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- [00:01]
A
According to legendary trader Peter Brandt, Bitcoin is likely going to the 58,000 area, which has long been talked about as the 200 moving average on the weekly chart. Did this recent failure at 98,000 and dropping back below 94 or 5 really signal that we're going that low? We're going to talk about that. But also, of course, all of the news that is currently driving this absolutely insanely boring, ridiculous market. I've got Tillman and Andrew here to bail out and actually make this interesting. Let's go.
- [00:35]
B
Let's do. Let's do.
- [00:50]
A
Ladies and gentle gentlemen, welcome. We are broadcasting here live from the Oval Office. I've got my presidential hoodie and jacket on today because I have a very important announcement regarding Greenland and tariffs that I'd like to discuss with you. I don't want to do it alone. I'm going to bring on Tillman and Andrew here because, guys, this is important. There's a letter that I would like to read that was sent from myself, President Trump, in my hoodie, to the Prime Minister of Norway. And it's really important. I would like you guys to listen to this letter because as president, I think this may be the most articulate, compelling argument that I've probably ever made about anything in history. So I'm gonna bring it up right there so people can read it. Dear Jonas, considering your country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars plus, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America. Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China. And why do they have a right of ownership anyway? There are no written documents. It's only that a boat landed there a couple hundred years ago. Hundreds of years ago, we had boats landing there. Also, I have done more for NATO than any other person since its founding. And now NATO should do something for the United States. The world is not secure unless we have complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President G. J.T. guys. What? If you're wondering why bitcoin apparently has dropped and why people are expecting a bad day for markets today, well, it's because we've thrown some tariff threats. If we don't get to just take control of Greenland.
- [02:35]
B
The shifting sands of the political scene. Oh, man, it's like the clarity Act. It's. It's. There is no clarity. There is no acting. We. Yeah, I. I honestly, I have not seen that letter. That's very surprising. It is pretty good.
- [02:54]
A
It's run on sentences.
- [02:56]
B
Well, I will tell you, I've been getting a lot of joy this, this week. Of all the AI Trump writing like woolly mammoths into Greenland. It's, it's great. I mean, I don't, I don't know what's going to happen. It's above my pay grade. I'm just a bitcoiner and just, you know, studying crypto.
- [03:17]
A
All jokey aside, it's, it's fun to scroll but like it obviously is having a meaningful effect on markets. When all of this was announced is when sort of we saw the rally stifled, I guess I can't say that is why or why not what the technicals would have said. But you know, when you do stuff like this, you know, Trump says he will 100% carry out Greenland tariff threats as EU vows to protect affect its interests. We're back to tariff wars again, right? And we know that every time that happens and markets hate uncertainty. It happens threatening are basically our biggest NATO allies with additional 10%. And then it goes up to like 24 if it's not done a month later, if they just don't hand over Greenland, which to be honest feels like it's where America and that should be ours.
- [04:01]
B
Well, I will say, in my opinion, the markets is too broad. We still see silver just smashing new highs this morning. I think silver is actually a shining example of people who. Yeah, yeah, you saw that shining example of how a market can be suppressed for 40 years and then it finally comes, you know, it comes to light that the scarcity is really the thing that everyone should be paying attention to. So you look at AI and you look at the solar panels and the EVs that we're going to be building and manufacturing over the next decade and the need for silver. And if you then start looking at battery technology and kind of what the next iteration of lithium ion or what, what is the orders of magnitude leap that we take to the next level. They have that, but they require a lot of silver. And so you, you see a natural law of scarcity driving price. And what's unique about this is that for 40 years, paper price and physical price have been one in the same. They have been disjointed for the last, I don't know how many days, 30 days or whatever.
- [05:20]
A
And the mint had to literally pause minting silver right now because of the repricing and the rapid volatility. So that speaks volumes.
- [05:30]
B
Well, here's my punchline before I get too lengthy and the silver bug part of me. But here's the punchline. There is no substitute for the physical. Everyone that's been in the silver market for 40 years knows that because of the manipulation. And so bitcoiners should take a page out of their playbook and learn from their mistakes as it pertains to really like we've said this since day one, but if it's not your keys, not your crypto, but you know, self custody, the, the, the, the physical right of ownership and possession is a big deal. And, and I think that's what's driving the price of silver up. And I think ultimate, ultimately that's what's going to drive the price of bitcoin up. And I think bitcoin is a lot more scarce and, and is not, you know, there's, there's not, there's a lot more silver in reserves than bitcoin in reserves. So one would think that ultimately we will find our day in the sun with this type of an event where there is no substitute for holding physical and everyone's clamoring for it and everyone's looking at two different prices. And I actually have been saying this for probably two years, Andrew, I yell at him about it all the time, but this is an inevitability, right? Why? Well, because there's two separate markets. They both offer distinct advantages and disadvantages and they're both priced at the same price. Explain that to me. Holding physical bitcoin in cold storage offers advantages and disadvantages. Holding ETFs in your brokerage account offers advantages, disadvantages, one's physical, one's paper. There's the same price they shouldn't be and we're seeing that in silver now. So the question will be, is when we see that unhinge event in bitcoin and when will people in large quantities go, you know what? I've got to own bitcoin and I have to own it physically and not in the form of paper.
- [07:33]
A
So before you jump in, I'd like to hear more about how Tillman yells at you all the time. That's what he just said.
- [07:41]
C
Yeah, there's a, there's a backstory there.
