Tormented by Our Printers

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Wirecutter Show – "Tormented by Our Printers"

Episode Information:

• Title: Tormented by Our Printers
• Release Date: January 8, 2025
• Hosts: Christine Cyr Clisset, Kyra Blackwell, Rosie Guerin
• Guest: Ben Keough, Wirecutter’s Home Office and Cameras Editor

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Introduction to Printer Frustrations

The episode opens with the hosts, Christine Cyr Clisset, Kyra Blackwell, and Rosie Guerin, sharing their favorite recipes from New York Times Cooking, creating a warm and relatable start for listeners. However, the tone shifts swiftly as Rosie delves into her personal frustrations with home printers, setting the stage for the episode's main topic.

Rosie Guerin begins at [01:05] by recounting her stressful evening caused by the necessity of printing forms for her twins’ doctor appointment. She vents her disdain for printers, citing their cumbersome size, complicated connectivity, and the high cost of ink:

“Printers are the worst. Listen, they're large, they're clunky... Inflation is high. Am I really meant to set money aside for toner or ink? Get out of here.” [00:01:22]

Understanding the Universal Printer Struggle

Christine relates to Rosie’s frustrations, referencing a previous Wirecutter article titled "All Printers Suck," and shares her own transition from an unreliable inkjet to a more dependable laser printer:

“I used an inkjet for many, many years and I was definitely in your camp... And then I switched over to a real cheap laser printer from Brother, which is actually like a precursor. And you know what? I'm pretty happy with it...” [00:03:02]

Kyra adds her perspective, opting not to own a printer herself due to similar frustrations but acknowledges the need for some households:

“I want a printer at home because my kids sometimes need to print stuff for school... But buying a printer can be really confusing.” [00:04:03]

Expert Insight with Ben Keough

To address these challenges, the hosts bring in Ben Keough, an experienced Wirecutter journalist specializing in home office equipment. Ben provides an in-depth analysis of the printer landscape, starting with the fundamental types of printers: inkjet and laser.

Differences Between Inkjet and Laser Printers:

At [00:07:59], Ben explains:

“An inkjet printer uses a nozzle to spray tiny sub-millimeter dots of ink onto paper in a very precise pattern... Laser printers... point a laser that imitates the pattern of the image or text onto a drum, which is electrostatically charged.” [00:07:59]

Pros and Cons:

Ben elaborates on the advantages of inkjet printers, particularly their superior color quality, making them ideal for photos and family snapshots. However, he highlights significant downsides such as higher ongoing costs due to expensive ink cartridges and maintenance issues like clogged printheads.

Conversely, laser printers are praised for their speed, durability, and lower cost per page, especially for black and white documents. Despite these benefits, laser printers generally come at a higher upfront cost and lack the photo-printing prowess of inkjets.

Decision-Making Process for Choosing a Printer

Ben guides listeners through a decision tree to determine the most suitable printer based on individual needs:

1. Do You Need a Printer?

   • Many can rely on public or commercial printing services, reducing the necessity of owning a printer.

2. How Often Do You Print?

   • Infrequent Printing/Text-Only: A basic black and white laser printer, such as the Brother HL2460DW ([00:11:58], [00:12:15]), is recommended for its efficiency and low cost per page.
   • Frequent Printing/Color Needs: An inkjet offers better color quality for photos and versatile functionalities like scanning and copying, though with higher ongoing costs.

3. Specialized Needs (e.g., Photo Printing):

   • Hobbyist or Professional Photographers: A dedicated photo printer, though expensive (up to $1,000 for models like the Canon Pro Image Graph Pro 1000), provides superior photo quality and versatility.
   • General Home Use: Multifunction inkjets balance cost and functionality, suitable for both documents and casual photo printing.

Ongoing Costs and Cost-Saving Strategies

Cost per Page:

At [00:18:03], Ben introduces the concept of cost per page, advising listeners to calculate the annual costs based on ink or toner consumption. This metric helps in understanding the true cost of owning a printer.

Third-Party Inks and Toners:

Rosie voices concerns about the high cost of ink refills and the reliability of third-party cartridges. Ben addresses these by acknowledging that while third-party inks can reduce costs, they may compromise print quality and compatibility:

“Inkjets do have certain advantages... but the downside is... ink costs more than toner and it's also very tightly controlled by the manufacturers... sometimes not even use third party ink.” [00:07:15]

Ben also discusses the challenges posed by manufacturers like HP, who lock printers into using their proprietary inks, limiting consumer choices and increasing costs.

