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- [00:01]
A
Td Cowan says that Bitcoin is headed to $141,000 by December. Not quite as hyperbolic as the predictions of the past. But here we are after a small dip in Bitcoin and the Fed today having a payments innovation conference focusing on Bitcoin and crypto. Yes, that Fed, the Federal Reserve of the United States of America who has long been dismissive and hateful of our beloved industry. We're going to unpack all of this of course with Andrew and Tillman, but also with special guest Matt Sorenson, the CEO of directed Ira. Let's go. Let's do Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Please like and subscribe and know that I am marked safe from the AWS outage of yesterday. I survived it. However, my Robinhood account did not. But that did not prevent it from buying some sweet sweet dips at the dead bottom using the Arch Public algorithms while I was asleep at 2am this morning. But we'll talk about that later because we got to welcome on Matt first time on the show. Welcome.
- [01:20]
B
Thank you, Scott. I don't know what I got myself into, but I'm in for it. Whatever it is.
- [01:24]
A
You're totally screwed. Good morning. Enjoy that. You're going to be very unhappy that you got up at six o' clock in the morning to talk to these three dumbos over here.
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B
I couldn't wait.
- [01:33]
A
To be honest. I wish it was Andrew and Tillman's first time because it would erase all of our long history of terrible content. But here we are joined by Matt. Listen right here. Let's just jump right in. Bitcoin to 141k. We were at 126 like two weeks ago, but now these are the headlines that these are when we're looking for a hyperbolic ridiculous prediction to try to get people to click on the title. Now we have to talk about 141. What happened to 200, 250, 300 by New Year's. One little dip here. But I guess the most important part here is that they're saying the 19 billion flash crash proved Bitcoin's resilience. Resiliency. You'll notice that it doesn't say cryptos resiliency because all of that went to zero for about 35 minutes.
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C
Yeah.
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A
So what do we make of, what do we make of TD Cowan's prediction here? 141?
- [02:24]
C
Well, they're just another entry into the bitcoin space. Right. So whether it's Standard Chartered, whether it's JP Morgan, whether it's Goldman Sachs, whether it's Morgan Stanley, as I mentioned on last week's show, if you're, if you, if you haven't been invited to the party, you've got to crash the party because if you're not there, you don't matter. Right? Every, just like the NFL is a copycat league, financial services is absolutely a copycat league. So once the voices get loud enough and you know, when Larry Fink showed up a year and a half ago, I knew this would happen. Like, you know, it may take a little bit of time for everybody to be like, wait, what's Larry doing over there? And then you have a hundred billion dollars go into IBIT. Now everybody has to have an opinion. Everybody has to put out a research paper, everybody has to put out a price target. Everybody has to be involved because it's now a meaningful part of traditional financial conversations. And so, you know, here's just another additional voice in the space that, that has to say something that has to put a stake in the ground or else their customers are going to be like, what do you, what do you, what are you guys doing on bitcoin? Or else I'm going to take my money over to blankety blank, blank, blank. So you don't want customers doing that. That's the worst case scenario.
- [03:46]
A
We even have Vanguard likely coming back. Who was the most aggressively anti crypto said it would never happen, they would never offer the ETFs. We haven't gotten exact clarity on when and if that will happen, but it's definitely on the docket now. So to your point, you've got BlackRock leading. If you've got Vanguard bringing up the rear as the caboose, everybody's going to.
- [04:06]
C
Get on, everybody's in between.
- [04:07]
B
Yeah, well, I'd say don't forget about Fidelity, you know, the biggest player of retirement accounts out there. They've been bullish on retirement accounts and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. And now you got crypto president, you got a lot of stuff happening in Washington D.C. that's going to make it easier for retirement accounts, which is where $50 trillion is. There's $50 trillion in US retirement accounts and that's starting to get more and more allocation to Bitcoin as well.
- [04:34]
C
That's not a small number. 50 trillion is not a small number.
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B
And by the biggest. Yeah, it's huge.
- [04:39]
C
That's just in the United States, Is that correct?
- [04:42]
B
Yeah, that's the U. S retirement account market. As of the second quarter, it's probably gone up another trillion since then. But you know there's every year, yeah, there's a couple trillion dollars going in and it's like everyday Americans, dollars and cents going in and they're trying to save and build for retirement account. You know, Fidelity will let you allocate up to 20% into crypto out of your retirement account there if your employer allows it. But there's other things happening there. Adding greater access to investors to invest their 401k or IRA. So it's big.
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A
Yeah.
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D
We talk about this notion all the time about a rising tide floats all ships. And the stage in which we find ourselves in bitcoin integration allows for dollars to flow into it that are a little bit mindless in terms of just passive investment dollars that are coming out of paychecks. And I think that is between corporate buying and treasury holdings of bitcoin and the reoccurring buys that take place on that side and then the retail side of it in retirement. I think those are the two systems of purchasing or really the buying support that drives the floor up. And I think we've seen that, I think everybody that's been through a few other cycles have seen the difference in this consistent buying floor that we've had this cycle. And I think that's because a lot of institutional money has to buy in over a long period of time and that's consistent flows of buy orders especially on the dips. And you know, for us to be above 100,000 for as long as we have, for us to have a 20 plus percent potential gain between 100 and the all time high, those things are pretty attractive for entries especially for big money and long, long term perspectives. So I'm really fascinated. I'm glad we have Matt today because I was kind of ignorant to the subject of self directed IRAs before. We got really hand in hand with their, their company and they've just kind of announcement here. I think a lot of people know it, we've sent it out in our newsletter but we are working with directed in, in our customers have told us many, many times we have self directed IRA our IRA accounts or we have an interest in putting retirement dollars into crypto, specifically bitcoin and we need help doing that. And so this has been on the docket for a while for Arch Public but directed has just been a, an enormous help. Number one, they're customer centric like we are and so they treated us like a customer and got us very educated very quickly on these subjects. But they're also integrated with Gemini So you know, Gemini was our first integration and so that makes it very natural and seamless. But I want to hear from Matt for a little bit as it pertains to the evolution of self directed retirement accounts versus, you know, the traditional.