- [07:46]
B
How long should we let him talk on you before we tell him?
- [07:51]
A
He's not on mute till then. So you got, I can't hear.
- [07:53]
B
Okay, I gotta bail out and get back in.
- [07:55]
C
Yeah, when it does happen, it, it's, they're real and they're, it's spectacular, let's put it that way. So, yeah, I, I don't give A about Greenland. And I'm gonna.
- [08:10]
A
There's 12 people that just heard that who have listened here ever from Greenland. They're never gonna listen to me again. Yeah.
- [08:17]
C
So I don't give a. About Greenland. Most people don't. The interesting thing is that everything in the media with Trump is a crisis. Nothing under Biden was a crisis. And so, you know, that's what my filter is. Right. So real quick pivot that I thought was interesting yesterday, but I didn't have time to tweet about it. Fed independence, by the way. So the Fed chair is going to be attending the Supreme Court hearing on whether or not, you know, a person gets to keep their job on the, on the Fed board. So independence. Right. That's more important what the Fed is doing, where interest rates are going, inflows in and out of, of Bitcoin ETFs. That's, that's uniquely more important than anything having to do with Greenland. I'll continue to say it as, as often as I possibly can. You know, the Bitcoin market has materially changed even in just the last six months because of the scale of options activity, the scale of increased futures activity, and the scale of, you know, the bitcoin spot. Bitcoin ETF space, the paper Bitcoin.
- [09:34]
B
Right. Paper leveraged Bitcoin products.
- [09:37]
C
Those three particular level levers uniquely control the price of Bitcoin. Now, it can't be disputed. Just go look at the volume in any way that you want to look at volume on any exchange, anywhere from 9, 30 to 4, there's meaningful volume after 4 o'. Clock. They're just not, I mean, they're just flat out. Is not it. Nose dives. So we're in a different spot where 2023 and 2024, we saw better than 100% returns in Bitcoin. I, I don't know if that's going to be the case in 2026. Could we see a 40 to 45 rise in Bitcoin? Yeah, I think that's reasonable. I think that could happen and would make some sense. But I don't, I don't see us in a world where we, you know, we, we turbo, you know, pump another 145% this year. I just, the, the structures of how Bitcoin works, who's frankly in charge now, has changed. I mean, it's changed now. The reality is the volatility to the downside has also been materially adjusted and changed. Right.
- [10:49]
A
So we got to go down 90% in this, this brutal bear market even though we never even doubled.
- [10:56]
C
Exactly right. So what's the talk on crypto Twitter? Bear market, bear market, bear market, bear market. Half the guess you have on are, you know, they're having smart conversations about we are actually are in a bear market of, of bitcoin, which is hilarious, right? We're down, let's call it 30%. And that, that, that, that feels nothing like a bear market versus previous cycles. Like it's kind of laugh out loud funny compared to previous cycles. So just like Tillman talked about their advantages to self custody and advantages to etf, there are advantages and disadvantages to the change in the structure of how bitcoin moves and who frankly is controlling the price. So that the downside is much more limited. I, I don't think we get anywhere near 58K, you know, over the next three to six months.
- [11:52]
B
The fact that that number is now on the tip of everyone's tongue makes me think we're going to 136. I think the exact opposite of what I hear as mainstream in the crypto space. Because that's what the markets are designed to do, right? Designed to whipsaw to be fair.
- [12:09]
A
Like I'm not saying we're going to 58. I don't think. I do think it's structurally changed. I don't believe in the four year cycle anymore. But when you take a look at a bitcoin chart with very limited data points, every time you break the 50 ma on the weekly to the downside, that's the bear market, you go up and retest it, which means we should go to 100, we got to 98. And then you go back down to the 200 ma, that's down around 58. And Peter shows this kind of bear flag and listen, this guy invented technical analysis and that's the area. But then he goes, listen, I'm wrong 50% of the time and don't troll me when I'm wrong. And that's what somebody who's looking at a chart and trying to predict the future should say. But to your point, this is becoming, or has been even for the past few months, a pretty common part of the narrative. Ever since we topped in October, which was when you're supposed to top for the four year cycle, people started talking about, you know, this 50 retrace.
- [13:01]
C
Well those price levels are previous cycle type of thinking, right? That, that, that's he's looking at quote unquote historical charts and like okay, what's this history? Tell me. And based on that, what Can I reasonably expect to potentially happen maybe 50 of the time in the future? Right. That's all great. All I would do is I would slap Larry Fink's face on that tweet and then I just walk away. Right? Because you know, the, the evangelization is not going to stop this dip. They're not going to stop talking about it. They're not going to stop telling all of their hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of institutional clients to stop allocating to bitcoin. They're, they're not going to do that. They're going to keep telling people to put money into their best and biggest and most profitable product. Right. So sure, that's just one lever, but that is a huge lever that is effectively the floor underneath bitcoin price.
