← The Windup: A show about Baseball
The Windup: A show about Baseball
Starkville | Dodgers President Stan Kasten talks about if they are ruining baseball by winning so much
01:16:46
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Doug Glanville
Hey Podcast listener, We'd like to hear what you think about podcasts.
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Jason Stark
Including this one, and offer you a.
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Doug Glanville
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Jason Stark
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Doug Glanville
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Jason Stark
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- [00:55]
Doug Glanville
Chance to win a $100Amazon gift card.
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Jason Stark
That's podcastsurvey co.
- [01:00]
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Jason Stark
Greetings and welcome to Starkville Baseball hall.
- [01:59]
Stan Kasten
Of Famer Jason Stark.
- [02:01]
Jason Stark
And then the robot said strike. That's why you're going in the hall of Fame.
- [02:05]
Stan Kasten
It's an inside the park hold Broad.
- [02:08]
Doug Glanville
Douglasville Mike Trout is coffee at Starbucks with a double latte Skinny Doug, are.
- [02:14]
Jason Stark
You ready to make some podcast magic?
- [02:17]
Doug Glanville
I am ready. Bring on the magic wand. Let's do it.
- [02:30]
Jason Stark
Greetings and welcome to Starkville. I'm Jason Stark. I write about baseball for the Athletic and I am joined once again by my good friend, writer, substacker, broadcaster, professor, distinguished former major leaguer, and our favorite voice of baseball on espn, Doug Glanville. Doug, how the heck are you?
- [02:55]
Doug Glanville
It's amazing. Like what do you Do. Baseball is kind of over, so I'm focusing on winter ball now in Puerto Rico. Good memories. Yes. So. But yeah, I think I'm good. No planes, no trains, A lot of automobiles, though. I'm kind of Uber dad right now. Not getting paid though, unfortunately.
- [03:14]
Jason Stark
But yeah, the meter's not running. It never is.
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Doug Glanville
No, it's just 24 hours a day. Keeps running spontaneous, you know. Just amazing. You have to teleport with Uber dad. It's pretty cool.
- [03:27]
Jason Stark
Yeah. Let me tell you how I've spent the last week since our post World Series show. It is unbelievable how much sleeping I've done. Just trying to recover from national sleep Deprivation Month.
- [03:41]
Doug Glanville
Yes.
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Jason Stark
I mean, those first couple of nights, man, I was putting in 10 hours a night, and then later I'd need to work in a nap. It's crazy what happens when you work all night. You know what always makes me laugh, Doug, is those sleep experts who tell you, be sure to go to bed and wake up at the same time every day. There's one thing I know about the sleep experts. They have never worked one day in baseball, am I right?
- [04:08]
Doug Glanville
Nor in zone defense. Outnumbered by children, they're just like, there's no way. I don't know what they're talking about.
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Jason Stark
It's survive in advance.
- [04:16]
Doug Glanville
That's it.
- [04:19]
Jason Stark
So here in Starkville, and actually on this whole wind up feed, we're about to move into our off season schedule mode. So just letting you know, there won't be a Starkville every single week moving forward. We'll be here just a little less regularly than during the season. But. But you should know we have a great show this week. Stan Kasten, president of the Dodgers, is visiting Starkville for the first time. That'll be good. Are the Dodgers ruining baseball? You know, I'm not a betting man, but I bet that comes up. We also have some fun calls from you, our listeners, to our Starkville hotline. You know that number 267 22-79867 or what is it again, Doug?
- [05:09]
Doug Glanville
It's bop bop zoomp with a z. Bop bop zoomp.
- [05:13]
Jason Stark
Don't call Bap bop zoomp. That won't work.
- [05:16]
Doug Glanville
Nope, that won't not work.
- [05:17]
Jason Stark
We're gonna take some calls and we'll have one of those classic Doug Glanville stories in our dugout segment, which is back, and it's such a beloved staple of every off season. But first, Doug, I think we need to talk about something serious. I know we don't do a lot of that in this show. But over the weekend, two pitchers for the Cleveland Guardians, Emmanuel Clase and Luis Ortiz, were indicted and charged with wire fraud and multiple counts of conspiracy revolving around accusations they were working with gamblers to help them win hundreds of thousands of dollars on prop bets. Now, none of this has been proven yet, so all of this is just being alleged. But if you read Zach Meisel's amazing story in the Athletic about this, it gets your attention, I'll tell you that. I'll recap a little bit. The indictment contains charges that both of these pitchers were purposely spiking a bunch of sliders in the dirt to help their gambling associates win bets on how hard a particular pitch would be thrown and whether it would be a strike or a ball. The indictment says over 100 of those bets were placed on Classe alone over the last three seasons. And as evidence, it includes texts and videos, which are extremely powerful. Doug, this comes at a time when the NBA is also dealing with a major gambling scandal. And neither of these figures to be the last time we'll all be talking about this issue. Gambling and sports. So, Doug, I'm really interested in how you react as a former player and a guy with such a strong moral compass.
- [07:17]
Doug Glanville
It's not shocking from the standpoint of when it's swirling around you, there's going to be opportunists. And I think that's just true. Even like sort of pre gambling era of sports or baseball, when you talk about how close it is, you know, as a player, you have access and you're surrounded by people that may want something from you. And that could be on a small scale of like, you know, you're 13th cousin twice removed, once alone or whatever. But it could also be very intimate because you have power, you have the ability to shape a game potentially, and you have people that see you as sort of a cash register or an opportunity. And so, you know, there's a lot of questions around, well, you know, this guy makes all this money, I don't understand. But the thing about the competitive nature of the sport or the athlete is that they love the rush, they love the challenge, they love that feeling. And it doesn't turn off when you're off the field. It doesn't turn off when you're in the off season. And there's something there that can be exploited. And so doesn't matter really what you make. But if it matters, if you could be compromised. And there's a lot of opportunities to compromise athletes, not just in this gambling world. So I kind of start there And I think as a player, like, I look at Class A, and I pulled up his numbers from his. You know, he was third in Cy Young voting, 11th in MVP, I believe just 20, 24. And this guy had 47 saves, 0.61 ERA. I mean, just a dominant. Dominant one of the greatest relief seasons of all time. And you sit there and you say, as a teammate of his, you're like, well, this guy is, you know, lights out. But then, you know, he had a tough postseason, and you're trying to win a ballgame with, you know, an honest effort, and then someone on your team is literally just throwing away pitches, throwing away, basically your team's chances to win. Yeah, you need more than the closer, but that is hard to stomach as a person, that you're just head to the grindstone trying to just win a ball game and just make your best effort. I just think that that is so offensive. As a player, it's not shocking how this stuff swirls around you, but it's just more stunning that you played a couple years with someone that may have done this right? So the idea of any player compromising the team in that level where you're just making a decision potentially to not make your best effort is highly frustrating. I mean, you go back to Pete Rose as a player manager, it compromises everybody. It compromises the integrity of the game. And that's important because people. You want people to believe that this is authentic. And when it's rigged and when you can just push a button, it changes everything. The game is so. So that is a. You know, we're going to hear a lot more about this, but I do think it's pretty easy. You mentioned prop bets when somebody's able to bet on an individual event, right? Just, you're going to throw a ball here, you're going to throw. You're going to strike out here. Whatever it is that brings it really close to home. Because it's not just like your team wins, your team loses. This is your individual performance. And what I guess is concerning is, you know, if you fail at that, maybe even unbeknownst to you, if you're not. You're not involved in this stuff, you know, are you in jeopardy? You know, you put people in jeopardy. You really do. And that should not be left to one person. So, you know, it's a team, and there's a reason for that. So I think the idea of just being compromising an entire team for your own selfish gain, that just starts a bad spiral. And when you have stuff around you where it could amplify that. There's really nowhere to go. So I think it's gonna have to, you know, it's gonna be swift, whatever it is. But I imagine the outcome, should this turn out to be true, is gonna be really severe.
