← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:01]
A
Well, good morning everyone. Happy Monday. For those who celebrate in the summer, here we are in August and on Crypto Town hall today and every day at 10:15, a little bit late today and we saw a weekend sell off. We're continuing a trend from last week. Strangely, most of the liquidations, or at least half of them were coming from Ethereum and not from Bitcoin. So Ethereum seems to be leading in both directions lately and there's a lot to talk about as far as that's concerned. You know, I before I on Ethereum, as I might be, want to do, I think it being common for some of the more bullish people to say, to ask the question, you know, was this just a short squeeze led by digital asset Treasuries adopting Ethereum, notably Tom Lee, or was there something sustainable there? You know, what's going to happen next? I'd be curious what the panel thinks. William, I usually go to you being the resident Ethereum bull, what are your thoughts about what you're seeing in the market?
- [01:08]
B
Yeah, I mean I think this is a very short term blip. The inflows last week were $3.77 billion, 77% of that were led by Ethereum. So more Ethereum inflows last week than Bitcoin. I think what we are seeing on the weekend, what we saw is a bit of an overhang from the Friday options expiration where the put to call ratios was slightly in favor of the puts 1.05. So a lot of the longs were liquidated on Friday and that this overhang. But overall if you're looking at the long term, there's nothing that has changed as far as Ethereum is concerned. And I would expect that some of the digital asset treasury companies will continue buying this week because they didn't blow all of their load at once. There's more coming, so I'm not worried at all.
- [02:11]
A
So you're not concerned about the action of people to unstake Ethereum outweighing the cue to stake Ethereum by 2 to 1, you know, into the. Because of the price rise, you don't see that as a creating a significant resistance as we get towards 5,000?
- [02:35]
B
Not really, because there is a benefit actually if there is a little bit less being staked, what happens is that the yield returns will go up. Previously the percentage staked in Ethereum was quite high, just pushing over 30%. Currently the inflows are about half the outflows. That's correct. There's a bit of profit taking, but even that will barely move the threshold by a couple of percent points. Points. But it will push up the yield. So it will make Ethereum as a more attractive asset for staking which will bring back some more capital in return. So again it's, it's almost a part of the course. It's part of the ebbs and flows of what's going on.
- [03:32]
A
Okay, lawyer, I saw you had your hand up.
- [03:36]
C
Yeah, I think there's also a lot of, one thing to consider is there's a lot of PTSD in Ethereum and when we push to an ath, it's not like we have this history of every time we see a cycle high, it's way higher than last time. Like you see in Bitcoin, you know, we get to these prices where these guys staked saying, you know, I don't care 4 or 5,000, this is going to be 15,000 and here we are years later. So I think you'll have a lot of people on staking and that doesn't mean that it's not going to be going further. And a lot of those people are going to be upset and say, you know, can't believe I hodled until I was right and then I was out.
- [04:11]
A
At it, you know.
- [04:12]
C
So I'm not, I'm not making a prediction on the price direction but I'm not surprised that as we approach all time highs, you know, some of the older players just want to get the fuck out.
- [04:24]
A
Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty quick one. Yeah, sorry, I'm driving in my car so, you know, you're hearing a little bit of beeping going on around. Yeah, it's the words that economists use are price elasticity. And you know, it's true for both Bitcoin and Ethereum that there's a difference between them and that Bitcoin we know for a fact is hard capped in terms of mining supply. And everyone talks about the four year cycle based on mining supply, but the truth is, is that all assets that have holders are elastic to price in the sense that when the price rises, long term holders are like, okay, I can take profits here and there. The issue with, with Ethereum that's a little bit different than Bitcoin obviously. A lot different is there were a fair amount of people who bought during the last bull run who saw this as a chance to get out even. And that always creates resistance. And so it's not to me remotely surprising that there was a bit of, you know, a bit of resistance there. But, and we are in the summer. So I don't think that anything that's happened recently is creating a direction that is strange. It's just, it's always, it's always interesting to look at crypto Twitter and see people's reactions when it act when it does happen though.