- [14:02]
B
I look at market, you listen, everybody has to pick their poison. But the way in which you pick it, you should be really dedicated to it. So you're either a technical guy or you're a fundamental guy. But I try not to blur those lines. That's my opinion. Take it or leave it. But you know, technically, there's a lot of times in markets where the fundamentals look unbelievable. But the macro world economic environment proves that the technicals get broken and they still have the fundamentals win is the bottom line. And so I don't, I don't really look at technicals the way that I used to in my, in my younger days. I look at them, you know, to confirm what the fundamentals have already told me. And that may, here's the bottom line with technicals and technical trading. It's a lot more exciting than fundamental trading. Fundamental trading is boring. You get in when no one's looking at it. Technicals are exciting because everyone's looking at it and they're all looking at seemingly the same thing. And interpreting those charts have, have become really easy with AI and tools. So there's a lot of people out there that think they're technical traders and that they're geniuses. Well, that's a perfect setup. When fundamentals are very strong, if you can break technicals, then what does that do? It creates a lot of fear and people start ignoring the fundamentals. And that allows big corporations and big people who haven't had the last 17 years to accumulate Bitcoin. A time to accumulate. It's shifting it from weak hands to strong hands, you know, weak holders to strong buyers. And that is the shift in the market that we're seeing, you know, being controlled by paper. And that's okay, that that means they love our, our asset and they want more of it and they want to accumulate it. But don't be fooled just because a price drops below a number on a, on a screen. If you really understood what drove price directionally, you wouldn't care, I promise. Because it's, it's not a true indication of a buyer and seller. It may be an indication of the lack of one of the two. But that doesn't mean that there's a huge amount of sellers on the other side and that doesn't mean there's a huge amount of buyers on the other side. It just means that there's a lopside, there's a lopsided ratio as it pertains to those two metrics. And, and you know, if you live and die on that sword, great, do it. And, but it's a, it's a tough way to make a living. And you can ask Chris Nancy out.
- [16:39]
C
That there's still a seismic difference between the world of crypto and the world of traditional finance when it comes to price. So go check out coin market cap. And what are the default price points? 1 hour, 24 hour and 7 day. Those are the default percentages they're going to give you on all, all crypto moves, right? Whereas in the world of traditional finance, go go look at an ETF, go go to vanguard.com and start looking at it. There is no seven day, it's one year, three year, five year 10, year 10. Sorry. Those are the metrics that they look at, right? They don't look at the one hour move or etf. Nobody looks at that, right? That, that, that is putting meaningful capital into those products. Just like with BlackRock and their iShares brand, right? Nobody is taking a look at the, the one hour on, on those deals. So it's, there's such a huge disconnect like we can talk about 58 to whatever, you know, whatever's going on there. And again, just the bearish sentiment, that bearish sentiment is based on literally one week, two weeks, one month type of thinking in the, the crypto space, whereas in the world of traditional finance that, that, that doesn't even cross people's minds. The only way they think about a month, right, Is okay, how much am I, am I auto buying of these products every month? Right. Kind of disassociated from price and price movements. How much am I depositing into my account this month from my bank account, which I always do every month and let's take a look at it every six months.
- [18:23]
B
So, well, you're always to, to your point, Andrew, I mean even it ties to the comment that I was making. Technically, if you want to confirm your technical bias as this being a bare market or a breakdown, you have to confirm that on the macro. You have to confirm it on the max. Zoom out is the bottom line. Like, go look at the bitcoin chart. The, from the beginning of time. It doesn't look bearish, I promise you. In fact, it looks insanely bullish. And that' Andrew's point is, is like those guys are looking at that chart. They're not looking at the, the three month.
- [18:58]
A
They, they don't care on the 15 minute.
- [19:03]
B
He's looking at, he's looking at the three month chart, the 15 minute bars. That's, that's, that's.
- [19:08]
A
He wrote about it in his annual letter.
- [19:11]
C
Well, again, we, you know, the, the images that, that come to us in the crypto space is like, you know, the FTX guys or you know, crypto hedge funds and they're sitting on bean bags, they got 47 screens and they don't sleep. Right? Because that, that this is the world that we live in that's just so disassociated from reality where, where all of the sizable inflows into Bitcoin are now happening. Right. It, it, it really is something, you know, why is, why is Brian Armstrong and Coinbase have such a big contingent in Davos at the World Economic Forum? It's because they're now meaningfully tethered to organizations as the custodian. Right? The, their business of scale in terms of total assets associated with Coinbase is now heavily skewed toward being the custodian for I think 8 out of 11 spot ETFs. Right. They're part of the club now. They got to attend these things because their buddies that they're watching their, you know, huge amounts of bitcoin, they're all going to the, to the same meetings. So you know, Coinbase, in exchange it, you know, and, and you can, you can trade Pepe Coin or whatever on, on Coinbase, but that's not where their business is. Their business is standing next to the blackrock and making sure they're bitcoins.
- [20:35]
A
And yeah, I mean, to your point, like Brian Armstrong certainly over in Davos right now, you know, lobbying for market structure.
- [20:42]
C
Sure. Well, he, he wants Coinbase's version of market structure. What is Coinbase's version of market structure? It's heavily skewed towards, you know, yield on stable coins. Right.
- [20:56]
B
Brian wants clarity on what they're actually already doing.
- [21:00]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's why people, the quiet part out loud is that Coinbase blocking clarity and clarity not happenings means we be default back to what genius already passed that the banks don't want would actually help Brian Armstrong. And I'm not saying this in a negative way at all, but Coinbase is doing the thing they want to do right now, and they don't want it taken away. So of course they would block it if the thing they're doing might be taken away.
- [21:24]
B
Correct. But.
- [21:27]
C
That Coinbase owns an enormous amount of Circle. Right. So, you know, Circle is just a stablecoin company. So in the same way that, you know, crypto, Twitter is pissed off at JP Morgan for making 25 billion bucks in net interest income, you know, in any given quarter and not paying that out to depositors, Coinbase, you know, for all intents and purposes, kind of doing the same thing within their own ecosystem, making enormous amounts of, of dollars on, on deposits as well. Just go, you know, look at their.
