Runaway Country with Alex Wagner

Episode: Trump’s Terrifying Imperial Fantasies

Date: January 8, 2026

Episode Overview

In this high-stakes episode of "Runaway Country," host Alex Wagner brings together political commentators Jon Favreau and Ben Rhodes alongside first-hand voices from the Venezuelan diaspora to dissect President Trump's shocking military intervention in Venezuela. The episode explores the humanitarian, legal, and political fallout of Trump's actions—particularly the capture of President Nicolás Maduro in an unauthorized military operation with significant civilian casualties. Wagner, Favreau, and Rhodes dig into the roots, motivations, and implications of a new, aggressive doctrine of American imperialism, dubbed the "Don Row Doctrine," and examine the specter of expansions into other nations, most notably Greenland. The episode is a blend of personal testimony and sharp political analysis, revealing a country in the grip of destabilizing executive overreach and global ambitions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Trump's Actions in Venezuela

• Summary:
  The episode opens with Wagner highlighting President Trump’s unilateral military action to apprehend Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, which involved over 150 military aircraft and resulted in 80+ deaths ([01:13]). Maduro and his wife are now detained in New York City, facing US federal charges.
• Legal and Ethical Issues:
  There was no imminent threat to the US, no congressional authorization, and a weak legal basis for the intervention, which Trump justified as a "law enforcement operation." Wagner underscores the dangerous precedent:

  “Trump is not even pretending that this is about democracy.” ([02:00] Alex Wagner)

• Oil as Motivation:
  Trump openly acknowledges the goal of controlling Venezuelan oil resources:

  “We’re going to have presence in Venezuela as it pertains to oil because we have to have.” ([02:30] Trump)

2. Voices from Venezuela: Hope, Despair, and Uncertainty

• Adelice Ferro (Venezuelan American Caucus):
  Expresses mixed relief and despair after Maduro’s arrest, fearing the regime’s “other heads” (like Delsey Rodríguez) may be as bad or worse ([04:00]).
  • Quote:

    “Every emotion got mixed with despair because he announced point blank that they were already negotiating with Delsey Rodriguez… not much better than Maduro. Actually could be at certain levels worse than Maduro.” ([04:00] Adelice Ferro)

• Nyrca Melendez (Venezuelans and Immigrants Aid):
  Describes the extreme desperation of Venezuelans, making even US intervention palatable:

  “The amount of message[s] were like, I don't care. The desperation, help me, help me be out of it…I mean, we need help.” ([05:22] Nyrca Melendez)

• Adelice on Safety in the US:
  Despite legal status, feels increasingly unsafe under Trump’s anti-immigrant policies, highlighting fear but emphasizing the need to keep speaking out:

  “I don't feel 100% safe…what is on the line is our freedom, our democracy…” ([07:00] Adelice Ferro)

3. Expert Analysis: Favreau & Rhodes on Imperial Ambition

• Trump’s Doctrine—Ambition Unleashed:
  Favreau and Rhodes condemn both the recklessness and the lack of coherent strategy. They see the Venezuela operation as a mask-off moment for raw imperialism, with future plans rumored for Colombia and Greenland.

  • Rubio’s ‘Plan’ is Eviscerated:
    Rubio’s announcement of phases (stabilization, recovery, transition) is mocked as hollow and logistically unsound:

    “The scope and insanity of that plan is absolutely stunning.” ([14:39] Ben Rhodes)

• Imperial Extraction:
  The panelists liken US actions to “East India Oil Company imperialism,” openly questioning the sanity and legality:

  “Are there gonna be US troops defending Chevron down there?…Are these oil fields gonna be rebuilt?” ([19:23] Ben Rhodes)

• Greenland as the Next Target:
  Trump’s team, especially Stephen Miller, assert US interest in annexing Greenland, openly discussing military force as an option ([21:39]).

  • Miller’s Rationale:

    “For the United States to secure the Arctic region…obviously Greenland should be part of the United States…you cannot take it off the table that the US would use military force to seize Greenland.” ([22:09] Stephen Miller)

  • Reaction:

    “There is no fucking way to witness…the rhetoric coming out of this White House and not react with quite a bit of alarm…” ([23:01] Alex Wagner)

4. Political Repercussions and Calculations

• Republican Party Dilemma:
  Trump ignores political fallout, focused only on personal legacy, territorial acquisition, and aggrandizement. Republicans, according to Favreau, are forced into complicity or silent desperation, unable to break with Trump or sell a clear benefit to voters ([32:24] – [33:15]).

