Starkville | Former GM's Ned Colletti & Steve Phillips preview the upcoming Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series

Summary

Summary: The Windup – Starkville | Former GMs Ned Colletti & Steve Phillips Preview the Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series

Podcast: The Windup: A Show about Baseball – Starkville
Episode Title: Former GMs Ned Colletti & Steve Phillips Preview the Upcoming Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series
Date: October 22, 2025
Hosts: Jayson Stark & Doug Glanville
Guests: Ned Colletti (Former Dodgers GM), Steve Phillips (Former Mets GM)

---

Episode Overview

This World Series preview episode features insightful analysis from hosts Jayson Stark and Doug Glanville—joined by former MLB general managers Ned Colletti and Steve Phillips—on the upcoming Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series. They break down each team’s strengths, reflect on Shohei Ohtani’s historic NLCS performance, examine roster-building conundrums, discuss George Springer's epic ALCS homer, the unique pressure of postseason baseball, and broader questions of competitive balance in Major League Baseball.

---

Main Themes and Key Discussion Points

1. Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series Matchup (Starts [02:13])

• Star Power Abounds: Stark frames the showdown as “the Death Star Dodgers against Canada’s team” ([03:18]).

• Blue Jays’ Threat: Despite the Dodgers' dominance, both hosts agree the Blue Jays possess the depth, offensive aggression, and mix-and-match ability to make the series competitive. Glanville emphasizes their pressure baseball style and the resurgence of George Springer and Vlad Guerrero Jr.

  “They put the ball in play… very aggressive… there’s a little Brewers to them, right? First to third, pressure baseball. But then you have guys like George Springer just playing like he’s 23… they're really good at [the] mix and match…”
  — Doug Glanville ([03:47])

• Dodgers’ Dominance But Not Invincible: Stark and Colletti note the Dodgers’ relentless lineup discipline but also highlight that consistent challenges in the postseason have been lacking, which may leave them vulnerable to Toronto’s relentless attack.

---

2. The Shohei Ohtani Game: Greatest Performance in Baseball History? ([05:01])

• Recap of Historic NLCS Game:
  Ohtani hit three home runs (including one out of the stadium), threw six-plus shutout innings with 10 strikeouts in a clinching game. Stark argues no player has ever achieved this collection of feats on such a stage.

• Widespread Awe: All four panelists marvel at Ohtani’s performance.

  “He hit three home runs. One of them left the stadium. Right? Ten strikeout, no run, two-hitter… And oh, by the way, his team is going to the World Series.”
  — Jayson Stark ([07:14])

• Science Fiction, Not Reality:
  Glanville frames the feat as “science fiction”:

  “You say based on a true story… The finale is going to be this dude who goes 6 for 6, hits 3 home runs, steals 2 bases… So that is Shohei Ohtani every single time… I think you have something to say because this probably is the greatest game ever played by one person.”
  — Doug Glanville ([10:08])

• General Manager Perspective:

  • Colletti: “Not even Babe Ruth did it like this… for the moment in time, I don’t know how you get better than that.” ([14:56])
  • Phillips: “Not even Babe Ruth did this with the consistency level that we’re talking about… He can do anything he wants on a field.” ([15:27]; [17:24])

---

3. Ohtani, Two-Way Player: Organizational Challenges & Valuation ([19:46])

• Roster Construction Issues:
  Phillips discusses how Ohtani’s unique schedule (pitching once a week) demands creativity in roster building, and how he essentially “runs the show” due to his value ([20:09]).

• Financial and Cultural Value:
  Colletti and Phillips both agree the Dodgers’ investment in Ohtani might be underpaying him, once marketing and international impact are factored in.

  “They probably had this in mind a year before they signed him… the financial end of this has been a great boom for Shohei, probably even better for the LA Dodgers… he has exceeded expectation.”
  — Ned Colletti ([24:16]) “He’s underpaid… The Dodgers… This was a great financial decision.”
  — Steve Phillips ([25:55])

---

4. ALCS Game 7: George Springer's Homer and Mariners’ Decisions ([26:30])

• Springer’s Heroic Home Run Comparison:
  Phillips sees it as a hybrid of Kirk Gibson and Joe Carter moments, citing the “elimination game, game seven home run,” and emotional gravitas.

  “He is the heart and soul of that team… 23 career postseason home runs, nine go-ahead…”
  — Steve Phillips ([26:53])

• Managerial Second-Guessing:
  Glanville, Ned, and Steve debate the Mariners’ pitching choices (removing Kirby, using Bizardo vs. Munoz, etc.), agreeing Munoz should’ve faced the heart of the order.

  “Once Wu walked Barger … Munoz, for me, when it gets to Springer and the top of the lineup right there, it’s got to be Munoz … not Pizzardo.”
  — Steve Phillips ([30:21])

---

5. The Pain of Losing With Everything on the Line ([32:05])

• Emotional Fallout:
  Colletti and Phillips describe the unique agony of postseason defeat, focusing on the abruptness and “physical pain” of elimination.

  “You remember that more than you remember the victory because it’s such a hollow feeling… It is a painful situation… I remember the defeats far more than the victories, 100%.”
  — Ned Colletti ([32:46]) “There is nothing enjoyable about it... It’s miserable… It’s physical pain.”
  — Steve Phillips ([35:37])

---

6. World Series X-Factors: Layoff, Bullpen Usage, “Ruining Baseball” Narratives ([36:06])

• Layoff vs. Battle-Tested Team:
  Phillips notes that, historically, the team with the longer series before the World Series often wins, suggesting Toronto shouldn’t be underestimated.

  “In all four of those series the team that went seven games… won the World Series. That layoff has been a factor.”
  — Steve Phillips ([37:04])

• Bullpen as Wild Card:
  Glanville is curious how the Dodgers’ lightly-used bullpen will perform when tested by the Jays’ approach ([38:47]).

• “Ruining Baseball” with Dodgers' Spending:
  Roberts’ tongue-in-cheek comment (“Let’s get four more wins and really ruin baseball”) prompts discussion about payroll disparity.

  “If the Dodgers win another World Series, are people just going to conclude that they ruined baseball?”
  — Jayson Stark ([39:58]) “It creates an unfair balance… I hope they don’t win because I don’t want that to be the narrative as we go into a negotiation. I think it’s a lose-lose for everybody…”
  — Steve Phillips ([40:23])

---

7. International Star Power, Keeping Up With the Dodgers, & “Super Team” Dynamics ([46:03])

• Blue Jays’ Pursuit of Japanese Stars:
  Phillips compares Dodgers to the NBA’s super teams:

  “They built the dream team there... It’s not just the money, it’s also the ability to win and the star players that are there.”
  — Steve Phillips ([46:03])

---

8. Vladimir Guerrero Jr’s “Lifetime” Contract and Responsibilities ([47:53])

• Emergence as a True Leader:
  The panel celebrates Guerrero’s transformation from a talented but unpolished prospect to a Gold Glove first baseman and team anchor.

  “The transformation in Vladdy… the way he has stepped up to be a true leader is something that I don’t know that I saw coming.”
  — Jayson Stark ([47:53]) “He has become what they hoped he would be.”
  — Ned Colletti ([50:15])

  Phillips details Vlad’s increased maturity, leadership, and commitment:

  “The level of growth and maturity… is really unparalleled… He makes a play and worries about the next play, and he celebrates everybody else. He plays the—he’s a winner. If I’m going to give $500 million to somebody, I want to give it to a winner.”
  — Steve Phillips ([51:08])

---

9. Memorable Trade Between Guests ([53:00])

The group reminisces about a 2001 trade (Sean Estes for Tsuyoshi Shinjo and Desi Relaford):

“Shinjo was the coolest dude I’ve ever seen in a major league uniform… but after the trade, he said it was his life’s mission to slay the Mets.”
— Steve Phillips ([53:48])

---

10. Strange But True: The Two “Strikeouts by Absent Batters” ([56:00])

The episode ends with a quirky “Strange But True” postscript:

• Twice in the same postseason, a batter technically struck out while not on the field (once due to a cramping injury, once due to pinch-hitting mid-at-bat).