- [21:58]
B
Trading and trading fees. The trading fees and crypto have been insane for the last 15 years. I mean, just insane on exchanges that you pay, you know, 10x what you pay in traditional markets and it's gotten better over time. But to your point, it has been a, you know, they're some of the most profitable companies over the last 10 years for sure.
- [22:16]
C
And it's trading fees, you know, whatever they do with them. Here's the thing, like, if people are like, I'm bored with crypto now. So for two quarters, they, they trade half as much as they did before. Trading fees borderline don't matter. It's that interest income, that custodial income.
- [22:33]
B
That stuff, it doesn't matter. Also because your trading fees go down based upon your trading activity. So you're in the highest tiered bracket or highest price t. You cut your volume in half, then you're getting charged more is the point. So you're paying the same amount regardless. They're going to get their money, is your point. And I, I couldn't agree more. I just think it's funny that we think from the US we're going to legislate the world on technology that's not hypothetical, that's actually being used all over the world right now, and Coinbase just happens to be using it as well. But, you know, it's, it's something that we have to get ahead of. We are the innovators, you know, of the world. We are the folks that are supposed to be the drivers of, you know, growth and innovation and technology and all of those things. So, you know, it's one of those things where we've already, the cat's already out of the bag. It's, it's insane to try to think that we can put it back in based upon sitting in a room somewhere and, and, you know, and shouting at each other and disagreeing and arguing about things that don't really matter because the technology wins. It's no different than how many people at the beginning of your Bitcoin journey were talking about the fact that, you know, what if the government shuts down Bitcoin? And then that narrative, like, captured the imagination of a lot of people and people literally thought that the government could shut down Bitcoin. Well, then they found out that it can't be shut down. It's not shut. It's permissionless, censorshipless. Like you can't. Those are the intrinsic values that it carries in its technological code. Well, now, you know, we're going to have a nude object lesson. And the object lesson is you can't prevent people from paying yield on deposits. And whether it's defi. Whether it's central exchanges, whether it's brokerage accounts, look at them all, they're all doing the same thing. There's a real simple solution, I don't understand around the interest piece of this, and they're almost already doing it. So I don't know why it's such a far leap and why people aren't talking about it, but why don't you just cap it? Why don't you make the same appropriated interest rate, you know, essentially a maximum interest rate that they both charge and then, you know, or they both pay and then there's no competitive advantage other than the backbone of the technology and the assets that they offer on their platform. And right now, if you go on Coinbase, don't quote me on this, but I think their USDC yield is 3.25% or 3,5%, and that's exactly what JP Morgan's high net worth private banking interest rate is on deposits. So there's no. What are we arguing about? You can't pay on deposits. If I take US Dollars and convert them in the usdc. The argument is that you shouldn't be able to earn interest on those deposits. That's insane. They're already doing it. Everyone's doing it. They just haven't done it to the least of these. They haven't done it to the masses. They've done it for JP Morgan. Private high Net worth, folks. Well, it's time. The only thing that's changing here is Coinbase is offering it to people who have ten grand in their Coinbase account, which is a good thing. And we should be able to agree that, you know, lowering the barriers of entry and allowing people to experience the freedom of creating yield or making money on their money versus on the sweat of their brow, that's something that just as an educational piece we should be teaching our nation and our people.
- [26:11]
A
Oh, you're saying we should have financial education?
- [26:14]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly.
- [26:16]
A
I know. I mean, US crypto regulation stalls as lawmakers warn of falling behind global competitors. For years I ranted about this all last week, but this is. I mean, we can talk about the semantics of how we should be able to earn yields and all the things Coinbase doing. This thing is not happening anytime soon, in my very humble opinion. It's like.
- [26:35]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [26:36]
A
I feel like now we're having, like, a very important theoretical argument about how things should be. But I'm telling you right now, like, I don't believe that our government is getting this done. I don't think that the Democrat, even if they solve all the stablecoin and yield parts, like, there's just no way the Democrats are passing a Clarity act that doesn't have a provision that stops Trump from participating in crypto. And there's no way he's signing a bill that the Democrats would want that says the Trumps need to stop.
- [27:01]
C
Yeah, it's a poison pill. It's poison pill. You don't get anything done, quote, unquote, in good faith. Good faith, by the way, doesn't exist anymore in politics in D.C. it's a poison pill. It's, you know, I said, I don't know, Monday or Tuesday of last week, like, the Clarity act is just dead. Like, it's, it was obvious to most people. It's obvious to you and I, like, I mean, what are we even talking about here? And so, yeah, we default back to where we are and that's not going to change. It's certainly not going to change for the next two or three years. We get a different administration here and they want to peel everything back and go scorched earth. Well, we'll see, you know, we'll see in three years what that looks like.
- [27:46]
A
I can't believe we're back to this. You know.
- [27:50]
B
We'Re not, though. You know, the world keeps turning and it's the technology wins again. Pull up the Max Bitcoin chart and tell Me whether bitcoin cares or not and it doesn't, you know, it's at 90,000, $91,000 today, guys.
- [28:07]
A
Bitcoin doesn't, but fart coin does.
- [28:11]
B
Well, pick your poison, buddy.