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A
That was my question because Tillman, Matt, said fidelity allows you. Thank you, fidelity. 20% of your IRA. It's my money, but you know, I remember the early days of self directed IRA companies that were very focused on crypto. Right. Self directed IRAs have existed for a long time, Matt. Maybe you'll give us a bit more history. But you know, you can put a cow and some gold and land and some bitcoin with your keys in a self directed ira. Right. I think most people still don't know, but I was actually curious when the ETFs hit how that would affect the self directed IRA business because you just buy Bitwise or IBIT or Fidelity and you no longer maybe have that thirst to have a self directed ira. But you just hinted to the fact that there's limits. I would like to have my whole IRA in bitcoin.
- [08:32]
B
Right? Yeah, so, exactly. So with the self directed IRA with us and what we do, you can put be a hundred percent into crypto. I mean you could do a Roth IRA and it can be entirely tax free. You can even do a health savings account. So a lot of traditional financial services are going to gatekeep how much you buy. Your advisor is going to try to talk you out of it, right? And so what we've done is say, hey, this is open architecture. Buy what you want, buy the cow, invest in the crypto, buy the precious metals. Whatever you have passion about and think is going to add a tremendous amount of value. I mean, in 2017, like I bought it with my Roth retirement account. I bought Bitcoin as 2,500 per BTC. I was like trying to pioneer this. I had a lot of really smart clients, I was a tax lawyer at the time that were trying to figure out, I mean, they had already made a bunch of money and they're asking me in 2017, you know, how do I do this in a more tax advantaged way? Can I buy this in a Roth retirement account? Because I was like a retirement account guy and I'm like, I don't know, let me go try to figure it out. So I just like dove deep in it and tried to figure it out and now it's way easier and you can be far more strategic about it. You know, I know with a lot of clients at Arch Public, they want to like, optimize the market and it's going up and down and they want to make money in crypto, not just buy and hold for the long haul, which there's value, of course, in the long haul as well as it's going up. And so. Well, that's kind of painful, personally doing that.
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A
Right.
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B
Your tax return looks like is pretty, is pretty busy. You know, you got to check on the Fox one on the, on the beginning of the page of the 1040 that you've made money on digital assets.
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A
And so nobody's made money on digital assets.
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B
Yeah, well, the IRS asked you. It's the first damn question after you write your name in Social Security.
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A
Yeah. Rising tide lifts all boats except for all the crypto we own. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
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B
Hey, well, you know what, as long as the IRS is getting money from us that, you know, they're going to be happy. That's one thing the government needs. So steady flow of income. So some, in some ways it's a good thing to the long term deal here. But, but I just think like there's kind of two powerful things here, is one is the access and opportunity to do it, whether that. And Bitcoin, you know, is of course the leader there. But, you know, there's a lot of other ETFs that aren't out yet, you know, and we see a lot of clients to try to optimize and buy those cryptocurrencies before the etf. And you know, you can pretty much buy anything with a crypto IRA with us that's on the Gemini platform, which is a lot of different code, a lot of different tokens. So, yeah, I think it's been a huge opportunity and it's been awesome to work with a lot of arch public clients who are a lot more sophisticated, I'll say, and have a good outlook on crypto. They want to allocate it and do it in a smart way. They can use the Roth retirement account to do it totally tax free, keep all the wins. And so I think it's, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a, something that's been around, as you said earlier, Scott, but I think doing it in a smarter way, greater access and having more control of how you want to do it.
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A
Yeah, I mean, so less specifically about what's being offered. I want to kind of dig into the earlier conversation about how much money this really unlocks, because I think that's the big story. And it's not the only thing Right, So you got Bitcoin is the best risk reward investment right now. I think we all agree with that. But nearly 20% of millennials are adding crypto to retirement portfolios. You've already got one in five millennials. We know that there's a huge wall of money that's going to come from the boomers to those millennials and it's probably going to end up in self directed IRAs or being invested by that millennial and not their dad's registered investment advisor. Right. That's a huge problem for the IRA space. We have $7.5 trillion right now sitting in money market funds, the highest ever. Of course, this is people who are enjoying the high yield environment that we all know is going to go away. So what happens when yields go back to zirp? These money market funds are earning absolutely nothing. That's going to be a whole lot of people that are going to be buying crypto. And of course the Republican bill, based on the executive order from Trump, that bitcoin and crypto will natively be allowed in 401ks. Right. So that's obviously a massive unlock as well. So there's just walls and walls of money and a lot of that in retirement accounts are waiting to come in to buy bitcoin and frankly everything else. Right, yeah.
- [12:50]
B
And I think the one thing Trump's executive order that came out has maybe 2 months ago now on alternative assets in your 401k was huge. I mean, Trump came out and said, it is the policy of the United States that your retirement account should own alternative assets. And then they described later what an alternative asset is. And number two on the list was digital assets. Like he's changed policy in the US in a massive way. I mean, Biden ran away from this stuff.
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A
Right.
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B
And leaving the US behind in this in the crypto space. And Trump's came out and I think for everyday Americans, it's really, really important. This is like long term wealth building, like we're trying to build wealth in America. And so I think it's important for all their portfolios to have a retirement account that they're looking forward so they can build on assets they believe in that are going to grow. But also I think for like the business of crypto in general and just the asset class in general, I mean, Washington, D.C. the more entrenched this gets in people's 401ks and retirement accounts, they're not going to want to mess with it.
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A
But it has to be codified into law. Yeah. Executive orders we know are only as good as who have happens to be sitting in the seat at any given. Yeah, right.