• Celebrated as a statistical and rules oddity:

  “The rules say the guy who rolled up those first two strikes gets the credit for the strikeout… It’s so crazy—baseball is inherently deep and meaningful.”
  — Jayson Stark & Doug Glanville ([59:16]-[63:27])

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Ohtani, Greatest Game Ever:
  "He hit three home runs… threw 100… his team is going to the World Series. No matter what game people bring up, nobody has done that."
  — Jayson Stark ([07:14])

• “Not even Babe Ruth did it like this… I don’t know how you get better than that.”
  — Ned Colletti ([14:56])

• “He’s underpaid. The Dodgers… This was a great financial decision for them.”
  — Steve Phillips ([25:55])

• “I remember the defeats far more than the victories, 100%.”
  — Ned Colletti ([32:46])

• “The level of growth and maturity [in Vlad Jr.]… is really unparalleled. If I’m going to give $500 million to somebody… it's to a winner.”
  — Steve Phillips ([51:08])

---

Conclusion

Rich with first-hand executive insights and playful banter, this episode delivers an in-depth preview of the Dodgers-Blue Jays World Series and the broader narratives shaping modern MLB. The panel lauds Ohtani’s unprecedented two-way postseason heroics, scrutinizes roster and contract strategy, and champions Vlad Guerrero Jr.’s growth. They also candidly discuss baseball’s financial landscape while reveling in the game’s unpredictable, sometimes bizarre wonders. Even the lighter “Strange But True” segment reinforces the complexity and joy that make baseball, and this show, irresistible for fans.

Transcript

[Doug Glanville]

Hey, it's Maya and Sim from the.

[Jason Stark]

Girls that Invest Podcast.

[Steve Phillips]

If you are an IT or security pro, you know managing devices, identities and.

[Ned Colletti]

Applications can feel overwhelming and honestly risky.

[Jason Stark]

That's where Trelica by1Password comes in.

[Steve Phillips]

It helps conquer SaaS brawl and shadow.

[Jason Stark]

It by discovering every app your team.

[Steve Phillips]

Uses, managed or not.

[Ned Colletti]

With pre built app profiles, you can.

[Jason Stark]

Assess risk, manage, access, and even optimize your software spend.

[Doug Glanville]

Plus, it simplifies onboarding, offboarding and compliance.

[Ned Colletti]

All while cutting costs by eliminating unused licenses.

[Steve Phillips]

Take the first step to better security for your team.

[Jason Stark]

Learn [e-mail] special offer when you're a.

[Ned Colletti]

Forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money and agents. So you can transform tomorrow Workday, moving business forever forward.

[Steve Phillips]

You open the fridge, there's nothing there.

[Jason Stark]

So what's it going to be?

[Steve Phillips]

Greasy pizza?

[Jason Stark]

Sad Drive Thru Burgers? Dish by Blue Apron is for nights like that. These are the pre made meals of your dreams. At least 20 grams of protein. No artificial flavors or colors. No chopping, no cleanup. No guilt. Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more. Greetings and welcome to Starkville Baseball hall.

[Steve Phillips]

Of Famer Jason Stark.

[Jason Stark]

And then the robot said, strike.

[Steve Phillips]

That's why you're going in the hall of Fame. It's an inside the park.

[Jason Stark]

Over on Doug Gladfell.

[Doug Glanville]

Mike Trout is coffee at Starbucks with a double latte Skinny.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, are you ready to make some podcast magic?

[Doug Glanville]

I am ready. Bring on the Magic wand. Let's do it.

[Jason Stark]

Greetings and welcome to Starkville. I'm Jason Stark. I write about baseball for the Athletic, and I am joined once again by my good friend, writer substacker, broadcaster, professor, distinguished former major leaguer and the voice of PostSeason Baseball on ESPN and ESPN Radio, Doug Glanville. Doug, Happy World Series week. How are you?

[Doug Glanville]

You know what, Pretty good. I mean, I didn't really want the sweep for baseball sake, because I think it's like fun to see the brewers like claw back a little bit. But that did not happen. The Dodgers brought out the brooms. They swept them out. There's a game of Quidditch. Yeah. Unfortunately for the brewers, it was. It was a quick exit. So. But for me, I got to get home early and just kind of regroup and it's been nice. Yeah, I've been enjoying that. Yeah, it's Been good, you know, fam. Hanging out, getting ready for the weekend as game one starts to percolate. But. So here we go.

[Jason Stark]

I know. You know, Doug, I am really stoked for this World Series. I think Dodgers, Blue Jays is such a fun matchup. We've got star power. We have the Death Star Dodgers against Canada's team. We have Shohei Ohtani finally boarding a plane to Toronto. What do you think? Are the Dodgers just destined to blitz through everybody, or do the Blue Jays have some ingredients that could make them dangerous? Because I think they do.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, they definitely do. I mean, I didn't see them at their best at the end of the season against Boston. Their offense was kind of struggling, but when you see them at their best or at least playing well, they put the ball in play. They're really good about manipulating the baseball, moving runners, very aggressive. There's a little brewers to them, right? First to third, you know, just kind of pressure baseball. But then they have, you know, guys like George Springer just playing like he's 23, and, you know, and you have a lot of pieces that match up well. You know, they're really good at that mix and match. That's something. They weren't executing very well the last couple of years, and Snyder was just sort of, as he said on our podcast, like, figuring it out. But now he's got. They've got guys off the bench that just step right in. So that makes it fun because with the, you know, if they can get to this Dodger starting rotation, which nobody has, really, but if you can, you got to put a lot of pressure on a bullpen that's, like, kind of, like, not used a lot lately. And what are their roles all of a sudden? Things could change, so. And, you know, they have enough arms, too, to make it interesting. So I'm looking forward to Vlad Guerrero Jr. Like, wow, he looks like he looks like his dad times two. Just unstoppable, right? It's a lot of fun.

[Jason Stark]

I feel like the Blue Jays have the one lineup in the sport that is deep enough and relentless enough to cause the Dodgers starters to at least work, you know, to maybe not just go seven, eight, nine innings every start. And then that brings the bullpen into play. It hasn't come into play yet, but it's hovering. It's. There it is. And we have two great guests to help us figure this out. I love talking to both these guys because of how smart they are and how they see the sport from 30,000ft, because that's what GMs and former GMs do. So. Steve Phillips and Ned Coletti are here and this will be fun. Also, we have another bizarre October strange but true segment that you do not want to miss. Hang in there for that. One more thing, Doug, before we bring in Ned and Steve. We saw something amazing last week in game four of that nlcs, our man Shohei Ohtani had a game that I wrote was the greatest game any human has ever had on a baseball field. So I'm curious whether you're with me because there are like a thousand story comments on that column at the athletic and about 995 of them are not with me. So I'm curious where you stand. Ever been a greater performance by a baseball player than that?

[Doug Glanville]

Well, I mean, you know, if you go back to Little League in those days, I mean. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of. Yeah. But if talking about Major League. Oh, okay. Major league, yes. I mean, I couldn't think of anything. I know that there's recency biased, but it's like how recent is it really biased when you're saying someone who hits three home runs, first of all, leads off, hits three home runs and then throw six innings of shutout baseball and striking out 10 major league players that are on also at the NLCS trying to beat you if you did in the World Series? Maybe. I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out like.

[Jason Stark]

Nobody has done that.

[Doug Glanville]

Yes. It just sort of stops there.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, see, here's my, here's my thing. You just mentioned this. He hit three home runs. One of them left the stadium. Right 10 strikeout, no run, two hitter for six plus innings, no runs, 10 strikeouts through 100. And oh, by the way, his team is going to the World Series. Think about it. No matter what game people bring up, nobody has done that. Like, I've brought the Rick Wise fan club back to life. Rick, you're welcome. Glad you're back on the radar screen. Great day. Two homers and a no hitter is an amazing day on a baseball field. It wasn't this. It was not this. Am I missing something? It was not this.

