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- [00:01]
A
Bitcoin is finally back above the key level of 112,000, leading many to wonder, does that mean an all time high is imminent? Price action is looking bullish even with a somewhat moderate CPI print today. We could talk that to death. Or we can just have a more fun conversation about treasury companies, the government regulation, all the nonsense that's happening in crypto with two of my favorite people, people, Iago and Josh Frank.
- [00:29]
B
Let's go, let's do, let's do.
- [00:46]
A
Morning everybody and welcome to the YouTube show. I've got Yago and Josh here today. Good morning, gentlemen.
- [00:56]
C
Good morning, good morning.
- [00:58]
A
Hope that you are both doing well. Should we talk about bitcoin price? Should we talk about treasury company? Let's talk about treasury companies. All right, the first big news we have here, I think Avalanche. I didn't even look at the price, but avalanche to raise 1 billion to create crypto stacking vehicles. The Avalanche foundation reportedly expects to raise up to 1 billion for treasury related ventures planning to sell millions of Avax at a discounted price. Josh, this is like right in your wheelhouse of things you might understand. So when I first read this, it was Avalanche is just going to have one of these treasury companies, but it seems that actually they're going to sell a bunch of tokens OTC directly from the foundation to invest in multiple treasury companies.
- [01:43]
B
I think I'm reading this live as we talk, so I have not spent too much time digging into this. It looks like there's going to be two separate treasury companies and those treasury companies are going to launch by buying discounted Avalanche from the foundation. So it looks like there's going to be two separate treasury companies that are being set up. I think one is led by Hivemind and then the other one is led by Dragonfly. Dragonfly is one of the largest, if not the largest investor in Avalanche already, which makes sense. Just like Multicoin and Jump did Solana. And so yeah, it looks like there's two separate treasury vehicles and they're doing discounted sales. I mean, it's very, very typical for, I mean, I wonder if there's a lock on these. Maybe there's not a lock because they're treasury vehicles. I don't think that was disclosed in the news or I haven't seen that yet. But these foundations are constantly doing locked treasury sales in order to raise capital. Right. Instead of going out and dumping the tokens on the market, they're going to go and they're going to try to align with investors to hold their token for one year, two years, three years or even more by offering a discount which, you know, historically on a lot of these deals can range from 30% on the low end to 70% on the high end. And so not sure how large this is, but I think. Yeah.
- [03:00]
A
What were the salon of discounts on the FTX sale? Do you remember? I mean, I know they had two three year lockups for like 50% something. I think they're about 50%.
- [03:09]
B
That would probably be, generally speaking, for anything that's like three years, the discount is, you know, upwards of 50% for any asset. It doesn't really matter what the asset is either way.
- [03:19]
A
I mean, I just happened to, because I wanted to see what the price of Avalanche was. As a result of this. I pulled up the chart and so, I mean it basically went from 25 bucks to 29 bucks on the move. Not bad. Like a 20, 20% move there obviously kind of through a key level, but we're going to see this across the board. Iago. Right. I mean, I know you keep asking friends about treasury companies and we're all trying to figure out what the hell's going on here. But to kind of Josh's point, any entity with a massive investment or bag of one of these tokens is highly incentivized to find some sort of vehicle to push those into and hopefully cattle like be a catalyst for price.