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B
But I'll say this, and I don't mean like geek out tax lawyer on it for a second, but like the, like what you can already own it in a retirement account. Like we actually didn't need the executive order to do it. But he's trying to break down some of the lawsuits and fiduciary liability issues that everybody has that's kind of scared Wall street and typical financial services away from it. Who kind of gatekeeps for one.
- [14:23]
A
Right. But you can't own, you can't own Bitcoin and hold your private keys in a normal Roth IRA. Right. So there are, there are things or a 401k. So there are, especially for the actual community, a lot of nuance that's important to people in the way that they want to hold. And if they can actually buy spot Bitcoin rather than just something that gives them exposure like an ETF.
- [14:46]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I'll say the ETF. Keep in mind, most of the ETFs have about a 1% fee. You know, just in, in, in time as you're in that thing. So there is definitely a cost that depends on how much you're buying, of course. But yeah, I mean, I think on the keystype there are some more advanced strategies on how to figure that out. We've helped clients do that as well. And you can even do that with a crypto account with Arch Public.
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D
I think it's. And it's. And both.
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A
Right.
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D
It's. It's every avenue that we can create that brings an ease to the user.
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A
Right.
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D
Different people want to own different assets. Most people who are high net worth, most of the people that we're talking about as potential investors in our sector, they invest in everything that they believe is a good diversification tool. So it's a question of like what percentage do we capture? And I think, you know, the headline that we showed earlier about, you know, $144,000 Bitcoin or whatever that price prediction was, you know, that's on the low side. Well, it's also their first price prediction. That's how it always is. Everybody starts out now, you know, what were registered investment advisors saying or the big talking heads of our industry saying like 1% allocation when they first started, then they went to 1 to 3% allocation. Well, hell, everybody's now talking, you know, 10 to 15% allocation or a complete death to the 6040 portfolio. And now it's some, you know, 60, 30, 10 or 60, 25, 15, who knows? But I think it's a very slippery slope and I think when you start applying the growth potential and the asymmetric opportunity with that Bitcoin possesses from a scarcity perspective and your potential ownership percentage of a very scarce, highly sought after very asset that has an extraordinary track record both technologically and price wise, I think that all those things make it exceptionally appealing to have some exposure. And I think the fact that Matt and his firm are focused on giving the freedom absolutely to the people they're starting where it's what I would call the non negotiable in my opinion, because I think that's the standard by which crypto has set for the world. If you want to pay someone to custody your assets for you, whether they're digital or non digital, fine.
- [17:13]
A
Right.
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D
If you have a big ranch and you need to pay a ranch manager to custody that asset, clean up the stuff and mow the lawn, that's the same thing, Right. You're just spending money on the asset. Right. While it appreciates the good news about crypto and what we love about it intrinsically is that there's no middleman tax. And when you put it into a retirement account, then you have the government giving you extra incentive to on top of the asymmetric opportunity that you already now possess. I just think it's just, I think to Matt's point earlier, and I've said this about our corporate treasury management side of it and I've seen the outpouring of private businesses that want to invest in Bitcoin. And I had this light bulb moment that I was like, you know what? This is how America rebuilds the middle class. And I think it's with that and with retirement accounts being put in Bitcoin, I really do, I don't see a stronger, you know, a case to be made on any asset. And if we could pull that off and start to tighten the wealth, you know, gap in America, I think that's a strong middle class is what's made us who we are. And that should be the focus whether it's through technical innovation and, or through savings mechanisms on highly appreciatory assets.
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A
Yeah, it's a great dream. But have you seen the national debt and inflation lately? Because there is no middle class. Thank you.
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C
Me up.
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D
Scott.
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A
Don't leave me.
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C
Well, you know, Tillman seems to be running for office here this morning. Retirement account holders are the backbone of this country.
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B
Yeah. Hey, I'm Matt Sorenson. And I support that.
- [19:04]
A
Message paid this message paid for by.
- [19:07]
C
Matt Sorenson Podcast backbone of this country.
- [19:13]
D
God knows what's no Freedom of access is the backbone of our country, and freedom and rights to choose with your money is the backbone. And it's the same principles that really got me attracted to mining Bitcoin is it was, you know, you, you're directly affecting the network and you're a participant and, and you're doing it in a way that's, you know, you're directly involved and you can control. And those things are priceless to me. I, I think a lot of crypto people find those attributes to be very attractive. I'll put that, put it that way.
- [19:47]
C
There is a, you know, what we haven't said yet is just take, take what Scott's doing with our products. He's a, he's essentially farming volatility with Ethereum and Solana to put it into Bitcoin. And yes, there are going to be tax ramifications with that. If you, yeah, if you remove, if you remove, if you remove those tax ramifications. I mean, you're talking about turbo on top of turbo on top of turbo on top of turbocharged returns.
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A
Yeah, I should have been running this in my IRA too.
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C
Yeah, the, the volatility farming with, with those two assets and putting it to bitcoin, it's just, you know, it's compounding on top of compounding on top of compounding, and then you add again a box that you can put it all in that, that is tax advantaged is just an extraordinary setup. If you have any sort of, of IRA that, that wants to be involved in crypto in any meaningful way, this is the way to do it. Like, this is absolutely the way.
- [20:52]
A
Question. Yeah, no question. I do it. Yeah. We might have to run a second account back really quickly to the conversation about getting things like this codified into law. I think it's just worth noting a few pieces of news today. Obviously, the Fed having their payments innovation conference. That's not passing anything to law, but bam. I mean, the Fed is having an entire conference on crypto and bitcoin. If you want to know if we've made it, I don't know where we've made it to, but if you want to know if we've made it, we got the Fed. And then today, these crypto C suites are expected to attend a roundtable with pro crypto Senate Democrats on Wednesday. That's tomorrow. You can see the list. It's the usual suspects. Brian Armstrong, Sergey Novogratz, Everybody basically saw a city at the roundtable with Trump when he was first elected. And then of course Senate Republicans call for own meeting with crypto CEOs after Democrats sit down. This is clearly a bipartisan arms race for who can win the win the hearts and minds of the crypto lobby. Let's be real, it's about money. But either way, I mean this, you know, there's real momentum still here that we haven't been talking about for a while because the government has been shut down for going into the fourth week now.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, but that momentum is there the minute that the doors open back up.
