The Roundtable | Are the Yankees in trouble down 2-0 to Toronto?

Summary

The Windup: The Roundtable | Are the Yankees in Trouble Down 2-0 to Toronto?

Episode 182 | October 6, 2025
Hosts: Grant Brisbee, Andy McCullough, Sam Miller
Podcast: The Athletic – The Windup

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Grant Brisbee, Andy McCullough, and Sam Miller gather for their regular Roundtable discussion to dissect the Yankees’ perilous postseason position after dropping the first two games to Toronto. The trio also explores ballpark atmospheres in the playoffs, the psychology and etiquette of fan trash talk, current bullpen and rotation challenges across several teams, and trends in prospect development and pitch tipping. The episode balances deep baseball analysis with wit and personal anecdotes, making for a lively, insightful conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Playoff Atmosphere: Ballpark Rankings and Fan Engagement

• Ballpark Noise and Home Field Advantage
  • Andy describes the wide variance in playoff park environments based on his experience at over 20 postseason ballparks, citing Minute Maid Park and Yankee Stadium as notably raucous, though he finds Yankee Stadium’s endless sound cues “awful” compared to the more enjoyable noise at Dodger Stadium.
  • “At Yankee Stadium, there is...some sort of cue after every pitch...There is no letup. It's awful. Like, it's genuinely awful. I really dislike it.” – Andy McCullough (05:21).
• What Makes a Great Playoff Crowd
  • Sam values crowds that know when to get on their feet, lamenting the lost art of the two-strike stand-up and praising Seattle and Toronto for their lively, knowledgeable crowds this postseason.
  • “If your pitcher had two strikes on the batter, you stood and that's kind of gone...Cubs are a great stand up crowd. They stand up all the time.” – Sam Miller (08:03).
  • Grant ties this fan behavior to “knowing ball,” noting the tension that comes from a hyper-invested home crowd.
• Crowd Energy as Double-Edged Sword
  • When the crowd is deeply keyed in, anxiety and disappointment can spread quickly to the team during tense moments.

2. The Yankees’ Plight: Down 2-0 to Toronto

• The Nature of the Yankees’ Losses
  • Andy: The Yankees’ back-to-back blowout losses go beyond “flushable games,” provoking pessimism among the fanbase as they head to New York.
  • “When it happens two games in a row, it's no longer a flushing problem. You're being flushed right into the offseason.” – Andy McCullough (15:25).
• Bullpen Failures and Series Analysis
  • Sam: It’s not just an issue with starters—the Yankees’ bullpen has looked lost, compounding the team’s woes.
  • But he also calls for calm, noting that playoff series are designed to test the home team; losing two on the road isn’t a death sentence.
  • “The worry with the Yankees is like, well, what if the bullpen's terrible? And the bullpen was terrible. Like, that's the kind of blowout you don't want to...lose.” – Sam Miller (15:35).
• Historic Comeback Potential
  • The group references series like the 1996 Yankees-Braves and 2012 Giants-Reds as reminders that 2-0 deficits aren’t always fatal, but admit such comebacks are rare.
• Trash Talk and Fan Anxiety
  • Reflections on the tendency for modern fans (and analysts like David Ortiz) to prematurely declare series over, with Sam and Andy critiquing the performative negativity and trash talk that dominates online baseball conversations.
  • “We live in a country no longer guided by the guardrails of shame...It's like Padres fans making fun of the Dodgers when they're up 2 to 1 or something like that. It could go really sideways for you.” – Andy McCullough (21:54).

3. The Bullpen Picture: Dodgers, Brewers, and Beyond

• Dodgers’ Bullpen: Sasaki as a Stabilizing Force?
  • Discussion centers on Sasaki’s transformation from a wild card to a strike-throwing, high-leverage closer, and whether that’s enough to settle the Dodgers’ unsettled bullpen.
  • “Since he joined the bullpen, in his last three outings, he has thrown 86 strikes. That's just a different pitcher with a different plan...He's in control, he's confident, and he's getting results.” – Sam Miller (35:26).
  • Andy is cautious about overexposing Sasaki to multi-inning, high-pressure work, suggesting he should remain a dedicated closer for now.
• Ranking Playoff Bullpens
  • Sam’s off-the-cuff bullpen rankings: Cubs, Phillies, Mariners, then Dodgers/Tigers and Brewers/Blue Jays further down (41:57).
• Brewers’ Rotational Chess
  • The Brewers’ rotation is short due to injuries and underperformance, leading to “crew ball” strategies and opener usage—a challenge for sustaining a playoff run.

4. Modern Prospect Development

• Rapid Rise of College Players
  • Sam notes the astonishing number of 2024 draft picks contributing in the majors by 2025, reflecting how elite college programs’ data-driven approaches accelerate development.
  • “Six of the top 20 picks in the 2024 draft were in the majors this year. And, like, five of them were pretty good.” – Sam Miller (27:58).
• Organizational Shifts
  • Grant comments on the Giants looking at college managers due to these institutions’ advanced analytical labs surpassing some MLB teams.

5. Pitch Tipping: The New Arms Race

• Rise in Pitch Tipping Awareness
  • Andy summarizes a collaborative Athletic project on why pitch tipping is more scrutinized in the pitch-com era, with teams now focusing on subtle body language rather than catcher’s signs.
  • “Once they got rid of signs...they were just studying the body of the pitcher and with cameras and everything, they can really, really do it.” – Andy McCullough (46:15).
• Gamesmanship and Bluffing
  • Many supposed “tips” are bluffs intended to induce pitcher paranoia, adding psychological complexity to the game.

