Love Your Mattress

Summary

Title: "Love Your Mattress" – Comprehensive Summary of The Wirecutter Show Episode

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Wirecutter Show
• Host/Author: The New York Times
• Episode: Love Your Mattress
• Release Date: February 12, 2025

Hosts:

• Christine Cyr Clisset
• Kyra Blackwell
• Producer: Rosie Guerin

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Introduction: The Importance of a Good Mattress

In the February 12, 2025 episode of The Wirecutter Show titled "Love Your Mattress," co-hosts Christine Cyr Clisset and Kyra Blackwell, along with producer Rosie Guerin, dive deep into the world of mattresses. They explore how essential a quality mattress is for achieving better sleep and overall well-being. The episode is timely, coinciding with Wirecutter's annual Sleep Week and President's Day sales, making it an ideal moment for listeners to consider upgrading their bedding.

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Mattress Testing: Behind the Scenes

Kyra Blackwell provides an insider look into the meticulous process of testing mattresses for Wirecutter.

Key Points:

• Extensive Evaluation: Kyra has been testing mattresses for over two and a half years, handling nearly 100 different models ([04:10]).
• Logistical Challenges: Managing multiple queen-sized mattresses in a compact space, especially in a New York City apartment without an elevator, adds complexity ([04:34]-[04:40]).
• Anonymized Testing: To ensure unbiased reviews, mattresses are covered, and brands remain concealed during testing ([05:02]).
• Long-Term Use: Each finalist mattress is tested in her apartment for a minimum of seven nights to identify defects and assess real-world performance ([05:34]-[06:31]).

Notable Quote:

"There’s nothing more nightmarish than 12 queen size mattresses into an office." – Kyra Blackwell ([04:10])

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Kyra’s Wildest Testing Experience: The $75,000 Hastens Mattress

One of Kyra’s most memorable testing experiences involved a luxury Hastens mattress, costing approximately $75,000 for the entire bed setup.

Highlights:

• Luxury and Quality: Made with horsehair and natural materials like cotton, flax, and wool. Known for its handmade craftsmanship ([07:08]-[07:43]).
• Celebrity Endorsements: Prominent figures like Martha Stewart and Drake are notable users ([07:28]-[07:58]).
• Durability Claim: Hastens claims their mattress can last a lifetime ([07:43], [07:58]).
• Personal Verdict: Kyra admits it's the best mattress she's ever slept on but cautions against its exorbitant price for the average consumer ([08:10]-[09:12]).

Notable Quote:

"It’s the best mattress that I’ve ever slept on. But I am by no means telling you to go out and spend a year's salary and some change on a mattress." – Kyra Blackwell ([08:10])

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Determining If Your Mattress is the Problem

Kyra discusses signs that indicate your mattress may be affecting your sleep quality.

Key Indicators:

• Physical Discomfort: Waking up with sore back or achy joints ([11:47]).
• Frequent Waking: Interrupted sleep not caused by external factors like children ([11:47]).
• Mattress Firmness: Too firm can cause pressure points; too soft can lead to poor spinal alignment ([13:24]-[14:37]).

Solutions:

• Start with Pillows: Often, discomfort is due to inadequate pillow support, not the mattress itself ([12:21]-[13:24]).
• Use a Mattress Topper: For mattresses that are too firm, adding a topper can enhance comfort without the need for a full replacement ([13:24]-[14:34]).

Notable Quote:

"If you feel like your mattress is too firm, [...] get a topper. [...] any of these could make your mattress couchier." – Kyra Blackwell ([13:24])

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Understanding Mattress Longevity

Most mattresses have a lifespan ranging from seven to ten years, depending on the type and quality.

Factors Affecting Longevity:

• Material Quality: Foam mattresses tend to be more durable than those with plush tops ([15:12]-[16:37]).
• Usage Patterns: Regular rotation and proper support can extend a mattress’s life ([16:21]-[16:37]).
• Signs of Wear: Indentations and sloping indicate the need for replacement ([16:37]-[16:54]).

Notable Quote:

"I would expect most mattresses to last between seven and 10 years." – Kyra Blackwell ([15:12])

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Types of Mattresses: Pros and Cons

Kyra breaks down the various types of mattresses to help listeners make informed decisions.

1. Memory Foam:

   • Pros: Conforms to the body, excellent motion isolation ([28:28]-[28:58]).
   • Cons: Can trap heat, may feel too sinky for some sleepers ([28:47]).

2. Hybrid:

   • Pros: Combines foam and springs, offering both support and comfort. Ideal for couples with different preferences ([29:27]-[30:03]).
   • Cons: Generally more expensive than all-foam mattresses ([29:27]).

3. Innerspring:

   • Pros: Bouncy and supportive, good edge support ([31:06]-[31:56]).
   • Cons: Less common today, can be less durable without modern enhancements ([31:48]).

Notable Quote:

"A hybrid has a mix of foam and springs [...] it’s kind of just the best of both worlds." – Kyra Blackwell ([29:27])

---

Shopping Tips: In-Store vs. Direct-to-Consumer

Choosing where to buy a mattress significantly impacts the purchasing experience.

In-Store Shopping:

• Pros: Ability to physically test mattresses, immediate assistance, potential for negotiation ([22:09]-[24:11]).
• Cons: High-pressure sales tactics, time-consuming ([22:09]-[24:11]).

Direct-to-Consumer (Online) Shopping:

• Pros: Convenience, generous return policies, often lower prices ([22:53]-[23:03]).
• Cons: Inability to test before buying, environmental concerns due to high return rates ([23:03]-[23:28]).

