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ByBit Hacked. Chat With @KasuFinance | Crypto Town Hall
01:04:49
ByBit Hacked. Chat With @KasuFinance | Crypto Town Hall
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- [00:01]
Scott
Good morning, everybody. Happy Friday. Welcome to Crypto Town hall, which I know you missed desperately over the last four days. Carlo, who's here? Good morning, Carlo. Good morning.
- [00:14]
Carlo
Good morning, Scott.
- [00:16]
Scott
I mean, you texted me and you said, is Crypto Town hall finished? And then you said, I miss saying good morning, Scott. And here we are. Sadly, guys, Ran and Mario are way too important and famous and wealthy and established to grace us with their hosting duties when I am away. And I went away with my wife for our 13th wedding anniversary. And basically, you know, that meant that there was nobody here to do my job. So you guys were the. You were punished. I'm sorry. I was punished. We didn't have the show. We have a lot then to unpack here on a Friday parlo. I'm glad you're here because the SEC dropping charges against Coinbase, the topic here, this was reported this morning. To me, this is just massive news, although expected, that it's sort of the final blow to the Gary Gensler regulatory regulation by enforcement era. This was certainly the biggest case alongside Binance that was brought by the sec, in my opinion, and one of the ones that absolutely rocked the market specifically for Altcoins, because we were basically forced to wait for determination on what was an unregistered security and what was not. If this case is truly being dropped, then, well, that gives us a lot more clarity or at least something to interpret. So what do you make of this, Carlo?
- [01:52]
Carlo
It is a great day for crypto, and it is long overdue. I have maintained for a long time that it was probably a huge blunder for Gensler and the SEC to go after the biggest, most compliant and most desirous of having a conversation about how to further comply centralized exchange in the world, US based. They brought this suit, and it just was ludicrous to me to begin with that they would have done this. The optics were terrible, and now, as predicted, they're backtracking and there's a reset at the sec, and this is a good thing for the sector. We're not done yet. We still need to achieve much needed regulatory and legislative clarity, but getting this lawsuit out of the way. And again, it needs to be approved by the Commission, which, Scott, I don't think is going to be a big deal. The Commission had to approve the original litigation, and now that there's been a reset in the Commission members, I think that we should expect to see a resounding vote in favor of dismissing this lawsuit, which opens the door now to getting the regulatory clarity we very much need.
- [03:17]
Scott
So we can't. We, we can celebrate it as a huge win, but obviously we still need legislation, right? I mean, we still need a market structure to tell us exactly what these assets are. So we can't say today that just because this is being dropped, none of these things are unregistered securities.
- [03:34]
Carlo
Well, I think we're going to continue to see the regulators themselves, CFTC and SEC sort of repaint the lines on the playing field of what they want to police and how they want to police it. I think yesterday's announcement that they are launching this fraud task force on the SEC side is a clear indication of the direction they want to go, which, frankly, should have been the direction from day one. They should not have gotten bogged down in this debate about whether these things are investment contracts or not. They should have been looking at these things from the perspective of outright fraud to begin with. And now that tone is being reset. So legislative clarity is going to take a long time. And I don't expect that people in this sector who want to come back to the United States and want to build are going to sit on their hands and wait for definitive legislative clarity. I think they're going to parse out from the regulatory agenda what is now within the bounds of behavior, and they're probably going to see this as a very positive indicator that the United States is open for business again when it comes to crypto.
- [04:42]
Scott
And you up even going from listener to speaker. Can you speak?
- [04:47]
Lawyer
I can speak, yes.
- [04:50]
Scott
I'm so happy you showed up. We've got our crack team of legal experts here today, of lawyers. I mean, what do you make of this? Obviously you were listening to Carlo. Anything to add there?
- [04:59]
Lawyer
Well, it's just a really great day. Justice takes a long time in our system, and I know it's been very, very frustrating for a lot of people in the space, but crypto tokens are not securities. There can be a small exception to that if the token carries with it rights against the issuing entity for, like, dividends or things of that nature. Almost all tokens don't have that. And so therefore, in my opinion, crypto tokens are not securities and have never been securities. And so these cases against Coinbase and the other exchanges were misbegotten, in my view, should never have been brought and have caused a whole lot of cost, you know, to a public company in Coinbase's case, but to these other companies, you know, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. And I think they were premised on a faulty logic under the law. Now, that's not to say that an issuer, when they sell tokens to somebody, in the first instance, if they're contractual obligations going back and forth, then you have an argument that there might be an investment contract. But in any event, it is a shame that it took so long to get to the right place. I think this does signal that you will see the dismissal of the cases against the other exchanges, Kraken, Gemini and others. I think it is unfortunate for those exchanges who decided to settle before seeing the outcome of the election in November. You know, I think that that was a mistake on their part, but I think the Ripple case is the one that people will now focus on. How is that going to be resolved? Will there be a settlement? Will that settlement involve some discussion of the disposition of that $125 million that's being held in escrow? You know, is it possible. I'm asking a question, I'm not giving an opinion. Is it possible that Ripple gets some of that money back? But in any event, I think that case two will, will be dismissed or settled pretty soon.
- [07:40]
Carlo
Scott may be jammed up lawyer.
- [07:43]
Alex
I was worried that I was the only one there. So, you know, you have that awkward silence. But, yeah, no, I think this is, this is fabulous. It's exactly what you'd expect when sort of the other regime was trying to shoehorn their, their goals into a legal system that didn't really make sense. And I agree that most things are not securities. I think that what's interesting to me now is you have to go back to first principles, right? Like, we don't need to shoehorn this. We need to write new laws. And then it's a question of, okay, what sorts of tokens are there and then what sorts of tokens in those branches of types, what claims are we making and what sorts of information should people have if they're going to buy those things, right? So if it's a shitcoin and you're like, oh, it's, it's, you know, we've got vesting schedules with VCs and you all can screw yourselves, then, you know, you've got limited information and we can work with, we can talk about what needs to be shared in those cases. If it's a meme coin with no promises made, maybe much fewer, you know, especially for calling them collectibles. But I think what we need is a whole bunch of new rules that go back to first principles in terms of, okay, like, when are we lying? When are. When is of truth important and when should we hold people to that, you know, legally. I'm excited to see how that all unfolds over the next, you know, maybe few years. I also want to say one more thing while I'm on stage, which is very off topic if I can, but since Scott seems to be off.
- [09:06]
Carlo
We are hostless.