- [04:01]
C
Yeah, I think one of the. Look, this is, this is a, a play which works out well for pretty much all of the parties involved. Right. So Avalanche would like to have additional capital without seeing their tokens enter the market. Because if they enter the market, that's additional sell pressure by selling it into this corporate wrapper which effectively is expected never to sell or, you know, not, you know, has no plans to sell the tokens, then they can get capital without the, the tokens hitting the market. That's much better than what you'd usually be able to do on an OTC sale, because the OTC sale, maybe you get a lockup for six months or a year, but ultimately when that lockup happens, there's significant opportunity for FUD and worse, actual dumping. Okay, so that's one side of the story. The second side of the story is their investors, they get to kind of double dip, right? It's a hive mind or Dragonfly. They get to take a few points in a publicly traded company without having, you know, to put too much capital or as a bonus to the capital that they would be raising. And they basically are double dipping because the project they're investing in is getting more capital and is going to see like, you know, 24 to 29. And then for the investors, they come and they get to buy in at this discount and then potentially benefit from the, the MNAV premium. Now what we've seen is MNM premiums have been dropping, which is, you know, something I think everyone was anticipating as there's more competition. MicroStrategy, MetaPlanet have seen compression of their MNET. But what we've seen is two types of company. Their MNEV has dropped to sometimes negative. The, the two types of companies that we're seeing is companies that are buying BTC but have a large and failing operating business that they're still running or companies that instead of holding BTC are digital asset treasury companies for altcoins, which there's just less faith in. So how do you deal with this? How do you raise capital? Right. For a digital asset treasury company when people can't believe that the premium is going to be there? Well, you get a premium on the discount, right? So if you can buy at 50% discount, but the, and the discount in the public market is going to be only 10%, then you've got a 40% premium. So everyone gets to make money.
- [06:35]
A
Yeah, I mean, you, you mentioned Josh before. Obviously this isn't the only one. And these seem to be getting bigger, by the way. But we had the Solana one, which is galaxy jump and multicoin 1.65 million.
- [06:48]
B
Remember, about the size of a lot of these, a lot of these numbers. Jump, Multi Coin and Galaxy collectively probably had a lot more than $1.65 billion worth of Solana already. I think Dragonfly already had more than $500 million worth of avalanche on their balance sheet. And so a lot of the times, I mean, I'm sure there is not buying pressure in these transactions, but in some cases, a lot of these firms, the position that some of these firms have in these tokens is so large that they can't sell them. Right. Like you acquire so much. I mean, you know, I think it's, it's, you know, everyone knows how much money Multi Coin made off of their Solana position, or maybe not the exact dollar amount of money, but everyone knows it was this absolutely, you know, billions of dollars that they made in Solana. Right. They couldn't just go, turn around and sell all of that money on the open market. If they wanted to sell it, you know, what they would have to do is dividend to their investors in kind effectively. Right. And that's the thing that some of these funds have done when they get such a large position in a token, what they sometimes end up doing is the people that invest in the funds, instead of getting back cash, they end up getting the token dividended back to them in kind because the fund manager itself isn't able to actually sell the token. In some cases, the fund manager might actually take their performance fee and token as opposed to taking it in cash because of the situation of having a dividend in kind. So this enables these firms that maybe wouldn't want to go out and market, sell all of the token and push price down to be able to get liquidity and return capital to their investors. Because at the end of the day, a firm's ability to raise or a fund's ability to raise additional capital is directly correlated with their ability to return on their last tranche of invested capital. Right? And so at the end of the day, these guys are probably. I mean, Jump is different. Jump doesn't have any LPs. Jump is a prop trading firm, Right. Galaxy probably. I mean, I don't know if they're buying off balance sheet or they're buying out of a fund or whatever the vehicle is, but for a multi Coin or a Dragonfly or even a hive mind, I'm not sure if hive mind had a big existing Avalanche position, but it also enables you to, as an investor, return capital to your shareholders, show that you're able to generate a return as well. And when they're selling, they're selling the shares of the public company, they're not selling the tokens, they're not causing downward price pressure on Avalanche or Solana or whatever else the token is.
- [09:08]
A
I think it's such an important point that a. A lot of these announcements we see, not this one in particular, someone can say they're raising any amount of money. I can say I'm raising $100 billion for a Treasury company and have that in the press right now. Right? So a lot of these, we haven't actually seen the full raises realized, especially on the bitcoin side. And a lot of them.
- [09:28]
B
Scott, are you raising 100?
- [09:29]
A
I'm raising $100 billion for. For a. What was that coin? Josh and I, right before the show were seeing who had the dentist bags from last, and I found some. I literally don't even remember how they ended up in my wallet. I certainly don't remember buying them, but they're worth like 80 bucks.
- [09:44]
B
You know what we should do? We should launch a Treasury company to rebuy shitty 2017 ICOs. Like we should bring back Denta coin. There's all sorts of great, great 2017 stuff.
- [09:56]
A
Look at this wallet. I have something called banana token.
- [10:00]
B
I think I might have that too. I'm not sure what that is but.
