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- [00:01]
Scott Melker
Bitcoin is making a push to a hundred thousand dollars as we speak. 99, 400 or so. And Ethereum is actually outperforming it while altcoins seem to be waking up. All apparently because Trump is going to make a trade deal with the United Kingdom. But there's a lot more under the hood that's exciting happening in the market and that's actually being built and we got to perfect people to talk about it. We've got Yago and Scott Dystra from space and time. Guys, let's go. Let's do.
- [00:48]
Scott Dystra
Let's go.
- [00:48]
Scott Melker
What is up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, also known as the Wolf of all streets. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and go ahead and hit that, that like, button. Getting my camera adjusted here. Gonna go ahead and bring on Iago, who you guys see every Thursday. And Scott. Scott. It's been a while, man. How are you?
- [01:05]
Scott Dystra
Been way too long. Thanks for having me on.
- [01:07]
Scott Melker
Scott, you had much longer hair last time.
- [01:09]
Scott Dystra
Yeah, it was down on my shoulders. So that's what I remember at some.
- [01:11]
Scott Melker
Point, you know, I. I know. Well, I, I can. I know why you had to cut your hair. I can tell you. I don't even know. I didn't ask you. But it's because of this. It's because obviously you just did a massive deal with Microsoft.
- [01:24]
Scott Dystra
Yeah, that's the exact reason I got a haircut. Totally Microsoft.
- [01:29]
Scott Melker
I had to walk into the board meeting and. Pitch yourself to Microsoft.
- [01:33]
Scott Dystra
Put a darn suit on, please.
- [01:35]
Scott Melker
Yes, but tell me about this. Let's break it down.
- [01:38]
Scott Dystra
Yeah, Microsoft's been awesome. So they've been great partners through the years, but most recently we just launched Space and Time mainnet. And we're so excited to make this happen. And Microsoft's been backing us, one of our largest backers. And so they've been incredibly supportive for getting this network launched.
- [01:56]
Scott Melker
How big was this deal? Microsoft round was 40 million or something. Is that correct?
- [02:01]
Scott Dystra
2020.
- [02:03]
Scott Melker
I like to double things. This is crypto.
- [02:05]
Scott Dystra
We all do.
- [02:06]
Scott Melker
You have to exaggerate everything, at least double. But interestingly, obviously what you guys are doing is it's ZK Proven Data infrastructure. Iago, you were the first guy to ever do this on bitcoin.
- [02:21]
Yago
Yeah, I mean, look, I think this is a super big deal and is a window into the world into which we are rapidly moving. So, you know, I've been saying for a while, ZK fundamentally changes everything we know about crypto. I think space and time are one of the projects that are leading the change that we're seeing, space and time chain has a totally different way of validating data from every other smart contract chain that you're familiar with. The old school way that we've been doing it for the last 10 years since Ethereum launched, is you take the entire VM, you take all of the data, you take all of the code and you shove it into the blockchain. The blockchain gets really, really slow and bloated. But the worst part about it is that you're doing all of this to create verified computations, publicly verifiable compute. And the way that you do this verifiable compute in the old school way of doing things is verification via redundancy. Every single node, every single validator has to rerun every single computation. So instead of building a world computer, you build the entire world needs to calculate a calculator sucks. It's the reason it doesn't scale. And so what Scott and Space and Time are doing is they are moving into the ZKH where you can do cryptographic verification. And so now one computer can prove that it did things right. Create a tiny little proof, and everyone can just verify that tiny little proof. It is the future.
- [03:48]
Scott Melker
For the record, I introduced these guys three minutes ago, maybe five.
- [03:53]
Scott Dystra
I'm so used.
- [03:54]
Scott Melker
Did you even know that he knew.
- [03:59]
Scott Dystra
People to help, you know, get the message out, you want to join the team or. That's perfect.
- [04:04]
Scott Melker
I mean, that was. That was. You just cut that up and hire him. I guess, I guess.
- [04:09]
Scott Dystra
Homepage of Space and Time. We'll just make that a video clip.
- [04:11]
Scott Melker
That's it. But Yago, to your point, this can be done in multiple chains and what they're doing is huge. But you're obviously focusing on doing this on Bitcoin. And now we have to talk about Yago, your news really quickly because this is huge. Bitcoin OS demo sends Bitcoin to Cardano and back without a cross chain bridge. How the hell do you do that?
