The Windup: Starkville | Dan Shulman and Tom Hamilton Talk Crazy Seasons for the Blue Jays & Guardians

Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Jayson Stark & Doug Glanville
Guests: Dan Shulman (Voice of the Toronto Blue Jays), Tom Hamilton (Voice of the Cleveland Guardians, recent Frick Award Hall of Fame inductee)

Episode Overview

This episode of Starkville, The Athletic’s flagship baseball podcast, assembles a “Broadcasters Roundtable” with two of the most respected voices in baseball, Dan Shulman and Tom Hamilton. It examines the wild, record-setting late-season surges by both the Blue Jays and Guardians, analyzing the teams’ improbable comebacks, the factors behind their success, the emotions of their respective fanbases, and the broader shifts in how winning teams are built. The episode is rich in storytelling, personal insight, and a few comic asides, offering listeners both sharp analysis and behind-the-mic perspective as both clubs head into the home stretch.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Broadcasters Roundtable and Historic Comebacks

• Jayson Stark introduces the special episode: a look at the “wild final week of the regular season” with a focus on record-defying surges by Toronto and Cleveland.
• Stark highlights Cleveland’s comeback: “76 days ago...the Guardians trailed the Tigers by 15 and a half games. How many teams you think have ever come back from 15 and a half back at any point to finish first?” (05:00). The answer is zero; the closest was the 1914 “Miracle Braves” at 15 games.
• Doug Glanville jokes that the Guardians’ new clubhouse “actually goes all the way to Detroit… eventually that led to the collapse that they're starting right now." (06:33)

2. Guardians’ Surreal Run and Blue Jays’ Transformation

• Tom Hamilton on Cleveland’s run (11:47):
  • “It's almost surreal, Doug, in that, you know, you're not supposed to go 15 and 2 this time of the year.”
  • On context: “On September 4th, this ball club was still two games under .500 and was 11 and a half games out of first.”
  • Highlights “incredible starting pitching,” a six-man rotation, resilience after losing key players, and Detroit’s monumental collapse.
• Dan Shulman on Toronto’s secret sauce (13:22):
  • Praises manager John Schneider’s growth and adaptability: “He is much more comfortable and confident in his decision making.”
  • Emphasizes improved internal communication as “foster[ing] an incredible sense of togetherness...improved communication fostered an incredible sense of togetherness on this team.”
  • The “secret sauce”: bench contributors and unexpected performers like Ernie Clement, Davis Schneider, and Tyler Heineman.
  • “Every single player they have on this team is a positive contributor and to me that's the biggest reason why they are where they are.” (14:53)

3. A Record-Breaking Journey & Lessons from Unlikely Success

• Hamilton on the Guardians’ resurrection (15:25):
  • Outlines historic adversity: “They had a 10-game losing streak in July and then in August lost nine out of 10...yet you've still recovered from that.”
  • Not a powerhouse: “This is a ball club that scratches and claws every night for three or four runs.”
  • On camaraderie: “When all 28 guys feel like they're a part of it, that gives you a closeness that is really hard to overcome.”
• Shulman on the stakes in Toronto (18:00):
  • Being a “non-American team” means sometimes “out of sight, out of mind.”
  • Significance: “The Blue Jays haven't won the division since 2015, so it would mean a lot...Winning the division and getting a bye is the big, big regular season prize.”

4. Fanbase Responses and Team Identity

• Hamilton on Cleveland fans (22:02):
  • “I think a lot of the city...said, well, you know, they're a nice story...but we're not going back to the playoffs...So I think in some ways this has caught people off guard.”
  • Notes an emerging rivalry with Detroit—potential for a rematch in the wild card series.
  • “People here have gotten really spoiled...this ball club's been in the playoffs seven times in the last 12 years.”
• Shulman on Jays fandom and Canada’s team (24:16):
  • Unique dynamic: “We broadcast to a country, right? There’s only one baseball team in the whole country.”
  • “There’s a real likability amongst the players...our fan base has really fallen in love with this team because...they've got a kind of grinders mentality.”
  • Blue Jays fans travel: “When the Blue Jays go to Seattle, there are more Blue Jay fans there than Mariners fans.”

5. Pitching Puzzles and Bullpen Revolutions

• Blue Jays’ Postseason rotation (26:00):
  • Gosman and recently traded Shane Bieber as top starters. Max Scherzer has uneven recent form; Chris Bassitt is on the IL but could return.
  • “I could see them, Jason, going, Gosman, Bieber and then patch it together like teams do in October after that.” (27:48)
• Guardians’ Bullpen since Clase suspension (27:50):
  • Hamilton recounts devastating clubhouse mood: “It was almost like you were in a funeral home. It was that somber.”
  • Unexpected heroes: “Now you've got Cade Smith, a young kid who is from Canada...Hunter Gattis, Tim Heron. But then you've got these unlikely heroes, a Kobe Allard, a Matt Festa and Eric Zabrowski.”
  • “It's kind of why we love our game, isn't it?...my former partner Herb Score said, you don't predict that's why they play the games. And this is living proof.” (30:10)

6. Who’s the Scariest Team in the AL?

• Shulman: “I would say right now the Seattle Mariners. They scare me.” (30:59)
• Hamilton: “I think it's down to Seattle and Toronto...Both the Mariners and the Blue Jays...It's a flip of the coin between those two teams.” (31:29)

7. Philosophy Behind Roster Moves: Bieber’s Guardians Exit

• Hamilton: The Guardians trade Shane Bieber not as a white flag, but a recognition of the team’s window and Bieber’s contract status: “They weren't giving up on the season, but they were realistic enough to know that they weren't in the place they were a year ago.” (32:21)