- [11:10]
Jason Stark
Oh, yeah. You know, these prop bets are a thing. If you remember during the postseason, Tony Clark was on the field, I think it was before the first or second game of saying he'd like baseball to get out of the prop bet business for lots of reasons. Prop bets, there's. That's a thing I've wondered about for a long time. I actually even looked into something along these lines as far back as 2018. You might remember this, Doug. There was a game that season in which Jordan Hicks, who was then pitching for the Cardinals, had an at bat against Odubo Herrera, who was then with the Phillies. And in this at Batman, Jordan Hicks threw two pitches over 105 miles an hour and two more over 104. And those four pitches came in a row in the same at bat. And it got my attention not just because it was great fodder for the Strange but true column, but because he had never thrown a pitch that hard in his career before. Those four pitches in that one at bat. And little update, he's never thrown a pitch that hard since. And it all happened on four straight pitches in the same at bat. I'll admit I poked around a little bit on that. I was told that at least back in those days, you couldn't make a prop bet on the speed of any particular pitch. But if you read Zach's story, it's pretty clear you can now. And Doug, it makes me uncomfortable. How about you?
- [12:48]
Doug Glanville
That level, it's so direct and you have so much control. That's part of the whole sort of betting power, right? It's how much control do you drill down from, like a team outcome, which, you know, can be a series of factors and a series of sort of actors where you go really granular. So I literally, as the player, have control. I mean, I could swing. I cannot swing. I could throw harder. I could throw a slider. I could shake off pitches. And the thing I'm wondering a lot about, reading about Class A and Ortiz, is what do you think the catchers were thinking, right? There had to be some moment where the catcher is like, why is he shaking me off? Why is he telling me I'm going to throw this first pitch? You know, I don't know. I'm wondering about that conversation. And Even their own suspicion, like, why is this guy bouncing pitches? You know, it's. You know, it's strange, right? But that is the difference. It goes to the individual control. And as we establish, any one person could get compromised. It might be compromised because they're just greedy or whatever, but they might be compromised from all kind of factors we don't even understand. Family stressors, stuff at home, the whole process of trying to make it from the Dominican Republic, whatever it is, there's a whole lot of things we may not even understand. But at the same time, when you put it on the individual to have that much power, not only is it you're in control, but it's that all these other people know that that may be just trying to grift and shave off of you, right? And that's the other thing. Like, you could. It's a lot easier to be like, hey, I could compromise you. And, you know, maybe I'm appealing to your ego. Maybe I'm. Whatever it is. Versus, like, okay, the Cleveland Guardians or whatever are gonna lose a game today. And, you know, we don't have access to the manager in, like, the Pete Rose case. So that's what's scary about it. I don't know how you make that a different reality when you're just putting it on, really, one person.
- [14:47]
Jason Stark
In the big picture for baseball, for all sports, you have this pact with your fans that what they're watching is real. What you're watching is two teams, a set of players, and all they're in it for is to win that game, win that matchup, win that at bat, win that inning. And I don't know how much more of this is going to come out, but every time it does, it chips away at that trust. It's a big issue. But I think what happened earlier this week, when baseball reached an agreement with all the major sportsbook outlets to limit prop bets on individual pitches to no more than $200 is a really important step. There's one more thing to remember. This is a thing every player should be very aware of. Now that we live in an age of legalized gambling, every bet is tracked, every one. So if you're a player and you do this, this is proof you're not going to get away with it. If there's an unusual pattern of gambling involving any player or any team or any game, somebody's going to see that now. So the alarm bells are ringing, the sirens are sounding. Legalized sports betting may raise a lot of issues. It's obviously brought all forms of gambling to another level. But one good thing. It also means that the chances of any player getting away with something like this are now slim and none. And I'm rooting hard for none. It's time to welcome in this week's special visitor to Starkville. It's the president of those Los Angeles Dodgers and a man who always has some thoughts. The legendary Stan Kasten joins us. Stan, welcome to America's favorite tourist destination, Starkville. How are you?
- [16:56]
Stan Kasten
I always want to get here. I feel like a tourist. This is great.
- [17:01]
Jason Stark
I told Andrew when he was on that, you know, he'd done a lot in his career. Now he's made it. He's made it to Starkville now. Same with you.
- [17:09]
Stan Kasten
It took me longer than Andrew, but okay, whatever. Happy to be here.
- [17:13]
Jason Stark
We're very happy to have you. So, before we get started, I should let people know that Doug had to step away for a few minutes. So this fun little chat will be just me and Stan. Doug has contributed some questions that I'll be asking in his stead. It's kind of like Andy Pages going in for defense in the middle of an inning in a World series game, wouldn't you say, Stan?
- [17:35]
Stan Kasten
Pretty close and plotted out well in advance, just like you've done here. So great.
- [17:40]
Jason Stark
Exactly. So, Stan, you just finished up another World Series parade, and I think we should make sure to ask, have you gotten all the champagne and ticker tape out of your clothes and what's left of your hair?
- [17:54]
Stan Kasten
I have all of that. I haven't quite absorbed this World Series. It still seems a little unreal to me because there were 20 times, if a ball had bounced a different way, we would have lost that World Series. I don't remember anything quite like. I swear, I've been through a lot of these. Like you. I don't remember that many inflection points that could have changed everything if they had gone the other way.
- [18:24]
Jason Stark
That's a really good point. I think I've told you my great idea for a 30 for 30 or a documentary about the postseason, and I would call it one bounce of the ball, because every October, there's always that one bounce of the ball that changes everything. But you're right. There were 20 in this world Series. And, I mean, you don't have any control of that. How hard is that to. To watch that unfold?
- [18:51]
Stan Kasten
It's very hard. It's hard if you're a fan. Oh, imagine if your livelihood depended on that.
- [18:57]
Jason Stark
Right.
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Stan Kasten
It's really hard. But I want to say this and I want to say this about the Toronto Blue Jays, a fantastic organization and a fantastic team. I was with the Braves in 1991 and we lost the World Series in extra innings of game seven. Now, I have said for 30 some years that's the most painful any loss can be. And now I will say to you, I think Toronto had that same kind of loss twice in this series. Two nights in a row in game six and seven. And forget game three, 18 innings with a home run. But game six and seven, which ended on a double play, an unpredictable double play, when a different bounce would have given the series to them. That's a kind of pain no one deserves. And I feel for them. I really do.
- [19:50]
Jason Stark
Yeah, I do, too. I mean, somebody was going to have to lose and it was going to be painful, but that was an incredibly painful way to lose. And you actually dropped a stat on me the day after the World Series that I honestly hadn't thought about about game ending double plays two nights in a row. I'm going to give you a chance to deliver it again.
- [20:11]
Stan Kasten
I don't remember because I've been lost in stat since this ended. All the things that had never happened before, most of them I got from you, but don't remember that particular one.
- [20:23]
Jason Stark
Okay, so I think what you told me was that no World Series had ever ended before on a double play with the. The winning run on base. The go ahead run on base. What. Whatever the terminology was.
- [20:37]
Stan Kasten
Oh, yeah, with time run on base.
- [20:38]
Jason Stark
Yeah, yeah. And then it happened two games in a row in game six and seven.
- [20:44]
Stan Kasten
Yeah.
