Are Your Smart Devices Really Spying on You?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Wirecutter Show – “Are Your Smart Devices Really Spying on You?”

Release Date: August 13, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled “Are Your Smart Devices Really Spying on You?”, The Wirecutter Show delves deep into the pervasive issue of data privacy in the age of smart technology. Hosts Christine Cyr Clisset and Kyra Blackwell, joined by producer Rosie Guerin and guest John Chase, explore the extent to which everyday smart devices collect data, who has access to this information, and what consumers can do to protect their privacy.

Data Privacy Concerns in Modern Technology

The conversation kicks off with Rosie Guerin sharing a personal experience that highlights the unsettling advancements in AI-driven smart devices. She recounts an incident where Siri not only transcribed a text message but also attempted to describe a photo of her children, raising immediate concerns about privacy and data accuracy.

Rosie Guerin [01:07]: “It started transcribing or describing the photo she sent, which happened to be of my two children... I was like, cancel, Cancel.”

Understanding Data Collection by Smart Devices

Christine Cyr Clisset introduces the topic by acknowledging the widespread understanding that internet usage involves some level of data sharing. She emphasizes Wirecutter’s extensive research into the data collected by various smart home devices, revealing that many devices not typically labeled as "smart" are still gathering significant amounts of data.

Christine Cyr Clisset [03:38]: “...there are a lot of devices in our homes that we may not think of as smart devices are actually collecting quite a lot of data.”

Clarifying the Misconceptions: Are Devices Spying?

John Chase clarifies that while smart devices are indeed "paying attention," the term “spying” might be overly charged. He explains that data is the fuel for smart home functionality, enabling devices to learn and adapt to user behaviors. However, he highlights instances where devices may collect more data than consumers realize.

John Chase [06:24]: “Spy is a very charged term. You might just say they are paying attention, close attention.”

The Role of Data Brokers and Data Usage

The discussion shifts to how data brokers exploit the collected information. These brokers aggregate data from various sources, including smart devices, to build detailed profiles used for targeted advertising and other purposes. Chase underscores the lack of transparency and regulation, making it difficult for individuals to understand the full scope of their data being monetized.

John Chase [18:43]: “Data brokers specialize in unearthing this information, selling it to the highest bidder, essentially.”

In-Depth Look at Specific Devices

1. Smart Speakers

   • Data Collection: Smart speakers collect personal information such as names, home addresses, contacts, and even preferences based on user interactions.
   • Future Implications: With advancements in AI, devices like Alexa are evolving to learn more deeply about users, potentially internalizing personal preferences for more personalized interactions.

   John Chase [24:16]: “Alexa is always listening, but it's literally listening for a particular waveform, like a vocal code.”

2. Smart TVs

   • Automatic Content Recognition (ACR): Most modern TVs utilize ACR to take periodic screenshots, analyze the content being viewed, and send this data to the cloud for profiling and targeted advertising.
   • Privacy Concerns: Users are often unaware that their viewing habits are being monitored and analyzed continuously.

   John Chase [26:36]: “There is almost no such thing as smart TVs anymore because they're all smart. Any TV that you're gonna connect to the Internet almost certainly has Automatic Content Recognition.”

3. Security Cameras

   • Data Points Collected: Security cameras gather extensive data, including video footage, temperature, motion, and even facial recognition data.
   • Privacy Risks: The integration of AI in security cameras raises concerns about unauthorized access and misuse of visual data.

   John Chase [28:33]: “Security cameras actually collect the most data points... they have facial recognition.”

Legal and Regulatory Landscape

Christine expresses frustration over the lack of stringent regulations governing data privacy. John Chase elaborates on the slow pace of governmental response to technological advancements, highlighting state-level initiatives like California’s data broker registration and Europe’s GDPR as positive steps toward better data protection.

John Chase [19:36]: “There's next to no regulation around any of this. So we're just swimming around in this gray area.”

Protective Measures for Consumers

The episode provides actionable advice for listeners to safeguard their data:

1. Smart Speakers:

   • Mute devices when not in use.
   • Adjust privacy settings to limit or delete recordings.

   John Chase [32:18]: “You can go into any one of the control apps that are associated with the device and you can actually just turn that off.”

2. Smart TVs:

   • Disable ACR in the TV’s settings.
   • Opt out of data collection features whenever possible.

   John Chase [33:06]: “You are allowed to opt out, which so within, they do not make it easy necessarily.”

3. Security Cameras:

   • Choose cameras with robust security settings.
   • Limit placement to non-sensitive areas and utilize features like audio-only modes.

   John Chase [34:30]: “Shop for ones that have robust security settings and the ability to turn them on and off.”

