Starkville | TBS Broadcasters Lauren Shehadi & Brian Anderson discuss the crazy double play in Game 1 of Dodgers-Brewers

Summary

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Starkville | TBS Broadcasters Lauren Shahadi & Brian Anderson Discuss the Crazy Double Play in Game 1 of Dodgers–Brewers

The Windup: A Show About Baseball / The Athletic (October 14, 2025)

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Episode Overview

This lively Starkville episode (from The Athletic’s flagship baseball podcast, The Windup) brings together host Jayson Stark, co-host Doug Glanville, and guests Lauren Shahadi (MLB Central, TBS) and Brian Anderson (play-by-play voice of TBS) for a deep-dive on the wild and unprecedented double play in Game 1 of the NLCS between the Dodgers and Brewers. Through humor, insight, and deep baseball nerdery, the group explores the chaos caused by the play, how it looked and sounded from various broadcast booths and the dugout, and why baseball’s postseason reliably delivers the never-before-seen. The conversation expands into the art of postseason broadcasting, the quirks of modern baseball, and the very human side of working in the game.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unprecedented 8-6-2 Double Play: Breakdown & Chaos

(03:47–11:12)

• The Play in Question:
  Max Muncie hits a 400-foot shot that’s almost a grand slam. Center fielder Sal Frelick appears to make (and then bobble) the catch; the ball glances off his glove, hits the top of the wall, and chaos ensues as runners are confused about whether to tag up or advance. The ultimate call: a double play, scored 8-6-2 (center field to shortstop to catcher)—a scoring sequence virtually never seen in MLB history.

• Total Confusion:
  All parties—players, coaches, umpires, broadcasters—were stunned in the moment. The booth teams on both TV and radio struggled to identify who made which call, what runners should do, and how to describe the play as it unfolded.

  • “If you're scoring at home, I hope you're not. It's an eight, six two ground ball double play. Even though as I pointed out in my column, there was no ground involved.” — Jayson Stark, 04:45

• Broadcast Chaos:

  • Doug Glanville describes watching it live, not knowing if it was caught, and the runners’ confusion.
  • Jason Stark is viewed by the press box as baseball’s chaos magnet:
    • “Everyone in the entire press box looks at me. I'm innocent. Okay?...You know, this only happened because you were here.” — Jayson Stark, 09:47

• Notable Stats:

  • Jayson Stark confirms through his research:
    “There's never been an 8, 2, 6, double play like...that in the modern history of baseball, regular season or postseason, never.” — Jayson Stark, 11:12

2. The TBS Booth Perspective: Anderson & Shahadi

(13:13–20:53)

• Brian Anderson’s Call Experience:

  • “I did not see the ball graze off the wall. So I thought it was a catch. That's a long way from the booth. Our instinct is always to look at the second base umpire. He didn't call anything. And so now all hell's breaking loose, runners are everywhere, the ball's coming in, the ball still live.”
    — Brian Anderson, 14:45
  • Explains TV’s behind-the-scenes chaos: tracking who made the call, managing replays, coordinating with production on whether to cut to commercial, etc.

• Lauren Shahadi in the Dugout:

  • Lauren recalls the Brewers side’s bafflement:
    “I was in the Brewer's side...I was completely confused. And I know the rule. But I had no idea in the moment what was going on...Sal Frehlick...he goes, ‘What the [expletive] just happened?’ That was what he said. He mouthed those words, and so now it's become a meme. Yeah, Sal, we're all with you.” — Lauren Shahadi, 23:46

• Broadcaster Relatability:

  • All agree: No one on the field or in the booth had ever seen anything like it, and the play’s uniqueness even stumped the professionals.

3. Defending the Players: The Human Element

(24:22–28:31)

• The Twitter/Armchair Quarterback Effect:
  Brian notes fan reaction:

  • “There's a group of people that are just, you know, so angry. Like, how could Teoscar, how could Will Smith, how could Brian Anderson...How could they...yeah, because this has never happened before ever, ever, ever.”
    — Brian Anderson, 24:24

• Basement Instincts & the Umpires:
  Doug and Brian review why even experienced base runners like Teoscar Hernández and Will Smith got it wrong—the confusion was justified by how unfamiliar and visually complicated the play was, despite the rules.

  • “If Chad Fairchild does not make that safe call...I'm not sure how they adjudicate that.” — Brian Anderson, 26:27

4. Ninth Inning Drama & The Art of the Sideline Reporter

(28:58–30:26)

• Preparing for Postgame Interviews:
  Lauren describes juggling interview prep for both possible outcomes as the game’s momentum swings dramatically.
  • “It was super loud, and I was just hoping that I could collect my thoughts after and ask the right questions in the moment.” — Lauren Shahadi, 30:15

5. The Manager Meetings: Roberts & Murphy’s Leadership Styles

(33:30–41:02)

• Pat Murphy’s Unique Approach:

  • “He’s constantly curious and asking and wanting to know this, that and the other...He can be that—like, his 15 minutes can turn into 30 quick...It allows him entry points that can...diffuse, prop up, or tear down with humor if needed.”
    — Brian Anderson, 35:30

• Dave Roberts’ Star Management:

  • Doug admires Roberts’ ability to “manage the stars” and philosophies for keeping such a powerhouse roster happy and motivated.
    • “I’m blown away at how well he does manage the stars and how much he has to acquiesce to their desire to not get bored almost, right?” — Doug Glanville, 38:36

• The Human Side:
  Lauren:

  • “It's not just managing a baseball game...they are managing people and families constantly. It's not just the season, it's over the winter, too.” — Lauren Shahadi, 35:23

6. Postseason Broadcasting and Its Unique Thrill

(43:11–46:29)

• Emotional Impact:

  • Brian: “When you’re in those biggest moments, it really is...the easiest part of the job but also the most pressure you feel. But the execution...when every pitch matters...is the easy part. The hard part is when it doesn’t.” — Brian Anderson, 43:11

  • Lauren: “I dreamt of these days...but it’s not about us and, you know, it’s about the game...we just want to do right by the players and the sport.” — Lauren Shahadi, 46:09

7. The Strange But True Segment: Baseball’s Mathematical Oddities

(51:32–63:58)

• Quirky Facts:

  • Stark and Glanville discuss the very first two-pitch strikeout in postseason history, brought about by a pitch clock violation (Brandon Marsh, Phillies). Without new rules, it would be mathematically impossible.
    • “How many two pitch strikeouts do you think there have ever been in postseason history other than this one? ...Zero. Zero is right. Only in baseball.” — Jayson Stark/Doug Glanville, 56:49

• OPS and Batting Average Gaps:

  • Listener question about lowest batting average with a .900 OPS in a season. Stark lists the short (and very recent) roster, with Cal Raleigh and Kyle Schwarber setting historic marks.
    • “How many had ever done it before that? 0. 0. ...these two guys did it in the same year.” — Jayson Stark, 63:00

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Oh, my God. You got all that? How could you?”
  — Jayson Stark, 04:45

• “The catchers get paid the big bucks? Because, like, yeah, I had no idea. Base runners had no idea. Umpires were like, I think I got this.”
  — Doug Glanville, 09:36

• "My hair was on fire for like four hours. You know, I'm the official worldwide curator of strange but trueness for some reason."
  — Jayson Stark, 05:26

• "We say that all the time. We love this game like we do. And I've never seen that play. And obviously nobody has ever seen that play in the history of baseball."
  — Brian Anderson, 14:04

• "I was in the Brewer's side...I couldn't tell what happened. I was completely confused. And I know the rule... But I had no idea in the moment what was going on."
  — Lauren Shahadi, 22:24

• “My Instagram feeds are just, like, being bombarded...It's comical today. Like the Monday morning quarterbacks: ‘This is easy...he should have done this.’”
  — Brian Anderson, 24:22