Refurbished Printers:

Christine shares her positive experience with buying a refurbished printer, prompting Ben to recommend purchasing refurbished models from reputable sources, such as directly from manufacturers like Brother, to ensure reliability and warranty support.

Alternatives to Owning a Printer

Ben suggests alternatives for those who find owning a printer too cumbersome or expensive:

• Public and Commercial Printing Services: Libraries, FedEx, and office supply stores offer affordable printing options.
• Mobile Scanning Apps: Tools like Adobe Scan can replace traditional scanners, providing high-quality document scans via smartphones.
• Photo Labs: Services like Nations Photo Lab offer superior photo printing without the need for home equipment.

Lightning Round: Printer Recommendations for Specific Tasks

The hosts engage in a lightning round where Rosie poses various printing scenarios, and Ben provides tailored printer recommendations:

1. Returning Shoes (Printing a Label):

   • Recommendation: Use a black and white laser printer or utilize services at FedEx or UPS stores to print the label directly. [29:20]

2. Printing a Photo for a School Project:

   • Recommendation: A color laser printer is sufficient for non-glossy photos; otherwise, use a color laser or take the photo to a FedEx store for higher quality. [29:43]

3. Printing Paper Copies of Bills:

   • Recommendation: Black and white laser printer for efficient and cost-effective document printing. [29:58]

4. Occasionally Printing Important Documents (e.g., Passport Applications, Medical Docs):

   • Recommendation: Black and white laser printer for reliability and low maintenance. [30:07]

5. Budding Photographer Printing Exceptional Work:

   • Recommendation: Invest in a dedicated photo printer or utilize a professional photo lab for high-quality prints. [30:14]

Final Takeaways and Recommendations

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts summarize their key insights:

• Opt for a Black and White Laser Printer: For the majority, especially those who primarily print text documents, a basic laser printer like the Brother HL2460DW offers reliability and low ongoing costs.
• Consider Inkjet Printers for Color Needs: If color printing, especially photos, is essential, an inkjet or dedicated photo printer may be appropriate despite the higher costs.
• Explore Refurbished Options: Purchasing refurbished printers from reputable sources can provide cost savings without sacrificing quality.
• Leverage Alternative Services: Utilize public and commercial printing services to avoid the hassles and costs of owning a printer.

Rosie Guerin reflects on the episode’s insights, expressing a newfound appreciation for laser printers while still harboring some printer-related frustrations:

“Honestly, my main takeaway is I probably should get a laser printer. When I'm really ready to get serious about having something in my home, I can pick one up for $160...” [32:26]

Ben Keough shares a personal note on his passion for photography and his recent acquisition of a vintage Nikon F3 camera, highlighting the intersection of technology and personal hobbies.

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Conclusion: "Tormented by Our Printers" provides a comprehensive exploration of the challenges associated with home printers, guiding listeners through the complexities of choosing the right device based on their specific needs and budget. With expert advice from Ben Keough, the episode demystifies printer technology, offers practical cost-saving strategies, and presents viable alternatives for those wary of the traditional printing experience.

For more detailed recommendations and product reviews, visit nytimes.com/wirecutter.

Transcript

[Ben Keough]

I use New York Times cooking at least three to four times a week.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I love sheet pan bibimbap. It said 35 minutes, it was 35 minutes.

[Rosie Guerin]

The cucumber salad with soy, ginger and garlic. Oh, my God. That is just to die for.

[Kyra Blackwell]

This turkey chili has over 17,000 five star ratings.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So easy, so delicious.

[Ben Keough]

The instructions are so clear, so simple, and it just works.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Hey, it's Eric Kim from New York Times Cooking.

[Ben Keough]

Come cook with us.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Go to nytcooking.com.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

From the new York Times. You're listening to the Wirecutter Show.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Hey, everyone, it's the Wirecutter Show. I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyrclassette.

[Rosie Guerin]

And I'm Rosie Guerin. And we work at Wirecutter, the product recommendation site from the New York Times.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Each week we bring you expert advice from Our newsroom of 140 journalists who review everyday products that will make your life better.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

This episode of the Wirecutter show is called Tormented by Our Printers.

[Rosie Guerin]

Christine, Rosie, Kyra. Hey, can I tell you how I spent my evening last night?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Please do.

[Rosie Guerin]

It started when my wife texted me asking me to fill out some forms for the twins for a doctor appointment. Fine, no problem. But then she told me I had two print them.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Boo.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Oh, yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

And that's when my tantrum began. Because I hate my printer.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Why?

