Starkville | Best Of Edition- 2 of the games best Managers- Pat Murphy & John Schneider

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Windup – Starkville | Best Of Edition: Pat Murphy & John Schneider

Podcast: The Windup: A Show About Baseball
Host(s): Jayson Stark & Doug Glanville, The Athletic
Episode: Best Of Edition – Two of the Game’s Best Managers: Pat Murphy & John Schneider
Date: December 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

This "Best Of Starkville" episode spotlights in-depth, candid interviews with two standout MLB managers—Pat Murphy (Milwaukee Brewers) and John Schneider (Toronto Blue Jays). Hosts Jayson Stark and Doug Glanville tap into the philosophies, humor, leadership styles, and season-defining stories from both managers. The conversations provide insights into building winning teams, adapting leadership, balancing data with intuition, and how personal touch and camaraderie nourish a clubhouse.

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Segment 1: Pat Murphy (Milwaukee Brewers)

[02:30–29:29] Managing on a Budget: The Brewers’ Secret Sauce

Motivation and the Brewers’ Approach

• Current State: Murphy reflects on being named National League Manager of the Year, crediting his players' hunger and his club's frugal, player-development-driven ethos (03:39).
  • “I don’t know that I deserved it. Hungry players make managers look good. You know they were hungry.” (Pat Murphy, 02:38)
• Club Identity: Murphy describes the Brewers as fostering a "next man up" mentality—filling roster gaps through internal promotion and chemistry over big spending (03:39–04:52).

Year Two as Manager & Staying Present

• Murphy discusses lessons from last year and key themes for 2025: competing “in the now,” appreciating the uniqueness of each team, and living up to being a true teammate (05:18).
  • “Can you get yourself in the now, into that presence?...it’s your responsibility as one of the best in the world to compete and be a teammate the way you want to be remembered.” (Pat Murphy, 05:18–06:52)
• He notes the distraction and toxicity of “stinkin’ thinkin’”—players anxious about their contracts—vs. focusing on the game at hand (06:52).

Small-Market Mindset, Winning Mentality

• Jayson Stark points out that the Brewers, despite financial constraints, have outpaced big spenders like the Yankees and Cubs in regular-season success (07:21).
• Murphy emphasizes club culture: “There’s never a thought of, ‘Oh, wait till next year.’ There’s this year…We’ve already proven it doesn’t take budget to win.” (Pat Murphy, 07:58)

Old School vs. New School Leadership [09:02]

• Self-Description: “Old and probably need more school.” (Pat Murphy, 09:02)
  • Walks through his winding path from college coach to MLB, never feeling fully “arrived”—“I tell everybody, I’m still under construction.” (09:02)
• Data & Collaboration: Murphy values analytics as guidance, not doctrine. He shares lighthearted stories of blending front-office analytics and field experience, always challenging questionable metrics (10:00–13:26).
  • Example: “There’s a ball in Cincinnati…Michael Jordan couldn’t get it. It was a 90% catch on the defensive metrics, you know what I mean? And I’m like, well that’s wrong. So throw that out.” (Pat Murphy, 11:49)

Relationship with Front Office & Clubhouse Culture [13:04–18:25]

• Collaborative, not adversarial dynamic; Murphy invites front office to team meetings (“Ivory Tower” shirts gag) and jokes with them even as he stands his ground on in-game management.
  • “They don’t get involved in how I manage the game at all. And we collaborate.” (Pat Murphy, 13:26)
• Insights on which advanced metrics resonate (“framing” and batter-pitcher matchups), but reiterates numbers as a guide, not a rulebook.

Bob Uecker’s Legacy [19:33–22:00]

• Murphy shares a moving tribute to Bob Uecker, the legendary Brewers broadcaster, describing his genuine presence, courage during illness, and role in the clubhouse.
  • “You want to talk about a loss…Euchre’s will not be overcome. But we can honor him by saying…he never showed his pain.” (Pat Murphy, 20:00)
• Example used for the team: show up with consistent positivity, no matter what.

Manager’s “Spiritual Wall” [22:00–25:23]

• Pat displays photos of iconic players and leaders who inspire him—Derek Jeter, Clemente, Ty Cobb, Ali, Rivera, Satchel Paige, Bob Welch—each representing different ideals to pass on to his team.
  • “Jeter represents for me…not the most talented, but what he did with his ability and how he impacted others and how he led on a baseball team.” (Pat Murphy, 22:00)

Levity and Clubhouse Tales [25:23–29:29]

• Murphy’s pranks: hoodie snacks (“pouch pancakes” and “pocket bagels”), breaking bread with players, and the legendary “throwing away forks” story to mark having arrived in the big leagues.
  • “I’d be giving a talk about first and third defense or whatever and just pull out a pancake and take a bite…be like, what just happened?” (Pat Murphy, 26:03)
  • “I’m in the big leagues, bro. I can throw away the fork.” (Pat Murphy, 27:21)

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Segment 2: John Schneider (Toronto Blue Jays)

[29:29–58:30] Leadership in Toronto: Culture, Contact, and Chemistry

Welcoming Schneider—Expansion, Realignment, and Change [30:03–33:20]

• Discusses the hypothetical end of AL/NL distinction in MLB:
  • “It seems weird right? Just because of what we’re used to and what we’ve been used to for so long…But I think everyone will really adjust…We just adjust.” (John Schneider, 30:43)

Blue Jays’ 2025 Surge—Contact is King [33:27–36:48]

• This season’s team is what Schneider envisioned: creative offense, blending big bats (Bo, Vlad, George) with high-contact supporting cast.
  • “David Popkins…said he wanted to be the most creative offense in baseball.” (John Schneider, 34:01)
• Strongest team batting average, lowest strikeout rate; results from a deliberate shift towards contact and situational hitting.
  • “It’s kind of the team you envisioned, and they’ve really kind of leaned into it.” (John Schneider, 34:01–36:05)

Contact in October Success [36:05–38:22]

• Stark asks if contact translates to October wins.
  • “I think the more you can put the ball in play, the better because pitching is so good. Guys have such elite stuff now…But I think within that too, you have to have some guys that can deliver the big blow.” (John Schneider, 36:48)

Why It Clicked—Team Culture, Maturity, and Leadership [38:22–40:35]

• Assembled a roster with complementary personalities and stages of career:
  • “Every year you’re starting out…trying to get that feel where guys want to be here early, stay here late, and come do it again the next day.” (John Schneider, 38:42)
  • Highlights importance of veterans, long-term contracts (Vlad, Kirk), and competitors like Max Scherzer and Andres Jimenez to set the tone.

Embracing MLB Manager Life: Arrival and Growth [42:59–45:37]

• Schneider reflects on personal milestone moments in adjusting to the big-league manager role—learning via failure, being vulnerable, having “uncomfortable conversations.”
  • “This job takes reps. This job takes failure. This job takes scrutiny…But I think just being okay with the way you go about it and not trying to please everyone and just being your genuine self is just kind of freeing.” (John Schneider, 43:55)

Vlad Guerrero Jr.’s Extension—Lifting the Cloud [45:37–47:44]

• Securing Vlad on a 14-year extension freed the team from daily distraction and signaled a commitment to winning.
  • “It freed a lot of people up, I think, because…not only did it take pressure off of a daily narrative, but it shows everyone…what our intentions are every single year, and that’s to be competitive and try to win.” (John Schneider, 46:11)

Managing Max Scherzer—Baseball Brainiac [47:44–49:47]

• Max offers feedback daily, is a “manager on the mound” who “knows his pitch count, opposing starter’s pitch count, bullpen availability, fly ball tendencies…” (John Schneider, 47:58)
• Prepares with unmatched intensity, even assists with defensive positioning.