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B
Yeah. And I know we were joking about Tillman running for office, you know, but I mean literally like that conversation and those points he was making is what's happening in D.C. yeah. I mean even our industry says those are literally the conversations about people being able to do what they want to do and invest that they want to do. And also this feeling kind of like for Republicans and Democrats of, well, we don't want to be the country left behind. We don't want to be the idiots that gatekeep this. And other countries have success and, and crypto is not no longer US centric and we have some other nations and countries profiting and benefiting from that even down to their individual citizens. And so I think there's like that this kind of like in some ways we're competing on a world stage with this asset class and letting Americans win on it has been a kind of a message that I think has really resonated whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. And so I think this letting people, and I said, you know, from as far as like especially a lot of the Senate Democrats, even the ones that are pro crypto, letting people invest in this asset class and have allocation to it is like a huge, huge step. A huge step. And it's only the first one that I think we're going to get greater and greater adoption of it.
- [23:20]
D
The most promising thing that I saw on that list was that, you know, CEOs of Uniswap, I mean they're digging deep into the bag of crypto and they're saying, okay, we're going to adopt DeFi. That's incredibly encouraging. You just talk about like this innovation. Where does it end up unencumbered? That's the question I ask myself because I think, you know, it takes a lot of vision to start a self directed, higher rate company that allows people to buy crypto. And, and I think that type of innovation. I've seen their customer base. They're rabid. They've, you know, they're the largest in the space. They've got over $2 billion under management. 3 billion. 3 billion.
- [24:06]
A
I told you guys.
- [24:07]
D
So, so you just again, you go to, you know, the captains of our industry and what are they all doing? They're responding to demand and they're creating innovation products and vehicles for capital to be placed into our sector or industry. Whether it's to, you know, paper representation of the digital asset or building infrastructure in, in the rails. There's all, there's so many ways to contribute. But the story I think is how quickly the, the adoption is, is coming and, and the demand of the retail market for it is just, it's beyond. I think it's the first thing that I've seen in a while that's captured everyone's attention. And the question becomes we, we've been in cycles before where your, your lawn guy tells you like, hey, what do you think about this coin? That's the, that's the quintessential death nail of the bull market. Right? But there I think this cycle's different. I think you're going to see more and more people that you would not expect come to the table and say what about this crypto thing? And I don't think you're, it's going to be the indicative death nail of the bull market. I think it's actually just going its synergy and we're going to see an exponential growth curve or at least a section of exponential growth curve over the next four years.
- [25:29]
C
I, I really do believe that lawn guys are the backbone of this country. I can't get the movie, I can't get the movie, the campaign out of.
- [25:42]
A
My brain against the campaign.
- [25:46]
C
Washington D.C. politics. But it is interesting that you know, the, again we had an election that was meaningfully adjusted in, in one direction because of crypto and the amount of capital and then, and the work that was done on that side. And if you're a politician, you'd be foolish not to try and capture that what is hoped is that that trickles down to meaningful legislation. I do know that, you know, the biggest of the big names are now saying, hey, we got to get legislation through. We got to codify this stuff. We've got to get some guardrails to everything. We, you know, Larry Fink of all people was talking about it last week. Now I, again, the other thing that happened is, you know, there was a proposal put together that nearly, almost Crushed defy from one side of the aisle. So that's the reason why all those folks are going to go meet.
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A
We do not have an all clear yet.
- [26:46]
C
Absolutely we do not.
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A
So the only thing we've done that cannot be undone is maybe kind of the genius act.
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C
Yeah. And, and so you know, as per Uniswap, that that's the reason Uniswap is headed to Washington D.C. yeah.
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D
But it's, it's a funny joke. Like okay, how, how's it been trying to crush Defi over the last eight years? You can't defi. So good luck. You're. This is a, a pitiful excuse at a last attempt negotiation. I think the cat's out of the bag. I think that it's good. I'm glad that everybody's taking their time to go and meet with the politicians so that we can get laws codified. But to think that they actually are at a place of understanding to where they could write the laws that would be codified. Now they're just bringing in all the smart people that understand the space to, to write the bill, basically. Well, it has to be written.
- [27:41]
C
It's gonna be your point that it's a train that doesn't stop. Just a quick little headline. You know, Tether just announced. They, they reached 500 million users. I think about that. There's 500 million users for Tether.
- [27:55]
D
Like you're not going coinbases in The S P 500.
- [27:59]
A
Yeah.
- [27:59]
C
You're not, you're not gonna stop. You're not gonna stop, stop that. You're not going to, you made, put some effort into it, but it's just, it's gonna bully over.
- [28:09]
A
Yeah man, I know we kind of gotta let you go, but we're gonna give you your final thoughts from Matt Sorensen.
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B
Hey, I, I just think, you know, if you care about crypto and bitcoin in particular, and I think we started this off with a setup about some of the money flows. I mean Scott, you talked about money market. 7 and a half trillion sitting there. Yeah. Where's that going to go as rates continue to drop? And then I think the retirement account, this steady and consistent flow of money, which is where most Americans have their investable dollars, 50 trillion sitting in it right now, a couple trillion going in every year. I mean that is massive for crypto as we're getting seeing greater and greater allocation for that, more and more opportunities, less restrictions. I think it's important for the asset as it's getting more money put into it, into the system and also for the investors are going to have greater access to it. Plus doing it in a tax advantage way, which we love the Roth account because it grows and comes out entirely tax free. So that's. I think that'll be my. That's my final statement and I support this message.