- [20:45]
Jason Stark
Wow, that's a good one, man. I appreciate that. Next time one of those things occurs to you, just text me. Okay, I'll get it in the column. And. And then game seven, you know, I think that was the greatest Game seven ever played. I imagine it might have been difficult to appreciate in the moment for someone like you. Was it excruciating to watch that game unfold even though it ended?
- [21:10]
Stan Kasten
Well, it's interesting. Well, first of all, I would put right up there game seven in 91.
- [21:16]
Jason Stark
Yes.
- [21:17]
Stan Kasten
Where both teams in the eighth inning had second and third or bases loaded, nobody out, and neither team scored. That happened in the eighth inning of Game 7. So that's right up there. But this one, I'll tell you the truth, at the bottom of the seventh, I was in the suite with my family and a lot of people running around and I said goodbye to all of them because after the Bichette home run, I was kind of resigned to losing the game. And so I stuck it out. Bottom of the seventh, I have to go downstairs because they know I have to be in the locker room. If we lose, that's something I have to do that for. So I went down, I was prepared. And then things just started happening. Max hits the home run. The eighth, like, oh, my. One run. The one run we gave up, you know, a couple innings before is costing us. And then Miggy does his thing. Like, what? And then Will does. So. Yeah, it was. It was brutal. I expected to lose all the way. You know, I think I kind of expected to lose all the time. After the Bichette home run, I was in that mindset. But I do know we have resilient guys who, who don't give up. Most teams that get to the World Series are built like that. We're certainly one of those teams. And luckily it went our way this time.
- [22:38]
Jason Stark
It did. So here's a bigger picture question. So you've won now three times in 2020. What was this one different? I'm talking about the path to this title. How was this one different from 2024? 2020 was obviously a totally different kind of year, but so not so much the winning, but the path to winning. The philosophies of how you build a winner.
- [23:04]
Stan Kasten
Well, I think our philosophies are consistent, but the things that happened along the way were markedly different. Remember, you know, the media narrative early on we were going to ruin baseball because we were so good. Yeah. On paper we're that good. If no player ever misses a game all season. Yeah, okay, maybe so that doesn't happen, but what happened to us this year was the complete other direction. We lost player after player after player. Now we have depth and some creativity and we were able to fill in and eke out a mere 93 wins. But none of us felt fulfilled with 93 wins because we had expectations for ourselves. We had always top 93 wins before with less talented teams. But the injuries did catch up to us. However, we didn't panic at the trade deadline because we looked at each other and said, the injuries we have, the so called injuries. It looks like everyone's going to be at full strength by October. That's a hard thing to project, but that's pretty much what happened. And then we were able to get ahead of Steam. And so living through all of that was different than, I think, other years where, you know, we had most of our team. We were just chugging along, trying to do the best we can and fearing that we could get knocked out in the first round because it's baseball and that happens. But it was true that while we struggled in the middle of the year, we did pick up that head of steam with a healthy team by October.
- [24:35]
Jason Stark
Yeah, luckily you were able to recover in time to ruin baseball. What a break. So let's go. Let's go down this road just a little bit. Okay, first off, I want to run a quote by you. It's from Jason Kelsey. I'm guessing you've heard of him. He's not the Kelsey brother who is engaged to Taylor Swift, if that helps. Okay. So after the Dodgers won. Won the World Series, he had a hot take that seemed like it kind of set the Internet on fire. He said baseball stinks. He didn't say stinks. You just buy World Series championships. It's the dumbest thing in the world. Stan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
- [25:16]
Stan Kasten
First of all, history demonstrates that's not true, because usually the team with the highest payroll doesn't win the World Series. So I hate to throw facts at him, but I will throw one quote from someone in his city, and that's Bryce Harper, who said the only people complaining are losers. I think he's exactly right. What got us to the position we're in the position of being able to have lost the World Series at any point in the World Series 20 different ways, was because, yes, we had a high payroll, but those people need to be led and developed, and we need to be backed up by a farm system that is productive year in, year out. Without that, we couldn't compete and just buying a world championship. If it were true, more teams would be trying that approach. It's not true. You need everything to succeed. And I use my teams in Atlanta to remind people. Everyone describes those teams in Atlanta as Glavomatic Smoltz. Well, remember, all three of them were acquired by the Braves in the three different ways you acquire players. One was developed, one was acquired in the trade, and one was signed as a free agent. And that's what every team needs to do. Use all the tools to get there. So I will. I will refrain from making any more caustic responses to Jason Isn't Toddler's opinion. I'm glad he's watching. I'm glad he's watching.
- [26:48]
Jason Stark
He's watching.
- [26:49]
Doug Glanville
Yeah.
- [26:49]
Jason Stark
And you might remember this spring, we had a fun little conversation after Hal Steinbrenner, the owner of the Yankees, announced that his team was no longer the Evil Empire that was your team. And we talked. You seemed kind of dubious. At the time. So I'm just wondering, now that you've won another World Series, is he on to something yet?
- [27:09]
Stan Kasten
Well, first of all, if you ruin baseball, I guess you have to be evil, right? That just goes without saying. But I think both things are false because we work hard at all the traditional things that have made baseball a great game forever. Don't forget we won a game in Philly, Jason, by executing the wheel play that was not the result of lots and lots of money spent. That was having good players, smart players, working, training, preparing. So I understand the media narrative about ruining sports. Even the people who wrote it weren't serious about it because quite the contrary, what the Dodgers and their profile have done in the last couple of years contribute to an enormous number of new fans following us, following our sport, not just domestically, but around the world. All of that's really good for baseball. All 30 teams share in the benefit of our sport growing. I'm happy to play any role we can in growing our sport.
- [28:17]
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- [29:48]
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- [30:37]
Doug Glanville
Today.
- [30:42]
Jason Stark
51 million people watched game seven. 51 million. That's across the United States, Canada and Japan. And I do think that is telling us that not only are the Dodgers not ruining baseball, they're drawing eyeballs to baseball around the world. Is that basically what you're saying?
- [31:01]
Stan Kasten
No question about it. And I'll remind Hal that when he was the evil empire, he didn't ruin baseball either. Many have tried. They've all failed. Baseball is still here and very, very strong.
- [31:14]
Jason Stark
Yeah. You know, when I ask you about Japan, what the Dodgers are doing to turbocharged interest in Major League Baseball in Japan, it's incredible. It's obviously working great for the Dodgers. How do you think it's working for the rest of the sport?
- [31:29]
Stan Kasten
Well, let's remember we have three Japanese players. I think that's more coincidence than anything else. There are plenty really good Japanese players spread around the major leagues. We all know about that. I don't see us ever having a team exclusively or even primarily Japanese players, but will continue to follow it. And I think what we have done is highlight for everyone that there is a real stream of talent there that we should all be tapping into. I'll never forget I was again doing my duty in Atlanta when this player named Ichiro came over here. And I'm going to tell you, until Ichiro came over here, we didn't know that a Japanese position player could really succeed here. We didn't know that. And then we find out. Wait a second he's actually the best player in the world, including here in the major leagues. We found that out and that opened a lot of doors. So we all learn from the lessons that other teams show us. We all copy whatever good practices we can see. And us pursuing the Japanese players is one thing. Let's face it, we do have not just the economic advantages of supportive ownership and a supportive marketplace, but we also have the geographic advantage of being in la, which is close to Japan. We have a very, very prominent Japanese contingent living in our community, so that's a good place for Japanese players. But until there was a DH in the National League, the best Japanese player chose to play in the American League. So, you know, we're not inventing anything. We're trying to capitalize on the circumstances that currently prevail. But we also know we are setting an example for other people to copy and improve on around baseball as it has always been and always will continue to be, I think.