Kyra’s Recommendations:

• Always visit a store to test potential mattresses if possible, even if planning to buy online later ([22:09]-[24:11]).
• Leverage sales during President’s Day, Memorial Day, and Black Friday for better deals ([20:39]-[20:53]).

Notable Quote:

"You should never pay full price for anything." – Kyra Blackwell ([20:39])

---

Assessing Your Sleep Needs

Understanding your sleep style and body metrics is crucial for selecting the right mattress.

Steps to Assess:

1. Determine Your Sleep Position: Side, back, stomach, or a combination ([26:03]-[26:15]).
2. Consider Your Body Weight and Height: Heavier individuals may need firmer support, while lighter individuals might prefer softer surfaces ([26:15]-[26:19]).
3. Test Thoroughly: Spend at least 10 minutes lying on each mattress in different positions to evaluate comfort and support ([25:22]-[25:34]).

Kyra’s Advice:

"Know how you sleep. Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, or a mix of any or all of those?" – Kyra Blackwell ([26:03])

---

Common Questions Answered

1. Do You Have to Flip Your Mattress?

• Answer: Rarely. Most modern mattresses are designed to be single-sided. Instead, rotate the mattress 180 degrees every six months ([33:24]-[33:32]).

2. Do You Really Need a Mattress Cover or Protector?

• Answer: Yes. It protects against stains and allergens, reducing the need for frequent deep cleaning ([33:40]-[34:05]).

3. Can a Mattress Actually Cool You?

• Answer: Limited. While some mattresses incorporate cooling technologies like copper-infused memory foam, they generally don’t provide active cooling. For significant cooling, specialized AC bed systems are required ([34:05]-[34:16]).

---

Final Takeaways: Practical Steps for Better Sleep

Christine’s Insight:

"I am not in the market to buy a new mattress right now, and I like my mattress, but I think it's time for me to get a topper." ([35:45]-[36:01])

Rosie’s Advice:

• Don’t pay full price; utilize sales and negotiate prices.
• Assess your sleep type to choose the right mattress material.
• Remember the environmental impact of mattress returns when opting for online purchases ([35:28]-[36:38]).

Overall Summary: The episode emphasizes that while a high-quality mattress is a significant investment in one’s health and sleep quality, it doesn’t necessarily require spending exorbitant amounts. Practical solutions like using toppers and taking advantage of sales can enhance sleep without breaking the bank. Understanding personal sleep habits and body requirements is paramount in selecting the right mattress type, whether opting for traditional in-store purchases or the convenience of online shopping.

---

Notable Quotes:

1. Kyra on Spreadsheets and Logistics:

   "There’s nothing more nightmarish than 12 queen size mattresses into an office." ([04:10])

2. On the Hastens Mattress:

   "It’s the best mattress that I’ve ever slept on. But I am by no means telling you to go out and spend a year's salary and some change on a mattress." ([08:10])

3. Never Paying Full Price:

   "You should never pay full price for anything." ([20:39])

4. Assessing Sleep Needs:

   "Know how you sleep. Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, or a mix of any or all of those?" ([26:03])

5. Final Advice:

   "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." ([17:29])

---

Conclusion: "Love Your Mattress" serves as an essential guide for listeners contemplating a mattress upgrade. With expert insights from Kyra Blackwell, the episode demystifies the mattress selection process, offering practical advice and highlighting key considerations to ensure a good night's sleep. Whether you’re enduring sleepless nights or simply looking to enhance your sleep quality, this episode provides valuable information to make informed decisions about one of the most significant purchases in your home.

Transcript

[Anna Martin]

I'm Anna Martin, the host of the Modern Love podcast. In every episode, we peek into an.

[Rosie Guerin]

Intimate corner of someone's life and learn about what love means to them.

[Anna Martin]

You know, I can tell you, 35.

[Rosie Guerin]

Years with another person, I've never spent that much time with anyone else either.

[Anna Martin]

So we both kind of said, I.

[Rosie Guerin]

Love you pretty fast. My advice is that it's okay if it's hard.

[Anna Martin]

You can listen to Modern Love wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there. Quick reminder. We're working on an episode all about pesky laundry stains and how to actually get them out. And we want to hear from you about what stain is plaguing you. Record a voice memo on your phone and tell us about the most irritating stain you've battled. How did you get it out? What was the culprit? What did it stain? Try and keep these to two minutes or less if you can. And don't forget to tell us your first name and where you're calling from. Once you've recorded, you can email your voice Memo to the wirecuttershowirecutter.com and you might be featured on the show. With advice from our laundry expert, we'll come to the rescue. Thanks. It's not the bed that I remember as a child, like a trampoline, where you're just like, woo, yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Oh, my gosh. I never thought about that. You used to get height.

[Anna Martin]

I've seen my kids try to jump on my bed and they are not getting any height. No, it's really pretty.

[Rosie Guerin]

Not impressive.

[Anna Martin]

Pretty dismal. I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'm Rosie Guerin and you're listening to the Wirecutter Show.

[Anna Martin]

This episode is called Love youe Mattress. Rosie, you may not be aware of this, but.

[Rosie Guerin]

Why wouldn't I be aware of this? I know exactly what you're gonna say.

[Anna Martin]

All right, so you're aware that next week is President's Day. Obviously it's next Monday.

[Rosie Guerin]

I've been counting down for months, which.