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A
If you guys should see, Matt has a huge YouTube channel by the way, in case you guys are wondering.
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B
Almost at 100k.
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A
Almost got like 397k views. 389k view. That's. I, I've never done that.
- [29:27]
C
Listen, any.
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A
Anybody who. I stink at this. Look at those thumbnails.
- [29:31]
D
Those are insanely.
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A
That's Diddy with his mouth covered. Look at that one.
- [29:37]
B
Oh yeah. I was all over Diddy. You know, I was all over.
- [29:40]
A
Don't say that out loud. All over me. If you want to get paid.
- [29:47]
C
Yeah, you spell your name with one T. I mean that's just elite right off the bat.
- [29:52]
A
You know, I'm all about efficiency with no tease.
- [29:55]
B
I'm all about efficiency.
- [29:56]
D
You know what I heard say is if we get 10% of the retirement account money, we double our market cap. So to 8 trillion or, you know, it's a lot of money. Let's go get that.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah, I don't know if you guys saw. I know we're letting them go, but bitwise did a kind of one of those that you just mentioned. They said if 3 to 4% of the capital rotates from gold to bitcoin, we basically, you know, bitcoin price goes to 250.
- [30:22]
C
Again, that's just gold to bitcoin. That, that's not other assets to be on that.
- [30:27]
A
And the PayPal president saying sell your gold and buy Bitcoin. PayPal president. I mean these are like real people that people actually listen to for some reason saying things that we like about us.
- [30:39]
D
Matt, broken clock is right today.
- [30:41]
A
Scott clock. It's okay, Boomer. All right, Matt, we're gonna let you go. We're gonna get going. Thank you so much for waiting for us.
- [30:50]
D
See you later.
- [30:52]
A
I don't know why I am not doing the thing in my ira. I should have done that.
- [30:57]
C
Listen, listen. ADHD podcasters are the backbone of this country. Okay.
- [31:04]
A
You're talking about Matt, obviously. That guy, clearly he's like the most non adhd, but he had middle aged crypto kols. Hey, so should we talk about how epic Arch Public is?
- [31:20]
C
Yeah, absolutely.
- [31:22]
A
Well, first of all, I got really excited when I had to put our.
- [31:25]
D
Conversation on mute because Scott is so excited that he's Texting all day long. 24. 7.
- [31:35]
A
I don't care about your time zone reception.
- [31:37]
D
And he's putting screenshots of his trades in the chat.
- [31:41]
A
I got up at 3:45 this morning and the first thing I noticed, bought a bunch of stuff at 2am you want to check it out? Look at this bottom ticked Solana. I mean, bitcoin to the literal penny of that. Move down 107. 4. Solana. Okay, the bottom was 182. We suck. So we only bought it at 183.
- [32:06]
C
Eth.
- [32:06]
A
Really awful. I mean, look at that huge wick that we missed. Listen, you don't want this sarcasm, guys. Eth I guess went to a low of 3840. Since we're basically homeless guys, we bought it at 3864. And go back to that salad one. Like it's been unloading every pump right before it drops. Like, it's unbelievable. How do you do it? I don't understand. How do you do. How do you do it? It's magic.
- [32:33]
D
You know what? I knew you did it because now.
- [32:36]
A
I haven't been using things.
- [32:38]
D
This is important.
- [32:40]
C
This is important to talk about here in a public venue.
- [32:43]
A
Well, you guys can see I got 12 of these things running. So before it was like, hey, I'm in a dollar cost average. I was cool. It' like we've never looked at or used your products here, right? And the. The. But like when I got this, when I've nailed this, this exact 12 alos in and we just actually yesterday tweaked these, the intelligence ones. But man, it is a sight to see. I was like, we buy a little, we sell a little, there's more cash. It buys Bitcoin.
- [33:09]
B
It's.
- [33:10]
D
It's a disciplined approach that you came up with that you set it and forget it. And you watch the discipline happen. Those. You know, when you see a candle that's very large that has a lot of volume and a lot of price movement, that's momentum, right? And. And when you're on the other side of that momentum, that's a great spot to be. Why? Because every smart person that's ever been an investor or trader says things like, buy when there's blood in the streets. That's what Warren Buffett says. So, you know, you have to be counter the mass to be effective. And so when everyone's selling what you. In a perfect world, you want to buy on those exhaustion points. And that's exactly what you set up to have happen for you, Scott. And the best part is, is now you don't have to wait around for those events to take place. They happen when you're asleep. They happen when you're at the gym. They happen when you're.
- [34:04]
A
Yeah. You know, I can't open my Robinhood. I was going to show my Robin Hood. I can't open it because the AWS thing is down. And then I just went to open it. It was. Was like verify your idea. And it needs my camera that I'm using to take a picture of my face. So I literally can't. But you guys will see, like, I immediately added 50 grand more to the account. I've almost bought through all of that because I am me. But you talked about being patient. I was wildly impatient the first day for those who don't remember. And I basically, they were telling me, you know, it'll trigger. I was like, no, these haven't triggered in a week. I back tested. Let me just unload 35% of the account above 120 the first day. So the numbers I. I'm up and imagine how much better I'd be doing. You know, I had actually this is.
- [34:46]
D
All a part of.
- [34:46]
A
Not that I'm mad that I bought Bitcoin. You know, listen, that was still buying at 120 and 121 instead of 125 and 126. Bingo.
- [34:54]
D
You know, listen, you can't go wrong when you're buying the dips and you want to own an asset. That, that is the proverbial buying when it's on sale. And most people, if you're honest with yourself and you go back, look at your charts when you purchased manually, myself included, I typically buy on big green candles because those are the ones that make me excited. You don't get excited when you're losing money. That's the counter to excitement. So why. Why try to be real prudent and rational and expect yourself to be every time and attentive when that's just not humanly possible.