- [09:07]
Alex
We're hostless. So the cat's away. The mice will play. Kanye on Polymarket now has a 69% chance of launching a token, and I'm mildly interested in that. What I'm more interested in the question is, when something jumps from 13% to 70% on polymarket, do we think that that's usually insiders, or is that. Is it. So it's a $12 million market. Is it such thin liquidity that the chart can move on rumor so easily? I'm interested to hear what people think, but Scott's back, so I'll have to stop with that. We're still talking about.
- [09:39]
Scott
Can you guys hear me now?
- [09:40]
Alex
Yes.
- [09:40]
Scott
Yes. But am I showing you the speaker or co host?
- [09:44]
Alex
Co host.
- [09:45]
Luke
Co host.
- [09:45]
Carlo
We had a little brief coup while you were gone.
- [09:48]
Scott
Yeah, I heard you guys. I was talking. Luckily, you guys are smart enough, Carla, that you must have seen lawyer's hand up, because I was trying to call a lawyer, and then I thought he couldn't talk. You guys get gist. So I don't know exactly what I missed. I came back, and I started hearing you guys talking about Kanye. So you required my moderation. I'm just kidding.
- [10:05]
Alex
I briefly said that I. I think we should go back to first principles and think about which tokens there. Types of tokens there are and what rules should exist. And then when you left, I said, Kanye's poly market is up to 70% all of a sudden for dropping a coin in February.
- [10:19]
Carlo
That's what we need.
- [10:20]
Scott
He's got to do something. He's gonna have to do something. Now that he. That I mean, as a. As an aside, apparently he did not have a prenuptial. His wife, and he's literally the guy who wrote the song Gold Digger that said, we want prenup. We want prenup. Something that you need to have. When she leave your ass, she go leave with half. So he's gonna need to launch token. Go ahead, Alex.
- [10:40]
James
Sorry. I was just hoping you were going to sing the whole song for us there, Scott. I. I would say. Lord, I think to. To your question on the poly market trade. I think it's just herd mentality, right? Like, everyone's always trying to get ahead of everyone. Else and like watching the news, this is actually one of the things that cracked me up around the election with where they were like we don't need news or polling anymore because polymarket will predict. And I'm like, what do you think people betting on polymarket were basing their bets off of? It was off of news reports and polling data coming out.
- [11:12]
John
It's circular, I guess.
- [11:13]
Carlo
Yeah.
- [11:14]
James
But to the main thing we're talking about here, look, I think the really still difficult question when it comes to these sales and things is, look, I'm going to agree with everyone else. Crypto tokens inherent currently are not securities in almost all cases. The flip side to that is the vast majority of crypto token sales that have been done by the, you know, what I'll just call original issuer. And I'm just, I know that's a specific term, but I'm just going to use it here. I think probably have been unregistered sales of securities. If you look at how they were conducted, the promises that were made, that kind of thing, people move past that. It's easy enough to structure and figure out a way not to. But I think the really interesting question is it's about the fraud of things. Right? So we're talking about like meme coins obviously are not securities, but meme coins are very often sold in incredibly shady and not borderline over the line fraudulent ways where you know, you're pretending like you're putting the information in the marketplace. But in fact there is a cabal of insiders doing things. There are market makers prearranged to manipulate the price. There's gonna have to be, not even necessarily just from a regulatory perspective, but from a reality of the market and people being willing to engage in the long term and make it feel less like a, you know, casino where you're getting ripped off and more like a casino where you're having fun or whatever. That's going to be the challenge that's got to get dealt with.
- [12:45]
John
Actually would argue that's the easier challenge. If people are out there committing fraud and you have NSCC and a DOJ that's less focused on, you know, arguing about whether uniswap as an exchange or not or a brokerage, you can focus on the fraud. The problem is the laws as they're currently constructed make I think both issuances of these things and secondary transactions of these things, securities. And right now it actually isn't easy. Like I have these conversations with would be token issuers all the time. It's really not easy to structure something even that. You don't want to be a security in a way that is like, safe under the current law.
- [13:23]
Scott
Right.
- [13:23]
John
If you're doing a utility token, the, the network that you're billing utility for, even if you're going to market the token as just a product that works on that network, well, the value of that product goes up with the success of the network. And the success of the network is subject to your managerial efforts. Even if you're just trying to do a Meme Coin, if you want to do any advertising around that Meme Coin, like, people want to know who the team behind a Meme Coin is, and they want to know, do you have celebrities or KOLs or stuff? That's again, arguably managerial efforts to like, promote the Meme Coin. And, you know, it's reasonable to expect that the value will go up in conjunction with those efforts. So I think we, we really do need, you know, hopefully this could be accomplished with a market structure bill, but we, we really just need to redo the rules. And that seems more difficult and more urgent than like, yeah, we can go after the, the fraud bad actors. That's a clear enough target.
- [14:12]
Scott
Yeah.
- [14:13]
James
I think the biggest challenge with the fraud and the bad actors is simply the scale of it. And this is what I think. If you want to take the generous interpretation of why the SEC and other agencies took the approach that they did, if you want to assume that they had any good faith in it, it's because the scale of it's too great. And so hitting the intermediaries and the choke points was the only way to counter that and to try and put pressure on them there. I think they could have done that in a better points.
- [14:45]
Carlo
We're definitely seeing, we're definitely seeing a climate and a change in the winds with Senator Loomis and the Senate Banking Committee sending a letter to treasury requesting production of records and insisting that there will be no privileges that will be asserted, which seems to open the door for maybe a bit of probing into choke point 2.0. And we're seeing the Trump administration aggressively moving to gut and to let go several administrative judges who have kind of been the intermediary between people getting access to the judiciary when it comes to relief from aggressive SEC actions. I wanted to bring to the table this, this, this to consider. We had FTX during a climate of extreme regulatory oversight, and now we have had what has been characterized as mean coin crime season during a climate of reduced regulatory oversight. As we're kind of in this transition Period. And touching on the issue of fraud, especially from my perspective as a criminal defense lawyer, fraud doesn't care what the temperature is outside, whether it's hot or cold. Fraud is going to continue to carry on and the real dilemma for the sector is this balance between more centralized or more decentralized ecosystem. And in either scenario, whether we're overly regulated or we've got less regulation, it seems that the consumer ends up getting burned. And until we as a sector really take responsibility for educating and looking out for what I would characterize the collective self in the sector, we're going to continue to see bad behavior. And if we don't take that initiative, then we are just begging for the regulators to come back in and do it for us. So this is a great day for crypto, but it's a harsh reminder that we could really swing back the other way if we don't clean up our house.
