The True Cost of Recovering from the LA Wildfires, Part 2

Summary

The Wirecutter Show – “The True Cost of Recovering from the LA Wildfires, Part 2”

Date: January 9, 2026
Hosts: Christine Cyr Clisset, Rosie Guerin
Guests: Gregory Hahn, Mike Cohen

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Overview

In the second episode of their three-part series examining the aftermath of the 2025 LA wildfires, The Wirecutter Show dives into the long-term, often overlooked challenges of recovery. Hosts Christine Cyr Clisset and Rosie Guerin speak with colleagues Gregory Hahn and Mike Cohen, who share candid lessons learned as survivors: Gregory's home was severely damaged, while Mike lost his entirely. This episode zeroes in on the realities of disaster insurance—what to know, what to document, and why most people are less covered than they think—offering listeners essential, actionable advice for preparing for the unthinkable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lingering Effects of Disaster (06:23–08:04)

• Displacement and Identity: Both Gregory and Mike express the surreal disconnection from their own lives following the fire.

  • Mike, forced to rely on donated clothes:

    “When I look at myself in the mirror, I literally don’t recognize myself. It feels like everything is temporary for us.” (06:57, Mike Cohen)

  • The uncertainty is compounded by not knowing if or when they can return home.

• Family Milestones Upended:

  • Mike and his partner learn they’re expecting their first child just after losing their home:

    “Yeah. So the fires were pretty much the first week of January. A week later, we found out we were pregnant... It was a roller coaster.” (07:46, Mike Cohen)

  • Mike's daughter is born in October, marking stark contrasts between the family's old life and new reality.

2. The Reality of Disaster Aid (08:20–09:28)

• FEMA Aid is Limited:

  • Survivors received a standard sum—$770—which barely covered essentials.

    “Everybody gets the 770, yeah... That was to cover maybe some groceries, some basic necessities.” (08:49, Mike Cohen & Gregory Hahn)

  • Multiple appeals and rejections are common; most further expenses are not covered.

• Insurance: Massive and Unequal Relief

  • Gregory describes the sense of “luck of the draw” when approaching his insurer’s disaster tent for immediate help:

    “Some of our neighbors... did not get approved for two weeks. And it’s really that luck of the draw of insurance that is really maddening.” (09:28, Gregory Hahn)

3. The Critical Importance of Inventory and Documentation (10:17–15:43)

• Why You Need a Detailed List

  • Insurance claims depend on itemizing all property, a harrowing process after trauma.

    “Most people can’t tell you everything that's in their backpack right now... Imagine having to do that with every single drawer in your entire home.” (11:05, Mike Cohen)

  • Proof is necessary; without documentation, adjusters default to minimums.

• How to Make the Most Effective Inventory

  • Receipts help, but detailed photos/videos are best—Gregory and Mike stress the value of “video walkthroughs.”

    “If we had photographic documentation... it would have been so much easier.” (12:46, Mike Cohen)

    • Mike sent so many dog videos (“There’s Oona running away from the Dyson vacuum V8 absolute model...”) that his adjuster commented on it.

• When and How Often to Document

  • Key events: When moving, after life milestones, and “once every couple years.”

    “And lastly, like, do it today. Do it today. It’ll take eight minutes.” (15:05, Mike Cohen)

• Include Vital Documents and Heirlooms

  • Photos or scans of crucial records are essential for recovery logistics:

    “When you go to the bank to say, hey, I need some cash…if you don’t have proof that you bank with them, it becomes very, very difficult.” (15:58, Gregory Hahn)

4. Home Hardening: Investing in Prevention (21:07–24:29)

• Taking Physical Action

  • Gregory invested thousands into “home hardening”—trimming vegetation, replacing vents with “3-layer intumescent venting” to block ash and embers, and regular yard maintenance.

    “This vent that goes all across. This is what we paid for... It’s the three-layer intumescent venting.” (23:02, Gregory Hahn)

• Lack of Insurance Incentives

  • Despite his investment, Gregory’s insurance premiums dropped only $7.