- [35:31]
A
So setting definitely I can knowing myself, I would have 100 bought more higher 100. No question. I would have been willing. And listen, I thought it actually I was very vocal saying, Hey, 125 might be a top for a little while. We might range between 100 and 125. But like I wasn't waiting for 100 to buy. Yeah, because I don't know it's a good idea. But like I, I'm definitely the kind of person would be like, I've got Some money today. I'm gonna buy Bitcoin and I'm price agnostic. Very sailorish.
- [36:01]
C
Yeah. It needs to be said. And this is a, you know, this isn't a commercial for arch public. It's a conversation about what has been built. And yeah, we've got a team of developers that do a great job of coding everything. But I do, for the record, want it to be known that Tillman is the brain behind all this. He's the one that came up with arbitrage, came up with Oracle protocol, came up with accumulation, came up with our ladder strategy. He's the one that's done all that stuff. And most people don't know that. Most people think we've got a bunch of people in a room somewhere just pounding away on computers. We do have that, but it comes from the mind of Tillman and it's extraordinary stuff. I mean, Scott, you're taking the journey of all of our customers, specifically our concierge program folks. You see it. And every single time I've done six.
- [37:00]
A
Or seven calls with your guys.
- [37:01]
C
Yeah.
- [37:01]
A
You're like, I, I tweak.
- [37:03]
C
Yeah. You're like, holy smokes. You know, you wake up at three, whatever you did today, and you're like, this is, this is incredible stuff. It keeps buying, it keeps selling the pops and then grabbing the nearly the absolute lows. It's, it's magic. And so one flowers to Tillman and the work that he does with our team. But then two, again, it cannot be overstated. What it feels, feels like to have tools that do the thing that you would most want to do in this space and then to be able to dial it in, however you want to dial it in. If you want it to be slowly liquidating a position, yep, we can do that. If you want it to quickly build a position, yep, we can do that.
- [37:48]
A
Yeah, I did that.
- [37:49]
C
Yeah.
- [37:51]
A
I was like, I should be buying $10,000 every time one of these fires one hour candle, right?
- [37:55]
C
Yes.
- [37:55]
D
The best part here, there's no wrong answer. If some this thing will let you drive the car as fast as you.
- [38:01]
A
My goal was to buy more bitcoin, not to make more money. I've said that a bunch of times. I believe it will make me more money, but my dollar balance on this is not my benchmark of success or I wouldn't have been at the very beginning. Like, let's accumulate a position first so that the thing can actually start firing.
- [38:18]
D
Well, let me thank you for the kudos, Andrew, and I do appreciate it.
- [38:21]
A
Flowers, we Gave you flowers.
- [38:23]
D
Flowers.
- [38:24]
A
They were not kudos.
- [38:25]
D
Yeah, well, I like kudos too. Those are. Are those still.
- [38:28]
A
Remember those granola bars? The kudos.
- [38:31]
C
There's a story there.
- [38:34]
D
So we. Here's the thing though. I'm not taking. I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done in the traditional markets. These are all things that have been available to the traditional space for a very long time. And what we're doing is, is we're bringing it to retail. Right. That's. That's the objective here is to break down the walls, the access barriers that traditionally, like what these tools have typically been behind is a brokerage firewall where the elite traders within a specific firm use these tools for themselves and they set up hundreds and thousands of purchasing instances and they're essentially market maker tools to some degree. And they do that behind their firewall with proprietary software that at Great Links they go to protect. This is breaking down those barriers and essentially giving those same tools to everybody so that they don't have to sit and be a slave to their screen every day. That's the. The emotional whipsaw the markets will put you through as a trader is what makes everyone fail. Truthfully.
- [39:45]
A
Yeah.
- [39:45]
D
I mean, what were y' all smiling at? I didn't read that.
- [39:50]
A
The important question for me is the gift. Hear any banging in the cellar today? I guess go find a pirate ship.
- [40:00]
C
All the freight. All the framing is finished. We. Yeah.
- [40:04]
A
What are you building down there?
- [40:07]
C
I don't know. More stuff. We're just finishing the basement. Yeah. Finishing the basement.
- [40:13]
D
Have you not heard him on podcast? And he's got like kids running in the background and like he's building a jungle gym down there. It's a whole kids theme park, a water slide area.
- [40:23]
A
You know, it's a little Neverland ranch down there.
- [40:29]
C
By the way, the person that sent that message, I'm not entirely sure if we're allowed to use the word gimp anymore. I think that may be off the.
- [40:37]
A
It's a movie reference, so you can say it. That's true. Yeah. You can't quote Pulp Fiction without saying it. By the way, is this guy using your tools? Because Tom Lee bought another 63539 ETH were 251 million. That's like today he had bought a billion more on the dip or something.
- [40:54]
C
He's gonna own all the.
- [40:55]
D
I'm shocked that someone didn't take the Michael or the. The sailor eth. Spotlight sooner. Right. He's the perfect guy to take to do it and I'm glad. But he has become Michael Sailor of. Of Ethereum. I mean that's, it's. He's the largest shareholder. I think they have 5%, don't they? Of the supply.
- [41:14]
A
Yeah. It was two and a half before all these buys, so it's got to be climbing. I just really want to know that if I come to Andrew's house. What's the safe word if I'm stuck in the basement?
- [41:23]
C
Gimp.
- [41:24]
A
I know what's going on down there.
- [41:26]
C
That's.
- [41:26]
A
The safe room is red. He watched a few too many 50 Shades episodes or movies.
- [41:35]
C
Oh, God, I didn't watch the movies. I read the books.
- [41:38]
A
Okay, bring that back and see if we can make them uncomfortable.