- [05:47]
D
Yeah, Dave, if I could jump in actually just ask William a question like does he feel that. I mean we kind of all saw that, that the numbers yesterday of the people or holders on staking. Right. Kind of. And it was told as like a race to the exit. But, but William, do you think there's like sufficient buying buyers there to accommodate for that or we're going to see a significant drop here?
- [06:11]
B
No, I mean I think the interest is still there. And another data point that's even more telling, it's last week AAVE said that they are pushing all time highs on their TDLs and activity. So that is really more of an alpha signal in terms of bullish activity. And three quarters of the defi activity on AAVE is Ethereum. So there's lots of lending and borrowing there and that is more of a leading indicator than of a lagging indicator. I think staking and staking queues are lagging indicators. I'm sure a lot of people that went in at 2600 they'd have to have their head examined if they don't take some profits out currently at the 4,500 levels. So that's pure discipline and there will be a lot of that going on, which is fine. But again, seeing the inflows at half of the outflows after such a run is a good sign. If the inflows were much lower, I might have been a little bit more worried. But you also have to balance the fact that the ETF inflows are still very high. A lot of the treasury companies still have a lot of powder. They didn't put all of their investments all at once. I expect some new announcements in September. Some of them are waiting for the after Labor Day activity. They don't want to do a lot of stuff in the summer. So again I'm not worried at all at this point.
- [08:01]
A
So you know, when you. The other big thing that we're. Big thing, the other thing that we're noticing in the markets. If you look at bitbo's volatility index on Bitcoin, at least you know, bitcoin volatility is starting to get toward levels that we haven't seen since 2023. In the summer of 2023 and you might remember what was going on. Then it bottomed and then of course there was a liquidation cascade followed by a pretty sustained bull run. So, you know, it went from 29 down to touched almost 23,000 and then rocketed back up. But it's like these sorts of summertimes often are mask a lot of things that are going on. I mean, Sasha, I don't know if you're behind the microphone there but you know, at the tie, you obviously have access to a ton of data. I mean what are you seeing in terms of, you know, not just technical but also, you know, the, all the various factors that you look at. What are you looking at this morning?
- [09:00]
E
Yes, I think I concur with what, what you've been saying more like. Not necessarily. I don't have any particular number to give on, on what's going on. I think what you say about the volatility is, is accurate. I think is just to put it, you know, simpler. I mean this is what we see in old bull markets. Like there's, when there is super high, there's some sort of like mean reverting type of action after a big, a big spurge in splurge in activity. And I think that's, that's what's going on.
- [09:37]
A
Yeah, it makes it, it makes for a slow summer day. The one thing I will tell, will tell listeners should know that volumes this weekend were about as low a weekend volume as we've seen in a while. You know, I don't have any specifics but you know, not that I can talk about because I can see from, you know, coin routes platform who was in the hundreds of millions as opposed to billions, which is for the first time we've seen a weekend that slow in a while. But when you see those sorts of low volume moves, they, I won't say they don't mean anything because they do. I will say they mean less. It just, it's. That is what you're seeing and the fact that, that we saw $500 million liquidated and about half of it was Ethereum. The reason that matters is because it's not being led by, it's not a bitcoin led market either way. So typically in alt seasons you see bitcoin lead the way up and then it kind of languishes as other things happen. But that's not really what we're seeing here. We're seeing the dawn of something new. And I think William, something you've been saying for a while is that, well, Ethereum is its own thing and it shouldn't be beholden to bitcoin, right?
- [10:52]
B
Yeah. I mean if you look at the numbers, Ethereum has been getting closer to Bitcoin in market cap if that is one number and a lot further from the other altcoins. So it's distancing itself rightfully so because of all of the activity that's underlying the asset. So yeah, that's the reality right now. And it's going to continue. I think it's going to continue. It might take a small pause right now and the all time high is going to be a difficult threshold to get over. And I've been saying being realistic here. I think the road from 4,500 to 7,500 it's going to be a little bit more different. It's going to be a little bit more different than from the 2600 to the 4500. So I'm being realistic there. I hope we will get there by the end of the year but it won't be before without small bumps on the way.