[Doug Glanville]

I was calling this game and there was a certain point I was like, what's going on right now? Like, I, I felt like it was like out of body experience because like there was a point where it wasn't like standing ovation cheering. It was almost like I don't want to be too loud because I might drown out the moment because I just want to stare at Shohei Ohtani and Just like, try to understand. This is one person, right? We're talking about like he had five games, five great games by one person, right? It was like, yeah, okay, he's throwing 100, but he's also locating a sweeper and a splitter and a slider and a curveball. He's like game planning. Like, I mean, that's the thing that I felt like, was like kind of understated. Like, I watched him pitch to like Durban and I watched him pitch to Contreras and he would throw that like front door sweeper and then go close with the splitter. And he broke out the splitter kind of more in the third, fourth inning. Kind of waited for them to go around. Like, this was way more than just like, me, Shohei Ohtani, me just bash you with bat. I mean, this guy was thinking out there, strategizing, executing, doing it as a pitcher, doing it as a hitter. Three home runs all over 420ft. One left the building. He does it on a game that gets his team in the postseason. He wins the MVP award and had a horrible series going because of one game, because it was that unbelievable. And you know, like I joked during the, the wild card that, you know, all these Hollywood producers and directors were in the audience. I might have mentioned this and Jason Bateman and Jerry Bruckheimer and whatever, right? So I was joking around that I would like to do a script and you say based on a true story. And then at the time it was like, okay, Shohei Ohtani's game where he went 50, 50. So just imagine being in the writers room and saying, hey, I have this true story about baseball. And the finale is going to be this dude who goes 6 for 6 hits, 3 home runs, steals, 2 bases, extra base hits.

[Jason Stark]

He.

[Doug Glanville]

He does something that if you just take one of those things all these hall of Famers had never done, then he did it in one game, he had 10 RBIs. So imagine being in the writers room of a real true baseball production and they're just like, they're laughing you out of the room. Wait a minute. So he's going to go 50, 50, which never happened before, and he's going to go 6 for 6 and hit three home runs and do all these. They laugh you out of the room. It's like science fiction. So I thought that was enough. But no, Ohtani decides to top that. So now I'm in the writers room going, okay, so there's this guy, he's got a pitch in the NLCS in a clinching game. And he's going to go. He's going to lead off and hit three home runs, one of them out of the stadium. And then, oh, by the way, he's also the pitcher against the team that was top five and run scored in the National League. And he's going to shut them out and he's going to strike out 10 of their batters throwing 100 miles an hour. So then of course the writers room's like, dude, like, what's wrong with you? Like, why are you coming up with these impossible baseball stories that do not exist? So that is Shohei Ohtani every single time. So, I mean, I'm figuring, yeah, I think you have something to say because this probably is the greatest game ever played by one person.

[Jason Stark]

Always good to remind people he's a real person. And I think we're just kind of glossing over the part about where he hit a ball out of that stadium. The crazy thing is I wrote about this that afternoon I walked out to the right field pavilion with Mark Langel, who's the great historian for the Dodgers, because he said, hey, let me show you the marker we just put up for the ball that Kyle Schwaber hit last week. Because Kyle Schwaber had just become the first man in 50 years to hit a ball over the right field pavilion at Dodger Stadium. It's an iconic place to hit a baseball. So we looked at the Kyle Schwerber marker. We looked at the two Willie Stargel markers from way back in the day, 507ft by Willie Stargell in 1969, walked up to the very top row of the pavilion and looked to see just how far it was and thought, how could any human have ever done that? And we were just basking in the history of it. We didn't think we were foreshadowing the next bit of history. Two hours later, it was so surreal. Doug and Mark, of course, texted me instantly and said, I think we're going to need another plaque. No kidding. So amazing to try to put this in its proper place. And you know what I think we should do? We should ask this week's special Starkville guest stars what they think. So let's do that. Another week, another spectacular lineup of famous baseball people making that pilgrimage to Starkville. And we love it when these two guys visit. We've got Steve Phillips, former GM of the Mets, now the host of the leadoff spot on MLB Network radio on SiriusXM and an analyst on TV for MLB Network. And also here, Ned Coletti One of my oldest friends in the business, former GM of the Dodgers, now a hockey scout for the San Jose Sharks and a professor at Pepperdine. And Ned is the author of an amazing book about life in a baseball front office. It's called the Big Chair. Got all that out. How are you guys?

[Steve Phillips]

Yeah, doing great. Doing great. I think you called Ned old. I heard it that way. I don't know if you meant.

[Ned Colletti]

I heard it that way, too. Longest friendship, maybe one of my longest running friendships. One of my oldest friendships. Oh, okay.

[Jason Stark]

It's a rough crowd. I don't think that's what I said at all. You know what I did think, though? These guys have almost as many jobs as you.

[Ned Colletti]

Okay.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

So, Steve, Ned, we're really grateful that you fit us in, and obviously we want to spend a lot of time talking about this. World Series, Dodgers, Blue Jays. But Doug and I were just kicking around the most incredible thing that we've ever seen. The Shohei Ohtani game in game four in the nlcs. And boys, I wrote in the Athletic, this was the greatest game any human has ever had on a baseball field ever turned out. Not everybody agreed with that, but I know I can count on you two to be with me 100%. Ned, I'll start with you. You're with me, right?

[Ned Colletti]

Well, as my oldest friend, you know, it's, It'd be tough not to be with you when you think about the entire. If he, if he would have just had the pitching, it would have been a really good game. Okay. Clinch game, 10 strikeouts, no runs, all that. But that he does what he does offensively, it just changes the entire thing. There's no, there's no real comparison. Not even Babe Ruth did it like this. Now, he hasn't done it for 15 years or 10 years, but for the moment in time, I don't know how you get better than that.

[Jason Stark]

Right. Steve, what do you think?

[Steve Phillips]

Yeah, So I thought you were going to think the most unbelievable thing you saw was the 8, 6, 2 double play that took place. Like, I've never seen that before either.

[Jason Stark]

Basically an entire show about it last week.

[Steve Phillips]

I, I, it's amazing. There's nobody like him. And, and like Ned said, I mean, not even Babe Ruth did this with the consistency level that we're talking about. And, and, you know, coming off of struggling where, you know, he was, I don't know, 2 for 29, 3 for 29, and then he hits three home runs and strikes out 10, and he gets the MVP. I'm like, wait, he was Struggling and. And in one day, he completely erased that in. In walks home with a trophy out of it. So it really is remarkable. And the humility that he shows and that he's a good guy and a good teammate, and he's got a, you know, a smile. He loves the game. It's just. It's so good for baseball, and it's good for the international aspect of the game as well. So I've never seen anything like it.

[Jason Stark]

If you review the story, comments on my column, which I don't actually recommend, you'll hear about every great game ever played. You know, like, I have great reverence for the Jack Morris game and the Don Larson game and Reggie Jackson and the Rick Wise. I've brought Rick Wise back to life, but none of them were this. Like, Don Larson forgot to hit the three homers, okay? Reggie Jackson forgot to punch out 10, and Rick Wise did it in the.

[Doug Glanville]

Middle of a season.

[Jason Stark]

This guy did it in the game that his team was going to the World Series, and he hit a ball out of the stadium. Like, seriously, tell me I'm wrong. How can I be wrong?

[Ned Colletti]

He's two players. He's two distinctly great players. And it's one thing to have a great player. Reggie Jackson, great player. The Kirk Gibson home run, great player. Joe Carter, great player. But to have two players in one body, that's what he is.

[Steve Phillips]

He's two players, you know, nearly impossible. Oh, and he can run, by the way, too. Like, fly. Fly, absolutely fly. In one of the fastest players in the game. And, you know, he has stolen 50 bases. Now, again, he backed off a little bit this year, and I think we all understand why. But he can do anything he wants on a field. And that's why, like, in the playoffs, where in the regular season, they might pull back a little bit in the playoffs, he will do anything. I mean, he might be the first guy ever to steal first base. Like we say, you can't. You can't. Like, he might do it. And so, yeah, I mean, it's. It's. It's so much fun to watch. You can't take your eyes off of him. And the notion that he starts pitching and he'll immediately then, you know, go to hit right away when they're playing. Like, it's just. Again, it's. It's remarkable that a guy can do that and survive physically over the course of a season.

