The Art of Stain Removal Part 2

Summary

The Wirecutter Show: The Art of Stain Removal Part 2 – Detailed Summary

Release Date: March 26, 2025

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Introduction

In the second installment of "The Art of Stain Removal" series, The Wirecutter Show delves deeper into tackling some of the most stubborn and perplexing stains encountered in everyday life. Hosts Christine Cyr Clisset and Kyra Blackwell, alongside producer Rosie Guerin, join forces with Andrea Barnes, Wirecutter’s esteemed laundry expert, to provide actionable solutions to listeners' tough laundry woes.

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Recap of Part One

The episode begins by briefly revisiting the foundational steps for stain removal discussed in the first part of the series. Andrea Barnes emphasized five key steps:

1. Identify the Stain: Understanding the nature of the stain is crucial.
2. Blot or Scrape: Remove excess residue gently to prevent further embedding.
3. Choose a Stain Remover: Selecting the appropriate product based on the stain type.
4. Pre-Treat or Soak: Applying detergent or soaking in water and detergent to loosen the stain.
5. Wash and Air Dry: Cleaning the garment thoroughly and allowing it to air dry to prevent setting the stain with heat.

Kyra Blackwell highlights the importance of being prepared to repeat the process multiple times:

“[02:04] Kyra Blackwell: And you have to be prepared to do this more than once. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes multiple cycles for you to really get that stain out.”

She also introduces the "dissolves like" rule to match stains with their appropriate treatments:

• Fat and Oil Stains: Use liquid laundry detergent and warm water.
• Protein Stains: Opt for liquid detergent or zout with cold water.
• Dyes and Pigments: Apply oxygen bleach on cold.

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Listener Questions and Expert Solutions

The bulk of the episode is dedicated to addressing listener-submitted questions, each presenting unique stain challenges. Andrea Barnes provides expert advice tailored to each scenario.

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1. Ink Stains on Cotton (Lucia from Minneapolis)

Listener's Dilemma:
Lucia struggles with stubborn ballpoint pen ink on a 100% cotton comforter. Despite trying isopropyl alcohol, Dawn detergent, a vinegar and baking soda paste, and even professional cleaning, the stain persists.

Andrea's Advice:
Andrea suggests using Amodex, a soap-based stain remover recommended by pen companies. The process involves:

• Wearing gloves for protection.
• Applying Amodex directly to the stain.
• Gently massaging the remover into the fabric.
• Blotting the ink away gradually.

She cautions that this method is time-consuming and requires patience:

“[05:52] Christine Cyrclassette: Item that you're trying to clean. How much is your time worth?”
“[05:57] Andrea Barnes: Yeah, I mean, I would do it and it can be done...”

If unsuccessful, Andrea suggests considering a comforter cover as a last resort.

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2. Cat Urine on Fabrics (Mary from Savannah, Georgia)

Listener's Dilemma:
Mary's elderly cat intermittently urinates on soft furnishings. Despite washing with liquid detergent on cold, the lingering odor sometimes remains.

Andrea's Advice:
Andrea recommends enzymatic cleaners like Nature's Miracle, which break down the proteins in urine. For rugs or upholstery, she suggests using a steam vacuum with an enzymatic cleaner:

“[09:17] Christophe Cyrclassette: [Mary's issue] but if it's really bad, I might try soaking it with some sort of enzymatic or liquid laundry detergent...
[09:27] Kyra Blackwell: Okay, Andrea.”

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3. Fish Oil Smell on Chambray Jumpsuit (Chen Yi from Los Angeles)

Listener's Dilemma:
Chen Yi spilled tinned fish oil on her jumpsuit. While the oil was removed, the fishy odor remains despite attempts with dish soap, Oxiclean, and laundry detergent.

Andrea's Advice:
Andrea outlines two potential solutions:

1. Soaking: Immerse the garment in water with a robust laundry detergent for 1-2 hours.
2. Odor Rinse: Use acid-based odor removers like Sonnet or Downy Rinse and Refresh, added to the fabric softener dispenser to eliminate lingering smells.

She underscores the dual benefit of these products in cleaning both the garment and the washing machine:

“[10:06] Christine Cyrclassette: Ooh, stinky, stinky, stinky, stinky.
[11:37] Rosie Guerin: So a reminder to not use fabric softener.”

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4. Dried Paint Stains on Clothing (Rayanne from Virginia & Dena from Manhattan)

Listener's Dilemma:
Rayanne, a painter, faces dried acrylic paint on her clothing despite multiple attempts with various cleaners. Dena accidentally got oil-based subway paint on her dress during a parade.

Andrea's Advice:
For acrylic paint:

• Use rubbing alcohol and Dawn Power Wash.
• Gently dab to loosen the paint before washing.