- [11:55]
A
Yeah, I mean that, that, that seems baked in into the cake. I want to shift gears for for a second to curious what what people think. I personally saw one news story over the weekend or last week that was I think kind of important at least in terms of market direction, in terms of adoption. And that is the news that Larry Fink, he of bitcoin being 500,000 to 700,000 in the future and he of everything is going to get tokenized being the interim head of the World Economic Forum. I'm curious what people think about that because from my perspective it feels like that that entity and the central banks that you know, tend to listen to that entity have really never given either bitcoin or the notion of tokenization their due and that that could be a fairly relevant thing as things go forward. I'm curious am I the only one who thinks that or what? What do others think? Go for it William?
- [13:03]
B
Yeah, definitely. I think as you said, I agree with you Dave that he is going to be educating them. So they listen to that to him, they listen to the wef and there's going to be a lot of education from his side and it's a positive development.
- [13:24]
A
I mean Adam, you know, I know you have a little bit of disdain for those folks but I can only imagine. Well, I can see the smiley face. What are your thoughts on bro the.
- [13:36]
D
Cabal Cabal in man it is like it's disgusting, right? I mean I don't know how to put it other than it's disgusting. It is what it is. It's surprising. Like, great win picking him up, right? That, that was like a win. I, you know, you can only speculate on the amounts or the leverage that was used to get him on board. But this is like, you know, this is like worst of the worst. I don't know, you know, but that.
- [13:59]
A
As I said, I, I know your, your opinion on the cabal.
- [14:04]
D
I mean, it literally is. I don't know how you look at it other than. Yeah, this is, this is, this is like, I, I don't want to get into like deep state stuff, but this is like, this is the, the most insider, insider baseball stuff that happens in world politics and finance. And it's disgusting, you know, full stop.
- [14:23]
A
Well, let's, let's. I don't know about the word disgusting. I mean, the entire bro.
- [14:29]
D
Well, yeah, yeah. Okay, go ahead.
- [14:31]
F
Sorry.
- [14:31]
A
No, no, no, I, I, because you and I don't disagree that much. I, I just, it's this question of degree. I'm just a very practical human being.
- [14:38]
F
Right.
- [14:38]
A
You know, it's the notion and some of the things that the former head of the WEF has talked about. I mean, you know, we'll let them eat bugs and you know, control the population and take away all of our freedoms, go to a central bank, digital currency and do all that, all the, all the stuff that they have said, I mean, and they've said these things. This isn't a conspiracy theory that these folks believe that there's a two tiered society and they're the tops. You know, you pick your sci fi author and I'll give you the analogy, but that's all true. But the other thing that's equally true, and you have to realize, and I'm sure you agree with me, Adam, is that that organization has been to say we've called them the final boss multiple times vis a vis Bitcoin. Right. So the notion that we may very well have a softening in the World Economic Forum stance toward Bitcoin is good for our bags, but is likely to trigger fear, even more fear of co option, I think. Is that the way, Am I phrasing this?
- [15:44]
D
Yeah, I definitely think that's the way. And we've talked about it a little bit with, you know, stable coins and how, you know, it's potentially being, you know, co opted to some degree. And you know, your point is it kind of moves, you know, crypto forward. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I think at the core what it is, you know, for, for someone who's kind of a libertarian like myself, is that what we have is we have a group of people who think they know how to run the world best. And what we've seen through Covid in our lifetime is, or you know, the government in our lifetime is that when that happens and that group, you know, of, of small group of people have power like that, bad things tend to happen. And bitcoin is, is a direct threat to that. And, and you know, I look at it as all crypto is a direct threat to that. But can it be co opted and, and coerced to their, you know, to their liking? Of course. Right, of course. And so, you know, this is the thing we have to always keep an eye on. And you know, I mean, is it going to happen? It sure feels like it's going to happen to me in a lot of ways. We see with. I don't know if you guys have been tracking the kind of Monero attack that's happened over the last couple weeks. I don't know if we've talked about that. But you know, these are like, I don't know, it just gives me this sense of like, well, people like, well, how could bitcoin be attacked? It's, it, the, the, the mining infrastructure is too great. Right. But you look at how Monero got attacked through this kind of like, you know, mint a shitcoin and give it to miners and all of a sudden all the miners move to this thing because they get this extra, you know, revenue stream. And I'm not saying that's the way bitcoin is going to be attacked, but we need to pay attention to these sort of things about how, you know, what I would consider bad actors can, can take over bitcoin or can co opt it. So it's just something to keep in mind, like this is human nature. This is what everybody wants to do. Everybody wants power, everybody wants to be in control. This is the way we are. I'm not a big believer in like, you know, world cabal, but I just know that people in power want to stay in power, want to keep it. Right. And so we need to be very aware of this sort of stuff.