- [16:45]
Scott
Can you guys hear me now? Yes, yes. Okay, perfect. We have some breaking news that we're looking for confirmation but Zach XBT apparently has confirmed that Bybit official speaking on fraud by bit by bit Hot wallet was just hacked. A multi signed $1.5 billion worth of ETH was withdrawn to the new address and is currently being sold. We're looking more deeply into that. Obviously this is just coming out as breaking news but wow, $1.5 billion would be quite a bit of Ethereum for a hack to be said.
- [17:24]
John
That would be the biggest, biggest heist in human history.
- [17:27]
Carlo
We just can't catch a break man. We just can't.
- [17:30]
Alex
How do you. I'm just curious, how do you even spend any of that? What's the point?
- [17:34]
Scott
They're going to negotiate $5 billion in a hot wallet.
- [17:37]
Alex
No, I don't even. I don't mean like Brewster's Millions, like how do you do it? I mean like this person's going to get caught. There's like seems like you're better off robbing a lot less from and then having cash.
- [17:47]
Scott
Right?
- [17:47]
Alex
Like why would you want.
- [17:48]
John
Let's all just really hope they don't use tornado cash but I just like.
- [17:54]
Alex
These guys are pretty good even with Tornado cache of finding you especially Zach xpt. Love these big heists. I don't know, I think it's. You might just see it sit on a hot on a. In cold storage for a while and someone will do their OTs. Like I'd be really surprised if this just disappears without really good tracing. What does anyone else think?
- [18:18]
Carlo
Yeah, look the forensics and the white Hats that are working on behalf of law enforcement are pretty damn good these days. You combine that with what I can do as far as unscrambling these mixers, I think there's a high probability they'll track it down. They'll track it down to IP addresses. If it's an overseas player, that makes it a lot more difficult. But there certainly can be efforts to lock up these funds, issue forfeiture and seizure notices to the wallet address, and then it depends on how they bridge this stuff. If they bridge this to another token, like we've seen in other scams, where that token can get locked up as well, you could have a potential situation where they can't liquidate this money. But again, man, it's just stunning to me how these major, major platforms don't have their security and their protocols in place. It seems this is all allegations, Scott, but it's just so scary, and it just reinforces. You really got to be very mindful of where you keep your money when it comes to custodians.
- [19:24]
John
Yeah, I don't. The comment about tornado cash. I don't think you can effectively launder 1.5 billion in crypto right now. Like, I just think that is too large a number. There's no tool out there. But, but, but in terms of, like, wanting the little guys to have privacy, the, like, fallout from them using one of these privacy tools is like a really good talking point for the people in D.C. that, you know, we need to sort of fight against and convince that privacy isn't the enemy.
- [19:52]
Scott
Agree. I'm going to get that chance.
- [19:55]
Carlo
And we're going to get that chance, Scott, because Roman's case is going to trial on the tornado cash issue very soon, and that's one of the big issues in contention. Can you prosecute a technology provider for what people do with it, and what does that do to the. To the person who actually wants to use things like tornado cash for legitimate purposes, like anonymity versus criminal enterprises? This is a very hotly debated issue right now.
- [20:23]
Alex
Yeah. Does anyone know if. I assume BYBIT is way well capitalized to even like that this isn't going to impact any of their users?
- [20:31]
Lawyer
Is that. Is that right?
- [20:32]
Alex
Do you guys think they've got enough money?
- [20:38]
John
The other question is what insurance do they have? I mean, they probably don't have $1.5 billion worth of insurance, but most, Most exchanges are insured to some extent against this type of crime.
- [20:49]
Alex
Yeah, it's a large amount. Pretty wild.
- [20:52]
Scott
I mean, that. Yeah. As Zach said, I Think that would literally be by far the largest hack or security incident like this in history, crypto or otherwise. I'm sorry for the gaps here in posting. We're trying to do some research and figure this all out.
- [21:05]
John
If you measure it at the time of the hack, the previous biggest was the North Korean hack of the Ronin Bridge with the Axie Infinity assets, and that was about 650. 50 million. So this is almost three times that size.
- [21:21]
Scott
Interestingly, I guess I should look at the. The daily chart I'm trying to figure out. We haven't seen a massive dump in Ethereum's price. I guess it topped today at 2840 or so. Trading now at 2720.
- [21:33]
James
Yeah, it's dropping now a bit, down to like 2700.
- [21:37]
Scott
I mean, 1.5 billion would be quite a bit of selling, but to your point, I think this will be mitigated. I can't imagine it's customer funds, but if something like that were customer funds, this be one of those situations that would rock the industry. Luke, you were one of the people that actually sent me this. I had it sent by about five people at the exact same time. What are your thoughts here? Yeah.
- [22:01]
Luke
Hi, Scott. Hi, everyone. This is some interesting timing. It's 2:00 in the morning here in Australia and I've kind of rubbed my eyes, climbed up onto the computer to join the chat here and just saw that post and thought, well, this is interesting. I'm watching in real time the trading as well, and obviously the market's taking a little bit of a hit. But yeah, I mean, if we look at previous episodes where these kinds of things have happened often there'll be some kind of negotiation for recovery. These people will probably. It depends what their actions are. Now. If they're actually legitimately just trying to dump it wherever they can, then it'll get frozen. There's no doubt. If they're just withdrawing it all and putting it somewhere else, then they'll probably have a negotiation and, and get paid, some kind of settlement, hand it all back and then move on.
- [22:54]
Scott
I'm sorry, guys, I'm just having horrible glitches here as we're trying to plow through this. But Luke, I tend to agree. John Dean's here, buddy. We've got the whole family up here. I said, now you know that we really have our full legal team. If we got, if we got John on stage, it's a wrap.
- [23:12]
Mateo
How's everybody doing?
- [23:14]
Scott
We're good, man. We were talking about, obviously, the SEC dropping the case against Coinbase.
- [23:22]
Carlo
Oh, poor Scott. You're glitching so bad.
- [23:25]
Scott
The SEC news. I know. If the SEC news drops on Coinbase, and now we have this potential Bybit hack, so feel free to speak on any of it.
- [23:35]
Mateo
Well, listen, my concern is always been the same, which is going from one extreme to the other, you know, and we're at a very important point in crypto, and Carlo's comments were 100% on point that we have to take care of our House and our industry. Listen, one year from today, it's going to surprise everybody, but it's going to be in full election mode again. The midterms are coming and there are more Republicans up for U.S. senate, for example. I think there's 20 Republicans to 13 Democrats.
- [24:12]
Scott
Your mic just muted really bad. Yeah.
- [24:16]
Mateo
Can you hear me?