6. Phillies and Postseason Narratives

• Why Don’t the Phillies Have a “Dog” Reputation?
  • Andy wonders why the Phillies aren’t seen as postseason underperformers like the Dodgers, considering recent NLCS chokes.
  • Sam answers that their regular-season records haven’t set grand expectations and their playoff record to date hasn’t reached a “trend.”
  • “I think if this is the year they get pushed down the mountain a little bit, it starts to get Sisyphusian.” – Grant Brisbee (31:43).
• Evolution of Fan and Media Narratives
  • Discussion of how playoff narrative solidifies over time and with repeated “failures” or close calls.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Playoff Tension:
  “If you've been watching baseball for, you know, a long time...the two zero count with two runners on and nobody out is like a real red flag...I can see the crowd sort of, like, tensing up a little bit and sending those vibes.” – Grant Brisbee (09:18)

• On Early Fan Trash Talk:
  “We live in a culture where...that is the, like, Padres fans making fun of the Dodgers, you know, like, when they're up 2 to 1...This could go really sideways for you.” – Andy McCullough (21:54)

• On Pitch Tipping Gamesmanship:
  “Most of the time that's just BS because they want to create the paranoia in the picture that something is going wrong.” – Andy McCullough (47:44)

• Sam’s Playoff Bullpen Ranking
  “I think off the top of my head, just off the top of my head, I think I go, Cubs, Phillies, Mariners, and then like, Dodgers ish. Tigers. Ish. And then blue for the Brewers. Blue Jays.” – Sam Miller (42:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ballpark Atmosphere & Home Field Advantage: 03:11 – 13:57
• Yankees Down 0-2: Panic or Perspective? 13:57 – 21:54
• Fan Trash Talk & Modern Sports Fandom: 21:54 – 24:06
• Rapid Prospect Development & Organizational Trends: 24:49 – 28:34
• Dodgers’ Bullpen, Sasaki’s Emergence: 34:09 – 41:48
• Brewers Strategy & Crew Ball, Reliever Depths: 42:42 – 44:32
• Nico Hoerner Fielding gaffe & Brewers’ Luck: 44:32 – 46:07
• Pitch Tipping: The New Frontier: 46:11 – 48:46
• Phillies in Postseason, Narrative Building: 28:34 – 32:41

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Episode Tone & Style

The tone is conversational, irreverent, and analytical, with plenty of self-deprecation (“Egghead!”), jokes (“Closers, close counterpoint: it just might be crazy enough to work.”), and lived baseball experience. Baseball lingo and in-jokes abound, but the trio makes sure to relate their points back to broader trends and universal fan experiences.

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Concluding Thoughts

This episode is a field guide for navigating October: the group mixes hard-nosed analysis of the Yankees’ precarious position with musings on fandom, the quirks of playoff ballparks, and the nuances of baseball’s evolving meta-game. Whether you’re wondering if New York is doomed or just in another typical postseason predicament, you’ll leave with a more nuanced perspective—and a few hearty laughs.

Transcript

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[Grant Brisby]

This is the wind up. Welcome to episode number 182 of the Round Table. I'm Grant Brisby. Here's Sam rill and Annie McCullough. Eddie, how you doing?

[Andy Pahes]

I'm good.

[Grant Brisby]

Sam Miller, how are you doing?

[Sam Miller]

Three and three, baby.

[Grant Brisby]

Three and three. What does that mean?

[Sam Miller]

My predict. My. My winners. My predicted winners in the postseason. 3 and 3. You get a coin flip results. In baseball, you're the smartest man alive.

[Grant Brisby]

That's a good point. That's a good point. I mean, it's. I certainly didn't expect the Yankees to be eliminated this early in my mind. Andy, how you doing?

[Andy Pahes]

I'm okay. Yeah? I'm in Milwaukee. I had some Vietnamese food. I went to the wrong pho Saigon. There was another pho Saigon that I remembered, and it was like, fine, but it wasn't as good as the pho Saigon I recalled.

[Grant Brisby]

So what's your difference between fine pho and, like, exemplary pho?

[Andy Pahes]

It's hard to find exemplary pho, but this the thing is that it's like. It's like pizza. Like, a medium version of it is delicious. So I'm not even necessarily searching for, you know, the highest end. Pho. I just want to, you know, straightforward, classic. And this one just had. It had a weird. I felt like the meat was a little burned or something. That's all right.

[Grant Brisby]

Can I pitch a business idea to you guys?

[Sam Miller]

Costco. Pho.

[Grant Brisby]

Well, that's a good idea. Costco. I was thinking Chuck E. Cheese. Pho. Like, just bad. It's just inedible. But you save money on. On the amusements and what have you. Could be something. All right, what. What happened in baseball this weekend? Anything important?

[Sam Miller]

I want to ask Andy a question since he's in Milwaukee. He went to a game in Milwaukee. Andy, roughly speaking, how many postseason ballparks would you guess you've been to?

[Andy Pahes]

Oh, geez. A lot.

[Sam Miller]

Like 20ish.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah. 20. Probably. Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

You mentioned last week that Cub, I think, Cubs, Padres, you said, would be a nice series because both really nice playoff environments. And that rang true to me. I have good sort of sensory memories of both of those parks in general and. And in the playoffs. They both seem to bring it. And I started thinking about other parks that I feel like. I think, oh, well, that's a. That's a good part. That's a home field advantage postseason park. And I came up with like 28 out of, like, it feels like almost all of them are good.

[Grant Brisby]

Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

And I wondered. You've been to a lot more. I've only been to four postseason parks in person. You've been to, obviously many more. How big a range is it? What do you look for? And like, what are the best.

[Andy Pahes]

I think it's very overrated, as the Philadelphia Phillies have proven in the last few years, as they continue to lose games at home despite playing in a fairly raucous environment. But I think it is also something that when the home team wins, it is hard to ignore because it is just extremely loud. And so when you're covering a game at Minute Maid park or whatever, you know, whatever the die cut Daikin Park. Now, like, that was a wild sort of atmosphere because it was, you know, it had a roof, the ball was in play, and the Crawford boxes. There might have been some other stuff going on.

[Grant Brisby]

There are explosions for the home runs, too.

[Andy Pahes]

There's the train, all that stuff. So the range is. Is pretty wide. I mean, I can. I can think of a few environments that were less sort of notable. Like the Texas Rangers do not necessarily have, you know, Globe Life Field is kind of too big to really create that sort of cauldron of noise. Atlanta, Detroit. I think Milwaukee is very interesting because I recall it being quite raucous in, like, 2018. And if you have, you know, watch them on the postseason in recent years, it tends to be pretty good. But they're playing the Cubs right now, and so that is, you know, quite close to Chicago. And so it was probably about 20 Cubs fans on game one. So, yeah, I think there's a pretty wide range. I mean, Yankee Stadium is preposterously loud, but that's just because the speaker system is. At Yankee Stadium, there is a. For every game, there is some sort of cue after every pitch. Like, every single pitch, like, ball one. And then, you know, they hit some sort of sound cue that's, you know, like, strike one. And then there's like, you know, another sound cue. It's like songs. It's like, everybody, clap your hands. Like, after every single pitch, there is no letup. It's awful. Like, it's genuinely awful. I. I really dislike it. Dodger Stadium has an element of that, but also their crowd is hot. I would say.