- [17:51]
A
Yeah, sorry. I see Gary, you know, jumped up on stage. I mean, I can only imagine that from a de Risking perspective, you think that Larry Fink at the World Economic Forum is yet another domino that's falling. I also thought it was interesting how your brother made the point over the weekend about 22, how much more money he would have made if he had invested in Bitcoin thoughts this morning, Gary.
- [18:21]
D
You muted Gary. Hey guys, I played cards till 3 o' clock in the morning, so I'm just getting my eyeballs up. Can I listen?
- [18:34]
A
Three in the morning, huh?
- [18:36]
D
Scared to show up.
- [18:38]
A
But I've been there. Been there and done that. But you did get called Matthew McConaughey this weekend. So you got that going for you.
- [18:45]
D
Well, hell, I think I got more bitcoin than Matthew.
- [18:51]
A
Well, I bet that's true. Well, I shouldn't say that. You never know. I mean, some of those guys are smarter than we think. But you know, I would imagine that having somebody who believes that Bitcoin is, is a strategic asset and that tokenization is going to be the dominant financial thing being in the world is something that would bring a smile to you. I would imagine three bleary eyed and needing a cup of coffee. You're notwithstanding. Okay, well, you know, having been in many, many a late night poker game myself, I'll stop picking on Gary. But you know, there's, there's a lot of thought processes this morning and a lot of stuff in crypto Twitter that are describing, you know, the best way to describe it is, is kind of, you know, fear, slash. Oh, are we in for it again? And I think the word, I forgot who used it. You know, PTSD is a large part of what people think. I mean, you know, lawyered, you know, what is your thought process on? Do you think that we're just going to sit like where we are around here for a while and you know, that's kind of what I think. And we also have the Fed talking at Jackson Hole this week, which I suspect will be a whole lot of nothing but with some volatility mixed in.
- [20:17]
C
Yeah, you know, I'm not a trader so I can't really time the market, but it does feel like we're going to be ranging for a while and I'm, I'm all for it.
- [20:29]
A
William?
- [20:31]
B
Yeah. I just want to say one thing about Jackson Hole this Friday and I listened to the previous hour, Dave, on the macro trends, what I expect here on Friday. I want to see if Powell is going to show that he was spooked or not from last week's numbers. That's what I'm looking for to see whether this 0.1 difference in the price index, how he's going to react to it. He has to touch on it, he has to say something either directly or indirectly. And that's what I'm going to be looking for on Friday.
- [21:10]
A
Yeah, we talked about that a lot this morning on Macro Monday, you know, James Lavish made the point that the numbers kind of show softening. You know, we saw the PPI is different than the CPI and the pce, which is the Fed's preferred notion. His point is they'll probably. And that the market is effectively pricing in a 25 basis point cut amid softening conditions without much fanfare. And that what he's going to do is talk about data dependence and will probably dampen expectations for anything going forward. I mean, I don't know what the market does in that scenario. My suspicion is stock market probably won't love it, but I don't think that that's going to create any major, you know, anything major because that's more or less what people expect. Okay, last topic. So we, you know, it's, it's very difficult in the summer and I'm still driving, so I do apologize. But, you know, yeah, Adam's enjoying, I.
- [22:25]
D
Just love, I love, I love when nobody has any comments and you're just driving your car and I can, I can hear you like navigating as you're driving, trying to keep this convo going and nobody's got any comments because it's the middle of summer and everybody's just napping and playing cards.