Personal Reactions and Community Takeaways

The hosts share their personal resolutions to enhance their privacy:

• Kyra Blackwell: Decides to eliminate smart speakers from her home to mitigate privacy risks.

  Kyra Blackwell [37:02]: “Y' all will never catch me with a smart speaker ever.”

• Christine Cyr Clisset: Plans to switch her streaming devices to those with better privacy controls, such as Apple TV.

  Christine Cyr Clisset [37:18]: “I'm considering an Apple TV now. If I'm in the system, I'm in the Apple system. They already have my info, so might as well.”

Conclusion

The Wirecutter Show episode effectively illuminates the hidden data collection practices of everyday smart devices, emphasizing the importance of consumer awareness and proactive privacy management. By dissecting the functionalities of smart speakers, TVs, and security cameras, the hosts provide listeners with the knowledge to make informed decisions about their smart home setups. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to review their device settings and consider the privacy implications of the technology they invite into their homes.

Notable Quotes:

• Rosie Guerin [01:07]: “It started transcribing or describing the photo she sent... I was like, cancel, Cancel.”

• John Chase [06:24]: “Spy is a very charged term. You might just say they are paying attention, close attention.”

• John Chase [24:16]: “Alexa is always listening, but it's literally listening for a particular waveform, like a vocal code.”

• Kyra Blackwell [37:02]: “Y' all will never catch me with a smart speaker ever.”

• Christine Cyr Clisset [37:18]: “I'm considering an Apple TV now. If I'm in the system, I'm in the Apple system.”

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a crucial reminder of the balance between technological convenience and personal privacy. As smart devices become increasingly integrated into our daily lives, understanding and managing the data they collect is essential for maintaining control over personal information.

Transcript

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The Wirecutter show is supported by Rocket Mortgage. Your home is an active investment, not a passive one. And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away. When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family. Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property. Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts. Find out [e-mail] Rocket Mortgage, LLC, licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org through 3030.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so now we know what data they're collecting. Can you tell us who is this amorphous they who is actually collecting the data?

[John Chase]

It's a guy named Gary.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'm Rosie Guerin and you're listening to the Wirecutter Show. Hi, friends.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Hey there.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Hi.

[Rosie Guerin]

So we are talking about data privacy on the show today. And I've actually been thinking and kind of worrying a lot about it recently and maybe increasing since having kids. Okay, let me explain. I was in the car the other day and my wife texted me, sent me a text message. And so being the good safe driver I am, I had Siri play it. And my wife must have had the new Siri AI thing enabled because not only did it transcribe the words she wanted to text to me, it started transcribing or describing the photo she sent, which happened to be of my two children. And she's describing their features and their faces through. I was like, cancel, Cancel.

[Kyra Blackwell]

She being the AI, she being Siri?

[Rosie Guerin]

Yes.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Was she accurate?

[Rosie Guerin]

Not really, but I assume they're learning, right?

[John Chase]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

And so that really gave me pause and it started me thinking about the age we live in with these two polars. On the one hand, all we have been able to achieve from technology, from our lives being very connected, and on the other hand, relinquishing control of our data and therefore our privacy.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's happening around us all the time. I think we all kind of understand, or most of us understand, that when we're using things on the Internet, we're kind of relinquishing a little bit of our information every time we do that.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We actually published recently a bunch of articles around data privacy and security. And one of them we're going to talk about today, we're going to bring on John Chase, who is our supervising editor of smart home coverage at Wirecutter, and his team did this pretty intense deep dive into looking at the data that these different devices are collecting about Us. It's not surprising if you have a quote unquote smart device, like a smart speaker, that it's collecting data on you. I know that some people choose not to get these devices because of that, but what this team found is that a lot of devices in our homes that we may not think of as smart devices are actually collecting quite a lot of data. And it's pretty up in the air about what's actually happening with this data.

[John Chase]

So good.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm so glad that we gave up our freedoms for this convenience. Well, but, like, what's the.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You know, it's.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's tough because what's the recourse? Going and living off the grid, which actually kind of sounds really nice.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Learn how to farm.

[Rosie Guerin]

We're in this, I think.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so after the break, we're going to talk with John about which devices are spying on you, what they're looking for, and how to protect your data. Be right back.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The Wirecutter show is supported by Rocket Mortgage. Your home is an active investment, not a passive one. And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away. When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family. Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property. Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts. Find out [e-mail] Rocket Mortgage, LLC, licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030.

[John Chase]

Hey, I'm Joelle.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And I'm Juliette from New York Times Games.

[John Chase]

And we're out here talking to people about games.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You play New York Times games?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yes, every day.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Do you have a favorite connections?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It just makes you think.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I feel like it gives me elasticity.

[John Chase]

Create four groups of four.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Hmm.

