Podcast Summary: The Wolf Of All Streets

Episode: Bitcoin Sentiment DUMPS As CLARITY Act Talks Collapse!

Host: Scott Melker
Guest: John Wu (President, Ava Labs)
Date: January 22, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Scott Melker sits down with John Wu, President of Ava Labs, to unpack the recent turmoil in the crypto markets, industry sentiment, and the regulatory environment, notably the collapse of bipartisan support for the Clarity Act. The discussion weaves through market psychology, institutional adoption, enterprise blockchain applications, the hidden surge in real-world use cases, and evolving business models—especially in the face of legislative uncertainty and shifting investor attention.

The episode emphasizes how, beneath price stagnation and pessimistic news headlines, substantial progress is being made in blockchain adoption, with special focus on NFTs, loyalty programs, gaming, and tokenized finance. Throughout the conversation, Wu provides rare insights into what’s happening "behind the curtain," urging listeners not to conflate price action with technological or commercial momentum.

Key Discussion Points

1. Market Sentiment & the Aftermath of "10/10"

• Persistent Doldrums (01:01–03:08):
  John Wu notes that 2025 failed to live up to explosive expectations due in part to event-driven sell-offs, the “10/10” wipeout, and competition from AI stocks and prediction markets.

  “There were many substitutes for the asset class… AI stocks, prediction markets for those who love the thrill.” — John Wu (01:40)

• Lingering Pain and Recovery:
  Both note industry insiders still talk about the “bodies” floating up post-10/10, implying further unwinding may be yet to come, but things are clearly healing.

2. Institutional Adoption: Reality vs. Narrative

• Stablecoin Act as an Unlock (04:30–07:30):
  The passage of the Stablecoin Act (the "Genius Act") has catalyzed a quiet surge in institutional activity, though it's mostly contained within private, permissioned networks invisible to typical retail investors.
• Enterprise Blockchain as the Real Story:
  Blockchains are becoming invisible infrastructure for major companies:

  “Some big tech as well as JP Morgan, Coin, NYSE... working on tokenized settlements. Apollo... We’ve worked with them many times. They're here.” — John Wu (04:30) “The adoption is coming, but maybe not in the way we dreamed. It's become an enterprise technology in many ways.” — John Wu (06:13–07:30)

3. Clarity Act Collapse: Where Does That Leave Us?

• Legislation Gridlock (08:45–12:34):
  The expectation that the Clarity Act would quickly follow stablecoin regulation has been dashed, with the Senate split and bills from multiple committees (Finance and Agriculture) now needing reconciliation.

  “We're talking about 600 pages that have to be co-mingled... A lot of things are offsetting each other. It has to be reconciled before it gets reconciled with the House version.” — John Wu (09:58–10:45)

• Why Regulation Still Matters:
  Clarity is urgent to prevent talent and capital flight; regulated frameworks make the US a more attractive destination for innovators and investors.

  “Every American should care because this will bring clarity so that innovators and capital move to the US and back onshore.” — John Wu (12:05)

4. Hidden Adoption: Loyalty, Gaming, and Private Chains

• Loyalty and “Smart NFTs” (14:21–19:32):
  Ava Labs is working with major brands (FIFA, Cavaliers, Pistons, LSU) on loyalty programs powered by blockchain. These systems abstract blockchain from the end user, letting them interact directly with brands, reducing marketing costs, and deepening engagement.

  “FIFA is building a loyalty program on top of Avalanche... you can get your card, access to certain things, buy tickets when your team advances... Cavaliers have created millions in revenue they wouldn’t have without this.” — John Wu (14:21–16:39) “Loyalty programs on a blockchain have become a great CRM tool.” — John Wu (17:10)

• Invisible Adoption:
  Most of this enterprise adoption is not visible to the retail eye because it happens on private chains.

  “These are sometimes on private chains so the explorers can't easily capture it... the enterprises and definitely Wall Street, they need certain privacy for users.” — John Wu (18:08)

5. Web3 Gaming: The Real (but Quiet) Progress

• MapleStory and User-Created Content (20:37–22:49):
  Nexon's MapleStory, with over 200 million users, is moving to a private Avalanche L1, aiming for in-game economies and user-created content reminiscent of Roblox’s model.