- [10:03]
A
It sounds like wfair Quick Swap protocol. These are all things that maybe I had actually spent money on that are worth less than $25. So we need treasury companies.
- [10:12]
B
The best thing, the best thing is round tripping and airdrop. Like I got airdrops back in the day. I was like, oh my God, this thing is worth ten grand. I look at my wallet now there's like, there's like $4 worth of it left.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah, you should have probably maybe sold that. But so yes, you can say you're raising any amount. But most importantly is the point you made that there's so much confusion is that just because there's a huge number doesn't mean there's any buying.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah. And there is a lot of buying in a lot of cases. Right.
- [10:38]
A
I'm just saying that doesn't mean there is.
- [10:41]
B
Correct. Correct a lot of times. I mean I think it's, it would be cool if there were disclosures of 70% of this asset is being invested in kind. 30% of it is cash which is going to go out to buy additional tokens. But I don't think that level of disclosure exists in this market.
- [10:58]
A
Yeah, I'll go in your deep research on these things. I mean I'm sure you've spoken to some bitcoiners like what's the motivation here? You and I have talked about the whole like I'm giving up, fuck this, I'm rich. And bitcoin wasn't supposed to be this thing. So we don't need to go back into that one because I've gotten in a lot of trouble for that. But is there other reasons why you think that people are so excited about these treasury companies?
- [11:21]
C
Well, I mean, yes, there's premium harvesting. So even if you're making an in kind investment and the if, the ultimate token, right. What Wall street call a share, if, if those shares are going to be trading at a premium to net asset value, then you've automatically made money and you can actually rinse and repeat. Right. So if, if you, if you make a thousand BTC in kind contribution and it's trading at a 25 and sometimes it's, and it has appeared, you know, over the last months we've seen premiums as high as 24x. Right. Then you can sell the shares and use it to buy more bitcoin. You've made, you know, 20x30, sorry, not 20x20, 30 on your Bitcoin. That's, that's true bitcoin yield. So that, that's a big part of it. And another big part of it is in, in the situation where you're able to make an in kind investment if it's properly structured, the in kind investment is not a taxable event. And so for example, you can go, you can take your bitcoin, turn it into publicly traded equities and utilize that as collateral for all kinds of other things. You can borrow against that. And so when you have a little bit, little bit of capital, it starts making sense to think about how you're going to financially engineer it. And these are important tools in that respect.
- [12:55]
B
Yeah, and there are also a lot of funds. So, you know, every fund has a different setup. You know, a lot of venture funds don't have the ability to do what's called recycle capital. Right. So a lot of times when a venture fund goes out, they raise a ton of money to invest and you know, they'll raise, let's say $100 million and they have seven year, or they have maybe three years to deploy, but it's a seven year fund, which means at the end of seven years maybe there are some extensions, but they return the capital to their LPs. There are a lot of funds that are set up or are being set up that enable recycling of capital. And so a lot of funds now are also taking advantage of the fact that they can go in and with a 1, 2, 3 month trade, they can put 5 to 20 million dollars worth of capital to work in each of these dat deals and then go recycle them and rinse and repeat and do that over and over and over again, which is something that just not every fund has the structure to do, which I think people are excited about. The other thing to mention is there are a lot of folks that are on these raises that are also service providers that are structuring deals where they're like, okay, we'll invest in your dap, but we want you to trade with us. We want you to lend and borrow with us. We want you to use our asset management division, we want you to custody with us. And so there's, there are things going on behind the scenes on a lot of these deals.
- [14:04]
C
Joshua, to what extent are you guys at the Thai monitoring this activity? Like have you built out a dashboard for who the Most active investors on digital asset treasury companies are. Have you got.