- [04:31]
Yago
So this is exactly. ZK is magic. And I think people are messing. Look, I mean, I think the smart money knows that this is happening. And the old school way of doing layer ones, in fact, the idea of a layer one no longer makes sense. And it's part of the reason that altcoins and sort of like the legacy L1s have been suffering for over a year. What ZK does is it allows us to, from first principles, rethink crypto. And so, for example, today, on a smart contract chain like Ethereum, you have a token, ERC20. That token is created by one of these old school smart contracts. That means that the token doesn't actually exist in your wallet. It exists in the smart contract as a line in an account. It means that if you try to move the token to any other chain, you have to go through a bridge. And it means that once you do that, it loses all connection to any smart contract that it was interacting. So what we were thinking is how can we get smart contract functionality onto Bitcoin? And to do that we needed to create something so minimalist that it could exist even on Bitcoin with the tiny data availability and the lack of sort of native smart contract availability. And so we created ZK proofs where the inputs are the smart contract themselves. And as we were building this sort of one penny dropped off to the other and we realized you can actually create tokens which are the token itself is represented by a proof. And then a user can write a proof to a chain saying, all right, this, this token, I'm transacting it to another chain. They don't need a bridge, they just take the proof, write the proof to a new chain. And now the token exists in the new chain, but continues to interact with any smart contract at once. And so where I think we're heading is the work that Scott and Space and Time are doing integrates with the work that others like Succinct and, and, and, and Risk zero doing. And the work that we're doing to a world where basically crypto starts to look more like the Internet. It's all tiny little packets of proofs being passed between users. Massive, effectively infinite scale, infinite throughput. And for developers, what this looks like is instead of within crypto, you go, you build a product, you build a smart contract, you deploy it to Ethereum. Now you want to deploy to Solana. Okay, so you go and you rewrite it and you redeploy it. Now you're maintaining two systems, you got two user bases, you've got two pools of liquidity, and that's just with two chains. What we're going to move into quite rapidly is a world where developers come and using the technologies that sort of the companies that are on the forefront and the projects that are on the forefront are providing you build once, you deploy once, and you serve the entire world. Like Web2.
- [07:09]
Scott Dystra
Yeah, TLDR. I think that was perfectly stated. TLDR crypto has been 100 servers redundantly doing work that's inefficient to have one server do the work, but prove it. Space and time does that for databases. Iago's doing that for Bitcoin. It's game over now.
- [07:27]
Yago
I know it looks like our conversation here is super coordinated, and it is. It's coordinated by facts. Like, I've never met Scott. We've never spoken before right now, but we.
- [07:35]
Scott Melker
I didn't even know you knew what space and time was. And I didn't even know.
- [07:37]
Scott Dystra
He's like, what?
- [07:39]
Dan
Totally.
- [07:40]
Scott Dystra
Don't you.
- [07:41]
Yago
Yeah. So I think. But the thing is, right, like, if you're. If you're keeping your eyes open and you're looking at where the space is moving on the basis of first principles, it's just anyone who sees it, once you've seen it, you can't unsee it.
- [07:55]
Scott Dystra
Yeah.
- [07:56]
Scott Melker
That's interesting because, Scott, like, you've had obviously, the Solanas of the world saying you do everything on one chain, Right. Go to the layer one. We've seen, obviously, the pain of layer twos on Ethereum. So there's a little bit of a different pitch for the future of crypto than maybe what we've been seeing in the market of late.
- [08:14]
Scott Dystra
Yeah. I'm an old ETH maxi and I've been like a masochist just taking that.
- [08:20]
Scott Melker
ETH pain bottoms in scope. No, just kidding. Go ahead.
- [08:24]
Scott Dystra
Yeah, but the reason I bring that up is because ETH needs an overhaul. And one way we overhaul it is use it as a settlement layer for ZK proofs, in the same way that Yago is using BTC as a settlement layer for his proofs. And as Yago said, hey, I have to build these extremely lightweight, extremely succinct proofs because Bitcoin doesn't have a lot of compute to verify. It doesn't have a lot of capabilities to verify. So you have to bend and twist and turn your ZK proof to fit it into Bitcoin. In a similar way, we still have to kind of do the same thing on Ethereum, but at least Ethereum has a little more compute, a little more tools we can verify. Why don't we use Ethereum to make this great ZK settlement layer? And I think that's what Vitalik and team envision. Right. They write about this a lot. Space and time is helping usher that era in and kind of fixing the fragmented liquidity of all these L2s that have kind of broken the UX of Ethereum.
