Starkville | Best Of Edition-CC Sabathia & Billy Wagner talk about their path to Cooperstown

Summary

The Windup: Starkville | Best Of Edition — CC Sabathia & Billy Wagner Talk About Their Path to Cooperstown

Podcast: The Windup: A Show About Baseball
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Jayson Stark & Doug Glanville (The Athletic)
Guests: CC Sabathia, Billy Wagner

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Episode Overview

In this special "Best Of Starkville" edition, Jayson Stark and Doug Glanville revisit two of the podcast’s most emotional and insightful interviews from the year—conversations with newly elected Hall of Famers, CC Sabathia and Billy Wagner. Both legendary pitchers discuss their winding paths to Cooperstown, reflect on what reaching baseball’s most exclusive club means to them, and share stories about legacy, humility, mentorship, and the changing nature of baseball.

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CC Sabathia: Reflections on the Hall of Fame and Legacy

Segment Start: [03:15]

On The Emotions of Entering the Hall ([04:01])

• CC Sabathia: Describes the drive to Cooperstown as overwhelming and reflective.
  • “I got a chance to just make the three hour drive from New York and to just sit back and reflect and, you know, talk to my wife. And it really made me just sit back and think about my dad…” ([04:13])
• He emphasizes the role his late father played in his journey, particularly in dreaming of Sabathia pitching for the Yankees.

Understanding "Forever" and Legacy ([05:55])

• Jason Stark: “Your plaque is going to hang in that gallery forever. Man, people walking through there in 50 years or 100 years… How are you doing with wrapping your head around that?” ([05:11])
• CC Sabathia: Shares awe at the concept, expressing his hope to inspire youth:
  • “If I can make it where I came from, my circumstances, coming out of Vallejo, California, anybody can make it.” ([06:29])

The Importance of Being a Good Teammate ([07:08])

• Attributes this to his Cleveland years and the organization’s focus:
  • “That was just something they drilled into me, just understanding what it meant to be a good teammate on and off the field.” ([07:13])
• Shares anecdotes about helping teammates, especially catchers, fostering bonds on and off the field.

Fitting In with the Yankees & Building Chemistry ([09:22])

• On integrating with the Yankees:
  • “The core four…were with Cash and want me and AJ and Swish and Tex to kind of come in and bring in some new, fresh blood…those are just things that I always naturally love to do.” ([09:22])
• Emphasizes that being a unifier and spending time with teammates was always effortless for him.

The Mystique of the Yankees ([11:03])

• Pinstripes uniquely elevate expectations and provide a big stage, but present challenges:
  • “When you come to New York and you do something cool in the Bronx, it’s gonna leave SportsCenter…”
  • “If you can find your groove in this place, it turns out to be an awesome place to play.” ([11:03])

From Raw Athlete to Elite Pitcher ([13:14])

• CC admits he was "the furthest thing from polished" coming into pro baseball, and details his unexpected path, learning quickly on the job.
  • Shares a humorous story of his first bullpen session where he didn’t know the difference between a four-seamer and two-seamer. ([13:45])

Baseball’s Changing Player Development ([16:01])

• Wonders how analytics and modern pitching labs might have altered his development, but doubts he would have gravitated to them as a teen.

Evolving as a Pitcher ([17:42])

• Credits durability, adaptability, and learning to pitch (not just throw hard) for his late-career success:
  • “I really turned myself into my version of Jamie Moyer…” ([18:13])

The Modern "Ace" & Workhorse Era ([19:00])

• Laments fewer innings pitched by today’s top pitchers; believes an ace should reach 200 innings.
  • “For me, an ace is 200 innings. That’ll always be…the low standard.” ([20:13])

Baseball Fandom—CC as a Fan ([21:30])

• Since retirement, he’s become an avid spectator, enjoying watching both hitters and pitchers in the evolution of the game.

Reflections on Aaron Judge ([22:37])

• On Judge’s growth: “The way he can command the strike zone at this point, I don’t think anybody could predict.” ([23:13])
• Applauds Judge’s humility and credits Brett Gardner as a clubhouse influence.

Hitting CC’s Dodger Stadium Home Run — A Hallmark ([24:23])

• CC shares a detailed, funny memory about his 440ft home run at Dodger Stadium—his stuff was hidden by a prankster teammate, forcing him to rush to the plate. ([25:12])

On Shohei Ohtani’s Uniqueness ([27:01])

• CC is blown away by Ohtani’s historic two-way skill and work ethic:
  • “He’s in the big leagues, like, it’s incredible to watch...that’s the best baseball player I’ve ever seen.” ([27:01])

Friendship with Ichiro ([31:36])

• Shares that Ichiro’s dedication was singular, including offseason trips to Cooperstown for inspiration:
  • "The coolest thing about Ichi to me was just how focused he was on getting to Cooperstown, you know, and being the best baseball player that he could be." ([31:36])

Moment of Realization — Hall of Fame Dream ([33:17])

• CC didn’t consider himself a Hall of Famer until a friend’s offhand comment.
  • “That was the first time. I didn’t ever think of myself that way…” ([33:17])

Preparing for Induction Weekend ([34:29])

• Discusses the excitement and logistics for July’s ceremony, emphasizing the importance of mentors and influential people from his journey.

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Billy Wagner: The Emotional Road to Cooperstown

Segment Start: [37:01]

The Agony and Relief of Election Night ([38:08])

• Billy Wagner: Describes the anxiety of election night, recalling being only five votes short the year before.
  • “So everybody’s going, ‘Well, you’re only five votes short.' … You might be close, but all of a sudden, 20 voters that voted for you leave…” ([38:08])

Tears, Family, and the Weight of the Call ([40:08])

• Describes the moment of the Hall call as overwhelming—the culmination of a lifetime, and shares the joy of experiencing it with his wife of 30+ years.

Perceptions of the Hall, Before and After ([43:29])

• As a fan and young player, saw the Hall as something for legends only.
• Being contacted by icons post-election hammered home the magnitude:
  • “You find your name, you know, Honus Wagner, Billy Wagner…” ([46:44])

Grappling with Immortality ([46:44])

• Like Sabathia, Wagner is in awe of the "forever" nature of Hall induction:
  • “It’s the epitome of everything you…could have ever wanted in your life to be as an athlete, this is it.” ([46:44])

Writing His Legacy and Giving Back Through Coaching ([49:47])

• Wagner sees his future in mentoring and coaching, especially communicating the perseverance required in baseball.
  • “You can do this. Hey, don’t fall into the trap of somebody going, ‘You’re not good enough…’ You go create your story.” ([50:35])

Anticipation for Induction Weekend ([52:17])

• Looks forward to meeting his new Hall "teammates" and soaking up their stories, likening himself to a rookie again:
  • “You come in here, you sit down, you keep your mouth shut. If I ask for a beer, you go get a beer…That’s what it feels like.” ([52:17])

The Speech and Message to the Next Generation ([56:44])

• Wagner aims to convey humility and perseverance:
  • “I just want to…show humility…But I also want to pass a message on to the new guys coming in, that … to have this moment is a really unique moment.” ([56:44])

The Mentors Who Shaped Him ([57:53])

• Tells stories about his first teammate Jeff Bagwell and lessons from bullpen coaches and Hall of Famers.
• Emphasizes that everyone’s Hall journey is a collective effort, shaped by teammates and wise voices.

On Humility and Being a Good Teammate ([67:53])

• Describes trying to be “that guy” who keeps it real and helps others, both as a player and coach.
  • “It is so hard to be the perfect teammate, because to be the good teammate, sometimes you’ve got to say the things that aren’t flattering…” ([67:53])
• Shares a funny and legendary story about changing Doug Glanville’s flat tire in a suit, exemplifying his commitment to teammates.