• "Jason, Brian and I had a conversation, I think it was in the division series and I said, can you believe we get to do this?"
  — Lauren Shahadi, 45:36

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Essential Timestamps

• 01:44 — Hosts open with greetings from Milwaukee, setting the postseason scene
• 03:47 — Wild 8-6-2 double play breakdown begins
• 12:20 — Guests Brian Anderson and Lauren Shahadi join the show
• 13:46 — Brian Anderson describes calling the play
• 18:18 — How radio/TV reflected the chaos to listeners/viewers
• 22:24 — Lauren Shahadi explains the confusion in the Brewers’ dugout
• 24:22 — Social media/fan blame & broadcaster relatability
• 28:58 — Ninth inning prep, intensity, and the loudness of the stadium
• 33:30 — Manager meetings: what it’s like off-camera with Roberts & Murphy
• 41:02 — How sideline questions are prepared and prioritized
• 43:11 — Postseason broadcasting compared to other major sports
• 51:32 — “Strange but true”: pitch clock violation & two-pitch strikeout
• 59:41 — Listener question: lowest BA with .900 OPS; Raleigh/Schwarber set records

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The Podcast’s Unique Tone & Takeaways

True to Starkville form, the episode is filled with wry humor, affectionate ribbing, and a sense of wonder at baseball’s capacity for the unprecedented. The hosts and guests relish the moments when the sport defies explanation, and their candid, behind-the-scenes perspectives shed light both on the human side of broadcasting and the beautiful, baffling complexity of postseason baseball.

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Summary: Why This Episode Matters

This episode is an instant classic for any fan who loves the nerdier and weirder side of baseball. The team’s honest, sometimes baffled reactions to a play that “nobody—ever—has seen before” provide a window into what it’s like to cover the game as both an entertainer and historian. The juxtaposition of high chaos on the field with cool-headed research and empathy for all involved makes for a rich, deeply engaging listen. The threads of respect and love for the game are clear—from the off-air manager talks to meticulous research on absurd new records—making this both a celebration of baseball’s quirks and a masterclass in top-tier sports journalism.

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Transcript

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[Brian Anderson]

Greetings and welcome to Starkville Baseball hall of Famer Jason Stark.

[Jason Stark]

And then the robot said, strike.

[Brian Anderson]

That's why you're going in. The hall of Fame hits it inside the park. Hold broad.

[Doug Glanville]

Doug Glenn Mike trod his coffee at Starbucks with a double latte Skinny.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, are you ready to make some podcast magic?

[Doug Glanville]

I am ready. Bring on the magic wand. Let's do it.

[Jason Stark]

Greetings and welcome to Starkville. I'm Jason Stark. I write about baseball for the Athletic, and I'm joined once again by my good friend, writer, substacker, broadcaster, professor, distinguished former major leaguer, and the voice of NLCS baseball on ESPN Radio, Doug Glanville. Doug, an amazing thing happened this week. We're actually in the same place at the same time. And by that, I don't mean Starkville. I mean Milwaukee.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, Starkville's everywhere, but so we're always in the same place at the same time.

[Jason Stark]

That's right.

[Doug Glanville]

However, Milwaukee is now physically possible. That actually saw you at breakfast yesterday. Pretty amazing.

[Jason Stark]

That's right. Yeah. Because we're even in the same hotel. It's a miracle. Is there some sort of powerful force in the Starkville universe when this happens? I mean, you seem like you'd be in tune with this sort of thing. What do you think?

[Doug Glanville]

They'd probably end up like copies of ourselves somewhere. I don't know where. But it must do something to the Starkville universe. And that all that does is just mess up my statue supply chain because I have to make like statues of our clones.

[Jason Stark]

Apparently, it couldn't be more messed up, Doug. So, yeah. So obviously we're both covering the nlcs. You for ESPN Radio, me for the Athletic, and as always, for Starkville. And today we have got two of our favorites from the TBS TV crew. Also on this series coming to visit. That's the amazing play by play voice on tbs, Brian Anderson. And our good friend Lauren Shahadi of MLB Central fame on MLB Network. She's the sideline reporter for this series. And we got some fun stuff to kick around, man. But Doug, you know where I want to start. Okay, we're recording this Tuesday. It's one day after game one. I don't know if you noticed this, but there was kind of a crazy double play in game one. If you somehow missed it, hear what it sounded like.

[Brian Anderson]

And Muncie Skies 1 to center field, hit. Well, this one's got a chance. Freeland going back to the wall. He leaps. It's in and out of his glove, but he caught it. And now chaos on the basis might have a play at the plate. The throw not in time. No.

[Doug Glanville]

He's out. He's out.

[Brian Anderson]

It's a force play at the plate. And he is out. Oh, of this is going to be reviewed. It. It's only a force play. If he didn't catch it, I don't think they know. Also, did he leave early? Once it hits the glove, you can leave the base. It hits the wall, It's a first play, then it's the first play.

[Doug Glanville]

It's going to be a force play.

[Brian Anderson]

It's no catch. It hits the wall off his glove. And now it's a force play at home.

[Doug Glanville]

Let's see.

[Jason Stark]

And the throw beat him.

[Doug Glanville]

So you're going to have bases loaded in.

[Jason Stark]

Two outs, three outs.

[Brian Anderson]

Cuz Contreras ran to third. He ran to third for another four. Another force.

[Jason Stark]

Oh, my God. You got all that? How could you? So that was a 400 foot rocket off the bat of Max Muncie. Looked like it was a grand slam. And somehow it wound up being scored as an 8, 6, 2. That's center field to shortstop to catcher. If you're scoring at home, I hope you're not. It's an eight, six two ground ball double play. Even though, as I pointed out in my column, there was no ground involved.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, yes. Except that shaking out of delirium of what we're trying to figure this thing out. I think the earth did open up somewhere in there. I'm not sure where. But, yes, it swallowed up all of our ability to describe what the heck was going on.

[Jason Stark]

My hair was on fire for like four hours. You know, I'm the official worldwide curator of strange but trueness for some reason. So I'll tell you how that play changed my life in a moment. But tell me what erupted in your booth. ESPN radio booth, you and John Shambi.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah, I mean, we had no idea what was going on. I mean, I think at first, you know, I'm looking with my eyes first. I don't look at the screen. You know, I watch the play first, and then the screen is a little delayed. So I can then like kind of get the zoom in, right? So I'm watching this and I see Freely go up at center and look like he might have made a great play. And then he bobbled it and then he might have caught it. So I was like, okay, that's a great catch. So then you realize, like, oh, what are the base runners doing? And they were completely befuddled because, you know, Teoscar Hernandez takes off, then he goes back and then he goes home. And then when the ball beat him, I'm like, well, you know, is he tagging him? Like, what's going on? But then it's like it's base is loaded. So this is a force play. The thing that's so crazy is then of course, you see the replay. And then hits Freely's glove and then hits the top of the yellow line at the top of the fence. Now, it could have gone over, would have been a home run. It could have done anything. And he does catch it, but it's after it hit the wall. So now it's in play. So now you're like, all right, task Hernandez. Everybody could just started running. Nobody was running.

[Jason Stark]

And Freely just has the wrong answer. Let's all run. That's the answer.

[Doug Glanville]

Nobody knew what to do. I mean, nobody. The Dino E, the third base coach, Teoscar Hernandez, Will Smith, Mun's, you know, Edmond's on first. He's going to pass him. Like nobody knew what to do. And so, yes, I remembered very clearly that once the ball hits the glove, you can tag up because obviously, why is that the rule? Because the center field could just juggle it to himself until he caught it, until he was and as he's walking towards home, then finally catch it and then throw you out. So of course you have the right to run soon as it hits your glove. But even then, the problem for Will Smith at second is he's looking at Tasker and he's. He's afraid to pass him or run into him while he's still at third. Because if it's a sac fly, you could. You could all just stay where you are, right?