- [09:14]
Yago
Yeah. And I mean, I think it's not a secret that I'm about the furthest thing in the world from an Eth Maxi, you think? But despite that, I think that Vitalik and Ethereum have been getting a lot of undeserved fudge by people who don't understand what they're trying to do. They are trying to move Ethereum into the future. It's a very, very difficult thing to do. They're trying to sort of rewrite the very basic architecture. I don't know if they'll succeed, but they've seen what we've seen.
- [09:48]
Scott Melker
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I mean, it's the same approach on two different chains. I don't think that that's so, like, contentious, to be quite honest. Right, So I think that maybe there's a fundamental belief that everything should be settled on Bitcoin or not. But everybody agrees that this is the way that things are going to be settled, right?
- [10:07]
Yago
No, I actually don't think. I think the vast majority of people. Right. Like, if you see what people write, like, oh, the Ethereum foundation, there are a bunch of idiots sinned, right? But you know, everyone, they haven't helped themselves at all. Sui is the next Solana, etc. Etc. But no, most people haven't recognized that. Basically, it's like most people are still riding horses and are saying, like, can we get a bigger horse? And then people like Scott are coming around and saying, I've got a car.
- [10:36]
Scott Dystra
Dudes, I got a rocket ship. Hop in.
- [10:39]
Scott Melker
Okay, so let's talk about practical applications of all this then, before we dive into what's happening in the markets, because I just find this fascinating. So we're at early iterations, right? Obviously, proof of concept. I mean, Iago, this is the first time this has been done, right? You're not doing millions of them today. So what are we going to use this for? Scott, I'll start with you. But what are we going to use this for now that it's being proven practically?
- [11:02]
Scott Dystra
That's the right question. How does this apply to end users? Oh, you got this great tech that sends data to smart contracts in a trustless or permissionless or proven way. Cool. But what does that mean for end users? When we first started, space and time, I think it was like late Covid in 2020 and I was starting to write my own smart contracts. I was like, wait, there's no database on Ethereum, there's no database on Bitcoin. Hell, there's no database on L2s. I'm so used to a Web2 experience where you go on Snapchat and it tailors the experience to your history. You go on any social media, you go on any Web2 app, you go in your bank account. They know everything about you, and they tailor the experience to who you are. They know your history, your transactions, your liquidity, your capital, everything you've done in crypto. Every defi protocol you interact with has absolutely no idea your history. They don't know your transactions, your liquidity, what games you've interacted with, what protocols you've played with. Why can't smart contracts ask a ZK proven database? Hey, who is Scott's wallet? Why is he transacting? How many loans has he paid off? And let me tailor a great defi experience or great gaming experience or great on chain loyalty, airdrop, social experience, you name it, based on actual cryptographically proven data. And Yago is trying to say, hey, we can do the same for Bitcoin. This improves the ux. It improves the UX for bridging. It improves the UX for across the world. But we're trying to give smart contracts the ability to ask, who the heck is Scott's wallet? What has Scott done on chain? And let me give Scott a unique, tailored, parameter changed experience.
- [12:30]
Scott Melker
That's one side, right? And then the other side is that I can basically verify my data without giving away everything, right? So like, I can send someone a ZK proof that says, yes, Scott's 21 years old. Yes, Scott can drink. Yes, Scott is not a pedophile. Yes, Scott has a good credit score.
- [12:48]
Yago
I don't think you can proof of that proof has to be true, Scott.
- [12:51]
Dan
The proof has to be.
- [12:55]
Scott Melker
Scott. There's two Scots. Damn it. But either way, right, but without them having to actually do a criminal history or check my Social Security number or any of those things, right, it's just a single thing that says yes without my personal data. Is that correct? From the other side, Iago or Sky.
- [13:13]
Yago
So I think, yeah, yeah. So I think what we're going to see is the merging of crypto and the Internet. Instead of building the Internet of value, we're just going to see the Internet that we know with value. And really what, what this power is going to do is it's going to liberate our data and our, our digital assets in a way that have never been liberated before. And we don't need Facebook's or Amazon's or our bank's permission to do it. So already we're starting to see projects developing on us. And I imagine Scott, you guys are seeing the same. We're building tools like go Log into your bank, create a proof that your bank, Your bank has KYC'd you, and then deliver this to a smart contract without showing who you are and without the permission or the API or any integration with the bank. Right? This, this means that your data now becomes yours, even. Even if Twitter or your bank or Binance don't want to share it with you or anyone else. And that means that we're going to see major changes, not just for crypto, but for the entire construction of the Internet. I think this is basically everything we've been talking about. The technology is finally here.