[Rosie Guerin]

Printers are the worst. Listen, they're large, they're clunky. They have a specific power cord that, if lost, is a pain, sometimes impossible to replace if they're wireless enabled. Good luck connecting to it. Why do I have to look up on Google or worse, YouTube, how to connect the printer to the printer specific app in order to. This is 2025. Why? Why do I have to be holding the up down color reset button until the light blinks eight times in order to reset my printer only to discover there's a jam in the back? There's no jam. There's never a jam. There's never a jam in the back. I gave up an hour into trying to set it up and opted instead to print at the library with coins. I found quarters to give to the people at the library so I didn't have to use this printer. Don't get me started on ink. Inflation is high. Am I really meant to set money aside for toner or ink? Get out of here.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Oh, Rosie, I thought this story was going in a really different direction. I thought you. I was seeing the scene in Office Space when they're all beating up the the printer and just like dissembling it in the.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'd be lying if I haven't had fantasies about dropping this thing off our balcony.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Well, you know, I actually, you're not totally alone because we've written about this before at Wirecutter. We wrote a piece about how all printers suck.

[Rosie Guerin]

They do.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'll tell you that. I used an inkjet for many, many years and I was definitely in your camp. It was expensive, very spotty in how well it worked. And then I switched over to a real cheap laser printer from Brother, which is actually like a precursor. The model's a precursor to our current pick. And you know what? I'm pretty happy with it and I feel like I've got the right expectations for it and it works. Most of the time I'm green with.

[Rosie Guerin]

Envy for the piece I can see you are in, just sort of mentally, emotionally. I'm tormented by my printer and I can't stop thinking about why in this modern, technologically advanced society in which we live, an at home printer has to be this antiquated. Why? And even if I did think about buying a new, better one, printers aren't cheap.

[Kyra Blackwell]

No, they're not. That's why I don't have one. I mean, there's always, you have a friend who has a printer who hates their printer. I would just say, you know, walk to the closest FedEx library. I don't know about the coin thing, but somebody else can print something for you.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I mean, I get why you want to have a printer at home, though. I want a printer at home because my kids sometimes need to print stuff for school. I like to print out my writing. But you know, buying a printer can be really confusing. There's a lot of choice, which is.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Why we're bringing on the perfect person to ask all of these questions to. It's Ben Keough. Ben is our home office and cameras editor who has reviewed printers for Wirecutter for more than six years. And he spent more than a decade covering cameras, printers and office equipment for Wirecutter. Reviewed USA TODAY and more.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So, Rosie, Ben is going to be your printer therapist. I think he's going to walk you through all of the options and help you figure out how to solve this problem.

[Rosie Guerin]

This is the greatest gift either of you has ever gotten from me.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk with Ben about the difference between inkjet and laser printers and how to decide which type of printer is right for you. We'll be right back.

[Ben Keough]

Foreign.

[Lori Leibovich]

Hi, this is LORI leibovich, Editor of well at the New York Times There's a lot of misinformation in the health and wellness space. But at the New York Times, no matter what the topic, we apply the same journalistic standards to everything we write about, whether it's the gut microbiome or how to get a good night's sleep, even if we're talking about something like, is it bad for me to drink coffee on an empty stomach? Everything that our readers get when they dig into a well article has been vetted. Our reporters are consulting experts, calling dozens of people, doing the research. It can go on for months so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health. We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us. If you already subscribe, thank you. If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com subscribe.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Welcome back to the Wirecutter Show. With us now is Ben Keough, who is our editor covering everything from cameras to home office supplies.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Welcome to THE Wirecutter Show.

[Ben Keough]

Hey, I'm glad to be here.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

It's great to have you, Ben. One of our writers, Liam McCabe, years ago he wrote this piece about how all printers suck. Rosie here also thinks that all printers suck, but she is kind of in a printer funk, admittedly. So I want to know, do you think that all printers suck?

[Ben Keough]

Yes, but they've gotten better. Liam's piece is still mostly accurate. There are a couple places where printers have generally gotten better. One of them is connectivity. But the fundamental issues that he describes are still true.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

What are those?

[Ben Keough]

The main thing is that printers are made cheaply because if they cost what they should cost, with the technology that is involved, it would cost more than people want to spend. So we end up paying the companies back by buying lots and lots of ink and toner.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We're going to talk about that later.