    “I don’t know why the insurance aren’t incentivizing fire hardening efforts, because they save money in the long term.” (24:02, Gregory Hahn)

• Psychological Barriers to Preparation

  • Many in wildfire-prone LA still don’t take preventative steps, not for financial reasons, but avoidance:

    “…they just don’t want to think about it. And thinking about it is the first step.” (25:03, Gregory Hahn)

5. Understanding and Advocating for Insurance Coverage (25:46–36:37)

• The Complexity of Home Insurance Policies

  • Market instability: Insurers pulling out of California; many homeowners are left scrambling for coverage before/after disasters.
  • Mike reflects on risky assumptions:

    “I thought about disasters like most people think about them…It’s never going to happen to me.” (26:43, Mike Cohen)

  • Policies are dense and confusing, but understanding policy coverage is critical.

    “One of the first things…was to take our entire insurance policy, drop it into an AI chatbot and ask it questions.” (28:13, Mike Cohen)

• Three Key Forms of Coverage:

  • Personal property (possessions)

  • Additional Living Expenses (ALE)

  • Structure itself—the cost to rebuild/repair

  • Clarity empowers more effective claims:

    “That empowers you to meet with your insurer and demand exactly what you’re owed, what you paid for.” (29:04, Gregory Hahn)

• Remediation Experience

  • Gregory details the costly, protracted process of proving contamination and having his home professionally remediated—paying out of pocket for testing before eventual reimbursement.

    “We paid over $8,000 out of pocket... And then we use that in turn to inform the remediation team and our insurer to push back on them.” (32:23, Gregory Hahn)

6. The Uncomfortable Truth: Most People Are Under-Insured (35:51–36:37)

• Mike’s Stark Conclusion:

  “No. And I don’t know anybody who’s been fully covered to the extent of their losses.” (35:51, Mike Cohen)

  • His letter to his past self:

    “Get more.” (36:33, Mike Cohen)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the psychological struggle after disaster:

  “When I look at myself in the mirror, I literally don’t recognize myself.” (06:57, Mike Cohen)

• On aid and the randomness of relief:

  “It’s really that luck of the draw of insurance that is really maddening.” (09:28, Gregory Hahn)

• On the impossible ask of insurance claims:

  “Most people can’t tell you everything that’s in their backpack right now…Imagine having to do that with every single drawer in your entire home.” (11:05, Mike Cohen)

• On the critical importance of preparation:

  “Do it today. It’ll take eight minutes.” (15:05, Mike Cohen)

• On the reality of climate risk:

  “Climate change is going to reach all of us in some way. Observation… when it’s not so bad can prepare you for when it gets really bad.” (25:03, Gregory Hahn)

• On the confusion of insurance policies:

  “I think it’s too much to ask for everybody to read through their insurance policy, but it'd be really great for them to at least understand what it is and what they’re agreeing to.” (28:13, Mike Cohen)

• On underinsurance:

  “No. And I don’t know anybody who’s been fully covered to the extent of their losses.” (35:51, Mike Cohen)

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Suggested Actions for Listeners

• Document your possessions: Film a full home walk-through, open drawers/cabinets, capture brand/model details.
• Digitize critical documents: Store ID, insurance, heirlooms, and legal papers securely online.
• Understand your insurance: Read the policy or use expert/AI help to know your actual coverage.
• Invest in prevention: Consider home hardening for fire/flood/quake, even if insurance incentives are minimal.
• Evaluate your coverage amounts: Don’t assume the bare minimum will be sufficient.

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Recommended Listening Order & Episode Continuity

This is part two of a three-part series. New listeners are encouraged to check Part 1: The True Cost of Recovering from the LA Wildfires before diving into this in-depth examination of the insurance and recovery process. The promised third episode will further explore systemic issues of underinsurance in America.

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Transcript

[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

This podcast is supported by Northwestern Mutual. As someone who trusts expert advice, you should do the same with your finances. So now is the right time to talk with a financial expert about money recommendations. Northwestern Mutual can match you with a financial professional who'll build a plan based on what's important to you, looking out for your blind spots and finding new opportunities to help grow your wealth and protect what you've worked so hard for. Find a better way to [e-mail], the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This is the second part of a three part series on the LA wildfires. One year later. If you haven't listened to part one yet, go back and find it in our feed. It's called the True Cost of recovering from the LA wildfires. Part one, 4063.