- [14:24]
Scott Melker
It's so huge. Anyone who's been through any legacy process of getting a loan, getting a mortgage, buying a car, and sitting there for hours and the credit checks and all these things, this literally makes it instantaneous and you control your data. It has to be one of the biggest innovations that just kind of got lost in the shuffle over the hype of AI agents and NFTs and all the kind of things that we've done, right? It's really practical.
- [14:49]
Yago
Yes, it is. But also, to be fair, it takes a long time for people to think how long it took for people to recognize that Bitcoin was actually important.
- [14:59]
Scott Melker
Right?
- [15:00]
Yago
Think about how long it took for people to realize that Defi was important. These things took years and they were working before people started to pay attention. And sort of the trick obviously is to try and figure this out before other people. But by definition, most people won't do that.
- [15:19]
Scott Dystra
What we figured out is I go to your point, as this consumer data comes on board, as consumers start doing what they call ZKTLS proofs, which is a very, very complicated name just to say exactly what Yago just described me logging into my bank account, proving it to a smart contract, that I have a certain credit score or a certain checking balance, you name it, or that I'm an accredited investor, whatever it may be. Space and time is offering kind of a landing zone for all this data. Consumer logs in, builds a ZK proof, and instead of sending it to a smart contract on Bitcoin or smart contract on Ethereum, just send it to space and time chain. We witness the data, store it, put it in a cryptographic, the first tamper proof, cryptographically proven database ever built. And then smart contracts can just query that whenever they need space and time, aggregates it all, lands it all, holds it all, secures it all. And then like a smart contract is like, yo, show me all users with a bank with a score greater than 600, show me all users with at least a million dollars in their account and their accredited investors just run SQL ZK prove it.
- [16:25]
Yago
And I don't have any sort of insider information here, but I would imagine that's probably also sort of the pitch that sold Microsoft on this idea. They recognize that this is effectively the future, not just of the Internet, but of all computation. Computation is going to become verifiable and they want to be ahead of that.
- [16:44]
Scott Dystra
Especially as nothing to do with crypto. Nothing to do with exactly what has to do with Defense Department A proven to Defense Department B where a warship is bank A proving to bank B that they're not cooking their books so that manipulating bond prices.
- [17:02]
Scott Melker
This is terrible. There's no bags to pump then come on man, you need to tell me how this is going to affect my meme coin.
- [17:09]
Scott Dystra
So true. I'm so sorry.
- [17:10]
Scott Melker
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
- [17:11]
Yago
Well no, I mean like I'll give you an example of how this could affect a meme coin. Imagine you, but imagine you wanted to create a meme coin which actually had purpose, right? Because everyone talks about meme coins are about community. Well, let's say you wanted to create a meme coin where you earn the meme coin by demonstrating that you've participated in a charity race or you've contributed to, you know, your local community or.
- [17:41]
Scott Dystra
You'Ve lost, you've lost 40 grand just trading coins on pump fund in your.
- [17:45]
Yago
Exactly right. That. Exactly right. So, so you what, what I think we'll start to see is the entire like all of your life will become on the one hand more under your control. Your digital life becomes more under your control and at the same time becomes more transportable. And I think we're going to, you know, ultimately the kind of products that we will see from this are, will be as revolutionary as Airbnb.
- [18:15]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean this is wild. I see people in the comments saying stop with the database. You're just going to sell our data. That the whole point is that they don't know it's your data.
- [18:23]
Yago
That or they, and they don't even have the data.
- [18:25]
Scott Melker
They don't have the data. They just have the proof that you have the data.
- [18:29]
Scott Dystra
And we don't sell anything. We are, we only accept what users have signed and sent to us.
- [18:35]
Yago
You opt into this, Scott. I, I, I, I have a bit of a reputation for doing, doing hard nose DDs. So yeah, if you want I could do, I could do a system and then people in that we can talk about it. Sometime in the future. And people in the comments. So you can sort of get what I believe is, did you do a.