[Ben Keough]

Basically, essentially, the manufacturers cut every corner they can cut with the build quality, with the weight savings, things like that, to get the cost down as much as possible. And the result is they break down a lot. They waste a lot of ink. They are just not great machines. The fundamental technology inside them is fantastic, but the overall product is not what it should be. And the reason is that it's really expensive to make these things that spray tiny, tiny dots of ink or little tiny particles of toner onto paper and do it in a really precise way. It's just really hard.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And there are so many different printers out there. But when you wade through all of the jargon, there are really two major types of printers, right. Inkjet and lasers. Can you explain the difference between these two?

[Ben Keough]

Sure. So a inkjet printer uses a nozzle to spray tiny sub millimeter dots of ink onto paper in a very precise pattern. And that is mind boggling tech, actually, if you think about how precise they have to be to print a picture of your dog or even a tiny serif font and make it look smooth and nice. But yeah, basically those systems literally just spray tiny dots of ink really fast in a very controlled pattern. When you go to laser printers, what they do is they point a laser that basically imitates the pattern of the image or text that you're trying to print onto a drum, which is electrostatically charged. And. And then toner is released that sticks to that via static electricity, basically. And paper is pressed over the drum and then heat and pressure cause the toner to stick to your paper.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

And just to clarify, the toner that you're talking about, that's kind of like a powder, right, that coats the drum?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, it's like a microscopic polymer dust. Yeah, there's not a lot to it. It's just really fine dust, basically.

[Kyra Blackwell]

It sounds incredibly complicated. As a machine, it is very sci fi.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ben. I have to say my great fear about doing this episode was that I would come to some sort of respect and appreciation of the technology of printers. I have an inkjet printer at home and I hate it because it very, very, very infrequently works the first time. And I'm not terribly impressed by the quality of what I' so my question is, why would anyone, why did I choose an inkjet over a laser printer?

[Ben Keough]

So inkjets do have certain advantages. The main advantage is they can do color a lot better than lasers can. Like lasers can print in color, but it's very matte, flat, dull color inkjets. The one thing they can do that lasers cannot do, really, is glossy photos. So if you want really nice family photos, you want snapshots, you want even doing like a kid's school report, the colors are definitely going to pop more from a inkjet than they would from a laser printer. But the downside is, well, I'm sure you know the downsides having.

[Rosie Guerin]

They sure do. But I'd love to hear what you think they are.

[Ben Keough]

The main downsides are that ink does not last quite as long as toner. It will start fading just over the course of time. It will not perform as well. It will also dry up inside the nozzles. And start clogging. And that's why printers run cleaning cycles, which sort of clean out the printheads and make it run well again. But that wastes a lot of ink also, which means you have to buy a lot of ink. The other downside is that ink costs more than toner and it's also very tightly controlled by the manufacturers. So while you can get third party ink, it will never work quite as well as first party ink. And nowadays they've locked down printers to the extent that you can sometimes not even use third party ink in your inkjet printer.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so Ben, I wanna play a little game. We're gonna do a decision tree. Can you walk us through your process? For somebody who knows that they wanna buy a printer, what's the first thing someone should ask themselves when they're just trying to decide what type of printer to get?

[Ben Keough]

I think the first thing to ask is, do you need a printer at all? But if you get past that, and you're sure you do, the question would be, how often do you print? If you print infrequently and especially if you print only text, I would say a print only black and white laser printer is the best option for most people.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, so what is our recommendation for that?

[Ben Keough]

So currently it is the Brother HL2460DW, which is a basic print only black and white laser printer that costs around $150, $160. It can do duplex printing, so it can print front and back. And that's basically it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

That is basically what I have at home, that I have reached the end of the decision tree. I reached it a while ago. But if you need your printer to do more than just print black and white, let's say, you know, you want color or you want some other kind of functionality, what's the next thing you should consider?

[Ben Keough]

Well, there are two options then. You probably want a multifunction printer, which means it has a scanner, a fax machine, might even have a document feeder so you can feed in like 10 pages at a time to scan. These come in both laser and inkjet. Inkjet has the advantage of once again being able to do glossy photos. Laser has the advantage of being faster, but the laser ones tend to cost more, Especially when you get into color laser printers.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ben, in 2025, what are we faxing?

[Ben Keough]

Good question. Most people are not. But some things like medical documents, certain legal documents have to be faxed. And this is actually still a thing, which is kind of crazy, but it is true. Most people at home are not doing this, but small businesses especially do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

For most people at home, you want to decide do you want glossy photos or do you just need to print documents, maybe in color, maybe a little scanning. And for that you decide between an inkjet and a laser printer.