[Jason Stark]

Like Little League right now, Steve, you and I have listened to our friend Brian Kenny rant and rave for, I don't know how Long about he should stop pitching, that it's hurting his value, it's hurting his offense. You know, this, the arguments, right. Said to Andrew Friedman after this game. So, Andrew, for all the people who think that should we just show them the video of this game, would that end it? He said, yeah, we'll enter that into the exhibit and rest our case.

[Steve Phillips]

Yeah, you know, the biggest concern is that, you know, he has been the most protected pitcher in baseball, right? And he's broken down twice needing Tommy John. And so, you know, the concern is, can his body sustain this? You know, it felt like prior to the last Tommy John, remember, the Angels didn't trade him. They traded to bring in guys at the deadline. Then he goes out and he pitches the shutout against the Tigers in the first game of doubleheader. Then the second game, he hits two home runs, but he starts cramping up around the bases. Then after that, his body started cramping his hands, his hip, his, his calves. And it felt like his body was starting to reject being a two way player. Then he breaks down and he's Tommy John now. He works his way back again and there will be a window where he will be so unique and so different. Just the question is how long can anybody's body hold up to continue doing this? Because nobody can do this.

[Jason Stark]

I get it. But does he get a vote? He wants to do this. It's very important to him to do this. Doug, where are you on this?

[Doug Glanville]

I'm just curious, like, how you even value, you know, talk about valuation. Like, you know, you're trying to say, like, all right, I'm going to pay this guy X. Or you know, in a culture of a team saying, okay, I need you to, I need these conditions by which I may be able to pitch. I'm curious to hear from, you know, Steve and Ned about, like, how you even assess that organizationally. Start with you, Steve.

[Steve Phillips]

I think it's a great question. He's not an easy guy to manage because, you know, he's going to pitch once a week, which means that when you build the roster, you're going to need five other starters because he's only going to start once every six days, most likely. And you need five other starters who are okay to do that. You know, not everybody likes to pitch that way. And, and which I, I think led them to the collection of guys who have been somewhat injury prone, who all need to be protected a little bit, that you can sell them all on that to be able to make it work. But, you know, from a roster construction point of view, the extra roster spot helps them a little because you know, one, he's the two way player, but he also you need the other starter too. So it is complicated and he does kind of run the show. It feels like where he's saying this is what I'm going to do and now everybody else has to react to it. I'm kind of old school and admittedly possibly a little bit inflexible around things and so like I'd have a hard time figuring out how to manage it and thinking that it's the right way to do it. To be fair to all of the other players. Despite his greatness, I have a hard time figuring out how to make it all work. Although the Dodgers are making it work.

[Ned Colletti]

Hi, I'm Derek Classen, host of the Athletic Football Show.

[Jason Stark]

Today I want to talk to you.

[Steve Phillips]

About Boost Mobile offering reliable nationwide coverage.

[Jason Stark]

Backed by a 30 day money back guarantee.

[Steve Phillips]

Love your service or get your money.

[Jason Stark]

Back, no questions asked. Boost Mobile offers the same nationwide coverage network speed and service consumer are used to, but at more affordable prices. Why would you pay more if you don't have to? Boost Mobile also understands that change can be scary, which is why they allow.

[Steve Phillips]

You to try their service risk free for 30 days.

[Jason Stark]

And if you're not happy, you can.

[Steve Phillips]

Get your money back.

[Jason Stark]

So start saving on wireless today with Boost Mobile's unlimited plans starting at just $25 a month. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find us [e-mail] After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as.

[Steve Phillips]

Long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Jason Stark]

Customers who cancel within 30 days of.

[Steve Phillips]

Activation will have Boost service fees refunded.

[Jason Stark]

Activation fees if applicable, and phone payments will not be refunded. The Boost Mobile network, together with their roaming partners, covers 98% of the US population.

[Steve Phillips]

5G speeds are not available in all areas.

[Jason Stark]

Hair loss isn't just about hair, it's.

[Ned Colletti]

About how you feel when you look in the mirror. HIMS helps you take back that confidence.

[Jason Stark]

With access to simple personalized care that fits your life. HIMS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medication, serums and sprays. Dr. Trusted, clinically proven ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit HIMSS.com Athletic24 that's HIMSS.com Athletic24 for your free online, visit HIMSS.com Athletic 24. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Featured products include compounded drug products which.

[Steve Phillips]

The FDA does not approve or verify.

[Jason Stark]

For safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsupervised. And studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where GAB comes in. GAB offers safe phones and watches with no Internet or social media. Just the right tech at the right time. From smart watches for young kids to advanced parent managed phones for teens, Gab keeps kids connected safely. Visit gab.com getg and use code getgab for a special offer. That's G-A-B-B.com getgab Gab tech in steps. Independence for them, peace of mind for parents. Ned, how about you?

[Ned Colletti]

They go at it in such a unique way. Their view is always the long view. And I think when they sign players, they explain, hey, this is how we're going to do it. You're not going to make 30, 35 starts, okay? We don't expect that out of you. This is what we expect and this is how we do it. And it's been a proven, a proven line of success. I think Dave Roberts has done a terrific job of keeping people in those lanes. As far as how do you value this player? The Dodgers are very, very smart. Mark Walter, the primary owner, Todd Boley, Stan Cast, and guys we all know they are very, very brilliant when it comes to finance. So they probably had this in mind a year before they signed him. They're marketing people getting into Asia, things like that. The financial end of this has been a great boom for, for Shohei, probably even better for the LA Dodgers. So as long as you set forth what your expectations are at the outset, both for him and also for the other players playing alongside of him and rearranging their schedules, it works. It's one of the great stories, I think, of our era is how this franchise has done it all. One other thing about Shohei that amazes me, nobody came in till last season. In my career 50 years, almost no player came in with greater expectation than this player. The contract, how it was structured, going from Anaheim to la, the whole thing. And this man, believe it or not, has exceeded Expectation, we're hoping to get 50 cents on a dollar once in a while, right, Steve? What, a free agent? Yeah. I mean, I mean, this guy would give you a buck and a half for a dollar is crazy.

[Steve Phillips]

He's underpaid. I mean, the reality is he's underpaid. I mean, he is. I mean, really, when you do the present value of it, he's significantly underpaid for what he is as a player. And so I agree. And I think the Dodgers, this is. This was a great financial decision for them. I mean, Shohei is not hurting, obviously, and he's making as much off the field, if not more than what he's making on the field. The finances of this, for the team perspective, I could understand why they were willing to structure deal this way because it makes all the sense in the world because it allows them to keep putting good players on the field as well.

[Ned Colletti]

They'll make a billion dollars off this deal. I bet you they make a billion dollars off this deal.

[Jason Stark]

No doubt. I think we should mention the Blue Jays are also participating in the World Series. Can we talk about game seven of that alcs? What a game. George Springer and his epic homer. What do you think? Did it remind you more of Kirk Gibson because he's got the knee or Joe Carter because of where he hit it? Steve, what do you think?

[Steve Phillips]

I mean, it is a hybrid of the two for sure, but I think it's more like the Joe Carter me. We're talking about, you know, an elimination game, a game seven home run, not a game one home run. We're talking about a game seven home run. And again, of course, it was him. Like he is the heart and soul of that team. You know, I do a lot with TSN up there, so I watch the Jays a lot. He's the heart and soul. He was the MVP for the first half of the season and he really was the MVP that he got. He played even better in the second half. He's the spiritual leader of that team. They brought him in to help them get to the playoffs to win once they're there. 23 career postseason home runs, nine of those are go ahead home runs in his career. And he is the guy they feed off of on that roster. And so where Vladdy is the MVP of the series, I think that Springer playing in game six, where there was no question he was going to limp out there and play no matter what, that was the Gibson moment, but the game seven was the Carter moment of him going out there and of course coming up with that big home run and honestly, it brought tears to my eyes. When the cameras cut to his wife and his family celebrating and crying in the stands. I got emotional watching that because you guys all know what it takes to get to that point, to then, you know, celebrate that moment. It impacts everybody who's in your life and it just, it was so special.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, these are emotional, human moments very much. I want to talk about the, the Mariners pitching decisions in that game. They kind of hang over everything. Taking George Kirby out after four really good innings. Brian Wu pitches two innings, then he comes out out to start the seventh. Eduard Bizardo, they bring him in against Springer in the meat of that order. He just seen Springer the day before. Springer had just seen him. And then Andres Munoz doesn't pitch until they're already trailing just a lot there. Doug, you and I were talking, I mean, texting throughout this game. What did you think about how the Mariners navigated the second half of that game?