- [33:30]
Jason Stark
Yeah, except I do hear other teams, and certainly their fans grumbling. It's a problem for baseball because every great player from Japan is just going to automatically sign with the Dodgers, assuming you are interested, if he fits in your team. You know, it does seem like you have cornered the market on two of the very best pitchers we've seen come here, right in Sasaki and Yamamoto, not to mention Shohei. If all the great players in Japan want to play for the Dodgers, first and foremost, does that create any, any kind of significant competitive balance issue for the sport?
- [34:10]
Stan Kasten
I will refer you to my friend Bryce Harper's comment that the only people complaining are losers. We're not cornering anything. We are very popular in Japan and you should know the lion's share, if not all of that interest and money that flows from that popularity goes to Central Baseball. They own those rights. All teams share all, all teams benefit. But there's no question that the combination of our profile, our legacy, our history, combined with Shohei's profile was baseball putting its best foot forward. That was just something that no one, no one could have engineered unless this team wanted it and Shohei wanted, and it worked out well for everybody. Baseball doesn't usually get that lucky with business developments, but they did here because it propelled baseball popularity and sales in everything to another level. Because the fit was so perfect. Everyone doesn't have that kind of fit, right? Even when he played for the Angels, which is pretty close, the fit wasn't quite what it is here. What we are doing, as I've said before, and which I think is Manifestly evident is really good for all of baseball, and we're proud of that.
- [35:31]
Jason Stark
You know, Doug and I are, I would say, borderline obsessed with Shohei. Do you have a favorite story of the Shohei negotiations?
- [35:40]
Stan Kasten
I have a couple. I told him we were sitting around once, and I told him, you know, we first started pursuing you not six years ago, but 10 years ago, when he was making the decision, does leaving high school, does he play over there, or does he sign with the Dodgers? Our scouts, we thought, were able to convince his family to come here. In the end, his father prevailed in keeping him there. Who can argue with that decision? But I said, six years ago, you made a decision, and if you'd made a different decision, it would have changed your life and our lives for the better. And I looked at him in the eye, I said, don't make the same mistake. He just laughed out loud. And then the other thing I do need to tell you, he was walking around the clubhouse, and we were still one of those teams that only had one batting cage. Okay, fine. We only had one batting cage. You know, other teams I'm seeing, you know, they have two batting cages. Okay?
- [36:33]
Listener Caller
Really?
- [36:33]
Stan Kasten
You think we should have two? That's in our plan. We're going to have two batting cages. So we did put in a second batting cage after his first year. It's time to put in the second batting cage. And to do that, we had to tear up the lower level of our ballpark. Tear out all the seats, tear, dig down, expand the facilities, do all that, and get a new batting cage along with a lot of other things. And so he's in my office one day in the off season, and we're looking down at the field, which is a construction site at its worst. Okay? It's just horrible because we're putting in the batting cage along with other things. And I say to him, show, you know, we need this other batting cage. I get it, but last year you did 50. 50. And last year we won the Silver Slugger for team Silver, for team offense. We did all that with one batting cage. So do we really need it? And he looks at me deadly seriously, and says, stan, the batting cage is my home. I go, okay, I got nothing to that then. But you got it. You know, you were not sincere about it, and I thought that was just great.
- [37:45]
Jason Stark
I love it. I think every year you win the World Series, you should add another batting cage. That'll keep him happy.
- [37:51]
Stan Kasten
It's weird you say that, because when we won this year, Silver Slugger also I went up to him and I said, if we hadn't, I would have really been upset. The batting cage.
- [38:02]
Doug Glanville
But.
- [38:02]
Stan Kasten
But it's really true that you've heard this before. After we win last year in Yankee Stadium, he comes up to me. He was saying to everyone, nine more to go, Stan. And then this year, as soon as it was over, the first thing he says is, eight more to go. He is. He's fixated on that and he keeps working toward it. And I'm not anyone to say he can't lead us to that. I'm not going to say it's impossible.
- [38:29]
Jason Stark
You can't say, that guy can't do anything. You know, this is a question from Doug. And you know, we knew, you knew when you signed him, he was maybe the most talented human being ever to play baseball. So now you've watched him have a 50, 50 season. You've watched him hit three home runs in the middle of pitching a 10 strikeout, two hitter on the same night in a postseason game, when he also hit a ball out of the stadium and sent you to the World Series. But has anything from Shohei's two seasons as a Dodger surprised even you?
- [39:03]
Stan Kasten
On the personal side, I have to say an immediate yes. Because once we got through that first game in Korea, when the news broke about what we later learned was a swindle by his interpreter. Once we got through that and the interpreter was no longer the wall separating Shohei from everyone else, we learned Shohei is such a terrific guy. Once we could communicate with him directly, we learned how much fun he was in the clubhouse, how good he was with his teammates, how much he cares. We didn't know any of those things because we were told, he doesn't want to do this, he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want to do this. Really limited his media appearances. That wasn't ever Shohei. That was always the interpreter. And once that came down, we learned so much more about him. That was really, really great. And the other thing I will say on the field, which is extraordinary and you've heard me say it before, I'll say it again. We know what the body of a 50 home run hitter looks like. We know that. We also know what the body of a 50 stolen base player looks like. He looks like Doug Glanville. But those are not the same bodies. Those are not the same humans. And this human does that. Oh, and he also pitches. That's all I can say to sum that up.
- [40:27]
Jason Stark
Yeah, well done. All right, let's Shift gears a little bit. The day after game seven, I saw you and a lot of people from your team's front office at the airport. And I remember we talked quite a bit that day about Dave Roberts. And I want to ask you about him. He's now won three World Series. The winning percentage of his teams is 620. You know how many other managers in the history of our sport can say that? Like, if Doug was here, he'd know to say zero. No other manager has had Dave Roberts career. And yet I think he's underrated. I think he's underappreciated. It seems like the outside world thinks he's supposed to win because of all the money you spend and because he's just pushing buttons that the front office told him to push. So what would you tell people? Those people? A better manager?
- [41:18]
Stan Kasten
I would say everything good you can say about everyone here is true. By the way, I live in a town here. Jerry west didn't win executive of the year awards, which he might have every year, because people said, oh, they're so good, they should win. Well, it's not easy, okay? And so whatever compliments come Doc's way for the results, which is all that matters, he deserves, he's earned. But the contributions of the front office, they deserve them, too. The contributions of the minor league player development people, they deserve them, too. I guess you could win on a fluke one year if everything falls into place. But to be this good, to contend every year, year out, is a tremendous. A testament to Dave. But it is also a testament to everyone else along the chain in producing the results that we have produced.
- [42:18]
Jason Stark
Stan, I found myself thinking about you last night. I'm not sure why. Maybe because we were going to talk today, right? And I think I realized something. We call Reggie Jackson Mr. October, but the real Mr. October is you. You were the president of the braves in the 90s when they were going to the postseason every freaking year. Now you've been the president of the Dodgers since it's what, 2012? Is that right?
- [42:44]
Stan Kasten
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Jason Stark
Yeah.
- [42:45]
Doug Glanville
So.
- [42:45]
Jason Stark
And how many times have the Dodgers missed the postseason since you got there?
- [42:49]
Stan Kasten
Well, never, but you know, who's counting? That first year was a. Was a partial year. Every other year we went. Yeah, 13.
- [42:56]
Jason Stark
Okay. All right. So that means you've now been the president of a team that's made the playoffs in 25 of the last 30 something seasons. So who's been to the postseason more than you, Stan? Yogi Berra, Miller Huggins, Casey Stengel? I can't think of anybody. Have you thought about that?