- [18:53]
Scott Melker
DD on the people you haven't already done? I'm not even here. I thought you both had everything on me.
- [19:00]
Scott Dystra
Listen, I'm outside your house right now doing DD on you.
- [19:03]
Scott Melker
Yeah, obviously. Who's not? We're all actually in the same room. But listen, so I do want to cook through a few quick just news stories before we lose track of them. Because so much has happened in the past, even few hours, much less days. We know that bitcoin's been kind of pushing towards 100. I don't think that's a huge story. It's just I woke up and I was like, whoa.
- [19:23]
Scott Dystra
Okay.
- [19:23]
Scott Melker
It's nice, it's nice. But you know, we have a couple of stories that are definitely worth like mentioning, especially for me. Going bank to bank with ZK Proof US banks can buy and sell customers crypto assets on their behalf. OCC says slight departure from the days of the of operation choke point 2.0. Yet Arizona, if you guys missed it. We were dunking on Arizona a couple of days ago because the governor vetoed the first bitcoin reserve bill while the second one was approved. Now we have New Hampshire and Arizona once again. All this in the past couple days and you have casually Secretary Scott Bessant saying the US should be the premier destination for digital assets. It's like, I mean, Scott, you're in the U.S. it's like a fever dream every day. It's like all the things that we railed against for all these years, we get some other piece of news that in and of itself, one of these would have been earth shattering a year or two ago.
- [20:16]
Scott Dystra
And it's, it's, I completely agree. It's so earth shattering and yet it's completely disconnected from the sentiment right now or the sentiment that we've seen at least coming up to today on crypto, Twitter or like in the community. The sentiment has been pretty dead, hasn't it? And then here we are, just like watching this market explode with good news on institutional adoption on states buying crypto for their reserve. And yet where's, where's the hype? Where's the excitement on the timeline?
- [20:43]
Scott Melker
I feel like, Iago, you could probably speak to this, but I feel like it's still because altcoins have generally underperformed and because most people in crypto now have no exposure to bitcoin. That's my feeling.
- [20:57]
Yago
So first of all, I mean, you should fix that by getting some exposure to bitcoin.
- [21:01]
Scott Melker
I have some. Yeah.
- [21:04]
Yago
And I think, look, we're in this weird situation for a long time. I've been saying, you know, probably for the last three months I've been saying the price is going to start kicking off in May. And I, and I've been doing this because three months ago, the global money supply started to rise. And sort of over the course of our meetings here on Thursdays, I've mentioned that several times. It's very cool to be proven, or it looks like I'm being proven right right now. And so I think that's the primary driver. But there's a secondary thing, sort of an undercurrent, which is that crypto has been disappointing. Right. We've, you know, as the crypto industry, we've been promising all kinds of shit and a lot of it has, most of it has not delivered. And I think that the problem is we've been building a huge amount of infra, but we've been building the wrong infra. And so when people say we have enough infra, they're not right. They're, they're right that there's too much infra, but there's not enough of the right infra. And I think that what we're seeing now with ordinals, with boss, with the growth in bitcoin, with the growth in zk, it's those, those places are where the infra of tomorrow is being built. And it's the infra that we would have been building had the technology been available. And, and, but it's just so cutting edge. It's like becoming available to us right now.
- [22:22]
Scott Melker
So we didn't need 50 layer ones and 100 layer twos. That's what you're saying.
- [22:26]
Scott Dystra
We needed 200.
- [22:27]
Yago
We didn't need, we certainly didn't need 50,000 layer ones.
- [22:31]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean, Scott, what do you think of that?
- [22:34]
Scott Dystra
Okay, so I think we'll start with the beginning of this conversation around altcoins, then we'll get to the layer ones. I think you're right, Scott. Like, I think people are exhausted. I think that, you know, like they're not holding bitcoin so they can't celebrate this, this move up in, in, in bitcoin itself that often in the past will eventually trickle to an altcoin season. Who knows? What I think is there are liquid funds and institutional investors that are going to drive the rest of the year, maybe hopefully deep into 2026, where this cycle is not driven by retail buying. NFTs it's not Scotty going out on OpenSea and buying an NFT that I regret six months later, or signing up.
- [23:20]
Scott Melker
To a centralized exchange and waiting three months just so I can buy one meme coin, which was Dogecoin, and then.