- [22:39]
A
Yeah, well, you know, it is, it's, it's, it is. There's a lot of that. I mean, you know, we all, we all joke about it. People are staring at, you know, whether it's their, you know, whatever application it is, whether it's coin reps or whether it's coin market cap or whether they're coinbase account or whatever. I mean, people are staring at it, wanting it to do something. And the real question is that those people wanting to do something, are they looking to buy, are they looking to sell, or what the hell are they doing? And the truth is they're not doing anything. And one of the points that I made this morning, which I think is not well appreciated, is that crypto, more than any other asset right now as an asset class, is dependent on what I would call momentum. So when, momentum, when there is a lot of volatility and this is, we're going to go to. The last topic is going to be microstrategy. Things happen. And I don't think people appreciate what that means. I mean, I've seen, I don't know if anyone has seen it, but. And it would be great if someone like Josh Mann were here to talk about it, but it feels like the tenor of the posting for crypto Twitter against microstrategy is exceedingly negative right now. Now that makes sense in a sense because microstrategy is dependent on volatility and volatility is, is really, really low. So you know, and, and there's implications of that. Is anybody else. Okay, so I'll continue. So what does that mean? So mstr, msty, all of these things, they're all selling volatility on bitcoin. When bitcoin volatility gets low, it's going to cause microstrategy stock in a reflexive loop to underperform and all of these things to underperform. The same thing is true when volatility increases. And so what you could end up happening is what the options traders would call it, but it's not options but it works out that way is we could end up with an interesting gamma situation. So I think that there's a possibility of a gamma squeeze in September if in fact there's any sort of rally and any sort of increase in volatility. And I don't think that the market is ready for that and I don't know if anyone up here cares, but I certainly do and I think a lot of our listeners very well might.
- [25:05]
D
So what would be the play with that, Dave? What would you do with the options in that case?
- [25:10]
A
Well, my thought process is as the yields start collapsing and you, and you see a bit of a sell off in microstrategy that as that accelerates if the price of bitcoin doesn't follow and starts to bounce and you start seeing volatility creep back into both their stock price and Bitcoin, that's when it could surprise to the upside if it rallies. And on the downside I think it's going to be more muted. I mean it could happen no doubt, unless there's a stock market crash. But I do think that when you're, when bitcoin gets really range bound and if you listen to Saylor, he talks about this at his last presentation or two presentations ago, he specifically talked about Bitcoin when bitcoin is range bound, how that, that, that his complex of assets tends to underperform and it performs better when it's moving. And that of course is true. So it's a really interesting scenario. And unfortunately he has three or four different assets now so you can't overgeneralize. But the yields go down when volatility goes down. And as I said, bitcoin volatility is low. So that's what's happening. The other thing is, the other interplay is microstrategy is still on an NAV basis despite having reasons for it to be trading above its book value is still cheap compared to most of the bitcoin treasury companies out there. You know, and that, that means that there's armed, there's stuff to be armed out of the system. That's what that means. Adam?
- [26:45]
D
Yeah, totally. Like we gotta, I mean this is the quietest crowd I've ever experienced on this show. It's, it's a special one today. Dave? Yeah, my question is because I don't track it too often, I, you know, I, I don't, I'm not a trader at all, I'm a buy and holder. But what is kind of settling is like the nav that's acceptable kind of for bitcoin and, and for eth. What, what's the NAV like? What's the general consensus right now and what that is and do you think, I guess volatility makes it go higher? Tell me, tell me kind of the current normie version of what, what's acceptable right now?
- [27:21]
A
Well, I mean if you look at, at a bitcoin at a Treasury company, I mean I don't see any mental model to evaluate a Treasury company on any asset as different than either somewhere between a closed end fund which can trade 20% up or down, as we've seen, or more in the case of grayscale, but 20% up or down from its nav to a bank which can trade anywhere from one and a half to two times its book value depending on how it can leverage the underlying asset. And so when you see a Treasury company trading at more than two times, it's nav. It's probably a sell in the long run. Although understand that these things get very hard to borrow and probably you could get squeezed out of your position before you want to, before you want to sell it. But it's certainly something to avoid from a long term holder. I took a lot of hate from this on Meta Planet when I said the same thing two months ago. Those people are noticeably quiet today.
- [28:22]
D
Well, tell me how the market got so tricked. Like I'm just thinking of sbet and I'm still underwater in SBET because I got, I got tricked into it, right?
