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- [00:01]
Scott Melker
Bitcoin treasury companies are booming and so are Ethereum treasury companies and Solana treasury companies and Doge treasury companies Trump treasury companies and probably Fart Coin treasury companies. But they are not all built the same. And it's important to understand the differences and why this is such a massive trend. On top of that, we obviously have a lot more to unpack with the market. It's Arch Public day. It's Tuesday. I've got Andrew here. Tillman couldn't make it because apparently he fell off a dock. Not kidding. But we also have Todd Shapiro, CEO, founder of Red Light Holland, who's been on my podcast actually many, many, many years ago. Glad to have him back and we'll tell you why he's here. Let's go.
- [00:47]
Todd Shapiro
Let'.
- [01:01]
Andrew
Let'S do.
- [01:02]
Scott Melker
We are back for yet another day here on YouTube and gonna fulfill my once a week quota here and tell you guys to like and subscribe because I don't want to get kicked out or unfavored by the algorithm and you need to feed the YouTube beast. So I know none of you are going to do that, but I told you to do it. Anyways, gonna go ahead and bring on Andrew and Todd now. Andrew, what the hell happened to Tillman, man?
- [01:28]
Andrew
Listen, I, I don't know if there were was anything other involved other than just absolutely being clumsy, falling off a dock, hitting a beam with his legs and when his leg hurts, he can't talk. I mean that, that's what I'm taking from this. When his leg hurts, he, he can't speak. So that's where we're at with Tillman today. His leg hurts.
- [01:47]
Scott Melker
Okay, okay, got it. So I was like, Todd, what's up man? Listen, so we talk quite frequently, but you haven't. I looked back, you were like one of the first video episodes I ever did on the show and I switched from audio. It probably was 2021 early.
- [02:05]
Todd Shapiro
Unbelievable. Yeah man. I mean listen, I remember discovering you through, through Twitter and I reached out because I'm like this guy is just a dude and I mean that honest like in a nice way. Like you're just a guy going out there being genuine, being candid and obviously had a great audience and it's amazing to see what you've done with that audience. So congrats on that success since. So thank you for having me back.
- [02:29]
Scott Melker
You're welcome. We're not going to dig too deeply into it, but Todd was actually the most listened to podcaster on Spotify in Canada. So he has a little bit of experience doing these things. But listen, we obviously have this major trend going on right now, I would say in bitcoin, but it's in crypto because it's not just bitcoin anymore. It seems that every token is getting a treasury company. I have from the very beginning been pretty clear that I think there's a major differentiation in the way that these companies operate and are handled. So I think there's bitcoin balance sheet companies, which is companies that take some of their available cash and buy bitcoin with it, just like every human being on the planet should, in my very humble non financial vice opinion, opinion. And then there's people who financially engineer their balance sheets to buy more bitcoin. And that's effectively there's an entire business. So here is the. I'm gonna bring it up right now, even though I've already talked about before, but here's the reason that we're discussing this today is because Todd and I are doing that. Todd has an amazing company called Red Light Holland selling some amazing products. I'll let him dive into that, but brought me on to help him buy bitcoin for their balance sheet, basically taking a percentage of their cash to buy bitcoin. And of course, my condition for doing something like that, which is not publicly announced, was, dude, I don't want to be in charge of buying your bitcoin. We're going to use an algorithm to buy your bitcoin. And so, guys, that's where we are. Right? So, Todd, first of all, talk about why you want to add bitcoin to the balance sheet.
- [04:03]
Todd Shapiro
Yeah, great. And by the way, I'm long winded, so feel free to interrupt me and perhaps let me give you a little context for those who don't know the, you know, Red Light Holland was the first publicly traded company ever to go public on the basis of selling legal psychedelics. And that's psilocybin in the Netherlands. And that was a big accomplishment just to get listed on the Canadian Securities Exchange. And there's, of course, a little part of us on the OTC as well. And that's been five years running now. So essentially, we're about deregulation, decentralization. We're all about really being the people's company. And it's tough to say that when your stock price goes down a little bit because the people get pissed off of you and get pissed off at the CEO who, who, you know, essentially is in charge.
- [04:46]
Scott Melker
Welcome to crypto, Todd.
- [04:51]
Todd Shapiro
As the largest shareholder in the company, it's Personally, very difficult to see those swings. So at the end of the, at the end of the day though, what was really interesting for us, and you know, the regulatory process is a very difficult one and we had felt that it would have sped up by now. And we're, you know, love or hate this administration, we're seeing really good movement with the Trump admin with whether it's Casey Means, the Surgeon General or Doug Collins, who's the veteran of Secretary of the Secretary of Veteran affairs, rather, we're seeing some great progress and I think access to veterans is down the road, RFK Jr etc. But back to the regulatory process being slow, that also hurt us in the banking industry. So here we were, a company raised a bunch of millions of dollars, which was, you know, just unbelievable for me, being a, you know, rookie CEO on Bay street at the time, Canada's version of Wall street. And we were start to, you know, consider building this really big farm. And that wasn't in magic mushrooms, that was just in regular mushrooms, because we do that as well. And as we were looking for lending on the farm project, which was going to do, you know, shiitake, Lion's main oyster, etc. Things you'd buy at the exotics at your grocery store. Next thing you know, the Tier one bank pulled our banking. Not only did they not give us the loan for the project, so that was a personal attack on the company and its shareholders. And, and we felt devastated by that because we're by every letter of the law. You know, there's so many illegal magic mushroom companies out there. And here we are the ones paying, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in audits, hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal opinions and obviously doing everything by these commissions, and yet we got debanked. So, you know, the more and more I thought of it, I felt like this was a really good theme for the company. We believe in, you know, we champion deregulation and we champion decentralization. It all aligns to have personal sovereignty. So we're not going too crazy. But then again, I'm not the expert. Even though I've been delving in this.
- [06:48]
Scott Melker
Space for the last decade, we were talking about big. You've been in this for 10 years.
- [06:52]
Todd Shapiro
It's not like, yeah, so, you know, I have some. But, but in order for me to go to my board and say, let's make some calculated decisions here, that's where, you know, and candidly, not giving financial advice or anything, we felt the best ability for us to do this smartly is being coached into doing it. And that's what every good company does. That's what every great leader does. They bring on people who can help coach you into areas that they know better than we do. So Scott Melker is helping coach us and we're entirely grateful for that. I mean, you are just a wealth of knowledge. You're always studying. And, and so we're so, we're so, we're so thankful to have you aboard. And, and we're looking forward to the next steps.
- [07:32]
Scott Melker
Yeah, and so like in the announcement, just so people say, because this is all trans, very, very transparent, it's up to Canadian 2 million in Bitcoin and related assets. So as I call that roughly a one and a half million bucks. I don't know what you guys do with your funny Canadian money up there.
- [07:47]
Todd Shapiro
We don't say funny, it's monopoly money.