[Grant Brisby]

Wait, Yankee Stadium's louder than Dodger Stadium in terms of speakers?

[Andy Pahes]

Yes, it's. Well, they're the only two that are comparable. They're the only two that are comparable. I. I think actually Dodger Stadium is probably louder than. But Dodger Stadium is less annoying, if that makes sense.

[Grant Brisby]

Yeah.

[Andy Pahes]

Like, Dodger Stadium will play that song. Let me see your hands clap. Like, it'll play that at the loudest volume you have ever heard, and you will find yourself in the press box, sort of like bopping to it. You're like, oh, this is. You know, Yankee Stadium does not have that sort of enjoyment. It's like, you want to, like. Yeah, it's really annoying. So that was a really wide ranging answer. But I do think there are distinct places that are kind of mid, I would say.

[Sam Miller]

I think that the great thing about that song is actually I can make your hands clap. And then he completely undermines his argument by then putting claps in because he does not trust you to clap. So I can make your hands clap. And then it's like the song does the clapping for you.

[Grant Brisby]

That's what makes it so clappable.

[Sam Miller]

It isn't. But unless it's just like covering up for the fact that nobody's clapping at all.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

I heard somebody, a player, once say that it was the only time he'd ever been, like, truly afraid because he thought the building was gonna fall down on him. Which is one kind of way that a crowd can bring it is like you hit a home run and it gets like crazy, crazy loud. But I tend to think that if I were picking an environment rather than like, what's the peak volume they can reach? Or like, how does the architecture, like, you know, respond to peak volume? It's more. How many times will the crowd stand up? This has been kind of a hobby horse of mine this year. Like, nobody really stands up anymore. It bugs me. Nobody stands up like pretty much ever if the, the hitting team, if the home team is hitting. And I don't like that. Like, I, I think that if it's the bases loaded in the ninth inning, crowd should stand up. And most ballparks won't do it anymore. But in the postseason, more Cubs are a great stand up crowd. They stand up all the time. That's like the one team that the crowd still stands up. The Blue Jays have been doing a lot of hitting standing this postseason. Well, it's been two games. The crowd was like all up when Andy, when Ernie Clement came up with like a runner on third in the second inning. That's exciting for me. Like, I really like that. And then I also really love the two strike sports. Stand up, which used to just be normal, like, right. It used to be like if your pitcher had two strikes on the batter, you stood and that's kind of gone. That's sort of like an old, previous generation thing now. But the Mariners did. Yesterday, the Mariners did the two strike stand up on every two strikes. I loved it. So those are things that I really appreciate in a ballpark. But that's a little different than the architecture or like how drunk they are.

[Grant Brisby]

For me, what that describes is it's almost like a shorthand for knowing ball. Right. Like, if you're, if you have a crowd that stands up when it's two strikes, it's like, yeah, they understand the importance of the moment. They understand that it's not just one random strikeout, it's 1 out of 27. That's an interlocking puzzle.

[Andy Pahes]

Right.

[Grant Brisby]

So they know ball. That's like the shorthand. To me. When, when you have an entire ballpark that's filled with people who are living and dying with every pitch and no ball, that to me, it's like a home field advantage. Yes. But it can quickly turn into a disadvantage because then when the pitcher gets in tr. In a situation to where, you know, it might not look like a jackpot from the outside. But like, if you've been watching baseball for, you know, a long time and you know that the, the two zero count with two runners on and nobody out is like a real red flag as opposed to, you know, it's not like a, a total obvious jackpot. I can see the crowd sort of like tensing up a little bit and like sending those vibes. So you've got Mariners where you've got fans who are expecting at any point a trapdoor, because that's all known. It's like the stand up can also come with a little, a little insecurity. Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

And also the two strike stand up. If you figure like a lot of those two strike stand ups are going to not lead to a strikeout. It's like your theory, Grant, that the saddest thing that humans ever created or like the saddest moment in humanity is when you have to turn the rally cap back to the normal cat because the rally failed. And so having reaching that two strike volume, and then it's like, oh, well, you gotta hit. That does sort of stink. But you know what? If you're back in it, the next batter, that's how you take the momentum back. What you don't want is a dead crowd.

[Grant Brisby]

This is one of the earliest baseball lessons that I ever learned. And it came courtesy of my mother. And she said, I hate it when people stand up when there are two strikes at the end of a game. And she says, I hate it. You know why? Because they're just gonna foul the pitch off. And from then on I was like five. And really I, I don't know the numbers I don't have in front of me. I think that is the likeliest outcome, especially on a 3, 2 count. Like, it's likelier to be a foul than any other outcome. And so I grew up thinking my mom was a baseball wizard. She still is. I mean, you know, she, she knows ball. But like, that was one of my very, very first baseball lessons, is that when it gets to that time and everyone's standing up, they're just gonna fall it off.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, you could also get to a level of ball knowledge that like, is too much where like, you're standing up when Freddie Peralta gets the two strikes, but you're like sitting down when Quinn Priester does because his strikeout rate is, you know, it's like, ah, he strikes out seven per nine. Like, he's like, come on man, let's go.

[Sam Miller]

I don't think that standing up. So what? So they foul it off. Then the next time you just stand up, you stand up harder on the next pitch. It's like to me, it's like. It's like Beyonce's key changes in love on top. Like every foul ball, every. You should just be like going higher on the next one. To me, that's great. You should all be. You should all be like, kind of like it should be altitude sickness by the end of a long at bat. The best game I ever went to as a fan was the 2010 NLCS game four, the one that they the Giants beat the Phillies on a walk off sacrifice fly by Juanu Rebay off Joe Blanton. I think great game. Normally like, like not the highest leverage game I've ever been to. Not the tensest game in any way, but like the crowd was standing up from jump. And I went back once and I counted, not even counting all the two strike stand ups and the end two out stand ups and all the pitching because pitching stand ups are more common. There were 24 times when Giants fans all stood up when the Giants were hitting. And it was a crazy thing to just be standing the whole time. It felt like you were at like a. Like an English Premier league game and you were like in the cage rather than, you know, like wine country baseball game, lean back, wait and see what happens kind of vibe orientation. So I don't know, stand up everybody is what I'm saying. And I have liked the Toronto and Seattle environment so far.