- [28:31]
A
Well, because people don't look at these things. They, it's as I said it before, markets trade on momentum. Everybody thinks that they're smarter than everyone else. You know the old stat that 70 of all people think they're above average, right? Remember?
- [28:45]
G
Totally.
- [28:45]
A
Yeah. You know, well, the same thing is true in markets. So people think, well, I could buy this, but I can, I'll, I'll take my profit and I'll be able to sell before everybody else sells. It's literally the same thing. So if you're buying something that you know is a piece of crap or you know, you know, something like fartcoin, you know you're doing, you're buying it because you think you're gonna be able to sell it before everybody else does. Now, you're hoping in the case of memes that there's enough of a quote community out there that's holding on to the price or people that kind of think it see it as something where they're going to hold it. But you know, if you watch pump dot fun, there's a reason that almost every coin, I mean some 98 are total failures. Well, the reason is because there is no holder base ever. And so the people buy it thinking they can sell before everybody else. And there's a reason most people lose money on it. It's just that simple. So with these treasury companies, people are buying it on the hopes that they could sell it to somebody else. That's different. Microstrategy isn't like that. Microstrategy people are buying it because they want a levered play that can take advantage of the volatility when it starts to move, thinking it will outperform when it moves. It's just pure managed leverage. It's the same deal as why you own JP Morgan as opposed to holding US Treasuries. They both have big asset bases. JP Morgan can make revenue on it. Well, he hopes his microstrategy can. But when that hope of revenue is too high, it just goes away. And so we've seen that. But you know, the other thing that we saw last week is people are excited about crypto. Right. So the other big story last week was bullish. I don't know, we didn't talk about that much. But it matters because you see a company trading at 75 times revenue on their IPO and that is a sign of froth. But it's a particular type of froth. It's the froth that says equity holders want to get crypto exposure on the come. And that's different than a Treasury company where you're just owning the asset. So there is a huge demand for operating companies that are in the crypto space. That that's the takeaway that I have. Does that make sense to you, Adam?
- [30:57]
D
Yeah. Totally. I, I just. Yeah, I'm still a little salty about sbet. I, I can't even. It's hard to even imagine because I wasn't paying attention in the first, you know, day or whatever it was where it ran to, I don't know, 100 plus dollars or something like that. Now, markets are irrational. I mean, obviously, it's just, it's just like crazy to believe that that was. I don't even know what that was. That was 20 times nav, 30 times. I mean, some crazy number, right?
- [31:25]
A
It was insane times now.
- [31:27]
D
I mean, literally insane times. And like, what. God help that person who bought at a hundred. Like, you know, what was he thinking? Was he. Was he thinking it was going to go to a thousand? Like, I mean, just crazy. But that's the way it is. I mean, I, this is just one of these examples where, you know, and we talked about it before, like you said, it's. It's basically at that stage, it's basically a meme coin. And it's just, it's stunning to me when the market is that irrational, when you can actually calculate the nav. Right. And so it's. Yeah, it's. It's stunning to see. I guess the only other thing is, you know, do people put, you know, when I'm, when I'm thinking about Ethereum, do people put a premium on Tom Lee? Right. And do they say, well, he's a. And I think this is actually true. I think, you know, he's a much better salesman than, Than Lubin is. Right. And so, and people believe him. You know, they trust him more. So does that add sort of any value? It doesn't seem like it should add any real value, but would that kind of bump that nav up higher than, Than what sbet would be simply because you have a better operator, you know, for, I mean, on the bitcoin side, it might be, okay, well, Sailor's a better operator than, I don't know, Jack Mallers.
- [32:40]
A
Right.
- [32:40]
D
Or whatever, whoever the, the, the other guys may be. Right. I mean, is there any kind. Are you seeing a premium on that based on.
- [32:48]
A
It's like the Jamie diamond premium. You know, there's going to be some, but it's, but it's marginal. Right. You know, so 1.5 to 1.7. You know, whatever the number is, you know, you'll get some of that. I mean, it's. Clearly, there's value in a good CEO and there's a lot more value in a CEO who has a vision that goes beyond Just, you know, accumulating assets. Right. You know, and so there will be some of that. Anyway, William, you have your hand up.