- [07:50]
Scott Melker
We don't really address that as a real thing. But I'm glad that you guys do because that's great. And you know, to go basically up to tranches of 250,000. So the idea here, like I would say to any responsible individual, is to slowly buy bitcoin over time until you have a full allocation and then since you're a company with actual cash flow and income, eventually increase that as you make more money. But I will say, Todd, I don't know how private it is, so I'll keep it like in broad strokes. But the minute this announcement came out, let's just say that Todd and I got a lot of phone calls to do this a different way. Is that a fair, a fair assessment.
- [08:31]
Todd Shapiro
And honestly, beyond my wildest dreams, it was incredible the outreach that we started receiving. And listen, part of the job of a CEO of a publicly traded company is to get attention on that company. And I wouldn't say this strategy was only a ploy to get tension, but man, to see it come in authentically and especially knowing we're well capitalized. And with Scott, it wasn't just kind of like, hey, a company pretending to do something for the treasury like this really aligned. So yeah, Scott, it didn't stop. I mean, it's still not stopping.
- [09:03]
Scott Melker
It's great and it's funny. And a lot of people called and said, hey, we have a whole lot of money and you should be a bitcoin treasury company and spin off your actual business. And I just want you guys to know what's happening in this space and Andrew will jump in here. But like people literally see you mention bitcoin and publicly traded company at this point and they think you're just gonna give up everything you've ever worked on or cared about for your whole life because they'll write a check and turn you into a bitcoin Treasury.
- [09:31]
Andrew
Well, the reason is, is because they, they simply, you know, Wall street only sees one thing and they see, they see MicroStrategy in the model that's happened there. And why does Wall street only see that? Because MicroStrategy keeps going back to the Wall street well, which does what at Wall Street? It generates enormous fees, right? So Wall street bankers keep handing Michael Saylor money to create new products associated with the equity that is MicroStrategy to buy Bitcoin.
- [10:04]
Scott Melker
We got a new one today.
- [10:05]
Andrew
Yeah, there's a new one today, in.
- [10:08]
Scott Melker
Case you were wondering. Strategy debuts. Fourth preferred stock offering called it.
- [10:13]
Andrew
I'm waiting for one, I'm waiting for one to be called Stench. Right? We've got stretch, strife, you know, all sorts of stuff.
- [10:21]
Scott Melker
Strife, Stench, scratch. I mean, scratch. At some point, last one will just be. And we'll know.
- [10:29]
Andrew
Yeah, but here's the thing. Wall street will lend him the money. They'll, they'll hand him the money to do it, right? It's, it's, it's not going to stop. And so that's the model. What, what Wall street sees and the reason why you guys got so many calls is ding, ding, ding, ding. If we can convince these guys to do a micro strategy model, then we can just generate fees like crazy and then tell them to do the next tranche and the next tranche and the next tranche and the next tranche until that exhausts itself. That's going to be the case again and again and again and again. The pure Bitcoin treasury company plays. Agree with you, Scott, that at some point it's a bubble and it will, it will flatten out. But the bitcoin balance sheet companies and what Todd is doing, what others are doing, that's where the value is long term. And here's why. The value. We've done studies at Arch Public because we're working with several companies doing the balance sheet thing. And the truth of the matter is, is if you have a, you know, 25%, you know, profit margins, right, in your business, if over the past four years you would have been doing the bitcoin balance sheet, you, you effectively double, you double your operating profits, right? And that's meaningful, right? So, so if you're a company and you're generating profits and then now you're adding Bitcoin to your balance sheet and the performance that that also gives you is is that company versus a competitor that's not doing it more valuable or less valuable and to what degree is it more valuable? Is it A factor of 3? Is it a factor of 5? Is it a factor of 10? The market will figure that out, but it's definitely a factor of something and it's more valuable. So Todd's thinking about it the right way. Todd's acting and doing things about it the right way. And we're just thrilled to be involved and, and to do it in an intelligent way. Right, to be smart about the way that you purchase Bitcoin. And there'd be some level of programmatic intelligence involved in the acquisition of Bitcoin itself.
- [12:36]
Scott Melker
So I want to talk about how many treasury companies announcements we have right now because I got sent the news this morning and I responded. The producers like dudes too much but it's all the same. Ethereum. Oh, this is the next one. Okay. Ethereum Crypto treasury to go public in 1.5 billion SPAC deal. We saw this one yesterday. It was the Ether machine that launched. Actually I have the chart here. There you go. I'm sure all that volume was totally like natural. And we're just people that were already holding shares before in this company, Dynx. But I digress. Blank check company TLGY surges after raising 360 million for altcoin treasury. Vulcan, I guess, closes over 500 million private placement to initiate Bitcoin treasury strategy. Defi Development Corp. Raises Solana Treasury holdings to 999,999. Sold. Buy one more, guys.
- [13:30]
Andrew
Listen, it's a million. The name Blank Check Company is objectively awesome, I've got to say. I mean that, that is if you're going to name a company to do what, what they're doing here. Blank Check Company is pretty cool.
- [13:45]
Scott Melker
I mean I'm pretty sure that's literally another name for marriage. FinTech to build 200 million soul treasury with backing from Solana Ventures Ltd. Okay, so listen, we don't really have a plan at the moment at Red Light Holland to extend beyond bitcoin. I mean I think you have the mandate to kind of do whatever. But talk to me about a bitcoin strategy, I guess, versus going down the rabbit hole of all of these other things. I mean, Todd, I know why you chose bitcoin, but maybe tell people why we haven't had a conversation yet about a Solana treasury company.
- [14:26]
Todd Shapiro
I, I would say that ultimately and it's probably the obvious answer for most is that you, you want to control the, the volatility. And, and, and while that's impossible to ever predict in, in cryptocurrency and in any markets, quite frankly, I would say that while it's not considered necessarily a stable coin, you. You can kind of like, work with it. And, and especially when you start thinking of working with Ark and Andrew and the team and stuff, there's ways to kind of buy on the way down, potentially maybe sell on the way up, maybe, you know, maybe increase your position. So there's kind of a strategy, enough of an algorithm built in for people to, To, I guess, mitigate the risk. And there's always risk. And, and, you know, it's one of the. Quite frankly, one of my board members said, like, there's gonna be some risk on you doing this. And, and I said, well, it's one I'm willing to take because look at all the companies, A, doing it. But B, I think much like I think about psychedelics, and I try to align the two too. I mean, I believe that probably a lot of your audience has tried psychedelics. I also believe a lot of people have tried purchasing bitcoin, not necessarily altcoins, right now, because they're a little more difficult to get or a little more unsure about them. And why I align those two is, let's ask people, in five years, how many more have tried psychedelics? How many more have tried buying bitcoin? And I think it's just kind of like this. There's a lot of people in this world, and there's a lot of people looking for personal sovereignty, like I said. So people will do this stuff responsibly and do it with education and do it informed.