- [24:17]
Scott
Yeah, that's good.
- [24:18]
Mateo
Yeah. I was just saying the midterms are a year from now, basically. And Senator Warren, my political opponent in the last election, will be the. If the Senate turns and flips to Democrats, will be the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee. And so we have to make sure that we really take care. You know, I know there's a lot of talk about legislation, but stablecoin legislation obviously needs to be done. We need to make sure that it's outlawed to co mingle funds for consumers and that, you know, hypothetically, Coinbase goes into bankruptcy, their customer accounts don't get considered Coinbase's property, It's customer property. There's a lot of things that we need to do to make sure that we don't blow this opportunity. And so, you know, unfortunately, we've went from, you know, the. The knee of the government on the neck of the industry to, you know, this meme coin frenzy, you know, by political leaders and everything else. And it's a real concern. Shame on us if we don't clean house ourselves.
- [25:25]
Scott
Yeah, just guys, as an update, I just pinned up in the nest from Arkham, 1 billion outflows from Bybit, 1.4 billion ETH and ST ETH outflows from Bybit. The funds have begun to move to new addresses where they are being sold. So far, 200 million in STE has consult. That's a mass amount for Lido.
- [25:44]
John
Given that that, like you can use.
- [25:46]
Scott
That to vote on stuff, it makes.
- [25:51]
Luke
The narrative of we're actually white hat hackers trying to help out a little bit harder to defend than if they're. If they're actively selling that aggressively, doesn't it?
- [25:59]
Scott
200 million is a very big number, Dwayne. Hey, Good morning. I'm not a lawyer, but I was just actually going to ask the panel here, do you really think that there's.
- [26:11]
Luke
Enough time in order to get clarity.
- [26:15]
Scott
At least from a regulation standpoint for.
- [26:19]
Luke
Crypto, like in regards to the role of the SEC and the FCTC here and even looking at who's enforcing what.
- [26:28]
Scott
And another thing I was wondering as.
- [26:30]
Luke
Well is when you're looking at altcoins here, if we look at some of the, some of the cases that the SEC has provided over, you know, like.
- [26:39]
Zach
For example, with Pump Cruise, when it.
- [26:40]
Luke
Comes to equities, it seems that in some, you know, in some instances here that you can actually rug pull and you can actually rug pull your, you know, your customers. So I was wondering, you know, if you guys have some comments on that and how, you know, basically how you.
- [26:54]
Scott
See this moving forward, if there's really.
- [26:55]
Luke
Enough time to get these sorts of things rectified so that there's some more stability at least, you know, to the market here.
- [27:03]
Carlo
I think from a regulatory perspective, we're already seeing that we are in a little bit of a power vacuum because we don't have confirmation yet of the new SEC chair. But in the interim, Hester Purse and what she's doing with her task force, I think is setting the tone for where this regulatory agency is going. And I think we're going to see the same thing with the cftc. We're just in a little bit of a power vacuum right now. And on the broader conversation, yeah, legislation is more difficult because it gets bogged down in a lot of political debate and a lot of things get thrown into bills that don't belong there. And we don't have a functional legislative branch right now. So I think the regulators are going to step in and probably send a message to the sector that it is safe to come back onshore and build again. But without clear, definitive legislation and even some court intervention to clarify how these things should be treated with respect to the Howey test and how I think it needs to be revisited by the Supreme Court. And we need a new standard. We're still going to have a bit of ambiguity, but I think the regulators have gotten the clear mandate this time around and they're going to treat this sector differently.
- [28:16]
Scott
Yeah, I think that that's relatively clear outside of the hacks and such. Go ahead, Zach. I mean, now I can't hear Zach. Can you guys hear Zach? I have no idea if it's my glitches or general glitches.
- [28:33]
Carlo
No, it's bad it's bad connection.
- [28:35]
Scott
Okay. Amateo. All right. Is this better?
- [28:37]
John
I think it was better.
- [28:38]
Scott
Okay. Yeah. Who's that? Yes, that's better. Go ahead.
- [28:41]
John
I was going to say that the devil is very much in the details, though, about how they treat it differently. I agree it's going to happen, but, you know, at the sort of nearer end of the spectrum, they could just provide sort of some legislative clarity around the contours of the Howey test. I think, think ultimately that would be a missed opportunity and is not the change we need. What we really need is to sort of fundamentally change the securities laws to allow people to do stuff that they actually want to do with crypto right in the RWA space, to allow securities to trade on chain to clarify rules for Dexs. I think we need a lot of upheaval and I think there's a big political question about how far they'll be able to go.
- [29:22]
Scott
Takes me 30 seconds just to lift my mic each time and. Mateo, go ahead.
- [29:27]
Zach
Yeah, I just want to go back to the hack situation. Monitoring. We got an official message from Ben at Bybit that essentially there was a cold wallet transfer to their warm wallet about an hour ago that the transaction was must and all signers saw the Musk USA UI which showed the correct address and the URL was from safe and thus the signing of the message was to change the smart contract logic of our ETH cold wallet. And the resulted hacker took control of the specific ETH cold wallet and transferred all the ETH to the address. So initially, when it was coming out of a multisig, I had to wonder if this was an inside job at Bybit. But looking at this announcement, probably something like the North Korea style hackers, but very, very conspicuous hack.
- [30:24]
Luke
So.
- [30:25]
Zach
So essentially to just explain that they sent a transaction that made it look like it was coming from their multi sig and so it was completely covert in how it was seen. They approved that transaction because it appeared like it was requested from the multisig and it actually gave them control of the multisig. And then they were able to use that to deploy out all of the funds which they're now transferring out. They said that it's an isolated incident to this specific wallet. I'm sure they're locking down everything else. I think we all hope that they're plenty well capitalized to handle such a loss, but there's going to be some fallout for this and it's going to take some time to. To actually expose this and see where everything shakes out. I Imagine this spooks the market for some time. You know, a couple steps forward with the Coinbase news today and a few steps backwards with this hack which is going to be affecting quite a few things.
- [31:25]
Scott
Yeah, this is going to be an interesting one to track. I'm really shocked that Ethereum is still at 2700 if over 200 million has already been sold. Seems like this would have had a much more dramatic effect on the market, but maybe that hasn't been absorbed yet. John, I want to ask you a question since we have you here kind of alluded to this before. We have this sort of moment right now where we have maybe two years, not even because it's going to be election season again and obviously everybody's going to focus on campaigning and not necessarily on legislation. We have this situation where worst case scenario, if the Senate flips, Elizabeth Warren would once again be the chairman of Senate Financial. Right. I mean we're far from in the clear right now from a reversal of some of these policies.