- [28:14]
A
But the funny thing is it's not fartcoin that does. It's actually like number 17 layer one that maybe had a chance. It is just not going to happen. You know what I mean? Like coin 37 on coin market cap. I don't know what that is.
- [28:29]
C
Yeah, we can have a conversation about where, where is the totality of crypto, let's call it in five years because you know, the nyse, the nasdaq, all sorts of, of financial rails and, and, and, and the like are, are moving.
- [28:47]
A
Towards, you know, big time 47365 for New York State.
- [28:52]
C
Right. So, so you know, I, I said yesterday like the NYSE is the neat little headline for this but you know, the NYSE is owned by Intercontinental Exchange that owns like however many exchange clearinghouses all across the globe.
- [29:08]
A
All those guys are like making waves in Minnesota right now.
- [29:12]
C
Yeah. So you know, this is between the NASDAQ and, and an intercontinental exchange that, that basically covers everything, that covers all exchanges in the, in the world of tradfi. So it's just happening faster than we thought it would happen. But of interest, you know, they're not, they're also not making announcements that we're going to be building all of this on Solana anywhere that's not anywhere in the, in the, in the, the press releases. Right. So you know, some commentary yesterday that I thought was interesting was like okay, to your point Scott, where do the other 17 layer ones or whatever that's not going to be used for any of this stuff. Where does that go? Right? What, what, what are the ways that, that we go to 247 tokenized type securities? Do we even know what they're, how they're going to be traded and what quote unquote layer one is going to be be used? Right. They, they could come up with an entirely brand new one if they want. And okay, that's the one that we're Chain, DTCC chain.
- [30:20]
A
Although. Yeah, I mean now they're working right now. Yes, that's my concern is that we don't capture any of that value as, you know, retail investors.
- [30:27]
C
Well, I mean again, you know, these are folks have been doing a long time. These are folks that have had a difficulty with margins over an extended period of time. The reason why Intercontinental Exchange owns 9 million exchanges and custody houses and futures and all that stuff is because their margins are literally you. You can't squint tight enough to be able to see their margins. Right. So this is the first time in a long time they're like, wait a minute, we can create some stuff. Everybody's excited about it 24 7. And we can make, we can make an extra buck. Yeah, let's do that. It will be really interesting to see what comes of that. And why are the likes of Citadel and BlackRock wanting to create a competing exchange in that 24. 7 trading tokenized space in Texas? Why aren't they just cool using the Rails that are being built by Intercontinental Exchange and nasdaq? Why? Well, I assume that there's a profit motive somewhere in that particular question slash narrative.
- [31:32]
B
Well, I think you need both pieces to make the puzzle work. I think you, you need a lot of expertise in, in crypto in order to have instant settlement, which is required for 247 activity. And if you're going to run a 247 exchange, you better get your wallet out because you're going to be paying a lot of people to sit behind desks and process things through the middle of the night and at a very high wage. It's not going to be a profitable exchange. You're going to lose money. What's the answer to that? Well, instant settlement with smart contracts is the answer to that. That allows them to make money 24 7. Like Andrew saying, it's, it's a, it's a profit motive here. They're not going to give up on that. They've seen the light. That's why at some level, they're mesmerized and enamored by Brian Armstrong. And at some level, they're pissed he's on stage with them. And guess what? That's not going to stop. And I just see this as a slowing of the Brian while they accelerate so that hopefully they can meet in the middle with as little damage from a customer evacuation perspective as possible. And, you know, it's damage control at its finest. It's like, let's triage the most important things that we can get done in the little time that we have to do it. Because with the Trump administration, there was such an open floodgate of technology coming to market. You know, remember at the beginning of, like, his term, there was a new headline every day, like five headlines every day, like the five of the major things happening in our space that were being announced. Well, that was just pinned up, you know, development that had, that had come to market. Well, I Think that scared a lot of big banks. They're like, holy smokes. We thought. We didn't think we were behind the curve. Now we know we're five laps behind them. Like, we've been lapped five times by little companies like Uphold. Uphold knows more about the future of finance than we do. And I think that they have to slow it down as much as they can, full well knowing that they're going to be adopters and. Or quote, you know, market participants at some point. And. And I think that's. That's just what's happening. And I think that it's strategic and it's about, you know, capturing or maintaining as much market share as you can get. And it. It's smart, but you can't stop it. It's a train. That's it. It's already. It's left the station. It's gone. You cannot stop. 24. Seven markets have to be based on crypto. You heard it here first. Have you heard of this thing called blockchain, by the way?
- [34:16]
A
Things that are unstoppable. Strategy has acquired 22,305 Bitcoin.
- [34:20]
C
2 billion bucks.
- [34:22]
A
Oh, wasn't he, like, at one point? It was like 1.2 last week. This is all. I'm assuming this is because STRC went absolutely wild last week and yes, it did. Printing money to buy bitcoin. But first of all, like, you think that maybe this would make prices higher.
- [34:40]
B
You would think.
- [34:43]
A
Who sold 22, 305 Bitcoin to Michael Saylor last week? My God, $2 billion. That's $3.4 billion in the past two weeks.
- [34:55]
C
Yeah.
- [34:56]
B
That was the most interesting thing that I've heard on a podcast this year was your interview with Bailey when he said there we could see lower prices if the selling came from one of three people. Well, I. I need to know that information. Get him back on the horn. I want to know who those three people are, and I want to investigate whether they're the sellers or not. We need that. We need. People want to know a lot. That's a lot of bitcoin. That's a lot of bitcoin.