- [15:56]
Andrew
And I think bitcoin, you can do.
- [15:57]
Todd Shapiro
It most informed with. And when it comes to psychedelics, I.
- [16:01]
Andrew
Think that's a key.
- [16:02]
Todd Shapiro
I know it's corny and cheesy for me. Time these in, by the way, but.
- [16:04]
Andrew
That is a key for people using.
- [16:07]
Todd Shapiro
A banned substance right now in 99% of the world, is that you want to make sure you do it informed and responsibly. And bitcoin provides that too, not just for companies, but it provides it for just your regular, everyday new purchaser.
- [16:21]
Scott Melker
Yeah. A few years ago, I thought bitcoin was going to be a banned substance in 99% of the world. So it really does, I think, resonate with anybody who's here. So for me, as I've been thinking through this, a lot More and being pitched more and more of these things. It comes back to the balance sheet versus treasury idea. I don't think you can have a balance sheet company for any other asset. I think bitcoin's the only one that people can say, listen, I want my company to be holding this in 50 years. Right? Well you can build a Treasury company around these others. Actually though, and I would argue as I'm thinking through it, that might be a better trade even than bitcoin treasury companies because beating Bitcoin is almost impossible, which is what Bitcoin treasury companies to do. But maybe doing some financial engineering to beat Solana is actually easier for these companies.
- [17:13]
Andrew
Well, there's the ethos of the why of bitcoin and then there's the reality, right? So I wouldn't go so far as to say that Larry Fink and BlackRock are somehow co joined in the ethos of the why of bitcoin. But then there's also the reality. And the reality is, is that Larry Fink and BlackRock believe that Bitcoin's going to 500k to 700k, like that's a reality. It's their biggest product. If you are anti bitcoin in any way, if you are skeptical of bitcoin, you are taking the other side of the trade of Larry Fink like that. That is not a reasonable position to take. So to that end, putting yourself in a position to add Bitcoin to your balance sheet as a company or as an, as an individual, frankly is a very, very smart trade. And it's the kind of trade that is now has a high floor and high ceiling. And those are the best trades to take across every financial market in the history of mankind. High floor and high ceiling, Bitcoin ETFs. Forget about treasury companies and even balance sheet companies. The large, the, the largest inflows are still coming from Bitcoin ETFs across the board. So there's your high floor right there. Your high ceiling is just the nature of Bitcoin in totality. And the additional inflows that are coming from Treasuries, from balance sheets, nation states, states like Texas, none of this is slowing down. None of it is slowing down. So adding it to your balance sheet again is adding additional operational profits to your business. And it's a, it's a no brainer. It's very easy to have the conversation with your board or shareholders and say, guys, I get it, I understand the questions. But here's a picture of Larry Fink's Face, he believes in it. He pretty good, he's pretty good at making these kinds of calls. And he is doubling down again and again and again and almost turning into the CMO of bitcoin. So I don't know, maybe we should follow the road that he's traveling.
- [19:39]
Todd Shapiro
In your thoughts, Andrew Scott, how many more just I know we talk about, you know, the big Blackrocks or Tom Lee's or you know, we can go delve into the really big names behind the space, but how many more just again I say it, regular Joe's and Jill's are coming up to you or reaching out to you and saying like, hey, how do I buy? Or like I just want a part of one. I just want to. If people are still learning, by the way, you could still just buy fractions of bitcoin. Like this is the stuff that amazes me for as long as I've been talking about it. And as Scott mentioned, you know, when I used to have a, you know, old radio show, I mean I talked about this relentlessly like it was non stop back in 20, 2013, 2014. I hosted conferences in 2018 in Bitcoin. But it's amazing how many people are still discovering it and finding out how to do it. So in your thoughts, like is that a wave that is coming as well do you think?
- [20:30]
Scott Melker
Andrew, I would love you to take that one first.
- [20:32]
Andrew
Yeah, so, so you're absolutely right. So, so to give you an idea, across the world of wealth management, just bitcoin in general is not readily available. If you're somebody who's worth three million dollars and you've got a two million dollar account at UBS right now, you can't go and buy even access to the ETFs without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. Not to mention buying spot bitcoin, you may not even know how to do that. So there is several other levels of discovery that are coming, like no question about it. Right. And so that that investor class of 50 to 75 years old, they're putting themselves in a position to where maybe I should, you know, 1% of my portfolio, maybe even 3%. That's why BlackRock, not only Larry Fink, but in their, you know, the white papers they put out, the research papers that they put out, they're talking about 1%, 3%, 5% allocation because they're speaking to the investor class. I'll give you another idea. Rick Edelman, who's the largest RIA guy on the.
- [21:43]
Scott Melker
Damn it, you took my thing. I Talked to him yesterday and I was going to tell you all about it, but you go first. He's my podcast for Sunday. Yeah, yeah.
- [21:51]
Andrew
So basically Rick has said, and Rick, by the way, is the Larry Fink of financial advisors. Like 70% of financial advisors don't work at Morgan Stanley, UBS and Merrill Lynch. They, they work for other organizations that most people on that are watching this haven't heard of. But, but that's the reality of, of financial advisors. Rick Edelman is their Larry Fink because he went from zero to building a $300 billion practice. Like extraordinary. Right? Well, to his point, he's basically like, if you don't give your clients access to bitcoin, you are short bitcoin, which is a terrible idea. Right. So his commentary has been, you absolutely should be at 3 to 5%, even 10% bitcoin allocation. And he moved that up and said in the last couple of weeks, says, you know, call me crazy, but you should have 40% allocation to Bitcoin. Right. So there are levels of this that have yet to hit what I would call high net worth. And another phrase that's used in wealth management called mass affluent. Mass affluent are people that have like 300,000 to 900,000 in investable assets. Right. That bitcoin and what bitcoin is and why they should be in it has not materially hit that investor class. But it's coming, it's going to happen.
- [23:14]
Scott Melker
I literally talked to Rick yesterday for an hour. I was yesterday years old when I found out he sometimes watches us on this show. Yeah. And he was like referencing things that have happened on the show and newsletter. I was mind blown because he is, I called him the Michael Jordan of advisors. That was a good way to warm it up. You know, like the first question, I hear you're Michael Jordan. You're going to have a good conversation after that. Right. But he said exactly what you did. And he thinks that there's a humongous wall of people that want access and still don't even have it, as you said. So he obviously, he said it's even worse, I think at the large umbrella rias, the schwa, Morgan Stanley's and you know, all the big names. But even for the ones that are not under the umbrella, the guys who want to do it usually have to go to like the boss who's 65 and is like, why am I going to take the reputational risk of unlocking this now when I'm retiring next year?