[Anna Martin]

Our past president's birthdays. But it also happens to coincide with Wirecutter's annual sleep week, where we cover things you sleep on, but just also how to get better sleep, which I think we can all agree is a very, very important thing. But it also happens to be a time of year that a lot of bedding companies have sales and deals. If you are thinking about upgrading something on your bed, it is a good time to kind of be looking out for things you might want. And if you want to Get a good deal.

[Rosie Guerin]

The twins are doing a unit on hibernation at school right now. So I think this is the time of year where we're hunkered down. We're in our beds. It's cold. We're not yet thinking about spring.

[Anna Martin]

Do you like your bed? Do you feel like you're comfortable sleeping?

[Rosie Guerin]

I love my bed, love my mattress. Spring for something that I hoped would last. And we've had it several years.

[Anna Martin]

Well, I thought this would be a great opportunity to talk with Kyra co host, Kyra Black.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Wow, she sounds amazing.

[Rosie Guerin]

She's absolutely brilliant. She's incredible. She's a mattress expert.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I love that we're getting all this in writing.

[Rosie Guerin]

I know I should be careful here.

[Anna Martin]

Well, Kyra, you've been testing mattresses for a couple of years for Wirecutter.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Right.

[Anna Martin]

So we figured this would be a good opportunity to chat with you, not only about if you're in the market for a new mattress. We're going to talk about that a little later in the episode. But what people can do for their mattress right now if they don't feel like buying a new bed. How to make your mattress more comfortable. I mean, mattresses are incredibly important, but also incredibly personal.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yep.

[Anna Martin]

There's just like no best mattress for everyone.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. I mean, my goal is not to find the best mattress of all time because that just doesn't exist point blank. My goal is to try a bunch and also to get a lot of other people with different body sizes and preferences to test them too. And then I just collect all of that feedback and sort of synthesize it so that you can find the for you.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, we spend, what, like a third of our lives in bed? So you really want to get a mattress that works for you.

[Rosie Guerin]

This is really a good opportunity, too, to put you in the hot seat and ask you all these questions. Like, I feel like it's the question that most people ask you, but how do you do it? How have you tested mattresses?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, I've been testing mattresses for about two and a half years now. And it requires a lot of spreadsheets, as I'm sure every wire cutter tester will tell you. And also it requires a lot of logistics. There's nothing more nightmarish than 12 queen size mattresses into an office. And then from there I narrow that down and then I try to get one queen size mattress into my apartment where I test it at home.

[Anna Martin]

And not just like any apartment, but a New York City apartment. So that has its own set of challenges, like, are you in a walk up?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Well, I used to be. I actually moved in part because of this job. I used to live on the fourth floor, no elevator. And I would be getting new mattresses, like, every month or so, which was just. It was a bad situation.

[Rosie Guerin]

So I don't even think I know this. You will test a large number in the testing space in Long Island City, and then that's where kind of the spreadsheeting begins.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, I probably will go through dozens, dozens of options through my spreadsheets, and then I'll reach out to companies, and I have a certain criteria that each mattress needs to meet before I can even start to think about bringing them into the office. So I try to narrow it down to about 12 or less. And then I will call them into the office. I set them up, we cover the mattresses so people don't actually know what brands they are. And then I, like, make a survey, and then people will come in and test the mattresses and fill out the surveys, and it's all ranked, basically.

[Anna Martin]

It's pretty. It's fun.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. And then when we finally get our finalists narrowed down, which is usually somewhere between two and three mattresses, I will actually have those mattresses sent to my home. When I test them at home, I sleep on them for a minimum of seven nights. And what I'm really looking for there is defects or things that you just can't tell when you are only 10 minutes at a time like you would at a mattress store. So, for example, I tested a really cheap mattress that cost about $200 at the time. It's a bed in a box, and I had it sent to my apartment. I dragged it up four flights of stairs, and then I opened it up, and the mattress did not inflate all the way. It was awful. So basically, the mattress was, like, arched in the middle upwards, and I had to sleep on that for seven days straight, which is terrible. But it's good testing notes, because then I know what's the process for getting a defective mattress and how easy is it to return it, get your money back. So all of that is valuable.

[Rosie Guerin]

How many mattresses have you tested at this point?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Well, I've lost count, but it has to be nearly 100 at this point.

[Rosie Guerin]

What's the wildest, weirdest testing story you have?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I haven't actually owned my own mattress the entire time I've been testing at Wirecutter.

[Rosie Guerin]

That's what.

[Anna Martin]

Wait, so it's just like a rotation of mattresses coming through your apartment?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. I don't own my own mattress. This is. So I'm currently testing a mattress. I've been testing it for six months, and this is the longest I've had the same mattress since I started writing for Sleep on Wirecutter.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, but you gotta back up a minute before we feel too bad for you.

[Rosie Guerin]

Tell us about the mattress you're testing right now. Yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So I think right now the wildest thing that I've ever tested for Wirecutter is this current mattress, and it costs about $75,000. But that's for everything. The mat, the box spring, and the connecting headboard. So it's. It's the entire bed.

[Anna Martin]

Uh. Oh, my gosh. Wait, what's the brand?

[Kyra Blackwell]

It's a Hastens and it's a Hasen's mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Hastens is how you say it. Hastens.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So a Hastens mattress. The star ingredient is horsehair, but the entire mattress is made of natural materials. So it's got cotton, it's got flax, it's got wool, but the horse hair is the star of the show. It's all handmade.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'm currently googling what can I buy for $70,000?

[Anna Martin]

It's definitely a down payment on a house in certain parts of the country.

