The Windup: The Roundtable | Reviewing the Wild Card Round & Previewing the Divisional Round

Podcast: The Windup — The Athletic
Date: October 3, 2025
Episode: 181 – Hosted by Grant Brisbee with Andy McCullough & Sam Miller

Episode Overview

This lively Roundtable episode brings together Grant Brisbee, Andy McCullough, and Sam Miller to break down all the action, key strategies, and narrative-shaping moments of the 2025 MLB Wild Card round. The trio then looks ahead to the much-anticipated Divisional series, delving into intriguing team matchups, managerial decision-making, and roster nuances. The episode is filled with insightful analysis, thoughtful questions, a healthy dose of humor, and memorable, at times tongue-in-cheek, quotes — all in the original, witty tone fans of The Athletic have come to expect.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. First Impressions of the Wild Card Series

• Psychological Impact of Benching Stars

  • Sam Miller expresses concern about teams sitting or pinch-hitting for their star players (e.g., Detroit’s Riley Greene, Miami’s Jazz Chisholm), arguing this could erode both player confidence and team identity.
    • "You want your stars to think they’re stars. If that is how you view your best hitter, you probably are gonna need an upgrade on that." — Sam Miller ([04:19])
  • Andy agrees, noting the move communicates that even the “best” guy may not be trusted at crunch time.
    • "If the Detroit Tigers...are going to be doing things like that in leverage situations, then they need to get a new best hitter." — Andy McCullough ([06:16])

• Platoon Logic vs. Player Identity

  • Grant coins the phrase “Springfield Moneyball,” referencing The Simpsons and how stat-driven, cold-blooded moves can backfire on morale.
    • "We can't let Strawberry hit against a lefty... It's Springfield Moneyball." — Grant Brisbee ([06:34])

2. Managerial Aggression & Bullpen Usage

• Leveraging Starters and Relievers
  • Over-aggressiveness in yanking starters early (e.g., Bello, Cease) becomes a thread.
    • "You are, it is contractually obligated that spot will come up again and you will have lost the platoon advantage." — Andy ([07:27])
  • Andy brings up Dave Roberts’ Dodgers: early recognition of leverage but long-term “cascading” bullpen costs.
    • "If you do that over and over...there is a cascading effect, there is a cost, especially in a seven game series or...even shorter series." — Andy ([09:34])
  • Sam points out the unique math and stress of three-game Wild Card sets: every manager faces tough, sometimes unsolvable compromises.
    • "There’s no margin for error, there’s no days off. And it’s an intriguing sort of math question that has not really been solved yet." — Grant ([12:16])

3. Postseason Micro-Strategies & Team Psychology

• On “Punting” a Postseason Game

  • Grant and Andy discuss whether teams should ever consider “punting” a playoff game for the sake of bullpen management or overall series odds, recalling the Dodgers’ controversial approach.
    • "I'm not punting a World Series game. It is the World Series. You cannot punt." — Andy, paraphrasing Dave Roberts ([12:27])
  • Sam contends the postseason is still too scarce for this to widely catch on.

• Managing the Padres’ Bullpen-First Postseason Style

  • Andy describes the challenge: when your team’s identity is short outings and rolling out arms, how do you maintain that in a relentless postseason schedule?
    • "You got to play your team. You have to play with urgency but not over, like, an over anxiety to intervene." — Andy ([15:37])

• Compromise is Inevitable

  • Sam underscores the dizzying math of outs and innings when every pitch/use matters:
    • "You have to make compromises or else you get to game three...and then your bullpen is strained trying to get the last eight because you’ve used so much of them in game two." — Sam ([17:19])

4. Offensive Struggles & Identity

• Padres’ and Guardians’ Weak Offenses

  • Andy bluntly states, “They did not hit. They lost because they did not hit.” ([21:06])
  • Grant says the Guardians “stole thunder” from the Padres as the weakest offensive postseason draw ([21:35])

• The Paradox of 'Guards Ball'

  • Sam and Grant riff on the weird charm and ultimate unwatchability of Guardians-style, low-offense, “chaos by attrition” baseball.
    • "Sometimes it's a bear market, sometimes it's a bull market. When it’s a bear market, it’s unwatchable." — Grant ([23:38])
    • Sam: “If you replace the 500 best players with 500 worst players, we would acclimate anyway... proof of that is Guardians-Tigers.” ([22:00])

5. Tigers vs. Mariners: Are the Tigers Back?

• Sam asks if the Tigers have overcome their “collapse” and deserve to be considered contenders after righting the ship and matching the Mariners statistically.
  • Grant: “The recency bias of the Tigers — I think we can forgive now...I think they should be treated like the Mariners.” ([27:00])
  • Andy: “Psychologically, yes. I don’t think their issues were psychological down the stretch...They were collapsing. And a collapse is related to physical skill rather than mental fortitude.” ([26:11])