[Jason Stark]

So if it was caught, nobody knew.

[Doug Glanville]

If it was caught, nobody knew. And look, the tough thing for the runners is, you know, I've definitely been in this situation where you're looking at the umpire, right? You're trying to figure out, like, my eyes are lying to me, right? Right now. So I'm gonna look at the umpire to see what the call is. And you're trying to figure out, right, there's six umpires and you're. You're used to looking at the umpire at second base. But no, you got to look at the left field umpire now and you're like, where is this guy? You know? And so is that the call? He's safe. Wait a minute. Is he safe as he dropped it? It's safe as at home run. Like, no idea. I really empathize with, like, Will Smith in particular, even though, like, I guess he probably should have just went at the throw at home, but he was completely confused. So it makes sense to be a complete disaster because of just everything that everybody's trying to figure out and nobody understands. And so you're, you know, Will Smith was jogging, and then you have a catcher get a force play at home and actually have the wherewithal to go run the third base and step on third. And I was like, okay, yeah, like, if he did that in a different order, you know, it's like, so I don't even know how it confers. I gotta ask him tomorrow. And I'm sure there's been quotes about it, but, like, he, he knew right away.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, I talked to him. He was the only person on the field who knew exactly what was happening. Like, I thought at first that Sal Freich did. He said no, he had no idea. And then I thought that Joey Ortiz made this great relay throw home. I thought, okay, he's. He's on top of it. No, he was screaming at him, but Contreras, he was adamant that he knew exactly what to do because, like, he stretched like a first baseman. Then he went running into third base. And he said to me, that's how I was raised. Like, I didn't get even. Get it, get that in. But it was really cool that he said it in English too, by the way.

[Brian Anderson]

Right?

[Doug Glanville]

That's why the catchers get paid the big bucks? Because, like, yeah, I had no idea. Base runners had no idea. Umpires were like, I think I got this.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, it was like that catcher's spidey sense. So, Doug, when a play like that happens, here's what it's like to be me. First off, everyone in the entire press box looks at me. I'm innocent. Okay? So then my friend Drew Olson, who's a longtime writer and radio guy in Milwaukee, he gets up out of his seat. He marches right over, he looks at me, and he says, you know, this only happened because you were here. I think I'm innocent. But, Doug, is there any chance that I do will stuff like this to happen?

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, John Chombie absolutely credited you for that. He said, jason Stark is here. It does something to the celestial worlds, and the wacky becomes alive. And it did. In the highest order.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Right?

[Jason Stark]

I guess I. All I know is I totally missed the next four innings. I woke up and it was the ninth, and the whole world was exploding. But, Doug, I was Texting and emailing 17 people at once from Katie Sharp and my friends at Stats. Poor Katie. I interrupted her at dinner. To Tyler Kepner because he wrote a book about the postseason. Even Larry BOHM texting us 75 times. I wrote a gazillion words about this in my column.

[Doug Glanville]

Thank you.

[Jason Stark]

I just suffice it to say, I concluded there's never been an 8, 2, 6, double play like that's 8, 2, 6. I told you my head. 862 double play like that in the modern history of baseball, regular season or postseason, never. We went through all of them. So we could talk all day about this. But here's what I think we should do. Let's talk to our friends from TBS about what went on in their world and their booth. Doug, once again, we are in the presence of great because our two visitors to Starkville this week are superstars in our business. So let's welcome in the great Brian Anderson, the voice of baseball on tbs, and the great Lauren Shahadi of MLB Network and the awesome sideline reporter for this series, Brian. Lauren, we are so happy to have.

[Brian Anderson]

You here back in Starkville. Man, what an honor. I feel like this is an annual tradition with you guys. I usually try to farm this off on Frenchie and Ronnie, but it's Lauren and I. You're stuck with the not superstars today. Well, Lauren's a star, but stuck with me.

[Jason Stark]

It's true. Brian, you visited Starkville many times. Lauren this is somehow your first time here. Has anybody briefed you about what you're in store for?

[Lauren Shahadi]

No, but I'm ready. I can't wait.

[Jason Stark]

Hey, I just want you to look around at the panorama here in Starkville, Lauren. Pretty exotic place, don't you think?

[Lauren Shahadi]

I think so. I think so.

[Brian Anderson]

The biggest question is, did Lauren make her bed today? That's what we asked.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Excuse me. Don't doubt.

[Brian Anderson]

You could bounce a quarter on that thing, man.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, let's try that. That'd be good programming.

[Brian Anderson]

Military type.

[Jason Stark]

Listen, there's so much to talk about after game one of this series, but you two both know me so well. You know exactly where I want to start, where Doug wants to start. Let's just say there was a double play in that game. And half the planet is pretty sure I willed it to happen. 8 to 6 to 2 scored as a ground ball double play with absolute mayhem. Breaking out. So, Brian, what was it like to call that play in real time?

[Brian Anderson]

I feel like we got cheated out of an 8-625-double play, honestly, because. Ran down the line so. Because I think the parameters of the search was an 862 double play. But if you would have added the 8,625. I think it would have been the only thing that would have popped up. And if the question. If we've ever seen that before, and then I don't think that would have been the case. So I. I always add my own personal. I said this on the air. I. I called it an 8662U double play because I wanted to account for. I wanted to account for Contreras running all the way down to third base to step on the bag. It's a crazy play. It's just like. Speaks to the beauty of this game that you would see something you've never seen before. We say that all the time. We love this game like we do. And I've never seen that play. And obviously nobody has ever seen that play in the history of baseball. Thanks to your reporting and your research and many others. I mean, we were scrambling to try to figure out how did it happen, what happened, you know, from a production standpoint. So take you behind the curtain of the actual broadcast. The play by play guy, which is me, I'm. I'm using naked eye to call all this. And then when the replays come, that's usually the time for the analyst. So I did not see the ball graze off the wall. So I thought. I thought it was a catch. That's a long way from the booth. And so it just the regular routine of the ball popping out of Felix glove, he makes the catch. It didn't. I didn't see anything odd about that. I just thought it was a catch. And, you know, we do all these games every day. And I will say this, like, I think this is one of the biggest issues that the players had, at least the base runners, and I certainly did as a broadcaster, because our instinct is always to look at the second base umpire. He's making the call. Typically I've called 5,000 games in my life and that's usually who makes that call. So he's actually in my line of sight. Home plate, pitchers mound, center field, second base umpire. He didn't call anything. And so now all hell's breaking loose. Runners are everywhere, the ball's coming in, the ball still live. The really only indication that I got that it was not a catch was when there was no tag applied to Teosca Hernandez by Contreras, and he was still called out. So when he did that, I'm like, oh, it must be a force play. Which now you're going through your mind like, that must not have been a catch then. Well, who called that? So as we turned it over to replay, Frenchie and Ronnie are doing their thing and all the replays clearly showed what happened. But I'm on talkback with the truck saying, like, who called it? Who called it in play? Because not. Not the umpires I looked at. So we were scrambling to search for which umpire. And it turns out after the fact, we, we did find the Image. We have 25 cameras there, but it takes a while to scrub through all that. And it was Chad Fairchild, the left field umpire, who made an amazing call. And had he not called that an out, it would have just blown up that whole scenario. And then the other challenge that we were presented with from a broadcast was as we're watching these replays, it's very clear to us that this is not a catch, a live ball. And this is the double play now. So we kind of know this and we're hearing the comms from New York to the umpires. So we're listening to this unfold like we know it's going to come out. We can't use that on the air, but we know the innings going to end now for us in tv, they start the clock when the inning is over. We got to go to break or else we're going to miss pitches on the back end. So it's like, man, should we stay? So this Is all the dialogue going on as we're trying to unpack this play. And, you know, sure enough, the call came down and it was a double play. And the clock starts and we got to go to commercials, and we don't want to go to commercial because there's so much to talk about now, but we had to. So then, now we push it into the break, and now we find all the other angles that we need. We're going to talk about it immediately. We almost missed, if you notice, the bottom of the fourth. We almost missed the first pitch because we had lingered just enough. But anyway, we got it. And then, of course, Blake Snell just eviscerates the brewers the next day, which I think is the low key, biggest moment of the game because the crowds hopping. But from a TV perspective, that inning went. Lasted like two minutes. We haven't even unpacked all this stuff yet. So we did our best to try to show you all the relevant keys, but that was what was going on under the water line on the television broadcast.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

Chaos on the basis. Chaos in the booth.