[John Chase]

This is actually a pretty cool game. What's your favorite game? The crossword. The crossword. I do it with my brother. We get Thursday sometimes, but I don't think I couldn't do Thursday.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

On Wednesday, I feel like I'm learning. I feel like I'm accomplishing something. I like the do do do do do do do do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

When you finish it, my family does wordle and we have a huge group chat.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Like my grandma does wordle.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Your grandma does wordle?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Oh, every day.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. Do you have a Wordle hot take?

[John Chase]

You should start with a word that's strategically bad to make it more fun.

[Kyra Blackwell]

All of these games are so fun. Cause it's like a little 5 to 10 minute break.

[John Chase]

I love these games.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. New York Times subscribers get full access.

[John Chase]

To.

[Kyra Blackwell]

[e-mail] games for a special offer. Welcome back. With us now is John Chase. He's a supervising editor on the tech team who covers smart home devices for Wirecutter. He's also been writing about tech for over two decades. And a fun fact about John is that in addition to his impressive career in journalism, he's also worked as a TV writer for several game shows, including my favorite, Cash and who Wants to Be a Millionaire.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

John, welcome to the show.

[Rosie Guerin]

That's incredible. And also very much trex.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, yeah, you better say something funny on this episode.

[John Chase]

Whoa.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I just want to know if you got to ride in the Cash Cab.

[John Chase]

We followed the Cash Cab. Kind of like keeping up and making sure we could manage it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay. Well, John, right off the bat, I want to know which of my smart devices are spying on me because I know it has to be more than just like Alexa and Amazon.

[John Chase]

First off, we should tell anyone who's listening to this to mute their smart speakers because they're going to be triggered in more ways than one. I would say spy is a very charged term. You might just say they are paying attention, close attention. Yeah. So we like to say that data is the fuel of the smart home. Right? These devices, all of the amazing things they can do, they fully depend on creating and collecting data and synthesizing it and sending it to the cloud. Like that's just table stakes, Right. So you can't really get around that. I don't think anyone would be surprised that smart home devices are collecting data. That's what they do. But I definitely think there's a few that we encountered that are doing a whole lot more than we suspected. Like smart TVs were pretty egregious.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I often think of a smart home device as like a smart speaker, something that has smart in the title, a smart thermostat or something. But what are the devices we're really talking about in the home?

[John Chase]

So yes, a lot of times there's devices that are just wifi connected which aren't necessarily smart. We've always defined it as any device that has a control app, has the ability to be accessed remotely and connects to the Internet. And usually we bias towards ones that can be controlled using a third party platform, which many people are familiar with. If you have like Google home, Amazon, Alexa, Apple home. So that's sort of the broad definition. But you know, you've got your smart speakers, you've got your smart light bulbs, thermostats like your Nest and Ecobee, things like that. There's also A lot of kitchen appliances have for a long time, you know, like Amazon put out an Alexa powered microwave. Why I know an Alexa powered clock. And so there's a lot of stuff out there that may not even be labeled smart, but has the ability to be connected.

[Rosie Guerin]

Until I have a robot that can take my food and put it into the microwave, I don't understand the purpose of having, being able to be far away and having Alexa turn on.

[John Chase]

First off, that's what kids are for. You tell the kids to put the stuff in the microwave. I get that. But I think one of the things I sometimes feel like I'm like a smart home apologist, but it's really, it's problem solving and there's a lot of people like one of the things we've really learned in the past few years is with the excess accessibility community, people who have mobility issues, things like that. A bulb that goes on and off at a set time for someone who has the inability to turn off light bulbs is a godsend.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You know, turn fans on when it's hot, turn your AC on, change the temperature. Yeah, there's definitely some real, real use cases that benefit.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's life changing.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, it can be really life transforming.

[John Chase]

And then back to what I said before, all of that depends on data.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I know a bunch of people who refuse to get a smart speaker because they are concerned with these dev is listening in on them or you know, kind of collecting their data. You just listed some like many devices, many other types of devices, things that people might not think of as smart devices. What exactly is the type of data that they're collecting?

[John Chase]

So there's like personal data type stuff which we I'll talk about in a second. And then there's also just functional data type stuff. So I'll give the example of like a thermostat, like a smart thermostat, you know, it's checking the temperature nearby. Some of them have a motion sensor, some of them also have a presence sensor and they might even have other sensors that are remote. And it also connects to the Internet and it learns over time. If the temperature is X degrees outside and it is this inside and the weather is this, it'll take this amount of time for your heat to fully heat or cool your house. Right. That's like functional data. And then on top of that though it may have your address. If you pair it with other devices, then those devices, they talk to each other. They talk to each other. And if you connect it to a third party service, say like Amazon Alexa or Google Home or something like that. Then things start to get what I will use the technical term, hinky, because it becomes really, really confusing. And I think the issue we're all gonna be talking about here is just how no mere mortal has the capacity to really gauge what's going on.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

None of us really know how much of our personal or situational data is out there at this point.