[Ben Keough]

Correct. But I think most people tend to go for inkjets just because they tend to be about half the price for a comparable printer. But the downside of course is you spend more on ink than you do.

[Kyra Blackwell]

On toner and you have to care for the machine, which we will get into a little bit later.

[Ben Keough]

Right.

[Rosie Guerin]

So to that end, why would you pay more for a printer when you could get something relatively cheap?

[Ben Keough]

It comes down to what you do with it. So if you print a lot, if you have a small business and you print all day every day, you would definitely pay more for a nicer laser printer. And if you print from home, you maybe have a self employed business, for instance, and you have to print frequently but not all the time. A inkjet all in one that you can do stuff for your kids on. Also photos, family stuff that might make a little more sense. I would personally lean laser in most cases, but I understand the price aversion some people have.

[Rosie Guerin]

And then what about photos? So photos because you're a photographer?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, I am. It's an awkward situation because a all in one inkjet can print pretty nice photos, but it will not print as nice photos or be as versatile as a dedicated photo printer, which do exist. Also, they're much more expensive, but they can print larger photos, they can print with better inks, they're more single minded. So I'd say for the people who want to print the occasional snapshot to put on the fridge, the all in one inkjet is a good choice. For the dedicated hobbyist photographer or a semi pro photographer, a desktop dedicated photo printer is a much better choice.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And that would be way more expensive, right? Like closer to the $900 range?

[Ben Keough]

Typically, yes. Especially when you get into wide format printers, which is like the one that I'm long term testing right now, the Canon Pro Image Graph Pro 1000, which costs I think around $1,000.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Woo. Yeah.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Oh my gosh.

[Ben Keough]

And a set of inks costs like $600.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Woo.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You could do a lot of online printing for that.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You're printing gold at that point.

[Rosie Guerin]

So many. I could buy so many scratch tickets with that money.

[Ben Keough]

And here's the crazy thing, that printer has a dedicated tank for waste ink and it weighs a lot when you pull it out of there like you are literally wasting. I can't put a percentage on it, but a decent chunk of your ink, which you pay $600 for, that is outrageous.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah. You probably need to be a pretty serious hobbyist to invest in that, right?

[Ben Keough]

Yes.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Wow. Wow. Okay, so what I'm hearing here is if you really decide that you actually do need a printer, you can probably just keep it simple and just go with a basic laser. But if you want to get something a little bit more complicated, you need scanning, maybe some glossy photos, then you should maybe consider an all in one. And if you are a hobbyist, like a photographer, then maybe even consider getting a dedicated photo printer. Is that right?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah. But just bear in mind that your photo printer cannot be used to print documents or anything like that. It's strictly photos. So that is a very specific choice.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Got it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Ben. I feel like 95% of people could just get a standard, simple black and white laser and they probably will be.

[Rosie Guerin]

Happy and they would find something else to complain about in life.

[Ben Keough]

That is correct, I think. Yes. If you don't need photos, set low.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Expectations and, you know, just. Just go with it. All right, so after the break, we're going to get into the dirty details around saving money using third party inks and toners. We're also going to throw a curveball in. You mentioned earlier that maybe you should consider whether you even need a printer. And we're going to kind of dive into that. We'll be right back.

[Ben Keough]

Foreign.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Welcome back to the Wirecutter Show. This episode is all about printers, why some people hate them, how to decide what you need and how much to spend on one. Now we're going to dig into what I consider the grimy underbelly of printers. How some companies lock you into their expensive operating costs and how you can save money on ink and toner.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, Ben, I have owned both an inkjet and a laser printer, and I will tell you that I chose my laser after having this inkjet for a long time. And I had been sort of locked into this expensive cycle of buying the inks, and I was getting tired of it. It was just awful. What are the ongoing costs of this printer? Whether you've bought an inkjet or a laser, let's call it like annual costs. Is there a way to figure that out if you're trying to purchase something?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah. So in our guides, for instance, we often list the cost per page for each printer, and it can range from as little as 2 cents a page for a black and white laser printer to upwards of 20 cents a page for a color inkjet printer. And the way you do that is pretty easy because the ink and toner makers put a estimated number of pages on each product, and you can divide the cost by the number of pages and you end up with how much it costs per page. And that is an estimate. Obviously, sometimes you get more, sometimes you get less, but it's a good way to, like, gauge what the ongoing cost is going to be.