- [14:16]
B
We have, we have data. We have data on who the most active investors are. We also publish a monthly fundraising brief that is totally free. You can, it's just a newsletter that anybody can subscribe to. If you just search for the Thai monthly fundraising brief, maybe it will show up on Google. I don't know how good our SEO is, but we share it on, on LinkedIn as well. So if you check out our LinkedIn, that data is all totally free. You can subscribe, no obligation, and you can look at all the fundraising data and who the big investors are. We're also starting to try to do a lot of work on calculating mnav, calculating the amount of assets that these treasury companies have. But it is very difficult and the data is largely inaccurate that's publicly available. The problem is if you're pulling data from filings, that data can be accurate. But oftentimes people are announcing things before they're reflected in public filings as well. So, you know, we can confidently pull data from public filings, but that data could be a month stale, it could be weeks stale, it could be a quarter stale. So it's a challenge because you have to look at a combination of. Sometimes these companies will announce these raises on Twitter, sometimes they'll announce it in their, in a press release, sometimes they'll announce it on a live stream. I mean, it's, it's, it's just, it's a little bit cuckoo in terms of, you know, making like, it's very difficult. And that's why we haven't published anything on it directly yet, because a lot of people that have published are getting destroyed because everyone's like, oh, well, they made this. It's a very difficult problem to solve.
- [15:38]
C
But these companies usually, right, like a big thing, a big thematic thing with these companies is they have dashboards, right? Go to their website and you can see a dashboard of their MNEV and their assets and price per share. Have you been finding those dashboards not to be useful or accurate?
- [15:55]
B
Well, you have to remember that there's activity in between. Like they're not necessarily upload, updating whatever they have right away when they make a change. Right. So, you know, for example, as an example, the BlackRock ETF website generally lags their purchases by about a day on the public website. And that's not a, that's not saying blackrock's doing anything wrong. They're being totally transparent. It just takes time to update data and stuff like that. And so the Challenge is there are hundreds of these things now. And so if you want to accurately track all of them, they're all just doing different things. Some of them might be doing a great job with dashboards, some of them might not be doing a great job with dashboards. Some of them might be announcing in filings, some might be announcing in press releases. Some are in Japan, some are in the uk, some are in Canada, some are in the US and so trying to really make sure you have an accurate sense of what's actually, which is also crazy that people are investing in buying things without knowing how many tokens they have at any given point in time as well.
- [16:53]
A
Yeah, it's like, it's really impossible to track, to your point. And we're going to start getting treasury companies in every corner of the planet. So, like, how are you going to track the news for a Treasury company in Argentina? Or like, I also saw that we had Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan both announcing strategic bitcoin reserves.
- [17:12]
B
Did you see that Belarus thing today too?
- [17:16]
A
Did I not see you just, I mean, the whole block.
- [17:20]
B
Belarus president urges banks to embrace cryptocurrency and tokenization to counter sanctions and strengthen the economy.
- [17:27]
A
I mean, as much as I giggle about that, this really is happening all around the world. And we remain singularly focused on what's happening in the United States. But it's not the only place on the planet. It's just, we get the biggest headlines. I mean, there's some big headlines today. SEC Chairman Paul Atkins says crypto's time has come. This was in a pretty big speech where he also addressed the fact that we would get agentic AI trading and markets. And that's a good thing. And the United States needs to lead on these things. I mean, this is in line with other things he said. We also have news that Republican Senator John Kennedy saying maybe we need to pump the brakes on this thing. And I don't think we're ready. So we don't even have consensus on market structure or any of the things that are coming. But I guess the point is, I mean, we don't have focused on all this US News, but stuff's happening everywhere all the time.
- [18:14]
B
Yeah, but I do think there is. I, I agree with that. But, you know, and no disrespect to Belarus and Kazakhstan and whatever the other country was that you mentioned, the US Economy is materially larger than. Okay, the US Economy is materially larger than a lot of these. I mean, the United States is, is.
- [18:32]
A
You know, Texas is bigger than any of them, actually. Probably Rhode island is probably bigger than any of them as an economy, to be quite honest.
- [18:39]
B
What'd you say?
- [18:40]
A
Sorry, Rhode island is probably bigger.
- [18:42]
B
Yeah, that's my point. Right. And so look, it's great. And obviously having a global, you know, having global adoption of crypto is, is, is great. And having more people interact with it and more people buy it. Every, every dollar of buying power is helpful. Right. But you know, the, you know, you know, New York decides to pass a law that makes it easier for people to, to buy tokens and get bit license and stuff. I mean that's going to have an outsized impact versus almost any country in the world doing anything. Anything. Right. I mean, I think if we saw news China starts to embrace crypto or other very, very large, you know, you know, developed countries that, that I think is, is that, that's really material. I mean, I don't know, this feels like, you know, you know, like, you know, I think what Bukele is doing in, in El Salvador is great, but he's not, he's not moving the price of bitcoin at this point.