[John Chase]

That's right. The smart speakers is probably the most obvious example of people getting skeeved out. Another technical term, there's some truth, and then there's also a lot of sort of anecdotal, weird stuff that happens. And I think it kind of colors the whole experience. And I'll just state, you know, blankly. I'll just state like, we spoke with all these companies. We've tested these things for years. I've spoken with. There's this great researcher who works at Georgia Tech who has tested all these devices. They give you a signal when they're listening and listening. And they are. They're always listening. If you have an. I'll just use Alexa as an example, because it's the foremost example. And Alexa is always listening, but it's literally listening for a particular waveform, like a vocal code. And that's what's called the wake word. So for some, you can change it. It's Alexa by default. But you could say computer, you can say echo, that kind of stuff. Eventually, it'll hear that tone, and it perks up and it signals that it's perked up. There's a light, so you know visually that it has happened. And if it's a wrong thing, it'll just kind of fade and then delete the recording. And if it's correct and you actually are communicating with it, it will interact with you and that kind of stuff. And that does go to the cloud. And now, depending on your settings, we can talk about what that actually means, but, like, you can opt to have that recording saved or not. And depending on the platform, you can also. Meaning the device. You can also decide whether it records or not. Like, for instance, Google speakers don't actually save recordings by default, which was a great surprise to us.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So I feel like a lot of people might think that an Alexa speaker is listening literally all the time. Like, you hear people say, like, I was talking with my friend about a toothbrush that I really wanted, and then next thing you know, I get a toothbrush ad, so it must be listening to me all the time. It sounds like that's not actually happening.

[John Chase]

Yeah. So There is a phenomenon, what you're talking about, and I don't know if there's a name for it, but there is a thing where people are like, oh, we were talking about Aruba or a baseball bat or some kind of thing like that, and then it shows up in your feed. My understanding, I spoke with a whole bunch of people about this. Your device. Almost all of us could walk around with a smartphone with us, right? When you connect to the Internet, you have what's called an IP address, which is, like, specific to you. And if you're connected to WI fi and someone else is connected to WI Fi and someone else is connected to WI Fi, you become associated. And so then you might also travel to other places, and you might also search for certain things, and suddenly it just all becomes algorithmic. There's basically an association. There's data profiles of people, and these live on your phones, they live in your laptops. These devices collect information on you on your search habits, your location, things like that. And they allegedly get anonymized, but ads are served to you based on those things. So if there's an affinity, if you are around other people, they might be like, oh, okay, well, she's a. We think she's a white woman who's 21, obviously. Obviously, yes. And she traveled to Florida and also does this and does this. And they might serve you the same ads, and it might be that any one of you might have searched for something recently, and that ends up being the trigger.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This happened to me recently because Kyra showed me this swimming pool she went to, and it popped up on my Instagram feed, and I was like, I've never searched this, but I'll bet you.

[John Chase]

You searched it, right?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Probably to show Christine, but you searched.

[John Chase]

It, and you're affiliated with her because of your address. And so therefore, it's like, there's a pretty good better than not chance that this would interest her.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So it wasn't because we vocally talked about it together in this studio. It was because she had searched for it on her phone, and our phones were in the same room.

[John Chase]

That's right.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That's so creepy.

[John Chase]

But also, you guys probably Galavant, and you're associated in multiple places, and that gives you, like, oh, well, she likes nice restaurants and she likes. You go clubbing a lot. I know. And there's like. But, like, all that kind of stuff. It's like, you know, it adds up to this profile, the data profile. And the data profile is like, that's where you start getting really icky.

[Rosie Guerin]

So John, you talked about the functional data that's being collected. What other kind of data is being collected from these smart devices?

[John Chase]

Sure. So as we talked about, when you're setting up a device, you use an app and the app will probably ask you, depending what the device is, it might say what's your address? Because I need to know that for geolocation, which is like where you are on the earth. Where you are on the earth and that's used for a lot of really cool functions. You can have things turn on and off when you leave and come home from your house or something like that. It might be email, phone number, you might have billing associated with it, you might have a credit card. But there's also stuff like there's your IP address. Right. And that is not, not necessarily personal, but it's one of those things that once it becomes associated with you, all of the IP addresses that you travel around the world and connect to all become part of a profile and they make you more and more findable. You also might have health data.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I was going to ask about health data. I have an Apple Watch, I work out with my Apple Watch and I've started using Apple Fitness and the fitness app and my Apple Watch are integrated. When you're using a device like that, presumably that data is going into your profile. Like things like your weight and other metrics that are in there, right?