[Brian Anderson]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, can you relate? I mean, you're on the radio, so you. And we were trying to explain this to people who. Who have not seen it. I feel sorry for those people.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, just like ba. I mean, I'm. I'm looking with my eyes, you know, I'm seeing. And then I, you know, there's a delay, slight delay. Like, sometimes you get longer delays. So I'm able to kind of move, you know, and look to the right and kind of see. So the real time is kind of like, you know, there's, there's like a, you know, I'd say like a couple of seconds, someone's actually knocking at the door. Hold on a second.

[Jason Stark]

Can we keep this in the show? Like when Drew Carey's dogs charged in.

[Doug Glanville]

Like, yeah, it's like when we have the dogs. Dogs barking. Why do I put the sign on the door? I have no idea. It doesn't mean anything. So I could see. I'm thinking the same thing as like, ba about which umpire are the runners looking at? Because I'm the offensive minded part. Like, as the batter runner, you're trying to look at what's happening here and, you know, free, like, bobbles it.

[Jason Stark]

But the.

[Doug Glanville]

The thing I thought of really quickly and it was something like, Jason, you and I had talked about all these rules and, you know, we used to have that. That trivia question about like all these scenarios and what's the right call? And that helped me A lot to, like, understand these rules. And I knew soon as it hit the glove, regardless, Teosco Hernandez could run home. I ended up focusing on that about, like, that's the mistake. Like, he ran and then, like, went back. And then Will Smith was like, I mean, he. He might have been on the planet Mars at that point. Like, there's no understanding of where he is at because he's like, do I go, But I'm running it to Te Oscar.

[Brian Anderson]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

I don't know.

[Doug Glanville]

I don't even know what umpires call it. The umpires. His hands. The one that I normally look at is just standing there.

[Jason Stark]

Correct.

[Brian Anderson]

You forget, like, which is the one I'm looking at.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. You're just like, okay. So which, you know, and the thing is, like, every time we looked at it again, we saw something else. So you literally could have spent 30 minutes on this. This play in an actual game scenario. And John Chombie was just like, I don't know what's going on. So.

[Brian Anderson]

And he said, that makes me feel better. Right.

[Doug Glanville]

He did say, like, officially, like, oh, well, Jason Stark's here. So this explains everything. I mean, Contreras, like, the genius in all this. The fact that he got the force play and then rent a third because he probably. His third baseman was like, twiddling his thumbs. Like, didn't know what was going on either.

[Brian Anderson]

Yeah.

[Doug Glanville]

So he took it himself. And Will Smith was just jogging to third. Almost like, I don't know what's going on, so I'm just gonna put my body in motion. And I said, like, right away, like, I have never seen anything like this. Like, it is so confusing. And. Yeah, what can you do?

[Jason Stark]

Baseball.

[Doug Glanville]

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[Jason Stark]

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[Doug Glanville]

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[Jason Stark]

Today.

[Brian Anderson]

A mochi Moment from Tara, who.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Writes for years, all my doctor said.

[Jason Stark]

Was eat less and move more, which never worked.

[Lauren Shahadi]

But you know what does?

[Jason Stark]

The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi.

[Lauren Shahadi]

And after losing over 30 pounds, I.

[Jason Stark]

Can say, you're not just another GLP1 source.

[Lauren Shahadi]

You're a life source.

[Jason Stark]

Thanks, Tara.

[Brian Anderson]

I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health.

[Lauren Shahadi]

To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Tara is a mochi member, compensated for her story.

[Jason Stark]

All right, Lauren, tell us which dugout you were in when all this erupted, and what the heck went on in that dugout.

[Lauren Shahadi]

I was in the Brewer's side. And to give you kind of paint the picture, I have a TV right next to me. And to Brian's point, I was watching it live. Well, what you see on TV is so different from what you're seeing live. I couldn't tell what happened. I was completely confused. And I know the rule. I know that once it touches the glove for the first time, you can tag. And then once it hits the ball, the. The wall, it's live ball. But I had no idea in the moment what was going on. And then I just thought, Dino Ibel, one of the best in the business at third base. He was completely on it. He was waving home the whole time to be ace point Chad Fairchild. We. We talk so much about. About umpires when they make the wrong call, but he was absolutely on it, kind of calming the whole situation down. But the confusion allowed enough time to get it to Joey and then get it to home for the Brewers. The defense on the Brewer side was just fantastic last night, but Brian and Ron and Jeff were so good because it was such a human moment. No one had ever seen it before. And they're like, wait, but is this happening? No, but this is happening. And it was such a fan thing. It was just such an entertaining call, but from my perspective, I was completely confused, like everyone else was. And Brian's call at the end as he goes to break.

[Brian Anderson]

What?

[Lauren Shahadi]

That was the call. That was the out cue. And he's so human.

[Jason Stark]

Is that what they were saying in that Brewer's dugout too? What just happened?

[Lauren Shahadi]

Yeah, they were watching, going like this, and you heard. You saw Sal Frehlick. Jason, if you saw his mouth, he goes, what the just happened? That was what he said. He mouthed those words, and so now it's become a meme. Yeah, Sal, we're all with you. What the just happened?

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, Doug, I've monopolized the question here. I'M sorry, it is your turn.

[Doug Glanville]

I'm just, you know, fanning out and being on here. We're all panelists today, you know, like, we. You see something that's like, like, unbelievable and. And you have to piece it together like a mosaic, you know, like, you don't, you know, you have no perspective until, like, you finally step back.

[Brian Anderson]

It's funny to me how the. The reaction today and I've been. My Instagram feeds are just, like, being bombarded, but, like, there's a group of people that are just, you know, so angry. Like, how could any of it, like, name whoever. How could Te Oscar, how could Will Smith, how could Brian Anderson, how can Jeff write? It's like, how could they. It's like, yeah, because this has never.

[Jason Stark]

Happened before ever, ever, ever.

[Brian Anderson]

So, I mean, like, play by play, announcers were all commiserating. Like, man, I don't know. My brain was stretching out of my ears at that moment. Like, I don't know what I'm watching right now. I'm watching two umpires raise their thumbs up. One umpire is a safe sign. The other three are making no signals whatsoever. Nobody's doing anything. So it's like, it's comical today. Like the. The Monday morning quarterbacks.

[Jason Stark]

Like, this is easy.

[Brian Anderson]

It was an easy play. I mean, he should have done this. He should have done that.

[Jason Stark]

He should have done that. Like, okay, yeah, okay.

[Lauren Shahadi]

You.

[Brian Anderson]

You stick with that story. No problem.

[Jason Stark]

Mr. AI play by play guy calls this. I want to see how my Lord.

[Brian Anderson]

Like, and Te Oscar, you know, he's not a great baserunner, he's not a great right fielder, but, man, he's a clutch hitter in my mind. And I want to ask Doug this too. I'm going to turn the tables and interview you, Doug, because you've been there. I feel like Te Oscar thought he left too soon and went to re tag because when he saw the ball pop up, like, I feel like maybe he didn't know that you go on first contact. He saw the ball pop up and he panicked because his initial break from third was good, accurate.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah.