• American Public Reception:
  Polls reveal lackluster and declining public support for regime change and imperial action:

  • “Taking Greenland by force” supported by only 7% of Americans ([39:14] Jon Favreau)
  • Managing Venezuela’s government garners ~23% approval ([39:23] Jon Favreau)

• Democratic Response:
  Wagner and guests ridicule cautious or “measured” Democratic responses, urging unambiguous condemnation:

  “The President…has bombed a country…to decapitate a regime that he otherwise left in place to steal their oil…you should be fucking measured in your response, you fucking cowards.” ([41:30] Jon Favreau)

5. Broader Implications: Authoritarianism at Home, Militarism Abroad

• Creeping Authoritarian Model:
  Rhodes draws comparisons between Trump and Putin, warning that militarism accelerates domestic repression:

  "When those two things converge, right? Authoritarian creep at home and military adventurism abroad, they both tend to become an accelerant on the other.” ([53:19] Ben Rhodes)

• Electoral Safeguards and Erosion:
  The conversation closes on concerns that Trump and future successors may abandon even basic electoral incentives, further relaxing checks on power ([54:22] – [55:45]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Logic of Imperialism:

  “This is completely fucking insane to just put a finer point on it. I don't even know where to begin.”
  — Ben Rhodes, [17:57]

• On Media and the Political Class:

  “Ass kissing will only just get you ass in the end. I just made that up right here.”
  — Alex Wagner, [28:09]

• On Reaction in Venezuela:

  "We have been waiting for Maduro to be held accountable for more than a decade and we have been living with Chavismo for 27 years."
  — Adelice Ferro, [03:33]

• On Public Support and Absurdity:

  “7 in the single digits… are in favor of taking Greenland by force.”
  — Jon Favreau, [39:16]

• On MAGA and Intervention:

  “The one thing that makes me optimistic… is this is a core issue for MAGA… there could be a MAGA tipping point here. That's my only source of optimism.”
  — Ben Rhodes, [58:49]

• On the Democratic Weakness:

  “If you can't say that that's bad, or you think that saying that is bad is Trump Derangement Syndrome, you may have the derangement syndrome.”
  — Alex Wagner, [42:13]

• On the Imperial Endgame:

  "Stephen Miller thinks that he's gonna be on firmer legal standing with the Alien Enemies Act by saying, oh, we really are at war with Venezuela now because we started it.”
  — Jon Favreau, [50:46]

• On Lessons from History:

  “We've learned nothing or we keep trying to forget history from a policy making standpoint. The American people fucking remember Iraq. The American people remember the cost of those wars and how little we got in return.”
  — Ben Rhodes, [35:44]

Key Timestamps

• [01:11] – Trump’s justification of regime change in Venezuela
• [03:33] – Venezuelan community perspective (Adelice Ferro, Nyrca Melendez)
• [07:00] – Ferro on safety and free speech in the US under Trump
• [12:59] – Marco Rubio lays out the "plan" for Venezuela
• [14:39] – Ben Rhodes: “This is an insane plan.”
• [21:39] – Stephen Miller's pitch for annexing Greenland
• [32:20] – Discussion on Trump’s disregard for political consequences
• [39:14] – Public polling on US regime change and Greenland
• [41:30] – Democratic “measured response” mocked by panel
• [53:19] – Authoritarianism and imperialism converge
• [55:45] – The perils of post-Trump power transfer
• [58:49] – Will MAGA push back on military adventurism?

Tone and Language

The tone is urgent, irreverent, and unapologetically critical, laced with exasperated humor and political candor. Wagner and her guests blend gallows humor with deep constitutional concern, all reinforced by first-person testimony from the Venezuelan expatriate community. Swearing and vivid analogies pervade, reflecting both the podcast’s progressive voice and the real anxiety of the moment.

Conclusion

This episode paints a dark, fast-evolving portrait of American foreign policy—one where imperial overreach, volatility, and domestic instability blend together. Through analysis, criticism, and the voices of those directly impacted, Wagner and her guests lay bare the dangers of unchecked executive action, revealing how domestic political apathy, media complicity, and opposition caution are colliding with MAGA expansionism. The episode closes with cautious hope that public backlash—from across the political spectrum—could serve as a potent, if precarious, guardrail.

For further listening, Alex Wagner recommends checking out "Pod Save the World," where Ben Rhodes and Tommy Vietor provide additional emergency analysis on the breaking Venezuela news.