The Free Press Investigates: The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling

Episode 7: “What If You’re Wrong?”
Original Air Date: March 28, 2023
Host: Megan Phelps-Roper
Featured Guest: J.K. Rowling
Special Guest: Stacy Schiff (Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, author of The Witches: Salem, 1692)

Episode Overview

This episode serves as the reflective conclusion to the "Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling" series, grappling with the central question: What if you’re wrong? Host Megan Phelps-Roper returns to Scotland for a final, open conversation with J.K. Rowling about the cost of standing by one's beliefs, the chasm between intention and public perception, and the complexities of discernment, doubt, and righteousness—especially in the polarized debates around gender, identity, and women’s rights. Insights into historical witch trials, literary parallels, and self-interrogation round out the episode.

1. The Historical Frame: Witch Hunts Past and Present

Edinburgh’s “Witches' Well” and Salem Witch Trials

[01:11–06:52]

• The show opens at the Witches' Well in Edinburgh, commemorating those executed as witches in the winter of 1591.
• Tour guide explains brutal punishments; over 4,000 accused, most unnamed in records.
• Host Reflection: Witch trials, across time, create no-win situations for the accused. The accusation itself often assures condemnation.

Parallel to Social Media and Modern “Witch Hunts”

Stacy Schiff interview [04:05–10:41]

• Schiff draws parallels between oral culture of the past and today’s social media: “The ability to slander someone, to just really decimate someone's reputation very easily was something that was a constant between 1692 and the world in which we were then living.” [04:31]
• Salem’s Puritans seen not as ignorant mobs, but as highly literate, rule-bound communities, struggling sincerely (if tragically) for justice and safety.
• Schiff warns, “You can take on the characteristics of the thing that you abhor. You become the thing that you most fear.” [09:41]

2. J.K. Rowling on Public Condemnation, Pain, and Motivation

On the “Abyss” Between Herself and Her Critics

[13:03–14:30]

• Rowling describes the vast gulf between her intentions and her critics’ perceptions:

  “I've been told, I wish for the genocide of trans people... that's where we become... sometimes you feel a little despair.” [13:11]

How It Feels to Be "Problematic"

[14:30–15:50]

• Rowling discusses surviving the backlash—evoking admired writers who stood by their beliefs:

  “I never wanted to be famous... If you're very invested in that... this is going to destroy you.” [14:30]

On the Dangers of the “Movement” and Women’s Rights

[19:39–22:32]

• Rowling makes her central case:

  “Women are the only group... being asked to embrace members of their oppressor class unquestioningly, with no caveat… This movement has argued... that a man may have had no surgery whatsoever, but if he feels himself to be a woman, the door of every woman's bathroom… should be open to him. I say no. ...We are in a cultural moment where that individual's hurt is prioritized over ... women...” [19:39]

3. Key Critiques: Accusations of Bigotry and “Giving Fuel to the Right”

Contrapoints & The “Indirect Bigotry” Debate

[15:50–17:35, 17:35–18:37]

• Host relays Natalie Wynn’s (Contrapoints) distinction between direct and indirect bigotry.
• Rowling objects:

  “If you're saying indirect bigotry is standing up for women's rights, then you know what? Guilty as charged. ...Asking questions... is not being an indirect bigot.” [16:47]

• She acknowledges the complexity of motives regarding protecting children but insists her position is often mischaracterized.

Criticism: “Fueling the Right”

[24:20–27:31]

• Addressing the accusation that her comments empower the political right, Rowling retorts:

  “I think the left is making a tremendous mistake in espousing this kind of... witch-hunting behavior, because there will be people who will just feel, when they've been shamed and abused… ‘Where are they going to go?’ …I worry very deeply...” [24:25]

• Notes a profound shift—sees the left as increasingly judgmental and puritanical, and fears young men being pushed toward “alt-right” spaces.

4. Medicalization, Youth, and Evidence

On Fantasy versus Real-World Risks

[27:31–29:25]

• Critics say Rowling’s books portray young people making life-changing decisions; she distinguishes between fantasy and real-world medical transition:

  “The point of fantasy is that we are allowed to explore in imagination... By contrast, we are dealing with the real world here. We're dealing with children, in my view, being persuaded that... is lifelong medicalization. That is real world harm.” [28:04]

Evidence and the Medical Debate

[29:25–32:14]

• Rowling asserts, “I haven’t yet found a study that hasn’t found that the majority of young people... experiencing gender dysphoria will grow out of it.” [29:59]
• Warns: “I genuinely think we are watching one of the worst medical scandals in a century... many people trying to raise red flags have been intimidated and silenced...” [29:59]
• She challenges proponents: “What if you are wrong? If I’m wrong, honestly, hallelujah. ...But if you are wrong, you have cheered on, you have created a climate...”