- [35:28]
A
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I bought a little bitcoin using Arch Public. You know what, though, to be honest, of late, I've bought a lot more Solana because the dips are bigger. We're right on that cusp right now where I'm getting the slightly large enough dip on Solana, but not quite on bitcoin. But bitcoin buys every Sunday for me with the intelligence algorithms. And we did catch a long last week above, below actually where price is right now. So I'm not.
- [35:55]
B
And so, and that's what you would anticipate and that's what you would actually want out of Solana versus Bitcoin is right. More volatility. That's the reason why you would want to trade it is to have more triggered events because that creates more yield or, or creates more profits. The, the key, the key is, is to just manage the cash that you're placing into those trigger events so that it's healthy in proportion to your Bitcoin holdings and your, the rest of your investment strategy. And you know, you can meet with a certified investment advisor about those types of things. But yeah, it's all about being allocated, right. How, what percentage of your allocation is in Solana and are you comfortable with the rate at which that's accelerating through this period? And if you're not, then you can slow it down very easily with the software.
- [36:42]
A
So, yeah, I just love waking up and saying that I bought stuff.
- [36:47]
B
Well, I know you do. I'm just saying I'm, I'm giving a deep dive into the flexibility of the software and the fact that you know at any point in time you're gonna have what you would, why you would play a Solana strategy is because it has more volatility, just like Scott said. So when you have these major or dips, you're going to have trigger events on more volatile coins where you won't have trigger events on some of the more, you know, stable ones.
- [37:11]
A
Like two things on that. So obviously I've been running this. Robinhood have shown it a thousand times. Robinhood now for the API has lowered their big time to 3 bips. I was paying it higher because originally they didn't have it worked out for the API. We literally made Robinhood change their entire API spread. Now you pay almost nothing to run this on Robinhood, which is absolutely incredible because even when I was hitting the volume tiers, I wasn't getting down to this level.
- [37:43]
C
By the way, a, a moment to talk about philosophically. We just talked about 247 markets happening. If you think that automation, algorithmic automation across traditional markets, it's between 77 and 80% of all trades that happen in traditional markets happen algorithmically. That number is going to go up when we go to 247 trading. Right. Or else you've got to hire an entirely new set of people to do the midnight shift at the New York stock exchange. Slash NASDAQ, slash yay.
- [38:18]
A
24 7. All our hedge fund.
- [38:22]
B
We made a joke, Andrew and I, behind closed doors and I don't think he would, he would set in us making or saying it publicly. But we were thinking, we were playing this out mentally. We were like, can you imagine how expensive Jeff park would be in the overnight shift at one of those exchanges? I don't want to see that contract because the reality is, is you, you couldn't pay people that you would want running those types of outfits.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah, I mean algorithmic, there's no way.
- [38:55]
B
They have to.
- [38:55]
C
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a reason why Jeff is the CIO at POP Steel. Right. Chief Investment Officer. He's making the decisions on when they buy and how they buy. But Jeff also sleeps.
- [39:07]
A
No.
- [39:07]
C
Right. So he can't, he can't be making decisions while he sleeps unless there's automation involved. So that the, the concept, the movement here, certainly the movement with Arch Public and the amount of customers that have become a part of our ecosystem in the last year and a half, that's only going to grow and grow and grow. We go to 247 markets now. It's not just, hey, Arch Public automation is handling the crypto stuff that I do. But you know, we're going to be in a place where we can also handle your equities and debt exposure too because all of it's going to be 24 7. And your financial advisor, God bless him, you know, the guy can't work 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It's impossible. It's absolutely impossible. So you have to get comfortable with tools. You have to begin working with tools because this is, this is the way that the world is going to be in two years.
- [40:02]
B
Well, and look at the tools as an extension of your will. When you're asleep or when you're out doing something that you don't, you know, want to be sitting in front of your computer and trading. It's, it's an extension of yourself. It's, it's a user based protocol. So you literally can define whatever parameters that you want to see happen. And when you're away from your computer, if the market gives you those parameters, they will, that event will take place. And that's the point of automation. A lot of the most common, you know, testimonials, if you will, that we get from customers is, oh man, I had no idea when you guys were talking about automation that it was this in their mind, they thought it was like a magic potion, you know, a Bot that they used in the Forex markets to trade. You know, it's not. It's a very customizable toolbox that allows you to create your will and what you want to have happen when there's no emotion, no stress, the market's not ticking. And then you set those parameters and you walk away. And then when you're asleep or if you're at the gym or whatever, those parameters are now a part of your strategy and you're not sitting there having to monitor it. So it's a real game changer in terms of freeing up your time and freeing up the emotion attached to training. And it will, you know, take a larger percentage of. Of crypto, specifically. But all markets, I don't think retails really understood what their advantage is until they try it. And that's why we've offered our product free, so that people can try it.
- [41:40]
C
The pace and speed of 24 hour trading and tokenization. I'll just give you five people. So Jamie Dimon's talking about it, Larry Fink's talking about it, the NASDAQ's talking about it, the NYC is talking about it. And the chairman of the SEC won't shut up about it, Right? I don't know. I mean, that's game over, right? It will and is happening, period. End story.