[Kyra Blackwell]

It is. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

But this is kind of like the bed of celebrities, right?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Martha Stewart loves her Hastens mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Drake famously also has it. It's an investment for sure. But they do claim that the mattress is supposed to last you an entire life. And even more.

[Anna Martin]

Is it worth $70,000? Do you feel like, what is that?

[Rosie Guerin]

75,005.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Get it right, Christine.

[Rosie Guerin]

That extra five will put you over the edge.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. This is the area. I don't think I actually have the authority to tell you if it's worth it. I mean, what I will say is that it's the best mattress that I've ever slept on. But I am by no means telling you to go out and spend a year's salary and some change on a mattress. I mean, if you have the money, go for it.

[Anna Martin]

But I mean, we're not going to hold you back. But I mean, at Wirecutter, we do this sometimes, right? We, we test very high end items and very low end items just to kind of have a comparison point when we're testing other things. And like 95% of the time, we're going to go with something in the middle. Very rarely are we going to recommend something so high end.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

But it's really helpful for the just be able to have those reference points. You know, it gives us a chance to, like, say, you know, try a $75,000 mattress. We do it for the journalism.

[Kyra Blackwell]

It's for science.

[Rosie Guerin]

I think the biggest takeaway is that I have to keep playing Miss Scratchers. Yeah, I really want a $75,000 mattress.

[Kyra Blackwell]

If you have 70k to burn, go ahead, do it. I don't think you'll regret that decision.

[Anna Martin]

Okay. Well, thankfully, the overall takeaway of this episode is not that you need to go out and spend $75,000 on a mattress. Just stepping back a minute. You know, a bad mattress or an uncomfortable bed can really screw up your sleep. You can just wake up not feeling great. It's a fundamentally kind of part of sleep hygiene.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's important. We spend a ton of our lives sleeping.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

A third, let's dig into this a little bit. After the break. We're going to talk about how to make a bed more comfortable that you already have. So listeners who are not wanting to buy a new mattress, we've got lots of tips for you. And then we're going to talk a little bit about your real insider tips at this point about how to shop for a mattress.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Love it.

[Anna Martin]

All right.

[Noah Chestnut]

Hey, it's Noah Chestnut from the Athletic. If you're into games and sports, pay attention. I'm going to give you four sports terms. You tell me the common thread. Ready? Axel Loop. Lutz Sow, Cow. That's Axel Luke, Lutz Salchow. This one's like medium hard. The answer is figure skating jumps. Now, what if I gave you 16 different terms and you figure out how they come together into four different groups? If you're up for the challenge, you'll want to check out Sports Edition. It's a new daily game for sports fans. There'll be some that are going to stump you, some that make you laugh in, some that remind you when you were a kid watching sports for the first time? Connections Sports Edition. To play today's puzzle, go to theathletic.com connections.

[Anna Martin]

Welcome back. Today, it's Kyra Blackwell, our co host extraordinaire, but also one of Wirecutter's resident mattress testers and experts around sleep. Kyra, we're going to put you in the hot seat today and we are talking all about how to get a better night's sleep on your bed and.

[Rosie Guerin]

If for whatever reason you can't, how to buy a new one.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, so, Kyra, I personally have a huge amount of trouble with sleep. I wake up all the time really light sleeper. I am getting Older. So that means, like, many, many things change. And, like, you know, I have one glass of wine, I can't get any sleep. My kids wake me up, like, 13 times a night. I want to know, Kyra, for someone who's maybe not getting optimal sleep right now, how can you kind of parse out whether your mattress is actually the problem?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Totally. I think the biggest signs would be if you're waking up and your back is sore or your joints are achy or you're waking up in the middle of the night a bunch of times, and it's not because your kids are coming to get you. It's just you're waking up, like, in a hot sweat, for example. That could be the mattress and not just you.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Rosie Guerin]

If you're waking up achy or sore, though, Kyra, does that always mean it's time to throw out your mattress? Because I have had some soreness, specifically in my shoulders, my kind of C spine area. So I'm wondering if it could be my mattress.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, not always. It's not always your mattress. And I know that you're a stomach sleeper, so you're being achy on your neck. Doesn't really surprise me. But that could also tell me that it might just be your pillow, which is the first thing you probably should look at is your pillows.

[Anna Martin]

Why is that?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Because a pillow can really make or break your mattress experience if you're not being propped up in the right areas. Depending on how you sleep, it could cause things like achy joints, a sore neck, a sore shoulder, sore hips.

[Anna Martin]

All right, so that's super helpful. If you are having trouble on your mattress, you might want to just go out and get a different set of pillows, which is a much lower cost than buying a mattress.

[Rosie Guerin]

So much cheaper, lower barrier to entry. We also have guides on Wirecutter about pillows, and I think we'll probably do a pillow EP at some point on the show. But for now, we're gonna focus on whether or not the mattress is the issue.

[Anna Martin]

Right. So, Kyra, how do you know if you can salvage your mattress? If you're feeling uncomfortable and you've ruled out the pillow situation, how do you know if you can bring the mattress back to a place that you would feel comfortable on it?

[Kyra Blackwell]

If you feel like your mattress is too firm, like you're waking up, and maybe your shoulders, your hips are really achy, that might just mean that your mattress isn't plush enough to let those heavier parts of your body really sink in and let your. So for that, I would just Get a topper. There are all different kinds, too. You can get a memory foam down, down alternative, or latex. And this really will depend on how you like to sleep and what your preference is for the feel. But any of these could make your mattress cushier.