- [24:09]
Todd Shapiro
Yeah. The other thing that's interesting, I Find, you know, when we talk about sort of an older generation getting into it, by the way, I'm old too, hence doing a podcast in my bedroom because I got a five year old downstairs. Not wanting to interrupt this. You know, the interesting thing is a lot of my friends who are, I'm 52, who are sort of in their 50s and 60s are, are still inquiring about it, but they have kids who are actually like 1922 and they're buying bitcoin and they're like, they're teaching their parents on how to go to an exchange like Kraken or whatever it may be and saying like, listen, this is how. Just the idea of learning how to do it is interesting as well, transactionally and just to understand the protocols. And I think the, the education aspect of it all, again, for the regular people out there are not talking about the blackrocks of the world, but I think it's an important thing to learn. Like, so you put in 100 bucks, you have like very little to lose or you know, a few hundred bucks, whatever. But understand what it is to hold it in a wallet to get your address too. And I think it's literally like you think of financial education that should be mandatory at this point.
- [25:14]
Scott Melker
Yeah, he said, I asked him, I said, listen, you've been writing about this since 2012. So he actually has a huge organization. For years it's been educating rias on crypto, like very quietly he's been a bull. But even in 2021 he said 1% allocation. And Andrew, we've talked about this thousands of times. We're like, God, we would kill for BlackRock to say 1% allocation. They're now saying 3 to 5.
- [25:36]
Andrew
But.
- [25:36]
Scott Melker
And I was like, why did you go from one to 40 in four years? And he said the same thing we've heard many times here, which is at a risk. Adjusted basis. Bitcoin is the cheapest and safest it's ever been now because it's not going to zero and it's not going to be a banned substance. But he said, because exactly what you just said, Todd, you get your feet wet and you never go back. People don't become anti bitcoiners who own it and watch it go up over time and feel what it's like to have it. But he said, listen, I can sell somebody, anybody on taking 1% and saying, listen, if this 1% 10x is great, you like rebalance and you've made money. If you lose 1%, you won't even notice. So to him it was like he wanted to say 20 even in 20, 21 or a higher number but he wouldn't say it because he thought that that wasn't the time. But now he's literally saying 40% if you're aggressive.
- [26:28]
Andrew
And he's right about, you know, the risk adjusted stuff. There's never been a 2 trillion dollar asset in the history of US markets that's ever. Yeah, it's never happened. That's, that was probably the favorite, my favorite quote that I heard at the bitcoin conference. I happened to say it so that's of course why it was my favorite. But it remains true. Like there's never been a 2 trillion dollar asset that, that, that's, that's failed or gone to zero. So the risk adjusted portion of that conversation is reality. And again I come back to this truth. BlackRock has done the math. They're putting their name on papers and on research that say if we get to 3 to 5% allocation across a larger swath of high net worth portfolios, Bitcoin absolutely is going to 5 to 700k. And that's probably a little bit light. So it's almost written in the scrolls like we're getting there, we are going to get there. Now what the pathway looks like and the timing and all that stuff is fine but we are going to get there. We just are so putting it on your balance sheet. It's a no brainer, no brainer.
- [27:52]
Todd Shapiro
We appreciate that. And listen, it was through a lot of corporate governance and meetings and pitching and showing hopefully potential results. I have to be a little more careful when I talk about it. But is it safe to say at least Sorry, the older interviewer is coming out on me but thinking ask the question, it's not just answer but is it safe to say that the stigma should end around bitcoin? It used to be talked about an investment as a hedge, as a store of value only. But at this point is it safe to say that no, it's just part of your overall portfolio.
- [28:25]
Scott Melker
I kind of said that to him as well. And yeah, I think for bitcoin, yes, but I think that the beauty of bitcoin is that it can be anything to anyone. There's still going to be the people who buy it because they're libertarians and want to self custody and multi sig and opt out of government nonsense. The majority of people if bitcoin is going to a million bucks are going to be people who like have it in their IRA or 401k as 3 to 5% through an ETF. And it works for all of those and it works the same for their portfolios for a government, an institution or an individual. But like it's a ticker on CNBC next to Tesla and Amazon. Right. Every day this is, it's not going anywhere. And now Ethereum is too and maybe Solana. Right. So we're kind of seeing it slowly trickle in.
- [29:10]
Andrew
Yeah, the stick, the stigma is going away, Todd, to answer your question even more directly. And again the reason why it's going away is anybody. I saw a post by somebody and Lyn Alden absolutely ratioed the shit out of that post. And, and because it was like oh, you know, bitcoin Bros. Or so whatever, you know, it's just number go up. And Lynn Alden you know, basically said at some point number go up over 16 years is, you know, fairly. It's reasonable to consider. And, and so, so that's the narrative route. The narrative now is, you know, if Larry Fink and Blackrock and Fidelity and you know, Bitwise and you know, Franklin Templeton, if all of these firms are breaking records associated with assets being allocated to their Bitcoin ETFs, the argument's over. It's now a asset class in the world of traditional finance. Period. End of story. And so all you have to do, whenever somebody is making a, an anti bitcoin argument, you just say listen, I, I appreciate your thoughts but. But you are taking the opposite trade of some of the smartest minds on Wall Street. And generally speaking that hasn't worked out. When was the last time by the way?
- [30:38]
Scott Melker
These guys are just getting here.
- [30:40]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [30:40]
Scott Melker
For anybody who thinks it's the top, like listen, I don't know, like maybe for the month or three months, six months. I have no idea where price go but like these guys are just arriving. Brandon Lutnick from Canter Fitzgerald just said yesterday, wants to convert the entire Canner Fitzgerald strategy into like investing in bitcoin treasury companies. Yeah, they're not doing that because it's the dead top. Like there's a. Yeah, yeah, they're not Runway. Andrew, before you jump in, let me show you a few things because I want your comment on this yesterday. I don't have the story here but we. Charles Schwab said they're going to allow spot trading for bitcoin and Ethereum. Charles Schwab, Chuck. Right, but forget that even fact. It's the way they talked about. They said A we're going to compete with Coinbase and B we want it to be a part of everyone's portfolio that they can do all the things they do with their portfolio that doesn't take a genius to figure out they mean lending alongside your securities. Buy, borrow, die. Right? Well, what announcement did we get today? I don't know if you saw this. JP Morgan explores lending secured by clients cryptocurrencies. So it took all of three days for Jamie Dimon to shit his pants when Charles Schwab announced that this was going to happen. Oh by the way, Apollo's private credit trade finds new audience on blockchain. They're giving crypto native investors blockchain based access to their private credit strategies through a partnership with Securitize. I know that's a word salad but it's huge. And of course Citadel, this is my favorite securities asked SEC to tread cautiously on tokenization. If you listen to Ken Griffin and their comments on this, they basically said slow down bro, because this is going to fuck us if you don't let us catch up. Like yeah, we know it's coming but calm down guys, you need us.