[Gregory Hahn]

And I think that's this one.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That's green. Yeah, there's the mailbox. In December, I drove up a beautiful winding road with my co host Rosie Guerin and our producer Abigail Keel. We were headed to our colleague Gregory Hahn's home. In January 2025, Gregory and his wife Emily evacuated from their home, thinking they'd only be gone for a few days. But the damage and destruction from the Eaton fire kept them from moving back for six months.

[Gregory Hahn]

So you can see it's a very Oakline Street.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Is that eucalyptus or something?

[Gregory Hahn]

What is that you are probably smelling? There's sage. There is.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Gregory's house is on the top of a big hill. He lives on a small cul de sac with a handful of other homes all built in the Meadows neighborhood of Altadena. A year out from the fire. None of the homes around him looked burned. The fires didn't even come up the side of the hill. But it doesn't mean they weren't damaged.

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah, so when I arrived here, this area was the most obvious, contaminated with particulate matter. All this curb had caught everything that was blowing this way. So the smoke had come over and apparently like blown with the wind down this way because our neighbor and our friend Sandy, she lost her roof. So it's all redone.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This across the street?

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah, across the street. And so apparently it blew in here and it just accumulated all around the circle. This circle driveway, which I love, became a big catch.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So what did it look like?

[Gregory Hahn]

It looked like somebody dumped a bunch of like salt and pepper, like big white and gray and black pieces that had accumulated into piles. I came one time, fully PP'd and gathered it and put it in a baggie and sent out a sample to test right away.

[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

Did the sample that you sent away, what did that one come back?

[Gregory Hahn]

It showed high lead. Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette and this is the Wirecutter Show. This is part two of our special series looking back at the LA wildfires. One year later, Gregory and our other colleague Mike Cohen both survived the Eaton Fire, which raged through the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains. They faced different consequences. Mike's home was destroyed, Gregory's was damaged. But they both are still navigating what it means to live through a natural disaster. Because Gregory and Mike are both wirecutter riders, they tend to be practical and service minded and they've thought a lot about what others can take away from their experiences. Last summer they published an article that gave their best advice for anyone who might face a natural disaster. We're drawing from that article and what they've Learned in the 6 months since last time. We heard about what happened during the fire and immediately after for Gregory and Mike and about one of their biggest investing in your community before a disaster. Today we're going to hear about what's happened in their lives since the fires and their advice for how to navigate a big piece of the puzzle of recovery insurance. They've got one simple suggestion you can do now that you'll thank yourself for later.

[Gregory Hahn]

In a disaster, you just assume, I think, that they will take your word for it. That's a very unsafe presumption, you know.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We'll hear more from Gregory and Mike after the break.

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[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

This podcast is supported by Northwestern Mutual. As someone who trusts expert advice, you should do the same with your finances. So now is the right time to talk with a financial expert about money recommendations. Northwestern Mutual can match you with a financial professional who'll build a plan based on what's important to you, looking out for your blind spots and finding new opportunities to help grow your wealth and protect what you've worked so hard for. Find a better way to [e-mail], the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

One thing that Gregory and Mike both told us about their year since the fire is is that they sometimes feel like they're living someone else's life. Gregory was displaced for six months while his home was remediated, which means it needed to be professionally cleaned and repaired to make it safe to live in again. Mike doesn't have a home to go back to. Soon after the fires, he and Chelsea moved in with family in Texas. In April, they came back to la. After a few different Airbnbs, they settled into a rental apartment.

[Mike Cohen]

When I wake up in the morning and I choose the clothes to wear, they're not my clothes. All of these clothes that I'm wearing right now are donation, which I'm so grateful for. But when I look at myself in the mirror, I literally don't recognize myself. It feels like everything is temporary for us. Since the fires, we don't know what the rebuilding process will look like. We don't know if we'll get back to Altadena. We don't know if Altadena will be fully safe for us to go back to. We don't know if it'll be the Altadena that we bought a house and wanted to raise a family in.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

And speaking of family, your life does look a lot different this year, right, Than it did before the fires.