[Grant Brisby]

I will say that the loudest I've heard of ballpark is game five, 2017 World Series. When that was all going on and I was in center field auxiliary boxes and Carlos Correa hit a home run that went directly where the fireworks shoot out of. And so know when it landed, there was a sound and an explosion, which I don't know if typically home runs don't do that, right? You want them to like the little kid in you wants to. So that was. I know that's not to your point about standing up, but that was. I just had to throw that in there because then after that I met Andy at the airport and I. I've told the story before, but I met him, I said, hey, big fan, love your writing. And I realize now that what he was doing, he was talking like his impression of Karig, like that's like he was like living his life, just going, wow, I gotta catch a plane. Oh. And like he didn't. He. It was very funny. Anyways, tangent over.

[Andy Pahes]

That was a long man. That was. That was Crazy. That was a tough deadline. I would say, in general, the environment is good. There's very rarely times when the environment is disappointing. I will be very fascinated to see how the folks in the Bronx greet the Yankees for Game 3 because they leave town, you know, in this triumphant. You know, they've slayed the dragon of the Red Sox, who hadn't made the playoffs in, like, five years before. Then Aaron Boone outmanaged Alex Cora, all this stuff. And then they go to Toronto and just get their, like, brains beaten in for two games and not lost, not didn't play well, but, like, embarrassing sort of defeats. The sort of games that when in the playoffs, a lot of times they'll, Teams will say, like, early in a series, like, well, we'd rather lose this 8 to nothing than 2 to 1 because, you know, we didn't use our best pitchers or, you know, there wasn't an emotional swing, you know, we flushed the game in the fourth inning, all that sort of stuff. And like, I, I'm, I, I don't think, I don't completely discount that idea. Right. That makes some logical sense to me. But when it happens two games in a row, it's no longer a flushing problem. You're the one being flushed. You're being flushed right into the off season. And I'm very interested to see how Yankees fans, who, you know, obviously care very deeply about their team, but are also willing to voice their displeasure when things are going sideways. Very curious to see how they receive this bunch when they return, you know, on Tuesday, and especially if, like, they get off to a slow start on Tuesday. Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

Game one of the Yankees Series two is, is the worst kind of unflushable game because it, you can't put it all on one starting pitcher. Ah, well, you know, like, we had one guy on our team who sucked today, but doesn't say anything about the rest of the team. The worry with the Yankees is like, well, what if the bullpen's terrible? And the bullpen was terrible? Like, that's, that's the kind of blowout you don't want to, you don't want to lose. There's 18 innings. And they just don't seem to have an answer for the fact that the Blue Jays don't strike out all that much. And yeah, that's. Those were two. Those were two games that would bring out the most pessimistic assessments of the Yankees. I mean, they do get the benefit of, like, there's no, there's no start coming up where you go, well, The Blue Jays, they're going to bring Tarek School out here, and that's going to be a tough one to win. And they were two road games. You're supposed to lose the road games. Like, it's, it's supposed to be misleading. You know, you're supposed to lose the first two and then win the next.

[Andy Pahes]

Two, and then you're just, you're allowed to win.

[Sam Miller]

You are allowed to win. But like the most, if 55% favorites won every time, then every series would be, you fall behind to nothing and then you go ahead, you know, you tie it back up. And so that's kind of expected a little bit. Obviously, it's just a lot worse if it was the opposite and you were going on the road. Now, I don't know, I'm reacting a little bit to seeing David Ortiz hamming it up about how the series is over. And I generally don't like fan trash talk. And so watching David Ortiz be like, you know, it's done, it's a wrap and all that just kind of brought out the. My resistance to fan trash talk. Sure. And now I want to defend the Yankees and be like, no, it's kind of normal to lose games.

[Andy Pahes]

I mean, it's normal to lose games. Like, if they had split this series, you'd be like, all right, yeah, you know what, it's all good. But like, they were at one point down, you know, like 25 to 1 in the series, you know, before they like, finally kind of woke up in the seventh inning, went down 45 runs or whatever it was.

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[Grant Brisby]

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[Sam Miller]

Earn your micro [e-mail] today. At one point before they started scoring in Game 2, the Yankees and the Blue Jays, you know, finished tied with 94 wins. But the Yankees had a, like an a 90 run run differential advantage. And I was thinking we might get there, close the gap. And they did. They got, they closed half the gap.

[Grant Brisby]

And then it's pretty impressive.

[Sam Miller]

Then they brought in there, get him some work relievers.

[Grant Brisby]

Because it was very easy in the beginning of the season when the Yankees were doing this to the brewers to be like, wow, you know, like, the Brewer season is over. Yeah, like this, this team is. I remember thinking that very vividly. Like, man, the brewers. Finally, that run is, it was impressive.

[Andy Pahes]

But it is over.

[Grant Brisby]

And then obviously baseball seasons are long enough to where you are think of that anymore. Division Series aren't that long, though. Like, it's. The Yankees can win three games in a row. They're very capable, even against a good team. But the time, time might be running out. I might just, I might just have a point about this short postseason series.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, they're in, they're in the jackpot. That's. That's for sure.

[Sam Miller]

Yeah, I always remember and you know, we tend to remember certain things too much and call them to mind every time we need a counter example. But I just always remember the 1996 World Series and the Yankees were down this bad, you know, two games into a series against the Braves and then they won the next four and launched the dynasty. And, you know, that doesn't usually happen, but those 1996 were. Braves were significantly better than the 2025 Blue Jays.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, didn't this happen with like the, the Giants and the reds, like in 2012, maybe 2012?

[Sam Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's, it's, it's possible. It's, it's very within the realm of possibility. It just, it's, it's very unlikely.

[Grant Brisby]

I remember 2012. There was, I was working, I was a working man. I was doing the whole postseason, but I was also covering McCovey Chronicles and we're in this Slack channel that was, is for all the baseball people, including the copy editors and stuff. And one of the copy editors was a Reds fan, and after game two, he left the chat and said bye. 16 wise grants, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. I wasn't that chummy with them, so I thought, I thought it was a little. In retrospect, it is very funny, but at the time, it's like, well, the Reds haven't won a postseason game since. And so I, I just like to say to you, Charlie, I don't know, that you don't deserve that. No one deserves that. I'm sorry.