[John Chase]

Yes. I will say Apple actually has really good policies around that. But if you have a non Apple thing like a headphone. Right? Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Like I sometimes use my Soundcore headphones with my Apple Watch.

[John Chase]

Right. So those can, there are no rules really around health data. So any app, like if you have a, and a lot of headphones now have cardiac monitors and sleep monitors or all this kind of stuff, they actually can access your health data and they have willy nilly access to it. They can do whatever they want with it. But HIPAA is like, it doesn't protect people anywhere near as much as they think it does.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so now we know what data they're collecting. Can you tell us who is this amorphous they, who is actually collecting the data?

[John Chase]

It's a guy named Gary.

[Rosie Guerin]

Come on, Gary.

[John Chase]

Yeah. Oh. So the companies themselves, one of the things we kind of learned is large companies are actually tend to be much more trustworthy than small companies. Not out of any sense of malice, but because a lot of times smaller companies simply do not have the technical chops to do the security testing.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So when things fall through the cracks, who is it going to who's buying it?

[John Chase]

Great question. So there's companies that own it themselves and people talk about like Amazon, Amazon is a giant sales company. Or like they, they want data about you to put products your way and they have millions of partners. So they state unequivocally, we do not sell data that is collected, but they're still using it. Right. But also Google, Google is an advertising company. Right? So they are, they also help make ads for other companies. And so, you know, I spoke with someone who had been like a higher level product specialist about this stuff and he was like, yeah, we don't give the data that we collect to those other companies, but they're putting your data to work. And then there's data brokers, which are these companies that they scour public records. Probably work with credit card companies, Credit card companies monetize your data. Right? Data brokers find ways to get all this data outside of that. So there's the companies themselves have their data, and then there's external companies that are just, just finding inroads and trying to monetize it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So how are the data brokers like, you've got all this smart home data that has been collected about you. The companies that own the devices or that have made the devices have this data. How are these data brokers accessing your data?

[John Chase]

I will say I can't state unequivocally that every company works this way. But we spoke with some people at DuckDuckGo, which is a privacy company, right? They did a sample of, you know, the top huge chunk of Android apps that are downloadable. And it was in the high 90% of them would have Google Analytics in those apps. And that's because Google, Facebook and other companies like that, they help small companies make apps easier. And in doing so, they have their software in there. So even though you may not have an association with Google, you may be using an app that has Google Analytics in it. So they would get some of your data. So the idea that like, even though these companies say your data is anonymous, outside companies, data brokers, it's a statistical.

[Kyra Blackwell]

They can just piece it all together.

[John Chase]

They can piece it all together. So even it's anonymous, it's. Oh, no, we protected it. We've anonymized data. Well, yes, but once they have an association. From here, from here, from here, from here, Data brokers specialize in unearthing this information, selling it to the highest bidder, and it gets used for useful purposes. But at the same time, people have been stalked. Law enforcement uses these. It's used at the border, ICE uses it, insurance companies use it. They may or may not decide to cover you. And the greater overarching concern here is you don't know what data is collected on you, you don't know how true it is and you have no access to it. Those are the real problems. And there's next to no regulation around any of this. So we're just swimming around in this like gray area and all this is happening around us constantly.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I gotta know why is this legal? Why, why do we live in a culture and a society like this can.

[John Chase]

Happen because Cha Ching money, money. I would say the history of technology and innovation when it comes to the government is a history of the government running frantically behind with a briefcase that has papers flying out of it and a floppy hat and wait, we're trying to catch up. And there's vested interests that are like, oh, we're gonna make a lot of money and people wanna protect that. And there's also just. It's like the wheels of justice move slowly kind of thing. It's like you don't want the government to walk in with a hammer and just slam down and stop inn innovation. But at the same time, you know, we've struggled to find a system that keeps tabs. The innovations happen so quickly. We're seeing this with AI especially, you know.

[Kyra Blackwell]

All right, well, I don't want to hear anymore.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We're done here. That's right, I'm gonna go into my bunker.