[Brian Anderson]

And then he stopped and like, oh, oh, crap. I gotta go retouch. That's what I thought started the whole thing. So then, like, okay, what if he hadn't done that? If he just goes in and scores now there's a force of third still. Like, let's say he does score and they probably don't make a throw. Will they probably throw to third? I don't know what would have happened. But if Chad Fairchild does Not make that safe call, which is 250ft from play, by the way, and down the left field line. But if he doesn't make that safe call, I'm not sure how they adjudicate that.

[Doug Glanville]

You know, it's about placing runners and like, because that's the thing. Like, that's why the balls, when they have to place runners, why that's so difficult. Right? Because, you know, if they're, they try to avoid that as much as possible. Because as the runner, like, you know, just say it's something basic like a trap in right field. And based on the call you would have tagged, or based on the call you would have advanced. And your decision is predicated on what the umpire is signaling you. And so to kind of unravel that and like, estimate, well, he would have been at third. And that's already complicated. But then you put this whole crazy element on top of it about another umpire, which you're not normally used to, right down the line and, and then you're, you know, you're not naturally looking that way. And I don't know if, like, the left field has to like, run out into center field, you know, you, you have to be seen and it's just not your, your natural. I, you know, where you're going to go, so. But yeah, I think Tasker, you know, I know a lot of people do even, like, major league runners like, make that kind of mistake. Like, it's not him catching it and controlling it, it's hitting the glove. But then, like, the play was so close. Like, did it hit the wall on the fly? Like, I mean, you may not be able to see it. This is 400ft from home. So, I mean, it's, it's bananas. So, yeah, I think it's just a hard play. But yes, if he did make a mistake, it's that once he tagged, even if it was like, all right, I mean, and by the way, like, why would you, you know, why would you leave early on a ball 400ft away? The guy's jumping, right?

[Brian Anderson]

So it's either gonna be a home or a catch.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah, you, like, so if you did tag and then you kind of go back, it's probably partly because he thought he dropped it or whatever happened. And either way, he could have been right if he just went on the first time, right? Because if it was a ball and play, he just keeps going. If it's a tag, you just keep going. Like there's no. But why was he freaked out? Because it made perfect sense to Be freaked out.

[Brian Anderson]

Exactly. I was freaked out. And everybody else.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. My hair was on fire for four innings. So we spent half the show talking about one play. I want to talk about the ninth inning. It was so loud that my ears would literally ring. So, Lauren, I want to ask you, how loud did it feel on the field? Plus, I'm guessing you already had Blake Snell lined up, and now the brewers are gonna win. So what you're gonna do if they.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Come back and win, just to take you inside. Kind of my prep. I already knew what I wanted to ask Blake. I had a million questions because I wanted to know about that darn card he looks at. I mean, it's. Oh. To his looks at that card. I wanted to know about the binder. He carries a binder. He's a student of the game. He's dreamt of this his whole life. Early in his career, he got, you know, kind of told that he could only go five. That was the moniker on him. And he doesn't like that one bit. And he proved it. So I had so many things that I wanted to ask him. And then in the ninth, I'm seeing Isaac Collins walk, and I'm thinking, amid all the crazy, these guys are having patient at bats, right? Isaac and then Christian Yelich and then Jackson with a nice hit, and who was it? Jake Bowers against the fastball. So I'm thinking, oh, my gosh. And then I'm thinking, what do I want to ask them in a walk off scenario? And I've been told I've learned from, you know, so many people what you do in a walk off scenario, just as a sideline reporter. And the consensus is you always stay in that moment, Right? So I was taught you always stay. So if it was Bryce Turing and he hits a walk off bases loaded, what are you trying to do? When you did, you know, it went through. Did you. You know, you pointed to the crowd. Who were you pointing at? You said, stay in that moment all the time. So I was just trying to watch with my eyes and just formulate and have natural back and forth if that were to happen. But, yeah, it was super loud, and I was just hoping that I could collect my thoughts after and ask the right questions in the moment.

[Jason Stark]

So, ba. What are the challenges of trying to capture that moment in real time?

[Brian Anderson]

Well, I mean, for us, that's the fun part. I mean, I think. I think. I don't think of those moments as the challenging part of this job. That's the reward. I think, you know, it's the Tuesday and April in Pittsburgh in the second game of a three game series. That's kind of the, the moments that are challenging. Like I think Willie Nelson had the great line. They don't pay me to play the music, they pay me to get on the bus. The hard parts of the job are, are everything but what it was culminating to. Because from a play by play perspective and from a production perspective, we're all, everybody has their assignments, you know, and we're all doing our assignments and that's what we live for and want to do and be able to chronicle history in that way. And you know, we don't want to mess that up. So there's an intensity, there's a pressure. You know, you go to a place where of incredible intensified concentration. And that's the fun part, you know, like it took me three hours to go to sleep after the game. I couldn't turn my brain off because the adrenaline rush and you, you know, we're not playing the game either. That's a different kind of adrenaline that only Doug could speak to. But you know, for us, we want to make sure we do right by the subjects on the field, the game itself, the atmosphere. And so there's just pressure to make sure we're chronicling all these moments in a proper way. So I guess that would be the challenge. But because we do it so often and in our case in multiple sports, you know, that's kind of like why we do it. That's why we do what we do is to be in those moments. Most of the time nothing happens. That's why last year in the, in the alcs, especially game four, was such an unusual ALCS because you may get one dramatic home run a series and we had four in an hour. That was like every call, you know, I always do the scale of like how loud and energetic I'm going to be and you're thinking, well I'll back it down one click in case something, the next thing happens. But I was like already to a 12 by time we even got to David Fry's walk off home run last year. So those are the moments that, you know, when you look back at your career, if something dramatic happens and it didn't last night, you know, like, like a walk off. But if something dramatic happens, you definitely remember those moments. I can remember like Roy Holiday's no hitter like it was yesterday and the smells and the sights and the. Just the feeling I had in my body. And then just that brought came up last night because Blake Snell Was, at least in my opinion, as dominant as Roy Holiday was when he threw a no hitter in 2010, which we just celebrated the 15th anniversary of that. I had not seen a pitching performance like that until last night. And he didn't have a no hitter, but it felt like it because it was facing the minimum and all of that. So that's the cool part of this business.

[Jason Stark]

Okay, I have a question for all three of you. The two managers in this series, Dave Roberts and Pat Murphy, they're such interesting people, such smart people, such great leaders. Every day, for every game, you all get to talk to them away from the crowds, away from the mics. I'd love for you to tell people what they're like and what those conversations are like. Lauren, let's start with you.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Well, they're both wonderful baseball men and they've been in this game for their entire life. I'll share a conversation that we had yesterday. Brian and I were in the manager meetings and Pat Murphy was just giving love to Dave Roberts, and he said, I don't think people understand how difficult his job is. You know, you're handed all these super duper stars, and he said, it's like Secretariat, right? You're expected to win every single time, except there's 12 other horses in the race. So there's a mutual respect there. And I think we all, we often fall into that, right? Dave Roberts has this super team, and on paper, coming into the season, he was expected to do the biggest things. But that's difficult, right? I remember talking to him in spring training and he said, everyone wants to be told they're pretty on this team. So it's managing personalities. And then you have Pat Murphy, who has all of these guys who have worked so hard to get to this point. I was watching Andrew Vaughn just take a second to look out, and his career was just at the bottom of the barrel. And now he's. He's living it up on the biggest stage. And Pat Murphy's been able to motivate them. And it's just a different. It's a different dynamic, but it's motivating guys and managing people. And it's not just managing a baseball game, right? We talk to all these managers. They are managing people and families constantly. It's not just the season, it's over the winter, too.