Hall Lessons & Emotional Connections ([72:13])

• Reflects on the bonds formed in the Hall process, friendships with CC, Ichiro, and learning about legends like Dave Parker and Dick Allen.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• CC Sabathia:

  • “All I ever wanted my legacy to be was that he competed hard and he was a good teammate.” ([05:55])
  • “If I can make it where I came from, my circumstances, coming out of Vallejo, California, anybody can make it.” ([06:29])
  • On Ohtani: “He’s literally the best player. He does everything the best. He’s in the big leagues, like, it’s incredible to watch.” ([27:01])
  • “I really turned myself into my version of Jamie Moyer…” ([18:13])
  • “You gotta–if you can find your groove in this place, it turns out to be awesome place to play.” ([11:03])

• Billy Wagner:

  • “I think the weight of the world fell off of my shoulders that night because there was so much more than just me involved in this hall of Fame run.” ([41:35])
  • “I think it’s hard to grasp…but it’s the most humbling and rewarding part of my career.” ([46:44])
  • “I think, you know, being a coach is like that being called coach is almost as humbling as being called dad.” ([49:47])
  • “It’s not a one man deal…I never walked out there and was like, hey, well, I’m going to strike out every single guy. You know, the, the great plays…there are so many people in that journey.” ([58:47])
  • “Because now I can finally not have to debate that. Well, you know, this happened and all this. I can go, well, who cares? I’m a Hall of Famer.” ([46:44])

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Episode Highlights & Timestamps

• [04:01] — CC Sabathia on the emotions of entering the Hall and his dad’s influence
• [05:55] — CC on understanding the meaning of being "forever" in the Hall
• [07:13] — CC tells stories of being a good teammate
• [09:22] — CC integrating with the Yankees & the unique culture
• [13:14] — CC’s unorthodox, raw beginnings as a baseball player
• [17:42] — CC on evolving his pitching as his career progressed
• [20:13] — CC on what being an ace means in modern baseball
• [22:37] — CC on Aaron Judge’s development
• [24:23] — CC’s infamous Dodger Stadium home run story
• [27:01] — CC on Shohei Ohtani’s singular place in baseball history
• [31:36] — CC on Ichiro’s Cooperstown focus and influence
• [38:08] — Billy Wagner on the stress of Hall of Fame election night
• [40:38] — Wagner recalls the overwhelming emotions and sharing the moment with family
• [43:29] — Wagner reflects on his sense of what the Hall meant as a youth versus now
• [49:47] — Wagner discusses building legacy through coaching younger players
• [52:17] — Wagner on the nerves and awe of induction weekend
• [56:44] — Wagner’s thoughts about his speech and sense of humility
• [58:47] — Wagner recounts stories about mentors, teammates, and supporters on his journey
• [67:53] — Wagner shares his philosophy on being a good teammate, humility, and the stories he now tells as coach
• [72:13] — Wagner reflects on the special camaraderie among inductees and the significance of Hall friendships

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Tone and Style

The episode is warm, rich in nostalgic and candid reminiscence, peppered with humor, humility, gratitude, and awe from both Hall of Famers. CC Sabathia’s storytelling is heartfelt and approachable; Billy Wagner’s anecdotes are self-deprecating, deeply emotional, and loaded with wisdom for the next generation.

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Closing Thoughts

This “Best Of” edition not only celebrates the achievements of two great pitchers but beautifully illustrates the profound impact of baseball’s tradition, mentorship, and brotherhood. Sabathia and Wagner offer wisdom for young players, insight into the mysteries of greatness, and a love for the game that will resonate long after their plaques hang in Cooperstown.

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All timestamps are in MM:SS format. Content summary skips advertisements and sponsor content.

Transcript

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[Jason Stark]

Greetings and welcome to Starkville Baseball hall of Famer Jason Stark. And then the robot said strike.

[CC Sabathia]

That's why you're going the hall of Fame. It's an inside the park over on Doug Gl.

[Doug Glanville]

Mike trot his coffee at Starbucks with a double latte.

[Jason Stark]

Skinny Doug, are you ready to make some podcast magic?

[CC Sabathia]

I am ready.

[Doug Glanville]

Bring on the magic wand. Let's do it.

[Jason Stark]

You are listening to the best of Starkville. We had so many interviews this year that we Loved. We picked out a few that you might have missed so you could get a second chance to listen to them during the holiday season. So we hope you enjoy them, and thanks for listening to Starkville.

So, Doug, what podcasts get a chance to hang out with better guests than we do. Right. And this week, we get to talk to one of our favorite people in baseball. The one, the only, the hall of Famer, cece Sabathia. Cece, welcome to Starkville. So happy to have you here. How are you?

[CC Sabathia]

Thank you. What's going on, fellas?

[Doug Glanville]

Well, man, good to see you.

[Jason Stark]

We are living the dream here in Starkville. So I was up in Cooperstown in January when you got elected, and that meant I got a chance to see you roll into town with. With Ichiro and Billy Wagner to let that reality sink in. It's a very emotional time, and you're an emotional guy. How powerful was that visit to the hall of Fame?

[CC Sabathia]

Yeah, it was. It was like you said. I mean, it was a super emotional. Just really ride up, you know. Cause I got a chance to, you know, those guys had to fly in. I think ET Was coming from Seattle.

And, you know, I got a chance to just make the three hour drive from New York and to just sit back and reflect and, you know, talk to my wife. And it really made me just sit back and think about my dad and how much, you know, how proud he would be that I'm going to the hall of Fame, but how much that he really wanted me to pitch for the Yankees and how much that impacted, I feel like my career and, you know, got me to the hall of Fame. So I was just always thankful, you know, that he saw the vision. Because for me, I never. I was never pitching to get to the hall of Fame. I was just pitching, you know, to win ball games, to be the best teammate I can be. And it was really just one day at a time. Like when you're in the big leagues, especially, you know, when I got there as young as I did, I was, like, always worried about getting sent down. So I never kind of lost that. You know what I mean? I never lost that sense of urgency, of knowing what I'm actually doing. So to be able to, you know, have my career end up the way it did and being Cooperstown is really amazing.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

You know, I love to talk to hall of Fame players about just trying to grasp the meaning of it all. I mean, I'm not a Hall of Famer the way you're a Hall of Famer. You won 251 more games than I did. But I am in the writer's wing. And, you know, I had this moment. I was staring at my face in that exhibit, and it hit me what this is. Cece, I don't know what your comprehension is of the word forever, but your plaque is going to hang in that gallery forever. Man, people walking through there in 50 years or 100 years or 200 years or however long it's there, they'll see you. They can learn all about you. How are you doing with wrapping your head around that?

[CC Sabathia]

Yeah, I mean, when you. When you say. When you put it that way, it's. Yeah, it's super surreal, but. But it's. It feels like that's all I ever wanted, right? Was like, a legacy. Like, that's all you ever. You feel like you want to leave behind is a legacy. All I ever wanted my legacy to be was that he competed hard and he was a good teammate. And to have that, you know, that be driving me in my big league career and, you know, have me end up in the plaque hall is incredible. So. And, you know, they play that video in the auditorium before that video. It's incredible. I get emotional every time I watched it, but Pedro said it best. And I really feel like this, if. If I can make it where I came from, my circumstances, coming out of Vallejo, California, anybody can make it. Like, literally anybody can make it. So it feels good to hopefully be that inspiration to young kids across the world. Hopefully, that can look at my story and be like, if he can get there, then I can.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, Cece, I mean, where does the good teammate come from? What is your experience to make that something so important to you?

[CC Sabathia]

I think it was being drafted by the Cleveland organization. It was something that they stressed. From the time that I got there, you know, I was 17 years old, and I didn't really know a lot about baseball. I was more an athlete than I was a baseball player. And that was just something that they drilled into me, just understanding what it meant to be a good teammate on and off the field. And, you know, I had those experiences, you know, throughout my minor league career. And when I got to the big leagues, I mean, I think about, you know, myself and Victor Martinez. We're, you know, like brothers. And, you know, that came along because, you know, we were on a road trip and we were leaving Burlington, North Carolina, and we stopped somewhere and everybody was ordering food. We got at a rest stop, and everybody's ordering food, and Vic was just standing there looking at the menu at McDonald's. And I'm like, you gonna order? And he's like, nah, you know, I don't. You know, I don't really know what's going on. And, you know me, I was like, I ordered for him, and we sat down and ate and just kind of, like, got to know him. And to me, that's what of being a good teammate is just knowing your guys on and off the field. All of my catchers, I feel like we were really close where I didn't take off at all. Like, you know, whoever it was, whether it was Chris Stewart, Francisco Savelli, Brian McCann, Jorge Posada, whoever it was, like, I want that relationship where they know, you know, when I'm out there, they have a feel of what I want to throw. So I was just always trying to get to know the guys, their families, and just bring them in and have them be a part of the team.