For oil-based paint:

• Employ mineral spirits like Clean Strip, ensuring proper ventilation and safety measures.
• Andrea advises caution due to the hazardous nature of these solvents:

“[16:13] Rosie Guerin: What is a minute?
[16:13] Andrea Barnes: What’s that? It’s called clean strip...”

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5. Blood Stains on Hoodie (Leah's Question)

Listener's Dilemma:
Leah's child frequently has bloody noses, leaving grayish marks on a hoodie despite using detergent and oxygen bleach.

Andrea's Advice:
Andrea suggests pre-treating the remaining marks with liquid laundry detergent before another cold wash. She speculates that prolonged exposure to oxygen bleach might have caused dye fading:

“[19:11] Christine Cyrclassette: ...
[19:35] Rosie Guerin: So again, it's like it's just putting a little bit of liquid laundry detergent on these stains, letting it sit for a few minutes and then washing on cold.”

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6. Black Tea Stains on Fleece Vest (Olivia from Chicago)

Listener's Dilemma:
Cheryl from Chicago spilled hot black tea on a high-pile off-white fleece vest. Despite repeated treatments with Oxiclean, vinegar, and baking soda, the stain remains partially visible.

Andrea's Advice:
For synthetic polyester fleece:

• Apply an oxygen bleach paste or a hydrogen peroxide-based stain remover like Tide Ultra Oxy or Clorox 2 directly to the stain.
• Monitor the stain's reaction to determine effectiveness before proceeding to wash.

For natural fibers like wool, Andrea recommends consulting a dry cleaner to avoid damaging the fabric.

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7. Deodorant and Antiperspirant Stains (Dena from Portland & Matt from Los Angeles)

Listener's Dilemma:
Dena deals with white deodorant residue from her sons’ Axe body spray, damaging dark T-shirts. Matt faces persistent pit stains despite numerous attempts with various cleaners.

Andrea's Advice:
For white deodorant stains:

• Create a paste using baking soda and water or powder detergent and water.
• Apply to the stain, let sit for 20-30 minutes, then scrape and rinse before washing.

For pit stains:

• Use a liquid laundry detergent on warm water settings.
• For white shirts, opt for detergents containing oxygen bleach like Tide Ultra Oxy.

Additionally, Rosie suggests using a citric acid-based laundry odor rinse to combat pervasive odors:

“[25:44] Rosie Guerin: ... citric acid based laundry odor rinse.”

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8. Red Clay on White Baseball Pants (Olivia from Georgia)

Listener's Dilemma:
Olivia seeks a method to keep white baseball pants clean despite frequent red clay exposure during games.

Andrea's Advice:
Andrea recommends:

• Soaking the pants in water with a powder detergent, which is effective against clay and mud stains.
• If necessary, switch to a detergent with oxygen bleach for more stubborn stains:

“[27:24] Christine Cyrclassette: So it doesn't need to have oxy in it.
[27:26] Andrea Barnes: It doesn't need to...”

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9. Invisible Stains

Discussion:
Andrea introduces the concept of "invisible stains" that only become apparent after washing, such as those caused by:

• Champagne: Sugar can caramelize under heat.
• Bubble Residue: Common in clothes washed with warm water after children blow bubbles.
• Sunscreen: Leaves pink stains post-wash.

Andrea's Tips:

• Preventive Measures: Wash garments in cold water and dry on low heat to minimize setting stains.
• Treatment: Soak in laundry detergent or oxygen bleach.

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Final Tips and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, the hosts and Andrea share key insights and personal takeaways:

• Patience is Crucial: Stain removal often requires multiple treatments.

  “[31:15] Rosie Guerin: ... it might take multiple cycles to get out any given stain.”

• Read Product Instructions: Ensure proper usage of products like oxygen bleach to avoid damaging fabrics.

  “[31:29] Kyra Blackwell: ... read and follow the instructions.”

• Featured Products:

  • Tide Ultra Oxy: Andrea cites this as her "holy grail" laundry product.
  • Clorox 2: Recommended for its hydrogen peroxide content, effective against various stains.

• Invisible Stains Awareness: Being mindful of activities that can lead to unseen stains helps in proactive stain management.

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Notable Quotes

• Andrea Barnes on Ink Removal:

  “[05:57] Andrea Barnes: ... it's gonna take you a long time. Yeah, it's gonna take you a long.”

• On the Complexity of Oil-Based Paint Removal:

  “[16:46] Christine Cyrclassette: It's just really stinky.”

• On Invisible Stains and Fermentation Chemistry:

  “[28:15] Kyra Blackwell: That happens to me all the time.”

• Andrea's Holy Grail Laundry Product:

  “[30:01] Andrea Barnes: I mean, I'm going to come out. I'm sure you're all going to be stunned to hear that it's tied ultra oxygen.”

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Conclusion

The Wirecutter Show delivers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of stain removal techniques, empowering listeners with expert advice to tackle even the most persistent stains. Andrea Barnes’ insights, combined with the hosts' thoughtful discussion, make this episode an invaluable resource for maintaining spotless and fresh laundry.