[Rosie Guerin]

I like this idea, Christine, of you having, like, serious conversations with your daughters. Of like, all right, you wrote this essay. This is going to cost 20 cents a page to print. Are you confident?

[Christine Cyrclassette]

You know how thrifty I am. You know, I'm not beyond that, really.

[Rosie Guerin]

No more edits. Okay. Um, Ben, if I'm trying to save money on my next ink refill, because when I go to Target to buy replacements for my inkjet, I'm already so grouchy walking in and I get to the aisle and it's expensive. They can be upwards of 30 bucks. I've heard about these knockoff ink cartridges, but I've been hesitant to buy them because I don't know if my printer will accept them. Then I have to deal with a return. What if it's like a car? And I try to put. Oh, actually, do you know what's funny? I put for a long period of time the wrong level. Ed sure did. Of gas in my car. And then I was driving on the highway in Massachusetts and the car just basically stopped and the engine was so screwed up because I had been putting unwittingly the wrong grade of gasoline in it.

[Kyra Blackwell]

So rosy.

[Rosie Guerin]

I know it's not a story that reflects well on me.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I did that once too, to bring it back to printers.

[Rosie Guerin]

I just, I. So I'm wondering if the same is true for these kind of knockoff ink cartridges. If you put in the. The wrong one, is it going to mess up my printer even further?

[Ben Keough]

So my experience has been that it will not mess up your printer, but it will not necessarily print to the same quality as your printer would with the first party ink. We actually did a third party ink test back in, I want to say, like 2018, back when Costco was selling third party ink, which they no longer do. And we found that overall they worked pretty well when the printer allowed them, but they were never quite as vibrant, never quite as smooth as the first party ink. Toner is sort of interesting because toner is literally just black or colored dust. It's harder for printer manufacturers to, like, have. Have a monopoly on that because the quality doesn't vary quite as much. So I use knockoff toner in my brother printer and it can last quite a long time and it's great.

[Kyra Blackwell]

How would you know if your machine definitely won't take that? You put it in and it won't print?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, I mean that's a surefire way to tell. You can also check on the third party toner like sale page on Amazon or whatever page you're on. It'll probably list which printers it is compatible with. That is not a surefire guarantee. The manufacturers of the knockoff ink are sometimes a little optimistic, but often it's a pretty good indicator. If you have an HP printer, it gets really complicated because they are really draconian about locking down ink.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I totally got rid of my HP inkjet because of that. They have like a system. What is it called? It's like HP Plus. There's like these proprietary ink programs that HP has, right?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, it's a little complicated. They have two programs. One is called hp which gives you added security supposedly and longer warranty and things like that. The other one is called Instant Inc. And that is a ink subscription service. So if you sign up to that they send you ink whenever the printer says that it's low. Basically the problem is that the software pressures you into signing up for HP and instant ink when you start it up. And what they tell you in the fine print is that if you sign up for HP plus, your inkjet printer is permanently locked into using first party ink. And if you try to use third party ink, it simply won't work.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Wow, that is so annoying. So okay, Ben, you and I are on team third party toner and I'm wondering if you've had the same experience that I have, which is sometimes when I print a page it can get a little streaky. It doesn't look quite as good as the brother toner that I had originally. So if, if you're going to go with a third party toner or ink, should you just have lower expectations? It's just not gonna be as high quality of a print, I think.

[Ben Keough]

Especially with ink. Yes. With toner I have not run into that personally and I think if you're having streaking issues, that's probably more of a drum issue than a toner issue. That is a replaceable part. It is a little expensive, but it only happens, I'd say once every three to five toner cartridges.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Okay, well, I'll look into that.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ben, does ink really expire? I sometimes get a prompt on my printer that says the ink has expired. And I feel as if that's a scam. But is it real? Is it a tactic to get you to pay more?

[Ben Keough]

More often it's a scam in the same sense that expiration dates on canned food are a scam. Like, most often, if you eat canned food past the expiration date, it's not gonna taste bad, but it may not taste good. It's like peak freshness, right? So ink is like that. Ink will gradually degrade over time, especially once you've started using it. Dust, heat, you know, light will cause it to slowly break down. So, yes, it does expire. Will it still work? Yes, probably, but maybe not as well as it did when it was fresh.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

What about toner? I sometimes get a prompt that says, like, the toner needs to be replaced.