[Jason Stark]

You know, one of the things that everybody always says about you is you were the favorite teammate of pretty much everybody ever played with because you related to everyone, and you connected with everyone. And one of the most amazing parts of that saga is, hey, you came to New York in 2009. You walked into that Yankees clubhouse with some of the best, biggest names and the most famous players in the sport, and instantly, it felt like those guys were gravitating toward you, hanging around you.

In a lot of ways, it was your team. How did you become that guy on that team? And was it different than Cleveland or Milwaukee?

[CC Sabathia]

No, it really was no different. It was.

It was kind of the same thing that I felt like I always did, where it was just, you know, you go in and. But I have to give credit to the core four, obviously. I mean, those guys were already there. They had four rings and having a chance to come in the very first day of spring training and meet Andy, meet Mo, talk to Jorge, and just kind of get a feel for, you know, with the sense of, like, you know, where we wanted to go as a team. That kind of happened, like, day one, and those guys are like, they wanted. You know, they were with Cash and want me and AJ And Swish and Text to kind of come in and bring in some new, fresh blood. And, you know, you got AJ with the pies, and you had Swish with all the energy, and you had me just kind of bringing everybody together, Whether that was going to magic games, whether that was, you know, hanging out, going to dinner off the field. Those are just things that I always naturally love to do. And I didn't think it was any different. You know, you have those big names in there. Yeah, obviously. But we're all teammates. We all have to pull on the same side of the rope. So why not go to a basketball game together? Why not, you know, go hang out, go to the movies and do different things together? So it was just always something that I always, you know, had done, you know, naturally, as a teammate, just wanted to hang out with the guys. And like I said, the core four was receptive to it. And I felt like we instantly had chemistry right away. That spring training in 2009.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, Cece, you know, in the news, there's a lot of discussion with, for example, with Juan Soto choosing not to stay with the Yankees and go to the Mets. What can you tell us about what is special about Yankees above all else?

[CC Sabathia]

I mean, I think it's just the pinstripes, right? Like, when you go to New York, no disrespect to the Mets ever, right? But when you go to New York and you look on the schedule, you always looking to see where you're gonna play in Yankee Stadium. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's always, like, that's the trip to New York. I mean, when you go to Queens, you know, it's special, too. But, like, when you come to. When you come to New York and you do something cool in the Bronx, it's gonna leave Sports center if you hit three home runs. And yet it's like going to Madison Square Garden. So I feel like everybody wants to show up and perform every single night. So me being in that uniform is up to me to combat that, right? So it could be a random Tuesday night in the Bronx, but the Royals are coming in town, so I gotta be ready to combat what they're trying to do. So it's always, you know, you're always up for the game. Every single game. You know, it's 45 to 50,000 people there on a regular night. So just the energy and what's expected of you when you put on that uniform, I think elevates you. And I think, you know, it's hard for some people to comprehend that and bring that effort every single day. And I think that's why, you know, some people come here and fail. But if you can. If you can find your. Your pocket and find your niche in this place, it's the best place to play. I mean, you can be yourself. You can have fun. The first thing I figured out, Doug, right away was, like, you named. I named all those stars. Whether it was a Rod, Robbie Cano, Jeter, all these guys. Like, I'm fifth on the list of guys, that locker, you know what I'm saying? You can kind of fly under the radar too. So you just gotta. You gotta. If you can find your groove in this, in this place, it turns out to be awesome place to play.

[Jason Stark]

You know, I know a lot of people know of you as a Yankee, the Yankee legend. I don't know how well people know your story. We see all these first round draft picks now. Guys like Paul Skin, Garrett Cole, you know, little previous in a previous era. They're so polished the day they arrive in pro baseball. But that, that was not you, am I right?

[CC Sabathia]

Oh, yeah. No. I mean, I was. I was the furthest thing from what you could call polished. And that's why I said earlier I wasn't so much a baseball. I played baseball my whole life, but I wasn't so much a baseball player as I was an athlete. You know, I played football and basketball throughout my high school career, all the way through my senior year, and really thought I was going to go to high, I mean, go to college to play football. My senior year, I had a really good senior year and ended up getting drafted in the first round. And, you know, they offered me $1.3 million. And at the time, me and my mom needed the money and I had just. I was thinking, you know, I can go to. I can go play baseball for a couple years, and if it doesn't work out, I can go back to college. Chris Mookie had just did that, you know what I mean? So it was like, there's a path here where I can take this money and if it doesn't work out in a couple of years, I can go back to school. So I really just gave it a try, you know, and when I got to Burlington and, you know, I got a chance to meet Carl Willis, and we're out on the mound, my very first bullpen. He goes, hey, let me see your four seamer, your two seamer, you know, everything throwing. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like here? And I throw and I throw it as hard as I can. And I said, everybody sets up. I mean, the catcher sets up right down the middle. And when I want to throw a slider, I drop down like this. And he was like, oh, man, we got a lot of work to do. So. But I mean, when I got it drafted, I was throwing 92 to 93. Carl shows you how to throw a four seamer. I'm throwing 95 to 97 in like three weeks. So, I mean, everything was just so fresh and so new. And you know, I was, I was, you know, willing to learn and willing to be coachable. And like I said, I mean, having Carl, he taught me my delivery top to bottom. And I really got to the big leagues with a four seamer and like a loopy curveball that wasn't really good at all. We developed a change up like the second and third year and I really developed as a big leaguer. Like I was so young when I got to the big leagues, so fresh as a pitcher that, that you just see me kind of develop over my years in Cleveland. And by the time I'm 26, 27, I was able to put it all together. I really think that second half of 2006 when me and Carl were looking for a out pitch, like I would get the two strikes and I still had that big curveball and I couldn't get a strikeout. And we went down to the bullpen in Oakland and he was going to teach me how to throw a cutter. And out of that bullpen session came like this 83 mile an hour, like what they would call like a sweeper now. And I was like, oh, this thing is nasty. I took him to the game against Ichiro the next time we flew from Oakland to Seattle and he hit it off the window twice.

But I really think developing that pitch, that slider, the second half of 2006 with Carl and the bullpen, I think that kind of just set me over the edge. And the next year I went to Cy Young and then I'm in Milwaukee and then, you know, I'm in New York.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. Hey, so think about this. Suppose you'd been one of these guys today who'd been the Driveline. You had a pitching lab in your school who knew all that tunneling and pitch design from day one. How different would your journey have been?

[CC Sabathia]

I mean, I think it would have been. I think it would have been completely different.

Just because one, I don't think as a teenager I was that like, into baseball, where I would go to Driveline, you know? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if I would have went to Driveline or if I would have, you know, taking it as serious.

So, yeah, I think, I mean, I just with, you know, I have a 14 year old now and I'm watching everything he's going through. He's trying to navigate football and baseball and all these different workouts and, you know, we're not taking, like, that weighted ball program. We're not doing any of that. We're just kind of playing catch, playing long toss, and I'm kind of letting them develop, you know, kind of naturally. I don't want to chase velocity with him. I just want to be able to, like, have him be able to control the strike zone and throw strikes. And I think that was something that I was always good at. So, you know, I think. I don't know. I mean, I think my developing, obviously, I would have developed a lot faster, but I don't know. Had I been. I don't think. I don't. I don't think I would have been that interested in those things.

[Doug Glanville]

Speaking to that, like you said, you might have developed faster, but would you have lasted as long? Yeah, I think one of the questions I have is, you know, what was it like to watch your own personal evolution become, like, the power guy, the strikeout guy, and then later in your career figure out, okay, I got to pitch a little differently? I mean, how did you do that? What was that like?

[CC Sabathia]

That was. I mean, it was just, like, a natural thing, right? Like, I feel like, you know, coming up, you know, I was always a guy that could throw strikes and control the strike zone, and I kind of turned into a power pitcher because. Because, like I told you guys, I learned that velocity when I went from throwing the ball in the middle, like, gripping in the middle, to throwing a four seamer and being able to add and subtract velocity whenever I wanted to. When I was younger, I would watch Jamie Moyer, and I'd be like, how.

[Jason Stark]

Is he doing this?

[CC Sabathia]

How is he doing this? Like, he would break bats all day long. When we had that lineup in Cleveland, 2001, and we could not get the ball out of the infield. As I got older, I realized it was pitching in and controlling and controlling the inside part of the plate and really just, you know, being able to mix your pitches up. But. And as I got older and I developed the cutter, I really turned myself into my version of Jamie Moyer, where it would be cutters in, two seamers away, change ups, you know, down and away, and I'm throwing a backdoor slider. So the version that you saw me from 2016-19, that's my version of me turning into Jamie Floyd.