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For More Information

To delve deeper into Wirecutter's coverage or to explore the recommended products discussed in this episode, visit Wirecutter's website or refer to the show notes linked in the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Rosie Guerin]

I'd like to volunteer and help you problem solve the issue of your sons wearing Axe deodorant body spray. You might think about a citric acid based laundry odor rinse. Unsolicited advice bringing it around.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'm Rosie Garant and you're listening to the Wirecutter show.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This episode is called the Art of Stain removal part two.

[Rosie Guerin]

Hi guys.

[Andrea Barnes]

Hey there.

[Rosie Guerin]

We're back with part two of the stain series, which sounds really gross, but it's actually, I think, hugely informative.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Absolutely.

[Rosie Guerin]

Listener questions for Detective Andrea Barnes of basically how to get rid of the toughest stains on your clothes. So we hung out with her last week. She told the people about battling chapstick, sunscreen, cooking grease and vodka soaked gummy bears. Shout out to Rory from Adelaide Bless.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So last week we talked with Andrea about the five basic things you need to think about when you're preparing to attack a stain. So those are identify the stain. So you need to know what your, what you're fighting basically to be able to get it out. Blot or scrape the stain. So if there's some food or something, some gunk on your clothing, you need to kind of scrape it off, you can do that with the back of a butter knife. The next thing is to pick a stain remover. And that's kind of the trickiest part. And we would recommend going back and listening to the first episode so you can be better prepared for that pre treat or soak. And that means just basically putting some detergent on your clothing or soaking in water and detergent. And then the last step is to wash and air dry. And air drying is really important with stains because you don't want the stain to set with heat or anything in the dryer. And so you, you want to let them air dry first.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And you have to be prepared to do this more than once. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes multiple cycles for you to really get that stain out. Then of course there's also this like dissolves like rule that Andrea told us. And the shorthand is that that should help you remember how to match stains with the right treatment. So that's fat and oil stains like butter or grease. Use a liquid laundry detergent and warm water. For protein stains like dairy, eggs or grass or starches like baby food or chocolate, use liquid detergent or zout and cold water. And then for dyes and pigments like wine, coffee and turmeric, you can use oxygen bleach on cold.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right. So now we're ready to get to more listener questions. Yeah. We'll be right back with Andrea Bar.

[Andrea Barnes]

Foreign.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Welcome back. Andrea Barnes is back again. She's wirecutters laundry expert. She's been here before. Y'all know her by now. She knows a ton about detergent, stain removers and washing machines. And she is our resident stain doctor.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Hi, Andrea. Welcome back.

[Andrea Barnes]

Hi. Thanks for having me again, y'all.

[Rosie Guerin]

I feel like I am growing in confidence.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That's right. You're just gonna approach this next laundry.

[Rosie Guerin]

Day with, I'm feeling pretty good, but no. I genuinely love hearing the voice messages from our listeners, both because it's a joy to hear from people around the world, but also because the questions that they've submitted are all incredibly thoughtful and relatable. So let's get back into it.

[Lucia]

Hello, wirecutter. This is Lucia calling from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Last year, I got a couple lines of ballpoint pen ink on my comforter. The comforter is 100% cotton, and the ink is a refill that is supposed to be archival quality. I did some research on removing the stain and tried isopropyl alcohol. That didn't work. I tried treating it with dawn with laundry detergent, with a paste of vinegar and baking soda and dish soap. I went to war against this stain. It persisted. I called a local dry cleaner and he said, don't try. At that point, I kind of gave up and brought it to the laundromat to wash the whole thing. After everything I did, the stain faded a bit, but it's still there, taunting me every time I see it. This is definitely the worst stain I've ever encountered.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Is it ever advisable to attack a stain with alcohol?

[Andrea Barnes]

Sure. Yeah. Alcohol can be great for some specific stains, and it does work on some inks. Basically what you would do is you would take the stain and put it over a cup and use an eyedropper to put alcohol through it. If you start to see the ink bleed, that means it'll work, but it's really, really exhausting. I would say in the case of this, and this might be a lost cause. I can't say for sure without seeing the stain, but in testing, we used Amodex, which is recommended by pen companies for ink removal. We tested it. We were able to remove both ballpoint ink and Sharpie from silk and cotton with this stain remover. However, part of it is the art of actually removing the stain. Right. So you aren't just going to buy a bottle of Amadex, throw it on the stain and have it go away. It doesn't work like that. What you have to do is wearing gloves. And so you need a bottle of Amodex and either paper towels or some sort of rag. And you're going to put Amadex on the ballpoint pen ink stain and work it in, massage it in, and then massage out the ink and blot it up. It's gonna take you a long time. Yeah, it's gonna take you a long.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Item that you're trying to clean. How much is your time worth?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, I mean, I would do it and it can be done. Sometimes it takes not that long, but some of the stains that really get in there take a while to work out. And you have to be gentle too, because you don't wanna be putting so much friction on the stain that you start to wear it down.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Andrea Barnes]

So that. That's the difficulty with it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You talked about Amodex in the last episode. This. It's this soap based stain remover. Can you buy this at a grocery store or where do you buy it?