[Mike Cohen]

Yeah. So the fires were pretty much the first week of January. A week later, we found out we were pregnant with our first child. So it was a roller coaster.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Mike's daughter Florence was born in October.

[Mike Cohen]

Yeah, everything is different. Everything is different. Everything that makes you feel like you when you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, this is my coffee machine, the way that I like to do it. Everything is different.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

One hurdle disaster victims face after their immediate safety is taken care of is where to live and how to replace their stuff. Mike and Gregory both Assumed that fema, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which provides disaster assistance, would offer some of this help. But the first check they each received after the fire was mostly much less than they'd expected, covering only a fraction of their expenses.

[Gregory Hahn]

And we got 700. Was it seven?

[Mike Cohen]

770.

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah. Everybody got the 770.

[Mike Cohen]

Everybody gets the 770, yeah.

[Gregory Hahn]

And that was to cover maybe some groceries, some basic necessities, and then everybody else. I haven't heard of anybody else getting any other FEMA aid.

[Mike Cohen]

No, we. We've been rejected multiple times and we've appealed multiple times.

[Gregory Hahn]

Same here.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Other LA wildfire victims have received more. As of June 2025, FEMA and its federal partners reported dispensing over $3 billion in funds to wildfire survivors. In reality, many of those initial costs for Gregory and his wife were covered by their home insurance.

[Gregory Hahn]

We ambled into our insurers mobile disaster tent that they'd set up in Altadena. We walked in and said, we need help. We're affected by the fires and we need help. We need money for groceries. We're not working. We just need money to get by. And we were really fortunate because the guy who we met said, oh, I'll approve today. Right off the bat, Some of our neighbors immediately next to us did not get approved for two weeks. And it's really that luck of the draw of insurance that is really maddening. I remember walking out of the tent, I said, at least for the next three months, we'll be okay. And that's how you move forward. It's like next week, next month. Yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Eventually, though, disaster victims need more than just money for groceries and immediate housing. You need to start replacing the items you use every day, the items that make up your daily life. You need money for these items. And to get that money from an insurance company, you need to prove that you actually owned these items. That's where the list comes in.

[Mike Cohen]

This is the list of every single thing in your home. If you were to take your home.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

And dump it out, Home insurance policies cover not just your home, but also the things inside it. Your personal property. And when, like Mike, you've lost everything and need money to replace that, property insurance asks for a list of exactly what they're paying to replace.

[Mike Cohen]

Most people can't tell you everything that's in their backpack right now. If you were to dump all of it out and itemize it, imagine having to do that with every single drawer in your entire home, every box in your attic, every shelf with every single Book, you will get paid some amount for every single item, but only if you can remember it. They're protecting themselves against fraud. They're only paying out as much as they have to. And we're on the other side of it going, I, I don't know how many pairs of socks I had.

[Gregory Hahn]

There are a lot of things that are hidden away that you just store away and forget just being an American. So when you go through the process of making a claim with your insurance, they want proof that you own these things. So by having everything documented, you're already doing the footwork with the insurance. There have been instances where we had to push back and say, oh, no, no, no, that's not what we owned. You're giving us the lesser of this thing.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Mike and Gregory's advice for what to do now to protect yourself before a disaster is to start making this list. Document your possessions. Keeping receipts, especially digital ones, will help, but you'll also want photographic evidence of your items. It's something Mike and Gregory both wish they had done more thoroughly before the fires. If you had had photographic documentation of everything that you had in your home, would it have made it easier in the weeks after the fire with your insurance company?