[Jason Stark]

You know, I'm so fascinated by, like, the contrast between your career arc versus how pitchers are today. When you pitched aces, were pitching 240, 250 innings, and your teams couldn't stop you from Doing that. That's what you did. So, like, what is an ace today in your mind? How many innings should an ace have to throw? How many years do you have to do it to be an ace? Do we even care about any of that anymore?

[CC Sabathia]

No, I do. I do. And I think that's, you know, hopefully we can get back to these, you know, pitching matchups where, you know, you know, when I was a kid watching the game, you know, I wanted to watch Dave Stewart start the game. You know, I wanted to watch, you know, all these different guys, you know, be starters. I wanted to watch Roger Clemens. I wanted to watch Doc Gooden. So I, I think. I think people tune in to watch the big pitching matchups, like if Paul Skins is pitching against Garrett Cole or Max Freed or whoever else, you want to watch that game. I mean, it was Nick Abel the other day. You want to watch that game. You know what I mean? So, I mean, hopefully we can get back to, you know, guys pitching deeper into the game. We get these ace matchups again. And, and, you know, for me, an ace is 200 innings. That'll always be, you know, the low standard. For me to see a guy at the top of the league, you know, I want to see them, you know, throwing 200 innings. That was always a goal for us. And, you know, now it seems like to be 160 to 180. But you always see the guys that have the great years, they're throwing 200 innings.

[Jason Stark]

Not many. You know, I'm sure you hear people say you and Justin Verlander are going to be the last of the 250 game winners. And so I wonder if you agree with that, but also.

Does baseball need to get back to that? And if so, how. Is there some way to incentivize getting back to that?

[CC Sabathia]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, hopefully we can. I don't want to change many rules to, you know, to, to have pitchers go deeper into. Deeper into the games. But, yeah, I think it's important to, for starters, to, you know, have a record for, you know, pitchers to, to get the win or loss. But I do think the way we're going to, there will be more guys with 150 wins and 3,000 strikeouts. Then there will be guys with 200 wins or 250 wins at the rate we're going now.

[Doug Glanville]

Cece, when you watch today's game, what. What makes you or reminds you of what you still love about baseball?

[CC Sabathia]

I think all of. I'm such a huge baseball Fan, you know, and you know, obviously, you know, having a chance to consume it and watch it now a bunch. I mean, like we were just talking about. I love, you know, anytime, anytime I get a chance to watch Paul Scheme's pitch, I'm sitting down to watch him pitch. If I get a chance to watch.

You know, Max Freed, then I'm sit down and watch Max Freed. You know, I love watching good hitters. You know, I love watching, you know, Mike Trout when he's healthy. I love watching what Aaron Judge does. I love watching Francisco Lindor. So, you know, and now with the pitch clock, you can consume the games. Like I can watch a couple of games a night, you know, now with the games being 2:32. So I really enjoy just watching baseball. I mean I'm a huge, huge baseball fan and I didn't know how big of a fan I was until I retired. And you know, I sit on the couch and that's all I do. I consume it on the radio, I watch it on tv. You know, my kids are in it, my wife's an agent. So it's literally our life.

[Jason Stark]

You dropped an Aaron Judge and you were a teammate of the young Aaron Judge. So obviously you knew this dude was super talented even as a really young player. But I mean, I just wrote that he's the greatest right handed hitter now of the last hundred years. So when you were looking at him when he first came into the game.

[CC Sabathia]

Could you have expected this when he first came up? No. When he first came up in 2016? Absolutely not. Especially that second half. I mean he had a home run his very first at bat. I think the first pitch him and Tyler also went back to back.

[Jason Stark]

That's right.

[CC Sabathia]

And then I don't think he, you know, hit another ball hard the rest of that year. And he came back in 2017 and he had 52 homers. And yeah, I mean obviously we thought, you know, we knew he had the power and you know he can hit the ball to off fields but the way he can command the strike zone at this point, I don't think anybody could predict. I mean, you know, the way he, I mean anything that he can put his bat on, you know, he can smash and everything else, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't swing at. So it makes it incredibly hard for you to face him. I got a chance to face him a couple of times in and like lives when he was younger and you can see that there was a spot and I see him now and there's no Spot that you can where he's not going to put the barrel on it. So I'm just excited for what he's doing. And, you know, he was always a super talent, but just a super, super great human, a good teammate. And, you know, I give Guardy a lot of the credit for how the way Judge turned out, I feel like in the clubhouse.

[Jason Stark]

Right. All right. I have another Aaron Judge related question, but before I ask it, I want to play a clip of one of your greatest career highlights.

[CC Sabathia]

All right.

[Jason Stark]

This was 2008 in a place they call Dodger Stadium. Bet you know what's coming.

[Billy Wagner]

You might be that rare American league pitcher that wished there was no dh. Just saw his big numbers. That one's hit a bunch into right field. And Carnac. Chris Rose has called it his second career home run. I think that went out of the bullpen. Oh, my.

[Jason Stark]

I think that one did go out of the bullpen. That was 440ft. It was the longest home run hit at Dodgers stadium that whole season. And one thing I noticed, if you watch the video, you definitely enjoyed it.

Your trot was about 45 seconds.

[CC Sabathia]

It was.

[Jason Stark]

Tell us about that moment and where it ranks on your list of career highlights.

[CC Sabathia]

Oh, super. I mean, it's way up there. And what's crazy is I used to talk so much crap about hitting. Like, oh, my God, I'm a kill the guys. Like, like, if we weren't hitting, I would be in the dugout screaming, give me a bat.

[Doug Glanville]

Let me be.

[CC Sabathia]

The times when I was younger and I. And I would get on guys. But what's funny about that is I had, like, I was leading off the inning, so I just came in and I was super excited. That's all I had talked about. And why Matt said Carnet Chris Rose called it is because before the game, we're in. We're in the clubhouse, and I was playing the video game, and I told Chris Wells, I'm like, I'm going deep today. Mark it down. So I came in and came in after the inning, and I'm looking for my bat and, like, my batting gloves and my helmet. Casey Blake had hit him. He put him up in the. So I was so mad. I was so pissed off that I couldn't find my gloves, my helmet, like, my back. He had hit all my stuff, so I didn't get no swings on the. On the. On deck circle. So I'm like. I'm like MF ing him while I'm walking up to the plate. And then Chad Ho just Happens to throw me two balls. So I got to see, you know, kind of the ball come out of his hand. And I was like, I'm swinging at the next pitch, no matter where it is. And he happened to throw up right down the middle. So the funny part about that is Casey hiding my. My stuff before I can get the hit.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

All right. But here's the big question. Who has more power? Aaron Judge or prime time?

[CC Sabathia]

CC Aaron says by far, no, it's.

[Jason Stark]

Got to be dead heat.

[CC Sabathia]

You tell me one spot I can get you.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, you got to hit the Hall. The hall of Fame game we did last summer.

[CC Sabathia]

Absolutely.

[Doug Glanville]

So I remember that well. Speaking of hitters and pitchers, what do you think of when you see Shohei Ohtani? Like, what are we missing about how hard it is when he was certainly doing both and planning to do both again later this season?

[CC Sabathia]

I think we're missing, like, the time that he puts in, right? Like, everything that he has to do to get ready to hit in a big league game and then, like, stay healthy enough to pitch. When he was, you know, starting, like, I mean, it's one thing to, you know, you know, come out of the bullpen, I mean, I mean, you know, start, be a starter and, you know, get a couple of pinches here and there, but to be the best hitter in the lineup and the best starter on the team, like, he's doing what, you know, we all seen that 12 year old Doug, like when we were kids and that you still know that guy's name. At his little league, like, overs, he threw the hardest, he ran the fastest. He was the biggest kid. That's Shohei in the big leagues. He's literally the best player. He does the everything, the best. He's in the big leagues, like, it's incredible to watch. So I got a chance to play against him. I didn't pitch against him, but I was sitting in the dugout, seen him hit a ground ball to dd. We were playing him in Anaheim and he, he beat that ball out. And I looked at Severino, Luis Severino, at the time he was sitting next to me, I was like, that's the best baseball player ever seen. Like, 66260 is the fastest player on the. It's incredible.

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[Jason Stark]

Eddie Murray once told me in Cooperstown that every player in the hall of Fame could do what Ohtani does, just nobody would ever let him.