Automated Balls and Strikes: ABS System [49:47–52:00]

• Early impressions: “I thought it'd be a little bit better…” Adds suspense, supports fairness, and the challenge system serves as a “buffer.”
  • “To have a game be decided on human error—I just think we’re past that as a game.” (John Schneider, 50:39)

Alejandro Kirk’s First Career Stolen Base [52:00–54:33]

• Humorous celebration at Kirk snagging his first base in game 532.
  • “The ovation from the fans was epic…he didn’t let go of that thing for like an hour and a half.” (John Schneider, 54:24)
• Players and coaches had joked about it—special moment for team camaraderie.

The Weight of History—Joe Carter and Blue Jays’ Legacy [55:23–57:26]

• Acknowledges city and country’s hunger for another World Series, living under Carter’s famous ’93 World Series walk-off.
  • “You have the World Series trophies sitting in the middle of our hallway, walking out to the field, you look at them every day, and you immediately think about Joe hitting the walk off.” (John Schneider, 56:03)

Fan Culture & National Support [57:26–58:04]

• Explains the unique dynamic of having an entire nation behind the team.
  • “It’s really cool to feel support from a country…you forget that you’re being watched by an entire nation, not just the people of Toronto.” (John Schneider, 57:26)

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Notable Quotes & Lighthearted Moments

• Pat Murphy, on managing analytics:
  • “Throw that out. Michael Jordan couldn’t get it.” (11:49)
• Murphy’s “throwaway” story:
  • “I’m in the big leagues, bro. I can throw away the fork.” (27:21)
• John Schneider, on Scherzer:
  • “He’s never off. And you learn to think along with him a little bit.” (49:47)
• On the Kirk SB:
  • “He finally got one, but he doesn’t have the green light going forward.” (53:50)
• On the culture of the Jays:
  • “This city gets so electric when we’re winning. They are behind you like no other fan base.” (57:26)

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Key Timestamps

• Pat Murphy Interview: 02:30–29:29
  • Motivation & “Secret Sauce”: 03:39–07:19
  • Analytics & Collaboration: 09:02–13:26
  • Bob Uecker Tribute: 19:33–22:00
  • Clubhouse Stories: 25:23–29:29
• John Schneider Interview: 29:29–58:30
  • On Realignment & Change: 30:43–33:20
  • Blue Jays’ Offensive Philosophy: 34:01–36:48
  • Vlad Jr. Impact: 45:37–47:44
  • Managing Max Scherzer: 47:58–49:47
  • Kirk’s SB & Blue Jays Lore: 52:00–57:26

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Tone & Style

The episode weaves insightful analysis, hard-won lessons, and deep baseball wisdom with playful banter, personal storytelling, and warmth. Murphy’s dry humor and honesty juxtapose Schneider’s self-reflection and energy, with the hosts keeping the mood loose but thoughtful.

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Conclusion

This Best Of Starkville special delivers much more than managerial shop talk—it’s a vivid lesson in leadership, camaraderie, baseball culture, and the lasting impact of genuine connection in the clubhouse. Through the stories, jokes, and reflections of Pat Murphy and John Schneider, listeners are reminded why the magic of the game endures both on and off the field.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

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[Royal Match Mobile Game Promoter]

Today's trivia quiz is on mobile games. All right, I'm very excited about this one. I'm going to give you a few hints. Ready?

[Pat Murphy]

Ready.

[Royal Match Mobile Game Promoter]

This game has no ads and no need for WI fi to play. Wait, so does it cost a lot of money? Nope, it's completely free to play.

[Pat Murphy]

What? No way.

[Royal Match Mobile Game Promoter]

It has amazing graphics and they recently added a bunch of new mini games. Hold on.

[Pat Murphy]

Is that Royal Kingdom?

[Royal Match Mobile Game Promoter]

Yes. Bingo. So if you haven't played Royal Kingdom yet, go to the App Store or Google Play and download it for free.

[Pat Murphy]

Greetings and welcome to Starkville Baseball hall of Famer Jason Stark.

[Jason Stark]

And then the robot said, strike. That's why you're going in the hall of Fame.

[Doug Glanville]

And inside the park, over on Doug Glanville, Mike ch his coffee at Starbucks with a double latte skinny.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, are you ready to make some podcast magic?

[Doug Glanville]

I am ready. Bring on the magic wand.

[Jason Stark]

Let's do it. You are listening to the best of Starkville. We had so many interviews this year that we loved. We picked out a few that you might have missed so you could get a second chance to listen to them during the holiday season. So we hope you enjoy them and thanks for listening to Starkville. Doug, it's time to welcome in one of our very favorite guests, the reigning National League Manager of the Year. From those Milwaukee Brewers, Pat Murphy joins us. Murph, how the heck are you?

[Pat Murphy]

I'm doing fine, thank you. Thanks for having me on.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. So you're. Wait, you're shaking your head when I say Manager of the Year, is it not registered? That happened.

[Pat Murphy]

It happened. It happened. I don't know that I deserved it. Hungry players make managers look good. You know they were hungry.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

You didn't win that award by accident, man. You know, Doug, Murph has visited us in Starkville before and amazingly, he agreed to come back.

[Pat Murphy]

I didn't remember doing it.

[Jason Stark]

Oh, okay. That must be Eddie.

[Pat Murphy]

I'm getting older.

[Jason Stark]

I thought maybe Glanville promised you your own statue in Starkville. I can't recall.

[Doug Glanville]

I give away a lot of statues. They don't get built, though. They're just sort of virtual.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, we're having some supply chain issues. All right, let's talk about your team. People don't do that enough. You know, it was only a few weeks ago, you guys, the brewers were still three games under.500, and you were saying stuff like, we've lost some of our edge. And then you did what you always seemed to do, man. You ripped off eight wins in a row. Right back in contention. Murph, what is the secret? You always seem to find a way to motivate people, and you always seem to find that secret sauce that it takes to win.

[Pat Murphy]

I don't see it that way, but I need it today. I need to. I need a secret sauce today because I didn't like how the last three games went, and, yeah, we were on a pretty good run. We're not as consistent. That edge isn't, like, permanent. It shows and it fades. One of the things that the brewers organization has done is they've developed players. They're pretty strict how they spend, and they're pretty frugal, and they know that going in, and it. It really helps them identify kind of the right guy. I think. I think they've learned that. That if we're going to be frugal, we're going to have to get the right guy to play the right way. And I think we've adopted a style of play that is a little less common in the big leagues. I think it's becoming more prevalent. But, you know, again, they were really hungry last year. I think this year there's been some expectations. Even though we didn't spend any money and we didn't increase the budget or anything like that, we just were going from within. We lost some pretty important pieces, and they filled in nicely. And it's. It's kind of like next man up mentality. I don't know what difference that I make, but I'm really grateful to be in this spot. I think they come to work every day expecting to win.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, Marv, can we talk about sort of the year two? Right. Sort of like the adjustments you've made. You certainly been on the staff, you've been exposed to this organization, but you have these takeaways in the off season, and you're trying to bring back something that you've improved upon. You know, whether you talk about your leadership council, what small things have you had to adapt. Just because now you see it differently, because it's your second year again, I.