[John Chase]

But, but so it is totally, it's disturbing, it's annoying, etc. But the better news is on a state by state level, there are legislation, California, you know, always at the fore with this stuff. They have a legislation that has come out where data brokers who actually have to register. So it isn't hopeless in so much as the states are taking on some of the burden here. There's also a program called the Cyber Trust Mark program, which is supposed to basically be like a food label type thing, nutrition label, that will be on smart devices in particular. And that's actually in the works. And as hopeful would basically say it does this, it does this, it meets these standards. And then there's also the example of Europe where they, you know, have passed. I think it's GDPR probably had all those pop ups every time you access a website that are like, do you submit to these cookies? And that kind of, that's essentially from that it's a step forward. It basically holds these companies accountable and allows people to sort of opt out of data collection policies. So, okay. Yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay. So to quickly recap, it sounds like it's more than just your smart speaker that's kind of learning about you. It's really anything that can be connected to the Internet that you're probably using for convenience has the ability to maybe collect your data. And there isn't really much oversight on how much they can collect just from a government level. And it sounds like there isn't much incentive for that to change, but things are maybe moving in the right direction on a state by state basis. The way that you are describing these companies collecting data kind of reminds me of when you go to a bookstore and they, they cover the book cases in like a brown paper bag, essentially, and they write like a description on the bag and it's like, if this sounds like it's for you, you should buy this book. Companies are doing that to our data and quote unquote, anonymizing us and selling it to the highest bidder, essentially. Right?

[John Chase]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we're back, we're going to get into more details about how specific devices you may own are collecting your data. We're also going to talk about the ways you can keep these devices from collecting all that data. Basically some safety measures that you should probably take. We'll be right back. The Wirecutter show is supported by Rocket Mortgage. Your home is an active investment, not a passive one. And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away. When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family, renovations, extensions, even buying your next property. Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts. Find out [e-mail] Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org.

[John Chase]

I'm Wesley Morris. I'm a critic for the New York Times, and I'm the host of a brand new podcast called Cannonball. We're gonna talk about that song you can't get out of your head, that TV show you watched and can't stop thinking about and the movie that you saw when you were a kid that made you who you are, whether you like it or not. I was so embarrassed the whole time because it's a bad film and I still love it. You, you can find Cannonball on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rosie Guerin]

Welcome back. John, in your article, you highlighted three main devices that you know perhaps are the most culpable here. Smart speakers, smart tv, security cameras, which include video doorbells. Can you briefly explain how each of these devices is collecting your data? Let's start with smart speakers.

[John Chase]

Sure. Like with a smart speaker, all of them, there's a setup thing and it's related to an app. So you're incorporating these devices into like what we call a platform. It's essentially an app. And so they have like your basic stuff, your name, your home. They might have access to your contacts, they might have access to, depending on the device, might have access to your photos. Right. Like if you have one that has a screen on it. If you sync them up with other devices, which is very common, may have access to whatever those devices are collecting, you know, and then on top of that, with a smart speaker, you're talking to it, you're asking it questions, you are teaching it. You are teaching it. Exactly. And honestly, that's about to get a magnitude, many magnitudes greater. Because the current versions, I'll say of, say Alexa, they learn a little bit, but they don't actually learn in a meaningful way about you. For instance, the new version of Alexa, it will be learning deeply about you. Like, you can tell it things like, oh, hey, Alexa, I'm allergic to gluten, I hate Bob Seger, and I only drive Fords. It will internalize that. And whenever it's answering you or things like that, it will in theory use that in making suggestions.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Because of AI, right?

[John Chase]

Because of AI, yeah, it's generative AI or learning. There's language learning models and all that kind of stuff. But it's basically, it's a different way of interacting with these things they're actually learning. So that's kind of what's coming.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Can we talk about TVs now? Because I think this is the most mind blowing thing that I read in your article. It's like when I'm watching Severance, my TV is watching me. So how is that happening?

[John Chase]

It's watching your innie.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Oh, God, no, no, you're outie. My outie?

[John Chase]

You're outie. I was watching your outing. Or is it. I don't know, it's both. Yeah, TVs were like. After we did our sort of initial research, Lee Neikirk, who covers this, like, sort of very casually presented this information and everyone's jaw was dropping. Essentially there's a technology called acr, Automatic Content recognition. And it's essentially like if you've ever used, you know, the most common one is like Shazam or something like that, where you want to identify a song, A song or something. There's technology like that built into most every tv. We don't know of a TV that doesn't have it, that's been made.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So it doesn't have to be labeled like a smart TV to have this.

[John Chase]

There's almost no such thing as smart TVs anymore, because they're all smart. Any TV that you're gonna connect to the Internet or anything like that, they almost certainly have Automatic content recognition. ACR. What happens is you're watching TV. Every couple seconds, the TVs taking functionally what is a screenshot of what is on your screen, sends it up to the Internet, it's analyzed, and then it's added to a data profile. And then that is sold, shared, packaged, whatever. And now if you will also have something plugged into your tv. Anything that goes on your screen, this is what's. It's like this amazing thing where it's like it recognizes what's there. So you could have like, it's not even what's streaming through your tv.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Slideshows of your kids, slideshows of your education or something.