I'm not sure that's a true statement, but I bet you always wondered, suppose they had let you do both you to put up some, some damage right with the bat.

[CC Sabathia]

You know, what, you know what Eddie's saying is there are guys there. You know, Dave Winfield, you know, he pitched and hit. You know, Eddie was a pitcher and a hitter in high school. I mean, I understand what he's saying, but I don't know if there's a, there's. I don't know if we could have did it at the level that this guy's doing. This is the best the game's ever been. These athletes are the best that they've ever been in the game. And I mean he's, he sits above, I mean all of it. So I wouldn't put myself in the class with, with, with him, but I definitely think we all for sure, because we were all baseball players. We all, you know, we all weren't just pitchers only or hitters only or whatever. You know, you kind of did everything if you're a good player. So I would like to say I could have, could have got some hits. Not what this guy's doing, but.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, right. Well, speaking of Japanese superheroes, you're going into the hall of Fame with Ichiro. You were Ichiro's teammate. You pitched against Ichiro. You, you mentioned you had that. He had that two homer game against you. There's something about that guy. I'm just mesmerized by him. What's the coolest thing to you about Ichiro and about going into the hall with him?

[CC Sabathia]

Well, the coolest thing is that we were rookies together too, so we were rookies to go one. So getting a chance to go into the Hall, I mean, it just kind of completes the circle, which is really cool. The coolest thing about Ichi to me was just how focused he was on getting to Cooperstown, you know, and being the best baseball player that he could be. He never took days off. If we were flying into somewhere and we had a day off, he would make them open it up so he can go hit. He had his own machines down in the cage that he worked out with. And he would take trips to Cooperstown in the off season. And I would always sit, I'd be like, ET, why are you going to Cooperstown? Like, what's up there? And when I got a chance to go up there, I'm like, oh, I should have been doing this. I wish if players are listening to this podcast, if current players take a trip to Cooperstown, it's so inspiring. Like, it will change your perspective on everything, change the way you work. And now I understand why he would do it in the off season. So if there's any current players listening to this, man, take a trip up there and just check it out and see how special it is. And every player that comes out of there and they come out of that auditorium after they play that movie, they're all crying. So it's like, I mean, I just think it's so inspirational. And it was something that he was so focused on from, I think from day one. And the only two people that, that, that I've, that I've known and came across that were playing to get into Cooperstown was him and Justin Verlander. And it seems like both of them are accomplished it.

[Billy Wagner]

Yeah.

[Doug Glanville]

Cece, was there a particular moment in your career that you Were like, I might be a Hall of Famer. Like, did you. Was there a moment you said, this is possible?

[CC Sabathia]

No, there was. No, there wasn't. I never really thought about that. But we were riding in the car one time, Ben Francisco, I'm really close with it. And we were riding in the car and we were talking about the game. I had just pitching the game. I can't remember what year this was. And I had never thought of myself as a Hall of Famer or anything. Like, I never, like, never really crossed my mind. We riding in the car and I'm talking about the umpire, obviously, because I was always mad about calls. He goes, yeah, like, borderline hall of Famer. You're not gonna get that call. And that was the first time. It, like, I didn't ever think of myself that way, you know, like, it was. So he was the one that kind of put it out there for me. And I was like, oh, like, maybe that's a thing, you know, and then having a chance to talk to Harold my last year and Jeffrey Hammond Suit, I were like, you need to get these numbers. You need to play as long as you can to get into the hall of Fame, because it's something that. That is special. And you're right there.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, it's. You have no idea what's coming. I don't know if you have grasped the magnitude of July in Cooperstown, induction weekend in Cooperstown, yet. How many people are coming from your friends and family?

[CC Sabathia]

Oh, man, this is. It's been crazy. So my hometown, they're. They're. They're all flying in New York and I think they're renting like four or five buses and they're driving up.

[Jason Stark]

How many people is that?

[CC Sabathia]

I think that's like 300 people from my hometown. And I think just in my party, I think there's like 60 people. So it should be. It should be a lot of fun.

You know, I wanted to make sure all my catchers were there. Obviously, like I said earlier, you know, Carl. Carl Willis has got to be there. Mike Harkey, you know, people that. That meant so much to me in my career. I'm just excited to see. And no, I, I can't. I haven't grasped, you know, what it's going to be like in July up there. I got a chance to take my 12 year old to that, that. That tournament that they play up there, but it was like a week before induction, and then they were getting everything set up and, you know, the Otis saga was getting, you know, all Set up. So I was. I was there for a week before, but I'm looking forward to not only getting my. My year done, but I hear after I get done, the next year is even better.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. Is there any particular mentor coach that you like? You know, I hope they're there or I'd like them to be there.

[CC Sabathia]

Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously Carl Mike Harkey, but my high school coach, Abe Hobbs, really, you know, made a huge difference in my life when I was 14, getting a chance to, you know, I got a chance to meet him in the eighth grade, and it literally just set me on a path that really changed my life, you know, between him and, you know, pedaling the Stewart at the Boys and Girls Club where I grew up. You know, people that kind of really invested in me as a young person because I could have went, you know, left a long time ago. And these people were the people that kept me on a straight path, so. So I'm excited to celebrate and have them have a chance to be a part of the celebration.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

It's so special. Cece, you're amazing, man. We can't tell you how much it means to us that you carved out time to visit us. And we can't begin to describe how much we enjoyed it. So thank you.

See you in Cooperstown.

[CC Sabathia]

I appreciate you guys, and I love the pod, and thanks for having me on. Anytime you guys call me up. I'm just hanging out now.

[Jason Stark]

Careful what you wish for, buddy.

[Doug Glanville]

Thanks to Steve.

[Jason Stark]

Hope you enjoyed that conversation. Here's another one of our favorites.

Doug. Let's welcome this week's special guest visitor to Starkville. He's a man who's about to experience one of the greatest weekends of his baseball life. He's going to get inducted into the Baseball hall of Fame in three weeks. It's one of the most unhittable relief pitchers who ever lived. Billy Wagner. Billy, welcome back to Starkville.

[Billy Wagner]

Hey, it's good to be back. Always good to talk baseball to my favorite people.

[Jason Stark]

The pleasure is ours, my friend. Last time you were here was January of 2024. And you know what happened that week? It was the week you missed getting elected by five votes.

[Billy Wagner]

So it's your fault. So it's all y' all fault.

[Jason Stark]

No, I'll think how your elections have gone since.

[Billy Wagner]

Oh, yeah. I mean, whirlwind, whirlwind from that moment to now.

[Jason Stark]

We'll go through all this, but I just want to take you back to that night. After all the frustration that you experienced in the first Nine elections. What was election night last January like?

[Billy Wagner]

Very emotional because I was so close. I'm so close to getting in the expectations, you know, and plus, you know, I'm the, I guess the glass half full type of guy. And so everybody's going, well, you're only five votes short. And then, you know, as the whole process goes, you know, you don't. What people don't realize is that writers come and writers go. So you might be close, but all of a sudden, 20 voters that voted for you leave, and then you get a new group then, and you just never know. So I'm getting introduced to all this the whole time and, you know, and I'm. I'm having those nightmares of. Because they're saying, nobody's ever gotten this close and not gotten. Then that whole moment was. I think I was on edge that whole day. I had some friends over and I. And I decided I wasn't going to do what I did in 24 and have practice and be around the kids. The emotions were going to be too heavy for. For me to have to deal with in front of the guys. And so I had some friends and family over and. And we, we just sit around and my kids were here. And, you know, when that phone call came, I. I couldn't even speak. I could. I could barely even like, say hello to. To answer the phone.

[CC Sabathia]

It was.

[Billy Wagner]

And they were like, are you there? Are you there? And I'm like, you know, yeah, yeah. And so every kid wants to get in the hall of Fame. Every player wants to get in the hall of Fame. But. And you. You have those doubts and when you go through it, like, you know, shoot like a Dave Parker or, you know, you get to the very end and sometimes you don't even get in. Then you have to go to the veterans. Those are long days that you have to really sit there and question this whole process. But, you know, that moment, you know, is just having my family, having friends and finally getting that call was just. That's one of those moments, you know, where you vote, where you're. Where you were, what was going on, who was there. Those. Just one of those wow moments for me.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. And. And even afterwards, those emotions came spilling out on MLB Network, you weren't afraid to show some tears, to swallow hard, just trying to gather yourself so you could get the words out. And like, when you're trying to answer questions about this momentous thing that has just happened to you, could you even describe those emotions that are flowing out of you in that moment in Time?