- [32:17]
Todd Shapiro
Well, you know what's amazing about that is is I think back to when probably we all started talking about it and, and that word disruption came up a lot, right? And, and, and you know, how it's disrupting the system and how you know eventually people will transform and, and get involved in it. But you're right like at this point Scott, it's that sort of domino effect. It's all the big names are now like, all the big names are involved and, and if they're not, they're upping, they' involved. So what does that do then to eventual liquidity? And I asked this because you see the odd story where a crypto whale held on for the last 15 years and sold X billion worth but it doesn't seem to affect the price anymore.
- [32:59]
Scott Melker
Like last Week guy sold 80,000 Bitcoin last week. We have people talking about in the comments, what about all the OGs who are currently selling? This guy said what OG is the one that sold 80,000. He literally sold 80,000 Bitcoin onto the open market via Galaxy. And maybe price, I don't know if it affected it but we got down to what, 116 or something. We're ranging in a 3% range. But I can tell you a lot of these guys have cashed out, a lot of them. And who fucking blame them, right? Like if you were an original OG Bitcoin Libertarian from 2010 or like F the government and Wall street and you bought Bitcoin for 5 cents, now you're worth 10 billion. And we're talking about JP Morgan and Charles Schwab. This might be a good time to like take some chips off the table. And I'll tell you, most of them are doing it by sending their Bitcoin into Treasury companies. That's selling with street cred. You don't have to say you're selling.
- [33:50]
Andrew
Commenting.
- [33:52]
Todd Shapiro
Sorry, Andrew, imagine how many early private investors in Tesla, in Apple and Google. Like you don't think those, those guys would have sold as well while prices went up. Like that's a common.
- [34:05]
Scott Melker
The difference is there's not like a whole community that know they did it transparently. It hates them till the end of time for actually caring about making.
- [34:13]
Todd Shapiro
Isn't that interesting?
- [34:18]
Andrew
Principally the reason why you know all the headlines that you just talked about Charles Schwab, Apollo, Citadel, JP Morgan, they, those organizations in their current life cycle, they're reactionary, right? They're, they're, they've not been in a position to act versus react in a long time because they're big, they're large. For a long time they've thought that they've set the agenda, but here's the reality that they're coming to terms with. Coinbase has 120 million customers. JP Morgan, the biggest bank on the planet, only has 86 million. So that's the truth, right? Coinbase from a eyeballs and wallets standpoint is bigger than JP Morgan. It's 2x bigger than bank of America, right? So these changes and additions, it's 10x bigger than Charles Schwab, by the way. So these changes and updates and we gotta do this and we better get there now or else none of these customers at Coinbase are ever going to sniff Charles Schwab or JP Morgan. They don't care and they're, they're not gonna, I'm telling you right now, Coinbase is going to get a banking license within the next 18 months. Absolutely no doubt about it.
- [35:40]
Scott Melker
Okay, you know what? Do you know what Coinbase did get yesterday? Okay, go ahead, finish.
- [35:44]
Andrew
So, so why if you're a Coinbase customer, irrespective of all the things that, if you live in the silo of crypto, is negative about Coinbase, forget about all that. From 50, 000ft, if you're a Coinbase customer, you have access to everything you've ever needed other than walking into a bank branch, right? So people that are 30 years old have never essentially been in a bank branch.
- [36:06]
Todd Shapiro
They also don't know how to talk to people in real life.
- [36:08]
Andrew
That's just right. Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly right. So why would you, why would you ever leave Coinbase, or Robinhood for that matter? Why would you ever use anything else? You. You wouldn't.
- [36:21]
Scott Melker
Robinhood already has their banking partnership announced a few months ago. It hasn't launched, but to your point, they're all doing so.
- [36:26]
Andrew
So. So is there a better chance that Coinbase leaks customers or JP Morgan leaks customers? We know the answer to that. So. So that's the reason why these 200 year old organizations or 50 year old organizations are scrambling around crypto, right? It's the truth.
- [36:48]
Scott Melker
Yeah. Todd, I know you're about to jump in, but I want to show you what was like the biggest news ever that went wildly underreported. You can trade perps on Coinbase. Perpetual futures have arrived in the US for Bitcoin and Ethereum. Coinbase up to 10x leverage, I believe now is full on like Bitmex. You can go on there and trade perpetual swaps and you can gamble away all your money.
- [37:13]
Andrew
That would have been the biggest news of the year. That have been the biggest news of the year two years ago, dude.
- [37:20]
Scott Melker
Leverage on Coinbase up to 10x and not just like CME futures perps. This is absolutely insane. And it's like, whatever, dude, genius act.
- [37:31]
Todd Shapiro
But, but Scott or Andrew, how. How much of that stuff, or you know, call it the pump dot funds or whatever it may be, like, how much of that still fears you? As we were talking about ending stigmas earlier, like, you know, how do you, how do you kind of guide people into like what we think is safe here or, or truly, hey, you're gambling. But by the way, like, you can gamble, but just know you're gambling.
- [37:50]
Scott Melker
Sweet.
- [37:51]
Andrew
By the way. So. So perps is not gambling. Even though we hear, you know, 10x or whatever it is. The truth of the matter is, is.
- [38:00]
Scott Melker
That the way people in crypto use perps is gambling. Just. Yeah, that's not the product itself, but.
- [38:05]
Andrew
The 10x type of thing already exists in the world of S P and it's irrelevant. Dow futures. Right? And, and so that already happens, like at a place like Tradestation. If you're going to trade within a day or two, they're going to give you essentially 10x leverage on your position. You're only going to have to post 10% of that position to be able to trade 100% of that contract. Right? So that. That's already inbred into the regular financial system. This is now crypto again, catching up. So if you're able to do that with Bitcoin and Ethereum, you know, over time, and there's additional volatility, of course, with no version of it going to zero, because assets of this scale don't go to zero. So if you're doing it with extra volatility, where is the, where is the, where are all the assets going to go? Where is all the, where are all the trades going to go? They're going to migrate away from, you know, traditional futures. They're going to, they're going to move to Perth. Of course, again, this is why 24 7. Yeah. This is why these legacy organizations are, you know, if they're not having lots and lots of meetings, they're falling behind really quickly.
- [39:19]
Scott Melker
Well, funny thing about this is this isn't. Yeah, go ahead.
- [39:21]
Todd Shapiro
Oh, sorry, Scott. I apologize. I was just. Because I'd love to be one of their compliance guys. Like a fly on the wall to hear them.
