The Wirecutter Show

Episode: How To Maximize Credit Card Points for Travel

Date: October 10, 2025
Hosts: Christine Cyr Clisset, Caira Blackwell, Rosie Guerin
Guest: Brian Kelly (The Points Guy), author of How to Win at Travel

Episode Overview

This bonus episode explores the essentials of maximizing credit card points for travel. Host Rosie Guerin interviews points-and-miles expert Brian Kelly (“The Points Guy”) to demystify travel hacking, explain ways to get the most out of everyday spending, and outline pitfalls to avoid. The discussion focuses on actionable strategies to stretch your travel budget, how to pick the right card for your needs, and smart tips for redeeming and managing rewards safely.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Brian Kelly’s Origin Story & The Points Game

• How Brian Started: Brian shares his early experience with points, booking family trips as a kid and learning the ropes by being persistent and polite with airline agents.
  • "There is a points guy and yes, it's me...my real points origin story was in 1995...I was able to use all of our points. In 1996 we went to Grand Cayman and we took this trip for peanuts." ([05:49])
• Encouraging kids’ involvement: Brian advocates giving children ownership over travel planning, helping develop lifelong skills.
  • "I would say to any parent out there, give your kids ownership of trips. I think it teaches so many skills..." ([07:16])

2. Why Credit Cards Offer Points & How Programs Work

• How rewards are funded: Merchants pay ~2% per transaction; banks pass 1% of this back to users as rewards.
  • “Never feel bad about getting your portion back...there’s so much competition. They all have to compete to give you more value back.” ([08:07])
• Risks and responsibilities: The value of points hinges on paying off balances—otherwise, high interest (APR) negates the gains.
  • "If you're carrying balances, do not get travel rewards credit cards. The APRs will eat you alive...what you're paying in interest will negate all the value of those points and more." ([08:47])

3. Credit Card Basics: APR, Sign-Up Bonuses, and Pitfalls

• Annual Percentage Rate (APR) explained: It’s the high interest paid on unpaid balances.
  • “Annual percentage rate is the percent you’re gonna pay for borrowing money...on credit cards, it's really high. It may be over 30%.” ([09:56])
• Sign-up bonuses: Big lure, but require hitting a spending minimum—mind the fine print.
  • "Including the annual fee for the card does not count towards the spend. And also the clock starts ticking not when you activate the card...it's when you get approved." ([10:40])
• Advice: Start slowly, focus on one card, and be sure to spend responsibly.

4. Types of Rewards & Who Should Use Them

a) Cashback

• Simple, predictable—good for non-travelers or very budget-conscious consumers.
  • "People who have no interest in traveling, who might have really tight budgets...should at least be getting cash back. That is the baseline." ([12:55])

b) Co-branded Rewards

• Airline/hotel cards offer perks like free bags and upgrades. Good for brand-loyal travelers.
  • "If you check bags and fly Delta all the time...think about it...one round trip, you're paying 150 bucks for a card, but you're saving 400 a trip." ([13:42])

c) Transferable Points (e.g., Chase, Amex)

• Most flexible and valuable: bank points that can be transferred to partner airlines/hotels.
  • "Most points experts will say put most of your spend on a transferable point card...because it opens up a world of opportunities." ([14:34])

5. The Strategy: Maximizing Everyday Spending

• Evaluate your spending patterns: Identify your biggest categories (dining, groceries, gas) and match cards with top multipliers for those areas.
  • “Take out their monthly budget. Look at the major categories...find the credit card that has the highest multiplier in that category.” ([15:12])
• Consider fees vs. rewards: Weigh annual fees against value provided.

6. Planning & Using Points: The Flexible Approach

• Don’t lock into a single airline: Hold transferable points until you know where you want to go.
  • “One of my best tips these days is accrue valuable points, these transferable points, and let the deals tell you where you go on vacation.” ([17:06])
• Devaluation risk: Airlines can suddenly require more points for similar redemptions; spreading points across programs mitigates this.

7. Buying Points: When (and When Not) to Do It

• Only buy if you have a specific high-value redemption in mind.
  • "Buying points is only for people...if you've done the math and you know the redemption." ([18:07])
  • Example: Buying Hilton points for a luxury hotel can be vastly cheaper than paying cash; similar with Air France Flying Blue miles for business class flights.
    • "So you can spend 2,000 to book direct, or you can buy $600 to get a free night via points. Okay. And Hilton gives the fifth night free when redeeming for points, not when paying." ([18:37])
• Refund flexibility: Award tickets/hotel bookings made on points are often fully refundable.
  • "When you redeem miles, it is a refundable ticket. So don't compare it to what basic economy costs...that's a full fare ticket, meaning up until one minute before departure, you can cancel, get all your miles back for free." ([19:39])

8. Pro Travel Hacking: Points as "Travel Insurance" and Dynamic Rebooking

• Booking backup reservations: Use points to make alternate flight bookings in case of delays or cancellations, then cancel the unused ones for a full refund.
  • "Having points is like an insurance policy because...I'm on my phone instantly booking backup reservations on different airlines...If my original flight ends up going out, I click one button to get all my miles back for the other reservations." ([20:25])
• Monitor award fares: After booking points travel, re-check fares—if point requirements drop, rebook for a refund of excess miles.
  • "Keep checking. And if the price goes down, most programs will let you cancel and rebook at the lower rate and get your miles back." ([20:53])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Travel Hacking as a Lifelong Game
  "It's a game and it's still a game to this day. The game has changed fundamentally, but the game can still be won for sure." – Brian Kelly ([06:44])
• On Credit Card Company Profits
  “Trust me, they're making a lot of it. So never feel bad about getting your portion back.” – Brian Kelly ([08:07])
• On Responsible Use
  "If you're in a situation where you're in debt paying high APR, my recommendations today are not geared towards you." – Brian Kelly ([09:32])
• On Letting Points Guide You
  "Let the deals tell you where you go on vacation." – Brian Kelly ([17:06])
• On Points as Insurance
  "Having points is like an insurance policy because guess what? When airlines start delaying and canceling my flight...I'm on my phone instantly booking backup reservations on different airlines." – Brian Kelly ([20:25])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:17 — Rosie welcomes Brian Kelly and asks about his background as "The Points Guy"
• 08:07 — Why credit cards offer points, and how the rewards ecosystem works
• 09:53 — Importance of avoiding debt; APR explained
• 10:40 — Tips and pitfalls on signup bonuses and annual fees
• 12:35 — Types of reward currencies (cashback, co-branded, transferable)
• 15:12 — How to maximize everyday spending for points
• 17:06 — Why flexibility with points is so valuable
• 18:07 — When (and when not) to buy points, with concrete examples
• 19:39 — Awards tickets flexibility and how points booking acts as a travel safety net
• 20:25 — Using points for backup travel; tips on rebooking and fare drops

Conclusion

Brian Kelly distills complex points strategies into relatable, actionable advice, with a strong emphasis on responsible spending and using points as a flexible tool to enhance and protect your travel. The overarching message: Know your spending, understand your goals, and let flexibility and value, not just aspirational travel, drive your approach to points.

Safe travels!