[Andrea Barnes]

I think you can buy it at Lowe's maybe. Mostly we would buy it online. You can buy it directly from them or you can. I think maybe they're probably on Amazon too. What I would do is I would just keep working it out and at a certain point, if it's no more inks coming out, then like, you're.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Then it might be time for a comforter cover.

[Rosie Guerin]

Wow. So it's a really kind of delicate process.

[Andrea Barnes]

It is. And it's really easy to get really frustrated and annoyed when you want a stain to come out and, like, go to town. So I do have to say, like, just tell yourself it's gonna take a long time.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Right.

[Andrea Barnes]

Like an hour.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Wow.

[Andrea Barnes]

Oof.

[Kyra Blackwell]

She must love her comforter.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah. Comforters.

[Rosie Guerin]

Good luck, Lucia.

[Andrea Barnes]

If it's driving you crazy, it's your blanket.

[Rosie Guerin]

I know.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, next we have a question from Mary in Savannah, Georgia, asking about a topic I know is super hard and sometimes impossible to remove. Cat pee. I'm going to read this one from Mary. She says, I have a very sweet cat who's elderly, but I love her so much. And every once in a while, seemingly for no reason at all, she'll just pee on a pillow, comforter or couch cushions, anything sort of soft. I've talked to her about this and asked her to stop, which, by the way, I think is amazing because my cat would never do anything that I tell her to do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

It sounds like this one doesn't either.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It seems like once a month she does this. I will always try to treat it as quickly as possible. I pour liquid detergent directly onto it. I put it in the washing machine, I run it on cold, and then I tend to run it on cold again. And most of the time the haunting smell of cat pee is gone. But sometimes it's not, and sometimes I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I'm just kidding myself if it's really there or if it's gone. Oh, I feel for Mary. Oh, man. You know, Andrea, I know from editing some of our pet gear guides that we often recommend an enzymatic pet stain remover like Nature's Miracle to clean pet beds and messes on carpets and upholstery. But the odor of cat pee is kind of a unique thing. And I know that it's really, really hard to remove, especially from things like upholstery or carpets that you can't just throw into the wash. So, yeah, it seems like it's a forever smell. So what do you advise here?

[Andrea Barnes]

Buying a washable rug?

[Rosie Guerin]

Asking her cat even more nicely.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, it actually sounds like Mary is doing everything correctly. And I have myself experienced washing something that not a cat but a dog has peed on. And it sometimes will take two washes. I do find that cold water is better for odor removal in this situation. For pillows, I might. If it's really bad, I might try soaking it with some sort of enzymatic or liquid laundry detergent or powder detergent. For rugs or upholstery, I would recommend looking at our steam vacuum guide. We have like the little upholstery cleaner.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Andrea Barnes]

And those usually come with some sort of enzymatic based cleaner like Nature's Miracle that work on pet stains. And it's worked for me. That's what I do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, Andrea. Staying in the vein of stains that you might not necessarily see, but you can smell, we've got a message from a listener in Los Angeles.

[Chen Yi]

Hi, wirecutter, this is Chen Yi from Los Angeles, and I have a stubborn stain for you. I decided to host my own tinned fish dinner party. Unfortunately, one thing led to another and some of the tinned fish oil spilled on my chambray jumpsuit. I immediately soaked the stain in dish soap and ran it through the laundry. Luckily, the color of the stain came out, but the jumpsuit still smells like fish. I treated it again by soaking it in Oxiclean and more laundry detergent, but the smell prevails. Wirecutter, how do I get Rid of the fish smell.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Ooh, stinky, stinky, stinky, stinky.

[Rosie Guerin]

Can wear it at home only with your nearest and dearest people who don't pass judgment.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I like a tinned fish dinner party.

[Andrea Barnes]

That's cute. That's fun. Yeah, I usually just eat tin fish standing at my counter. So without knowing what kind of laundry detergent was used, it's hard to have a complete answer. But I would say you've got kind of two options here. One is I would, depending on how much something smells, I would soak it in water with a good laundry detergent for an hour or two before washing it. The other thing I would try is I would try using an odor rinse. There are a few on the market. They're mostly acid based, so citric acid or vinegar based, they tend to be. We've tested one by Sonnet, which is a more natural, quote unquote laundry company. But we've also tested Downy Rinse and Refresh, I believe it's called, which is just. It looks almost like water in the bottle and you put it in the fabric softener dispenser. At the end of the cycle, it rinses and removes odor. I was kind of a naysayer and didn't believe in them for a while. But having tested a few of them now, they work really well. And they also have the added bonus of they basically clean your machine, too. Oh. Because, you know, most washing machine cleaners have citric acid in them. The citric acid can break down leftover detergent and everything else. So it's the same thing.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Oh, nice hot tip.