- [43:18]
Stan Kasten
I think about. I also think about my 18 NBA postseason. So, yeah, I'm. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Why am I still doing this? I. I will tell you. Some people said to me, there's one guy on our staff, really smart guy, younger guy, who's living through the pain, the agony of these postseason games, and they are agonizing. They really are. My wife starts feeling pains in early September because we're getting close to the field in October. So the young guy who. This might be his 10th, I guess, since he's been here with us, and he says, hey, I'm not sticking around, you're nuts. You've been at this 40 years. How on earth could you endure this? And I don't know the answer to that. It's true. October is agonizing. Thank you for the compliment, by the way. I think based on this year's last game, we should also throw November in there because that's when we won in every case. I've been blessed with great, great ownership that allowed us to do the things we need to do to win. I think we know the things we need to do. It starts and ends with hire good people, let them do their job. I say that all the time. It sounds so obvious. It's not as obvious to a lot of folks. Right. But that's always been my belief system. We've always had great people in the spots that we needed. That was true in Atlanta. It's certainly true here.
- [44:49]
Jason Stark
You know, this leads me into a question that Doug really wanted to ask you. Maybe you did just answer it. But what's the secret to success? What's the common thread running through all the success that you've experienced? And it doesn't even have to just be a sports thing. You know what I mean? Because success is something that all of.
- [45:10]
Stan Kasten
Us strive for in baseball. And I've said this for 30 years since, since I first took over the Braves. You have to have a long term plan and commit to it, and that's the only way you will have sustained long term success. People can luck into one good year at a time, but for sustained success, you need a long term plan and you need an ownership committed to it. I'll give you an example. And Atlanta and LA are completely opposite in this respect. In Atlanta, when Ted asked me to take over the Braves in addition to the hawks, I spent 30 days looking around. I went back to him with my conclusions. He said, you know, I said, ted, we need to focus on player Development, which we have none of now. And you stop signing free agents because that's taking us farther away from our goal, given what we have to give up back then for free agents. And I'm halfway through this to stop. I don't need a lecture, okay? Just do it. And I bring that up because a lot of owners will say, and you see it all the time, will say, yeah, just do it and commit to a long term plan. And then people lose two games in a row and people get fired. You know, that happens a lot. But Ted was, first of all believed in it. I tell people he was a very impatient guy when he wanted an answer to a question, but when the answer itself required patience to execute, he was the most patient guy in the world and he gave us the time. And I tell people that was the key to everything. When he said, stan, just go do it, he meant it. He understood. And I told him, the next four years, I'm going to be the village idiot on the talk shows. He didn't care. That didn't bother him. So we built from the ground up. We built through our farm system till we got a stable major league team, and then we used all the other resources, trades and free agency. Contrast that with la. My philosophy was still the same, but here we had to dive in right away. I didn't have four or five years because here we had a fan base that was so dedicated and had supported this team for 60 years that they deserved a team now and in the future. And we committed to that because this was a market that could sustain doing both things at the same time. And I have always admitted most markets aren't like that. But the LA market did do that. And we bet on our fans that if we do things right, try to do things right, they will support us with buying tickets and Cokes and hot dogs and merch, and that will enable us to continue to build. So again, whether it's building from ground zero and before I got to the Braves, when I took over the Braves, we had the highest payroll in baseball. And we're a last place team, which is hard to do if you're trying to do it on purpose, okay? And we had under a million attendance three years in a row. And when we finally got it put together, we went on a run of 12 years in a row at 3 million. So it can happen, but it took time. Here we were able to do both things at once because the market was that strong.
- [48:31]
Jason Stark
And as a leader, how important is it to understand the art of delegating you know, you've worked with two of the greatest general managers in sports, John Schuerholz in Atlanta. And Andrew Friedman is a. He's a legend.
- [48:47]
Stan Kasten
And don't forget Mike Rizzo, who also won a World Series with the front office we put together there.
- [48:53]
Jason Stark
Right. So when you have people that capable in that job, are you good at delegating and just getting out of the way?
- [49:02]
Stan Kasten
I wasn't for the first half of my career when I was both a GM and a team president and had to do business stuff. Back in the day, that's what a general manager meant. Like a regular company, you ran everything. And so I was very much a micromanager. Once I took over a second team, it was clear I was going to have to learn how to do things differently. And then soon it was a third team. Right. So, yeah, the second half of my career has been all about delegating, setting the mission, making sure everyone understands the mission, making sure you have the right people in the right boxes on your org chart, making sure those people have the tools they need to do their job. And if you have the right people and if you've given them the appropriate tools, which means money. Yeah. But it also means direction, support, and time to execute, then if you've hired good people, you let them do their job and things work out.
- [49:59]
Jason Stark
How similar are John and Andrew?
- [50:01]
Stan Kasten
Not very. Not very. John, you know, came up through the ranks as a farm director and scouting director, and he was very much old school, but everyone was different back then. You know, everyone. Andrew came out of the finance world, was analytical, but yet loved the game as much as any old timer loved the game. So he's really able to merge both disciplines, old time stuff and new time stuff. And he and I have a similar outlook, which is what caused us to work so well together. We think you need healthy amounts of both. You can't do it just doing one way. You've got to use tools. You need scouts and you need analytics to back up your decision making. And I could go on and on on this subject and I have when we would have more time, but you need both. I think we really fixate on excelling not in one area or the other. We work very hard on both. Everyone attributes our success to our analytics emphasis, which is partially true, but we have an army of scouts that we treat really well and rely on a great deal.
- [51:21]
Jason Stark
Yeah, I know, and I'm into that. All right, one last thing. How different do you think the Dodgers are going to look in 2026? From the team that just won the World Series.
- [51:31]
Stan Kasten
Well, I think we have a lot of similarities. First of all, because of the contracts we have, we don't have any real big holes. I mean. I mean, a week ago, we won the World Series, so I can't identify a lot of holes yet. But we are always opportunistic. Since I have been here with Mark, and especially since Andrew came, we have been opportunistic. I can't tell you anything for sure except this. The team that you see us have on paper after the winter meetings is not the team that we will line up next October. It will be different. Things will happen. We'll make trades in spring training. We'll make trades in May, June, July. We will have injuries, and young kids will surprise us. Others will fall backwards. So I'm always amused when someone says a team won the winter because nothing could be less important. Winning the winter doesn't achieve anything except headlines. Headlines are good. We like publicity, and we like fans getting excited. But the team you have in the winter is not the team you go to war with on the 1st of October or whenever. So please remember that.
- [52:45]
Jason Stark
Yeah. And when you attack this, is money ever an object? For the Los Angeles Dodgers in recent years?
- [52:52]
Stan Kasten
It hasn't been because we're so close. And when we are this close, we decide to go for it. When you have fans that are supporting us, you know, to the tune of what we ask out of them, then we have to reciprocate by working as hard as we can. And so we have been call it extravagant in our payroll, not. Not at the top, necessarily, but when we see an opportunity, we seize it, because they don't come around all that often. But, you know, I think if the day comes that we have different rules, I still think we'll be competitive. I still think we'll contend every year. That's our responsibility, because we're the Dodgers. And I think along with that comes that responsibility to contend every year.
- [53:38]
Jason Stark
Baseball needs you to ruin baseball. That's how I look at it.
- [53:42]
Stan Kasten
As long as your definition of ruining baseball is my definition of helping baseball. And I'll agree with you exactly.