8. “Circle That Game”: Defining Moments of 2025

• Hamilton’s pick: July sweep of the Astros after a 10-game losing streak: “That was where you were like, how in the world did that happen?...That series didn't necessarily turn around the season, but I thought they could go to Houston and get wiped out and then you don't know how long the spiral is.” (34:27)
• Shulman’s picks:
  • Canada Day grand slam by George Springer to sweep the Yankees in July (“there's something different in this town...when the Blue Jays do well against the Yankees”).
  • Mason Flu Hardy, “a rookie left hander,” escaping a bases-loaded jam at Dodger Stadium against Shohei Ohtani and Mookie Betts. “That’s what has made both the teams, Cleveland and Toronto, good this year—it can't all be stars.” (35:00–37:03)

9. Personal Highs: Hall of Fame and Familial Broadcasting

• Hamilton on Cooperstown induction: “At the end of the day, the Hall of Fame is about the players...but that week...they made you feel like you were one of them.” (37:17)
• Shulman on having his son Ben as Blue Jays radio voice:
  • “There are 30 television play by play announcers and 30 radio play by play announcers...the 60 of us are the luckiest people in the world.”
  • “What's fun about it is...the older I get and the more seasoned he gets, the more he's helping me rather than me helping him. He's my IT guy, like he's everything.” (38:45)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Tom Hamilton (on the Guardians’ turnaround):
  “At no point do you think that you’re even a .500 ball club, much less a playoff contender...For the last 17 games, they've had a starting pitcher not give up more than two runs. That's just hard to fathom.” (11:47)
• Dan Shulman (on this season’s Blue Jays):
  “The secret sauce of this team, a guy I didn't mention...Ernie Clement...It's the Lucases and the Clements and the Davis Schneiders...Every single player they have on this team is a positive contributor.” (14:52)
• Jason Stark (explaining the statistical oddity):
  “If the Guardians pull this off...that would break a record set in 1914 by the Miracle Braves. And when the nickname of that team is ‘Miracle,’ what the Guardians have a chance...” (15:03)
• Tom Hamilton (on Hall of Fame induction):
  “The Hall of Fame is about the players...But that week and that weekend, they made you feel like you were one of them. And that is something I'll never forget.” (37:17)
• Dan Shulman (on sharing the booth with his son):
  “It's fun watching him. I see myself from 30 years ago in some ways. So it makes me very proud as a dad. Not the broadcaster he is, but the son he is, the person he is.” (41:02)

Summary of Important Segments and Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------| | 02:38 | Opening banter, set-up of the episode, leading to the broadcasters’ roundtable | | 04:56 | Context—Guardians’ historic chase, improbable comebacks, comparison to 1914 Braves | | 08:08 | Introduction of guests—Dan Shulman and Tom Hamilton | | 11:47 | Hamilton on the surreal Guardians run and pitching streak | | 13:22 | Shulman on Blue Jays’ “secret sauce”: flexibility, communication, bench contributors | | 15:02 | The miracle scenario: Guardians chasing a 1914 record | | 18:00 | Shulman on what winning the AL East means to Toronto and its fans/country | | 22:02 | Hamilton on how Cleveland fans are processing their team’s wild run | | 24:16 | Shulman on the Blue Jays’ broad and passionate Canadian fan base | | 26:00 | Jays’ rotation and pitching decisions for October | | 27:50 | Hamilton on bullpen’s resilience since Clase suspension | | 30:59 | Who scares you most in AL? Both: Seattle Mariners and Toronto Blue Jays | | 32:21 | On trading Shane Bieber—balancing today and tomorrow | | 33:58 | “Circle That Game” defining moments: Houston sweep for Guardians, Canada Day/Yankees and Dodgers/Ohtani moments for Jays | | 37:10 | Hamilton’s Hall of Fame reflections | | 38:45 | Shulman sharing Jays season with his son Ben, who’s on radio | | 43:53–49:19 | Humorous “Strange But True” segment about Tyler Heineman’s pitching disaster for Blue Jays—giving up 13 hits and 10 runs on 33 pitches | | 50:07–56:55 | Listener trivia (“Who hit homers in 40 parks but not 400 lifetime?” — Answer: Ellis Burks) |

Notable “Strange But True” Segment

The Epic Tyler Heineman Outing (43:53–49:19)

• The crew recaps backup catcher Tyler Heineman’s position-player pitching outing, giving up 13 hits and 10 runs in just 33 pitches.
• Shulman: “He may have given up 13 hits. He may have given up 10 runs, but Tyler Heineman did get twice as many outs in that game as the starting pitcher [Scherzer] did.”
• Glanville jokes: “It, it rolled downhill and then it just went off a cliff. And then it left the Earth's orbit gravitational field.” (45:40)

Listener Trivia (50:07–56:55)

• “Who is the only player to have homered in 40 or more parks but not hit 400 home runs?”
• After several incorrect guesses, the correct answer: Ellis Burks.

Final Notes & Tone

• The episode is upbeat and full of mutual respect, both personal and professional, between the hosts and their guests.
• There’s a focus on the unpredictability of baseball, the importance of team chemistry and flexibility, and the privilege of telling these stories to fans.
• The roundtable ends with both Hamilton and Shulman reflecting on their good fortune—the impact of Hall of Fame recognition and sharing baseball with family.

In Short

If you’re following the AL playoff race, or just want to understand how two teams defied expectations in completely different ways, this episode gives you the story from inside the clubhouse, inside the broadcast booth, and inside the hearts of two cities. It’s a rich tapestry of analysis, humor, history, and genuine baseball love—told by the voices who know it best.