- [39:28]
Scott Melker
Because that's what you want to be. I want to be the, the fly on the wall for the compliance guys at E Trade, like TD Ameritrade and E Trade and stuff who have seen Coinbase now do this because I was just going to say perps were built in crypto, you know, Arthur Hayes, obviously, at Bitmex, but it's not a crypto product. Like it can be used to trade anything and it's just a much better and more efficient way to trade futures and use leverage. And by the way, if you use it responsibly, you're using it to hedge against a cash position. There's nothing gambling about that. And you can post. You could put 10% of the money you would have had to put on exchange to trade this at 100 spot. So you have reduced the counterparty risk of coins on exchange if you're a believer in self custody. So it is a much more efficient, better way to do this. And you can very transparently, every eight hours, see where people are positioned because shorts are paying longs or longs are paying short based on the funding rate. It's just a better product. But this is also a better product for trading Amazon stock and Tesla and the qs. Right. So it's coming.
- [40:32]
Todd Shapiro
By the way, does that amaze you every day about, you know, you think about sophisticated investing and, you know, you think whether it's institutional or retail, but how many retail investors, men, women, it doesn't matter. Of all age groups are very sophisticated. Right? Like, like it's pretty without Any formal, like education or it's that I love as well like that people have. You know, you think of the power of the people, the power of personal freedom, the power, the power of your own health, the power of whatever we want to do and, and, and, and, and the power of investments. But look, you can learn this stuff. It's really, it's really quite, it's quite inspiring actually.
- [41:11]
Scott Melker
It is. The only thing that concerns me is like at the very core, like you should not, and this is why I'm a bitcoiner, like you should not have to learn how to invest just to beat the devaluation of your money, which is what literally everyone has to do. Like it's so easy because you just buy bitcoin and you denominate your life in bitcoin and obviously you don't worry about inflation anymore. Your thousand bitcoin house is 100 bitcoin house now. Right. But like to expect that your average individual who's making 20 bucks an hour or whatever is going to find a way to take the full time job of like beating that devaluation by becoming a savvy investor is really, really, really, really hard. And that only exists because of inflation. If your money held value in this world, you would never have to invest in anything.
- [41:59]
Todd Shapiro
Fair enough. But with that being said, if it's a time thing, Scott, I don't know if that's what you're referring to in terms of time spent versus time working.
- [42:07]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I'm just saying if you're super busy, it's really, I agree with you. Like it's amazing that people can't. You can do all the things you used to need an investment visor or one of these companies.
- [42:16]
Todd Shapiro
Or how about just don't watch that Netflix series, you know? You know what I mean? Like there's, it's, I don't know, you.
- [42:23]
Scott Melker
Find the time for the shit that matters.
- [42:24]
Todd Shapiro
Yeah, money matters.
- [42:27]
Scott Melker
I mean, yeah, absolutely. But like these products. I guess the overarching point here is that all of the things that you can do in crypto and all the things that you can do in Tradfire are finding very quick match.
- [42:45]
Andrew
Crypto innovation is pressing traditional markets. They are pressing traditional financial institutions. They are pressing the markets themselves. They are pressing the, you know, quote unquote institutions that, that make up the markets, right? The exchanges themselves, pressing them to go to, you know, 24 hour trading. All that's going to be two years from now. The conversation will be very, very different. And the way that it will be different Is that so much of what we understood crypto to be, 24 hour trading tokens, you know, securities versus non series, all that stuff will have migrated to traditional markets and they effectively won't turn off again. Most people don't know this but again to perps versus futures in the traditional markets. Futures trade six days a week. They only turn off from the end of, of trading on Friday. They turn back on on Sunday in the afternoon. So you know, Sunday to Friday they're, they're trading 24, seven, they're on. If you want to make a futures trade you can do it at 8:30 at night. Now liquidity is limited to say the least but they're on. And so some of this stuff already exists. People don't know about it. So the migration of it and the pressing of changes will happen. It is pretty remarkable that no meaningful change has happened in finance and let's call it the past 30, 40 years, but it's all happening effectively in about 30 months right now. There's going to be massive, massive change that happens in a 30.
- [44:24]
Todd Shapiro
As the, as the CEO of a publicly traded company of course red light hall. And even though it's you know, really just on the smaller exchange on the Canadian Securities Exchange and you know, we're not even the TSX venture, you guys count.
- [44:35]
Scott Melker
I was kidding at the beginning you guys.
- [44:37]
Todd Shapiro
Yeah, no, we, and we can't, we, we, you know, yes, but, but I, I, I beg and plead for if it ever goes 247 trading I, I think every CEO, every company deserves much like a baseball season or hockey season. Like you get a week off. Like you just get a week with like you're allowed to choose on any week of the year they were not. So you shut down on a Friday and you don't open up to a week Monday, give us a break. Because it's tough to keep score every day. You know that's the stuff that when you're on this side, especially when things aren't going great at times it's you don't, you never want to be a part of something that's like a losing team. You only want to be going up, clearly. So sometimes people deserve a break.
- [45:14]
Scott Melker
You know, your business is so beholden to the general environment around the industry and not to the specifics of your business. Which by the way like anyone who's ever traded Altcoin knows that if one goes down, they kind of all go down generally when it's bad. And we all know that that's been the case for the Crypto industry in general, it's like if all the regulation is going against you for four years, for example, like everybody just stops operating, you know, and things just look bleak.
- [45:45]
Todd Shapiro
Well, you know, for red light hall and what, you know, if you don't mind me just talking about the company, what we're most proud of is, you know, when you go public and you wait a regulatory process and you hope that changes are coming, more positive news flow will be happen in the space. And most importantly, we're a mental health company. Like we want to help human beings, we want to get access to veterans, we want to get help for those people in post traumatic stress disorder. Like nobody sells recreational product, which we do in the Netherlands as responsibly as we do with telecounselling support, with community events. We really care about the end consumer with contraindications labeled on the boxes that most people don't think to sell them like. So we become self regulatory. But relating that back to how that works for longevity in the stock and things is we are cautious with the cash because in an era of raising capital you would just go boom, didn't matter, dilute, raise more, keep going. And at some point when you have a good horse in the race, which we do, I think 40 companies went public when we went public in our psychedelic sector, I think only six or seven remain right now. If you were to look at runways in terms of cash burn per quarter, we feel we're doing it extraordinarily well while increasing revenue and of course making a big difference. Partnering with Dr. Robin Carhart Harris, doing partnerships with Arizona State University, getting product from the Netherlands from an FDA and DEA quota into a FDA and NDA compliant laboratory in California to advance product and standardization. So but you gotta do these things slowly. And did the bitcoin people feel that way sometimes? Do they accept that things were gonna just. You gotta kind of sit back and. And the rest of the world will hopefully catch up?