[Rosie Guerin]

So a reminder to not use fabric softener.

[Andrea Barnes]

Don't do it. Don't do it.

[Rosie Guerin]

But this odor removal stuff goes in the fabric softener compartment.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah. I think that it's become really popular now that we're switching so much to cold washing. There's so many more synthetic fabrics on the market, especially for, like, workout gear, that there's become this new need for extra odor removal.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Right. Cause workout gear really should be cleaned on cold.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It's kind of delicate and it should be air dried.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes. And it tends to grow a lot more bacteria. Right. Which means not being able to wash with warm is hard.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

You recommended washing with a really good detergent. Does it need to be powder or can it be liquid in this case? Because I know, like, tinned fish tends to be oily.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah. That's what's difficult. Because I would say liquid laundry detergent because of the oil. However, powder detergent's really good for odor removal. Like, really good.

[Rosie Guerin]

Could you do it once with the liquid and then once?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, you could. Also, it seems like she did say that the oil came out. Right, Right.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It says the oil came out, just not the smell.

[Andrea Barnes]

So if it's just for the smell, I would say powder detergent and then trying one of these odor removers.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's an art, not a science.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, we're going to switch gears to a different type of stain culprit. Paint. Ugh. This question is from rain in Virginia.

[Rayanne]

I'm a painter, and I have a really hard time getting acrylic paint that's already dried out of my clothing. The only way I know how to get it out is to catch it while it's still wet and scrub it underwater. But I can't get dried paint out. I've tried scratching it. I've tried oxiclean. I've tried all sorts of different, like, weird pinterest methods. I used a toothbrush and soap. I don't know what to do. Can you please help me out? Thank you.

[Andrea Barnes]

Okay. I'm sorry to say that almost any book you'll read about laundry and stain removal, they're not very optimistic about paint stains. I've had some success with acrylic paint using rubbing alcohol and actually dawn power wash, which is different than dawn soap. It's that spray on that's made for. Yeah, me too. It's great for paint stains oftentimes, particularly with acrylic paint stains. But again, without knowing exactly what pigments are in there, exactly what the formula was, it's hard for me to say what's going on. So I would try some rubbing alcohol with dawn power wash and putting it through a spin on cold. But it might not work.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Rubbing alcohol first. Like, you dab it on there.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah. So you Basically. The rubbing alcohol can loosen the stain. Loosen the paint, and you'll sort of see it like we talked about with the ink. You'll see it sort of start to bleed out. And then you can put the dawn power wash on it. So I'm working on. I've been able to get a number of paint stains out that way.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Oh, well, hopefully that works.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So while we're on this paint topic, we have another question, this time from Rayanne on the upper west side of Manhattan. She told us about going to the pride parade in the west village last summer and how she accidentally leaned up against a freshly painted subway railing.

[Dena]

I leaned up on the railing, which is covered in this very distinctive green paint. And in the Heat and the humidity, that paint started to melt, and I now have a nice stripe of green paint on my orange cotton dress. I tried a Tide stain remover, and then I tried the amateur stain remover that wirecutter recommends. And then I tried 100% acetone, because someone on the Internet said it was a good idea, and none of those things have worked. So I'm about to throw this dress in the bin, but if you have any other ideas, I'd love to try em.

[Rosie Guerin]

Someone on the Internet said it was a good idea.

[Andrea Barnes]

That's always the problem.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's a tattoo I have on my.

[Andrea Barnes]

So actually, this happened to my sister one of the first times she visited me in New York when I had moved. She had this supergirl shirt that she loved, and she did the same thing. She leaned on a pole and she was. We were never able to get it out. I started suspecting that this paint must be oil based, and I actually reached out to the MTA and they confirmed this. So oil based paint, if you're really serious about removing the stain, what I would do is go out. I would not recommend this every day. This would be like something you really, really love and want to hold onto and go get a bottle of mineral stuff. Spirits.

[Rosie Guerin]

What is a minute?

[Andrea Barnes]

What's that? It's called clean strip, but it's specifically for getting oil based paints out.

[Kyra Blackwell]

But clothing or just out of stock.

[Andrea Barnes]

It's actually for surfaces. But you could. I mean, if it's already a lost cause, you know, you could do this. But you want to do this with a mask, with gloves, not around any young children.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Well, ventilated area.

[Andrea Barnes]

Exactly. With a window open.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So it's like, aspect.

[Andrea Barnes]

It's like a byproduct of petroleum distillation. Oh, cool.

[Rosie Guerin]

So like poison.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It's just really stinky.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, it's stinky. And it's. You know, this would work, but it could also, you know, it's just. It's a lot to play with.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Will there be any dress left after that?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Andrea Barnes]

I mean, at this point, does it.