[Mike Cohen]

Yes. If we had had photographic documentation, video documentation that was really intentionally done, it would have been so much easier. We could have started the conversation and the negotiations with our insurance company with that documentation. Instead, what we had to do was reach out to all of our friends and go through all of our photos and try to find as much of it as we could. We went through friends Instagrams, we went through deep dives of our photos, really. Luckily, we had just gotten our dog the year before. And as any first time young puppy owner will tell you, you're taking videos of them all the time throughout your entire house. Oh, here's Oona running away from the Dyson vacuum V8 absolute model. Oh, there's Oona. She's turning the corner and she's right next to the air purifier. Like, we sent our insurance adjuster so many videos of our dog that by the end she actually remarked on it and was like, your dog is really cute and you've done a great job.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Training her the process of making the list and negotiating with insurance for payment. It looks different for everyone depending on what you lost and the insurance you have. But Gregory and Mike have both been surprised by just how long it can take.

[Gregory Hahn]

We're still in the process of working with our insurance to replace or be paid a certain amount with Depreciation of what we lost, what we had to throw out due to contamination. And I will say that it's a six figure amount, which is crazy. It all adds up.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

They recommend taking a video walkthrough of your home film as you walk from room to room. Open every drawer, open every cabinet for important items. Show the brand or model. Don't forget your garage, the attic or the basement. You want the video to be your exhaustive dump it all out list. How frequently should people be documenting their homes if they're trying to prepare themselves for some unfortunate event that might happen in the future? Is this something they should be doing annually? Is it something every three years? Because, I mean, I think people would have the intent to do this, but it seems like kind of something that nobody wants to do.

[Mike Cohen]

Do it when you move. You're moving into a new place, you're probably going to take a video of it so that your landlord knows what it looks like and you can prove it to them. Do it when you move. Do it when you have a major life event. Oh, we got married. Here's everything on our registry. Oh, a parent passed away and now we're having to go through all of their possessions and then do it once every couple years and you're going to be fine. And lastly, like, do it today. Do it today. It'll take eight minutes.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Don't forget your important documents, photos, family heirlooms. Take photos. Or scan your identification and legal documents. Make sure that if you were to lose access to these physical items, you, you could still access the information they hold.

[Gregory Hahn]

When you go to the bank to say, hey, I need some cash just to get some groceries, if you don't have proof that you bank with them, it's hard, it becomes very, very difficult to prove a lot of things that we take for granted when we have just access to it all the time. So having a digitized version of your life that you can like say all these things are true about myself, when you're asked of it, because you run into so many challenges of who you are and what your life is in a disaster that you just didn't expect, you just assume, I think, that they will take your word for it. And that's, that's a very unsafe presumption, you know. So having digital access to things that are normally part of your life just gives you a little bit of an insurance policy.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Beyond documenting your stuff, there's something else you should do now. You probably won't like it. It may require that you face some of your greatest fears, but it could save your home, if not your life. We'll talk more about that after the break.

[LinkedIn Jobs Sponsor]

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[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

This podcast is supported by North. As someone who trusts expert advice, you should do the same with your finances. So now is the right time to talk with a financial expert about money recommendations. Northwestern Mutual can match you with a financial professional who'll build a plan based on what's important to you, looking out for your blind spots and finding new opportunities to help grow your wealth and protect what you've worked so hard for. Find a better way to [e-mail] the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company.

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah, and down there is a creek. If you hike it all the way up goes to a waterfall, which is really beautiful.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It's December 2025 and I'm standing in Gregory's backyard with Rosie and Abigail. It's beautiful. There's a dining table area, string lights and two lounge chairs overlooking an incredible view of the mountains and the city below. Gregory says he thinks the six foot tall hedges that used to block this view might have been what actually got him the house. No one else realized quite what was behind them. He ripped them out when he moved in.

[Gregory Hahn]

So you came up on that road right there and this is a good place to look out. That bare spot right there. There used to be several homes and Those I believe 53 homes burned so that's where it stopped. The fire had stopped there.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Just right there.

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah. Like, right where that. Where you see, like, it's kind of bare now.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Gregory Hahn]

Those homes up there. Yeah.

[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

You can hear the creek.

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah, yeah. It's really, really. Emily and I sit here to old fogies very often and just quietly listen to that. And the.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You can hear a little bit of the city, but it's so peaceful. Gregory turns back towards the house. The entire backside of it is made of glass. Sliding doors, five sets, two doors each. You can see into the kitchen, his living room. His two cats paw one of the panes of glass.