- [19:28]
A
No, I, I, I agree with that. And I think that it didn't even move when he did it.
- [19:33]
B
Yeah, if we all remember, that was years ago. Right. And that was years ago.
- [19:37]
A
You know, it didn't even move when Bukele made that move. But I think still many people looking at all of this, buying all these potential catalysts and wondering how bitcoin is still just kind of trading at, you know, 112ish. I mean now we're probably 113. We were at 114 when we started. 113, 702, here we are. I mean, what is our next big catalyst? Do we need one? You know, how are you viewing the market? Iago coming into the fall, the four year cycle homers definitely think we have to be at like 500,000 by November or something. Right?
- [20:12]
C
Yeah. So one of the things that I said to you starting in March was that I was anticipating that we would see significant price increases as we were emerging from the summer. That's around about now. So far I'm wrong. So, so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. We've seen very, very significant value in. And you, you, you know, Scott, you've spoken about this on different occasions. Just in the last few weeks we've seen many, many billions of dollars worth of bitcoin sold into the market. And despite that, bitcoin seems to be maintaining a floor. Right. But what people want to See is not, you know, maintaining a, a higher low. People want to see higher highs. So are we going to see those higher highs? I'm not overly bullish on, on, on any sort of short term, near term catalysts in terms of, so like the macro market or the regulatory space. I don't think any of them are going to be. I'm going, anything that is significant enough is going to happen. We probably will see a drop in interest rates. It probably is going to signal higher prices across all kinds of assets and probably will mean the same for Bitcoin. But what we haven't seen is bitcoin sort of going on its own, ripping its own trajectory for multiple months. And in the near term, I see mostly a continual grind up.
- [22:00]
A
Yeah, the old, just slow climb instead of the parabolic 50% move in one day. Josh, you got something on your screen.
- [22:08]
B
I don't know. You said Bitcoin to 500K in November and it just reminded me of tweet. So I just figured I'd bring this classic back.
- [22:14]
A
Oh my God. How'd you find it?
- [22:17]
B
I just, I mean, I just. You just. If you search for McAfee eat my dick on Twitter, it's not that hard.
- [22:22]
A
I mean it's. I can I assume that everybody in the comments remembers this or like I.
- [22:27]
B
Don'T think everyone remembers this was a.
- [22:30]
A
For those who don't remember John McAfee and I mean you tell, you tell, you go ahead and tell the story.
- [22:34]
B
No, go for it please, Scott.
- [22:36]
A
I mean John McAfee, the very famous, you know, founder of McAfee Antivirus and you know, wild libertarian machine gun wielding, non tax paying, living on a yachting guy once said that he would eat his own dick if Bitcoin didn't make it to $1 million by the end of 2020. And this is on February 2, 2018. No dicks were eaten to my knowledge.
- [23:02]
B
I don't believe anything.
- [23:03]
A
John McAfee also, sadly is not alive. So, so not, you know, but there was. Do you remember the phase Yago? Maybe the craziest phase ever. And what, what year was it that year? Was that the time when he was like McAfee Coin of the week?
- [23:18]
B
That was. And then he, and then remember he tattooed sky coin on himself. He had like these random tokens and then he tattooed one on himself. There was, I mean, I remember, I mean that, you know, this was like, that was like probably July 17th through like March 18th where it was, if I had to guess the time frame where he was doing this but yeah, these things would blast like 200% immediately.
- [23:40]
A
And he was, I mean, he was doing like, it was all on there's on chain. It was like he and him and his team would buy it, he would tweet about it at his point of the week. They go way up, they'd dump it back down. And those were simpler days. I'll go. You know, we weren't talking to. We didn't have the, the president himself doing meme, but there's this, There's a.