[Pat Murphy]

Don'T know if it's because it's my second year. It's this year. And this year is totally different from last year. We can't just dismiss last year like it didn't happen because we set some standards for ourselves of how we're going to attack it, win tonight, remain undaunted. Those were things that you can carry with you the rest of your life. Can you get yourself in the now, into that presence? When you walked in the batter's box, Doug, and it was just you and him, it wasn't about your batting average, where you're going to play next year. Are they going to resign you? Are you a free. It was about right now, this pitch coming. If you can get yourself in the now and go from there and realize how tough it is to stay in the now and how tough it is not to think ahead, not to think like, oh, what's going to happen? Or what I have to hit and get divided attention. I think that became the key this year, and I think one of the keys that we really haven't done consistently is understand that this 25 team will never be together again. And it's your responsibility as one of the best in the world to compete and be a teammate the way you want to be remembered. Because it could be your last year, you know, it could be your last time, you know, you think it's. The grass is greener. Brewers. We don't spend money. Hey, you know, we're not trying to win. Look at what all these other teams did. No, this is our 25 team. Go ahead, take that responsibility. Be a teammate and go perform in the now. Compete with freedom, because there is a freedom.

[John Schneider]

You're.

[Pat Murphy]

You're getting paid. Whatever you're getting paid. Go play and enjoy the hell out of it. If you don't want to do that, you're going to stick out. And we've had a little that. Be honest with you, A lot of guys are like, well, they're not going to resign me next year. Well, you know, they didn't resign Willie. They're not going to resign this guy. You know, a lot of guys have that feeling of, what's next. The brewers, they'll probably trade me now. I'm making too much money. That's just stinking thinking. You know, that doesn't have anything to do with tonight's ball game. And that's what we need to think about.

[Jason Stark]

Even touching on this.

[Pat Murphy]

You.

[Jason Stark]

You Know, there are teams out there, they play in small markets very similar in Milwaukee, and those teams use their market and their revenues as an excuse. And the brewers never do. In fact, here's a fun fact. Every full season since 2017, the brewers have won at least 86 games. The Yankees can't say that. The Cubs can't say that. The Phillies can't say that. The only teams are the Dodgers, the Astros, and the Brewers. So obviously, there's a mission statement. Some of it comes from upstairs. Right? What is that mission statement?

[Pat Murphy]

Yeah, I can't recite it, but whenever we're discussing anything with the front office, with the ownership, it's about building our team to win. There's never a thought of, oh, wait till next year. There's this year. And we've already proven that it doesn't take budget to win. You know, we've already proven that it doesn't take a number of star players to win. We've had players become stars while they're here. So I think the environment, probably since 2017 or maybe before, I don't. I don't know for sure, but I got here in 16, and I was witness to a lot of what was going on, and it was all about winning that night. It's uncommon, but I think you have to be an uncommon guy to want to play in this environment, or it's an environment where it gives opportunity to young players that didn't even know if they'd ever get an opportunity. And then they play with great, great thirst and hunger, and that's dangerous in our game.

[Jason Stark]

I bet a lot of people look at you as old school. I don't think that describes you. How would you describe yourself?

[Pat Murphy]

Old and probably need more school. Old, need more school. You know, I was never meant to be in the major leagues. You know, I. I was a nobody minor league player and got into college coaching at a very young age. I was actually a college football coach and then, you know, got some opportunities in baseball that I wouldn't have gotten in football. So quickly I jumped on baseball and, you know, I just moved myself up through the college ranks through good fortune and good people. And then people started telling me I was good and my ego. Stroke my ego. And I thought I was, but I wasn't. But with that being said, I got those opportunities, and that's where I thought I would end my. My time. And then through some misfortune and injustice, I get put in the program, and then that just turns out to be a great holding center. And I think I'm going to go back to college and then all of a sudden I'm in the big leagues and then I'm learning on the job and learning and learning and learning and all of a sudden I'm here. So when you take that type of path, there is no like old school, new school. For me, it's like every year is a challenge. I tell everybody I'm still under construction. I'm trying to get decent at this. I really do. I want to be decent at, I want to be good. But more than anything, I want to be impactful to people. You know, I want to be that person that if nothing else, you know, I had some impact on their lives while they were here. I know I won't be able to do it with everyone, but. And I want them to feel the love and I want them to feel the, the belief that I have in them. So when it talks about old school, new school, like if you're talking about the data that's out there, I take in all that data that's it's helpful, you know, it's helpful. They're not trying to be. Matt Arnold doesn't tell. It doesn't make the lineup. He doesn't come down and tell me who to play. He doesn't, you know, but there's a collaboration with all sorts of things and I collaborate with him on his stuff. The defensive metric we were talking about the other day, that there's a ball in Cincinnati off the top of the wall. It's a 20 foot high wall and Daz Cameron didn't quite get there and it wasn't. Nobody can jump that high to catch it. Michael Jordan couldn't get it. It was a 90% catch on the defensive metrics, you know what I mean? And I'm like, well that's wrong. So throw that out. So when you start telling me about this guy or that guy and the defensive numbers, like, ah, I got a question in a little bit. But there is something to it. All the data isn't all crazy. And they're not measuring things that aren't important, hard contact rate or, or you know, swing and miss or contact rate or, you know, how you hit the ball, the kind of your, your flight plan of, of hitting. You know, like those things have been around forever. Swing decisions, that's been around forever. How you measure them and how they can get tainted. You know, there is the way they do it these days. They say they bake in some of that into the process, knowing it's not going to be 100% accurate, but it's nothing that would surprise you. And the numbers that they bring forward, just, it doesn't get in the way. So if I'm considered new school because of that, that's fine. But these guys are trying. They're, they're hard at work every day. They put in a ton of hours how they can measure certain things to be helpful as we go forward. So why should that be in any way, shape or form a deterrent to what we want to do as people that have been in the game for 45 years? You know, it's just like, hey, I like to play the third baseman closer to the line with, with one out and a man on first or two outs of the man on first. I want to play the third baseman closer to line. But the, the people upstairs have this positioning stuff as a guide for us. Well, so what, I move them over a little bit because I know that ball down the line. Doug, you hit a, you hit a ground ball, you're at first base, and we hit a ground ball down the third baseline into the corner, you're going to score from first. If I play a little bit more on the line and take that away and you, the guy hits a single to my left, then it's first and second. We live for another day, you know, so you got to just kind of take it all in, in and then just make your own solid decisions from there.

[Jason Stark]

This is another theme that runs through Scott's book, is the tension that can sometimes exist between these data driven front offices and the manager. And so I'm curious, how much do you and your front office disagree on stuff, particularly in terms of how you run your team and how you manage the game in front of you.