6. Divisional Round Matchups & Analysis

• Brewers vs. Cubs: Defensive Chess Match
  • Sam worries if the Brewers’ “put the ball in play and profit off defensive miscues” approach will hold up versus the Cubs’ airtight defense.
    • "The Brewers are going up against the Cubs. If there was a team...with no holes and is exceptional at the key spots." — Sam ([32:51])
  • Andy expands: Cubs “catch the baseball,” with comparisons to the anti-error Pirates and Royals teams past. ([33:03])

7. Format Philosophy: Divisional Matchups in Early Rounds

• Grant prefers old-style seeding, keeping divisional rivals apart until later rounds, but Andy and Sam note this sometimes led to unfair matchups.
  • Andy: “The old format was just so unfair though...it just didn’t function.” ([37:12])

8. Pitching Narratives & the Complete Game

• Dominant Performances and Changing Pitcher Use

  • Grant and Andy celebrate Cam Schlitter’s old-school, “country hardball” performance and compare it to postseason folk heroes of the past.
    • "There's something really appealing about that...just to be strong enough to do that at this time of year." — Andy ([39:22])
  • Nostalgic discussion about the disappearance of deep outings and complete games. Sam wonders if conditions might again arise where a complete game is possible.
    • "Every postseason game is going to go one of two narratives...it’s either, 'why is the starter still in?', or, 'we have to ride him to 140 pitches.'" — Sam ([40:22])
    • On last World Series CG: “Johnny Cueto.” — Sam ([41:44])
    • Shohei Ohtani as the likeliest next complete game postseason candidate ([44:16])

• Manager-Pitcher Trust Evolution

  • Grant highlights how the historical “bullpen trust” has shifted to more honest pitcher-manager communication.
    • "I don't like watching guys go... it's going to be bad for me, but it's going to show I'm tough. I don't miss that." — Grant ([46:54])

9. Player Safety & HBP Risks

• Sam, reacting to Aaron Judge barely escaping a serious hand injury, calls for harsher penalties for pitchers who hit batters in the hands.
  • "If a pitcher breaks the batter's hands with a pitch, he gets a 10 day suspension." — Sam ([47:40])
  • Grant and Andy agree it’s a worthy topic for further debate ([48:43])

10. Quick Divisional Round Picks

Each host gives their ALCS/NLCS predictions:

• Sam: Mariners, Dodgers, Brewers, Yankees ([49:25])
• Andy: Brewers, Dodgers, Yankees, Mariners ([49:36])
• Grant: Cubs, Phillies, Mariners, Yankees ([49:40])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you're the Detroit Tigers...and you pull your star in a playoff spot, you need to find a new star." — Andy McCullough ([06:16])
• "This is like the perfect laboratory conditions for pitching a World Series complete game." — Sam Miller ([42:06])
• "Sometimes you're the Guards and sometimes you're the windshield." — Andy McCullough ([23:38])
• On the essence of postseason letdowns:
  "They scored five runs in three games... Five runs is the eighth inning against the Dodgers bullpen. That’s nothing." — Andy McCullough ([21:06])
• On changing manager-pitcher dynamics:
  "The starter was uniformly gonna go, 'good, skip, all the bullets are still in there.'... Now, more honest communication." — Grant Brisbee ([45:20])
• The “Guards Ball” paradox and existential baseball humor:
  • "When there is no Guards Ball, it's unwatchable. That is the paradox of Guards Ball." — Grant ([23:38])
  • "If you replace the 500 best players with 500 worst players, we would acclimate anyway...proof of that is Guardians-Tigers." — Sam ([22:00])

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Wild Card big takeaways – [04:19]
• Star benching and 'Springfield Moneyball' – [06:34]
• Bullpen over-usage & Dave Roberts strategies – [09:34]
• How managers are still figuring out short series – [11:35]
• On 'punting' postseason games – [12:27]
• Postseason management hypotheticals – [14:19]
• Padres as an example – [15:13]
• Offensive woes: Padres & Guardians – [21:06]
• 'Guards Ball' phenomenon dissected – [23:06]
• Tigers vs. Mariners parity – [27:00]
• Brewers, Cubs and postseason defense – [32:51]
• Discussion about divisional matchups – [36:41]
• Cam Schlitter’s dominance and pitching narrative – [39:22]
• Complete games and modern pitching philosophy – [41:44]
• Evolution of pitcher-manager trust – [45:20]
• Batter safety/HBP controversy – [47:40]
• Hosts' Divisional Round picks – [49:25]

Conclusion

This episode covers everything a postseason-minded baseball fan could want: tactical deep-dives into recent and upcoming playoff matchups, rich anecdotes on the modern game’s quirks, lively disagreement about strategy trends, and playful but pointed takes on the game’s burning questions. The hosts blend sharp, often self-deprecating humor with earnest analysis and affection for baseball’s enduring weirdness.

Whether you missed the games or just want a sharper lens on October’s tactical chaos, this Roundtable is both primer and therapy for the postseason-obsessed.