Podcast Summary: "Bitcoin & Saylor Take On JPMorgan! What This Actually Means..."

The Wolf Of All Streets with Scott Melker
Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

Scott Melker is joined by Andrew and Tillman for a deep-dive conversation on recent conflicts and narratives in the world of Bitcoin, traditional finance (TradFi), and crypto. The episode centers on the brewing confrontation involving JP Morgan, central banks, Michael Saylor/MicroStrategy, and shifting market dynamics, with additional discussion about the evolving roles of Coinbase, tokenized assets, and automated trading strategies. Throughout, the hosts punctuate key debates with industry insight, personal anecdotes, and sharp-witted commentary.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The JP Morgan-Bitcoin-MicroStrategy Saga

[00:01–08:07]

• JP Morgan Pressures and "Debanking":
  • JP Morgan has been accused of "debanking" crypto figures and institutions, notably removing Jack Mallers (Strike) and facing backlash from vocal Bitcoin advocates.
  • Scott Melker: "Grant Cardone I think canceled his account was like 20 million... Jack Mallers has forcibly been removed from JP Morgan... This has led to this endless controversy about whether JP Morgan is forcibly attacking Bitcoin, certainly MicroStrategy." ([01:30])
• Impact on MicroStrategy:
  • Andrew highlights JP Morgan's influence in public markets, pointing out their commentary on whether MicroStrategy should be (de)listed, creating market red flags.
    • Andrew: "JP Morgan is an absolute force... When they weigh in... that's a huge, huge red flag..." ([02:13])
  • Dismissing conspiracy rumors about JP Morgan shorting MicroStrategy, framing the situation as competitive maneuvering rather than direct sabotage.
    • Andrew: "JP Morgan doesn't have this massive hedge fund down in the basement... It's just not the truth..." ([04:05])
• Narrative Control & Market Volatility:
  • Discussion of accusations that JP Morgan "manufactured" a market crash by resurfacing an old MSCI delisting document for MicroStrategy at a key moment, leading to significant sell pressure.
    • Scott: "The accusation that this is manufactured is... listen, I don't really pander and conspiracy. Show me the proof." ([05:32])

2. TradFi vs. Crypto — Or TradFi vs. TradFi?

[05:32–09:59]

• Not Just Crypto vs. Banks:
  • Tillman reframes the narrative: "This is not TradFi versus crypto... these are just pieces of paper and this is just the game that's been... MicroStrategy just has unique characteristics."
  • The "welcome to the big leagues" moment—being targeted by JP Morgan means Bitcoin and related companies are now "final bosses" in the market ([05:32]).
• MicroStrategy’s Threat as a Bitcoin Bank:
  • Andrew speculates JP Morgan is responding to MicroStrategy’s ambitions to offer Bitcoin-based banking products, which is a structural threat.
    • Andrew: "MicroStrategy at some point probably wants to be a bank and their base layer is Bitcoin... So all of this is a version of let's poke here, let's poke there..." ([06:48])
  • Saylor’s success with yield products and new banking-like services is directly challenging JP Morgan’s domain.
    • Scott: "His products are absolutely crushing it... he's not selling bitcoin anymore. He's selling banking services." ([08:19])
• Coinbase as a Larger Threat:
  • Debate over why JP Morgan isn’t going after Coinbase as aggressively; Andrew’s take—Coinbase is too big to fight head-on.
    • Andrew: "Coinbase can do everything that JP Morgan does and they do it faster and more efficient and with more customers." ([06:48])
    • Tillman: "Coinbase is the queen on the board or the king on the board..." ([13:25])

3. Coinbase, ICOs, and the IPO Revolution

[09:59–17:31]

• Coinbase's Disruptive ICO Model:
  • Coinbase recently launched a highly successful, fully compliant ICO for Monad, drawing comparisons to legacy IPO processes.
    • Tillman: "ICOs are here and IPOs are out today. This marks it." ([11:32])
    • The token launched with measured gains (35–60%) and real institutional rules, creating what feels like a mature, transparent pathway for crypto fundraising ([11:43–12:52]).
• Access & Democratization:
  • The Coinbase model offers direct, fair access to investment opportunities, upending "old boys’ club" Wall Street IPO distribution.
    • Tillman: "Nobody here got invited to the Tesla IPO... But we got invited to the Monad IPO through Coinbase." ([15:54])
  • Prediction that even non-crypto companies may opt for ICOs due to speed, reach, and lower costs.
    • Scott: "You can literally become a billionaire as a founder. Your company can become worth billions before it does anything." ([16:54])
• Comparisons to Binance and Tokenization Trajectory:
  • Coinbase's institutional reputation stands in contrast to Binance, leading to Coinbase becoming the preferred custodian for ETFs by major finance organizations ([18:25–20:43]).
    • Andrew: "Coinbase... you can’t really argue with the results..." ([20:04])

4. The New Financial Landscape: Tokenization & Real-World Assets

[24:23–36:42]