[Rosie Guerin]

Matter, right, if it's gonna go in the bin anyway?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, you might try it. And this actually, the empty MTA also said that this is what removes the pain.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And for anyone who doesn't know, the MTA is just the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which basically just runs New York City subway system.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's amazing. Concierge service.

[Andrea Barnes]

I mean, Andrea goes up to the MTA 10 minutes. I was like, wow.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm kind of shocked that the MTA responded in 10 minutes.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, I know, I know. It's like, oh my God.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Nobody's asking us about the trains.

[Andrea Barnes]

Take her call.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Take her call.

[Rosie Guerin]

Good luck. Rayanne, keep us posted on this.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we're back, we will take more of your toughest stain questions. Plus, Andrea, you're going to reveal why stains sometimes don't show up until after you wash your clothes. We'll be right back. Foreign.

[Kyra Blackwell]

We'Re here with our laundry and stain expert Andrea Barnes, taking all of our best listener questions.

[Rosie Guerin]

So, Andrea, when you were here with us back in August, you told us about your harrowing method for testing the removal of blood stains on clothing, which was, I believe, buying pig's blood in bulk from a butcher in Brooklyn and soaking it into clothes, which is absolutely horrifying.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Some might say dedicated, though.

[Rosie Guerin]

It's terrifying.

[Andrea Barnes]

I'm never gonna live that down.

[Rosie Guerin]

No, nor should you. Nor should you, to be honest. So. But our next question from Leah isn't quite as dramatic, you know, as the end of of Carrie. But she does have a blood stain related issue. So one of her kids gets bloody noses and got blood on a ghost spider hoodie, which is such a bummer. She managed to get some of it out using detergent and oxygen bleach soaking, then washing in cold. But what remained were these teardrop grayish marks. Any thoughts on how she can restore the hoodie and get rid of those strange marks?

[Andrea Barnes]

It's hard to say. It sounds like the dye may have actually faded in some way, which unfortunately there's not much you can do to fix that. But just to try and see if you could save it, I would try pre treating leftover marks with a really good liquid laundry detergent or a stain remover with oxygen bleach. But I would go with the liquid laundry detergent first since it sounds like she already did try oxygen bleach.

[Rosie Guerin]

So again, it's like it's just putting a little bit of liquid laundry detergent on these stains, letting it sit for a few minutes and then washing on cold.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes. Though I will say this sounds to me like the oxygen bleach may have been left on the blood stains a little bit long. And that's actually the discoloration that is being seen.

[Rosie Guerin]

And like you said, so discoloration is.

[Andrea Barnes]

A little bit like last cause. Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Man, oh man. What about hydrogen peroxide? What is that? What is that used for?

[Andrea Barnes]

So hydrogen peroxide is actually basically liquid oxygen bleach. So it's great for blood stains, one of our favorite stain removers for removing old blood stains is Clorox too. And the main ingredient is hydrogen peroxide. So it's basically liquid oxygen bleach, just another non chlorine bleach.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, Andrea, I want to hit another category of stains. Tannins. This could be red wine, dark chocolate, coffee, and in the case of our next caller, black tea.

[Olivia]

Hello, I'm Cheryl from Chicago. The stain that got the best of me was black tea on a high pile off white fleece vest. Unfortunately, the tea was hot and the item was not able to be washed right away. I tried everything from oxy to vinegar to baking soda. I soaked it overnight many, many times in different solutions. The stain did get lighter, but was never fully gone. I'd love to hear your ideas.

[Andrea Barnes]

So assuming that this fleece is like a synthetic polyester material, I would try either pre treating with an oxygen bleach paste or a hydrogen peroxide based stain remover because both of those work really well on dye stains or tannin stains. In this case, you could try either Tide Ultra Oxy or Clorox 2, both of which worked really well. Since you're not having any success with soaking, I would try directly pre treating and see, see from there what happens. You can usually tell if it's going to work because you'll actually see the stain physically change in appearance as you apply these stain removers.

[Rosie Guerin]

Even for an older stain.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah, sure.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Now, if this fleece that she has were not synthetic, if it were, say a wool flee, what would the treatment be then?

[Andrea Barnes]

The dry cleaner.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The dry cleaner. Because you should not use bleach on wool, right?

[Andrea Barnes]

You should not. We have recommendations for hand washing, but in this case I would just. Just take the dry cleaner. Just take the dry cleaner.

[Rosie Guerin]

Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

They'll work their magic.

[Rosie Guerin]

When you use something like a hydrogen peroxide, how do you apply it?

[Andrea Barnes]

The hydrogen peroxide product we recommend Clorox 2. The reason I say to leave this for like the last resort is because it's one of the trickier stain removers because it is so potent you can accidentally leave it on too long and that can cause problems. So when you pre treat with that hydrogen peroxide product, Clorox 2, it's the same pre treating for anything else. Right. You put it directly on the stain, either with a brush or with a gloved hand. And the only difference is you need to wash it within eight minutes.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Ooh. Set a timer.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The clock is dang.