- [23:58]
C
Theory that the reason that 2017 felt so easy, if, you know, people who are launching tokens felt like they were playing on easy mode, was because there weren't that many tokens. So I went and I looked at this and I, I did, I, I did an analysis of how many tokens were trading on the major exchanges in 2017. So, you know, we're talking about like.
- [24:23]
B
Oh, it's gotta be. I mean, it's got to be so little. Like, I mean, exchanges like Gemini had like three coins back then.
- [24:29]
C
Yeah, yeah. So there were, there were exchanges like Gemini and Coinbase that had relatively few tokens, but they wouldn't explain it. Right. Because the, the token, because they had so few tokens, they weren't the catalyst. Well, the catalyst was Poloniex, later was Binance.
- [24:51]
B
Don't forget there were others. Don't forget Bittrex. Bittrex was driving a lot of.
- [24:55]
A
Bittrex had a lot of coins. That's where I started trading.
- [24:58]
C
So I looked at it and actually the main exchan exchanges today, the main offshore exchanges today are trading the same or fewer tokens relative to, to back then. So, you know, if you look at.
- [25:13]
A
Like, is that just because they're all on Dexes, like, obviously, like every meme coin doesn't make its way to, you know, bitstamp.
- [25:22]
C
Yeah. So a lot. Look, back then, the activity was not on Dexs.
- [25:27]
A
Yeah, there was nothing.
- [25:28]
C
A lot more of the activities on Dexs. But the amount of activity on centralized exchanges today swamps what existed on CEXs and DEXs combined back then. And so it's a bit of a mystery why we're not seeing sort of, yes, there's like 200 billion billion tokens. But the reality is, if you look at htx, okx, binance up.
- [25:53]
B
But I think it might also be, and this is a gut total guess it might be something like a rising tide lifts all boats. And what I mean by that is, back in the day, you needed to buy ETH or bitcoin to participate in ICOs. And so somebody would launch an ICO, everyone would go out and buy ETH, and then they deposit ETH in kind into the ICO. And so I think it was because this person raised and people wanted to participate, so they bought eth, they participated. That pushed the value of everyone's ETH up. And so then they could use their ETH and they could bind to another ICO and another ICO and another ico.
- [26:23]
A
That's. I think that. I think I talk about this all the time. The only way you could buy altcoins when I started was you had to buy bitcoin first.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah.
- [26:31]
A
Now you can buy it on your credit card. So there's no like instant pump of anything just because you're participating in crypto anymore. And that's why now there's like 900,000 people with a million followers on X who are apparently huge crypto influencers that I've literally, literally never heard of and have literally never said the word bitcoin in any of their.
- [26:53]
B
I mean, it's the easiest way to tell who they are. Because if, if you just look at their comment section and you're just like, this isn't English, or no one would say this, then that's not real.
- [27:01]
A
I know, I'm just. Right, I'm getting that. But my point being is that there's a lot of people. Now, I would say the bulk of people who come to crypto don't know what bitcoin is or don't care or never buy it, or ETH for that matter, because they just came to buy some meme coin and be in the casino. Or they, you know, we had that with the NFTs, and then there was the Doge people. You know, I just think to your point, we've gotten farther away from the.
- [27:26]
B
So we did a bunch of research a few years ago on basically this fallacy around token price. And this was a few years ago, we need to update it. And it might not be true anymore, but basically we found that the lower price the token, the better it performed. So there's this kind of logical fallacy that people have where basically I think we found that the optimal price was like sub 5 or sub 10 cents for a token, because somebody's like, okay, if the token's 4 cents, if it goes to a dollar I 25x my money. Without having any sense of market cap or thinking about market cap or FTV or any of these metrics, I do think the market is becoming more sophisticated. But that doesn't mean everyone is becoming more sophisticated. And I think, I mean, it would be fun to rerun that. Rerun that. Those numbers.
- [28:12]
C
I read a paper recently about retail investors in Wall street, right. And so there's like tradfi stocks make their typical investment six minutes after hearing about the stock. Six minutes of investment in terms of educating yourself.
- [28:35]
A
Makes perfect sense though, right? Because first of all, you used to just have the natural time gap of get to your computer or call your broker, whichever those things are. Now that it's in real time on your phone, your friend tells you and you buy it, like giggling while they're sitting there.