- [23:25]
Scott Dystra
Losing like $1,000 to fees for no reason because I don't know what I'm doing. And so this, what's happening right now is like there's a complete separation of retail from liquid funds that are coming in and saying, look, we have a three year, four year, five year, six year vision on Bitcoin. We're buying up incredible amounts over the next year and a half. And there's this opportunity that bitcoin just zooms over the next year and a half or two years while, you know, the rest of the market flounders on shitty mean coins. And you're asking, hey, do we need 50 L1s? Do we need 300 L2s? Back in 2021, you know, all my friends were investing in Polygon, like the first real popular L2. We all did, right? We all bought Matic in 2021 when we not Yago, he's like, dude, I just bought Bitcoin. But like all my friends were like, Scott, L2S is the future. I'm like, guys, there's so much capital in Ethereum Mainnet. It will get fixed. There's no way the L2s is the strategy. There's no way like Vitalik is planning on scaling ETH by like adding 2,000L2s. Boy, was I wrong. And I think that hurt.
- [24:34]
Yago
Eat.
- [24:35]
Scott Dystra
Ultimately that didn't. They didn't actually fix the main net. And what Yago's trying to explain in the best way he possibly can, I think he's done a great job. Is that the only way for Eth to win long term? And to get to the, the point where we can actually make this chain hella usable is basically redesign the whole chain with ZK proofs, make it a ZK chain. And we know that's what's happening. It's exciting, but it's going to take a while.
- [24:57]
Yago
Yeah, it's exciting and will take a while. And I think, you know, Scott does this thing, I go only bought btc, but I don't do it like, like, I'm not religious about it, I'm not religious about it. I just, I'm just like risk, reward, fundamental analysis. And I've been looking for the last 10 years at sort of like the smart contract paradigm of increasingly bloated chains, increasing fragmentation. And I just didn't think that network effects were being built. What I'm seeing in bitcoin is network effects being built. And what I'm seeing in ZK is the ability to leverage those network effects in ways that we've never had to, never been able to before. Because up until now, if you wanted to do anything, you needed to launch your own chain, and that just broke the network.
- [25:41]
Scott Dystra
It didn't.
- [25:41]
Yago
It didn't mend it. ZK mends the network. We're going to see crypto turn into a super network.
- [25:48]
Scott Melker
Yeah. Final thoughts, Scott? We got to 929. That happened really fast. But anything else last Iago is right.
- [25:55]
Scott Dystra
That bitcoin is here to stay. It is not going anywhere. It is going to be a fundamental foundational ZK verified currency for institutional adoption. However, like, there's apps that need to be built, and it's sometimes very challenging to build those apps without.
- [26:15]
Yago
Scott, I'll show you how you build apps in bitcoin.
- [26:17]
Scott Melker
Hey, I was just gonna say this sounds like. I mean, did you ever guys see the movie Step Brothers? Do we just become best friends and you guys are gonna have, like, collapsing bunk beds and be doing karate by. Like, it does sound like there's a marriage here. Like, it does sound like there's a way. I mean, I. Scott, you. You wouldn't hate to see this work on bitcoin.
- [26:41]
Scott Dystra
You play drums.
- [26:42]
Yago
There you go. Look, look, you heard it here. We can now announce there's a potential partnership between boss.
- [26:52]
Scott Melker
From Microsoft. Don't worry.
- [26:55]
Scott Dystra
I was gonna do his DD first, though.
- [26:58]
Yago
Dixtra. Let's see you and I get on a chat offline.
- [27:02]
Scott Dystra
Great. Me, I'm all about it.
- [27:03]
Scott Melker
I love that. Congratulations on the huge Microsoft investment, Yago. And congratulations, Scott, on, you know, getting some bitcoin and Cardano move in without a bridge. Since you're now partners, maybe.
- [27:18]
Yago
Maybe you should. We should. We should. You should have a new show. Founder dating. Speed dating.
- [27:25]
Scott Melker
I like that you just.
- [27:26]
Yago
You just bring founders on you speed day. Them you see, like, oh, I think these two, they would. They're gonna hate each other. Let's put them on.
- [27:33]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I think that it would actually, you know, like, real dating shows, the entertainment would come in the 90 of the time when they just hated each other. So that'd be. I think that.
- [27:41]
Yago
I think that was gonna be the most entertaining episodes.