[Doug Glanville]

We love our game of second guessing. It's just the nature of it anyway. So, you know, it's one of those outcome driven in that sense. But I know I texted you after Springer, I texted. That didn't work, right, because, you know, I was watching the Sinker 2 Seamer play and I'm watching swinger swing who literally can get it to uppercut. He is going to hit a home run and it just felt like he's going to hit a home run. Now is that a feeling that you have as a manager coming in and taking a guy out? I kept thinking if he throws this two seamer or anything sinking out over the heart of the plate, he's in trouble. I mean, it was just like, you know, and I was watching Bieber and wondering like, he's not going to make it. He was hanging stuff. And Bizardo, that matchup, you know, it's almost like, you know, we just talked earlier about taking someone out in the middle of it bat. That's how I saw Bizzardo. Like you might want to get him now. You try to go with, you know, guys that you've had trust in and had good seasons and done well at leverage and, you know, Springer just was another level higher.

[Ned Colletti]

I hope it wasn't scripted out like that. You know, sometimes it's scripted. Sometimes, hey, we're going to go twice around the order. Then pitcher B's coming and then after this, pitcher C. You know, you got to watch the game, you got to see matchups, you got to see where people are at. I don't Know if it was scripted or if they did it by. By sight. But interesting decision making.

[Steve Phillips]

I didn't have such a problem with taking Kirby out because, you know, everybody takes a guy out an inning too soon instead of an inning too late. And I thought, you know What? You're up 3 1. You're bringing in your best pitcher in Wu. And I'm thinking, all right, I'm okay with that. But once Wu walked Barger and they gave up the single, the counterfeffe up and him and his bunts, the. The bastardo. That's the game right there. That's Moon. And I understand he's your ninth inning guy. And if. And here's the thing, he hadn't pitched. He had the off day and then didn't pitch a game six. So he's fresh. I'm looking at least two innings from him. And honestly, if I have to go a third inning for game seven, I'm going a third inning. So Munoz, for me, when it gets to Springer in the top of the lineup right there, it's got to be Munoz getting that. That inning for me, not Pizzardo. And so I, you know, for me, Munoz would have been the guy right there. And. And on the other side of it, I thought John Schneider did an excellent job. He got Bieber out when he needed to get Bieber out. Listen, Varlan, stuff always is at 100 miles per hour. 98, 99, 100. He can serve up a home run ball, and so he did. But I thought that Gosman in Bassett and, you know, using those two guys, I thought was the way to go with it. And intentionally walking Raleigh in that situation. Right? Two outs, nobody on. Do you walk him there? Gosman, I think, got affected by that in that moment. I think he. I don't know that he wanted to walk him. Then he walks Nailer, too, and you're like, oh, but he gets out of it. And then Hoffman for one inning, I thought was, you know, have it gone to the night before was probably the way to go there. So I thought Schneider's actually did a really nice job with it. I would have gone Munoz earlier if I'm. If I'm Dan Wilson.

[Jason Stark]

You know, I have a question for. For you two guys. We talk about the emotion of these games. You've both experienced the pain of losing in NLCS. Doug, you lost as a player in NLCS game 7. Can you express how difficult it is to lose that game? You're so close to a World Series. It's victory. It's vindication. All that work and all those decisions, you're about to get rewarded and then one pitch, one swing and it changes everything. Can you put into words what the Mariners experience, what their front office experienced? Ned, start with you.

[Ned Colletti]

Cubs in 84 was the best of five LCs. We went to San Diego with a two games in that lead, got swept in three, had a three nothing lead late in the game, a deciding game. That stuff sticks with you forever. Two World Series losing in game sevens. You remember that more than you remember the victory because it's such a hollow feeling. I mean, you're burnt out physically and emotionally and then you have nothing more to go to. And that is the coldest day of the year. I don't care. You could be 100 degrees out. That is a cold, cold day of emotion and trying to pick it back up. It is so hard to get there. Just to get to the playoffs is one thing. Then to get deep and to be within a play. And I don't ever believe one play kind of defines something because there's a million different things that have that could have happened earlier to change leads. It is a painful situation. I don't know about you, Steve, but I remember the defeats far more than the victories, 100%.

[Steve Phillips]

I mean we had the grand single that Ventura hit against Atlanta that extended us to go to a game six. And then we had the walk off walk from Kenny Rogers in Atlanta after we fell behind, came rallying back and Terry Francona sort of talked about it earlier in the playoffs. Like when you finally get eliminated, there's this abrupt stop. It's like, oh wait, it's over. Like, wait, what happened? It's like the, the Roadrunner cartoon where everything's going over these going. At the last second he stopped and like nothing's around him anymore. Like, what happened to everybody? Where did you go? The stadium was full. You were cheering, you were screaming. We got media asking us questions. Now everybody's gone and you left there just like, like what happened? And from an executive point of view, Ned, I don't know. The playoffs are so terribly painful. There is nothing enjoyable about it. Nothing. There's you, you don't enjoy it. I remember talking to Frank Redd and Dave Dabrowski after that 97 worlds. And they're like, it was miserable. I'm like, well, you won't understand. It's horrible. And then I finally understood because when you're in the field, you think that every pitcher, pitcher throws, something's going to go wrong. It's gonna like they're Gonna hit one in the gap, we're gonna make an error. They're gonna, like, they're gonna get out of the park. And like. And then when you're hitting, it's just like, all right, we've got a break for something not going wrong, but you don't really expect something to go right. And it's just. It. It's physical pain. I don't know that people say it's physical pain. You know what else painful? When you have to wait a week to play the World Series. And every day is like a week. It never gets here. It's like kids waiting for Christmas. You know that it's next week, but it's like, it never gets here. Honestly, there's. It's not fun at all. There's no fun. It's not fun. Afterwards, you can look back on it and sort of think, okay, yeah, that was kind of fun going through it. But when you're going through it, it's literally physical pain.

[Ned Colletti]

And as painful as this is, losing is even worse.

[Steve Phillips]

Yeah, it's so bad.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah.

[Ned Colletti]

All right.

[Jason Stark]

That's a good segue to this World Series. Look, no team in this sport has won back to back World Series in 25 years, and yet it feels like most people think the Dodgers are like the Michael Jordan Bulls. And I wonder if they're that unbeatable. Ned, nobody here sees them more than you. What do you think?

[Ned Colletti]

Well, I think they're going to be tough to beat, but they are beatable. And you know, they. Some of their struggles through the last regular, after they get to the playoffs after regular season is that the competition doesn't really challenge them. As you go back to this playoff series, where was the challenge? Was there any challenge at the highest level? I don't think there was any challenge. Philly, maybe for a minute. So they'll get challenged by this. But they are. They are so. They are so disciplined with what they do. You better not nibble if you're pitching against them, because they will wait you out and you'll be into that bullpen in the fourth inning. And if you're pitching, if you're waiting for them, their stuff is so electric, especially Snell and Yamamoto late. You better be cautious. You better watch what you do and you better be able to decide it and take a walk. But they will exploit your weakness. Toronto's got a chance to win. They're going to have to play their best, and the Dodgers are going to have to play less than their best. Best. First best.