- [53:50]
Jason Stark
Stan. We could talk to you about this stuff all day long, but you got to run. We got to run. It's really been cool to have you visit us here. I hope it's not the last time. If you come back again, you can tell Andrew I'd been to Starkville more than you.
- [54:07]
Stan Kasten
Hey, wow. That's some incentive. So I'm ready, big guy. Just you have my number?
- [54:13]
Jason Stark
I do. Stan, thank you so much. All the best.
- [54:16]
Stan Kasten
My pleasure guys. Thank you.
- [54:21]
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- [56:23]
Jason Stark
Hey, Doug is back and we're always happy to have him back. So Doug, have we ever mentioned that we have a hotline? I feel like we have, but just in case I'm hallucinating that people should know we have a hotline. You call the number 267-227-9867 and you ask us a fun baseball question or a trivia question or whatever it may be. And then we pick out some of those calls and we answer them right here on this show. Is that fun or what? Doug?
- [56:55]
Doug Glanville
Well, you know, I think a hotline is way better than a cold line, so I'm going to Go for the hotline. Yes. Yeah.
- [57:00]
Jason Stark
Proven. Yeah. So we got two calls on the hotline in the past week about the World Series and we thought, you know, the time, just given the timing, we should answer these. Remember now, on future shows, this could be you because we love including you guys on Starkville. So first call is from Roger in North Carolina and he's been thinking about that 18 inning game in the World Series, game three. So let's hear what's on his mind.
- [57:28]
Listener Caller
Hi, this is Roger Townley from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. I'm a regular listener and I absolutely love your show every week. Thank you so much for your insight. Thank you so much for your dedication, your passion and for having such wonderful guests. I've got a question. It relates to game three of the World Series just ended. I'm a Dodger fan, so this is not sour grapes. In fact, my grandsons are Blue Jay fans, my son in law is a Blue Jay fan. So no sour grapes here. But nobody's talked about the bat of Nathan Lucas against Clayton Kershaw. Nobody's talked about that at that. And that was the top of the 12th and Nathan Lucas swung at three balls outside the strike zone thrown by Clayton Kershaw and that led to him weakly hitting a ball that got the third out. And had he not swung at those balls out of the strike zone, I have to think that the Jays would have scored a run there because the bases were loaded and the Jays might have won the game had the Dodgers not been able to score in the bottom of the 12th. Just a little insight there on my part. I just wondered about your reaction to that or lack of reaction. Thank you much. Love your show.
- [58:41]
Jason Stark
Bye, Roger. Thank you. Good way to get your call on the show is to tell us how much you love the show. Just a little tip for you. So Doug, just to refresh people's memories, this was the only batter Clayton Kershaw pitched to in the entire World Series. It was the last game of his career and all the focus has been on that. Roger brings up another really interesting aspect to this. So Clayton comes in. This is the only time he's ever done this. Bases loaded in the 12 inning, two outs. So just that part of it alone was wild. Before we even get to the part Roger is asking about, which is how it all unfolded, so I went back and re watched that at bat a couple of times and it was not as if Nathan Lucas went up there hell bent on flailing at everything. In fact, he did not swing at any of the first Five pitches. So the count gets to three and two before he swings once. Okay. Then he did chase three pitches in a row that were probably balls. The first one was a slider. It was down, but it was close. It stayed in the zone a long time before it dipped. So he fouled that one down the left field line. Next pitch was a fastball. It was up just above the letters. He fouled that one back. And then the last pitch was another slider below the zone. But it's another one of those pitches. It starts at the knees before it dips. So he bounces that one to second base. If you remember, Doug, Tommy Edmond has to do the little shovel with the glove flip just to get him at first by a step. End the inning and the threat. Yeah, I mean, big play, big moment. So I'm going to defer to you in this, Doug. You came to the plate with the bases loaded 93 times in your career. Look that up. So you've been there, you've done this. Take us through Nathan Lucas thinking in such a huge spot, extra innings of a tied World Series game.
- [60:49]
Doug Glanville
In large part, I gave a lot of credit to Kershaw, you know, and, you know, I remember talking to Blake Snell sometime in the NLCS and how he gained so much from watching Kershaw, because, of course, he didn't have the stuff he had when he first started or in the peak of his career.
- [61:09]
Jason Stark
Clayton didn't.
- [61:09]
Doug Glanville
Yes, but yet he still felt, you know, he had this belief that he gave off that I'm throwing 105 miles an hour and I'm hitting corners, and I have whatever I have in my body, it's enough, and I'm going to compete. And that sort of plays sometimes when you're facing somebody that this guy's not going to give in. He's still going to make his pitches, you know, and he's got to still know that you might expand your zone a little bit to do what I need you to do as a pitcher to get you out. And that's exactly what Kershaw was able to do. And even though that got the 3:2, you know, you got that feeling of 3:2. Like, on one hand, I'm really aggressive because I kind of got him. But this is Clayton Kershaw, who's also not giving in. Like, three two against Kershaw or three two against Greg Maddux or three two against Tom Glavin. That is not the same as a rookie, throwing as hard as possible, like, going to lay it down in the Middle, you still have to work, and the lines get really blurry after a bunch of close pitches. So, you know, it's a tough one. Like, yeah, you take a pitch, it's lefty on lefty. He's got the slider working. I think it's really hard to lay off all those pitches. Right. And especially unless you're just like Juan Soto. Right. You have such an exceptional sense of the strike zone. Most of us do not. It's sort of like, all right, so I give Kershaw a lot of credit. He's not throwing hard, but he blurred the line between ball and strike enough to get Lucas to do more than he probably wanted to do, but he couldn't stop him himself. Yeah.
- [62:42]
Jason Stark
Space is loaded in a tight game of a world. In the World Series. Extra innings. Like, he can't stand there and get called out. He can't. And this is coming from Doug Glanville. Roger, you should know, I looked this up. Glanville only walked with the bases loaded six times in his whole big league career.
- [63:02]
Doug Glanville
That's right.
- [63:04]
Jason Stark
He was hacking.
- [63:05]
Doug Glanville
That's right.
- [63:06]
Jason Stark
So is Nathan Lucas. That pretty much characterizes you, Doug.
- [63:10]
Doug Glanville
Absolutely. I appreciate that. Well, it's like, I got you. But then there's certain pitchers you really don't have. This is loaded. You think you do.
- [63:20]
Jason Stark
Right. So bottom line is, Roger, you're right. I think if he takes any of those pitches, the Blue Jays score, they probably win the World Series. You never know what the umpire is going to call. We don't have ABS yet. Right. But good stuff. Great call. Glad you stayed awake for that at bat.
- [63:38]
Doug Glanville
Right.
- [63:38]
Jason Stark
All right, let's now hear our second call from our second listener. This is from one of our very, very loyal listeners, Doug. Phil from Encinitas in California. And we hear from Phil very regularly. He has a good one here. Not on game three.
- [63:59]
Listener Caller
On game seven, this is Phil Bolsta in Encinitas, California. I'd like to hear your take on the impact that coaches had and should have had in Game 7. I understand why Toronto took a conservative approach to IKF's lead off third base, but isn't it the third base coach's responsibility to remind the runner to run through home plate instead of sliding on a force plate? Then in the 11th inning, why didn't John Schneider signal to the first base coach to have Addison Barger steal second to get out of a double play situation? Will Smith wasn't going to risk throwing down to second with Guerrero on third. Shouldn't someone have thought of that? Finally. If only Dave Roberts hadn't passed up the chance to make Jason's ultimate dream come true by calling for the strangest and truest thing ever. Having Shohei Ohtani take the mound for the ninth inning, I'm pretty sure Doug could guess how many times a pitcher was both the starter and the closer in the same game. That could have happened.