[Rosie Guerin]

Can you just run through quickly what you might expect each of these types of toppers to feel like?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, totally. So memory foam kind of sucks you in. If you've ever sat on a Tempur Pedic mattress, that is a classic memory foam feel. And then down is more. It's lighter, it's flu. If you've ever had, like, a down comforter or even down pillows, you kind of know what that feels like. It's fluffy and it's airy, but it's definitely not as supportive. And then down alternative feels pretty much exactly like down. It just doesn't have natural materials in it. And then latex is another foam alternative. It feels like memory foam, but it doesn't necessarily suck you in. It's more bouncier and it's lighter and also kind of airier.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, great. What about if a mattress is too soft?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that one's harder. It's really hard to go from soft to firm. So in that case, you probably just need to get a new mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, okay. All right. What about dense or indents? Because that sometimes happens in mattresses.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that one is another unfixable issue. If it gets to that point, you can't really. You, like, you can't unfold the paper or whatever. I don't know what they're saying is, but, like, you just can't undo it. So you're also going to have to get a new mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Kyra Blackwell]

But if you order from some places, check the warranty first before you go out and buy a new one, because some mattress companies do cover that.

[Rosie Guerin]

So in general, though, how long should your mattress last? Because when I knew we were going to do this episode, I was thinking about when I got my mattress. I don't think there's any issue. Still feels very solid and intact. But I'm like, I was thinking about how long I've had it. It's been a while.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I would say it depends on what kind of mattress you're getting. Roughly, I would expect most mattresses to last between seven and 10 years, though.

[Anna Martin]

I used to edit mattress coverage a while ago, and I remember having conversations with people at that time where a lot of these sort of newer mattress companies haven't even been around for 10 years. So it's a little Hard to say with some of these mattresses. Like, we don't actually have evidence of how long they last, but 10 years is probably a pretty safe bet.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, especially if you're getting something like foam. I know, like many mattress companies who specialize in foam, mattresses are so new and there's so much competition, but all foam is pretty much made the same at this point, and it has a long record of being very durable.

[Rosie Guerin]

So when it kind of runs its course, what's going to happen? Is the foam itself going to degrade or will it have indented just to a point that's not recoverable?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, you'll definitely feel it. It'll start sloping and your body will just leave its imprint in the mattress. So, for example, if you have a mattress that comes with a pillow top, like my favorite, the Stearns and Foster, you're just going to want to be extra vigilant because those tend to sag faster than a classic memory foam.

[Anna Martin]

And a pillow top, what is that? That's a super plush top.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, a pillow top has that billowy pillow look to it that makes it so soft and cushy. So the mattresses are built really well. But if you're just not rotating it like you should be, or you're not sleeping on it evenly, then it will start to form a depression sooner.

[Anna Martin]

A hack that a physical therapist once told me about that issue with the top getting soft is that she tends to buy firmer mattresses and just buys toppers every few years. So that is also a strategy, like, if you're really a bed that you can use for years and years and years, but it does require a little bit more mental effort to find a topper you like.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that's true.

[Anna Martin]

So, Kyra, even if you've had a mattress for a long time, like, let's say it's over 10 years, I've heard of people having a mattress for 20 or 25 years. If you're still sleeping comfortably on that mattress, you can just keep it. Right. There's not a reason you should be getting a new mattress.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Totally. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Rosie Guerin]

So, Sleep Hygiene 101 when it comes to mattresses, if you're waking up achy, you're waking up sore, you're waking up with pain. Could be your mat pillow. If you're finding your mattress is too hard, consider a mattress topper. If it's too soft, it's harder to problem solve. In that case, you might want to explore getting a new mattress. And that's what we're going to talk about more after the break.

[Anna Martin]

That's right. We're also going to talk about what you kind of need to spend to get a decent mattress. And we're going to walk through the different types because there's a lot of different options out there. We'll be right back. Welcome back, Kyra. This is my favorite part of this episode because we get to get real nerdy and wire cuttery in this part. We're gonna really dig into the details of how to actually shop for a mattress, what people should pay attention to, what they can kind of ignore, and what you have to spend to get something good.

[Rosie Guerin]

This is a big purchase.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Mattresses are expensive. Even inexpensive mattresses are expensive.

[Anna Martin]

And they're also big. They're big pieces in your home.

[Rosie Guerin]

Absolutely. I was recently helping my parents move and they had to buy new beds. And it seemed like there were some really expensive options, but also some quote unquote, cheap ones on Amazon. What kind of do you actually have to spend to get a good, durable mattress that'll last, I don't know, say, a decade?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I would say, just generally, if you are willing to spend around fifteen hundred dollars for a mattress, you're going to.

[Anna Martin]

Find something you'll like for like a queen size.

[Kyra Blackwell]

For a queen size.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And I always test queens because that's what most people in the country buy.

[Anna Martin]

So if you buy something, we have a guide on the site for mattresses that are about $500 or less for a queen. What's the sort of value difference between the $500 mattress and the $1,500 mattress?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I mean, I told my partner to get one of our cheap mattress picks. It's the Zinus Cooling swirl. It cost 350 at the time, and he's had it for nearly four years. And I think it's just as good as the day that he got it. So I think that those mattress are fine, they're durable and they can be really comfortable. But the cheap mattresses just tend to have a little less nuance. They're not balanced. Sometimes they have a few more cons than pros, but I still think it's a great purchase if that's what you can afford.