[Steve Phillips]

It's decided you go back to 1985, there have been four times where one team is swept, and the other team in the league Championship series has gone seven games. And in all four of those series, the team that went seven games in the league Championship series won the World Series. And so that layoff has been a factor for teams, it seems, and it's hard to go back to those moments, but I think it probably felt then like the team that swept has got to be the team that's going to run through this World Series. They're going to dominate. It's not that easy. And, you know, I think the way to beat the Dodgers, and it's a narrow pathway, right? There's. It's not. It's not. You don't have a lot of ways to beat them. You've got to wait out for starting pitching. You've got to grind out every at bat and get them out of the game. Right? You got to follow off pitches. Now, that's the bread and butter for Toronto, right? They work the count. They battle you, they scratch, they claw. They don't strike out. They put it in play. They force you to make plays. Then I think you have to take advantage of the bullpen, which is somewhat the soft underbelly, I think in a series, this series, I think the Blue Jays would have to steal a game from Sasaki, who's looked great, but when he has gotten shaky, he's gotten really shaky. So you got to get under his skin a little bit. And then you've got to keep the Dodgers and offense in the ballpark. You can't give up the home run. You got to keep in the ballpark, avoid the crooked number. If it is a home run, let it be a solo home run. And you got a shot that way. But only a shot, I think. So. It's. It does feel lopsided on paper, but it's closer than I think it looks.

[Ned Colletti]

I think Toronto's got a better chance than Seattle would have had.

[Steve Phillips]

I agree. Yeah, I agree.

[Doug Glanville]

It's interesting because with the Dodgers, their bullpen has become a mystery. You know, it kind of went from like, oh, this might be a weakness, or, you know, and then it's like, wait a minute. All these guys going eight, nine, you know, hitting three home runs while he's doing it, and you're like, wait a minute, who is this bullpen? You know? You know, so I don't know how taxed they've been from the standpoint of starting with leverage in the fourth inning, for example, where you see Some teams, you know, were forced in that scenario. So to me, that's a big wild card about what the status of this bullpen really is when they have to go longer than, like, two innings. And that's the gift that their starters have provided. Now to Dave Roberts credit, they won last year, and they had like two and a half starters. You know, they didn't have a full rotation, and they had more innings pitched by their bullpen than their starters last year in the postseason, and they, they rolled to a World Series title. So I'm kind of watching that. I'm curious, like, that times, you know, a week off, like, what's this bullpen going to look like on the other side? You know, I just, I'm very curious to see that because, you know, the Jays are, you know, they're locked in and they're home, so that's an extra bonus for them.

[Jason Stark]

So Dave Roberts said something on the podium after game four I think we should talk about. He said, before this season, people said the Dodgers are ruining baseball. And then he said, so let's get four more wins and really ruin baseball. And I know he was like half kidding, but I think we should talk about this. If the Dodgers win another World Series, are people just going to conclude that they ruined baseball?

[Steve Phillips]

Steve, I think in some ways it leads to the labor negotiation in some ways, and the team that spent the money is the team that's doing it. They're unapologetic about it. It creates an unfair balance, and we've got to do something structurally to adjust it. And so in that way, I hope they don't win, because I don't want that to be the narrative as we go into a negotiation. I think it's a lose, lose for everybody. If that's the notion that everybody has. We have had the fewest repeat winners of any of the professional sports. We've had the most different teams in playoffs of any of the professional sports. And yet everybody says, oh, there's, you know, you need the salary cap to be able to do it, to balance things out and to get. No, like, I understand that it's different, but it doesn't have to lead to some sort of a work stoppage to be able to fix something where we're trying to fix something that's more of a problem in every other sport that has the salary cap. And so I worry about it, but I'm hoping that cooler heads prevail.

[Jason Stark]

Do you know that we have someone here who was a recent general manager of the Dodgers who didn't seem like he had a blank checkbook or it's not the right terminology. Right. Bottomless checking account. Ned?

[Ned Colletti]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

I think I said this to you. Last year when you were the GM of the Dodgers, your owner Frank McCourt was in chapter 11. Now, the Dodgers just committed a billion and a half dollars to free agents over the last two off seasons. Is that pretty similar to what you had to work with?

[Ned Colletti]

Well, my dear scout, Vance Lovelace used to tell me when he turned a rental car in, you had to check in the seat cushions for a quarter so we could call home. So I think somebody told me this the other day, that what the Dodgers have spent this particular year, including luxury tax payment, in a month's time, they would spend all I've spent all year long in a month's time, they'd be done by May 1st. So it was like six times what we had.

[Jason Stark]

And you went to the playoffs every year somehow.

[Ned Colletti]

Yeah, well, we had good people and we worked hard, but it's an interesting time. Steve's points are great about, you know, the variety of teams, but at the same time, when you look at at Seattle and Milwaukee, I think if you added their payrolls together, they'd be 60 million shy roughly of LA. So you get to a certain level and there's compete for six months, but then you get deeper into it. Who's got four starting pitchers like these guys do? Nobody. They may have one. They don't have four. So you're going to have a bullpen game in here. You're going to have different dynamics here and there that, that the Dodgers don't have to worry about. And I think that's where it gets separated. It gets separated at the end. You know, I don't know what you do about that because everybody's making money. Everybody who's owning the team ain't selling it for a loss. A lot of other teams could have deal with what Mark Walter did. I give him a lot of credit. They win, and most of it's not most times. Some of the times when people win, the hunger goes away. The more they win, the more they want to win. And that don't happen all the time.

[Jason Stark]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile.

[Doug Glanville]

Commercial like you teach me.

[Ned Colletti]

So, Dana.

[Jason Stark]

Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly simply AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow impressive. Let me try T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Steve Phillips]

T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jason Stark]

So what are we having for watch dude my work here is done.

[Steve Phillips]

The 24 month bill credits on Experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax.

[Jason Stark]

And $35 device connection charge credit same to balance due to payout earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A.

[Steve Phillips]

New line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required.

[Jason Stark]

Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklo Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com Group.

[Steve Phillips]

Health Insurance can put businesses in a tough position with rising costs and plans that don't fit everyone's needs.

[Ned Colletti]

Now a new form of employer coverage called an Ichra or Ichra can help.

[Steve Phillips]

Ichras make costs predictable with stable pre tax contributions. And they make health plans personal because each employee can pick any plan and carrier that meets their needs. Get coverage you control.

[Jason Stark]

Learn [e-mail] Ichra Pura brings smart fragrance and function together, premium scents, smart app control and sleek design. And here's the best part. Your first set of fragrances is free. Hurry to pura.com now and upgrade your home today. You know what's an interesting part of this Dodgers wrecking baseball plotline is the Blue Jays are part of it. They worked so hard to try to sign Ohtani and then last winter tried so hard to signed Sasaki. You wonder, when the Dodgers are in the picture, do the other teams, no matter what they offer, have a realistic shot at signing either of those guys? And especially a team like the Blue Jays. They've got resources, they've got a whole country fueling all this.

[Steve Phillips]

Steve yeah, so I think in some ways, you know, they built the dream team there. So LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to where I want to play with them because they're going to win a championship. And so Sasaki looked at it and said, I don't know, like I look at all your teams are really nice and you got good ideas about my velocity. But I mean they do kind of have Ohtani and Yamamoto and Freddie Freeman and Mookie Betts. And so, you know, it's not just, you know, the, the money, it's also the, the ability to win and the star players that are there and the, the veterans who have been there before and who have, you know, in the view that they're going to win a championship. So, you know, I think that, look, at some point the Yamamoto contract may not work out down the road. I mean, I mean, it's great right now, but it may not. Ohtani will work out because he can hit and he's going to always hit. But you know, I think everybody else is going to compete still. But there is a part of trying to keep up with the Joneses. So Steve Cohen is the one owner who can play that game. Right. And yet David Stearns has not wanted to do that with starting pitching. And I think he's going to realize if I'm going to play the game, that's the price of playing the game, is I got to invest in starting pitching like everybody else is too, and understanding the risk of it, that if I go second tier pitching and then they underperform and they get hurt, then I'm dealing with third tier pitching and I can't win if I do that, even if I have first tier position players. But I think Steve Cohen will play that game some and everybody else will have to be creative. But when we added the extra playoff round in the wild card, we've made it that much more difficult. And it's not easy to win the number of games that you have to to win a champions. And so that's why I think we don't have repeat champions is because it's fine, you can get there, but it's tough to win when you're there. It's not the best team, it's the team that plays the best in a short series, in a tournament.

[Jason Stark]

I want to ask you about the guy that Blue Jays did sign, Doug. This is a good one for you too, Vlad. When a team signs a player like this to what is essentially a lifetime contract, I mean, what they're hoping is the player understands he's getting paid to do more than just show up and swing the bat four times a night. There's a responsibility that goes with a contract like this. And the transformation in Vladdy, the way he has stepped up to be a true leader is something that I don't know that I saw coming. And I'd love to know what you guys see. Doug, let's start with you.