- [65:06]
Jason Stark
Good one, Phil. I think he wants you to say zero, Doug.
- [65:08]
Doug Glanville
Oh, that's a big zero. We gotta be. Although we did in high school quite a bit. I relieved myself one time, and if game started in, I didn't close, though. We just gave up more runs when I got taken out. So they put me back in. So that wasn't great.
- [65:23]
Jason Stark
Yeah, this was a little different.
- [65:24]
Doug Glanville
A little different.
- [65:25]
Jason Stark
All right, so let's take these one at a time. Doug, I'm mostly going to defer to you on this. The first question is one I actually wanted to ask you about last week. We never got to it. This has to do with Isaiah Kiner Falefa. Should he have slid into the plate with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth trying to score the winning run on the ball hit back to Miguel Rojas. Isn't that faster, since it's a force play to run all the way home and not slow yourself up by sliding into the plate?
- [65:59]
Doug Glanville
Yeah, I mean, we don't see a lot of track athletes go through the tape feet first, although they measure at the chest level, so. So, yeah, I mean, and there's been many of breaks, downs about, would he have made it? And it doesn't seem like even the math, he would have actually still been safe from the standpoint of going through it. But yeah, I understand. Like, that's not your thought, but it would be a reminder, right, to be like, look, it's a force at home. Go in. But, like, you know, I know we're all traumatized by, you know, Jeremy Giambi and Jeter flip and all that. Right. Because sometimes when you go and see standing up and then, you know, you might give him something to tag. If, like, let's say that throw is up the third baseline because you don't know where it's going to go. You're watching, but you have to do your job of getting home. And then all of a sudden, like, you give him a shoulder or something that he can tag, that's easier because. Because of the throw, you know, I don't know you're trying to read that. But yes, you know, as a track star, you run through and it seems like, it may not have been enough anyway. But I know that's bang, bang, lightning quick decision making. And just like the reminder about, what was it during the nlcs, Dodgers, brewers, when Tasker Hernandez kind of forgot that you can tag up as soon as the ball hits the glove and not, you know, he doesn't have to possess it, so to speak. Like, he went back and that cost him actually a double play in that crazy play. So he might have been reminded, you may not remember. So. So I know my instincts. I probably would have, you know, I would have thought, oh, let me slide here, go, you know, head first or something crazy.
- [67:41]
Jason Stark
Yeah, it's instinct. And look, the catcher's standing there with his shin guards and his chest protector and he's pretty imposing. It's not like the first baseman stretching. It's not like the second baseman taking the throw on a double play. Instinct tells you slide. I don't think this is actually coached much to run through the plate. And it's interesting because the question that Phil asked was about coaching. His next question, interesting. Should Addison Barger have stolen second to take the Jays out of the double play in the 11th? Now, this guy's not a base stealer. Only four stolen bases in the big leagues this whole season. But this was an opportunity to take one that keeps them out of the double play. There's the fear of getting thrown out and making the second out. Doug, what do you think?
- [68:34]
Doug Glanville
That's the fear, Right? It's like Connor Falafel, like, how far should he have taken his lead? Right. Well, yeah, you make the calculation about, well, I go this far and I could have made it if I was five feet closer. But then you're always worried about the back pick or some trick play or something, double play, line drive kind of thing. So you try to. You make all those calculations in advance and then you kind of commit to it because you don't want to be caught in between. That's where you really make mistakes. And with Barger, you know, okay, there's. You're holding me on the base. The hole is open on that side of the field. Give somebody a shot to, like knock it through. You know, those things. Depends on who's up behind you. You know, someone like Trey Turner, with the Phillies for a while when he was hitting in front of Bryce Harper, even Schwerber, it was like he didn't run as much because he's like, well, I want to keep the hole open. And these guys are going to. And all of a sudden, you know, his base stealing and then his hamstring and all that. But it definitely changes your calculation on who's up as well. Also just not trying to make that out. So I'm sure there's some factors in it, but the double play is. Is a big element of making that decision, especially if you have someone who's grounded to a lot of double plays behind you. But you're also weighing these other factors of, like, hey, we got this guy at third. That could win the ball game, too, right?
- [69:53]
Jason Stark
Now, if he stills there, say, first pitch, then the Dodgers probably intentionally walk Alejandro Kirk, right? So then the double plays back in order, and you don't have a hitter up there who's as good as Alejandro Kirk. So all this stuff comes into play. All right, one final question. Remember this one? Why didn't Dave Roberts take the opportunity to have Shohei start the game and close the game? He said the ninth inning. I know he met the 11th. So Shohei, he would have pitched the first, second, one out into the third, and then come back in the 11th inning. I'm going to take this. Obviously, the strange but true portions of our brains would have loved this, okay? But I've talked to Dave Roberts a lot about how he handles Ohtani. There was no way he was doing this. Do the math. It had been eight innings since Shohei had thrown a pitch in that game. Three hours. So there's no way Dave Roberts lets him start this game on short rest, remember? And what did he tell him? Let it eat. Give us what you got. Okay, so he starts the game on short rest, and now he's going to come back three hours later. For what reason? So he can make it into the strange but true feats of all time and close the World Series.
- [71:15]
Doug Glanville
That's a good reason.
- [71:16]
Jason Stark
It's a good one. But there's a bigger picture here. I think they owe this dude $70 million a year, 700 million total. He's kind of important to them. So it's easy for us to say, hey, just bring back Shohei. Let him get that last out. But, Doug, was that a good idea? Really?
- [71:37]
Doug Glanville
Well, here's the other problem.
- [71:38]
Jason Stark
The rules.
- [71:39]
Doug Glanville
Okay, he's closing a game that he's not closing necessarily. Like, okay, when they were tying, closing.
- [71:47]
Jason Stark
A game, he's not closing.
- [71:48]
Doug Glanville
Right, Right. If they have the lead, he's closing. But if they don't have the lead.
- [71:52]
Jason Stark
It'S the 11th inning. I think that's what he meant. Why didn't he come back to pitch the 11th inning?
- [71:58]
Doug Glanville
But game seven. All right, so when they had the lead, when did they have the lead? An extra inning.
- [72:03]
Jason Stark
Will Smith homer's in the top of the 11.
- [72:05]
Doug Glanville
Right. And then what happened in the bottom?
- [72:07]
Jason Stark
In the bottom is the Kirk double play to end the game.
- [72:11]
Doug Glanville
Yes. Right. So bring him. Yeah, so you bring him in to close himself out.
- [72:16]
Jason Stark
Remember, Vlad gets on. Okay. Runner on third. Okay, There you go.
- [72:19]
Doug Glanville
All right, so, okay, so now here's the problem. All right? If he goes in to close and he gives it up, okay? Forget about, like, blowing his arm out, all that stuff. He closes the game and he gives it up, and now he's a reliever, then the whole DH thing implodes, right? Because you relieved yourself, then you'd have to go. You'd lose the dh, because that's why he didn't.
- [72:39]
Jason Stark
He'd have to go in the field.
- [72:40]
Doug Glanville
Yeah, he'd have to go in the field or he's out of the game. And if they tie it and they go another 18 innings, you have no Shohei Ohtani. So that's a risk. Or you have to put him in right field or third or wherever. He's never played the whole season long. It's sort of the question around, why didn't Roberts. I felt strongly that they had to start Ohtani as a pitcher because you can't bring him in the fifth or the sixth without having to put him in the field. The rules are different about the Ohtani rule. If he's starting the game versus if he's a reliever, the reliever wipes that out. So once he comes to close, he's able to lever. And then if they tie the game, they have to find a place for Ohtani or he's out of the lineup. So that's another problem, another risk, let alone, like, his arm and everything else. Although we would have loved it. We absolutely would have loved it to him to start and close himself and I don't know, does he get the win on the save? I guess he gets both, right? I don't know.