[Rosie Guerin]

So a cheaper mattress might not have all the bells and whistles, but it'll do what you need it to do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, it's like a good tuna melt. You love a good tuna melt. And they don't cost that much, but at the end of the day, it's not Gonna be like, I don't know, an amazing Italian sub with like a million ingredients on it and 10 different.

[Rosie Guerin]

Sauces and balanced properly.

[Anna Martin]

That's right.

[Rosie Guerin]

So we're timing this episode obviously around President's Day week. There are a lot of sales on things like, Matt, should you ever pay full price for a mattress?

[Kyra Blackwell]

You should never pay full price for anything.

[Anna Martin]

That's the answer that I want to know.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Always haggle, always get a deal. But I would say definitely, definitely, definitely shop around during President's Day weekend because you will be getting good deals.

[Anna Martin]

There are other times of year when sales happen, though, right?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. Memorial Day is a good one. And Black Friday now is great for mattresses, especially if you're going, like, the online route.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, Kyra, so I want to talk next about where people should think about shopping for a mattress right now. There are so many choices. There's been this proliferation over the last 10 to 15 years of direct to consumer brands. And these are kind of the brands you see advertised on Instagram or, you know, you get little flyers in the mail. And I think one of the most popular for a while was Casper, but now there's a ton more. So you can buy a bed in a box, basically, they ship it to your home and you unpack it. And then you can, of course, go the old school route and go to something like a mattress firm and try stuff out. You know, after testing so many mattresses, what do you think are the pros and cons of each of those approaches?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I would say the pros of going in store is that you can actually touch and lay down and feel the mattress, which is huge. I still think even if you want to buy online, you should go into a mattress store and try to find the model that you're interested in and try it out. Because no matter how many videos you watch or how many descriptions you read, it's really not going to tell you if you're going to like the mattress. But the con of that is that you actually have to take the time to go do that and you have to endure the awkward sal stand over you and try to push you to buy something immediately.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Hey, is anybody helping you?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Right.

[Anna Martin]

Can you haggle inside of a in store place?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yes. You can always haggle.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, I cannot haggle.

[Rosie Guerin]

One can maybe.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You can always, always, always haggle. Play them against each other. They're always in competition. Somebody is trying to get you to buy that mattress so you can use that to your advantage. For the pros of direct to consumer, it's great because it's easy and you know, they always have really good return policies or free trial periods. But the con is that again, like you just can't tell what you're actually buying until you get it. And then if you don't like it, it ends up in a landfill somewhere because you're returning the mattress and they're not going to sell it to somebody else.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ah.

[Anna Martin]

So is that like the dirty secret of this sort of mattress industry where you can return for 100 days or whatever, but that's what happens to those mattresses at the end of the day?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Honestly, even if you go in store, they'll give you a basic return policy and a warranty. Most mattresses I' 120 night sleep trial, which means if you don't like it after 120 nights, you can still send it back if you went and bought it from the store. And they will usually give you at least a 10 year warranty. And this is both for direct to consumer and in store shopping. You can send it back and they'll just throw it away and you buy a new one. And it's terrible for the environment.

[Rosie Guerin]

If you do go into a store, what are you looking for? Because I usually throw myself back onto the mattress and wait for something magical to happen, but I don't actually know what I'm supposed to.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, no, you're not gonna levitate as soon as you find the mattress that you like? Unfortunately, yeah, no, it's a very boring process. But I would just recommend that people don't just. We call them a butt sit test when we're doing in office testing where people just kind of sit on the edge and bounce around and then they get up and walk to the next one. Please lay down on the mattress the way that you would lay down on it if you're trying to sleep at home, even if it's a little uncomfortable. Cause you've got like a salesman breathing down your neck. That's the only way that you're gonna tell how your body sits on the mattress.

[Anna Martin]

So what about other things that you do when you're testing that you recommend people do when they are trying out a mattress?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I always look at the motion isolation, which is, you know, like when you're sharing a bed with a partner and they get up and you can feel it on your side, it like jolts you around. So I will usually have somebody else sit on the bed or get up off and on the bed while I'm on it to test that. I also Test the edge support, which is when you sit on the edge of the mattress. But this is really just to tell if, you know if you're sitting on the edge of the bed to put on your socks or if your partner is pushing you to the edge of the bed in the middle of the night. You're not gonna fall off the bed.

[Anna Martin]

Right. Like a bad edge support just kind of. You'll slide right off.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You'll slide right off. And you can tell I lay down on my back, on my stomach, and on both of my sides. And for me, I'm trying to tell if my spine feels aligned in my side sleeping position, because that's the position that I sleep in. And that just means that you feel like your body is straight instead of. If a mattress is too firm for me, my hip feels like it's up in the air, and my shoulders feel like they're pressed up against the mattress. Or if it's too soft, then I feel like my lower body is just sinking too deep and I'm, like, slanted.

[Anna Martin]

Right. Right.

[Rosie Guerin]

So how long do I have to lie there?

[Kyra Blackwell]

I usually take at least 10 minutes.

[Anna Martin]

On a mattress, so that can be a pretty long process.

[Kyra Blackwell]

When we have 12 mattresses in the office, sometimes it can take people up to two hours to test. And I've had one person who actually fell asleep on one, which is so cute.

[Anna Martin]

That's just napping on the job.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that was his favorite.

[Rosie Guerin]

So now I know the price point I'm looking for. I've decided how I want to buy my mattress in store or online. Now I want to know, how am I meant to decide what type of mattress is going to be right for me? This is the part that is overwhelming.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. I'm genuinely still kind of surprised sometimes in my two and a half years of doing this, just how people aren't really sure how they sleep. So what I always tell people is to assess yourself first.