[Pat Murphy]

They don't get involved in how I manage the game at all. And we collaborate. And I'll tell you, you may find this funny or what, I don't know how you'll find it, but in spring training, for instance, I tell them, if you're going to be down here on the ground level, as I call it, then you're going to be in all the meetings and you're going to be treated just like every other staff member. So every one of them I have a nickname for. I bought them all shirts. I, I say that they sit up in their ivory tower. So I bought them all shirts that say ivory tower on it. And I, I make fun of them, you know, and we have, we have a great time. I came in, one of the guys, one of their analysts who's really, really sharp. He, he came in and he had a really bad pair of shoes on, like, and he was wearing them every day to these meetings. And we're meeting with all the coaching staff and I invite all the front office in and you know, a portion of the day, because it's spring training, is good natured. This guy's shoes, I said their shoes look like Brooks coming out of Shawshank Redemption. You know what I mean? That they give the prisoners after 20 years in prison, we got to get rid of them. We had a little ceremony to burn his shoes and get him a new pair of Jordans so he could look more hip, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, we've had a great time. I mean, there's great collaboration. Arnold's a great guy. They have their ways and systems of doing things and it's very intricate how they do it. They believe in their stuff and there's no reason not to. They've had great success with it. But it doesn't come into play managing the game that often. It can be used as a guide. I can look at it and go, hey, this guy's arm on the other team is rated a X or Y or Z. Well, we play Atlanta tonight. I haven't seen Atlanta play. You don't have to tell me about Acuna's arm. I'm aware of that. But there's other guys on the team that I like. Eli White's arm, I don't really know it, so I'd like to see that number. That's fine. Now, if I totally see it in the game and it's totally different than what the paper says, then I let them know, how do you got this? And maybe there's an injury or maybe there's something else, but I don't have any problem with the information. It's helpful. Why wouldn't I want that information? Why does it offend me when they're doing an evaluation process? Why does that offend me? We're all trying to win. I, I just don't see that being. And I, I think it's this way for a lot of guys. I talked to the other managers. I don't think, I don't think anybody's, you know, making the lineups for them. I can't see that happening. What other role would you have? I mean, what, what else? They're going to give you information. They're going to recommend, hey, you know, we recommend you give this guy a day off sometime soon. His workload is this or that, and they're measuring all this stuff. You know, there's stuff in the weight room and whatever. That's great. That's only helpful. Yeah, you're right. You know, I haven't given him a day off. I probably should here someday, so. And then I weigh the situation, and we do what we do. It's pretty easy, to be honest with you. I mean, there's. There's frustrations. I want them to sign a guy, and they want to sign a different guy, but that's not my job. My job isn't signing the guys. So, you know, there's disagreements and things like that, but not very often are.

[Doug Glanville]

There any particular, you know, I guess, you know, not revealing the secret sauce. But there are metrics that speak to you more than others that you kind of over time have been like, okay, you know what? This one really seems to be, you know, a good measure of certain. Some things that I'm emphasizing with my team.

[Pat Murphy]

Not really. You know, there's not one that. It's just all measuring what we think we see. And then when we see it, we see the number and we go, wow, how can that be? I didn't have that. For instance, the framing. Okay, so we know framing's. It's obviously super important because to go from 1:1 to 1:2 or to go from 1:1 to 2:1 is a whole different ball game in the at bat. And then when we see framing numbers, we go, wow, I didn't realize that. He seems like he's so good back there, and I think it takes a lot of time to build those numbers.

[Doug Glanville]

It's.

[Pat Murphy]

It's. It's a. It's a big sample size, so I think those numbers can kind of shock us sometimes. And then we have to go back and individually look at it, and then you can kind of pick where this guy goes wrong. Wow. You know what? He really doesn't do a good job on this. Or he had this umpire three times, and he doesn't call the low pitch. And so. And so all he does is live at the bottom. So he wasn't getting that pitch. So his numbers are way down. So sometimes you have to dissect it a little bit. But truly, the numbers are only a guide. And there isn't one thing that I stick to and go, whoa. Now what they're doing lately is they're doing some bat path stuff. So they're kind of looking at this guy's bat path or normal bat path, how he gets to a four seamer up, how he gets to a two seamer and they're identifying some kind of crucial matchup saying, you know, this guy may struggle if this guy goes to all two seamers, this may be a real struggle for this particular player. And with that being said, that can guide you a little bit. Hey, good day for a Durbin day off. This guy's total 2 seam monasterio hits 2 seam or better than Durbin. They give me that kind of information and that's helpful.

[Workday Advertiser]

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[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Russell]

Hey everyone, it's Russell and Christine. So I just found this mobile game everyone's talking about. Royal Match. Gorgeous graphics and super fun puzzles.

[Christine]

Bro, you're late. I'm already at level 700. I play it every day on the subway because it doesn't need WI Fi.

[Russell]

Wait, what? I've got to catch up.

[Christine]

Oh, and they just added new minigames. They make it even more fun and challenging.

[Russell]

Alright, show's over. I'm gonna go play.

[Christine]

Download Royal Match on the App Store or Google Play today.

[Jason Stark]

Murph, this is the first season in Milwaukee without Bob Uecker in more than 50 years. And you did something this year. The first day of spring training. It seems rare to me you spoke about Uke and what he meant to your team. I don't. I can't think of another team that has ever dedicated a season to a broadcaster. It feels like that's happening in Milwaukee. Am I right?

[Pat Murphy]

He was so much more than a broadcaster. I mean, so much more like he's in the clubhouse every single day with here. The man's dying of lung cancer. Very few people knew that. Very few. And he's in there every day with a smile and you would never know he was sick and shaking hands with the player that just got brought up from AAA who has maybe doesn't even know who Bob Ucher totally is. Knows the name of course. And he's asking him about his family and he's genuine as I'll get out. And he was in his element in that clubhouse. Every day with a smile and a story and a laugh and a follow up in genuine and personal. And then I got a chance to spend half hour with him every single day or more. You want to talk about a loss and that's what I talk to the team about. You want to talk about losses, you can talk about Adamus and Williams. Those are huge losses any way you shake it. Huge losses to be overcome. Euchre's will not be overcome. But we can honor him by saying, and I use it an example in a team meeting. We meet once a month as a team and I used it in the last team meeting saying, you never showed his pain, Never. His attitude was the same every day, no matter what. He showed up for you every day. And that's what I expect out of teammates. I can't tell you how special the guy is in my life. And yeah, right till the end, you know, the text messages every day, you'd never know he was sick. You know, what an example. What an example for all of us. I wish the general public knew what I knew about who he was. You know, the comedy and all that kind of stuff. It can get lost in who the guy really is. Sitting on this couch over here every day and telling stories and talking about his life. And man, I'm blessed to have been part of this guy's life.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, Murph, I mean, if I have this correct, in your office, you have pictures on the wall that have like stories of different players. Has that wall changed this year? Have you added anything?

[Pat Murphy]

I changed Satchel's picture because I didn't like the old one I had. I put up Derek Jeter when I start thinking of players, people in sports that have influenced, I could say my life, but influenced so many people's lives, you know, they all represent something. So Jeter represents for me just he's. He wasn't the most talented, physically talented. You know, you look at Ellie De La Cruz and you do a scouting report on the physicality of Elodie La Cruz and Derek Jeter. There's no comparison. And I recruited Jeter at a high school in Kalamazoo. But the. What the guy did with his ability and how he impacted others and how he led on a baseball team, and I bet he wasn't that vocal. Did you play with him, Doug?

[Doug Glanville]

Spring training my last year. 05. So I definitely got to know him. And he's like the one autograph bat I got for my son when I retired.