[Doug Glanville]

They kind of had to do that, right? I mean, they needed and it's, you know, it's showing that it's paying off in a sense of, you know, you get the anchor and someone who's putting in the work, you know, all this talent, young legacy and you know, already knows Canada. All these things that are really, that he, that comes with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. And you know, he rose to the occasion. You know, he always had more sort of plate discipline than his dad. Right. You know, it's like, okay, dad hitting balls, bouncing over his head. I mean, we tried to walk him one time and then bottom of the ninth inning, he hit a ball off the foul pull down the right field left. It's like that would have hit a left handed batter. Like what, what is he doing? So Junior is just, you know, he's a special player and he's, he's showing it now. So yeah, I think it matters. It's a commitment, right? And you know, and it's a commitment not just to, you know, the players and free agency, but to the fans, you know, and I'm curious around that you think about Ohtani, for example, and deferral and what that does. You know, you wonder if other teams, I know it exists out there, but when you have that collective mentality around deferrals and opening up room to be able to get Suzakis and Yamamoto's and all that, what that could actually do. And I'm curious in collective bargaining or what will happen, how they'll look at that. Because if you want to be like that's not fair, you might go to the Dodgers and say Ohtani put some money aside, he can do that. But, but I feel like that Guerrero Jr conversation is interesting because, you know, would he go back and restructure his contract so that you can get, you know, free agent X because he has that power? Probably.

[Jason Stark]

Ned, Steve, you guys have signed some players to some big deals. Do you see in Vlad what I'm seeing?

[Ned Colletti]

I do and I'm glad for Toronto and I'm glad for Vlad because they had, I don't think they had a choice. I think they needed to sign him. I think the entire franchise takes a hit. The sport in Canada probably takes a hit. They signed him and he's kind of risen to the occasion. And again, I'll go back to the, you know, hoping to get 100 cents on a dollar. You know, they're getting it so far. I mean, you got a long way to go. They win a World Series, it'd be less painful if it doesn't work out down the road, but you never know. I mean, I signed Clayton, who I've known since he was 18 years old, a 300 some million dollar deal. And I can't tell you that, that I jumped at the opportunity to do it. As much as I wanted him and loved him and have known him since high school, you never know. But sometimes you got to do what you got to do. It's a talent because there's only so much extreme talent out there. And Vlad. Vlad's picked it up. He has become what they hoped he would be.

[Steve Phillips]

Remember, they tried for Ohtani, and I think if they had, they wouldn't be able to afford Vlad. Then they tried for Soto last off season before signing Vladimir. They tried for Soto and didn't get him. And then they make the deal with Vlad, and I wondered whether he'd be like, well, wait a minute, like, I'm kind of your third choice right now. You were throwing a lot of money at everybody else except for me. I went to go watch him in Buffalo for TSN before he got called up, wondering, like, when's he going to be ready? And I saw him then, and I saw him leading off a third base lazily. And, you know, he'd walk down the line, he'd end up in fair territory when the ball was crossing the plate, which you don't do, right in case the ball's hit. You get hit with the ball, you're. You're out. And I thought, like, oh, boy, like, he's not committing to little things. Then I saw him get to the big leagues and he could hit. And then I saw him work and get. He wasn't a great third baseman. Didn't come in in great shape. Then I saw him go to first base, win a Gold Glove. Then I saw him start to change his body. And the level of growth and maturity that I've seen in him is really unparalleled than any player getting this contract. The level of responsibility that he's accepted to be that guy, which means that not, you're not just a hitter, you're a defender. We saw that in this series. You're a baserunner. We saw that in this series. And you're somebody whose energy lifts other people up. When he came in and hugged Savage from behind in the game six, and when he's in the dugout celebrating everybody else, he's not ever celebrating himself. There are some guys who play and they're like, okay, look at me. Look at what I just did. He makes a play and worries about the next play, and he celebrates everybody else. He plays the. He's a winner. And I think that if I'm going to give $500 million to somebody. I want to give it to a winner. And he has matured into that guy. For the Blue Jays, I think it's fantastic what he's become.

[Jason Stark]

Very well said. The Blue Jays saw the talent. I don't think they ever saw this side of this player until he signed that deal. And everything has changed with them and with him. All right, I know we gotta run, but I gotta ask you about the one monster trade that the two of you once made. Back in the day. It wasn't Mets, Dodgers, this was Mets, Giants. This was back when Ned was working with Brian Sabian in San Francisco. Huge deal. December of 2001, the Giants traded Sean Estes, very useful left handed pitcher to the Mets for Seyoshi Sinju and Desi Relaford. Boys, just what's your quick remembrance? I bet that too.

[Steve Phillips]

So we wanted a pitcher and you know, I always liked Estes and thought there was more in his game. And like everybody else, we always think we're smarter and we're going to get more out of the player than what everybody else has got. Like every team thinks, oh, I'm going to get more from that guy. And he was a serviceable guy for us. Shinjo was the coolest dude I've ever seen in a major league uniform. I mean, he had the swag, the wristband game, the sunglasses game. His clothes he wore off the field. He had a stylist. He was the coolest guy ever. But the thing I remember the most is after the trade, in an interview, Shinjo said that he was going to make it his life's mission to slay the New York Mets every time he played. And I thought, man, I don't know that I want to get close to him when he comes to town right now. Because he wasn't all that happy about it. And I think we actually signed him back the following year for a little bit as well. But that's, you know, my remembrance of it. You guys needed some infield and outfielder. I needed a pitcher and it fit both teams.

[Jason Stark]

Now you traded for him. Is that what happened? He slayed the Mets.

[Ned Colletti]

Oh gosh, he did have swag. I mean he, he had, he had a stress swag.

[Steve Phillips]

I mean, he dated Paris Hilton at one point. The definition of swag from what I.

[Ned Colletti]

Think, I think stage once, well, would say, hey, how about mixing in a hit once in a while. We never saw Desi Relative play in a Giant uniform. We traded him that winter to Seattle for David Bell, who turned out to be a key player for us in 02 without David Bell. We don't get to the World Series in 02 and have one of those painful losses.

[Jason Stark]

Doug saw Desi relifer play quite a bit.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah, Philly, absolutely. That's right.

[Jason Stark]

Hey, no. We got it.

[Doug Glanville]

Run.

[Jason Stark]

Steve, Ned, it's been so cool to have you here. Always special to tap into your wisdom at such a fun time. Thank you, guys. Look forward to seeing you both down the road.

[Steve Phillips]

My pleasure. Happy to do it. Good to see Ned. Doug, big fan of yours. Keep up the great work. And Jason, you're the man. Love you.

[Ned Colletti]

Love you guys. Thank you for having us.

[Jason Stark]

Strange but true, Doug, Here comes another one of those strange but true moments that you were there to witness. And this time I was too. It's got a little deja vu element to it, but I think that actually makes it more fun, not less fun. So let us roll the clock Back to the seventh inning of Game 3 of the NLCS. Jackson, Cheerio is batting for the Brewers. Blake Trinen is pitching for the Dodgers. And then the Strange Vitruness busts out.

[Ned Colletti]

Two outs.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, and to the count in the Milwaukee seventh Trident.

[Ned Colletti]

And that one hung right there. Cheerio fouls it back. I think he's cramping up. Remember, he's got that bad hamstring. He swings so hard that he pulled.

[Steve Phillips]

It and he cannot bend his right leg right now.

[Jason Stark]

And he's hopping his way off the field.

[Ned Colletti]

And somebody's gonna have to take this.

[Doug Glanville]

At bat with two strikes.

[Ned Colletti]

Cheerio's out of this game. So Blake Perkins, a switch hitting center fielder, is going to resume the at bat. The catch is.02. This is essentially a free at bat for Perkins. Whatever the result is in the negative.

[Doug Glanville]

With Alongicurio, Perkins has to know he.

[Ned Colletti]

Is going to get a good pitch to hit.