[Rosie Guerin]

Oh dear.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

And why would you use a specific product like Clorox 2 that has hydrogen peroxide in it versus just getting that in that classic brown, brown bottle and pouring. Yeah, that. Right on.

[Andrea Barnes]

Because it has other things that are.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That are helpful.

[Andrea Barnes]

Yeah. And also there are ingredients in it built to make it more fabric safe.

[Rosie Guerin]

Got it.

[Andrea Barnes]

So you can be. I mean, I. Look, I've directly put hydrogen peroxide on laundry before, and I still do it sometimes if that's what I have on hand. That's why I try to say what's in it and then also the product.

[Rosie Guerin]

Got it.

[Andrea Barnes]

But in this case, I would go with Clorox too, because it's formulated to remove stains from clothes.

[Rosie Guerin]

Got it. Erring on the side of caution.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, the next two questions we got are specifically about deodorant and antiperspirant stains. This is Dena from Portland, Oregon, and Matt from Los angeles.

[Dena]

I have three sons who are all in their 20s now, but this started when they were teenagers and living at home. They all wear Axe deodorant. And one of my sons, he has a white film that shows up in his armpit area after he's worn the T shirt several times, and he ends up throwing away a lot of dark T shirts. So I was hoping that you would have a solution so I can let him know how to save his T shirts.

[J]

I am begging for your help in getting antiperspirant stains out of the armpits of my shirts. I have tried everything. Pre soaking them in laundry detergent, stain remover, sprays, boiling water, soaking baking soda and vinegar, oxygen based stain removers, lemon juice. I've read that meat tenderizer might work, but I haven't tried that because I'm more than a piece of meat. If there's any way you can help me avoid having to buy new shirts every time this happens, I will be forever grateful. Thank you so much.

[Andrea Barnes]

So it sounds like Dina and Matt have two separate issues, so I'm gonna answer each one differently. Dina, I would try pre treating those white deodorant stains with a paste of either baking soda and water or powder detergent and water. And basically, you want to take a tablespoon of baking soda and slowly add water to it and make a paste and then directly apply it to the deodorant stains. I would wait about 20, 30 minutes and then scrape the powder off over, like, a sink and then rinse it with cold water. That should remove the deodorant stains, if that's what the stain is. And then you would just wash it as you normally would. If that doesn't work. It means that that's not deodorant residue. I actually feel like you should give me a follow up and let me know if it does work or it doesn't and then we can keep problem solving from there. In the case of mat, it sounds like you're talking about pit stains, in which case I would pre treat with a good liquid laundry detergent and wash on warm. If the T shirts are white, a laundry detergent that contains oxygen bleach. So a powder laundry detergent like Tide.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ultra Oxy and Dena. I'd like to volunteer and help you problem solve the issue of your sons wearing Axe deodorant body spray. And that that might be a smell that's permeating all of your laundry, in which case you might think about a citric acid based laundry odor rinse.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Unsolicited advice, bringing it around. All right, so Andrea, last question of the day. This one is also about getting whites back to white, particularly when they are soiled over and over again. This is Olivia from Georgia.

[Chen Yi]

My stubborn stain laundry question is how do you get white baseball pants looking somewhat new game after game? My son's team has them wear white. And the red clay that we have in Georgia is so difficult to get out. I am team gray team dark jerseys to hide those stains. But unfortunately that is not what the team colors are. And so any advice you have on how to make those pants and uniforms look somewhat clean and new game after game would be very helpful.

[Olivia]

Absolutely.

[Chen Yi]

Love the show. Thank you so much.

[Rosie Guerin]

Thanks, Olivia.

[Andrea Barnes]

So this is actually one of my favorite questions, and I actually get this a lot. Baseball pants. This is a really simple fix. Soak in water with powder detergent. Powder detergent is great for getting clay and mud stains out. It doesn't really matter what powder detergent. Whatever one you can find is the one I would use.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So it doesn't need to have oxy in it.

[Andrea Barnes]

It doesn't need to. If they're really stubborn, you might want to get something that has oxy in it. But I would start with powder detergent.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, Andrea, we have had a lot of questions about oil stains, about how to get white sweater, and how to remove really tough stains like ink and paint. So we've covered all of that, but I want to throw you one last question. Are there any other stains that people commonly ask you about that we haven't covered?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes, I would say invisible stains.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Ooh, what's that?

[Andrea Barnes]

So those are stains that show up after you've done your Laundry, let's say you, you throw your clothes in, you check to make sure that there were no stains to pre treat there were none. And then when you take your T shirt out, there is a mysterious dark mark.

[Kyra Blackwell]

That happens to me all the time.

[Andrea Barnes]

Does it?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah.