[Billy Wagner]

No, because, you know, you've practiced that. I know I've practiced it. What it would feel like, the speech, all these things, you know, the excitement. But there's that worry for so long if it doesn't happen. And, you know, they say, we'll call you at 6:05. And so you're sitting there at 6:03 and nothing's happened and minutes turn into hours. And so when that happens, you know, just to see, it's like your, your career goes, you know, right in front of you. Flat flash it right in front of you, where you're, you're so overwhelmed with where you came from, what you've accomplished, the people who've been there, the people that saw the good and bad moments to get to that point, you know, there's not enough thank yous in the world for those moments and, and it's all flooding in on you. And.

I think the weight of the world fell off of my shoulders that night because there was so much more than just me involved in, in this hall of Fame run. And so getting into it, you know, there's a representation from, from Division 3, late bloomer, the, the. You know, there's only been one other guy that's been put into the hall of Fame from State of Virginia. It's EPI Rickson.

[Jason Stark]

Epilepsy.

[Billy Wagner]

Right? Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. That wasn't last week.

[Billy Wagner]

Exactly. And so, you know, all of a sudden I start getting flooded with a lot of history and what this means and what it means to a lot of people to see somebody that's not the normal guy who's going to get in. And you know, all of a sudden you're, hey, this is possible. Until all of a sudden I get flooded with a lot more. Now you are a different type of role model. There is people that can really can see the, the. What could be possible. So I've taken that whole thing and so that whole thing was going along and you know, but still, you know, you affect so many. I mean, me and my wife been married 30, going on 31 years, and she's thrown every pitch in the minor league. She said she seen me when I was a starter, when I was terrible. She seen me when I've had bad moments.

[Doug Glanville]

She.

[Billy Wagner]

She's been through it all. So getting to enjoy that with her has been really good because you could see it just kind of wash off of her a little bit.

[Doug Glanville]

I think the first time I went to the hall of Fame was in the early 80s. I was a big Phillies fan. I remember buying a Mike Schmidt photo. You know, way before his career was over. And I certainly had a certain idea of what I thought the hall was about just from that first trip. Can you give us a sense of what you thought it was about or perceived it to be before, as a fan, as a kid growing up, and then what, you know, it to be now?

[Billy Wagner]

I think my perception when I was a younger kid was just inconceivable. You know, Joe DiMaggio's Mickey Mantles, these types of players are the only ones that are ever going to get in because they're the, you know, I didn't view myself as in any category of, you know, Robin Roberts, know, Goose Gossage, any of these guys. The, these guys were the, the best of the best. And, you know, the hall of Fame name gets thrown out there quite often. Oh, you're going to be a Hall of Famer. You're going to get this. I, I don't think people realize how hard once that stigma gets thrown on, oh, you should be a Hall of Famer. You're going to be a Shore no doubter. I mean, so many people throw that on you. And so you, you think, oh, yeah, but then it becomes a reality. And, you know, you get the phone call and a text from, you know, guys like Johnny Bench, and you get phone call, all of a sudden it really gets real, and you're like. Because that's that 1% that you never had really contact with. Then you're getting a phone call from, from your, from your real hero, like Nolan Ryan and then Goose and then guys that, you know, you haven't spoken to before, you know, George Brett, these guys. I mean, there are so many people that I'd never spoken to that all of a sudden you get phone calls, text messages, and so, you know, that's overwhelming. But when you walk in to the hall that first moment and you see the names on those plaques and you see their stats, you go through their stat line and then you go through the museum and you, you see what it really. The history of the game, the tradition and where it's come from and, you know, from the good, the bad. I mean, to sit there and go, hey, I'm in the same hall as a Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth or guys like that, that is something I still can't put together because I don't think it's, you know, it's hard to validate that and go, yeah, I'm. I'm in that. I'm in that group, you know, because that's not Something I grew up thinking, oh, yeah, I'm in that group. I mean, it is so humbling to really, you know, embrace that, see the tradition of it, that, you know, I've never been there. So going through that museum, that was so humbling. And, I mean, it was just a must see.

[Jason Stark]

All right, let me hit you with. With something that hit me. As you know, I'm in the writer's wing of the hall, and I go look at my face on the wall every year, you know, just to. Just to make sure that happened.

[CC Sabathia]

Okay.

[Jason Stark]

You know, and here's what I. Let me tell you what I try to comprehend. It just hit me the first time I looked at it. It's going to be up there forever, right? Forever. When people walk through that place in 50 years or 100 years or however long the hall of Fame is standing, they're going to see my face and read about me. And now they're going to see your face, your. Your plaque, and read about you. And I don't have a really good grasp of that. How is your grasp of that word forever?

[Billy Wagner]

It's not good because it's not good. But I'm like you. I. You know. You know, when you're a real fan, I mean, and you're able to sit there and go in and see the names on that list, and you're going through there and you find your name, you know, Honus Wagner, Billy Wagner, you know, I mean, you know, I'm gonna be there. And. And so I just think, you know, it's. I think it's hard to grasp, but it's just, you know, it's. It. I don't know how you described. I don't know how you sit there and go, man, this is like the epitome of everything you. The icing on the cake, the, you know, everything you could have ever wanted in your life to be as an athlete, this is it. This is where, you know, immortality as an athlete goes. No matter. No matter. I think I was doing an interview with Costas, and he was asking me, you know, he said something about my playoff record, and he was talking about this, and I said, I don't care. I'm still a Hall of Famer. I mean, you can find. I can finally not have to debate that. Well, you know, this happened and all this. I can go, well, who cares? I'm a Hall of Famer. And so, you know, those are the best. Because now. Because there is no defending some of these things. And so now I can sit there and go, you know, I'm in there with the best of the best, and I'm just, you know, blessed and humbled about that. There's. I don't know how you describe those things. I don't know if there's a word to justify how awesome a feeling it is to walk into a place that has, you know, such awe and. And, you know, as Jane likes to say it, 1% of 1%. And when you think about 1% and how many 1 1/2% guys that didn't get into the hall of Fame and how many people we sit here and talk about, why is that guy not in and stuff to be in that 1%, to be in that new locker room with. With the greatest of greats. I don't know if you should have a word that sits there and goes, I'm entitled. I should. But it's one of those things. It's the most humbling and rewarding part of my career.

[Doug Glanville]

So, Billy, I mean, you mentioned hearing from so many players, some of which, when you're young, it's like whether they're icons or ghosts or something, but there's something so different about hearing from people from so many generations before. And now, maybe 50 years from now, there's going to be a kid walking through the hall, see in your plaque. So I'm curious, you still have all this time, God willing, that you are able to write your story. You still have a lot of stories. It may not be on the mound anymore, but you're getting a sense of the other stories you can write between now and that kid walking 50 years from now. So I'm curious, what do you want to write? What else do you want to do through baseball now that you can't necessarily do it on the mound, but you still can tell its story?

[Billy Wagner]

Well, I do coach. And I think, you know, being a coach is like that being called coach is almost as humbling as being called dad. Because you. You have to be a mentor. You have to be realistic. You have to do a lot of things. And so when I'm dealing with a lot of kids and, you know, it's boys and. And now girls, I think I'm gonna coach with the USA Women's team. The story is perseverance, really. When you talk about the love of the game, because the game and Doug, you know as well as I, it is the most fun part. It's the high of highs and the low of lows. You can, you know, get the game winning, hit and punch out three one night, come out, walk One, a bloop and a blast, and you're the. You're the worst player to ever play strikeout. You know, it's the highs and lows that makes the journey so unique. And so having the ability to walk that line and talk to kids and. And coach and stuff like that going, hey, this game ain't meant to be easy. This game's not meant. Having an understanding and knowing that, hey, over 12 doesn't mean you're a bad player. Giving up a run doesn't mean you're a bad player. But I think it's having people that really have experienced it. The highs and the lows, those are the stories that are yet to be written, because I think the greatest players have people behind them that gave them the pat on the back boot in the butt that said, hey, you got this. You can do this. Hey, don't fall into the trap of somebody going, you're not good enough, or, you can't do this. You know, use these stepping stones. And so, you know, for me, my story comes from past coaches that have. Were there for me going, hey, don't let that person put you in a negative light. You. You go create your story. And so that's what I want to do with that person who I'm working with or. And down the road, somebody looks back and goes, yeah, you know, I got a phone call from Billy Wagner, just like I thought it was crazy. When I'm getting phone calls from, you know, Johnny Bench and Jim Palmer and. And these unbelievable people. Now, now to know that we're all pulling for you to be successful, I think that's. That's what I want my legacies and stories to. To be moving forward.