[Jason Stark]

Brian, I know how well, you know, Murph, tell us about that guy and what your conversations are like every day.

[Brian Anderson]

I'll say one thing too, that it's an absolute fact that when Lauren Shahadi is on our crew. Those managers get very chatty quick. They turn into 16 year old boys and they're like, oh, what do you want to know? As soon as she walks in there, it's like, okay, now we got to deal with, with these guys. So that's pretty much always the case. Doug and Boog, the radio side, they go in after us too. So it's all in that same window. And I would say for me anyway, and this is the same in the NBA and even to some level in college basketball at the NCAA tournament or March Madness, we, I feel like those moments, not for everybody, but for most coaches and managers, that's their little bit of like time alone, talking baseball with people who are going to be on a national broadcast, but also just kind of no ball and talk ball. You know, you see Ron Darling, Jeff Francourt walk in and Lauren and they're just, they're, their shoulders go down and things are just a little calmer for them. And that's probably the only 15 minutes of the day when they can just sit back in their chair, cross the legs and like riff a little bit. And sometimes it feels like therapy sessions, but, and with Murphy, he can be that like his 15 minutes can turn into 30 quick. But Murph's forever interested. And I tell college students all the time who are in this business, like, don't try to be interesting, try to be interested and if you're interested, you'll be interesting. And Murph is the embodiment of that because he's constantly curious and asking and wanting to know this, that and the other. I guarantee you today he's going to want to know how that all unfolded, how we called that moment yesterday. And he's just very curious that way. He wants to know about people. So I think that serves him well. It gives him a lot of information. It allows him entry points into people's lives, whether it be us, which I would be on the outer circle, you know, the broadcasters or those on his inner circle, his club. It allows him entry points that can, allows him to diffuse, it allows him to prop up if a player needs that also allows them maybe more importantly to tear down with humor if they need that too. He's kind of notorious for the. Oh, I guess you don't have to run to first. I forgot you're friendly with the owner. Matter of fact, next time why don't you just walk to first base? So he, he's famous for like those things, you know, you've heard of his, his check game which is the whiteboard up in the coach's office. They had. They play. It's called the check game. And anytime you talk about yourself or put yourself in the middle, that's a check. So it's like. And everybody's on the board, including the owner. He's got the most checks. As a matter of fact, you know, he'll drop, I'm flying on my plane somewhere. He goes, oh, that's a check. You got a private plane.

[Jason Stark]

You're a big shot.

[Brian Anderson]

So it's a fun way, comedic way to check everybody's ego. And I think Murph has done an amazing job at that. And I think he knows he's very fortunate to be in this place, but also, he brings a lot to the table.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, what's your favorite thing about those. Those moments, those conversations?

[Doug Glanville]

It's like, to me, it's just the opportunity to ask, you know, any question and, you know, kind of find the curiosity in the room. Feel like I've. And I think what happens is, when you do these series, as you've seen them a lot over time, you tend to try to think you don't want to ask the same kinds of questions, right? You want to do something different. And even though the, you know, you still want to know what happened last night in the next game, there's an element of, like, let me just try to ask something different about this. Like, I asked Craig Council about, you know, the Mariners game. You know, just try to understand, you know, like, okay, when. When Kerry Carpenter's 5 for 11 off of Kirby with five home runs, is that enough of a sample to be like, do you pitch to him? You know, so we have fun with that, but I think with Dave Roberts, I'm blown away at how well he does manage the Stars and how much he has to acquiesce to their desire to not get kind of bored almost, right? Like, you know, Otani needs to pitch and Bets needs to play shortstop. And he. He's like, okay, you know, like, let's do this. Like, we have. We have wiggle room. I trust that we'll still win 92 games, you know, and they'll just do stuff. You know, Mookie Betts talked to him yesterday, and he was like, yeah, when you really think about this whole shortstop thing is totally insane. Like, the fact that, you know, it kind of went with this. He's like, this is, you know, Mel Rojas. All the, you know, not Mel Miguel Rojas. These guys are, you know, obviously established shortstop. So I'm kind of marvel at that as his ability to manage personalities. And then I think, you know, Murph is just very, you know, he's just open about things, and he's direct, and he doesn't really like the establishment, you know, like, hence he throws away silverware after he eats and stuff like that. No, he does, like, he just does some, you know, things that just are different. And I remember doing the press conference during the practice before the series against the Cubs, and he spent the first 15 minutes introducing people like, oh, I haven't met you before. And then he got us all. And in the end, like, I met all these new people that I normally wouldn't know.

[Jason Stark]

But.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. One question I have for Lauren, though, is especially this unique preparation for reporting. I'm curious about how, like, you take the information from yesterday and then decide which questions to prioritize for today. Like, you. You're taking. Because I'm like, I want to ask about that crazy play. I want to ask about Blake stuff, you know, Like, I'm curious, like, how you actually decide, like, you know, what comes first.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Just to your point about Pat, he did it after the loss last night. He had everyone introduce themselves after a loss, which is even. Even crazier, and just speaks to the human. But, yeah, there are things that I sat like, Brian. I couldn't turn my brain off, and I was thinking, what do we want to prioritize today? And one of the things I thought of, and we might do it in the open, we might do it later in the game, was Shohei Ohtani. And his. He's batting, I think it's 158 this postseason. But he's changed the complexion of two games just being intentionally walked, Right? So that presence of alone has changed. Two games, one in the division series and one last night. If he doesn't get on, then Mookie Betts doesn't get on. His patience. And that was the difference in this game. It's unbelievable. And you talk to some of the guys on the Brewer side, and they say he's looming everywhere. We always know where he is, and we know that we're going to face him on the mound sometime soon. So it's kind of. It's kind of those things that I took from last night that I'll try and bring back today. And during the half innings, I'll ask our producer, Sponge, who's amazing, I'll say, can you open me up to the booth? And the guys are really good. I'll say, do you like this here? And they'll say yes or no. So we have a running conversation, you know, maybe not here, maybe later in the inning, maybe later in, in the game. So we're in constant communication. It just kind of flows better. And Brian has said if you throw back to Ron, you know, say hey Ron, about this pitching and then it just creates a conversation, you know, which, which, which is a better watch. It's an, it's an entertaining watch.

[Jason Stark]

Man, this has roared by way too fast. Way too fast. Can I just ask you guys one last thing? I think we all share a love of October and what we see every night in these games, but you two have such a wide range of experiences to compare it to. I mean, Brian, you've called the NBA playoffs and the NCAA hoops and the French Open. So many big. Would you describe how calling the baseball postseason compares with those other massive events?

[Brian Anderson]

It's overwhelming to think about it. You know, I think I would, the 16 year old me would probably curl up at a ball and go hide in the corner if he knew I was going to have to do all this. It's, it's total honor and a privilege and you know, again like I just go back to when you're in those biggest moments moments and it really is, I, I don't want to sound flippant about it. It's the easiest part of the job but it's also the most pressure you feel. But the execution of the play by play, when every pitch matters, when every moment matters, that's the easy part. The hard part is when it doesn't and you're having to. So if you want to talk tennis like, like center and Alcaraz, the five and a half hour final, one of the all time greatest grand slam ever at Roland Garros was epic. But the 30 matches I called prior to that, that was the hard part. The five and a half hour was no problem. That was great because you're kind of in every moment. So every major sport that I cover anyway and I don't do the ones that like I'm not comfortable doing. I don't do the NHL. I briefly did the NFL and pulled out of that because you know, I just, I'm not for that. I'm not into that. But I am into everything I do. And whether it's a golf major or a tennis major or a postseason baseball or the NBA All Star game or NBA playoffs, it really is the same thing. Now there may be more time to add some layers in baseball, some storytelling bits, but it really is like about that moment. And you can never, you know, I used to over prep and through middle of my career, I'm like, wait a minute. I need to make sure that I'm just staying focused on the moments that are in front of me because the moments are I'm gonna know nuggets about every player just because we do this all the time. But it's really about like, what is the vibe, what is the body language, what we're trying to show, like, what is Blake Trinen feeling right now? What is Bryce Tourang feeling? What are all these baserunners feeling? And this double play, they're all like got the panic set in. So those are the things I'm highly tuned towards. And that doesn't change no matter the sport.