- [32:18]
Mateo
Very far from the clear. And once we get into midterm season election, you'll even see candidates now jockeying for that crypto money basically, you know, leveraging their potential vote. Things are going to get held up. This is what's unfortunately I listen I everybody knows I own you know, substantial amount of Bitcoin and everybody's pushing for the Bitcoin, you know, reserve where the United States is going to, you know, literally increase our deficit by spending money to buy the, the actual instrument that is a hedge against the devaluation of dollars. We need to eliminate that nonsense and focus on the market structure bill, the stablecoin bill and making sure consumer protections are in place for centralized exchange customers. That's what we need to focus on. The, the person who had the question of, of you know, is it the CFTC right now you've got FinCEN, Treasury, CFTC, SEC, all these agencies tentacles into financial instruments. We need to make it clear who's in charge. Let's legislate and quit the comment by Carlo of new Howie Test. Let's address that. Let's stop pigeonhole 1930s statutes in 1946 case law into modern day blockchain technology and artificial intelligence. So we have maybe 150 days that really do something that can be long lasting that Senator Warren and the Brad Shermans and Maxine Waters and all the others who you know, oppose this industry that they wouldn't be able to just come in and flip flop easy. If we pass meaningful legislation then we could do some Real good. And I just hope we focus on.
- [34:11]
Carlo
That, that we need more John Scott. More John.
- [34:16]
Scott
We all know that. So, John, what. Where are you going next? Come on, man. Can we get the, like, insight here? And what's the, what's the plan?
- [34:23]
Mateo
N. I don't know. Listen, man, when I'm. Sometimes, I'll be honest with you, when I was running for office, I felt like the candidate that nobody wanted, but the candidate that everybody needed. Because I'm not an extreme person. I don't, you know, I'm not a, a huge Trump guy. But that doesn't mean I don't support the same type of policies. I certainly support deregulation and securing the border, but I'm also worried about consumer protections and things that, that we need to make sure that people who have 10, 15 grand of their fucking life savings or whatever not, you know, thrown down the drain because we didn't put in laws that protect them, such as making sure that if you have a bankruptcy that consumer funds don't get, you know, start paying off creditors of other people. That's their money, that's their funds. One for one reserves. Making sure that you can never co. Mingle customer funds with the company's own capital, things like that. We have this real chance right now to do something really, really good and meaningful, and let's just hope that, that they do it. You know, maybe I run again, maybe I don't. But I just hope that, you know, we, we stop focusing on, hey, let's push a bitcoin strategic reserve and, you know, print dollars to buy bitcoin. I'm sorry. Listen, I got 80 of my net worth in bitcoin. That would be great for John Deaton, but that's stupid, man. Let's. Let's focus on things that really could have a meaningful impact moving forward. Sorry. Sorry to rant, but you asked.
- [35:56]
Scott
That's what we're here for. I agree. Absolutely, absolutely. Go ahead, James.
- [36:04]
Lawyer
Well, I, of course, agree with everything John just said. I was looking back at something here. What we have is kind of a crypto stew. A lot of cooks in the kitchen. So the President has formed this mega group of interests with the cryptos are the Presidential Working Group on Digital Assets, the Crypto Council, the SEC Crypto Task Force, the Senate Subcommittee Committee on Digital Assets, and the House Subcommittee on Digital Assets. Maybe that's a good way of getting there, I don't know. But people need to understand this is not one of those things that can be accomplished with an executive order. It's Got to go through this meat grinder of legislation and the worst thing that can happen is for various crypto tribes to be fighting each other about this legislation. If there was some way that everybody could get together on the crypto side, we're interested in seeing crypto innovation flourish and have some unity in terms of what the focus and objective is. Instead of attacking each other during this process so that we confuse the politicians about what we want, then all bets are off and we may not get anything out of the process. So my only point here is unity is really called for now.
- [37:40]
Scott
It's not happening though, not right now, I should say. So I think we had this perfect moment of unity where there was the common enemy, which was obviously the last administration and the crypto lobby came together and raised record breaking money to basically oust that administration. But now from what we're hearing, every time we bring someone up who's lobbyists in Washington or crypto now it's every man for himself in the self interest of each company or platform or group that that's lobbying. Right? I mean, very clearly what ripple is spending money on, for example, right now is not the same thing as a bitcoin maximalist or an organization would want. So we have this very disjointed lobby that I think eventually becomes lord of the flies. I just. James, I don't know if you have an idea, but how do, how would you possibly get these lobbies together when they have such separate interests now that, now that we're there?
- [38:40]
Lawyer
Well, I don't know. That's why I'm not in politics. But maybe one way is to separate very clearly this whole idea of a, a bitcoin reserve or a digital asset reserve or a stockpile, whatever that is, or should be leaving that to the side and just focusing on, hey, these crypto tokens are not securities. So who's going to get, you know, responsibility for regulating it so that we have reasonable investor protections like John Deaton was talking about? It would seem like logically we could agree on something like that. If we set aside the hey, I want my bag represented in the digital asset stockpile, we could just set that aside for a few minutes and try to get a market structure deal done. Maybe there's a way.
- [39:39]
John
So I definitely, definitely disagree on the comments here on the sbr. I think like if we were to look at what are the initiatives that the entire industry in my view should be able to get behind. There are three of them. One of them is a stablecoin bill.
- [39:54]
Scott
Right.
- [39:54]
John
I Think, by and large, using crypto rails to move US Dollars in a private fashion, not in the form of a CBDC makes a ton of sense and really will move the ball forward for defi and is both good for crypto and good for the United States because it's a buyer for treasuries and it's good for dollar dominance, et cetera. I think more or less everyone can agree on a market structure, Bill, whatever you think the rules should be, the current rules don't work. And we need some sort of regulatory clarity about token launches and the ability to move securities on chain, I think, by and large. But then, you know, look, I don't like what Ripple is doing. I think the idea of like a digital asset stockpile doesn't make a ton of sense where the government is buying bags. But the idea of the United States government having some exposure to bitcoin as sort of a neutral commodity the way that we have exposure to gold, I think makes a ton of sense. It helps legitimize the entire sector. I think that's a, it's a fairly neutral strategy and it'll frankly, it'll move asset prices up. Right. The government monetizing Bitcoin will create a lot of energy that will be useful to the rest of the industry. And I think that's very different than the government buying, you know, what looks like, at least on the current laws, a security. Right. I think that like people lobbying for their specific bags that are created by a specific company doesn't make a lot of sense. But I would put the SBR right up there with stablecoins and a market structure, Bill, as something that really should be a central priority for the digital asset industry.