[Jason Stark]

So when you walk into that hall of Fame in January, July seems like it's really far away, and now it's not. What are you looking forward to most about induction weekend?

[Billy Wagner]

I don't know what I'm looking forward to because I don't know what it's going to be like. I know I'm excited to see the new teammates, the. The new. The guys that I've never met before, the heroes that I've always looked up to, the people that made me want to play this game, guys that motivated me, guys I played against, guys that I've watched, you know, hearing their stories. You know, I feel like that rookie coming in where Bagwell goes, hey, listen, I remember Baggy, Dougie Dre Beck and Daryl Kyle. They take me out to eat, and they go, hey, here's the. Here's the deal. And that's what it feels like. Hey, guys, you know, I want you to come in here, you sit down, you keep your mouth shut. If I ask for a beer, you go get a beer. But other than that, you come back and you sit here and you be quiet. You have nothing to offer right here. And that's sort of how I feel. It's like that rookie again. And so I'm going to come in and I'm going to sit my spot and I'm going to listen to a thousand stories and just be in awe and just really try to soak it in that. Listening to the greats of. The greats in their, their error. Because I always, I always thought that 50s to the early 90s were the golden age of baseball, where you, where there was a relationship with fans that is so much different now. But there was the way you played against other teammates that you respected was completely different. I mean, I'll take you out at home if it means winning the All Star Game nowadays. Hey, I'm throwing you BP now. Now I'm throwing you bp. It's, it's changed. And, you know, I look forward to hearing their stories and hearing, you know, how guys thought about facing other guys. I mean, it's like listening to, you know, Pete Rose talk about facing Nolan Ryan. Those stories are the ones that you're sitting back there and all of a sudden the inside stories that, that's what I'm looking forward to.

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[Jason Stark]

So all those legends are going to be sitting behind you while you give a speech. How much have you thought about that and what do you, what message do you want to convey in your speech?

[Billy Wagner]

One of humility, for sure. You know, perseverance. But you know, because it is a, you know, every one of us get to step onto that platform are on a different type of platform. And so we're going to be on a platform that, you know, racks the riches, you know, that it was a no brainer. But we all had a different path getting there. And, and I think for me, I just want to be able to sit there and show humility. How much I really appreciate the hall of Fame and the game and what it's done for me. But I also want to pass a message on to the the new guys coming in that to have this moment is a really unique moment. Do not pass up, do not take the game as personal as I did at times, but take it as passionate and, and really try to just inspire the next group to just love the game and play the game forward.

[Doug Glanville]

I was thinking of the mentorship and the brotherhood of baseball and you know, you pay it forward, right? You think about generations, you know so much about your fandom and before. Are there any particular mentors that you think about in this moment that you kind of circle or also might have been connected to a moment that really Changed your career?

[Billy Wagner]

Well, you know, there's so many. And I think, you know, when you start, you always have that first teammate who really kind of, you know, is enduring to you. You know, Baggy Bagwell has always been that guy for me who, you know, he didn't say a lot, but, man, he could tell you a million things with just a stare. He was that guy for me who. Who would. Who could say things to me or he. You know, we had a ton of conversations. I think the very first conversation I had with Bagwell, we. We had a day off, and he had rented this boat and was taking the team out when we're in San Diego and we're going around the harbor or whatever, and I'd never even been on it, but we're sitting there. But I'm sitting on the. I'm sitting on the cooler, and I'm just sitting there, mouth quiet. I ain't saying nothing. And all of a sudden, Baggie looks at me and goes, would you rather face a home run hitter or. Or a guy that can hip a contact us?

[Jason Stark]

Shoot.

[Billy Wagner]

I said, I'll face a home run hitter all day long. I said, you might get me once, but I'm probably going to strike you out. After he was so mad, he looked at me like, what? And I had no idea how offended he was. I was like, are you kidding me? I'm thinking. Because I didn't. I'm not looking at him as a home run here. I'm thinking, good hitter. So what I mean, you know, I think I'm getting compliments. You know, it's the older guys, too, I think, you know, when Bruce Suter got put into the. The hall of Fame, he. He came in and I can't remember where we were at, and came up to me, goes, hey, Wags. He goes, man, you know, you could have played in our air. You know, guys like that, when they give you that compliment, those are the guys. I remember Robin. Robin Roberts taking him out when we. When we play for the Phillies down in Clearwater, getting to know Koufax. I have Tommy John and Guy Conte's the bullpen coach. I'm down in Port St. Lucie, and all of a sudden, here comes Sandy Koufax and spends like, three days with me down there. And I mean, I could have cared less about my crib. So there was guys, no stories, and people that had such impact, and their stories were impactful. You know, your bullpen guys, how they came through and that camaraderie there was. There are so many Impactful people for any of us to get you to the hall of Fame, it's not a one man deal. There's, there's. I never walked out there and was like, hey, well, I'm going to strike out every single guy. You know, the, the great plays, the, the weird play that you get away with, you know, the diving play, or there is so many people that you look back and it's just like Jason was talking about, you know, there's so many people in that journey. You know, the catchers, the guys who were in the trenches with you, the bullpen guys, the bullpen coaches. Guys that I'm excited to see was a guy named Stretch Suba. He was our bullpen catcher for Houston. He called so many guys before me. Nolan Ryan Jr. R. Richards, he'd been in the bullpens with the greats of the greats. And you know, I invited him to come because he, he had seen it all. He'd seen the best of the best. He'd seen the best version of me, the worst version of me. And, you know, those people are hard to replace. You know, I'm looking forward to seeing the pitching coaches that are coming. The, the moments where the first time I get drafted and Brent Strom takes me out to the bullpen and goes, hey, I want you to close your eyes and throw the catcher. And I'm like, I'm not very good at, with my eyes open. How am I going to do this? And so just having those moments with Rick Peterson and guys like that, that really did have moments, you know, thinking back about the car rides with, with Tom Gladman when he was going for his 3,300th win, his wife would make me cookies every day he pitched. And if there was a pitcher who probably got the best of me, every time he pitched was glavin. And that was because, I mean, his wife, I would drive him to the stadium and you know, if we're home and she come out with cookies, oh, mom sitting here going, oh my gosh. And our bullpen was so uptight. But I mean, I don't know if I gave up a run or a hit when he pitched because he was just, I don't want that pressure. And so, you know, there's so many moments that you got to play with guys that were, were inspiring. I think of guys like Mike Maddox, who I played with and I'd gotten hurt and he came to me and goes, I just want you to know you're 80% better than most of our 100%. And you know, I'm thinking, what? And he's like, he goes, you can go out there and still compete better than most of us when we're at 100%. So understand there's a difference in being hurt and injured. And that's the first time he had been put to me that way. And, you know, that was a big moment for me to figure out, am I going to lay back or am I going to go full tilt and just go as hard as I can? And that really made a big difference in my ability to come back. When I did have Tommy John, when I had setbacks and bad moments, was that, you know, this is part of it.

[Jason Stark]

All right, I'm going to digress for just a second and tell you my Jeff Bagwell is induction weekend story. Because it's just an example of how these guys understand what you're going through and they want to help you through it. So before you go give your speech, there's a room in the Odessaga Hotel where everybody gathers to take the buses out to give the speeches. So my day, my speech, I'm the first one there because I was not going to be late for. For my speech. Okay? So I walk into this room and there's just a couple of people from the hall of Fame there. And we're sitting at a table and we're chit chatting and, you know, we're just doing the idle chit chat with whoever's around. And then all of a sudden, I looked up Billy and I realized this room was filled with the greatest players who ever lived, the legends of baseball. And also I was there and I could not breathe, I swear. So I got up and I thought, I'm just going to walk down the hall and go to the bathroom to breathe, okay? So I start down the Hall, Jeff Bagwell spots me. Now he's walking along with me and he said, how you doing? I said, I'm doing okay. It's just the legends of baseball are in that room and I can't help but ask myself, what am I doing in that room? And Jeff Bagwell looks at me and he says, oh, yeah, I feel the same way. And I said, hold on. You realize you're. You're one of them, right? And he said, oh, yeah, but I'm not a Hall of Famer the way those guys are hall of Famers. And just the humility, not just of him, but if so many of those people connect you all, you know what I mean? And they know what this is and you'll experience it. I Can't wait for you to experience.