- [73:33]
Jason Stark
He would have gotten the save. He wouldn't have got the win.
- [73:35]
Doug Glanville
Well, he went on the win.
- [73:36]
Jason Stark
They weren't winning when he left the game in the third inning.
- [73:40]
Doug Glanville
We get the hold. I don't know. He should get a lot of stats for that.
- [73:45]
Jason Stark
What account is one game pitched or two? That's true.
- [73:48]
Doug Glanville
I don't.
- [73:49]
Jason Stark
I don't care. It's not gonna happen. Okay, look, we gotta move on. But Roger, Phil, great calls this week. Loved him. Everyone out there keep the calls Coming to the hotline.
- [74:01]
Doug Glanville
Well, I have one quick note for Roger. My mom is from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, so I just want to throw that out there. Born and raised. Well, she was really in. I think it was Oak City, and then moved to Rocky Mountain. So many years at the roses. Right? Roses. You know what I'm talking about. And the great barbecue. So we are very familiar with Rocky Mountain.
- [74:22]
Jason Stark
Okay, so if you're from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, call our hotline and Doug will shout you out. But even if you're not, call our hotline. We would love to hear from you. Hey, it's the off season, so we have no choice but to put our strange but true segment on ice until we have some actual games starting up again. So that's the bad news. Are you ready for the good news? In the off season, we get the pleasure of wandering into a little place we like to call the dugout. Get it? The Dugout. That's where we find our friend Doug Glanville spinning his special little tales about his life and times. So what better way to kick off this offseason than to have Doug tell us a story about what he did one off season after his team got booted out of the postseason. About as painfully as it's possible to get booted, Doug. You can tell people all about it. The floor is yours.
- [75:30]
Doug Glanville
Yeah, I mean, this is. Takes me back to 2003, game seven. We lost to the Marlins at Wrigley Field. And I was pretty much immobilized. I couldn't really move off my couch after about 24 hours because I realized, like, I've been exhausted for, like, four straight months because we were sitting on every pitch. First we had to get in the playoff. So it was a pretty tiring time. Eventually, I go back to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area, and I got a call from my professor Vukan R. V, who is a legend in urban transportation planning. For all of you who don't know that, I'm shocked. And he invites me on a trip to South Africa. And I'm like, I just got home. Like, what? You know, we just played a whole season. And he's like, no, we're leaving in two weeks, and I need to know by tomorrow, you know? So I'm like, to go to South Africa. So I'm like, I don't know. So I kind of say, well, what am I going to do? He's like, well, I need you to be my ta and you're going to TA and support my class, and, you know, I'm going to Teach this seminar to all these students at the University of Stellenbosch, which is wine country. And we're going to talk about transportation engineering with respect to the planning in all these major cities in South Africa, particularly Cape Town. I'm like, okay, that sounds cool. So eventually, I just agree, let's do it. So I get whatever I need. My visa, passport. I'm rushing around, and I literally fly to South Africa and meet my professor. I'm completely delirious, totally exhausted. And it just was a cool trip because I learned about so much more about Nelson Mandela. And I go to Robben island, where he was imprisoned all those decades. And just the history, just watching this society morph from apartheid rule to Nelson Mandela and a whole new sort of world that opens up. And within that, I get to meet all these students that are engineers, that are interested in transportation. And so from that experience, not only just meeting the students, I captured a couple of great things. One is Rooibos tea. For those of you who don't know redbush tea, Rooibos is phenomenal. Doesn't have an aftertaste. It's herbal. It has no caffeine. And I learned that during class time, they had tea breaks, and it was mandatory. We tried to go over one time, and it was like a mutiny. So we're like, okay, whoa, whoa. They are serious about their tea breaks. So you got to take a tea break, and then you talk to all. So I think we need a tea break. And Starkville, I'm going to implement this at some point. I think it'd be awesome for us to do this, and I'll have tea here in the future. But I learned a lot about this experience, about having a class, and then the students and teachers and professors get together and just talk. And I think what was so amazing is you're talking about post apartheid, only like a decade, not even. And I was amazed at how all these diverse groups, groups of people got along really well. They look familiar to each other, Even though just 10 years prior, whole groups of people weren't even allowed to attend the university. I also found this amazing wine during these wine trips. So that was very cool. But really the experience of just kind of being part of this new world, at least in hopes, and just taking tours all over the place, including going to a national park, which I thankfully did not run into by foot. A rhino, the big five, as they call it. Lions, leopards, buffalo. I think I'm missing one. But, you know, that's okay. It wasn't a giraffe I found out I thought the giraffe should be in the Big Five because they're so tall, but whatever. But that being said, like, I literally did all this right after a crazy baseball season and being eliminated in game seven. And I think it was, like, the best thing I could have done. You know, it's just something about resetting. You hear about R.A. dickey climbing, like, Kilimanjaro or whatever, and, you know, Giancarlo Stanton, you know, traveling the world and player. You just get a different perspective. And that was great for me. I think it was just nice to get back, you know, engineering, because my career was kind of ending. I might need a job. And, you know, I was just, you know, reconnected to some of the disciplines I really loved about college and at the same time, open up this whole world of culture. So it was fun being there, talking about baseball and people going, what? What are you talking about? What sport is that? And. But at the same time, it was an exchange of ideas, and I think it really opened up my mind on so many things.
- [80:10]
Jason Stark
Sounds like a very powerful experience. I was just going to ask you, outside of the fact that you were talking baseball, because people were asking about baseball, here's a question that people always ask me when I take these trips. Do you even think about baseball when you're traveling on trips like this? If people don't bring it up, because I do.
- [80:32]
Doug Glanville
I definitely did for a little while. But I feel like as time went on and they're just sort of talking about rugby, I remember the rugby. I guess the international tournament was about to. It was, I guess, the Cup, World Cup, I think it was hosted in South Africa either later that year. So there was a lot more, certainly not baseball, on their mind. But I didn't know what the conversation was going to be. So that was what was fun. Like, oh, do they know about this sport? And if not, how do I explain it? I thought that was fun, you know, I thought that was. I felt like I was spreading the word, you know, And I remember one time I sat down, I went to, like, a flea market kind of, and there was outdoor seating. There was no seats available, and there was a woman sitting, and I just sat with her. I said, do you mind if I sit here? And she was like, sure. And I ended up being, like, pen pals and emailing and just learning all this stuff about South Africa, you know. So I think that the exchange was what baseball could bring. And I think it just started conversations about, tell me about rugby. But I still thought about it from time to time, but then I kind of wanted to not think about it because game seven was horrible.
- [81:38]
Jason Stark
Yeah. So good. I love these Glanville stories so much. I don't think I've ever even heard this one, which is unusual. It makes it even extra special. So a great story. Doug and I cannot wait until our next trip to the Dugout right here in Starkville. Okay, that's gonna do it for this week's show. But even though we'll now be off for a week or two, you can still send us your trivia questions@starkville theathletic.com and you can call our Starkville hotline with your fun baseball questions, 267-227-9867. And as you've seen, we are using more more of these calls right here on this very show. But for now, Doug, thanks for playing. Thanks to Stan Kasten for visiting us. Thanks to the mayor of Starkville, Bryant Smith, for producing us and putting up with us. Thank you for listening, Doug and I will see you soon on Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero.
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