- [47:27]
Andrew
Yeah, I think you have to evaluate the term slowly because we've been fighting this battle since essentially, you know, 2012. Right. A reminder that the Winklevoss twins at Gemini, they, they applied for a spot Bitcoin ETF in 2013. The spot Bitcoin ETF was finally approved in January of 2024. So nine years, no, excuse me, 11 years later, it was so, so, so to your point, done the work of the ups and downs, done the work of trying to do it the right way, you know, done the work of finally getting into a position where it's Undeniable at this point, the wave of innovation is undeniable. And we find ourselves what I like to call the renaissance of crypto. We're in the renaissance of the space right now. We have regulatory wide open spaces. We have innovation happening like crazy. We have companies popping up all over and we have adoption based on nothing more than usage and ownership exploding across the space. So never been better to be here and certainly have. Have put the work in over time. No question about it. But. But, you know, certainly it's frustrating. I mean, the previous four years and the, the regulatory, just absolute. If you were a crypto company of any scale that was meaningful in any way, shape or form, you got sued, period. End of story. In the United States.
- [49:09]
Scott Melker
Well, notice it's like Oprah with the giveaways. You get a.
- [49:13]
Andrew
Well, yeah. Instead of innovation, it was how much money do we have to be able to pay lawyers to survive? That's what it was. Which, you know, I assume in your industry has been the case to some extent over periods of time. Right. How do we survive? How do we not only exist as a business, but based on regulatory environment, sentiment, all those things, how there were stretches where, hey, it's just about survival. It's been the same thing in crypto. Now here we are, right?
- [49:46]
Scott Melker
Absolutely. We are running up against time. Go ahead, Todd. I see. I have a comment. I don't care about time, by the way. I've.
- [49:52]
Todd Shapiro
Oh, no, no, I could do this. I could do this forever. I was just sort of more thinking about, you know, does. And I don't know enough about this side of it, but where does this sort of US Digital dollar start coming into. Into as a sort of true, kind of in a way that's forced upon everybody. But in a digital system, is that still in the works?
- [50:15]
Scott Melker
I mean, that's been one of the huge conversations of crypto week on Capitol Hill last week was actually the biggest point of contention was putting in language very specifically that was anti central bank digital currency. That didn't happen in the Genius act, but the act passed. That is specific to that. Trump just did not want it in the Genius Act. He didn't want it to mud, mud, mud, muddy up the waters of getting that done. But yeah, it's a huge point of conversation. Let's be honest. I think private stablecoins regulated in the United States can operate like central bank digital currencies without the Fed actually issuing one themselves. But I think on the positive side is what stablecoins do is just unlock a massive wall of Capital around the world that's been unavailable to financial markets. I think that's kind of the bigger story with stablecoins.
- [51:05]
Todd Shapiro
Here's an odd question. Maybe is there ever a coin that is symbolic, especially in your country. You guys are really divided. Is there ever a coin that's symbolic of kind of your party representation?
- [51:19]
Scott Melker
Yeah. Trump token.
- [51:22]
Todd Shapiro
You know, I bought that Trump token, by the way, and I like, I put it like a few grand into it and I made money. But I was actually really disheartened by that. I, I really was. Because, you know, you felt like, wow, he's, he's pro crypto. The amends pro crypto. But like, like, and then there's like the millennium coin that a rug pull. Again, I'm just talking as an average guy. That's why we have Scott, you know, working on our, our team and, and Andrew, you helping us out as well at red light home because as we're.
- [51:52]
Scott Melker
Not working on a trump strategy.
- [51:54]
Andrew
No, no. So, so a couple things with that. Right. So, you know, free markets. Right. So can do that. There's not been a rug pull. They still exist. They haven't done well. Not expected to do well. But free markets exist. Right. So to your point, is there a, is there a coin that kind of represents. One could make the case if you were to put pull the, let's call it politics up and down the chain, social, economic, all those things of bitcoiners. Certainly we're going to skew a bit to the right. I think that's a truth. Right. But at the same time, you know, does something embody, you know, one movement or another, we certainly haven't got there. But you know, bitcoin in and of itself has been a, you know, started out as a very libertarian movement, a cypherpunk movement, and now here we are with blackrock and Larry Fink being the, you know, the de facto leaders of the movement. So things change and shift. No doubt about it.
- [53:00]
Todd Shapiro
Is there ever a world a scenario though where if there is this, you know, more of these stable coins and U S digital dollar and stuff that it, where it works on the blockchain, where it's like a smart contract for taxes or for charitable, charitable donations or so like that kind of where it's headed?
- [53:19]
Andrew
Yeah, I, I, absolutely that's the case. The reason being genius act and all that stuff, everybody is excited. Oh, stable coins and blah, blah, blah. You know, we're gonna make sure it's really, all we're really talking about is settlement. Right. So now that stable coins are a thing that's going to take. It used to be, you know, 10 years ago, settlement was T plus 3. So if you sold an asset of security or something, you know, that was associated with an exchange that took three days to settle, then it went down to T +1. Stable coins effectively make it T0. Right. As soon as you sell something immediately it can get moved one way or the other that will get integrated into the overall. They'll get integrated into banks. That'll be just another shift in banking that will happen. That for all intents intensive purposes now is legal and okay for that innovation to happen.
- [54:11]
Todd Shapiro
Happen.
- [54:12]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [54:13]
Todd Shapiro
Hey Scott, what's the weirdest request you've received from someone about just bitcoin? Like so not, not weirdest request. The strangest person that approached you and you're like I didn't think this would ever happen. Like you have a story like that.
- [54:26]
Scott Melker
I wish I did, but I'm trying to think. I mean you're just a very strange people in crypto.
- [54:34]
Todd Shapiro
As a company it's.
- [54:36]
Scott Melker
More, more on the negative side. Like you know like we've, we've definitely had the like the market went down. It's entirely your fault, like I'm coming for your children shit, which is not like very entertaining or whatever but a very big part of this industry and being a transparent non avatar human being who's actually advocating for this stuff. So it comes on both sides. But listen, I mean I would just say that broadly like when you get in a battle with any of the really die hard communities, think like XRP army link Marines back in the day, the hexagons like Cardano, you can see some wild, wild comments and people have very like extreme beliefs about the asset that they love, which is frankly just because they're massive bag holders. And yeah, yeah, it's not too dissimilar.
- [55:25]
Todd Shapiro
Sometimes in the, in the micro cap industry.
- [55:29]
Scott Melker
Yeah, yeah, you said that this stuff was good. Now the stock is bad but the stuff is still good man. Like give me a break. Yeah. So Todd, Andrew and I usually talk about arch public at the end. Andrew. You got a few more minutes, Todd? Yeah, because I want, I want Todd to see this, you know.
- [55:46]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Scott Melker
Active pitch. This is not what we're going to be doing. But this is actually. Correct me if I'm wrong but Andrew, I brought this up because you had sent it to me not for the show but randomly the other day.