  “They’re building a version of MapleStory on Avalanche… [users] creating new experiences in the game, not just a marketplace for assets.” — John Wu (20:37–22:49)

• Lessons from Early Hype:
  Both reflect on how prior hype was “just early”—we’re now at the hockey stick phase of real adoption following years of infrastructure building.

6. Competing Investment Channels & Market Maturation

• Crypto Company IPOs vs. Altcoins (24:01–28:39):
  IPOs like BitGo, EToro, and Circle give mainstream investors new options, which are competitive with (and in some ways cannibalistic of) direct altcoin investment because they’re institutionally accessible and structurally familiar.

  “A crossover person with a Schwab account still thinks a Circle or a BitGo is a far easier construction and better UI than what exists on-chain.” — John Wu (25:18)

• Maturing Industry Means Fewer Survivors:
  Expect rapid consolidation and failure among tokens and treasury companies, mirroring penny stocks in traditional markets. Functional utility and institutional “stamps of approval” will separate winners from losers.

7. What Will Spark the Next Bull Run?

• Bitcoin Leads, Regulatory Clarity as Catalyst (28:39–29:53):
  Prices follow adoption, but mass retail engagement requires a clear spark—likely from more regulatory clarity or consolidation of investible options, with Bitcoin as the lead indicator.

8. Digital Asset Treasuries: Bubble, Bust, and M&A

• Treasury Companies Must Adapt (30:49–34:25):
  The era of simply holding tokens is over; treasury companies will need to consolidate and build real businesses to survive.

  “You're going to see consolidation. The ones that survive are the ones that provide more value than just access to tokens.” — John Wu (30:55–32:35) “You're not just going to be able to buy the asset and wait.” — Scott Melker (33:31)

9. Real World Asset Tokenization: The Quiet Revolution

• Tokenizing Structured Products (34:30–36:22):
  Ava Labs is enabling the tokenization of CLOs and mortgage-backed securities for smaller banks, democratizing access to securitization previously limited to major financial institutions.

  “Regional and community banks have the ability to access and securitize loans like the big boys... real use cases where people benefit from that.” — John Wu (35:00–36:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The adoption is coming. But maybe it hasn’t come in the way we dreamed. It’s become an enterprise technology in many ways.” — John Wu (07:25)
• “Everyone talked about institutional adoption… I have news for everyone, they’re here—but maybe not in the way crypto people envisioned.” — John Wu (05:51)
• “600 pages that have to be co-mingled together… A lot of things are offsetting each other. It has to be reconciled first before even gets reconciled with the House version.” — John Wu (10:45)
• “It’s natural human psychology… We always think things will happen fast and they don’t. But when they do, they go hockey stick.” — Scott Melker (22:49)
• “Only 1 in 1,000 penny stocks survives. I think that’s a pretty good preview of what’s likely to happen in the altcoin market.” — Scott Melker (27:02)
• “You’re not just going to be able to buy the asset and wait.” — Scott Melker (33:31)
• “Prices will inevitably follow the adoption, for the few things that are justified in going up.” — Scott Melker (36:50)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Market Sentiment Post-10/10 Bust: 01:40–03:39
• Stablecoin Act’s Effects: 04:30–07:30
• Institutional Adoption in Practice: 05:51–08:07
• Collapse of Clarity Act Talks: 08:45–12:58
• Why Regulation Matters: 12:05–12:58
• Enterprise Loyalty/Smart NFTs (FIFA, Cavaliers): 14:21–18:08
• Hidden Enterprise Adoption: 18:08–19:32
• Web3 Gaming – MapleStory Example: 20:37–22:49
• Crypto IPOs vs Altcoin Investment: 24:01–28:39
• Market Consolidation, 'Survival Rate' Analogy: 27:02–27:49
• Digital Asset Treasury Models & Future: 30:49–34:25
• Tokenized Real-World Assets: 34:30–36:22

Conclusion

Scott and John offer a rare, nuanced look behind crypto’s headlines—chronicling a period where price action and legislative gridlock have masked dramatic gains in adoption and institutional integration. They reveal how blockchain is seeing “hockey stick” growth not in public markets, but in private, enterprise, and infrastructural contexts that will ultimately set the stage for the next visible bull run. Above all, their message is clear: keep your eyes on what’s really being built.