[Pat Murphy]

He did it with such poise and grace and he didn't force himself. It was totally genuine. And I can imagine from what I've heard in the clubhouse and all the things that. That he was like. I mean, that just epitomizes what a real ballplayer is and did way more with his talent. Everybody sees him as way more talented than what he really was physically, but he was. He was mentally really talented. And that represents everything I want our players to know. You know, Clemente, say no more. What he did, the humanitarian, the way he played, unorthodox. Every hitting coach in the world would have changed him. You know, Ty Cobb, my dad was named after him, so it was always special to me. I didn't know anything about him. I hear the stories. I don't know what's true and what's not, but I know he played with a. With a tenacity that I would like in players. Muhammad Ali, say no more. You know, what he did for all of sport. And knowing him the way I did and knowing his wife, Lonnie, knowing behind the scenes, you know, who the guy was. Mariano Rivera. Never met him. I see humility when I see the guy. I don't know, but I just see humility. And it reminds me every day looking at him. And Trevor Hoffman is one of my close friends in the world. I was texting with him last night, and Trevor knows that I love him to death and think he's the greatest. But Mariano is special to me, and though I've never met him, because of what I see, being around the game and the humility that he showed. Jackie Robinson needs no explanation. Satchel, because Satchel played with a freedom. And you hear the stories and how he competed and how he made fun of everything, and everything was joyous and everything was, I can do it. The confidence. And I always say he competed with the freedom that you don't see. Bob Welch is up there. He's a personal friend, if anybody knows. Welchie won the cy Young in 1990, and he was a close, personal friend of mine and taught me a lot about baseball, taught me about the game, the life, you know, know. And he was plagued by demons and addiction that many of us have to deal with in our lives through family members or whatever. He died way too soon. But anybody that played with Welch, anyone will just shake their head and say, what a guy, you know, Give you the shirt off his back, do anything for you. He's just a total giver and a total teammate. And he taught me so much about the game. So that's kind of my group that I Look to for strength. It's kind of my spiritual wall, if you will, because, yeah, they represent a lot to me.

[Jason Stark]

You know, to be a great manager, you have to be a great leader. You just showed one of the ways that you're such a great leader. Another one that I always notice is guys on your team are always laughing, and I'd love to end on a lighter note. Okay. After you won the manager of the year award, our friend Adam McKelvey from MLB.com wrote a tremendous piece running through a ton of hilarious stories about you. And one of my favorites was that you're always pulling random pieces of food out of the pockets of your hoodie. What's the craziest piece of food you ever carried around with you in your hoodie?

[Pat Murphy]

That's really for health reasons. You know what I mean? We all get hungry at times. You know, sometimes I put them in places that aren't as appealing to others. If you want to share it with them.

[Jason Stark]

Do we even want to know what they are?

[Pat Murphy]

No, you don't. But I would take a bagel out every now and then and say, hey, you want a piece? Guys break bread with me before the game, you know, and some guys would fall into it, and other guys would be like, what are you doing? That was. That was just kind of a prank type thing. I didn't. Didn't. Wasn't as dirty as people think. But pancakes were big for me in spring training. I would put them in my pouch. You know, you have all the meetings in the morning and everything you get going, you don't get breakfast. I take a few pancakes and just roll them up, put it in my pocket, and start eating them at random times. Like, I'd be given a talk about first and third defense or whatever, and I just pull out a pancake and take a bite, put it back in there, be like, what just happened?

[Doug Glanville]

You know, did you have syrup?

[Pat Murphy]

No, no, no syrup. Just dry. Now, that would get it too soggy in the pouch. But oftentimes I go in my hoodie, I get some crumbs out, and I'm like, wow, what is this from? Yeah, Pouch pancakes are big pocket bagels. You can't have enough nutrition out there, you know?

[Doug Glanville]

Well, now, the silverware. Did you tell the. In the interview you talk about the silverware story?

[Pat Murphy]

Do you know about that?

[Doug Glanville]

I do. I do know about that. I had me crying.

[Pat Murphy]

Jason, you'll appreciate this. So one of the things, like, I didn't play in the big leagues, right? So I'm a minor League dropout. When I got to the big leagues, I never really felt comfortable, you know, like, as much as guys like Buddy Black and Ricky Renteria and Brad Osmus, all these guys helped try to make me feel comfortable. Trevor Hoffman, Mark Loretta, all those guys tried to make me feel comfortable. And then even when I got over here with the brewers with Counts Counts and I being so close, he was awesome to me, and I was supposed to be mentoring him, and he was mentoring me, but I never, ever felt like a worthy big leaguer. So when I became the manager last year, as a joke, I started throwing away my forks. I would use. I would use the fork to eat and whatever, and then I would just purposely, especially in front of somebody, you know, I just open the thing and throw away the fork. Would. And just not say a word. And then Matt Arnold's like, did you just throw away the fork? I'm like, hell, yeah. I'm in the big leagues, bro. I can throw away the fork. So we had about three forks left in the dining room in here, and everybody's wondering where the fork's going to. Like, Murf's telling me. I'm like, hey, I'm in the big leagues. I'm throwing away a fork. Now, it wasn't like, special silverware or anything, but I'm like, I'm doing it. So we're in Los Angeles playing the Dodgers, and Andrew Friedman and I are acquaintances. I don't know him well, but he's really close with Arnold. Obviously, they work together. So Arnold thinks it was such a kick that I would throw away the forks. So I sent a video of myself eating, like, just the plate of food, whatever, and then showed myself throwing it away. And then I panned over to the fork, and I picked the fork up, and I threw it away. I sent it to Friedman. He's like, you are not.

[Jason Stark]

It's the brewers, man. How big can the fork budget be?

[Pat Murphy]

Exactly. Now I'm eating. They. They're. They got plastic forks out there. For me, it's kind of gesture, and I'll teach you.

[Jason Stark]

We could do this all day. Nothing better than a visit to Starkville from Pat Murphy. Murph, you're the best. We love talking to you.

[Pat Murphy]

Thank you, man. I love you guys.

[Jason Stark]

Hope you enjoyed that conversation. Here's another one of our favorites. You know, Doug, we've already had one league's clear favorite for manager of the year, Pat Murphy. Join this show. Why don't we collect the complete set? Let's welcome in the man who is positioned as the favorite for American League Manager of the Year, it is John Schneider of the Blue Jays, also known to me, at least, as the pride of Lawrenceville, New Jersey.

[John Schneider]

There we go.

[Jason Stark]

Welcome to Starkville. Just as cool as Lawrenceville.

[John Schneider]

That's right. Thank you for having me, guys, on. Thank you for the kind words. It's been awesome being part of this team this year, this staff. It's a hell of a group. So good to be on with you guys.

[Jason Stark]

We're really thrilled that you're here. We got so much that we want to talk to you about regarding the Blue Jays, but Doug and I were just kicking around the commissioner's thoughts on expansion and leaning into geographical realignment in a few years after they expand to 32 teams. I asked Doug this. So I'm curious where you would stand on living in a world where there was no such thing as an American League and a National League.

[John Schneider]

You know, when that came out a couple days ago, it kind of. It just. It seems weird, right? Just because of what we're used to and what we've been used to for so long. I think that the league has done a really good job in the last couple years of adopting change, and I think that players and staff have done a really good job of kind of normalizing whatever the changes are. It's a different world, this game, than it was, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago. And I think that, you know, with fan involvement, Internet, social media, all that kind of stuff, there's so many avenues to probably grow the game. So it was interesting, you know, where. Where it would be. You know, it would definitely take some time to get used to if you weren't talking about the AL and the nl. You know, if that comes. If that comes to fruition, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of things that have to happen in order for that to become a reality. I think everyone will really adjust to it like they have, with all these new rules, rule changes, and, you know, things that kind of pop up, whether it's Covid or rules or whatever, we kind of just adjust.