[Billy Wagner]

Well, I think it's unique. Just listen to the passion. Like, you're talking, how the emotions. This is the most emotional moment. I mean, with my kids being born and. And getting all these things, the most emotional part is honestly being able to really look back and enjoy this. Because for me, as a. For the 16 seasons that I played, I never sit back, go, oh, man, I was really good this year. Oh, I'm, you know, I did this. Could never do it. I just never could take that moment off. And now to be able to sit back and have that moment. And just like you said, Baggie talks to me, and he'll. He'll talk to me about the speech, and he's, you know, Biz is talking about it. And, you know, I've probably spoken to seven or eight hall of Famers, and everybody attacks at the different way, but they also have unbelievable humility, the understanding of what's in the room and that, you know, we are just this big in. In the whole moment. But we've done the same things. We've, you know, bled the same. We. We've won the same. We've done all these great things. But, you know, to me, it's still. It's, you know, walking in there and, you know, as a kid, reading all these books, the Sandy Koufax book, watching the baseball bunch, watching all these things, and you, you, you. Now you're in. I mean, Lord knows what it'd be like. Ted Williams and, you know. You know, guys like that. That were DiMaggio and guys like that Mantle, and those moments would be like the stories told, you know, to have that moment. Because our errors, the errors that we played are so unique because listening to them talk about it and how we talk about it and stuff like that is just the growth of it. But it's the most emotional moment. I can't even imagine, because I know I'll be very emotional because I'm very emotional anyway. And I think that's why being a closer was easier for me, because I could let my emotions out in that moment. But for that time when you really got a. I can see it when you talk. I can see it when Baggie and Bish talk about that moment in which. Yeah, you're one of the best, Billy.

[Doug Glanville]

I mean, you talk about humility, and I still want to continue to bring up the story of having my flat tire in the Phillies parking lot and you in a suit going under, insisting that you need to change the tire. Of course, the front Office having a heart attack because their closer is about to have a car fall on them or something. I think of that because hearing you talk about humility, and we all share it in the game, because it is such a humbling game, but the fact that you embody that as well to your teammates, and I think it's important to underscore that, right? You just were kind of the guys. You had your alpaca farm as.

[Billy Wagner]

You know, it's hard to be the perfect teammate. It is so hard to be the perfect teammate, because to be the good teammate, sometimes you got to say the things that aren't flattering. The key to being the best teammate is kind of like Moises Alou, Tom Glavin, you guys like that. That knew how to say it in a. In a way that nobody ever got offended by it, but they knew that, hey, I got to straighten myself up. You know, that was what I always wanted to be. I was just way not cultured enough to sit there and sit in those way. But I did want. And I do think that I've always wanted to be helpful in any way. And so, you know, thinking about those things, you know, and I talked to. And it's funny, I always bring up Philadelphia, but Philadelphia was probably the moment that I look back and reflect on the best and the worst. But if I go sign somewhere, I have more Philly fans and met fans than I have anybody come in, and they always talk. I. I bet you it's crazy, but it's. You know, that moment was defining in how, you know, I have learned to coach kids to be better in moments and say, hope, let your emotions. Let's. Let's temper your emotions a little bit here so that you understand what's going on. Or I would say something in this way, not that way, because we try to do a lot of media stuff so that our kids go. Because I was not cultured in that way. Where. Hey, let's do a press conference. Oh, my God. There's 45 people here, and the person in the back didn't really hear the question here. And so all of a sudden, you know, it's been. Those are the things that, you know, I talked to Robin Roberts about. I talked to Mike Schmidt about Dallas Green. I have a letter from Dallas Green. It's probably the greatest letter ever. And I mean, oh, my God, I just got. I. I said something in the press, and it wasn't meant to be the way it was meant to made, but either way, it was put that way. And. And so I owned up. The team was so mad at me. Was. I mean, it was ugly. And I get a letter from Dallas Green. He says, hey, every team needs that guy. You're that guy. You keep being that guy. And it was just funny because he kept saying that guy. And it was just, you know, and Dallas Green was that old guy. And Larry Bow. I mean, those are the moments that I think you look back to this, and I always come out and I'm like, man, I was terrible. I was terrible. That was a terrible experience for me as a off the field player. But on the field, I don't know if I've ever been any better. I was like, I think I was probably the best two years of my career. But, you know, I wish I could have enjoyed that moment better with guys because Jimmy was tremendous. Utley was awesome. You have Ryan Howard. I mean, I could have been a much better teammate in that setting, but I was still so mad if the getting traded. Those are. Those are things I think about and try to really think about to these kids today. Even my own son who's playing and, you know, when he has his high of highs and his low of lows, I'm like, hey, let's keep it real. It's not personal. Let's understand that. And so, you know, those moments have created a moment for me to help others.

[Jason Stark]

Let me tell you something, Billy. Dallas Green was that guy. Larry Bowen was that guy. And this month, you are that guy.

[CC Sabathia]

Okay?

[Jason Stark]

Your month. It's the month of Billy. And I'm always so excited about hall of Fame induction weekend. Just talking to you this last half hour or so has gotten me so charged up. I honestly can't wait to get there. Can't wait to see it, and so grateful that you made time to visit our show that during such a crazy and exciting month for you.

[Billy Wagner]

Well, I still have one of the best pictures. Can you see that picture right there? Can you see that?

[Doug Glanville]

I see the hall of Fame logo.

[Billy Wagner]

And then, Jason, you sent me this picture.

[Jason Stark]

Oh, yeah.

[Billy Wagner]

You sent me that picture. And so that's my screensaver. And so. Oh, wow. I'm getting that picture taken. And so I thought that was one of the neatest pictures and. And stuff. I. I mean, I think that was. When I look at that, that's humility. I go, oh, wait a minute. There's a. There's a bigger role. There's a bigger role to this. So thank you for that picture, by the way, too. It was. It means a lot.

[Jason Stark]

My pleasure. I just. Doug, this was January and it was Billy's official photo shoot in the gallery in front of the giant hall of Fame logo. And it was such a cool sight. You know, I was so glad that I was there to see it, to snap it and to be able to pass it along to you because man, that's a moment in time for Billy Wagner.

[Billy Wagner]

It was. And you know, you know, I think it's unique. You create that bond because you got, you know, Ichiro, which all of a sudden you find out totally how cool the people are because everybody begins has a little bomb because it's all new to everybody. Cc. You find out more about CC and the Emotions and you start to hear the stories of, you know, Dick Allen and Dave Parker and things like that. Those are guys that, you know, I hate that, you know, the just do for them. I mean their impact on the game was very significant. You know, I mean I still to this day Kent to Kobe. I talked to Kobe probably a couple times a year. When I think about it, we always talk about those mom Willie stars or we talk about Dave Parker and you know, when Dave had passed, you know, I didn't realize that, you know, David played with Roberto Comini and then Roberto Kameny passed away in the plane crash, that he was the heir apparent. So coming behind that with that type of pressure and stigma and also, you know, it's like playing shortstop for the Yankees after Jeter leave this or Tom Brady or something. You're like, ah, wonderful. He, you know, he embraced that and he was such a powerful person and light hearted and, and I mean such a, you know, I mean he was an imposing figure as it was talking to Goose about Dick Allen and how much he really helped him as a pitcher and how he, you know, Goose is very, he gets emotional when he talks about Dick Allen because of how much he really set him down and talked to him about these things. So this moment for me is just like really understanding that the humility side of where everybody's feeling what it means to him and you know, you know, getting to see Big Papa, you know, Lee Smith, I mean those are, those are things that when I see those guys and what they had to go through and stuff like that, you know, you know, I'm excited.

[CC Sabathia]

Awesome, man. Awesome.

[Jason Stark]

Billy, thank you so much. Can't wait to see you soon in the Magic Kingdom. Cooperson, New York.

[Billy Wagner]

Well, I can't wait to see you.

[Doug Glanville]

Congratulations, man. It's great.

[Billy Wagner]

Thank you guys.

[Jason Stark]

Thanks for listening to the best of Starkville. You know, 2026 is right around the corner. So we'll be back soon talking about the greatest sport on earth, baseball.

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