- [41:26]
Scott
I think it is for the digital asset industry. I think, John, you were just saying like as a whole, politically for the country, it's not the most important thing. Correct.
- [41:34]
Mateo
Well, here's the thing. Thing we have to focus on what we agree on now. Again, I have 80% of my net worth in bitcoin.
- [41:42]
Luke
Right.
- [41:42]
Mateo
I made that publicly disclosure. So of course it would benefit me. But you can't expect Donald Trump and all of these politicians to go down the rabbit hole of Bitcoin and be able to stay. They're going to sit there and say, well, you know, diversification, that makes sense. And they're not going to sit there and focus on, well, all these other details. And so you're going to get Ripple and XRP holders wanting on there, you're going to got Cardano wanting on there. And there's going to be this fighting about something that will, people will never agree on. But we can agree on a market structures bill. We can agree on a stablecoin bill. We can agree that consumer funds should always remain consumer funds in case of a bankruptcy. We can agree on those things. So let's get the things we agree on first, focus on them and then come back.
- [42:32]
John
I don't want to, I don't want to talk at a school, so I'll be careful about what I say here specifically. But having been involved in some of these conversations, I think you're not giving the administration enough credit on this issue. I think there are a lot of people around Trump that really do understand the difference between bitcoin and this other stuff and are already quite far down the rabbit hole. I mean, you know, just public examples. Look at things that Scott Besant has said about bitcoin. Look at how Howard Lutnick talks about Bitcoin, RFK Jr. All sorts of people in that orbit. I think this absolutely is something we can get across the finish line. And either writing it off as a political impossibility or framing it as this is just pumping our bags and not good for America. I mean, that I strongly disagree with. I think it would be quite good for the country for a number of reasons. Right. In order to back our debt, in order for geopolitical sort of advancements relative to our rivals have been stacking gold in order to become a leader in, in the digital asset industry. And just a lot of the bitcoin is in America like now, I think really is the time for an sbir.
- [43:34]
Mateo
Are those the same people that pushed the stupid ass Trump coin or does that include Eric Trump who said it's a good day to buy Ethereum today?
- [43:42]
John
It does. It does include. Eric Trump does believe in bitcoin. He also did stupid shit like you're mentioning. But there are people. Eric Trump is not part of the administration. The people I'm talking about are in the administration. Administration.
- [43:54]
Mateo
Okay, listen, like I said, it's good for John Deaton. So if it happens, you know I'm going to be a lot fucking more wealthy than I am today.
- [44:02]
John
It's also good for America.
- [44:04]
Mateo
Okay, well. And the point is, can you get legislation, can it get done or are we going to focus on that?
- [44:10]
John
We're going to. We're going to try to try. We're going to try our best to get it done and get the Cynthia Lummis bill across the line.
- [44:17]
Mateo
All right, so you're going to convince enough People in the Congress that we're going to print dollars to actually buy.
- [44:25]
John
Not sure if you, I'm not sure if you've read this in the LMS bill, but it doesn't involve printing dollars.
- [44:30]
Mateo
Okay, well, I'm just going by what people are pushing and I'm saying I'm someone.
- [44:34]
Luke
It's really not.
- [44:35]
John
The Bitcoin act is not very long. You could, you're a lawyer. I think you can read it and it has nothing to do with it.
- [44:41]
Mateo
I can read it. But what I'm saying is that anybody who's pushing the strategic bitcoin reserve before a market structure bill or a stablecoin bill or consumer protection is putting the cart before the horse and it makes no fucking sense.
- [44:55]
John
Is a time sensitive issue. There are other countries that are actively stacking bitcoin. If we want to monetize bitcoin before rival nations, now is the time to do it. The market structure bill will happen. There just is the political will for it. Nobody wants the current SEC rules. I think the SBIR actually is more of a time sensitive priority.
- [45:15]
Mateo
Well, listen, we can agree to disagree seeing but there's many things that need to be done before the strategic bitcoin reserve and, and good luck getting the next chairman of the, of the Senate Banking Committee if, if the Senate flips to, to agree. That's the point I'm trying to make.
- [45:33]
Scott
What are the odds of that? What are like, what are the handicap right now that the Senate would flip? Obviously the House.
- [45:39]
Carlo
I've been thinking about that, Scott. I've been thinking about that. And, and I think that explains a lot of Trump's very aggressive economic agenda of late. I think he's forcing with this tariff agenda the issue of trying to get the economy to have volatility now in the short term and then adjust that volatility with a forced rate cut and the printing of more money and liquidity into the cycle so that consumer sentiment is positive going into the midterms. So I think he's probably from a strategic standpoint looking at short term pain in order to avoid long term liquidation in the midterms.
- [46:25]
Scott
Yeah, I mean it makes sense for everything to be a sprint. Very rarely does a party keep both houses when they have full control at the midterms. Just doesn't happen very often in history.
- [46:37]
Carlo
And he can't do it without good consumer sentiment because if the midterms are in the face of very poor consumer sentiment as we're seeing right now, that could be disastrous.
- [46:50]
Scott
Yeah, I'm trying to dig in. Still more here in the background on the BYBIT hack. Still, honestly, I think the biggest story of the day will remain the Coinbase effectively being let off the hook here by the sec, which we all know should have been the case from, from the very beginning. I mean, any final thoughts on SEC and Coinbase before we move on here? Anyone? One? Perfect. Well, I think we've covered the, the bulk of the news here. I invited Luke here at 3 o'clock and was it 3 o'clock in the morning did you say? In Australia three time is it?
- [47:28]
Luke
Yeah, it's, it's around 2:30 at the moment.
- [47:30]
Scott
Now Scott, I, I'm such an. So yeah, like approximately obviously I really like, I, you know, long, long, long ago started talking to you guys and Luke and I, I've been old friends and I just wanted to give them the opportunity to talk about it and I was like it's 10:15am Eastern Standard Time but actually it'll be like 11 or 11:15 by the time you go on but I would really love to just give you your, you know, 10:15 minutes to talk about it. So it had to be a three in the morning your time. So dude, maybe first of all I'll change the title as you're talking and to give people the, the link to the account but maybe you can just give us the TLDR on tossing you.