[Gregory Hahn]

There's our cats, Hani and Hobie. They had left. They were this big when they left. And now they're thriving. Yeah, they're thriving, yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Gregory Hahn]

Standing up, yeah.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

He points to the corner of the house where the side wall meets the glass doors.

[Gregory Hahn]

But this is where a lot of the. That corner right there, that last window, is where a lot of the particulate matter got into. But all across here inside was a line of Soochar ash. You could just see it was like a coke line of.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

The fires were a huge shock to Gregory. They upended his life, but they weren't a surprise.

[Gregory Hahn]

Growing up in Los Angeles, I had numerous occasions where we had to evacuate. I never took wildfire, you know, lightly. I'm very much like somebody who has a go bin, emergency supplies ready to go, have backpack ready to go. I have all this forethought in understanding, like, these fires can come so quickly, faster than you think.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

When he bought his home, he considered the area and evaluated the risks. It was right by a national forest. There was only one road in and out.

[Gregory Hahn]

And I knew if we were going to buy into this neighborhood, we'd have to be ready in so many ways. And so I had a mind state. What's the worst thing that could happen?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This mindset of confronting what you are really at risk for based on where you live is something that Gregory and Mike both said stuck out to them in the year after the fires. While you certainly can't truly prepare for the realities of every possible disaster, you can be aware and take some precautions. After Gregory moved into his home, he invested a lot of time and money into a process called home hardening. This term means you're making your home and the land around it more resistant to heat, embers, and fires. So your house is basically less likely to catch fire. For Gregory, it meant regular cleanup of brush, leaves, and pine needles from his gutters and yard, trimming back trees that were too close to the house and replacing old vents that surrounded his home with custom intumescent venting. Intumescent materials swell when exposed to heat and are used for passive fire protection. Gregory's vents have three layers, including an intumescent honeycomb layer that swells closed in the presence of intense heat. He showed them to us when we were walking around his property.

[Gregory Hahn]

But you can see the intumescent vent. This vent that goes all across. This is what we paid for. This is the three layer intumescent venting. So it's a very narrow filter. Then it goes to an intumescent material that will close off after 430 degree temperature and then another layer of venting. So this had prevented a lot of things from going in.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

There's no way to know if the home hardening Gregory did Prevented his home from catching fire, but he does believe that the vents he installed Helped block particulate matter and ash from entering. Neighbors without upgraded vents Saw more ash in their attics. Gregory paid for those upgrades out of pocket. The vents alone cost him over $7,000. Did any of this fire hardening you did for your home Impact your insurance premiums? Did it give you any kind of, like, discount or anything?

[Gregory Hahn]

Yeah, you know, we thought that that would help, and we contacted our agent and said, hey, we've put in intumescent fire resistant vents. The agent said, yeah, he'll save about $7. And I've been thinking about that. I don't know why the insurance Aren't incentivizing fire hardening efforts, because they save money in the long term.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Although Gregory didn't see a meaningful decrease in his premiums for the vents he installed, the insurance information institute, an industry research, Says homeowners could see bigger premium discounts for other upgrades. Things like installing an impact resistant roof, which is more resistant to wind. Gregory says that his lesson in all of this Is to be a realist and prepare your home for the risks it faces.

[Gregory Hahn]

I think you have to be observant In a way that most people are averse to. It's really tough because you can only prepare what you know.

[Mike Cohen]

And.

[Gregory Hahn]

And that comes from observation. I think a lot of people that I have spoken to in Los angeles, Even though they know that there's all these fires that happen, they haven't done anything. And it's like crazy to me because they're. And I'm not talking about people who are in an economic situation that, like, they can't afford to. They just don't want to think about it. And Thinking about it is the first step. Climate change is going to reach all of us in some way. But I think, yeah, just observation, knowing when it's not so bad can prepare you for when it gets really bad.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

One of the major reasons why it's important to understand your home and risks it faces is so that you can make sure your home insurance policy covers you in the event that one of those risks actually happens. Nearly all home insurance policies include fire coverage, but depending on where you live, you may want additional coverage for floods, earthquakes or other disasters. Gregory and Mike both said that when they bought their homes, they were concerned they wouldn't be able to get coverage. That's because major insurers have been pulling out of the California market over the past few years, citing soaring costs, untenable financial risk and state regulations. In fact, thousands of homeowners in the area lost their coverage just the year before the fires. While there are some state sponsored options, potential homeowners are facing tough choices.