[Andy Pahes]

Have fans have really, like, we, we live in a country no longer guided by the guardrails of shame, right? And so, like, that sort of behavior, like puffing your chest out, went up two games in a series. Like, seems that was something that, like, my dad taught me. Don't. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just, we live in a culture where, like, that is the, like, Padres fans making fun of the Dodgers, you know, like, when they're up 2 to 1 or something like that. It's like, this could go really sideways for you. Why are you talking trash on the Internet? I guess it's fun. I guess it feels good. And if you don't have the capacity to feel embarrassed when it goes sideways, then it's all just positive energy. I don't know. I, I, I don't understand that that moment exists.

[Grant Brisby]

You are up. That moment is there for you to just say, I am feeling good in this moment. The future could bring anything, but in that moment, you know, carpet the hell out of that dm. That's what I say. Track, talk that trash.

[Sam Miller]

It's not feeling, it's not, it's not leaning into the feeling good, though. It's leaning into another person feeling bad.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

Over a thing that frivolous. Like, yeah.

[Andy Pahes]

The way sports are consumed now, it's like, about, it's less about, like, a communal experience and more about just being a hater for your ops. And it's like, one, don't talk like that. You're a grown person. Two, like, that's, that's not fun. Like, the point of winning the World Series is going to the parade or watching with your friends or, you know, communing with the people, you know, your community online who, like, you know, you've come to know and enjoy this through. It's not like sending a tweet making fun of a team you beat, like, two rounds earlier. That's weird to me. That's always felt odd, I guess.

[Grant Brisby]

Do you think we need more baseball players sending tweets about two series ago? I think that would be actually great. Content Andy.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, I'm not talking about the players, although Juan Soto posting that he's in Cancun rocks, good for him. Like, that's pretty. That's pretty cool. I saw that. That could have been fake. I don't know. I saw that on. On my for you tab on X, the everything site. And so it could be Grok or something.

[Grant Brisby]

But anyway, Savage. Yeah, it was pretty good. I have a funny story about this. I wrote about Trey Savage because baseball America had him mocked to go to the Giants in the first round, right? And so, like, I'm very aware he's in the top prospect list, what. What have you. But for whatever reason, I went to. And I. I went to the Blue Jays page because I was like, okay, so he's a top prospect. What sort of. Did he have one of those. Those minor where he was promoted to aaa and then the walk rate spiked up. But in general, like, the ERA was. Was still positive. Like, I'm trying to get a read on what he was as a prospect. And so I go to the page and I click. And I didn't realize it, but I accidentally clicked on Justin Brule, right?

[Sam Miller]

Oh, no.

[Grant Brisby]

And so I'm so insecure with my ball, knowing that I'm looking at this and going, son of a biscuit. Like, oh, my gosh, I had this all wrong. He's just some journeyman. He's been on the Dodgers, Roc, Pirates, Blue Jesus, even made a start since 2021. What is going on? And so for a full inning, I watch this. It's just going like, this kid's got the greatest stuff of any journeyman I've ever seen. For one inning, my mind was so blown, it came back to reality and I understood. But for one inning, I wish you could have lived that in that world for me because it was so beautiful.

[Andy Pahes]

Trey. Yay. Savage. What? Yesovich.

[Sam Miller]

Yes. Savage.

[Andy Pahes]

Yes. That Trey Savage has so little big league experience that his baseball reference page does not have a photo.

[Sam Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was. I mean, the. There have always been teams that, depending on where they were in the, you know, winning cycle or whatever, would maybe prioritize getting older draft picks so that they could help you sooner. But that always meant, like, three years from now, right? And we're getting to the point now where your draft kinda can or like, must win you next postseason. Like, there's. There's a striking number of players from the 2024 draft who are like, in the who's who in Major League Baseball 2025 edition. And Treyus Savage, like, drafted a year ago.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah.

[Sam Miller]

He's gonna pitch them to the World Series, if anyone is. I don't know how much that's kind of in their minds. I guess it must just feel like, well, they lucked out. Like, they must not have thought the day that they drafted him that he needed to be in their short term plans. But, yeah, the turnaround is really getting quick on some of these guys. Like Nick Kurtz, if he had come up to start the season, would have been like, third in MVP voting.

[Andy Pahes]

Right.

[Sam Miller]

Right after he got drafted in one.

[Grant Brisby]

Of the craziest MVP races in modern baseball.

[Sam Miller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Grant Brisby]

Because the thing about. I know the Giants with their managerial search are looking at like, Tennessee coach, the. The Vanderbilt coach, all that, because these big programs, East Carolina is one of them. They have the data labs.

[Andy Pahes]

They.

[Grant Brisby]

They are little mini functioning. You know, they. They have way more data than the Rockies. I mean, I don't know, but they do, you know, and so they're coming here ready to plug and play the college pitching.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, college pitching is, Is. I wouldn't say it's not ahead of the majors, but it's, It's. It's very advanced and there's a lot of good work being done there. Grant, just real quick, you mentioned the Giants managerial opening. Did you enjoy when Buster Posey said he was looking for someone who was detail oriented, relentlessly committing to winning, and would leave no stone unturned as if he was staring at a picture of Gabe Kapler?

[Grant Brisby]

I honestly, I'll. I'll just be. I'll put it right on the table. I want one stone unturned. I want that to hold the. Maybe the guy who was better, you know, maybe the. What if that was worse? I don't know. I'd like one stone.

[Sam Miller]

Six of the top 20 picks in the 2024 draft were in the majors this year. And, like, five of them were pretty good. Four of them are pretty good already. Yeah. Cam Smith, Chase Burns, Nick Kurtz, and Trey Savage. And then, you know, I didn't realize that Christian was.

[Grant Brisby]

I didn't realize that Christian Moore was already. I mean, the Angels love doing this where they're just.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, they shouldn't. They shouldn't count for the trend. They've been doing this for years. Yeah, I have a Phillies question, slash take, please. Why do they not have a national rep for being dogs in the postseason?