• Legacy Banks’ Strategic Shift:
  • As crypto exchanges innovate, traditional banks now seek to partner or compete through tokenization of real-world assets (RWAs).
    • Scott: "BlackRock, JP Morgan, [and] SBC say tokenized assets have more potential than stablecoins..." ([27:00])
    • Andrew: "It's another race on a different track... that market is so infinitely bigger... if they get there before Coinbase... then they win." ([27:56])
• Hurdles and Skepticism:
  • Tillman describes the unsolved complexities (authenticity, chain of custody, counterparty risk) around true RWA tokenization, warning against “fake narratives” from legacy players.
    • Tillman: "How do you authenticate something? Sure, you can authenticate it on chain, but how does the real-world asset get authenticated still against the certificate?" ([28:26])
  • The crew debates whether much of tokenization is really just 24/7 ETF-like trading under a new label.
    • Andrew: "...tokenization to me is just the ability to run 24/7 trading... They want to call it something cool..." ([31:04])
    • Tillman: "If it's just for equities, you could do it... It's the death of the old system by definition, because... all [the] other rule sets attached to ownership that I don't get the benefit of..." ([35:49])

5. Shifting Customers and Business Models

[36:42–38:41]

• The Customer Base Arms Race:
  • Discussion of Morgan Stanley’s $13B acquisition of E*Trade—the underlying reason? Expanding from just 3.2 million to up to 20 million customers.
    • Andrew: "TradFi companies don't have enough customers and all of them are old and dying. And then crypto companies want to make more money because banks make a lot of money..." ([37:19])

6. Automated Trading, Risk, and ArchPublic Case Study

[39:02–53:02]

• Personal Portfolio Results:
  • Scott details his experience using ArchPublic’s automated strategies, outperforming simple buy-and-hold even in a down market.
    • Scott: "The account is now $400,000 and only down 10.4%. The market was down over 30% and I'm only down 10..." ([39:41])
  • Tillman frames the conversation around risk management and the discipline of automated dollar-cost averaging (DCA), likening it to shopping for suits only when on sale.
    • Tillman: "If you had lumped in all at 126, you’d have to wait to 126 to get back. Right now you gotta wait to 90-something..." ([40:48])
• Automated Yield Harvesting:
  • Explanation of how the algorithms "harvest the volatility"—buying dips, selling short-term pumps, and overall exceeding market returns.
    • Andrew: "Buy and hold Bitcoin from the beginning of this year is down 9%. Our Oracle protocol algorithm is +16.8. That's an absurd gap." ([43:36])
    • Tillman: "If you're not... harvesting the volatility, this [is] waiting for disproportionate moves to the upside... This harvests the volatility." ([44:33])
  • The tool is available free for small users, supporting education and experimentation.

7. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Market Manipulation Narratives:
  "This is a welcome party for us. This means that we're on the radar of JP Morgan and strategy has now catapulted themselves, you know, to the final boss..." – Tillman ([05:32])
• On Coinbase vs. Traditional IPOs:
  "Nobody here on this call got invited to the Tesla IPO... we got invited to the Monad IPO through Coinbase. It’s just that simple. It’s like access versus not access." – Tillman ([15:54])
• On Real-World Asset Tokenization Skepticism:
  "It just feels like another fake narrative to pump. Like it... feels like real world assets, real world assets. Well, I mean, show me one that's actually going to be an improvement to what we currently have..." – Tillman ([34:50])
• On Volatility:
  "If you're not... harvesting the volatility, you're not harvesting the volatility. This harvests the volatility." – Tillman ([44:33])
• On the Future of Crypto and Banking:
  "Two years from now, the conversations are going to be very, very different... how much of [banking] have they grabbed in terms of market share..." – Andrew ([25:39])

8. Memorable Light Moments

• Playful banter about “buying Bitcoin on newspaper sale alerts” and jokes about “aging” with analogies to Black Friday shopping ([51:49]).
• Discussion of confusion between BlackRock and Blackstone in public narratives ([52:33]).
• Hosts joke about being mistaken for reading print newspapers, with quips about "by the time they tell you, it'll be $10 million a coin" ([51:56]).

Timestamps for Major Segments

• JP Morgan vs. MicroStrategy: [00:01–08:07]
• TradFi versus Crypto and MicroStrategy’s rise: [05:32–09:59]
• Coinbase, ICO, and IPO disruption: [09:59–17:31]
• Reputation: Coinbase vs. Binance: [18:25–21:19]
• Tokenization and the Future of Finance: [24:23–36:42]
• Customer growth arms race: [36:42–38:41]
• ArchPublic and Automated Strategy case study: [39:02–53:02]
• Show wrap and closing banter: [52:08–54:07]

Conclusion

This episode presents a vivid snapshot of the changing tides in finance—where legacy institutions, crypto-native companies, and ambitious individuals like Michael Saylor clash and coalesce. The hosts dissect the latest controversies, highlight the disruptive force of automated tech and institutional crypto adoption, and look ahead to a future where access, tokenization, and smart strategy shape everything.

For more details:

• Case studies and portfolio analysis tools at archpublic.com ([53:37])
• Stay tuned for the next episode after the holiday break.