- [42:04]
A
And they're taking a page, by the way, that we're not getting the Clarity act, because I don't know if you guys saw. But one of the sticking points for Brian Armstrong, not called Yield, which we know is all the main one, he said that there was language added to block tokenized securities. And I had Jake Jervinsky on last week, who's literally the lobbyist pushing for this thing on Capitol Hill. And he said they snuck that in in the last two weeks.
- [42:28]
C
Yeah.
- [42:28]
A
So no, no trading of tokenized securities.
- [42:33]
C
To neuter the sec. Right. That somehow the SEC needs to be less involved in the entirety of the.
- [42:40]
A
Meanwhile, Atkins has been like, nothing's a security. We don't care. Send it to the cftc. I don't want to even talk about this crap. Less. We need less. I miss Gary Gensler.
- [42:52]
C
No, no, you don't. No, you haven't.
- [42:55]
A
I said this, but like in wwe, you know, like, you need to heal.
- [42:59]
C
You gotta have a building.
- [43:01]
A
A bad guy. We have too many good guys. We need a bad guy.
- [43:04]
C
That guy was uniquely a villain. Not only the way that he talked about crypto, but he just. The way that he looked, man, the way that he, you know, bald and you know, just looked like, hey, easy. Yeah, yeah, he's just, he had a. What's the guy on the Simpsons?
- [43:21]
A
You know, Mr. Burns, I'm literally doing.
- [43:23]
C
Yeah, there we go.
- [43:24]
A
I'm doing here.
- [43:25]
C
Excellent. So, yeah, you're right that we need to have a villain. Maybe that's why, you know, but it's.
- [43:33]
B
Just so stupid, guys. Why in the world I did not know that. Why would they not want tokenized equities? I mean, and, and is Vlad not. Stop. We've got Robin Hood doing that already. We've got Coinbase doing it. We've got that. That's already being done. You.
- [43:49]
A
Do they really think they're kind of doing it in like a weird way? And I'm not saying that like sarcastically, like, you know, like Robinhood. Nobody's doing it, like with compliance for every stock in the United States and somebody has to custody it, they can tokenize it. It's not the same as like creating.
- [44:06]
B
But just imagine a world where people are allowed by simply using a VPN, to have access to all of this technology. And so it'd be a world where they outlawed cars when cars were invented. Yet half of your town were driving cars to work and the other half were going, why are we horse and buggy in this? This is rough. And you see guys out there putting horseshoes on their horses and stopping and feeding them and giving them water. And you're whipping by in your Model A, you're honking your horn like, come on. You're not putting the technology back in the bag is the point. You can't stop this. And the Internet is open for everyone to use. And so all you're going to do is limit the rule followers from participating. That's all you're going to do. You're just hurting the people who care enough about what you say to not do it. And the rest of the people are going to use it. Just no different than the point that I made earlier of like, right when Trump got into office, you saw eight years of innovation go curse splat on the desk. Those people didn't stop innovating during Biden's term. Like, they, they, they were still out there innovating. They just moved to other countries and did it. And so is that the world we want? Are we, do we want Americans to be the only ones changing horseshoes and feeding bail, you know, buckets to our.
- [45:37]
A
Million dollar horses to the glue factory?
- [45:42]
B
It's hilarious. I just think it's funny again that people can sit in a room and think that they can stop Natural law. People want this. And I think they're all talking about 24. 7 markets and talking about instant settlement and talking about crypto because it's apparent that the people have spoken and no different than us. There's nothing special to us other than we get on here once a week and talk about something that everyone wants to. To talk about. Right. And including us. That's why we do it. It's selfish. They've just joined the party and they're never going to leave, I promise. Because once you taste the. Once you. Once you're honking your horn at the horses in your Model A on the way to work, you're not going back to riding horses. I. I can assure you.
- [46:30]
A
No. So many. We dropped so many analogies and metaphors on this show. Yeah, I was looking at the greatest heels of all time.
- [46:40]
B
I'm just trying to provide some clarity to the clarity act, Scott.
- [46:43]
A
So I apologize. Cerebral Assassin as number one. I found kind of.
- [46:48]
C
Oh, Triple H. Oh, Triple H. Oh, okay.
- [46:53]
A
You know, whatever.
- [46:55]
C
I was never much of a WWF or WWE guy.
- [46:59]
A
I even know about the Million dollar man, Ted DiBiase.
- [47:02]
C
Oh, yeah, I'm aware. I'm aware because I had a friend whose father was very, very committed to watching those shows on a weekly basis.
- [47:10]
A
It's real.
- [47:12]
C
Yeah, of course it is.
- [47:13]
A
Of course it's real.
- [47:16]
B
Back when NIL was not allowed, one of the perks of playing on the UT football team was that the Rock, Dwayne Johnson, would come in and work out in our weight room, and he. He somehow got us to one of the events in Austin. That was the one event that I ever went to. And I will say that it was. If you go with a bunch of your football buddies, it's a. It's a good time. It was a. It was a lot of fun. Oh, yeah. The last time, though, that I ever paid attention to WWE was when it was wwf.
- [47:49]
A
When. Before the Wildlife. WWE till, like, last week.
- [47:55]
B
Macho Man, Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan. Those were the. That's the peak of the WWF before the World Wildlife Federation sued them.
- [48:06]
A
You know who I saw a. You know who I saw at a bar last month in Tampa? The Nature Boy, Ric Flair.
- [48:12]
B
Oh, I think he. He made it. He went viral the other day for tipping somebody like, you know, I think 35, 000 bucks or, you know, a lot of money at a restaurant.