- [41:41]
C
You know, I'm a mindful individual now.
- [41:42]
D
I know it's a joke because he's not reading anything.
- [41:47]
C
That's true. That's true. I.
- [41:50]
A
Right.
- [41:50]
C
I am not a book reader now.
- [41:52]
A
Yeah. So in all seriousness, we're now Robin Hood, Kraken, Gemini, Coinbase, any.
- [42:03]
D
You know, we do have an announcement.
- [42:06]
A
And what jurisdictions are we not covering here?
- [42:09]
D
Well, we're excited about a new partnership that's come to our attention and come to, you know, our plate. OKX is really excited about working with us and I think there's a lot of potential there both from, you know, there's a lot of things they can offer that we've never been offered before. And so I don't want to speak out of turn and you'll have to wait to hear more details about that. But I do think that that's going to be an exciting announcement and I think there's going to be some really interesting things that come about because of it. So we're pretty pumped about that.
- [42:46]
A
I might or might not have a good relationship with them.
- [42:48]
C
Yeah.
- [42:49]
A
With.
- [42:49]
C
Without getting into specifics, there may be, let's just call it an incentive or two associated with, with okx that I, I think will be meaningful. So, you know, people get to. People get to make their own decisions. Kraken for Canada.
- [43:02]
A
Yeah.
- [43:03]
C
If you're a Canadian, jump on, jump on crack and you'll be good to.
- [43:07]
A
Go Get a cracking dude. Yeah. Okay. Actually be awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:14]
D
They seem to be really forward thinking and you know, what we're trying to do and why we offer our product for free for everyone to try. And it's not a watered down version, it's the full unencumbered version. So you can actually see what you're getting into is that once you try automation, you're kind of addicted to it. Scott, you can probably attest to that more over the last couple weeks.
- [43:38]
A
Never manually doing anything ever again. I'm gonna get you guys to find something to do. Dishes, watch my kids. I'm automating everything. I'm done.
- [43:48]
D
Imagine the objective of life was to catch fish. You can stand out there and fly fish. Very boring, very tax intensive from a labor perspective. You're sweating, you're casting, you're getting caught in bushes, you're re tying flies. It's a pain, man. I've been a fly fisherman. Or if the objective is to catch fish, you can put a line in the water with a bobber attached to it and a worm and you just wait until the bell starts ringing and you go down and you reel in the fish. That's the analogy I would give as it pertains to automation. It feels very freeing because you're doing other things and you hear the bell go off and you go, wow, I've caught some fish. And so that, that positive reinforcement gets you more and more engaged with to software. And that's where the story starts for each individual. The story is different. Everybody has a different journey, everybody has different objectives. But this will, to Andrew's point earlier, help you achieve any objective that you have. And we're very passionate about kind of peeling the curtain back on this technology and, and showing people that it is available to them and they can control it. And we don't custody anyone's money. It's safe on your experience.
- [44:58]
A
That should be very clear because I get that question all the time. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and Concierge members, top 10 are going to get an outing to Andrew's basement.
- [45:11]
C
Come on, come on, I'll throw you some steaks.
- [45:14]
A
We'll have a good time. Sorry, sorry. Tell me, I didn't mean to interrupt.
- [45:20]
D
No, I think that, I think that governed it. I just think it's. Once you see it, you'll believe it. So call us. We got a ton of great customer support folks that are very passionate about walking you through and getting you set up. And you know, once you, once you get set up, it's a, it's not a. Your, your journey isn't over. Scott has readjusted his algos four times since he started two weeks ago.
- [45:45]
A
Am I weird?
- [45:46]
D
No, you're not weird. You're exactly. You're the prototypical customer. Everybody has this journey of, okay, I want to see a lot of action. Okay, that's too much action. Oh, that's just right action. Oh, that's enough capital. I want less capital, applied more. Everybody has this natural evolution of really finding the sweet spot for them. And that's about a month journey, or, you know, I would even call it longer than that, to find the absolute perfect sweet spot. Give it, you know, 60 to 90 days, you'll be a pro at the software, you'll be able to do anything you want. And then.
- [46:20]
A
It kind of makes me want to see. I hate it. I'm not gonna say this out loud because people. Okay. Kind of makes me want to see price go a lot lower. Yeah.
- [46:28]
D
It retrains your brain. You see dips happen and you're like, boom, I'm getting. I'm grabbing.
- [46:32]
A
I know I'm getting it. Every one of them, even if they're higher than the next one. Because I believe this thing will be at, you know, 250, 500, a million, whenever that is. And I'm going to be really psyched that I bought it all the way down, even if it keeps going. Yeah. Is it available? It's available everywhere. I mean, it's available anywhere any of those exchanges are available. So.
- [46:51]
D
So yeah.
- [46:51]
C
Yeah. Ab.
- [46:52]
D
Not only is it available in the uk, but we have two employees from the uk. So you can talk to somebody in your native tongue and work on your own operations.
- [47:02]
C
Yeah, we, we. Yeah, we can't. We can't understand our uk. We use Google Translate when they talk on our team meetings.
- [47:11]
A
But yeah, you had a trailer for me, Ma.
- [47:16]
D
No, but it is because, you know, the top. The timing is. Is weird for, you know, for operational hours. So, yeah, it's. It makes it easy or.
- [47:24]
A
Yeah, they live in a dumb time zone.
- [47:26]
C
Like, everybody should get.
- [47:27]
A
Everybody should get on our time zone because we're the best. I wouldn't call it that. Did you know that in Asia it's like nighttime when it's day?
- [47:36]
B
Here.
- [47:38]
A
They literally can't even, like, do daytime at the right time. It's ridiculous.
- [47:42]
C
In Australia, it's the future. It's tomorrow plus two hours. In Australia.
- [47:46]
D
Like, they know, aren't you right? Based upon how close you are to utc, isn't that how they measure correctness?