[Jason Stark]

Lauren, what about you? Is there something about these games and postseason baseball that stands apart from everything else you've been lucky enough to do?

[Lauren Shahadi]

Jason, Brian and I had a conversation, I think it was in the division series and I said, can you believe we get to do this? I mean, Brian was holding his camera and doing play by play while he was holding his camera. That's how he learned the art. And I, my first job was at $9,000 in Minot, North Dakota. I would carry my camera into Saskatchewan, Canada and shoot JV ice hockey. And if you miss one goal, you're out, you're done. And I thought, oh my gosh, there were so many days I get teary eyed about it that I dreamt of these days.

[Jason Stark]

I.

[Lauren Shahadi]

And it is not lost on me. It is not lost on me. But it's not about us and you know, it's about the game. But I speak for myself and Brian, I guess, you know, we are so, so grateful and we just want to do right by the players and the sport.

[Jason Stark]

We could talk to you all day, but we all have another post season baseball game. We better get to Jason.

[Lauren Shahadi]

I know you by the way. Were you on the phone after that play at asking Elias all sorts of questions and they hang up. They wanted to hang up. I know.

[Jason Stark]

I don't know if you know Katie Sharp, Lauren. She's right from Baseball Reference, but you know, she'll go through their entire play by play file for me. Our modern era. So did I reach out to her? I did. Was she in the middle of dinner? She was. Was she happy to hear from me? She didn't seem that happy. But you know, she loves it like we love it. And she said, all right, give me an hour, leave me alone. Right. Okay. So it took a long time, even after she got to it. So I'm in the brewers clubhouse and Reese Hoskins says to me, you seem like you love that strange stuff. Has this ever happened? And as he's asking me, Katie is texting me. I said, all right, let me read it to you. So perfect, the whole thing. Seventeen other times of we had an 8, 6, 2, double play in the modern era, but 16 of them, the center fielder caught the ball. And then there was this other play a hundred years ago, I'm texting, emailing 17 people.

[Brian Anderson]

Well, your article was great. And by the way, that. That was good therapy for me to read this morning because, you know, we. Our biggest fear is that we leave, you know, morsels on the table, but there's no way we can. You know, we're trying to, like, get these things by the end of the broadcast, which we can't, but you can, and you did, and you were able to. I don't. You're amazing, Jason, that you're able to. To type out that kind of piece with such artistry and facts and interesting tidbits in such a short time. I don't think you get enough credit, too, for really bringing. Bring. And now it's. Now it's. It's for all time. Because it's always going to be the record of that, you know, all of us, whether it's Doug on the radio, Lauren and I on television, but your accounting of that is going to be for the record for all time. And people think we get all this time to hash this out and pour through these things and, you know, eight hours after the fact, we're all moving on to the next thing. And that's our accounting of that moment, you know, as individuals. And so there's pressure in that, but there's also great. There's just a great feeling of a craft and a success and like a little bit of an atta boy and atta girl. And, you know, when you do it, like, when you're trusted with it, first of all, and then when you actually pull it off.

[Jason Stark]

Thank you. I think we can all relate to this because we have these jobs that we have people expect 100 years ago.

[Doug Glanville]

That was on my birthday, by the way. So that was kind of cool.

[Jason Stark]

Happy birthday to you, Doug. Yeah, people, I had somebody in my office wish me a Merry Christmas when this play happened.

[Doug Glanville]

The only time this play ever happened, it was on my birthday.

[Jason Stark]

Listen, we all should move on with the rest of our lives, but thank you so much for taking time. Crazy schedules to come hang out with us, you both deserve statues in the Starkville town square. Doug, you're on top of that, correct?

[Doug Glanville]

I always am, even with my supply chain issues.

[Brian Anderson]

Lauren's gonna need a dj, though, for coming to Starkville. The dj. You got to get a dj.

[Lauren Shahadi]

Absolutely.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, you're on top of that too, right? You're in charge of all of this. It's funny how none of it ever happens, but Doug is on top of it.

[Doug Glanville]

No, because it's virtual. It's all virtual.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. Brian, Lauren, you guys are the best. I'm sorry it ran a little long, but we love talking to you.

[Lauren Shahadi]

It's a pleasure.

[Brian Anderson]

It's great to be with you. Great to be with both of you guys. And always, Lauren.

[Doug Glanville]

See you at the yard.

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[Jason Stark]

Strange but true, Doug. One of our favorite things about baseball is it makes no sense. Just like the double play we've been talking about. The grounded into double play where the ball never hit the ground. Okay, so sometimes in baseball stuff doesn't even make mathematical sense. It's kind of like our hotel where we punch in a floor in the elevator, but then the elevator takes us to a different floor every single time. It's so bizarre. So that's kind of strange but true. But the lack of math.

[Doug Glanville]

What's happening? But it's. We're teleporting.

[Jason Stark]

Apparently we are so the lack of mathematical sense in our sport is something we're going to be all over in this strange but true segment. Because something happened last week in Game 3 of the Phillies Dodgers series that literally had never happened before in any postseason game. I'm not making this up. Let's hear it.

[Brian Anderson]

It's clock violation here. This is going to be on Brandon Marsh. So he'll have a strike on his at that to start the at best, right? So the batter has to be attentive to the Pitcher by the 8 second mark on the countdown clock. And home plate umpire Nick Lyn, watching the clock, comes out, taps on his wrist, which is the indication Marsh is upset.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, I think he's upset because the bat boy was out there.

[Brian Anderson]

It's a strike on Marsh and it's 0 and 1. Bases loaded, two outs and it's oh two. Got him. Anthony Bonda turns the worm here in the fifth strands. The base is loaded.

[Jason Stark]

Brian Anderson's getting more airtime in this show than us, Doug.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Jason Stark]

He's everywhere. Everywhere. Might have seemed hard to follow that. Let's review what happened. The bases were loaded, it was the fifth inning. Alec Baum, the Phillies had just gotten intentionally walked to bring Brandon Marsh to the plate. So he's heading for the plate. Bowman dropped his stuff next to the batter's box. The bat boys out there gathering it all up as Jeff Rancour mentioned. So Brandon Marsh, she just politely waits for the bat boy to vacate the area. And how did he get rewarded? The home plate hump. Nick Lentz slapped a pitch clock violation on him. So he. Because he's just being polite and there's stuff strewn everywhere and he's not looking at the pitcher. It's strike one. So here's the at. Strike one is a violation. No pitches needed to be thrown. Strike two. He took a strike. Strike three. He swings and misses at a slider. And Doug, I just want to make sure. Have you been doing the math?

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, it's baseball. It's always part of baseball. We always say this all the time. Two strikes and you're out.

[Jason Stark]

We don't say that.

[Doug Glanville]

We say that a lot.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. So, okay, you're messing with me. How many strikes in the strike hat you know the correct answer? It's three.

[Doug Glanville]

Typical Three.

[Jason Stark]

Right. So how many pitches should need to be thrown to accomplish a strikeout?

[Brian Anderson]

Doug?

[Doug Glanville]

Well, three, unless you count one twice for some reason.

[Jason Stark]

He's right. So it takes three pitches for a strikeout, but how many pitches were thrown.

[Doug Glanville]

During this strikeout, one less than that. Two.