5. On Language and Institutional Trust

Language Creep and Accurate Data

[35:21–37:44]

• Rowling worries about institutional shifts in language (“birthing people,” “cervix havers,” AP’s “is a woman”):

  “We are using language to make accurate definition of sex difference unspeakable... When I read news stories, ‘woman convicted of exposing her penis on the street’... There is now a journalistic convention... I see that as political language. ...I don't believe you can accurately analyze sexual violence or violence when committed by males [without accurate sexed language].” [36:00]

Losing Faith in Institutions

[34:05–35:21]

• Rowling discusses a loss of trust in publishing and educational institutions, seeing a dogmatic suppression of debate:

  “If we cannot look to those institutions to protect those very precious things, we are in trouble.” [35:20]

6. Discernment, Doubt, and Self-Interrogation

"Are You Umbridge or Hermione?"

[41:50–45:28]

• Host explores discernment through a Harry Potter lens: are you the plucky Hermione or the authoritarian Umbridge?
• Rowling:

  “If you're having a lot of fun... getting a huge sense of self-satisfaction... you maybe want to stop and think...” [42:54] “None of this has given me pleasure... It has given me anxiety... Has made me at times feel vulnerable... I still don't regret standing up, but... It certainly hasn't given me pleasure on any level.” [43:12]

Megan’s List of Self-Reflection Questions

[45:32–48:36]

• Are you capable of real doubt about your beliefs?
• Can you articulate evidence that could change your view?
• Can you summarize your opponents’ views fairly?
• Are you attacking ideas or people?
• Would you destroy relationships over small disagreements?
• Would you use extraordinary means (force, violence, ostracizing) against opponents?

Rowling endorses these filters, reflecting, “That's key. …It's when we are most certain… that’s when we should most question ourselves.” [46:43]

7. Grace, Humanity, and the Cost of Speaking Out

On Why Rowling Participated in This Interview

[54:01–54:58]

• “I've been willing to talk to you specifically because you wrote me that incredible letter, and because I think I've had 100 people at least say, explain yourself, explain yourself. But I felt that you and I could have a conversation that interested me.” [54:10]
• “Some will always hate me for what I've said. I accept that. I know I won't ever regret having stood up on this issue, ever. ...There are more important things in this world than being popular. ...It means it's more important to me to do the right thing. ” [54:45]

Closing Reflection

• Host: “Every crowd, every mob is made up of individuals. …It’s reaching the individuals… that will change things for the best if we’re to have any hope.” [53:38]

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• Stacy Schiff (On social media and witch hunts):
  “The ability to slander someone, to just really decimate someone's reputation very easily was something that was a constant between 1692 and the world in which we were then living.” [04:31]

• J.K. Rowling (On standing up):
  “I never wanted to be famous... If you're very invested in that... this is going to destroy you.” [14:30]

• J.K. Rowling (On accusations):
  “If you're saying indirect bigotry is standing up for women's rights, then you know what? Guilty as charged.” [16:47]

• J.K. Rowling (On priorities):
  “Women are the only group... being asked to embrace members of their oppressor class unquestioningly, with no caveat.” [19:39]

• J.K. Rowling (On language):
  “We are using language to make accurate definition of sex difference unspeakable.” [36:00]

• J.K. Rowling (On regret):
  “I know I won’t ever regret having stood up on this issue, ever. You know, that’s the price you pay if you want to be universally and eternally beloved.” [54:45]

Key Timestamps (HH:MM)

• 01:11–06:52: Witch trial history and parallels to the present with Stacy Schiff
• 13:03–15:50: Rowling on public perception and being “problematic”
• 16:47–17:27: Direct/indirect bigotry critique and Rowling’s rebuttal
• 19:39–22:32: Women’s rights and “oppressor class” argument
• 24:25–27:31: On accusations of fueling right-wing backlash
• 29:59–32:14: Evidence and medicalization of gender dysphoria in youth
• 35:21–37:44: Institutional language and loss of trust
• 41:50–45:28: Discernment via Harry Potter and self-questioning
• 45:32–48:36: Megan’s discernment questions and Rowling’s reflections
• 54:10–55:58: Rowling on her motives for participating and reflections on public response

Conclusion

This closing episode serves as a meditation on moral certainty, the fallout of public stances, and the human capacity for error—even among the well-intentioned. Rowling and Phelps-Roper push listeners to examine their own convictions, the limits of empathy, and whether debate or dogma should guide public conversation on divisive issues. The program ends on a note of humility and resolve, asserting the importance of honest, doubt-filled dialogue over “witch hunting,” whatever the era.