[Andrea Barnes]

Do you drink a lot of champagne?

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yes. Wait, how'd you know that? Does that mean I'm just too drunk to notice?

[Andrea Barnes]

Like what's the difference? No. So champagne has sugar in it and the sugar can caramelize in warm water or under heat. So that's why I was asking. That's one of the more common quote unquote invisible stains.

[Rosie Guerin]

What?

[Andrea Barnes]

Another one, really common one that I get a lot of questions on is actually, and I don't know what's in it, but the residue from blowing bubbles, like the liquid bubbles. I get a lot of parents writing in that their kids clothes look clean and then when they wash them they come out with these weird spots. And most of them, their kids were blowing bubbles that day. I don't know what is reacting but whenever I've talked to the parents or I write back, they all wash their clothes in warm water. So I will say the best way to avoid invisible stains is to wash on cold and dry on the lowest heat setting that you can. Unless I knew what caused the invisible stain and couldn't necessarily tell you how to get that new stain out. But soaking in laundry detergent or oxygen bleach usually works.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Are there any other things that cause invisible stains?

[Andrea Barnes]

Yes. Other invisible stains tend to be sunscreen, which you throw your T shirt in the wash, it looks fine and it can come out looking pink. These are stains that you have no way of knowing they're going to happen. You just need to know how to solve them. Fortunately, sunscreen stains are a pretty easy fix because you know when you get them because they're pink.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Right. Okay. So if you are wearing a lot of sunscreen, you might want to be washing your clothes in cold.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, Andrea, we're going to ask you our final question, but we're going to put a little spin on it. What is your holy grail laundry product?

[Andrea Barnes]

I mean, I'm going to come out. I'm sure you're all going to be stunned to hear that it's tied ultra oxygen.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Shocking.

[Andrea Barnes]

I would be so excited if perhaps they made a fragrance free version of it one day.

[Rosie Guerin]

Andrea, thank you so much for coming back for pulling double duty. It was our first miniseries. We appreciate you. You rock.

[Andrea Barnes]

Thanks so much for having me. I always have a nice time Here.

[Rosie Guerin]

Andrea Barnes, back again. Two straight weeks of stains. She's amazing.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

She is our most featured guest so far. I cannot wait to have her back, actually.

[Rosie Guerin]

So thinking back between last week's episode and this week's, what are you two taking away? There was a lot of information packed in here. Lot of good nuggets.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, it's hard to even choose just a few, but mine will definitely be invisible stains. So now I know. Next time I have, you know, a boozy brunch or if I'm just generally around champagne or sunscreen or bubbles, then I should probably take a moment to just wash the clothes and let them air dry to see if there are any stains before I end up baking the stain in and making the problem worse.

[Rosie Guerin]

How often are you around bubbles? Like, are you taking your bubble wand out in the world and then putting.

[Kyra Blackwell]

On my sunscreen and then, you know, making myself a mimosa.

[Rosie Guerin]

Do you go to a lot of kids?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It sounds like a morning rave to me. Is that what it is?

[Kyra Blackwell]

That's the thing. You know, I live near Bushwick.

[Rosie Guerin]

Well, my takeaway is stain removal is an art. It's not necessarily a science, although there is science and chemistry involved. But one of the things to remember is that it might take a multiple step approach to get out any given stain. It might take multiple times soaking, putting stain remover on washes. So try not to get too discouraged. If it doesn't come out the first time, it might need another again as they say. And then my other takeaway is remember, if you're going to soak a garment in oxygen bleach of any kind, be sure to read and follow the instructions. Because some of them, like straight up oxiclean, need to be dissolved entirely in warm water before you dunk your garment in for the soak. Some of them don't, but some of them do. So just read and kind of follow along.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, always good to read the instructions. Never, never going to hurt.

[Rosie Guerin]

And coming from me, that's a big deal.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You know, there were a lot of great tips in this episode, but the thing that was completely new to me is laundry rinse. Using laundry rinse.

[Rosie Guerin]

I had smelled that.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, this downy rinse and refresh. So the next time I'm kind of challenged with something that like an odor that won't come out, I think I'm going to try that because it seems pretty handy.

[Rosie Guerin]

What's cool about that too is it pulls double duty cleaning your.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, I like that it cleans your machine, you know.

[Rosie Guerin]

Well, if you want to find out more about any of Andrea's reporting about wire cutters coverage or if you want to check out the products that we recommended today, you can go to our website or find a link in the show notes as always. And if you feel so inclined, give the Wirecutter Show a follow wherever you like to listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. That's it for us. Talk to you soon.

[Olivia]

See ya.

[Rosie Guerin]

Bye. The Wirecutter show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Matty Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson, original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba Itoub and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager is Cliff Levy. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor in chief.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Rosie Guerin]

And I'm Rosie Guerin. Thank you for listening. Who are these parents whose main concern is invisible stains? All of the stains I do, they're not invisible.