[Jason Stark]

Two is right. Doug, what is happening in our sport? Shouldn't this be impossible?

[Doug Glanville]

It should be. And thanks to the new pitch clock or pitch timer, within the last few years, math has become obsolete. We've eliminated math and tradition here because you can strike out with two strikes. You can actually just strike out without throwing one pitch. If he gets three straight pitch clock violations, I don't think that's happened yet. Has that happened yet? But if Brandon Marsh decided to suntan in the on deck circle, he probably would have struck out by just clock. It would just run out. So that I'm waiting for that to happen. That, that's, that's gonna happen one day.

[Brian Anderson]

Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

It didn't happen. Let me tell you what did happen. So this thing goes down and now I start getting texts from my friends, hey, has there ever been a two pitch strikeout in the, in a postseason game? And like, how much stuff. Can I ask my friends from stats Doc, but.

[Doug Glanville]

Oh, yeah, at least this one is only a couple. Probably a couple years old, right? Because.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, yeah, that helped.

[Doug Glanville]

But they got it.

[Jason Stark]

Like they've got to. I mean, somebody has to keep track of every pitch. Cat violation, pitch clock violation, every bad. Every pitch. So I asked him, so how many two pitch strikeouts do you think there have ever been in postseason history other than this one? I bet you'll never guess how many.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, I know we're talking about three, two. And I'm just going to jump right to zero. Since we're counting down, I'm gonna skip one.

[Jason Stark]

Zero. Zero is right. Only in baseball. Yeah. Only in Starkville is zero. The most important number of every show. Is that good? Is that bad? It's baseball. It's. It's the best.

[Doug Glanville]

I mean, Sesame street used to make all those songs about numbers. So we need to. We need to like make our theme song the zero. Because I know they must have done a zero. You know, they'd have a. They'd re. They'd make a jingle. It was at the number three or the letter Z. I know there's a zero out there, so I'm pulling it up on YouTube or something. And maybe it needs to be our theme song. Yeah.

[Jason Stark]

If there are 0 cookies, you don't want to incur the wrath of Cookie Monster. So. I don't know.

[Doug Glanville]

Sandwich, two peanut butter sandwiches, zero.

[Jason Stark]

Peanut butter sandwich. Zero would be the wrong answer in that case. Doug, have I mentioned yet this week that we have a Starkville hotline? I don't know how Hot. It actually is. Maybe we should attach a thermometer to it. I do know we're getting a lot of calls these days from you, our loyal listeners. And then you know what we do? We play those calls right here on this show. It is quite a concept if you're listening and you're thinking, hey, I would like to do that. Here's what would make that possible. You would need a great baseball question or maybe a trivia question or just some fun question that only me and or Doug can answer. I don't even want to think about what that might be. And then you call us at 267-227-9867. Okay. People have been doing that and it's been fun listening to these and answering these. And we have another fun one this week. It's from John from Philadelphia. Doug, it's kind of wild that there are people out there who, I don't know how to explain this, but they seem like they think like we think about the weird stuff that goes on in baseball. So John was thinking like that. Let's hear what he had for us. Hey, Jason. Hey, Doug. This is John Kopp. I'm from Philadelphia. I have a question for you. Kyle Schwarber and Kyle Rowley each finished the season with an OPS over.900, but they had batting averages under.250. So I was curious, what is the lowest batting average for a player who finished the season with an OPS of.900 or better? Or also what's the widest margin between a players batting average and an OPS above.900? It's kind of a way to look at the worst batting average you can have and still have an excellent season. So I was curious if you guys knew the answer or could find that out. All right, appreciate it. Thanks.

[Doug Glanville]

Bye.

[Jason Stark]

You're just curious.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah, I like it.

[Jason Stark]

Doug, you can't be curious unless like this guy actually noticed that the slash lines for those two guys, Big Dumper and the Schwabino, do not make sense. Do they make sense to you?

[Doug Glanville]

I mean, yeah, in some ways the modern era of like power and on base percentage, not necessarily batting average. So I mean, yeah, when you hit 60 home runs and 50 something 55 or whatever Schwarber ended, that is pretty amazing. Although Schwarber, you know, he had decent average this year. He had. Then he hit under.200 a couple years ago. It's close.197.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's so addressed that.

[Doug Glanville]

Yeah. But yeah, you have to have a lot of home runs.

[Jason Stark]

He had 240 this year.

[Doug Glanville]

240. Okay.

[Jason Stark]

So. So John wanted to know if this had ever happened. And guess what, Doug? It has. I. Yeah, when I heard the question, I could not wait to do the research. It was worth the trip down the baseball reference rabbit hole.

[Doug Glanville]

Well, I have one thought. I don't know the numbers, but I know someone who, you know, makes it really interesting every year, and that is Dalton Varsho. This guy, everything he hits is extra bases. And yeah, he doesn't get any other hits. So I thought, I know he was up there, but maybe not 950. But he's got some interesting numbers.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. It's so funny that you meant that you mentioned this because I did start doing research on that earlier this year. Dalton Varsho. At one point he had an average under 200. But in Ops over 900, that is not possible. It didn't last very long, but I was on top of it. Okay, but it just didn't last long enough for me to ever get a note out of it. And he didn't get enough plate appearances to be considered a full time player. So he doesn't make this list. But I found five players in history with 900 OPS average below.250. So 240s, 2 30s. It's a great list. If you're ready, here it comes. There was Mickey Teddy, 95, 238. Then Kyle Schwaber, this year, 240. Harmon, Killer Brew, 1962, hit.243. Then Cal Raleigh, this year, 247. And you've been waiting for this name. Adam Dunn, in 2005 hit.250 and 47. So any list with Adam Dunn and Harmon Killebrew, that's epic in its own right. Charlie Manuel tells me all the time. He sees a lot of killer brew. And Schwarber. Adam Dunn, one of my favorite, most unique players ever. And Mickey Tem apparently was also our kind of player. We just didn't know it at that time. But John also has something else, Doug. He said, how many guys in history have ever had a bigger gap between their OPS and their batting average than Cal Raleigh and Kyle Schwaber? Doug, how many? What do you think?

[Doug Glanville]

I don't know. It sounds kind of zero. Like, I mean, I mean that's a big gap, like 700 points or something.

[Jason Stark]

Yeah. So once again, zero is the correct answer. So Cal Raleigh's batting average was.247, but his OPS was.948. That's. So you're right. That's over 700 points.701. And Kyle Schwaber had a.928 OPS and a.240 average. So he was at.688. That ranks number two. Think about it like this. Had never, we've never seen gaps like that ever in the history of baseball ball. And these two guys did it in the same year. So how many had ever done it before that? 0. 0. So I, I cannot wait for this Starkville Zero Hero donut shop to open. Doug, keep us posted on the construction progress there, will you?

[Doug Glanville]

Absolutely. I look forward to the statue out in front of it of a giant zero donut. I think it's very appropriate.

[Jason Stark]

It's very appropriate. It's our magic number here. And I'm going to say this again. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's our thing and it's a business. Okay, that's gonna do it for this week's show. Doug, thanks for playing. Thanks to Brian Anderson and Lauren Shahadi for visiting us. Thanks to John from Philadelphia for calling our hotline. Thanks to the mayor of Starkville, Brian Smith, for producing us and putting up with us. And thanks to you for listening. Call our hotline with your fun baseball questions. That number once again, 267-227-9867 or whatever that thing Doug has invented. Doug, what is it again?

[Doug Glanville]

I think it's. I keep changing each time, but it's bop, bap, zoom. That's how you can easily remember the phone number.

[Jason Stark]

Easily? Yeah. We can't even remember. But I'm sure you can. Or you can always email us at starkville@the athletic.com and Doug and I, we'll see you soon. How can you grow your business from.

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[Lauren Shahadi]

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