- [48:09]
Luke
Yeah, sure. Thanks Scott. I appreciate the, the chance to be here and look, that's just the joys of being in Aussie. You know, we are so far removed from Europe and America I hear. I used to live in the States and, and whenever I'd talk to Americans like oh my God, Australia is so far away, it's like yeah, it's a 14 hour plane flight but you know, it's worth the trip, you should come and visit one day. Look, so just quick introduction to myself. My name's Luke Lime. I'm a founding partner of of Faculty Group. We're a Web3 venture studio that have been in the market for some time now as a market maker, VC incubator, accelerator, dev house marketing firm kind of all rolled into one. About two and a half years ago I embarked on this journey to build casu. It's essentially a blockchain, private credit borrowing and lending platform. Not unlike Maple Finance Centrifuge or Goldfinch. However, one of the key differences that we have is we partnered with an Australian fintech and software as a service provider called appsiom. They're multi award winning Australian government grant recipient and backed firm that essentially provide an invoice management system, accounts receivable system for leading accounting firms around the world in the U.S. canada, the U.K. and Australia. So tier one economies, they handle around two, $2.5 billion of transaction volume annually. And we're meeting and sort of talking with the owner of appsiom. We identified a need for capital because one of the things that they were doing was offering their accounting firm clients, and clients of the accounting firms the ability to pay their invoices over a period of time. And we built CASA with the idea to essentially democratize access to that opportunity, provide anyone who's got USDC or stablecoins in the market to participate as a lender to what would usually only be sort of institutional grade lending. And so this is what we've done over the last two years, building it. And we literally just launched on Wednesday on base, built on base base and looking forward to start to roll things out. I think there's a lot of appetite for this kind of product in the market. I think just looking at the general market conditions, people aren't really too sure where things are going. It's been one of the most unusual cycles I've certainly seen. We've had a lot of really bullish news and there's a lot of the co panelists here have been discussing the Trump administration and some of the actions being taken there and ETFs and, and all of those strong signals being sent to market. But on the flip side, you also see a really different altcoin cycle in terms of memes and where liquidity sinks are actually occurring. And so I think that there is probably some PTSD from some sectors of the market, certainly from me having been through a couple of cycles, you never really know where things are and you probably, if you're a little prudent, want to de risk and de risk into stable coins as your moving through. And so CASA was really built with that in mind, able to provide a safe haven for stable coins with significant yields. We're looking at between 12 to 25% APY, all totally sustainable and all occurring off chain with these accounting firms. So we're really resistant to the crypto cycles and even some of the macroeconomic cycles as well, to some extent.
- [51:43]
Scott
It's an interesting conversation to have today when talking, first of all, you launched on base, but when talking about the SEC sort of dropping this charges against Coinbase and clearly a more favorable regulatory environment, I've got to imagine that that makes this easier for you. Right. We've had conversations over the years and it was like so hard to do something like this. Yield was a four letter word and regulatory environment everywhere was so content.
- [52:13]
Luke
It's, it's been a minefield. Scott. I mean there are a lot of lawyers on this panel right now and I, I've had my fair share of dealing with lawyers over the past couple of years in multiple jurisdictions. So we could really get a good handle on what we were able to do and how we were able to actually engage with market and we've actually through this process even with a pretty conservative outlook and this was pre Trump, pre Gensler, sort of exiting the sec and a bit of a hawkish overtones of the SEC and even with the ASIC here in Australia here, we've taken a very conservative approach to it. But we've managed to work out a pretty innovative structure whereby any retail lender essentially anywhere in the world, including the US non accredited, non sophisticated lenders are able to participate in this. So we've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make that possible. I think I heard John talking about commingling of funds between operational capital and, and customers capital with exchanges for example. Well, we don't commingle funds at all with any funds. So when you, and when you lend, you lend in an isolated sort of bucket essentially to the end borrower. So this is not like a registered fund. We don't need to go down that pathway. But yeah, look, it's been a challenge and it's been quite a struggle because it's obviously something you're very mindful of. You need to do things in the regulation way and compliant wherever possible. I mean I value my freedom here in Australia. I'm fully docs, I don't really want to have any chains on me frankly. And so we've made every effort to ensure that doesn't happen and I think with this new administration coming in, certainly it just makes us all breathe a little easier. I mean if they can get away with launching their own Trump meme coin, then I think it's like a ball to a flag with a lot of other lot of bad actors in the space. So if you're a good actor, you're probably less, less of a target, that's for sure.
- [54:13]
Scott
Yeah, I'm obviously on the website right now. So listen, the difference is that in the past yield and crypto was effectively. Well we know what CEFI did, we don't need to talk about that. But obviously most of it's coming from defi. Right. So on Chain. When I read through the site here, obviously doing this for everyone, I understand it. But to, to give them the words right, you have kind of a number of different ways. 12 to 20% APY professional fee funding accounting firms financing the invoices of high creditworthy accounting firms in U.S. canada, UK, Australia. Proprietary technology that reduces debtor days by up to 50% before lending a single dollar, thereby significantly reducing risk to lenders to unlock higher risk adjusted yields. Go on, you know, 14 to 25% for taxation funding for diversified businesses. 12 to 20% whole ledger funding accounting and law firms. I mean this is clearly a shield that's being created in a different manner. So maybe you could talk about how this is done, how you source that and you know how you came up with this novel.
- [55:13]
Luke
Yeah, absolutely. And look, I think this is one of the sort of key. You nailed a few points there. And one of the key differentiators here is, and I don't want to throw shade on anyone else in the space because obviously everyone in RWA is forging a path forward that's really important. I think this is a really important sector sector and we've had sort of the road paved by some of the incumbents here, centrifuges and maples and gold ventures of the world, particularly in the private credit space. You go outside of private credit and you have the Ondos and so on. We're not really competing with Ondo. They're offering a liquid product. They're really only offering access to Treasuries. And so you're getting very low yields but it's safe and it's liquid. So that's obviously got a very strong value proposition. What we're offering as you've identified is access to incredibly high credit worthy borrowers. We're talking about accounting firms in tier one economies that have. Some of these have been in existence for many years, going back to almost a century for the oldest Baker Tilly's and so on of the world with huge volume. The biggest client in the US of our joint venture partner Appxiom that I mentioned before is essentially $800 million of, of work on their books. And so they have all these clients and they have the need to cash flow these clients. And so we provide that solution and allow anyone has stablecoins to access that. But before people lend and I think this is one of the key areas to look at as well. With most other RWA platforms your money essentially goes into a black box. You deposit your funds, you don't really see what happens after that you just wish for the best and hope that, okay, they're being deployed properly, the actual end borrowers doing what they should be doing and so on and so forth. And we've seen some pretty disastrous outcomes. And I think just in the last three or four years there's been over $200 million of defaults with just the top five or six RWA platforms. And again, not throwing shade, it's just the nature of the business. All that these RWA platforms are doing is taking a traditional banking lending model and bringing it on chain. So they're essentially saying we have some borrowers, we're going to DD these borrowers, make sure we establish and understand who they are, they're bona fides, we have lenders, let's take their money, connect it with the borrowers, we'll take the delta, whatever that is there, and that's how we make our money. But then there's the risk of the borrower defaulting. I think one thing that is a little different with us is that the software stack that our joint venture partner appsiom has is a world class software stack that apart from managing all of the invoicing, it reduces the admin overhead of these accounting firms by about 50%. It reduces the debtor days, which means the time it takes for the accounting firms to collect on their invoices by about 50% as well. So essentially what's happening is by reducing the amount of time it takes for them to collect their funds, we're reducing the risk and the exposure as well. So we're actually de risking the data book before the funds are actually lent. So it's a higher quality of yield even though it's a higher actual nominal value like you're getting 12 to 25%. Because we have a pretty sophisticated tranching system in place with Senior obviously at the lower end of the yield and Junior at the higher end. But we have, you know, we have this, this very transparent, very robust structuring in place which is unlike anything in market and there's a level of transparency there. We haven't gone live with the user dashboards quite yet, but probably within the next two to three weeks there'll be user dashboards that go into granular detail about exactly what's happening with the mining money and the status of all of those funds at any particular point in time. Essentially real time covenant reporting, which is unlike anything not just in crypto but in the traditional finance space as well. So pretty excited about it.