[Ben Keough]

So toner, as far as I understand, does not expire. Toner cartridges will often tell you they are empty when they are not. For instance, I recently printed on a brother first party toner cartridge for over four years and reset it twice. So there's a hack you can do with Brother printer toner cartridges where the printer will tell you the toner is empty and you can go into a submenu and literally just reset it and it'll keep on printing.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Ooh.

[Ben Keough]

Um, I can't remember the exact sequence right now, but if you look it up on the Internet, it's definitely out there.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, I've. It's a hot tip. I've. I've actually spent a lot of time on YouTube looking at brother printer hacks, and it's a whole rabbit hole. You can go down, up, up, down.

[Rosie Guerin]

Down, left, right, left, right. Abab.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Ben, we've already established that I'm super thrifty, but I also bought my printer refurbished on ebay. Is that since we're, you know, talking about how to save money on printing, would you recommend buying a refurb?

[Ben Keough]

I think it's a good idea, especially if you buy it first. Party Refurb. If you get it from Brother directly. For instance, they sell refurbished printers directly on their site. If you get it through ebay, just be sure you're buying it from a reputable seller. You want to buy it from a major seller.

[Kyra Blackwell]

What's the difference between refurb and used?

[Ben Keough]

Used is just someone bought it and got tired of it and is selling it. And refurb is it actually went back to the manufacturer or a trusted third party repair shop, basically, and it's been brought back to factory specs. And it's good to go. Typically, a refurbished printer also comes with some kind of warranty. It's not necessarily the same as the factory warranty, but it might be six months, you might get something. So if it breaks down, you have.

[Kyra Blackwell]

A backstop that's so. Wow. I've been buying all my electronics wrong off of ebay.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, I know. I mean, you can do this for. You can do this for a lot of small appliances. That's how I got my Vitamix from Vitamix. I mean, you can. This is always worth a look if you're willing to get something used. But that's refurbished.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Okay, another hot tip.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yes.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Well, Ben, I had a question. I don't know if you've seen these, but they're all over my Instagram. They're called portable inkless printers. They kind of look like a little futuristic bar that'll just, like, zap out something on a page. Have you seen those? Do they work? And if so, how?

[Ben Keough]

Yes, I've seen them. We haven't tested them yet. These are mostly thermal printers, which is similar to, like, if you've seen, like, a label printer for UPS or whatever, they print really fast. They don't take ink. They don't break down quite as much as inkjets, lasers, more complicated printers. The downside is they print in pretty low quality. The prints are susceptible to heat and will fade really fast. So it's not good for anything. Where you need to keep a document long term. If you've seen a UPS label that has been left out in the sun, that's what your prints are going to look like in like a year or so, basically.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And they require a special paper, right?

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, it's a special paper that doesn't quite feel like regular printer paper. It feels kind of slick. So they're good for some things you can use them for, like, stickers and things like that. For the sort of everyday printing that most people do, I would not recommend it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

All right, Ben, we're going to get to the real counter argument of this episode. If people are listening and they are just thinking, a printer at home, this sounds like too much trouble. It's going to be too expensive. Do you feel like there are good options if somebody doesn't want to get a printer at home?

[Ben Keough]

I would say for most people who live in a metropolitan area, even if it's not a city, just like a suburban area, if you have access to, like, a library, if you work in an office, you can print a lot of stuff for free or Very cheap without owning a printer. You can even go to a FedEx Kinkos and print there for relatively cheaply. I think a lot of people think they need a printer when they really can get by on that kind of printing. But it is a pain when you have to go to the library to like print something. So I totally understand it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Also, what about other things that people might think they need a printer for, like scanning or printing photos?

[Ben Keough]

So we have a guide to scanning apps for your phone which are these days extremely good. If you do it right and take your time, you can get scans from your phone that look just as good as anything from it. All in one printer, sometimes better. Just because all in one printers tend to pull pages through the document feeder a little bit sideways, they can not look great sometimes. I think we recommend Adobe Scan which is great and it's free. It will take really beautiful scans of documents. For glossy photos, if you don't want to have a all in one inkjet, you can send your photos out to a photo lab. We recommend one called Nations Photo Lab and they will print your glossy photos. Probably better than a home printer could for quite a bit cheaper frankly, especially if you print quite a lot of photos at one time.

[Kyra Blackwell]

And we also by the way have a guide to photo printing on the website if you want to check that out. No need to take notes here.

[Rosie Guerin]

All right, let's do a quick lightning round. I'm going to ask you if I need a printer for the following tasks, Ben, and if so, what kind you would recommend. Ready? Cool. Okay. I want to return a pair of shoes. They don't fit. I need to print the label.

