the Fed chair, being led by someone like Mark Kelly who is not a fire brand at all, who is like a consummate moderate and sort of whether there's a new playbook being developed. Right. Kelly is launching a lawsuit. Jerome Powell goes to the Internet and makes a statement and just kind of how you're thinking about those things in a week where it seems like this sort of the ramp up to full blown dictatorship is inexorable.
- [59:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I've got a broader thought about this. I'm in the home, you guys. I'm in real progressive resistance turf right now. Okay. It's crooked and stuff. So I'm speaking to the resistance. So I have a broader kind of point about this. We can talk about the Stokes if you want, but I think there are a lot of people that are within the coalition arguing about what to do. There feels like there's this and Maybe I can see this clearly as somebody who came as an outsider, but there's this vestigial war from Bernie people versus Hillary, people that is, like, still happening about, like, well, the moderates don't know how to fight, or the progressives don't know, or the progressives are screwing us up with their whatever. And I just think that anybody who is stuck in that is, like, not seeing clearly what's happening right now, because I think that, like, across the ideological divide, you see examples of Democrats who, like, understand what the moment is and how to push back against this. And across the ideological divide, you see ones that don't. And I think, just as some examples, AOC has been awesome about Minneapolis and her gaggles that she does it her own way. But as she's been very clear, that's one. Chris Murphy's been very good. Some Random House members people might not hear of, like, Pat Ryan is super good. And then you mentioned Jerome Powell and Mark Kelly. Not the vanguards of progressivism or not. People that have probably been to a lot of protests in their life, and they are recognizing that this is an authoritarian power grab and that you've got to have backbone and stand up to it and speak clearly and not mince words. And I think that's good. And to me, that's how I kind of see the dynamics right now. There was. My colleague Lauren Egan has a newsletter that covers the Democrats called the Opposition for the Borg. And within the Senate caucus right now, there's an internal debate about whether to use this next budget round to fight ICE or not, and whether that's an appropriate fight for them. And Chris Murphy, who I mentioned, is one of the ones that's like, yeah, we can't vote for anything that funds this stuff. And there are Democrats, again, across the ideological divide within the. It's maybe a little bit more of a generational thing, but not entirely. Who are kind of like, well, we gotta use the. We gotta go through the right process and we gotta use the. And this isn't the moment to do, you know, like, all these.
- [61:44]
Alex Wagner
It's like their vestigial. Is it the vestigial tail? Like, why we have tailbones is because we used to be lizards or whatever. Right, Right. It's like, the institution's gone, dudes. The institution is gone. Protocol is gone. Like, you just. You don't need that tail. It's not gonna come back into use anytime soon.
- [62:02]
Tim Miller
Yeah. So I don't know. I just think that, like, if you're worried about protecting the institution of the Senate or you're worried about focusing on focus grouped consultant talking points or if you're focused on throwing spitballs in the Ezra Klein versus populist leftist ta.
- [62:26]
Alex Wagner
Nehisi could.
- [62:27]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's like, guys, wake the fuck up. Stop. Like none of that stuff is what matters right now. Like, deal. Find out, you know, do all that in 2029. So I just think that there are a few categories of people that, that cut across the. The resistance who are really demonstrating how to do it. And some who like, I think are out to lunch on what we're facing right now.
- [62:52]
Alex Wagner
I did not think Jerome Powell was going to be the one that was.
- [62:54]
Michael Moore
Me neither.
- [62:55]
Tim Miller
It's like, here we go. It's like, yeah, it's like, if it'd be a fun.
- [62:58]
Alex Wagner
Mark Kelly was like, you're going to fucking demote my military rank, I'm going to fucking sue you.
- [63:03]
Tim Miller
It'd be a fun little graphic to have. Like in those whole, like where they, you know, in the old magazines, like they did a cartoon where it's like in the. It's like Jerome Powell, AOC and Chris Murphy. It's like doing it right. And then it's like over here, you know, it's like. That's a weird grouping, but it is what it is.
- [63:21]
Alex Wagner
Strange bedfellows, my friend. Well, I guess we're ending on an up note.
- [63:26]
Tim Miller
Okay.
- [63:27]
Alex Wagner
Couldn't we just say that this is like, I'm a level of optimism that the fight continues, that they're advocates coming from. Not all heroes wear capes. Is that what we say in this moment? The darkness that lies within us perhaps can be, I don't know, go back to the shadows in 2029. I don't know. I worry about it.
- [63:48]
Tim Miller
It's a long way away. I know. Look, it's gonna be ugly, but. Yeah. I mean, Jerome Powell, you asked me if the, if the, if the ice. If they're losing that battle over ice, and I don't know, that's ongoing. But Jerome Powell won.
- [64:01]
Alex Wagner
Yeah.
- [64:02]
Tim Miller
You know what I mean? Like, they can be pushed back. They can, they can be brushed back. It's just.
- [64:07]
Alex Wagner
Yeah. As long as you're the chair of the fucking fed with 11 other countries having their banking representatives saying this is fucked up, and your own Treasury Secretary being like, don't do this.
- [64:16]
Tim Miller
I know. Fair. But like Tim Cook is, you know, has more cash on hand than any CEO of any company in the history of the world.
- [64:25]
Alex Wagner
Yep.
- [64:25]
Tim Miller
They. They didn't have to, like, we'll see this as a moment right now, right before we started taping this, I guess they have gone into Washington Post reporters.
- [64:34]
Alex Wagner
They've gone to a Washington Post reporter's home and seized. Raided the reporter's home because she has contacts inside the government, federal workers who are sources for her. And that is reason for the Trump administration to violate the First Amendment.
- [64:50]
Tim Miller
So we'll see what Jeff Bezos does. So, yeah, I mean, look, I mean, yeah, Jerome Powell has some cover, but a lot of other people that have moats around them are not doing the right thing. And so it's good to see that we have some people who are and are getting some points on the board. I'm gonna take that. That's a positive.
- [65:06]
Alex Wagner
We're gonna take that. We started at the bottom and we rose distinctly to the lower middle. So we're gonna go there. That's what we're good. We're gonna press this, the stop button on this podcast. Tim Miller, it is a pleasure and an honor to have you with us on Runaway Country. I appreciate you, man.
- [65:24]
Tim Miller
Great to be here. I'm now a little nervous to listen to the full interview with the LA Police chief, Michael Moore, but I'm gonna do it, so I'm looking forward.
- [65:32]
Alex Wagner
You should. It's not all bad, much like this set of analysis. It's mid.
- [65:39]
Tim Miller
That's fine. Mid, good. Low. Mid, mid to low, middle. I'll see you, girl.
- [65:44]
Alex Wagner
Thanks, Tim. That is our show for this week. As always, if you have been impacted directly by the Trump administration or its policies, send us an email or a one minute voice note@runawaycountryrooked.com and we may be in touch to feature your story. A huge thank you to everyone who has written in already. Last but not least, don't forget to check out our show and our rapid response videos on our YouTube channel, Runaway country with Alex Wagner. Runaway country is a crooked media production. Our senior producer is Ilona Minkovski. Our producer is Emma Ilick Frank. Production support from Megan Larson and Lacey Roberts. The show is mixed and edited by Charlotte Landis. Ben Hethcote is our video producer and Matt De Groat is our head of production. Audio support comes from Kyle Seglin. Our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Adrienne Hill is our head of news and politics. Katie Long is our executive producer of development. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie.
- [67:37]
Tim Miller
When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well, from roof repair to.
- [67:43]
Alex Wagner
Emergency plumbing and more done well. So the next time you have a.
- [67:46]
Tim Miller
Home project, leave it to the pros. Get started@angie.com.