[Mike Cohen]

Our Realtor was always very upfront about how living in certain areas we would have trouble getting insurance or fire insurance or it might be more expensive because we were in high fire risk areas and there was even a map of what is high fire risk and what is not. We saw ourselves and we were medium risk and we thought, oh wow, well maybe this is a risk that other people aren't willing to take. But if it's what we can afford and it's a risk we're willing to take, maybe that means we get a house. I thought about disasters like most people think about them. Wow, that's really sad that happened to those other people, but it's never going to happen to me.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Mike was insured. He had fire coverage, but that he says is basically all he knew about his home insurance policy.

[Mike Cohen]

I knew my mortgage lender needed a certain amount of it in order to okay our loan, but to me it was more like car insurance. Oh man, how can I get my monthly premium down as much as I can? I don't think I read my entire policy. When I got it, I saw three or four numbers. They seemed like enough. I signed on the line and I paid every month or every year.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

When Mike signed his contract with the insurance company, he got a document that was 40 some odd pages long.

[Mike Cohen]

After the catastrophe happened, one of the first things that we did was to take our entire insurance policy, drop it into an AI chatbot and ask it questions. What does upgrade code and rebuilding amenities mean? What does landscaping remediation mean? Because again, the insurance company is Doing a great job of crossing their T's and dotting their I's, but. But in such a way that can be obfuscating to the average individual who's just paying a premium every month. I think it's too much to ask for everybody to read through their insurance policy, but it'd be really great for them to at least understand what it is and what they're agreeing to know.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Your policy, that's what Mike and Gregory recommend today. Read it or get help reading it so that if you need to use it, you know what you're entitled to.

[Gregory Hahn]

And that empowers you to meet with your insurer and demand exactly what you're owed, what you paid for.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

There are three main things that home insurance can help you pay for after a disaster. One is personal property, which we talked about earlier. This covers the cost of your items. The second thing your policy should cover is additional living expenses, commonly called ale, which typically cover the cost of being displaced. So rent money for a new apartment. While you're waiting for your damaged home to be livable or your destroyed home.

[Gregory Hahn]

To be rebuilt, the more you know what is exactly in your policy. And that is very difficult to do. It's very difficult to parse, and it's intentionally difficult to understand. Once you have that information, key points, then you can say, I am demanding this, this, this, and that, because they'll play the shell game of saying, well, I don't know if you really need that. Well, yeah, I need rent. I need somewhere to live. And that moves you forward. And every step forward brings you a little to a better place. When you're not moving or you feel like you're regressing, that's where the hopelessness starts kicking in, because you don't know what to do. So knowing what to do and what to ask for is important. And that starts from knowing your policy.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You want to be able to speak the same language as the insurance adjusters you might be working with. You want to know how to ask for what you need in a way where they can't say no. The third thing your home insurance should cover is the value of the home itself, the cost to repair or rebuild a damaged or destroyed structure. This one can get really tricky. We'll talk about repairing a damaged home first. That's what happened to Gregory. When Gregory was eventually able to come back to his property after the fires, his yard was covered in that salt and pepper dust he described earlier. It wasn't just in his yard. The wind pushed through the cracks and vents in his home. It's what collected inside his glass doors, and that dust was full of pollutants. Pollution caused by the fires has been an ongoing concern for people in the neighborhood. Many still standing homes have tested positive for lead and asbestos. Even after extensive indoor cleanup, Gregory felt that his home was unsafe to move back into, especially because his wife had just finished cancer treatment. He wanted to go through remediation.