- [48:22]
C
The Nature Boy doesn't look so naturey these days, let's put it that way. He looks a bit. It looks as if he bathes in formaldehyde. If I'm gonna be honest, you know, it's a. It's a rough look. It's. It's a tough look. I gotta be honest. Yeah.
- [48:37]
B
How old is nature Boy? I think we'd be impressed with how old.
- [48:41]
C
He's probably 53. And he looks like he's 91.
- [48:45]
B
76.
- [48:46]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:47]
B
No, he's pretty.
- [48:48]
A
He's doing.
- [48:49]
B
Take all everything you said back.
- [48:50]
A
He's doing great.
- [48:52]
B
Yeah, buddy. For the. Listen, he's a regular Mick Jagger. I mean, those guys are immortal. They. Out of the abuse they put their bodies through for the. They're. They're walking miracles, man.
- [49:03]
C
I don't know. I don't know if you want to wake up. I don't want to know if you want to wake up next to either of those guys. I think morning coffee with Nature Boy and Mick Jagger, the woman he was.
- [49:14]
A
With, who's apparently his manager, is.
- [49:18]
C
Is rougher than we think.
- [49:21]
A
Not. Nope. Not doing it anyways.
- [49:25]
C
The family show.
- [49:26]
B
That's wisdom there. That's right.
- [49:29]
A
Where'd it go? Okay, I. I just happened to look up Ric Flair to find his age. Right. He's 76. That I scrolled down. I love these. It can't be right. But how the next. You know, there's a topic here. How much is Ric Flair worth right now? $500,000.
- [49:49]
B
Listen, listen, that was before people made money.
- [49:53]
A
He kept like, you know, like 6% of his net worth to go viral, apparently.
- [49:59]
B
Yeah, that's, you know. Well, maybe he's trying to make some money on social. That's the way for the future, they tell me.
- [50:09]
A
I mean, Ted Dibiase was the Million Dollar man in like the 80s. Right now with inflation, he's like the billion dollar man.
- [50:16]
B
Yeah, true. Social media has changed everything.
- [50:21]
A
Okay, two things. We're going to show you guys the arch public website because we actually did talk about this and it's just. And the one. The one more point I wanted to make when I was talking about the spreads on Robinhood is about to launch another one on okx and we will actually, because of their global liquidity on Altcoins, we'll be able to actually test some other things. Like we'll be able to. We'll be able to access coins beyond Bitcoin, Salon and Ethereum that have enough liquidity for us to really get wild with the arbitrary.
- [50:52]
B
What you're saying is that we'll have more flexibility and pairings as pertains to people. What people want to trade, but it'll.
- [50:59]
A
Also give me more volatility for our strategy. So I'm going to be able to run a more aggressive strategy where we take smaller altcoins than Salon and eth That'll trigger more often on dips to be able to buy more bitcoin and.
- [51:11]
B
Yeah, correct.
- [51:12]
C
Yeah.
- [51:14]
A
There it is. ArchPublic dot.
- [51:18]
B
Call us, talk to schedule a demo, and we'd love to walk you through it and get you set up for free and sanity.
- [51:25]
C
You want tickets to the Bitcoin Investor Week. We. And you're a customer of ours. It's a call. We. We're going to be. We're going to come rolling heavy into New York City February 9th through the 13th, and you're going to see us everywhere at that event. And you're going to see Scott's forehead is going to spend time there as well.
- [51:45]
A
It's pretty big, but it's not like that big.
- [51:49]
C
I mean, mine is just long. My forehead's just very long.
- [51:52]
B
Yeah.
- [51:53]
A
And I've been known to be talked about with my forehead.
- [51:57]
C
Well, I would assume at some point in your life somebody didn't call you forehead. They called you five heads. Right? Is that.
- [52:03]
A
Yeah. Drive in movie theater, all the things. Okay, well, you know, I was gonna keep the show going, but I have eight minutes for therapy now. Thank you. Thank you for that. Did I just. I can't hear anything. Oh, I think. I think my ears back in because now I can't even hear you guys. Can you guys hear me? I can't hear you. Okay.
- [52:30]
C
Yeah, we can hear you. Yes, we can hear.
- [52:32]
A
I'm plugged in now. All right, guys. Well, it's been fun. I don't like you. Does our public work for EU people? Yes.
- [52:44]
B
Yeah. We have a couple of employees from the EU and they are awake when we're asleep, so they'll be happy to talk to you through the US Evening hours.
- [52:56]
C
Wait, does that mean desarge public work for EW people?
- [52:59]
A
You people?
- [53:04]
C
I wasn't sure.
- [53:07]
A
There was a group called EU back in the day when I was in the 80s that had a song called Doing the Butt. Huge at, like, weddings and bar mitzvahs. I was doing the butt.
- [53:19]
C
I remember it.
- [53:20]
A
I remember you remember it because you're old like me. That was a certified classic. What do you mean, you people?
- [53:27]
C
That was the precursor. That's what it was. They. They walked so baby got back could run that. That's what happened.
- [53:35]
A
Is the EU Is Greenland part of you people?
- [53:43]
C
Yeah.
- [53:45]
B
This show is completely derailed. This is why Scott should not have the controls.
- [53:54]
C
Derailed.
- [53:59]
A
Off the rails Tuesday. But guys, Very serious people. All right, guys, I'm gonna go because, like, I gotta go clean my forehead.
- [54:15]
B
See you guys.
- [54:15]
A
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