[Sam Miller]

Well, like. Like, how far back are you going?

[Andy Pahes]

I mean, so like, before last season, right. The Dodgers had a reputation for losing in the Postseason because that was, you know, more often than not what they did. Right.

[Sam Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Pahes]

The Phillies have they had a sort of under covered nationally I would say. But from a local perspective it's very well documented but like under considered nationally how badly they flubbed the 2023 NLCS against the Diamondbacks when they were up 20 and 3 to 2 and just completely biffed it. They crashed out in the first round last year. They talked about how they were going to make a variety of changes to their lineup going into this year. Didn't do that and are now, you know, look, this could sound stupid on Friday if they, you know, knock out the Dodgers. But like that seems that series will go five I think if the Phillies win or it could end in three. The Dodgers starting pitching is so elite that it's going to be really challenging for the Phillies after losing the the when Christopher Sanchez was on the mound. I'm just curious why they haven't picked up that stink that other teams had.

[Sam Miller]

This doesn't feel like a complicated answer. Like they've been fine. Like what do you mean they had.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, they, they lose in the playoffs every year.

[Sam Miller]

You're only going modern Philly. Like you're not talking about like you.

[Andy Pahes]

Know, previous generations iteration of the Phillies since 2023.

[Sam Miller]

So the difference, there's, there's a few differences between the Phillies and the Dodgers. One is that the Phillies are not 100 plus win team. They've in those four years they've won 87, 90, 95 and 96. So they haven't been like a super team that you expected them to go crazy in the postseason. So that's one thing. Two is it's only been three years. This year does, you can't count this year. They lost one game. So can't count this year. So you're now talking about three postseasons, one of which they went to the World Series and gave the Super Astros.

[Andy Pahes]

Yes.

[Sam Miller]

Pretty good man. That was like a good World Series. They almost, you know, so they had one undeniably impressive postseason. One where they, you know, went to the lcs. Like they didn't get knocked out in the wild card round or anything like that. They went to the lcs and then last year, last year sucked. So I would just say that it's it. I mean I'm not saying that they won't get there. I'm not saying that you haven't identified a general lack of performance that maybe with a couple more years could reach trend status. But I think that going into the postseasons all three of those years. I bet you they outperformed betting odds, for instance, in those games. And I. They're probably like 500ish in those games. They. They've won three series and lost three series up to this point, so that's pretty good for a team that's averaging 92 wins in the regular season.

[Grant Brisby]

That is very analytical. I. I rebuke it. I think that this. This is the. Yeah. Way to be rational, egghead. I think this is the year where they might start picking that up. I think if this is the year they get pushed down the mountain a little bit, it starts to get Sisyphusian.

[Andy Pahes]

It scares me when Grant and I are on the same side against Sam. Makes me a little worried. Worried.

[Grant Brisby]

But. But right now, I. I don't think that I. I'm actually with Team Sam right now because I don't think it's justified yet. I really don't.

[Andy Pahes]

I guess I just feel like we should have talked more about the 2023 NLCS, but that's fine. We can. That's not what this podcast was. We did, but it was like, in retrospect, it's a. It's a. It's a really big blunder anyway. All right, that's fine. That game on that they played with the Dodgers on. On Saturday, that was a baseball game that was really fun to watch. I covered Brewers Cubs, which, you know, is great for brewers fans, but wasn't much of a game. The brewers ran them over in the first two innings, but I was home or I was at my hotel in Milwaukee and got a chance to watch, you know, most of that one, and, man, that's post season baseball right there. That was a good time. Two really good teams just banging their heads against the wall. The Dodgers have figured out their bullpen. As Sam put it in our text thread, they have seven starters. No, wait, they have eight. No, they have seven.

[Sam Miller]

I think it's seven.

[Andy Pahes]

They have seven. Yeah. She and Kershaw, Sheehan and Sasaki. Yes, that's right. They have seven starters. That's pretty good. Ready to order? Yes.

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[Sam Miller]

Is Sasaki @ this point just a lock? Okay, so he's still a little bit.

[Andy Pahes]

Well, because you're, the sample size is like three games. He looks great. He does, right? Well, I mean aesthetically he, he is the apotheosis of the, the archetype we've created of completely terrified looking guy throwing the best pitches you've ever seen. You know, like he looks visibly just terrified, but I think that's just kind of his countenance, you know, like, so I wouldn't suggest that he actually is. But the, the stuff is explosive. Like he's missing bats, you know, the fastball is jumping again. You know, the splitter is tough and like he looks great. Now, is it the sort of thing where you feel like, oh wow, you know, like they, they play his entrance music, this game's over. No, I, I, I don't think you're at that point yet, but you could certainly feel that way in like three weeks if he keeps it up.

[Grant Brisby]

He seems to me like he's gonna, and this is just a vibe that I'm getting feels to me like the closer that's just nails right up until he isn't right. Like it's just like you get used to him. Just 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3. And then in the most crucial spot, the splitter just is, he can't locate it. He can't, he can't get a feel of it. But that's just, it's not wish casting, but it's sort of just like I've seen that before and that I kind of just, I'm feeling in those steps for them it might not happen.

[Sam Miller]

So the league average strike rate is about 64 and you know, a pitcher that you think of as flaky or wild is usually around like 61 and maybe the worst in the league or like a, you know, like a sinker baller who just won't go in the zone will be maybe like 59. And Sasaki this year was 59. And that was obviously a big part of the problem. Since he joined the bullpen, in his last three outings, he has thrown 86 strikes. Yeah, that's a lot different. Like that's just a different picture. That's a different pitcher with a different plan. He's in control, he's confident and he's getting results. Those are like the three things that strike rate shows you, is like, are you in command? Are you confident? Are you getting results? And those are three very impressive outings. Just from that standpoint, like given what his red flags were given, like what his problems were, he fixed those things as a reliever.