[John Chase]

So now I don't know that what happens on the far end, like, they might just be like, oh, blobby shapes. You know, it's not identifying your kids or something like that. But it also. So it's out there and you have no idea that. And so the crazy thing is you sort of opt into this almost certainly accidentally. Like if you buy a new TV and you hit yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Boom. One of those is almost certainly acr. They might have a branded name for it. Also, if you use a. Let's say your TV itself isn't connected to the Internet, but you have a Google TV or Roku especially, or a Fire Stick. Those also have acr. I will say Apple TV is the only company we found that of the large companies that does not have ACR.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Built in, well, they already have our phones. So, like, they already have all of my data.

[Rosie Guerin]

What do you need?

[John Chase]

But if you have your TV as connected to the Internet and you plug an Apple TV into it, anything you watch the Apple TV, the TVs going to see it and the TV is going to send it all.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, one last device. Let's talk about security cameras. You know, I don't think it's surprising. These things are meant to watch you. That's the whole point, right? Yes, but it is surprising the data that these are collecting. Tell us about that.

[John Chase]

Yeah, so Rachel Sara Cola reported on this and she referenced a surfshark. Did A study which surfshark is like a VPN security company, and they said that among all the typical smart home devices, security cameras actually collect the most data points. Not volume of data necessarily, but the different types of data. And that's because cameras have their visual. They also might have. They have temperature sensors. Nest cameras have facial recognition. Some people are like, hey, that's very cool. You know, I can go back and search for all the times that, you know, my Cease came in my door. Yes, Mr. Thief. That's my neighbor, Mr. Thief. But you can also understand why that might. Someone coming to your door might not want their image on there because who knows what's happening to it online now. Again, Nest has a very comprehensive and relatively accessible privacy policy, but there's a lot of gray area in there. There are some states that have proactively banned this because they say, oh, you should not have the ability to take someone's face and label it and put it on the Internet kind of thing.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, I like that. I like that rule. We should add more of that everywhere.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

John, based on the first half of this show, I am now completely terrified and I am not willing to have any smart devices in my home.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I don't know.

[John Chase]

I failed. I have failed you.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm going back to a rotary phone. I am moving to the country. No, in all honesty though, it sounds pretty concerning. Like, I don't want these devices to collect so much about me. But I know that you have a lot of smart devices and clearly you're not getting rid of all of them. You're not going into your bunker. Why do you feel comfortable having all of these smart devices in your home?

[John Chase]

I think there is absolutely a comfort level thing. I think also having covered security for a good long while, I feel like for the most part what happens with smart home is not that very different than what is happening by using the Internet and using a smartphone. I do take a basic measures that I think are useful and they do limit extreme exposure. But I also understand this is kind of, it's a cost benefit type thing. One of the security people we spoke with was like, he talked about security cameras and he was saying, he's like, I analyze all these devices. I know what their pitfalls are. He's like, but I feel more protected having security cameras outside than the alternative not having them. And he said, however, I don't have. He's like, I got little kids and I don't like having cameras inside. But we cover small security cameras a lot and we do recommend a bunch of indoor ones. And then you can have them only trigger when there's a pet. You can have them only trigger during certain hours. You can have some of them. You can have them as you come home, they turn off when you leave. They go back on that kind of stuff. You shouldn't just be casual about bringing any one of these devices into your home. You should really be thoughtful about it. And I do think one of the things we've learned is do not buy rando devices that you see the cheap thing with nine consonants in a row and one vowel named for some, you know, knockoff of some real device. We work really hard on our picks and we vet them and we trust them. But trust but verify, right? Like that's our whole thing. So I don't think you should be incautious around these at all. But I don't think it's completely justified that, like, these are any worse than right.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So you need to kind of run cost benefit analysis on each device you're using in your life and just be.

[John Chase]

Prudent like you do with anything else. It's sort of like use good passwords, right? Like, if you don't use bad passwords, you know, don't make it easy.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So let's talk a little bit about what people can do to protect their data. Let's break it down by the devices that we just talked about. So let's talk through the smart speakers, let's talk through the TVs, and let's talk through the cameras. What are the steps people can do?

[John Chase]

So, you know, you interact with the smart speakers, with your voice. And so if you're unhappy with your voice potentially being recorded and sent out there, you can go into any one of the control apps that are associated with the device and you can actually just turn that off. You can within the privacy settings. There's a way to do it. I'm not going to describe it for each one right now, but there's the ability to either limit recordings or stop them altogether, or you can go back and delete old ones, things like that. So that's really basic. You can opt to not have a precise location. You can sometimes just put in a zip code or something like that when you're setting these up. You can also use email addresses that are not your. Their main email address, which we talked.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

About in our episode from a couple months ago with Max Eddy, and we'll link to that episode in the show notes. Okay, what about TVs?