[Jason Stark]

I mean, I'm sure you'll play the game wherever they send you, but I wrote a column about how this could work. A few years back. I was just playing around with different alignments. So in my proposal, I got you away from the Yankees. I moved you into a division with the Red Sox, Phillies and Pirates. Jim Bowden did this. He had you in a division with the Red Sox, Guardians and Tigers. What do you think? I actually think people in Toronto would miss the Yankees coming to town. You might not miss them.

[John Schneider]

Right. Game planning be a little different. I think it's weird what people would think. You know, when we're playing these teams, there's a certain buzz when you're playing certain, certain teams, whether it's on the road or at home. And there's a certain following that we get, you know, geographically from our fan base, Pittsburgh being a prime example, to where you can feel the support and you can feel the fan engagement. So looking at kind of who those teams would be, you know, it's. I think, you know, the Red Sox are a team that I think, you know, we match up well against and, you know, geographically pretty similar. We get a lot of support there. They get a lot of support in Toronto. It would be different. It would be different because I think when you go into every season and every, every off season and you're trying to win your division, you know, you think of Boston, New York, Baltimore, Tampa. I mean, it just kind of rinse, repeat, you know what I mean? So it would take, it would take some time to really get adjusted to it, but I think the fans would get adjusted to it just like the players would, of course.

[Jason Stark]

All right, let's talk about this magical Blue Jays season and I'm going to let Doug start us off with that topic.

[Doug Glanville]

You know, I remember we had a chance to talk in Texas, I think it was when we on the road and, and you talk about, you know, just sort of game planning and sort of the day to day and then, you know, you guys got really hot. So I'm wondering what I, you know, if I dig into numbers, for example, I see a team that is number one in batting average. Number one and on base percentage and really has the best strikeout rate in terms of putting the ball in play. So I'm always curious when, you know, you get to a certain point and things are clicking, is this the team you envisioned it would be like, is this sort of playing out or. And what have been the surprises?

[John Schneider]

Yeah, I think this is kind of what you envision. Right. When we, when we hired David Popkins for Minnesota, our heading coach, he, he said he wanted to be the most creative offense in baseball. Right. So when you look at our, you look at our personnel, we've always had guys being Bo, Vlad, George for the past five years that put the ball in play and can control the zone within that. I think then, you know, you also have those guys with Kirkey, with Varsh, they can hit the ball, you know, out of the ballpark. So surrounding those guys with guys that make contact, I think was appealing to us going into this season. And then you look at, you know, just kind of under the radar guys, whether it's Miles Straw, Tyler Heineman, Nathan Lucas, these guys kind of know what they're good at. You know what I mean? They know kind of what we're asking them to do day in and day out. So it was really from that series in Texas, I think, where we kind of got rolling. Bo hit a big pinch hit, home run, I think, in the eighth inning of a game there, and was from that day where we kind of got rolling. Not that that was a turning point in the season, but I think it kind of just got us moving in the right direction. And whenever your guys are doing it, what George has done this year has been remarkable, and I think guys kind of just follow suit. But it's been fun to watch the supporting cast, you know, Addison Barger coming up and doing what he's done, a guy that we've always viewed as having this kind of potential, stepping in and really picking up some production with Santander being out for as long as he's been out. So it's kind of the team you envisioned, and they've really kind of leaned into it. You know, they've kind of leaned into the fact that we are not out of a game. We are going to make contact. And then, you know, we have conversations daily about using our skills appropriately, you know, leaning into base running, leaning into round prevention when you do get. When you do get a lead. So it's kind of cool to watch it. It's taken a while for it to unfold with the core group of guys that are here and that have been here, but it's really kind of hitting the sweet spot of what we had at Mission.

[Jason Stark]

I'm glad we got into this. People talk about the brewers and the unique style that they play with, and I don't hear the same kind of talk about your team, but you make more contact than they make. You guys have struck out 140 fewer times than the brewers. 140. And you have the highest team average in baseball and 14 points higher than any other team in the American league. You're like 30 points higher than last season almost. I know your group has dug in on this. How important is contact in post season baseball? Is there a connection between putting the ball in play in October and success in October?

[John Schneider]

I think so, yes. You can kind of see it unfold in real time. We were Just playing the Dodgers and they have, you know, guys with some serious swing and miss stuff. And it kind of gets put to the test there. But you're going to face that caliber of pitcher every single night as you get deeper into the season and as the postseason comes. You know, we've seen it in the past couple years when you're facing everyone's number one too, and runs are at a premium. So putting the ball in play, I think A, it just puts pressure on the defense, B, it allows you to be a little bit creative if you want to bond, if you want to hit and run. And then we still have guys that can kind of hit the big blow, hit the mistake. You know, there's days where we, you know, last night is another example against Skeens, who is really on, you know, game plan being be okay with taking your knocks, be okay with taking your opposite field knocks. Hopefully he makes a mistake to somebody and we clip him. And it almost happened. Barge almost, it went out. There was a few, few mistakes that we kind of missed. He was really good. But I think that the more you can put the ball in play, the better because pitching is so good. Guys have such elite stuff now, whether it's a starter or a reliever. I mean, Velo, spin, movement, everything is at an all time high. And you got guys that can kind of combat that with putting the ball in play. I think it's very, very productive and it's very, very important, you know, But I think within that too, you have to have some guys that can deliver the big blow, you know, and we, we have some of those guys too. So you can't just paper cut them to death, you know, it's. You have to be able to provide some damage too. And, you know, thankfully for us, we kind of have a unique blend of both.

[Jason Stark]

As you know, I spend so much time around your team in spring training. I've seen the talent, I've seen the energy, I've seen the vibe in your clubhouse. I've honestly been waiting for this for the last few seasons. Why do you think that the magic carpet ride finally happened this season as opposed to the last few years?

[John Schneider]

You know, it's kind of every manager, every year you're starting out, you're trying to get that feel where guys want to be here early, stay here late, and come do it again the next day. Right? There's just something about that kind of feel in the clubhouse that you always try to get. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes it's in Between I think we've done a really good job of assembling people that we think, you know, their talent plays but their personalities play as well. Everyone that is here, that has been here, I think is at a different stage in their career than they were last year, year before, a year before. It probably helps that we extended Vladimir, you know, it probably, probably helps that George is performing the way he is, that we extended Alejandro Kirk, that we have veteran pitchers that are well established and the talk has been since day one of spring training, what are we going to do to win, Right? I say what's important now. W I n, is it a bun, is it a pitch, is it a swing, is it beaten out of ground ball? Just figuring out what's important now and for whatever reason they have just grasped onto it. I think it's just where guys are in their careers and maturity level and saying, okay, this is how we're going to play. This is how we're going to play together. We talk about it every single day. You know, it's, it helps to bring in a competitor and an established player like Max Scherzer who is not afraid to have conversations with anyone. It is beneficial to bring in Andres Jimenez and Santander on multi year deals knowing they're going to be here and they're going to be part of this. They're not coming in for a year and trying to cover up some things and help if they can and then they're out of town. These guys are here, here and they're invested. So it's been kind of trying to find the right combo of everyone and I think that they've all kind of just arrived at different points in their careers where they go, oh, this is it, you know, and it's been damn fun to watch.