[Rosie Guerin]

You've been bugging me to assess my sleep since the day I met you.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Forever. This means you need to know how you sleep. Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, or, like, a mix of. Of any or all of those? And then you need to look at how much you weigh, how tall you are, and how your weight sits on your body. So, for example, most of my weight is in my shoulders and my hips. So those are the heaviest points that are going to be kind of dragging into the mattress. So I'm really looking for a mattress that supports the heaviest parts of my body.

[Anna Martin]

Knowing your sleep position Understanding your weight, your height, all of these things. How does that help you get to deciding what type of mattress to get that?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Well, again, you have to go into a store. You have to try all the different types. But, for example, when I go into a store and I'm on a memory foam mattress, which is really sinky, it really pulls you in. I know that I don't actually need that much support from a memory foam mattress because I don't want to sink in too deeply, and I know that I don't really like the feel of memory foam to begin with. So if I lay on a mattress, a memory foam mattress, and I feel like I'm getting sucked in and I can't move, it's really hard to shift positions, or I feel like, like, you know, my hips are too high up or too low, then I know that that's not the mattress for me.

[Anna Martin]

Is the firmness level of a mattress correlated to all of these factors, like the position you sleep in and your weight and all of that? Like, for instance, like, I'm a stomach sleeper, so there's not a lot of pokey, bony parts poking into the mattress. Is, like, a firmer mattress better for somebody who's a stomach sleeper? Is there some easy kind of, like, cheat sheet?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, that's a great question. I would say generally there is. So if you're a stomach sleeper, you do want a firmer mattress because your whole body is kind of pressing up against the mattress except for your shoulders and your face. So you really want a mattress that will support the lower half of your body so you don't feel like you're arching your back when you sleep every night. For side sleepers, you want a softer mattress. For the reasons that I already listed, you do have those pokey, bony parts sticking into the mattress, so you want to make sure that they're properly cushioned. And then for back sleepers, you guys are the best. You're really easy, and you can pretty much leave on any mattress that you like because you're flat, that.

[Rosie Guerin]

Let's talk about the different types then. You've mentioned memory foam. Talk about that.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Memory foam is polyurethane foam, and this is the same material again that they use in car seats, airplane seats, and some pillows. The entire mattress will only be made of foam. There will be nothing else. And they really feel like a slow, sinky feeling. I kind of feel like I'm laying on quicksand when I. When I lay in one.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. They're not my favorite.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. But they really cradle and conform to your body, which people really like.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, I think some people like that. Kind of like you're being hug by your mattress and you're not going to move that much. Right. That's kind of a big plus of them.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Huge plus. It's a very distinct feeling and people really like it. And some mattresses that we recommend that are all foam are the Saatva Loom and Leaf, the Elisa original, and the Nova Form Comfort grand from Costco is also great.

[Rosie Guerin]

So those might be for back sleepers.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Totally.

[Rosie Guerin]

Maybe side sleepers as well.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I actually think that it's more for stomach sleepers than side sleepers.

[Rosie Guerin]

Interesting.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. Because it's pretty firm. Firm. So you're going to feel supported and held up very well on a memory foam mattress.

[Rosie Guerin]

So talk about hybrid, then.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So a hybrid has a mix of foam and springs, you know, those coily bits that make the mattress bouncier. And the hybrid is kind of just the best of both worlds. So maybe you don't want to feel like you're sinking all the way into the mattress and maybe you want it to be a little bit easier to shift positions in the middle of the night, you know, like if you sleep on your stomach and your side. Hybrids are also good because they are the happy medium for people who might be sharing a mattress with somebody and you might be on opposite ends of what you like in a mattress. And this would be a good compromise. They tend to cost a little bit more than an all foam mattress because the springs cost more to construct.

[Anna Martin]

And so these mattresses are kind of like a Frankenstein. Right. It's like the old school inner springs on the bottom and then the layer of foam on the top. Right. You're getting a little bit of bounce, but also a little bit of that foamy sink.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah. A little bit of that contouring.

[Anna Martin]

Right.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Some of the brands that we recommend are the Leesa Sapira Hybrid and the Winkbed, which I think you have.

[Anna Martin]

I do. I have that mattress. I. I like it. I need a topper, honestly. But I do like the mattress. I think it just needs to be a little softer for me.

[Rosie Guerin]

Talk about innerspring a little bit. I think of those as, like, old school.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Totally. Innerspring, honestly, is a dying breed. Most mattresses that I've recommended or even tested are not really classic innersprings. Like, people think of inner springs as their grandma's mattress that was still flippable. And it's definitely not that. What qualifies an innerspring is a bed that really Focuses on the spring system, not the foam. But they will still have foam on them. So, for example, the Stearns and Foster is the mattress that I have loved over the years. Every time I'm in between testing, I will have the Stearns and Foster sent to my house so I can sleep on it.

[Anna Martin]

And these innerspring mattresses, are they bouncier than a hybrid mattress?

[Kyra Blackwell]

They can be, honestly. Sometimes a hybrid and an innerspring is just really interchangeable. I think the Wink bed, the one that you're sleeping on one, they call it an inner spring.

[Anna Martin]

Right.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So it can be bouncier. Sometimes they can mute the bounciness with more foam. But it's really, it is going to be springier than your all foam mattress.

[Anna Martin]

And I will say I don't feel like it's super springy. Like it's not the bed that I remember as a child, like a trampoline, where you're just like, oh my gosh.