[John Chase]

TVs is more in depth, essentially. There is one regulation, yay. That is, if you have ACR built into a TV, they are required to make it optional. You are allowed to opt out, which so within, they do not make it easy necessarily. But you're going to have to dig in on the settings and same thing, I believe, with the Roko and stuff like that. You have to go in and actively turn it off. It may not be called acr, it may have another name. You can probably go to the support page and they'll guide you through it or something like that. But basically you're gonna go in and turn off one or more. Sometimes there's a few settings. It's about data collection, watching habits, other stuff like that. But you. Yeah, turn it off.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, so let's talk about security cameras. What should people do there?

[John Chase]

Yeah, so I sort of mentioned how like one of the people we spoke with was like, yeah, I don't have them inside. But what you can do, you can shop for ones that have robust security settings and the ability to turn them on and off. Don't put them in sensitive areas. I mean, I know a lot of people, you know, like they have kids and they'll have like a baby camera. It's not the same thing as a security camera, but, you know, those may be going up to the cloud. You may want to have thoughts around that, like make sure that the company has really secure data handling practices. I just used one that was audio only. And you can opt to not use AI with the cameras. That makes them helpful, but it's an option.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So it sounds like with all of these devices as well, you really want to know that you are buying a product that is from a relatively trustworthy company. And so like, of course I'm going to plug wirecutter picks. If you're listening and you're kind of wondering and you want to shortcut it. We've done a lot of research, but if you're going to go out into the wilderness and try to do this on your own, you need to do your homework and just really sort out whether the companies have good data privacy policies.

[John Chase]

Absolutely. And that's what we do, is we do your homework for you, you know, and that's why these are especially important picks. Cause the stakes are so high.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so before we wrap, we always ask our guests one last question. John, what's the last thing you bought that you've really loved?

[John Chase]

The last wire cutter pick I bought that I really loved. I will be honest with you, I haven't used it yet. It's like seeing A Christmas present under the tree. I'm so excited. One of my neighbors bought a Ryobi power washer. I'm gonna give you the really eloquent.

[Rosie Guerin]

There was a wind up to a power washer.

[John Chase]

I live big. Maybe you've heard of the Ryobi Ry1419 MTV and 1900 psi electric pressure.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Wow, that does sound like a Christmas present right there.

[John Chase]

Well, so I heard my. I was like, what is that horrible noise or whatever? Like, what has that been going on all day long? And then I borrowed it and it was like, I can't find enough uses for it. I mean, it's awesome. So I'm unreasonably excited to get home and open that thing up. Wow.

[Rosie Guerin]

Joan, I'm so happy for you. And I'm grateful that you have joined us today to talk about what has been undoubtedly harrowing, but also incredibly instructive. So thank you so, so much.

[John Chase]

It is my pleasure.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, are we all creeped out now by all of the data that everything is collecting about us?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Terrified.

[Rosie Guerin]

Thanks.

[John Chase]

Horrified. Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Thank you so much for checking in.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, well, what did you learn today? What are you taking away?

[Rosie Guerin]

I learned a lot. One of the things I'm taking away as soon as possible. Apple TVs are not opting into this automatic ACR. That's that feature that enables smart TVs to screenshot the TV and then send your data right up into the cloud. That makes me want to buy one like today.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Another takeaway is to just keep, generally speaking, keep an eye out on AI advances across all of these smart devices and just being more vigilant.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that's part of my takeaway too. I definitely need to be more diligent about opting out of things. You know, when you download an app, don't let it. It just take all your data immediately. Also, y' all will never catch me with a smart speaker ever. I think I'm just not going to risk it. How about you, Christine?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, you know, I think I now understand why I am getting served certain ads when I didn't Google something. So now I. I'm understanding a little bit more about how I'm in a network with all of you and then you're in a network probably with people I know. So just the web, the matrix, basically. And like Rosie, I think I'm going to switch my streaming stick. I have a Roku streaming stick. The first thing I'm going to do when I get home is turn the ACR off. And then, yeah, I'm considering an Apple TV now. If I'm in the system, I'm in the Apple system. They already have my info, so might as well.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'll look online for a promo code for one.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Rosie Guerin]

My absolute pleasure. And if you want to find out more about Wirecutter's coverage or if you want to check out any of the products John recommended today, you can check out our website. You can find a link in our show notes. That's it for us. Have a good week. Bye.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Bye.

[Rosie Guerin]

The Wirecutter show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Alicia Ba? Itupe and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor in chief.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Rosie Guerin]

And I'm Rosie Guerin. Thank you for listening.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

By the way, why is this legal?

[John Chase]

Sleep. Sleep well tonight, my children.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The Wirecutter show is supported by Rocket Mortgage. Your home is an active investment, not a passive one. And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away. When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family. Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property. Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts. Find out [e-mail] Rocket Mortgage, LLC. Licensed in 57 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030.