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[Russell]

Hey everyone, it's Russell and Christine. So I just found this mobile game everyone's talking about. Royal Match Gorgeous graphics and super fun puzzles.

[Christine]

Bro, you're late. I'm already at level 700. I play it every day on the subway because it doesn't need wifi.

[Russell]

Wait, what? I've got to catch up.

[Christine]

Oh, and they just added new mini games. They make it even more fun and challenging.

[Russell]

All right, show's over. I'm gonna go play.

[Christine]

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[Doug Glanville]

I had a chance to talk to Kevin Gosman a couple years ago. He's with the Giants. But way before that, I covered the series at lsu, Stony Brook, which was, you know, Stony Brook's like run. And the question that I asked him was about when he knew he had arrived. Like when did he know? Like, because you know, he was a reliever, he was bouncing around, they weren't sure, the first rounder. And he said when he threw an immaculate inning and then he remembered, he said, well, actually I threw two. And it wasn't a statistical thing. It wasn't that his ERA was 1.3. It was because he threw that inning. So I, so I'm curious for you. Like, you know, you had a journey, right? You played, you caught catching instruction, you came up, you managed an A ball, you managed in double. You know, you talk about you hit the steps. So is there a moment that you kind of look back and say, okay, you know, I'm here, I'm a major league manager. This is now I'm embracing this. Like, what was that moment?

[John Schneider]

Yeah, there's a few, right? Like when you take over middle of a season, I mean it is just mayhem, right? You're just trying to win Every single day, and you get the job, and you go, okay, this job takes reps. I mean, this job takes reps, and this job takes failure. This job takes scrutiny, both, you know, from inside your staff, your players, to media, to fans. I think, really, when you say, okay, I feel pretty good about what I'm doing here, was this year, was this spring training, you know, to where you have so many conversations in the off season with players, with staff, with front office, and it's okay to have uncomfortable conversations, all of them, in order to get aligned. You know what I mean? And I think us having the year we did last year allowed us to kind of have those conversations earlier than you would have if you're in the post season or if you win the World Series, you know, so we really kind of peeled back a lot of different things, and within that comes vulnerability and learning lessons from things you've screwed up, you know? So I think going through all of that and arriving this year feeling more like myself than I have in this job before has been kind of freeing for me, you know? Has been. Not that you didn't have competence in what you were doing, but, I mean, look, I've. I've messed up plenty, you know, and I've had some. Some good decisions that. That I've made. But I think just being okay with the way you go about it and not trying to please everyone and just being your genuine self is just kind of freeing. So I think it was kind of this year where you. You feel like, okay, I've got a good grasp on this, and I know what I've screwed up, but I know what I've done well at. Let's figure out how to be in the middle.

[Jason Stark]

You know, you touched on Vlad. It certainly feels from the outside as if your team took off almost right after you signed Vlad to the extension. I know that could be an illusion. It could be a coincidence, but I also know the future of Vlad and everything that went with that has been such a topic, and not just this spring, but for years, felt like it hung over everybody in the franchise.

[Pat Murphy]

So when.

[Jason Stark]

What's been the impact of removing just that question about Vlad's future and where this team was heading?

[John Schneider]

That's interesting. You know, I've talked about this before. I think whenever the fan base in an organization can have a guy to kind of grasp onto as their guy, that's beneficial. And with that comes a lot of responsibility. And, I mean, this goes back like you said, you know, I had Bo and Vlad and a ball and double A and they're talking about the competitive window that the Blue Jays are going to have with these guys, and what are they going to do with them and who are they going to lock up. It freed a lot of people up, I think, because not only did it take a pressure off of a daily narrative, but I think it shows everyone that's involved, whether they are here now or maybe here in coming years from the outside, what our intentions are every single year, and that's to be competitive and try to win. You know, you don't lock up a player like Vlad for 14 years if you're not trying to do that. So it was freeing for him. And within that, I think he kind of took a big step forward in being the face of the franchise and understanding that, okay, now with this contract, whether he likes it or not, comes more scrutiny, more tension, and probably some more leadership. Guys are going to look at him a little bit differently. That's just how it works. So, again, having veteran guys around him and being able to talk through that with him has been cool. Guys that have been in his shoes before from a performance and contract status, that's been cool. Watching him do it every day has been cool. And I think it's. It just gives everyone something to kind of grasp onto. Again, it wasn't like a switch, okay, we locked. We locked Vladi up, so now we're going to be good. But it definitely kind of popped the balloon a little bit because you're not talking about it every day.

[Jason Stark]

You also mentioned Max Scherzer. You and I had some fun chats this spring about what it's like to manage Max Scherzer. Max has many thoughts about many things. How often does the manager get to hear those thoughts?

[John Schneider]

Every day. It's unbelievable. I mean, even he's pitching tonight, even on days he's pitching, he'll come in for five minutes before and talk through everything. You know, he's. I remember the first zoom call we did with him in the off season. I jokingly said, so what's it going to be like the first time I take you out and you don't like it? And he. His response was, I'm the easiest guy to manage. And I was like, wow. He said, I'm a manager on the mound. I know my pitch count, I know my opposing starter's pitch count. I know bullpen availability. I know how many times through the order I am. I know this guy's fly ball tendencies, this guy's pull tendencies, and he's. He's not lying you know, to watch him prepare in between his starts. I've never seen anything like it. And he has everything mapped out to almost the second that he does in his start days. Right. It's, he's involved with our positioning. You see him get very fired up when fly balls get caught. He knows he's a fly ball pitcher, so he's dug in a lot on where to position guys. And if I throw a pitch here, the ball should be hit here. He's just really, really smart and obviously one of the best competitors in this generation. I mean, you don't, you don't do this for this long, you know, by accident. You know, watching him throw his bullpens in between his starts, I mean, that in itself is like, like a movie. You know, he's got music going, he's got the opposing lineup, you know, in his head going through what he's going to throw. He keeps himself motivated. He finds ways to keep himself motivated. At 41 years old and he still has his stuff. So he's been awesome, really. You know, he's been cool to have for me, you know, talking through situations he's been through, giving me feedback. You know, like, we talk about so many things, not just pitching about base running, about hitting. He's never off, I'll tell you that much. He's never off. And you, you kind of learn to think along with him a little bit. He's been great.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. And the thing about Max is, you know, we, we had talked to him this spring training and it was around, you know, they were going through the experiment with the automated balls and strike system. And I mean, you talk about the depth of the research and the, the check, the bullet points about like, here's the advantages, I mean, and, you know, I know he got challenge. I guess it was like with Trey Turner, someone challenged like the first pitch of the game or something.

[Pat Murphy]

Right.

[Doug Glanville]

But the thing that was interesting and I guess I, you know, you just sort of went through this, right, with last night's game, as of this recording with the balls and strikes, I guess, what did you pull from the ABS and like, seeing where this could go from a standpoint of, you know, during the regular season, coming forward.

[John Schneider]

That's a good question. It's interesting. I think the collective kind of answer to that in spring training was we were kind of like, yeah, I thought it'd be a little bit better. You know, there is like an element of suspense to it when someone does challenge.

[Jason Stark]

Right.