[Gregory Hahn]

Remediation is the process of bringing your home, your livable space back to safe levels prior to whatever disaster has affected the interior space. I always tell people, if they've seen the movie E.T. where they close off the family's home, the government agent comes and like seals it in plastic so nobody can get in and out without bringing contamination or bringing contamination out. That's very similar to what we saw.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

But in order to have his home remediated, he had to prove that it was in fact contaminated and unsafe to live in. To do this, he needed to test the soil on his property and the pollutant levels in the different places in his home.

[Gregory Hahn]

We tested for soot, char, ash, and lead specifically. And those tests were expensive. We paid out of pocket. So our insurer at first said they would not COVID testing. That was a big, big problem. That's why a lot of people couldn't move forward was without testing, you don't get remediation coverage for remediation or lead abatement remediation. So we paid over $8,000 out of pocket to have a certified industrial hygienist come who is trained to properly take samples from across your home and look for contamination levels and break it down. And then we use that in turn to inform the remediation team and our insurer to push back on them.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Were you ever reimbursed for that out of pocket expense?

[Gregory Hahn]

Yes, but it was approximately six months later.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That's the kind of thing that Gregory wishes he had clearer language about in his home insurance policy covering that initial testing. After the testing came back showing unsafe levels of contaminants, Gregory moved forward with remediation. This process is what kept him from returning home for six months after the fire.

[Gregory Hahn]

They sealed the home in plastic. So the windows, the doors, then they go in, and then they put the things that they feel like were contaminated and that we agreed to have thrown out, put in plastic sealed bags, and then they start disposing the items. Once all that is taken out, they start putting your items in piles that they can start cleaning individually. So things as small as your books. I had records that were cleaned. They wiped down your furniture, they wiped out on your floors, they vacuum, they run these industrial sized air purifiers to clean the interior air. They're doing it room by room and then what you're left with is just like piles of stuff. They don't put things back and it passed. Because after you have remediation then you have to have post remediation testing, clearance testing to prove that they did the right job. So we were very fortunate. Our remediation team did a good job and we were able to get back in.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Some of Gregory's neighbors are still not back in their homes. Maybe they couldn't afford the necessary testing out of pocket or couldn't get it covered by insurance. Or maybe their results required remediation of a larger area which costs more money. Everyone's situation is different. Insurance is something most people don't think much about until they need it. But following Mike and Gregory's advice now could save you major headaches in the future. Document your stuff. Digitize your documents and if you're at risk of certain natural disasters, try to adjust your home accordingly. And maybe most importantly, understand what your insurance policy covers. This can help make sure you have the coverage you need. If you face a situation like Gregory's where your home is damaged but not destroyed, it can also help you understand how much coverage you have. If, like Mike, you lose your entire home and need money to replace it. Were you covered enough for your losses?

[Mike Cohen]

No. And I don't know anybody who's been fully covered to the extent of their losses.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Unfortunately, Mike's insurance policy is not enough to cover the full cost of replacing his home. We're going to talk more about why that is and why many Americans may be in the same situation without even realizing it next time. If you were to write yourself a letter today to yourself from two years ago about insurance, what would be the main things that you would say to yourself?

[Mike Cohen]

Get more.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Find the last installment of this series right here on Monday.

[Northwestern Mutual Sponsor]

This series was reported and hosted by Christine Cyrclassette. The Wirecutter show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. This series was fact checked by Cole Lewison and the audio was mixed by Katie McMurran. Engineering support from Matty Masiello and Nick Pittman. Our interview with Gregory and Mike was recorded by Tim Moore at York Recording in Los Angeles. Original music for this series by Marian Lozano, Dan Powell, Alicia Ba Itupe, Rowan Niemisto, Katherine Anderson and Pat McCusker. Special thanks to Harry Sawyers and Jen Gushew for editing Gregory's original article, and to Daniel Ramirez from New York Times Audio. Cliff Levy is Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor in chief. We thank you so much for listening. This podcast is supported by Northwestern Mutual. As someone who trusts expert advice, you should do the same with your finances. So now is the right time to talk with a financial expert about money recommendations. Northwestern Mutual can match you with a financial professional who'll build a plan based on what's important to you, looking out for your blind spots and finding new opportunities to help grow your wealth and protect what you've worked so hard for. Find a better way to [e-mail], the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company.