- [28:48]
C
Yeah. So even if, if the market is becoming more sophisticated, you know, and, and, and if your comparator is sort of, you know, NASDAQ S&P 500, etc, there's still there.
- [29:01]
A
There.
- [29:01]
C
There's an endless supply of, of not so sophisticated activity forever.
- [29:10]
A
All right, guys, we're right here at the end. Any, any final thoughts here? I'm gonna let you guys go in a second. I have like one more, one or two more things I need to say before I go get on serious. But unless there's anything pressing, I just tell everybody to follow Josh and Yago.
- [29:26]
C
And you know, like, I think, you know, Scott, one of the things that you're, you know, I get the feeling is that you feel like this week the news is a bit boring. And if the news is a bit boring, what. What better buy signal is there than boring?
- [29:42]
A
Yeah, listen, that's because there's two kinds of capitulation. Price goes down and you finally give up or you get bored and you think it'll never go up and you give up. So those are both times to buy.
- [29:52]
B
Yeah, look, I think the other thing is, you know, I think everyone is now pricing in a 25 bip rate cut. Based off of the news and everything happening today, if we get a 50 bip rate cut, that could be very bullish. I'm not suggesting it's going to happen, but I think that the market is not pricing.
- [30:06]
A
That could happen. Could definitely happen. All right, guys, I'm gonna let you go stick around for one more second. Thank you, Yago. Thank you, Josh. See you guys very, very soon. Josh? Yeah, both of us. I. Both. I both. I actually owe both of you individual conversations.
- [30:20]
B
We'll catch up later. Scott, thanks very much.
- [30:24]
A
All right, guys, listen, before we go, obviously usually on Wednesday we talk about Aptos. We have them here today. Just want to highlight some big news that they had this week. Is that chainlink CCIP is officially live on Aptos, the high throughput L1 and chainlink scale member unlocking defi liquidity and advancing institutional adoption. I also saw Avery on the floors of Congress. Again. You guys know that we've had a very long relationship here with aptos and highly recommend that you check them out. And as a final note before we go, I wanted to let the guests go. Obviously, the chat today is dominated by politics and the events of yesterday. The assassination, we'll call it, of Charlie Kirk. And I want you to know that it's not insensitivity that we don't address it with the guests or bring it up right away. It's that this show has a very specific purpose and that is to be a release from things like that, to discuss markets, to have an optimistic view of the future, to talk about this technology that brings us all together. It's really an endless rabbit hole once we start talking about politics and obviously the level of violence in the United States. I would say, obviously I was extremely disheartened by the events of yesterday by the Ukrainian woman who was murdered on a train. But if you've been paying attention, these are things that have been happening in the United States for a very, very long time. And sadly, nothing that happened yesterday is new. I'm not saying that I don't believe things can change, but I was here for Sandy Hook. And when you saw the murder of innocent children in the United States and you see repeatedly, you very quickly lose the belief that anything is going to change because of these individual events. I, as you know, I'm very apolitical. We talk about politics constantly on this show in the lens of what this show is about, but they're not political views. And I'm not going to dig into the political side of what happened, only to say that the state of affairs in America, the division, I can see it in the chat beyond just in the world. And it's an extremely sad indictment of the current state of things and the current state of affairs. And I would urge that everybody save their bad takes for another day. Still don't even know what actually happened, right? Who did it, don't know why. And we are very quick to blame everyone for everything at all times. And I would just say that, you know, take a deep breath. It's another event that happens in the United States and this one happened to happen on tv, but this happens every single day all over the place. And I would hope that it could stop, but have very little belief that we're in a state with this much division and this much lack of clarity that that will happen anytime soon. So I did want to address that. It's obviously extremely sad, and sometimes it's not the right time to fight. It's not the right time to get political. It's not the right time to puke your biases out. Sometimes it's just time to sit back and reflect on the problems that we have and maybe one day how we can solve them. That's all I got for you guys today. Obviously, you know, go give your kids and your wife a hug if that. You know, this has deeply affected you. I understand that it has for many people. And otherwise. We will be back tomorrow for the Friday Five. Thank you all.
- [33:53]
B
That's dope. Let's do.