[John Schneider]

I think it's a little good. It's good for entertainment. And even, like, looking back at last night's pitch that I was arguing. It was a strike. It was just caught. Weird. You know what I mean? So I gotta apologize to Mark today. I think. I think it's good for certain spots, right, where you don't want the. When we have so much information available and you can be objective with so many things. With replay, with slow motion cameras, with whatever. With Hawkeye, I think it's. It's good because umpiring's hard, you know, I mean, it's. It's hard. But to have a game be decided on human error, I just think we're past that as a game, you know? So, again, I think the human element part is. Is good, you know, and I respect what they do behind the plate. And I think it's nice to have a buffer. A buffer system, right? Which is the challenge system, not automatic. Every pitch is going to be called. I know Max is very outspoken about rules in general. I think that's why Trey challenged the first pitch. He said he was going to do it before the game. But I think going forward, you know, I. I think the feedback has been more and more positive from players, managers, even. Even talking to umpires around the league. You know, I think it's getting more and more momentum. And, you know, you realize that guys are trying to, you know, do the best every single pitch. And it's hard to be, you know, 200 for 200 every single night, you know, so we'll see where it goes. But I think guys are getting a little bit more bought into it.

[Jason Stark]

I've shown amazing restraint in going this long without asking you about this. Your catcher, Alejandro Kirk, did something the other day. It made my day. It sounded like it made your day. Finally stole the first base of his career in his 532nd game. Has there ever been a more exciting stolen base in Blue Jays history than that?

[John Schneider]

I can't imagine. You know what I mean? I mean, I know. Sorry, Rick. He had some big ones. Thinking back to when Danny Jansen was here, him and Kirky had a bet every year to see who can get the first mark. Budzinski, our first base coach, and I, we. I. This is a true story. We were talking about taking a couple shots. We're facing Degrom that night, right? So you got to kind of take some shots if you get on base. And we're kind of going down the list of, you know, count tendencies and, you know, this and that, and then talking about guys that I wanted to take a shot so we kind of named the usual suspects. You know, you throw maybe Ernie, you know, maybe Luki Varsh if he's feel. You know, if he's feeling good. And I was like. And obviously Kirky, you know, so we had a little laugh about that. There's been a couple times over the course of his career where pitchers have been like a 2:1 to the plate, just not even worrying about him. And. And Bud has wanted him to try to get a bag so bad. So that situation is first and third. They're playing the infield. And John. I think it was John Gray. Was it John Gray? I think he was really slow to play. Bud looked at me. We kind of have a little eye contact thing, and I kind of gave him the go ahead. And he told Kirkey and the rest is history. The ovation from the fans was epic. You know, he just gets this big two, two run knock, and then he steals second. The fans went crazy. And then Vladdy giving him the bag after the game, like icing on the cake. So it was. He finally got one, but he doesn't have the green light going forward.

[Jason Stark]

But you gave him the green light. How much courage does that take to give Alejandro Kirk the green light?

[John Schneider]

You know, trust is a big thing. Trust is a big thing. And we've. We've talked about it, you know, I mean, we've joked about him trying to get one, and it kind of just worked out to where he was like, okay, you know, aware of the situation. They're probably not going to throw. They weren't really in position where Simeon and Segur were to throw. So let's try to, you know, a little action on action here. And it. It worked, thankfully.

[Jason Stark]

So where's that base now? I have this vision of him sleeping with it, eating with it, driving around town with it. You think?

[John Schneider]

I know it got authenticated, and I think it's in his locker back at home. But he was. I mean, he didn't let go of that thing for like an hour and a half.

[Doug Glanville]

Did the Rangers say anything? Like, it's like, did you get any feedback from the opposing.

[John Schneider]

No, I didn't talk to Boach about it or anything. I didn't catch up with Marcus either. It was one of those things. They probably thought he wasn't gonna go. You know what I mean? First and third situations, you know, there's a lot of scenarios where you just don't throw. We kind of laugh whenever it's like second and third and Kirky's at second and catcher comes out and gives the sign where he's throwing. Like, wonder where you throw it. You probably throwing it. But no, we didn't, we didn't hear anything from them, I think. I mean, hopefully they, you know, he didn't score, so hopefully they enjoyed it as much as we.

[Doug Glanville]

You didn't worry about them putting up, flashing on the score, like the defensive indifference or something. Right. I was wondering.

[John Schneider]

I was glad it got recorded. Great.

[Jason Stark]

Doug's favorite thing in baseball, indifference.

[John Schneider]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

So, you know, I was in Philadelphia the night that the Phillies, I guess, inducted Jimmy Rollins into the Wall of Fame. He was talking about something that I found interesting, and that was that before his group won the World Series in 2008, they had to spend their whole careers hearing all about the 1980 Phillies of Schmidt and Carlton and Rose and all those guys. And now it's almost the same number of years for your Blue Jays group since the Blue Jays last won the World Series. And it made me think, how much do you hear about Joe Carter still?

[John Schneider]

It's a real thing. You know, I think when you, when you think of baseball in Toronto, I think that the average fan or person that follows the game, they go back to 2015 and 2016 and the teams that were there. And then obviously Joe Carter, you know, the walk off homer against the Phil's, you know, 92, 93, back to back, it's a big part of the organization's history and kind of aura, if you will, you know, so we hear about it. It's, you know, you run into Joe every now and then and, you know, it just kind of makes you think, you know, okay, this is, this is what you're shooting for. This is what this city and this country is, is yearning for, you know, So I think, yeah, we, we do probably more so than the players, you know what I mean? I think players get so focused on what they're doing day to day and the here and now. But yeah, man, it's. I think it goes through my mind quite a bit. We get. We have the World Series trophies sitting in the middle of our hallway, walking out to the field, you know, so you look at them every day and you immediately think about Joe hitting the walk off.

[Jason Stark]

You know, there's one way to make Joe Carter's homer stop flying, and that's to win one of those yourself.

[John Schneider]

There you go. Exactly. Get some new. Get some new, new footage to be played up around the Jumbo John instead of that one off Mitch.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. What would happen in Canada if this team were to win at all? Would you have a parade that went from Toronto to like Winnipeg? Might take a while.

[John Schneider]

All the way to Vancouver.

[Pat Murphy]

Yeah.

[John Schneider]

This city gets so electric when we're winning. They are behind you like no other fan base really. It's fun to be around the city right now. It's fun to be at the ballpark and know that 40 plus are going to be there every single night and they're going to be into every pitch. So, you know, not getting ahead of anything. I think the city of Toronto will really have a good day if that were to happen. It's really cool to feel the support from a country. You know, people don't talk about that very much. You know what I mean? Like when we're in Seattle, you know, west coast, we're getting fans, you know, it's. You forget that you're being watched by an entire nation, you know, not just the people of Toronto. It's a pretty cool feeling.

[Jason Stark]

Nothing better than to spend some quality time with John Schneider. Doug's in charge of getting the statues manufactured for our favorite guests. How's the John Schneider's statue? Come in there, Doug?

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. Outside of the supply chain issues we have, I'm predicting 2037, but we will have that statue.

[John Schneider]

Okay, that works for me. Perfect.

[Jason Stark]

We'll see at your statue unveiling in 2037. Hey, thanks for joining us, man. Look forward to seeing you in October.

[John Schneider]

Thanks Jason. Thanks Doug. Appreciate it man.

[Jason Stark]

Thanks for listening to the best of Starkville. You know, 2026 is right around the corner. So we'll be back soon talking about the greatest sport on earth, baseball.

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