[Rosie Guerin]

I never thought about that. You used to get height.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, you used to get a lot of height. And I've seen my kids try to jump on my bed and they are not impressive. No, it's really pretty, pretty, pretty dismal.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, I know. Because most inner springs now have the plush top.

[Anna Martin]

Right?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Which means that it's still got a lot of squishy foam on the top, but it's still got that really bouncy, supportive system at the bottom.

[Anna Martin]

So when you were talking about the hybrid mattress, you said that that can be a great compromise for sleep partners who have different sleep preferences. Maybe they sleep in different positions.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Is that the only compromise? Like, I guess what I'm asking is how do you advise people who really have different sleep positions in a couple to buy a mattress? Mattress.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but go to the mattress store together always, and you're probably gonna end up with a hybrid. I would say also, if one of you tends to run hot and the other tends to run cold, maybe do the Scandinavian sleep method, which is when you guys both have your own comforters.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So you don't have to fight over the blanket.

[Anna Martin]

Right. There are some brands that do split kings, meaning that you could order a bed that has different density on each side. So one side could be softer and the other side could be harder. Like, have you test.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I haven't. Because most people don't end up getting that. They are out there. And if you're interested, you don't look into it. But in my experience, they're really expensive. And you could totally just get two twins and put them on the same bed frame and it's the same thing.

[Anna Martin]

Or like just put them in different rooms, which is what I sometimes would like to do.

[Rosie Guerin]

All right, Kyra, before we let you go and get back to your, your co host duties, we want to do just a rapid fire rundown of some common questions that I and we have about mattresses.

[Anna Martin]

Do you have to flip your mattress?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Rarely. That's very old school. Most mattresses can't even be flipped these days. You just have to rotate them once every six months.

[Anna Martin]

And by rotate you mean like turn the head to the foot and the foot. Okay. All right, great. Do you really need a mattress cover or a mattress protector?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yes, please. So then you don't have to take everything off and maybe who is vacuuming a mattress?

[Anna Martin]

Well, you could read our mattress cleaning guide and you could see that that is recommended.

[Kyra Blackwell]

It is. And if you don't have a mattress cover, you should be doing it. What is it like once every two months?

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, it's something ridiculous. Yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Awful. So if you do have a mattress protector, then you don't have to do any of that. You can just throw it in the washing machine.

[Anna Martin]

A lot of times you see cooling in the marketing for mattresses. Can a mattress actually cool you?

[Kyra Blackwell]

You have to get one of those AC bed systems for that to work.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Kyra Blackwell]

But if they say that it has cooling properties like a memory foam mattress that has copper infused in it. Yeah. Like the copper actually is good at conducting heat away from your body, but it's not going to make you feel cool in the mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Right. And if you have an issue with heat, like memory foam probably isn't your jam anyways.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Totally.

[Rosie Guerin]

To rec. I think it really matters to assess what kind of sleeper you are. Side sleeper, stomach sleeper, back sleeper. It's really going to help lead you down a path to find the right material, whether it's memory foam, hybrid inner spring that might work for you. And then the real thing that you really need to try and do begrudgingly sometimes is go to a store and sit on the mattresses, lie on them, lie like you do, you know, when you're falling asleep to really get a sense of whether it's gonna work for you and or a partner.

[Anna Martin]

Right. Because it's a little bit hard to know if you just order something and it is delivered to your door. Although you can do that if it's got a good warranty and a good return policy.

[Rosie Guerin]

But know that if you don't like it. It's fine. But you are sending the return to a landfill.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Don't be hoodwinked into thinking that it's going to some good use or something after that.

[Rosie Guerin]

All right, Christine, what are you taking away from this? Well, now that Kyra's out of the.

[Anna Martin]

Room, we can speak freely.

[Rosie Guerin]

Yeah, we can finally speak freely.

[Anna Martin]

I am not in the market to buy a new mattress right now, and I like my mattress, but I think it's time for me to get a topper. That's already something I was thinking about. So I'm gonna kind of poke around and figure out what kind of topper I want to make my mattress a little softer.

[Rosie Guerin]

I am taking away from this that you probably don't need to pay full price for a mattress. Like, if you are a person who's in the market now or sometime soon, don't pay full price. Shop around on President's Day. Shop around. Memorial Day. Shop around Black Friday. Shop around. Haggle.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. We're always flagging the best deals on our deals page too. So if you're looking for a mattress or topper, pillows, bedding, we've got a lot of stuff there right now, I think.

[Rosie Guerin]

Also assess what kind of sleeper you are having that knowledge, being armed with that, that has actually helped me figure out a pillow that works for me and it kind of helped me figure out my mattress.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, I think that's great.

[Rosie Guerin]

And then finally I think it's like find scrape together $75,000 and get a Hastens. That's it for us this week. We are gonna be back with a brand new episode next week and Kyra will be back in the hosting chair. If you want to find out more about Wirecutters mattress coverage, if you want to check out the products, the brands, anything we recommended Today, go to nytimes.com wirecutter or as ever, you can find a link in the show notes. Bye, Christine.

[Anna Martin]

Bye.

[Rosie Guerin]

The Wirecutter show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Mazziel and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba Itup and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's deputy publisher and interim general manager is Cliff Levy. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor in chief.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Anna Martin]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Rosie Guerin]

And I'm Rosie Guerin. Thank you for listening.

[Anna Martin]

That's like all the fibers I like to wear except the horse hair. Like I. I don't have any horse clothing.