[Andy Pahes]

They've given him, they gave him the, the Tampa Bay sort of instruction of just throw it down the middle. Like throw it down the middle, see if they can do anything with it. And at this juncture, with the lack of experience with him and the fact that he's throwing 100 miles an hour with a nasty splitter behind it, like they can't barrel it yet. And you know, maybe in a seven game series, if a, if a good, if a team that doesn't strike out a lot, like you know, the, the Blue Jays or whomever gets like a third crack at him, they can start barreling it up. But if you're seeing him for the first time, like he does not, he's not easy to pick up and he's, he does not seem overcome by the moment, which I think a lot of people were, were worried would be what happened if he went to the bullpen. And so it's a credit to the organization for, you know, kind of finding a way to keep him in the mix when, you know, it would have been easy to write him off, I guess, like not long term, but within the context of this season, you know. And so their bullpen is still kind of a wreck, but they also are going to try and use it as little as possible.

[Sam Miller]

Well, that's, I was going to ask you that next. If you assume that Sasaki doesn't allow a run, that he just, you know, this is him and he comes out and he settles down the ninth inning, every ninth inning he pitches is scoreless, does that solve, does that basically solve the Dodgers bullpen problem? Because they do have, like, a lot of guys, you know, some of them have failed, like, disastrously. And the ninth inning in particular has just been like, everybody kind of loses their mind in the ninth inning. Now, if you settle that down, do you figure, well, we got enough guys here and they're not all, you know, tripping at the same time and, you know, then you throw in Sheehan and Kershaw maybe even as. As depth. Do we now start talking about the Dodgers bullpen as being like, problem of the past?

[Andy Pahes]

I think that is dependent still on the starters doing what they are expected to do. Because once you get. If Blake Snell goes four innings tonight, then it's going to be hard for them to cover those 15 outs. Well, okay, if he's not going to go more than five innings, but I guess if he goes three innings, right, if he can't finish the first fourth inning, if Yoshinobu Yamamoto goes, you know, four and a third instead of the six that you're banking on, like, it just. They're gonna have to really ride the starters and so they have more of a sort of safety net, I think, and that they can kind of trust Sasaki for now, can handle the ninth. There's going to be a moment where Tanner Scott is pitching and leverage and if he looks like the guy he's been for much of this year, like, that could go sideways. He also was the best pitcher I saw in the postseason last year. He was the most unhittable guy I came across. And so that's still in there. There's still some peripheral reason to believe, right, that he's still pretty good. But, like, there's going to be a moment when, like, Blake Trinen is up there with, like, runners on base. Like, is he going to be able to throw strikes or is, you know, the slider just in the split in the two seamer just going to, you know, zoom out of control. You just don't know until you get in there.

[Grant Brisby]

What do you think the temptation level is for the Dodgers to use if Sasaki continues pitching as well as he has? What's. What's the temptation level for him to do multiple innings to sort of be a closer? Right. I'm with you. Like, it doesn't seem like the greatest idea, but it doesn't seem tempting if he's just rolling through and then, well, you can just put him in for the next inning too.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, it's tempting.

[Sam Miller]

No, it's like, it's like Andy's mic situation before, you know, he had one aspect of it finally was working. He's not gonna shut down the computer to try to get the whole thing working. You just, like. I think that you have to say we. Wow. Like, what a gift. What a gift. The ninth inning is settled. You're not gonna probably ask him to, like, get clever now. Like, that's. That's too much, too cognitively challenging for this stage in his development moment.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah. There might be game situations that dictate late in a series and a clinching scenario of a 7 gamer where maybe it makes sense for him to go get five outs or something like that. Maybe. But the idea that you would build that in is like, well, actually, you know, okay, we're gonna get. We're gonna get, you know, 18 outs from Yamamoto, and then we're gonna get six on the back end from Sasaki, and let's just figure out whatever that is. Minus 27. Like, I don't. I don't foresee that.

[Sam Miller]

Or the heart of the orders up in the sixth. We're bringing them in in the sixth. Not. That's not an option either.

[Grant Brisby]

Like, I don't.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, I don't think he's.

[Sam Miller]

Ninth inning. Yeah, you know, like, set the alarm clock. There's one time he's coming in, buddy.

[Grant Brisby]

It's.

[Andy Pahes]

It's 2001, baby.

[Grant Brisby]

Closers, close counterpoint. It just might be crazy enough to work. You ever consider that?

[Andy Pahes]

Raise a great point, Grant, as always.

[Sam Miller]

But.

[Grant Brisby]

But to the larger part, I think if you are saying, okay, we've got Sasaki, and then I, you know, Alex Vesia and Jack Dreyer are pretty reliable coming in from the left side. That starts to look like the typical struggling bullpen that you are finding throughout the postseason, Especially now, the Padres gone. I don't think there's a ton of, like, rock solid bullpens still vying to get to the. To the lcs. If you assume that Sasaki is like, okay, he's got the ninth inning lockdown. The Dodgers start to look normal.

[Andy Pahes]

Ish.

[Grant Brisby]

With this peer group.

[Sam Miller]

Maybe like, fourth. They might be like, my fourth. So that's normalish. That's like around median.

[Andy Pahes]

How would you rank them now, Sam, who's your job?

[Sam Miller]

I think I. I think off the top of my head, just off the top of my head, I think I go, Cubs, Phillies, Mariners. And then like, Dodgers ish. Tigers. Ish. And then blue for the Brewers. Blue Jays. You know what? Like, I actually, I'm just skipping the Brewers. I. Yeah, that's in my head. I'm still thinking like, yeah, Jeremy, Jeffries, like, it's hard to remember because they churn through leverage so fast. So I have. I have to plead ignorance on the Brewers.

[Andy Pahes]

That's fair. No, you're sort of. You're like, well, you know, they could have canable pitch the seventh, but he's always viable to open, too.

[Sam Miller]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Pahes]

So they have Aaron Ashby opening game, too. That's. That's where. That's. They're playing crew ball.

[Sam Miller]

They also have potentially, like, I. I was trying to get a handle on what the brewers plan is for their rotation, because after Peralta, like, I haven't seen a clear answer. Like, they might be using openers for Priester and Quintana, and then they might be doing a bullpen game. So just in terms of, like, the strain on the brewers, that's another factor. I don't mean to insult the Brewers. I am, like, up front saying I am ignorant about the brewers bullpen. I don't know why. It's because they had a buy. I didn't get to see them. Etc, so maybe they're up there, too.

[Grant Brisby]

It's because there's 30 teams, Sam. It's like 750 players.

[Sam Miller]

They have 320 of them are relievers.

[Andy Pahes]

They have three.

[Grant Brisby]

Like.