- [27:44]
Scott Melker
Well, you can follow both these guys on X. Scott, I know you're at chief Biddle, right? That's correct. I remember that even from back in the day I didn't even have to look you up. That was kind of crazy. And of course I go, you guys are all following anyways, but you should be. And now we're going to move on. Thank you guys so much.
- [28:00]
Scott Dystra
Thanks Scott.
- [28:02]
Scott Melker
All right, now we got to talk about the markets more deeply because we got Dan from chart guys here. Bitcoin man, wake up.
- [28:09]
Dan
Do you have any friends?
- [28:10]
Scott Melker
100K.
- [28:11]
Dan
I'm looking for some friends if you got anyone for me.
- [28:13]
Scott Melker
Dude, I didn't even know like I can bring on some weird technical analysts that I, you know, might be quirky or something and then you can tell him he's wrong and you'll hate each other. Then we'll bring on another one and you know, it'd be perfect.
- [28:25]
Dan
Yeah, bitcoin looks great. We were, we were looking for the monthly higher lows end of April into May. We got them even. You know, there's been multiple times recently where even, even just yesterday the reaction to the FOMC bitcoin was the winner. It had a bull reaction. It gave back less than the broader market on consolidation. We were watching this base of support and again we're just, you know, walking up the levels that are most important. And right now it's 93, 000 after we held it. This is the four hour time frame. We held it a bunch and we did double top at resistance but a quick little bull flag into another high. So what the bulls want to see is a hold of any backtest of our previous resistance. So now we've got just under 98,000. Ideally the next time we see four hour consolidation, we hold that level. And in terms of the next resistance, Obviously the psychological $100,000 level, we have a couple tops up there from back in early February and then it's just the all time high zone. So bulls don't have anything to worry about in the short term. Again, I keep talking about weekly consolidation will happen eventually and it'll be just fine because we have a lot of space for the higher low to form. That's when I'm going to be looking to add to long swing positions. But again, looking great. Monthly higher low set right off EMA 12. Just like the last period of consolidation. Once my EMA 12 populates, there we go. And yeah, there are no red flags whatsoever. And so, you know, could we form a monthly lower high? Yeah, it's possible but we're not seeing any, any signs of any weakness at this point.
- [29:57]
Scott Melker
I'm going to put you on the spot. Tell me because we've talked about so many times and I might be crazy, tell me why I shouldn't be buying ETH like crazy here. Right. The weekly had this reversal Right. To the 2018 high. Right. The weekly has its reversal and climbing. It's outperforming right now, but we've seen that a thousand times. But go to this monthly candle. I mean look at the monthly on eth right now with that candle. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm not buying it to like an all time high, but tell me why this isn't aggressively tradable. Right now look at the ETH BTC chart. Massive bullish divergence there at the bottom which I shared. And now look at this candle. And this is the first time in a very long time we've seen bitcoin made a really strong move and ETH and then alts following kind of outperforming. You have to be paying attention.
- [30:42]
Dan
I'm sorry.
- [30:43]
Scott Melker
I know people hate it.
- [30:44]
Dan
Yeah, I was watching this. I mean if you've got your bitcoin exposure like many of us do, then absolutely, you know, if you're gonna. We're waiting for altcoins to show signs of life and you know, that's, it's definitely. The risk reward is definitely there for an attempt. I've been watching this 12 hour channel on ETH and it's trying to break bull here. So that's obviously a good sign. And again, just let's go way zoomed out, six month time frame. I am looking for a higher low compared to 8. 880 is the most likely scenario. And yes, you know, if we don't get a major alt season, it's possible we just tighten up for another bunch of years. But that means we bounce up a good bit, you know, 20 plus at least. So. Yeah. And you as you mentioned ETH BTC weekly, what stands out to me is we had a lower high every single week for months and that has broken bull. And the dominance chart has not seen a break of the higher low every week pattern yet. So if that starts consolidation, eth BTC is going to get some further follow through. As you mentioned, a ton of work to do on ETH btc.
- [31:47]
Scott Melker
Listen, this is still like, it's still a bearish chart if you zoom out. I don't want anybody to think that there's a call for all time highs. I'm just saying it looks really good for a very nice reactionary bounce.