- [58:57]
Scott
Yeah. And obviously there's a token associated right KSU maybe talk about the token, obviously what it offers. What's the utility?
- [59:09]
Luke
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean our experience with faculty group, we're a team of around 100 globally. We've been involved in a number of projects over the last sort of six or seven years in advisory capacity and token economics has been something very close to our heart. So this is something we took really seriously. I think it's pretty fair to say that if you look at CoinGecko, the 15 odd thousand tokens that are listed out there, most of those tokens don't have any real utility. There's no real purpose.
- [59:34]
Scott
I think there's 11 million, just market cap now there's 11 million.
- [59:40]
Luke
Oh wow. Okay. Well, yeah, well we know that memes don't really that by virtue of what they are, they certainly don't have utility. Utility. But we've really gone to great lengths to ensure there is utility. And so we have a couple unique features. One thing that stands out is because this is rwa, your funds aren't sitting on chain like in defi, which is great because it means you don't suffer from that particular. As we've just seen today by bit being hacked, funds are on chain, they're always at risk of being exploited. We don't have that issue with CASU because the funds, once you deposit into casa, there's a clearing period weekly. Those funds are converted by a circle into FIAT into USD, Canada, Canadian dollars, UK or Aussie dollars, where they're deployed with the accounting firm. So they're sitting at fiat. Even if USDC depegged and went to zero for some crazy reason, you would still be protected. So we don't have that on chain risk, which is really good, but it means that they're being used in the real world. So if you want to withdraw your funds today and get your money back, it's not immediately possible to do so. If it's a smaller amount, there's a contingency, there's a buffer, it's no problem. So what we have is a prioritizing sort of loyalty system whereby let's say the amount of stables you have staked, the amount of tokens that you have locked also, and that ratio determines your position in the queue. So the more tokens you have versus the stables that you have will help you get access to your funds sooner. I'll give you a quick example. Let's say someone has a million dollars of stables staked with the platform, yet they have a thousand dollars of tokens locked up. They have a 1% ratio there. Someone else has only $10,000 of stable staked, but they have a thousand dollars of tokens, they have a 10% ratio. That person with that 10% ratio actually gets ahead of the other person in the queue. So let's say in a worst case situation there's a bank run kind of. Eventually people are just running to collect their funds. They want to get out for whatever reason may have happened rather than just being first out. It's based on this ranking system. So the number of tokens you have gives you priority access to your own funds. That's one thing that's really unique and we haven't seen that in the market. The other is obviously priority access to these strategies. Also I won't call them pools because the funds aren't pooled like I mentioned, they're all ring fenced for example. And there will be, there will be limited amounts of capital that we're drawing upon. And so if you want to get access to these high yields, these 20, 25% yields, there's going to be probably over subscription there. So the more tokens you have locked, the more access and availability you have to those funds. Plus there's a revenue share and there's yield bonuses. Those are two things that some of the other competitors do. So two very unique token utilities I think make this quite special.
- [62:24]
Scott
Listen, I know it's almost 4 o'clock in the morning. Anything I missed, like final thoughts you want to share with us?
- [62:31]
Luke
Look, I mean I can't give too much away, but we're pretty excited. We're in late stage due diligence with a pretty significant traditional lender in the space. We're under NDA. So I can't say too much, but we're looking at a significant nine figure debt financing deal which will materially change sort of our position in the market and I think sort of instantly propels us to the more significant player status, which we're pretty excited about. But I think this is just, it speaks to the quality of the product and it speaks to the quality of the yield that we're offering here that we have. Not just this potentially quarter of a billion dollar debt facility which is days away from potentially being contracted, but we have another lender with another $100 million term sheet standing on the sidelines in case the first one falls over, and then another one with a $40 million term sheet as well. That just shows that there is definite appetite from the traditional finance space in products like this. And we're excited to be able to bring this to market to provide access, like I said, to anyone pretty much anywhere in the world, except for sanctioned countries. Don't even have to be an accredited investor. Obviously you need to kyc, but that's just to protect us, not to go hunting after you guys. And I think it's an exciting time, so I appreciate the opportunity to share it here. Thank you, Scott.
- [63:48]
Scott
Amazing. So everybody should give Luke follow if you want more information at Luke Loem obviously is on stage. You can see in the title that we changed Kasu Finances. K A S U F I N A N C E. Follow them if you also want to have more information. You know, I'll be closely tracking what you're doing. Luke, man, thank you. You can go to bed now.
- [64:09]
Luke
Thanks, Scott. Chat soon, buddy.
- [64:11]
Scott
All right, man. And to everyone else, actually relatively impressed with the market reaction here. Ethereum still active, actually green on the day, trading at 2760. Bitcoin had dropped down into the 97s, back at 98, 500 or so. Pretty encouraging that on a hack like this, a situation like this that we're seeing the market react well in an interesting day when you have such good news on the coinbase side and obviously bad news on the private side. So we'll see how this all shakes out. Otherwise, be back Monday. Give everybody on stage a follow and we will see you next week for a full week as we usually have in Crypto Town Hall. Thank you, everybody. See you soon.