[Andy Pahes]

Like, close to, you know, stud relievers, I would say. You know, Aaron Ashley's been very good this year. Abner Uribe has been very good. Trevor McGill, who is the. Who I believe is the bigger McGill. He is a big fella. He was the closer. Then he had a thing, an elbow thing, and now he's like, maybe the fireman. And Uribe is. So they have three big guys, and then they have, you know, then they crew ball you and stuff.

[Sam Miller]

So.

[Andy Pahes]

But, yeah, their rotation's weird. Quinn Priester has been pretty good this year, you know, but they're gonna have an opener forum in game two. You know, basically to get left on left with, like, Michael. Michael Bush and Kyle Tucker, which, you know, is like, a very, like, 2018 sort of thing to do, but it also, like, yeah, that makes sense, you know. Sure. All right, you can do that. We'll see how it goes. But, yes, their rotation is. Is a bit short. Jacob. The combination of Brandon Woodruff straining his lat and probably just being unavailable this postseason and Jacob Mizarowski really regressing is. Has left them in an. In an odd spot for trying to figure out they would do well to. To sweep some series, if that makes sense.

[Sam Miller]

Andy, can you explain, like, what Nico Horner was trying to do on that ball?

[Grant Brisby]

Sure.

[Andy Pahes]

He was trying to field it and he got. He got crew balled.

[Sam Miller]

Was he gonna flip it with his glove all the way? His, his throwing hand was way out here. Was he planning to spin and throw to second? Was he planning to flip with the glove or was the ball spinning in such a way that he got off balance?

[Andy Pahes]

Like, I think it is the last one. Okay. Nico Horner is a very good fielder, probably the best second baseman in the sport. It was an odd sort of spinning ball off Sal Freelix bat. And it was kind of like the epitome of, you know, brewers, right? Like, it's just like a weird hop that they somehow scored a run. Like William Contrera scored from second on with one out. And, you know, Andrew Vaughn is running hard to second base. He's kind of, you know, legally like obstructs Horner to make Horners play tougher. Freelick is busting it. Horner's like kind of in between because the ball's weird. He's trying to figure out in a very short amount of time if he can get two, you know, all that sort of stuff. And he just sort of muffed it. And as you know, Sam, you wrote that great piece earlier this year, kind of looking at all the times when like this sort of stuff happened. And this is. It's a hard thing to like to explain. It's. It's harder to explain than hitting a home run. They do not hit home runs at the clip that other teams do. But it is an effective strategy. It's just hard to predict when it's going to show up, if that makes sense.

[Grant Brisby]

Andy, before we leave, I just wanted to say loved the pitch tipping article.

[Andy Pahes]

Oh, thank you, everyone.

[Grant Brisby]

You wrote it with Dennis Lynn and.

[Andy Pahes]

And Cody Stevenhagen. Yeah, yeah, we did. Yeah. We've been working on a project about just like trying to explain why pitch tipping has become so much more prevalent as a topic. Definitely this year it was before this year it's really a post pitchcom thing because once they got rid of signs, no longer did teams start studying the worst, trying to steal signs from the. The catcher. They were just studying the body of the pitcher and with cameras and everything, they can really, really do it. And so yeah, there was a couple examples in game. Those game ones, like Luke Weaver was pretty open about how like he just has been broken himself by trying to stop pitch tipping. And then there was Matt Strom gave up a home run to Oscar Hernandez and Andy Pahes was making like the very common signal from second base. It Was, you know, it's interesting. I talked to Strom, like, for this story in September, and he was, like, adamant. He was like, I don't tip. I use the same grip. Like, yes, they can see in my glove. It doesn't matter, like, you know, whatever. He was, like, very confident about that. And he's been. And subsequently, I think he was like, posting on X the Everything site about how he wasn't tipping, but part of the whole thing. It's not even that, like, there's a lot of bluffing involved, which I was unaware of. Which, like, the thing that I learned in doing some of these interviews is like, you know, how, like, a guy will score on, like a, you know, he's at second base and he scores on a single and he like, crosses the plate and then he comes and grabs the guy in the on deck circle and whispers something in his ear. Most of the time that's just BS because they want to create the paranoia in the picture that something is going wrong.

[Grant Brisby]

It's Gaylord Perry touching every part of his uniform.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, you know, Patrick Bailey, like, you know, Dennis was able to talk to Patrick Bailey about this. There's a thing with the Giants and the. And the Padres where Bailey was kind of making all these sign, you know, movements at second base and he was like, oh, yeah, I was bluffing. We didn't have anything, you know, which I. I enjoy it. There's a gamesmanship to it and, like, you know, not to be like a. Like, hopefully it's like, it's all legal. I assume it's all legal. It's hard to figure out where the illegal stuff would come in. But then, you know, failure of imagination was part of the reason why, you know, the Astros kind of got away with it for a while. But I. Yeah, it's a thing that, like, if you're good at baseball in 2025, you're good at picking up when pitchers are tipping.

[Grant Brisby]

Only complaint. Great article. You should read it. Only complaint is that as a fan of isis, the band, not the. The terror group, you did not sneak in a Panopticon reference. You know exactly where I'm going with that. You needed to sneak in some Foucault and some Panopticon. All right.

[Andy Pahes]

You do have to hand it to Aaron Turner's band, isis. They were awesome.

[Grant Brisby]

They were all right. This has been episode number 182. We'll be back on Friday to talk about what the Yankees do in the long, long, long off season, because they're definitely out.

[Sam Miller]

How many teams. Will, will any series still be going on Friday or will we know all of these wild card rooms? I think game fours are on Thursday.

[Grant Brisby]

In the NL Division Series. Game five, American League, if necessary.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, game five in the NLDS is the Saturday, the 11th.

[Sam Miller]

Okay. So yeah, so we're gonna have, we're gonna be on some razor's edges.

[Andy Pahes]

Yeah, we could, it could all be over or, you know, we could. Yeah, be doing a lot of prep.

[Sam Miller]

All right.

[Grant Brisby]

We will be back on Friday talking about that. See you then.

[Andy Pahes]

Let me see your hands.

[Sam Miller]

Clap.

[Andy Pahes]

I was very wrong.

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[Grant Brisby]

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[Andy Pahes]

Lounge access is subject to change.

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[Grant Brisby]

At Whole Foods Market.

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