[Ben Keough]

So lots of returns nowadays come with a QR code that you can take straight to a FedEx store, UPS Store, to a Whole Foods even and drop off without a label, which is great. Or you can take it there and they will print the label for you. If you needed to print it at home, I would say a black and white laser printer is the best option.

[Rosie Guerin]

Okay, but how about I need to print a photo for my kids school project.

[Ben Keough]

Most school projects do not require glossy photos. And I would say if you have a color laser printer, that's great. If you don't take it to FedEx.

[Rosie Guerin]

I want paper copies of bills I paid even though it's 2025. I insist.

[Ben Keough]

Black and white laser printer.

[Rosie Guerin]

How about I need to just occasionally print important documents like passport application, medical doc, same thing.

[Ben Keough]

Black and white laser printer.

[Rosie Guerin]

I'm a budding photographer. I wish. And I want to print My exceptional work.

[Ben Keough]

Either send it to our photo lab pic or invest in a dedicated photo printer. Even though it's quite expensive, printing is a hobby in itself. That is quite enjoyable if you can afford it.

[Rosie Guerin]

What if I find out I'm a wunderkin? I think I'm too old to be a wonderkin.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Never too late. Rosie, this could be your time.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Before we wrap, we usually ask our guests one final question. What's the last thing you've bought that you really loved?

[Ben Keough]

So, as I mentioned, as you mentioned, I'm a photographer. My most recent purchase is actually a item that was made before I was born. It is the Nikon F3, which is their third pro camera, basically. But it's a film camera from 1980. I got it in beautiful shape with a beautiful 50 millimeter 1.2 lens for $250, which is probably $500 below market at the bare minimum. So I'm pretty happy about that.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We love a good deal after my own heart. This is amazing. I also know that you have a deep knowledge of how to buy a used camera gear and that might be an episode.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Well, I want to know what kind of photography you do now.

[Ben Keough]

I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where we have beautiful landscapes. So I spend a lot of time doing that. Take a lot of photos of my dog because she's the best. Oh, I kind of like it all.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You do it all. I love it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Love it.

[Rosie Guerin]

Ben, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate all your insights.

[Ben Keough]

Yeah, I was glad to be here, guys.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

So, Rosie, we've, we've worked through all of the printer questions, all the printer answers. How you feeling?

[Rosie Guerin]

We're coming up on time. I feel a couple of ways I am shocked to say I have some real brand new respect for the technology involved in creating these machines. Laser printer and inkjet. I'm still very, very interested in throwing my inkjet off of the balcony, which.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

We should totally do a YouTube. And that made us social YouTube.

[Rosie Guerin]

Honestly, my main takeaway is I probably should get a laser printer. When I'm really ready to get serious about having something in my home, I can pick one up for 160 bucks. And I actually think for the types of things that I'm doing at home, it's going to be the easiest one to get and maintain.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah, I think that's, you know, my takeaway is that I'm right. I did the. I made the right choice. Yeah. I would also say, like, I've had a good experience with refurb, so if you're looking for something a little less expensive, make sure and look for a refurb that is from brother. Ideally.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, I really don't have a dog in this fight and I'm so happy for myself about that. But I will say it was surprising for me to hear that if you don't use your inkjet enough, then the ink will dry. Maybe that's common sense. But what? What? Why? So use your printer enough to make sure that the ink doesn't dry.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Yeah.

[Rosie Guerin]

Love it. That's a wrap. If you want to find out more about wire cutters coverage or if you want to check out the products we recommended today, anything Ben recommended, please go to nytimes.com wirecutter or you can find a link in the show notes. That's it for us until next week.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Here's what's coming up next week on the Wirecutter Show. And you know what? I think the most powerful thing to do is? If you're the akimbo loader, just let.

[Rosie Guerin]

The other person do it.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Make sure you're following the show on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss it. The Wirecutter show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Kiel. Editing by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Matty Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba? Itup and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's deputy publisher and interim general manager is Cliff Levy. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor in chief.

[Kyra Blackwell]

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

I'm Christine Cyr Clisette.

[Rosie Guerin]

And I'm Rosie Guerin.

[Christine Cyrclassette]

Thanks for listening.

[Kyra Blackwell]

You know, we love to read.

[Rosie Guerin]

We do love to read.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Yeah, we like to read.

[Rosie Guerin]

We just like to read.

[Kyra Blackwell]

Sometimes it's questionable if I can read, but.