- [47:54]
A
Universal Texas.
- [47:59]
D
That's Central time. That's the universal Texas time zone.
- [48:03]
C
Maximalists are the backbone of our country.
- [48:08]
A
Yeah. Just off the rails, off the rails. ArchPublic.com regardless of your time zone, whether it's right or wrong, we won't judge you because we. There's no more cancel culture, so we can't cancel you for living in the wrong time zone anymore. And you can sign up for all of this and use it. And I'm going to just keep sharing it and you guys can make it like okay if you don't like it or if you do, it's free by the way.
- [48:37]
C
Use it for free if you want to just try it. Use it for free if you don't like it.
- [48:41]
A
Like I can literally just hear. I can show you guys, guys, the log really quick. Like this is of. This is a soul chart. But this is all the times that it's fired.
- [48:49]
C
Yeah.
- [48:50]
D
So far it's a lot of action. But look at the action. All the buys are at the bottom of big red candles or blue candles in this instance. And all the cells are at the top of big.
- [48:59]
A
You can see.
- [49:00]
D
Yeah.
- [49:00]
A
On the 17th that bought some ETH. On the 20th it was a slow kind of over the weekend, you know, it sold and then we bought three times today down here we were selling things that we bought, sell, sell. Bye. I mean it's just back and forth, man.
- [49:13]
B
Yeah.
- [49:13]
A
And listen, I have it set so it can't sell below my cost basis. Yeah. That's why we're not selling bitcoin right now. Which I don't want to do anyway. I do have it set up so it can sell a little bitcoin if we get a massive pump. But only obviously. But you know, because we're. It wouldn't be doing this if we were below cost basis. Right. Well that's, you know, I'm making money.
- [49:33]
D
That's right. Every single time the bell goes off, you're in profit if you have to have that box checked in your software because it won't sell below your cost basis and it won't sell without a meaningful move up. And you define what that meaningful move up is. And so Scott has a lot of instance running instances running on different time frames. But let's just take one for example. If it goes up by 2.6% on a four hour time candle or a four hour window, he's gonna sell 50% of his last taken position. So he will take 50 in profit if there's a move above cost basis of 2.6%. And that's why you see those pink arrows all on the upside to the blue arrows because those are all above cost. Those are all in profit.
- [50:21]
A
And.
- [50:21]
D
And that's exactly what you're doing is your yield farming essentially.
- [50:25]
A
Even if it was literally like would be smarter than me. Even if it was just simply programmed to like buy the end of a bad candle and sell the end of a good candle over time. I bet that would even work. And this is. Is ten times more intelligent than that.
- [50:36]
D
It is.
- [50:37]
A
Yeah. You can't beat. I never, ever buy the top of a candle in a time period that I've set. Ever, ever. And I can't sell the bottom like a capitulating jackass. Which is what humans will do given the opportunity, they will sell the bottom and buy the top. I'm not doing that. It's awesome. Yeah. All right. That's all we got for you today. We managed to literally just make jokes for like 17 minutes of the 53 that we were here. At least Matt still, we let him go before Elgo.
- [51:08]
C
Traders are the backbone of this country.
- [51:12]
A
Automated algorithm. All right, we will see you. We'll see you next Tuesday. Next Tuesday, I'm going to be the 6am guy. I'm gonna be in Vegas. Going to Vegas on Monday at 4pm One hour after Texas, probably maybe two hours after Texas. I don't. I'm trying to adjust my mind to Texas Standard Time, but Las Vegas time. Interviewing sailor at Money 2020 fire.
- [51:37]
D
Dang. That's a big one.
- [51:39]
A
Let's. Let's act like it's a big deal, but we know I'm not going to get to talk.
- [51:44]
C
Yes.
- [51:45]
A
Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Saylor. That's how I start. And at the end, ladies and gentlemen.
- [51:49]
D
Michael, you need to ask him, do you recommend all private companies that are accumulating bitcoin on their balance sheets smash buy at the tops, or do you think they should algorithmically buy the bottoms of dips? And we need to get that clip. And then we'll use it as a promotion of algorithmic trading for retail. I do think that a lot of people I've had. I've had people tell me, well, I'm just gonna buy whenever I see an orange dot on Sailor's chart. And I'm going, well, he's buying on. On leverage. And those are the points where by which he gets the biggest leverage or the biggest debt to buy. Do you have that same advantage? No, I don't. Well, then why are you doing.
- [52:32]
A
What should be notable is that like, you know, with s. With his most recent product was strc.
- [52:38]
C
You.
- [52:39]
A
I mean, he's. He's paid a 10 yield. You view that that means he's willing to like, basically his. Make his cost of capital 10, probably more with expenses, just to buy bitcoin. Right. He's willing to take basically a 10 haircut. It's pretty incredible.
- [52:55]
C
It is.
- [52:55]
A
I'm gonna ask him about all of it. Or if he lets me ask.
- [52:58]
C
Try to. Yeah.
- [52:59]
A
I don't know. I might be. They might be like, bring out the Gimp and Michael Saylor and then I'll be the Gimp. And send me back to my basement after. No, it should be fun. I'm really looking forward to. It'll be great. I haven't done a proper sit down with him in quite a while, so. Should be great. And so I'll see you at 6am next Tuesday.
- [53:17]
B
Enjoy.
- [53:18]
A
Thanks, guy. I'm sure I'll be in great shape. It's Vegas, right?
- [53:21]
C
Yeah. You did so well at the Bitcoin conference earlier this year. You were in such great shape after the third day that.
- [53:28]
A
Yeah, it was. I was very impressive. Tip top.
- [53:30]
D
Go race some cars for us. I'm jealous.
- [53:33]
A
Try to do that. Yeah. All right, gentlemen, gotta go. See you later. Get back in the basement, Andrew. Bye. That's dope. That's dope.