- [31:59]
Dan
Yeah, I mean risk reward is there. Bitcoin is way stronger. If you're looking for the most bullish chart in crypto, I mean there's a couple altcoins, not many, but bitcoin's got it. But yeah, definitely, you know, if you're looking to spread out that risk a bit, especially as you know, fear keeps cooling off in the broader market. We got the NASDAQ currently testing the bounce highs. A little rejection initially, but the bulls are still in complete control there. If we were to lose the little low of yesterday, that would say okay, maybe we get that weekly consolidation and maybe we are a little bit patient here. So I am still keeping an eye on broader market sentiment for that aspect. But Yeah, I mean eth solid weekly bounce ema12 resistance coming up. But we are creating some space to attempt to confirm a weekly uptrend for the first time since we double topped at 4,000. So again, you know, a conservative bull is already making moves. A patient bull will wait for weekly higher lows. You have to accept that things might run away from you a bit, but I need to determine what's best for you and that depends on how much allocation you have already put into play. We've also got other names like mstr which Daily Bull Flag has now confirmed. So continuation there. And again, remember MSTR maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago. I forget when I was on saying it's showing us this relative strength. For me MSTR was, was the most convincing thing to say. Look, long crypto.
- [33:20]
Scott Melker
I bought a lot back.
- [33:21]
Dan
Yeah.
- [33:22]
Scott Melker
Yeah.
- [33:22]
Dan
And so again it was the Same thing monthly EMA 12 higher low off of it, perfectly fine consolidation and a nice move up.
- [33:33]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean do like just as we kind of like wrap it up. The general thoughts, I mean, are you thinking the bottom is in for stocks? I mean we did get like a 20% retrace. You know, I guess if you're looking for a sustained bear market or a great depression, that's not enough. But in the new era of recessions are illegal. As Matt Hogan once said on my show now according to governments looks pretty bottomy. I mean this is a massive V shaped recovery that's recovered beyond the catalyst of liberation day.
- [34:04]
Scott Dystra
Right.
- [34:05]
Scott Melker
I mean things are higher than where they were when we got the dip Bitcoin way higher. That was like at like 82 or 84. It's at 100. Stocks are back to where they started.
- [34:13]
Dan
Yeah. I made a post on Twitter this morning. Don't use macroeconomics to try and predict short term price action. And a lot of people on twitt doing that and not understanding this rally right now, you know, how are we higher than the tariff day when nothing's been resolved? It's just price action. But yeah, I mean, you know, I've been trained in my career considering I started 2010 where we v shape every time and I have to continue reminding myself like there's going to be a time where that's not the case. But as of right now it's, it's showing us very similar action. And, and you know, is it possible we set a monthly lower high and tighten up or is it possible that we set a monthly lower high? I mean, you're gonna need a new reason for fear in my opinion. The only time you get these massive sell offs or when there's something fundamentally that can scare retail and I'm, you know, we would need something new. And so, you know, that could always happen. But in the absence of something new, you know, these tariff headlines I think have done their damage and it would have to be something else than that. And so yeah, I mean I'm preparing, you know, I'm back to being bullish because that's what the price action is saying. And I'll definitely change, you know, shift if things change.
- [35:28]
Scott Melker
But I mean the Fed was not even remotely dovish yesterday. I mean Powell is as hawkish and said I'm not going to do anything. And markets are still wanting to go up. So it's hard to be bearish when you see that markets want to go up on basically any news. I would show you, I know we got to run, but I would show you. Sui looks incredible here. Bull flag right into resistance breaking out. Just to give people an idea of what else happened with Alts and for Solana, I mean I drew lines a while ago, but still you also kind of have a breakout from support here. So some of the kind of bigger names that have moved in the past ahead of other things are moving and eth moving. So maybe this is a time where altcoins get really interesting. I think it'd be really interesting here if bitcoin kind of chilled around 100 and we actually saw altcoins blast off while bitcoin was bullishly consolidated. Absolutely interesting scenario.
- [36:16]
Dan
For me that's the pattern that we've seen time and time again in cycles and yeah, sideways bitcoin, sideways bitcoin dominance dump. Altcoins rip. And we've gotten these little one day glimpses. Today is a one day glimpse. Let's see if we can, you know, follow through, give us, give us a real bullish altcoin weekend. We know weekends have become boring, but. But when they start picking up on the weekend, that's when we know it's for real.
- [36:40]
Scott Melker
All right, guys, that's all we got for you. Gotta jump and get on Sirius XM, like, 30 seconds ago. Dan, everybody. Follow the chart, guys, and thank you. We'll see you next week. Have a good one. Let's go.
- [37:04]
Scott Dystra
That's dope.