[Jason Stark]

Two balls, two strikes, and he got him tried and sticks with the breaking ball.

[Steve Phillips]

That strike out of a long to Cheerio. Perkins goes down.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. Our friend Brian Anderson, he nailed it. So what you just heard in a nutshell, was Jackson Cheerio striking out despite one slight technicality. Doug, he wasn't even on the field at the time he struck out. Okay, You're a wise man. Should that be possible? I mean, what the heck?

[Doug Glanville]

Well, it started to happen more often. So I mean, I mean, he wasn't on the field. He probably was like in the locker room. He was in a shower. He might have been in the parking lot, you know, I mean, he was nowhere. And just the way he, like hopped off the field, he really couldn't bend his leg. We know that Cheerios had this hamstring issue early on in the. Like, it was in the Cub Series, I think. And then he kind of, like, you know, was worried about it, and they were compensating, but then he was still playing, and then you couldn't tell the difference. Did I pull it or did I crampet? He kind of freaked out. And we talked to Pat Murphy, their manager, before the game, and he said, well, after the game. That was game three. So before game four. And he said he was starting to cramp up earlier in the at bat, because I noticed he was stretching, and I said something Toshambi about it. It's like, yeah, he's kind of stretching. Like, what's happening? So he was kind of feeling the cramp coming on. Thankfully, it was nothing really more than that, but, you know, just, I guess that's the thing. Like, it's a very generous team. It's like, I will share my at bat with you if you don't succeed. I will. You will. I will accept the consequences.

[Jason Stark]

Is that what happened?

[Doug Glanville]

If you hit a home run, I will donate it to you. I think that's beautiful. That's the beauty of baseball.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, I don't think that's what happened. I mean, so Blake Perkins, he swung and missed at strike three. But the rules of baseball are so great because they don't care. The rules say the guy who rolled up those first two strikes gets the credit for the strikeout. If credit is the right word. Doug, what is the right word there? Because credit feels like that would not be it.

[Doug Glanville]

Debit. Is it a debit? It could be a debit.

[Jason Stark]

He gets the debit. Yeah, he got something.

[Doug Glanville]

Debit. He got something. But, yeah, I like the. You know, if I'm up there, I'm like, hey, if I hit a home run, it's all good. If I don't. Let's, like. It's like a Bach. When someone throws a pitch at a Bach, you try to hit it out of the stadium. That's all. And then you have nothing to lose. I love it.

[Jason Stark]

Right? And so I know this sounds pretty strange. Here's the best part. It's not even the strange but true part of this. That part is that it wasn't even the strangest but truest strikeout of this postseason, because it's not the only time it happened. And you should remember the other if you listen, because we talked about that one right here also. That One was Game 2 of the Dodgers Red Series, you were there. Dave Roberts took at his pitcher, Emmett sheehan with a 12 count on will Benson, brought in a left hander, Alex Veccias. So Terry Francona said, okay, you want to mess with me in the middle of the at bat, I'll mess with you. I'm going to bring in a pinch hitter. So Miguel Anduhar comes up, swings and misses for strike three. But Doug, see if you're paying attention. Is that how history recorded that Miguel Andahar struck out?

[Doug Glanville]

Absolutely not. No, it did not. And who was pitching?

[Jason Stark]

Right. Alex Vessia struck out Will Benson, even though Alex Vessia never actually threw one pitch to Will Benson. So is this getting strange? But true enough, it is for me. All right, so back to Jack Centurio. Doug, can you believe that we've had two different hitters in the same postseason who struck out when they weren't in the batter's box? Think about it.

[Doug Glanville]

And like, yeah, the fact that it's one thing, like, then you pinch hit. So you had a pinch hitter and then you had someone just like wheeled off on a gurney, basically. So it's like, I don't, you know, it's like, it's a noble sport because we must finish the at bat. We must finish it at all costs. So I love that. I love that about baseball.

[Steve Phillips]

Right.

[Jason Stark]

It's so crazy. But, you know, I was curious. I get curious at times like this. So I thought, hey, I'll just ask my friends from stats if that's ever happened twice in the same postseason. And Doug, I don't want to give the impression that that was like a trick question or a hard question to look into. But you know how long it took them to look up that simple little question? I asked them, how about seven hours? Seven hours. And I feel so guilty when I do that to these people, you know, but sometimes that happens and it's late, it's at night, it's like 11 o' clock at night. I'm checking in, saying, hey, how you coming with that?

[Doug Glanville]

How's it going?

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, so they did find it. So how many other postseasons in the last 50 years do you think we've seen this? Two different hitters striking out while they were not actually on the field. How many, Doug? What do you think?

[Doug Glanville]

I mean, if it's 50, that's gotta be zero. Cause we're going back to the 70s there. I mean, they didn't even. Did they believe in pinch hitters in the 70s? Yeah, I think if the pitcher maybe.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. So you're guessing zero, right?

[Doug Glanville]

I'm guessing zero.

[Jason Stark]

Strong zero, once again, is the Starkville.

[Steve Phillips]

Numeral of the day.

[Doug Glanville]

Yes, it is.

[Jason Stark]

What we learned from stats after seven hours of research is it only happened two times combined in the previous 50 years of postseason baseball. And then you were lucky enough, you, Doug Lanville, to see it happen twice in two weeks. Doug.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, I witnessed it.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, you were there. Should we draw any deep and meaningful conclusions about baseball from that?

[Doug Glanville]

I mean, baseball is inherently deep and meaningful. I'm starting to think that with all my supply chain issues with the statue, we should come up with a term called instant statue. It's like, you know, so Shohei Ohtani gets an instant statue, like, as soon as it's done, it's made. Now I just need a little. I need material that could turn into a statue in three hours. A little faster than the research team, maybe. Three hours.

[Jason Stark]

Three hours. We. We've been doing this show for, I want to say, seven years, six years, we haven't had one statue. Now you're going to have instant statues.

[Doug Glanville]

Instant. Yes. You're delusional. It's so fast, you don't even see them. It's just so quick.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, well, whatever. Baseball is crazy. But you know what? It also is awesome. Okay, that's gonna do it for this week's show. Sorry, no trivia or calls from the listeners this week because Doug and I just do not have enough hours in our day right now. But both those things will be back. So, Doug, thanks for playing. Thanks to Steve Phillips and Ned Coletti for visiting us. Thanks to the mayor of Starkville, Brian Smith, for producing us and putting up with us. And thanks to you all for listening. Please remember to call our hotline with your baseball questions at 267-227-9867, or you can email us at starkvilleathletic.com. what's that number again, Doug?

[Doug Glanville]

Bop bap zoomp. That's how you remember it?

[Jason Stark]

Who could forget Bop bap zoomp? I forget it every week, but maybe you'll remember it.

[Doug Glanville]

Yes.

[Jason Stark]

All I know is Doug and I will see you soon. Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America.

[Steve Phillips]

I never look so good.

[Jason Stark]

You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me. You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies, Jack, please. With Verizon, new and existing customers can get the new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever. Plus a new iPad and Apple One with eligible phone trade in and unlimited ultimate best 5G source route metrics data United States 1H 2025 All Rights Reserve, Trade in and additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details.

[Steve Phillips]

You know what's faster than your paycheck? Literally everything. It's time to get your pay up to speed with Earn In. You can access your pay as you work. Instead of waiting days and weeks for.

[Jason Stark]

A paycheck, get up to $150 a day with a max of $750 between paydays. No interest, no credit checks and no mandatory fees.

[Steve Phillips]

Because, I mean, hey, it's your money. Download the Earn it app now to get it and join millions of people making any day payday. That's E A R N I N.

[Jason Stark]

Earnin is not a bank access limit.

[Steve Phillips]

They're based on earnings and risk factors available in select states.

[Jason Stark]

Expedited transfers available for fee terms and restrictions apply.

[Steve Phillips]

Visit earn.com for full details.

[Jason Stark]

Bucknell's graduates aren't just working, they're thriving. That's why LinkedIn ranked Bucknell University its number one liberal arts college for career outcomes. Discover the personalized career coaching, real world research and powerful professional network that prepare Bucknellians for a lifetime of success at Bucknell. Edu. Welcome.