In this episode of The Winston Marshall Show, I sit down with science writer and sceptic Michael Shermer to debate truth, morality, atheism, and whether reason alone can ground a moral system.

We examine David Hume’s is-ought problem, the foundations of human flourishing, and Shermer’s argument that survival and well-being provide a rational basis for ethics. I challenge him on whether this is simply a different kind of leap of faith, and whether Enlightenment liberalism ultimately rests on inherited Judeo-Christian assumptions about the individual, the soul, and human dignity.

The conversation explores empiricism, pragmatism, evolution, and the limits of reason, alongside debates about Christianity, secular humanism, and whether religion provides measurable social benefits. We also tackle the legacy of New Atheism, the rise of woke ideology, environmentalism as a quasi-religion, and whether the moral arc of history truly bends toward justice.

A wide-ranging and philosophical exchange about faith, reason, truth, and whether the modern West can defend its moral foundations without returning to religion.

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Chapter

00:00 – Can You Derive Morality from Science?

01:28 – Hume’s Is–Ought Problem Explained

05:00 – Why Human Flourishing Is the Moral Starting Point

08:04 – Survival vs Death: The Ultimate Moral Question

12:27 – Christianity vs Enlightenment Morality

19:25 – Do Religious People Live Longer?

23:04 – Empirical Truth vs Religious Truth

25:00 – The Resurrection: Literal or Literary?

28:14 – Can Reason Justify Reason?

30:00 – Is Religion “Pragmatically True”?

35:15 – New Atheism & the Rise of Wokeism

38:06 – Environmentalism as a New Religion

45:06 – Does History Bend Toward Justice?

47:47 – Grooming Gangs, Slavery & Modern Injustice

50:00 – Trans Ideology, Moral Reversal & Vigilance

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Michael Shermer - “Religion is a practical and pragmatic truth!” Former-New-Atheist Intellectual on Morals Without God