- [55:57]
Andrew
Yeah. It, it is just our futures algorithms which by the way are tax advantaged way to markets and our crypto. Yeah, this is not crypto. This is another side of our business that frankly we've made people have to qualify for this part of their business. But in the last 50 days, so June and July, we have 10 futures algorithms, right? So in the past 50 days, these are the returns for our futures algorithms up to 18 and as low as 4%. None of those, none of those 10 algorithms have gone down. And collectively, by the way, and there's, you know, we can do math and, and about how you're allocated, but that's more than a hundred percent in 50 days, right? If you were allocated equally to all those Algos, that's more than 150 days. So extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary stuff. And that's on a part of our business that's smaller than the crypto work that we do with Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Solana, Ethereum, XRP and, and Sui. These are binary outcomes, right? Take a trade, exit a trade. What's the return look like after that happens? And I think something like 37 of the last, like 42 trades across all 10 algos have been positive. Just exceptional stuff. Our team is constantly optimizing our products. So our development portion of our business, their work is only creating product and then making sure that that product is optimized as often as humanly possible to make sure that they're keeping up with the dynamic markets that they exist in. And so our customers are extraordinarily happy and thrilled. And then of course, we get to the crypto side of things. And as an example, right, so our Algos were buying in the middle of the night at 77, 78 and 79 at the height of the, the, the tariff panic, you know, our Algos were buying at 98.99 when the United States bombed Iran. And where are we at now? Well, we were at 119 and then we went to 117. In the past, they sold it, by.
- [58:21]
Scott Melker
The way, for those who are actually using the arbitrage one, not just the dollar cost averaging, you've noticed they sold the dead top and we're buying again.
- [58:29]
Andrew
Yeah, no, no question about it. And then, for example, with, with Solana, right? So Solana, I think up above 200 earlier today, you know, we were buying at 106 or. And again, it's completely hands off. So you hit click, you plug in and then if you're buying at 106 at 2:30 in the morning, while you're sleeping, the algorithms, that's the whole point of algorithms, they're doing it for you there are rules and there's math behind all of it. And I mean effectively almost got a double inside of a few months. So, you know, rules matter. We are effectively way ahead of the curve. The truth of the matter is, is that as larger and larger and larger institutions and as the the crypto market grows and grows and grows and grows, what happens in traditional markets? So there's nobody left at the cbot. That floor doesn't even exist anymore. There's nobody left on the cme, there's nobody on the NYSE floors. It's all done algorithmically. 80% of all trades in traditional markets are done algorithmically. That doesn't happen in crypto, but it will. So we're ahead of everybody. So if you're using our products, you are ahead of everyone you're trading against. Because crypto markets haven't got so big that the black rocks of the world, the JP Morgan's of the world, even the coinbases of the world haven't figured out the ability to accumulate positions algorithmically. We'll get there three to five years from now that will be ubiquitous. No question about it. But we're the only ones doing it right now. We're the only ones that can talk to you and say what do you want to get accomplished? Do you want additional cash yield? Do you want to accumulate and do it intelligently? Do you want to do five versions of both across six different symbols? Yes is the answer to all of those questions. We'll figure out how to do it with you. And our, our staff are absolutely incredible from a service you're also way better.
- [60:28]
Todd Shapiro
That people could want.
- [60:29]
Andrew
Right?
- [60:29]
Todd Shapiro
Like you get to, you get to rest again.
- [60:32]
Andrew
That's right.
- [60:33]
Scott Melker
That honestly man, like not watching the charge 24 7, 365 like every person who uses it the best tweets like John Deaton obviously who does it is always like I woke up and I had four emails and apparently I'm a God tier trader because I bought the bottom at 3am you just can't like if you're going to trade, you can't do this. 24, 7, 365 and crypto, a lot can go bad when you're sleeping there.
- [60:59]
Andrew
There is the top 20, 20% of our clients are biggest across the board. They basically say this has shifted the way that I think about my crypto positions. I almost have gotten to the point where I want them to go down a bit because I know I'm going to buy those dips where emotionally I would not have before, I would have questioned myself. And certainly at the tops, like at 123, you know, selling when across crypto Twitter, we're thinking we're going to 125, we're going to 130. It's happening now, right? Who pulls the trigger at the top of a green candle? Emotionally nearly impossible to do, but algorithms do it for you. They're. They don't understand emotion doesn't exist to them.
- [61:45]
Scott Melker
That seems. That seems like Skynet.
- [61:50]
Andrew
Well, until we get to the marvelous.
- [61:53]
Scott Melker
Robots are coming for us.
- [61:55]
Andrew
Yeah, let's use the good Skynet before we get to the bad sky.
- [61:58]
Todd Shapiro
Hey, maybe we're the first renditions of that. Okay. And they're just increasing, right?
- [62:02]
Scott Melker
That's right. That's right. Well, you guys could find this@archpublic.com of course. And I mean shit, you hear us talk about it every week. We show you the results every single week. And how often do you see me use and promote something? Right? And this is the reason once again, going back to the very beginning, we're going to wrap a bow on this red light. Holland announces bitcoin balance sheet strategy. And named Scott Melker as lead cryptocurrency advisor. One of these called me the crypto czar, which I thought was pretty cool, to be honest. I. I love it. I've never been before.
- [62:34]
Todd Shapiro
Oh, sorry I keep interrupting, man.
- [62:36]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I love that. I love that about you. I need you. We need your energy here. It's great.
- [62:41]
Todd Shapiro
Oh, great. Well, listen, you know, maybe one day you'll have me back and what I really want to see if there's an alignment between microdosers and magic mushrooms and traders. Because I. I think that's a thing. I think that's an actual thing.
- [62:52]
Andrew
Probably.
- [62:52]
Scott Melker
Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna build on that. We're gonna get high. I'm a. Okay, we're not. We don't talk about that. Yeah, we're gonna God mode some mushrooms and just says Arch Public trade for us. Don't need to look at the charts. Yeah, perfect. Oh, wow. We made it to 1007. Guys, check out Arch Public, of course. And also red light holiday. It's a lot of compliments for you in the comments, Todd. I think you should just be hosting a show here. Like you don't need us.
- [63:18]
Todd Shapiro
Ah, listen, you know, it's funny quickly. Well, they say like I kind of, you know, they say you need your 10, 000 hours. I have like my 5, 000 shows that I've done in the day. But I was actually nervous coming on here because one of the things about the crypto community is you can't bullshit them. Right?
- [63:34]
Andrew
Like, you can't. So you. You.
- [63:35]
Todd Shapiro
There's. It kind of reminds me of the comedic community too. Like, when you're a comedian, like, they smell really quickly and. And so I was, like, kind of nervous because, you know, here we are, you know, you know, big company, a lot of money, like really well known company in the psychedelic sector and getting the messaging out is important and. And I keep saying it, but that's why it's so great to have you, Scott, aboard and Andrew, with your help and guidance, and we're looking forward to the next steps.
- [64:00]
Scott Melker
We're gonna do this. We're gonna do it the right way. All right, guys, really gotta go now. I appreciate both of your time, everybody, for listening and we will see you very soon. Later, guys. Thank you. Thanks.
- [64:27]
Andrew
That's dope.