- [33:15]
B
Yeah, just quickly because I have to drop off as well. I'm driving. I can only comment about the Ethereum asset. Treasury companies, you have to remember most all of the top three right now are only like weeks old in terms of announcements and getting going. So it's a bit too early to judge them on their returns, on their performance and how will they be measured. So I think they are still in the honeymoon period right now perhaps for another at least one or two quarters. And some of the return models may be different than what we have seen with the Bitcoin ones because Ethereum is a more productive asset. At least it has more activity underlying its defi capabilities. So a lot of these companies are going to get crude creative in how they utilize their Ethereum holdings and I think we have to wait and see what the next two quarters will, will tell us in terms of how they plan on telling us about their performance.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah. Sasha, you have your hand up before I respond to that.
- [34:27]
B
Yeah.
- [34:28]
E
You know, was, maybe it's better if you respond in all because it's what I was going to say was going to be different.
- [34:35]
B
Okay.
- [34:35]
A
Well all I was going to say is every time I see an Ethereum rally and we hear Joe Lubin and others talking about how it's superior money, it's a more productive asset, my response is, well, Ethereum is a tech asset that is based upon its activity and usage. Bitcoin is a denominator asset that is based upon its value. And trying to mix those metaphors often creates a almost impossible tortured logic. And so, you know, I know Adam's going to agree with that and Gary probably as well but you know, it's probably a longer form conversation Anyway. Sasha, what were you going to change to. Because we, we're going to have a sponsor in a few minutes, so let's go.
- [35:18]
E
Yeah, what I was going to say is I think also you have, we have to take a step back and you know, try and like what is micro or strategy and Michael Saylor trying to achieve. And, and it's the way they started with all, with this Bitcoin thing.
- [35:34]
G
Right.
- [35:34]
E
From their perspective was treasury management and that's really what they're trying to get to. And, and Michael Sailor mentioned doing a $100 billion credit facility for Bitcoin. Right. For treasury management. And I think that's, that's what the long term goal of what they're trying to achieve is. And when it comes to the digital asset treasuries, I think there is also a big differentiation between the asset, the assets that are publicly traded and the securities offering that are being done in private markets. And these often have different profiles. And that's something that people often forget.
- [36:11]
A
Yep, I think that's right. Hey, before I read another disclaimer, Buzz, are you almost ready?
- [36:20]
G
I'm ready to rock whenever you are, my friend.
- [36:22]
A
Okay, well, before we do that, I just want to say, hey folks, the quick disclaimer. This last segment is brought to you by a partner of Crypto Town Hall. Imagine front running Wall street in the world's fourth largest crypto. A deflationary powerhouse that yields staking rewards that fuels one of the most active blockchains on the planet. BNB has outpaced Bitcoin with 25 times returns over five years. Yet it's been off limits to most U.S. investors until now. Enter CEA Industries ticker BNC boy, Nancy, Charlie on NASDAQ, the first publicly traded company to adopt BNB as its core treasury asset. Echoing MicroStrategy's Bitcoin playbook. Backed by institutions like 10X Capital and Yzi Labs, they've raised $500 million, positioning for massive inflows from ETFs, exchanges and sovereign funds. Sophisticated investors. This is your back door to BNB exposure via a single ticker. Start your due diligence on NASDAQ BNC today before institutions flood in and the edge vanishes. Buzz, you ready to rock and roll?
- [37:22]
F
Yeah.
- [37:22]
G
I see we have Richard in the listeners as well. I mean, Richard Sealer who's on the show quite a bit, he's been calling that there's going to be some public companies working with BNB for a while. So if Richard's listening in, I'm sure he's excited about that segment. But we do have a sponsor on the show as well. It's Ako. Why don't we get a mic test from Ako, maybe introduce yourself just as we're getting started here with our sponsor segment.
- [37:50]
F
Hi guys. Yeah, definitely. Thanks a lot for the intro. Yeah, you were mentioning about BNB Trader Strategies and yeah, we're actually building BNB chain and currently we're in the BNB chain ecosystem and we're in the AI category. We're AI company and right now we're building an AI framework that can empower users, create creators to create some custom games in minutes. So, you know, right now AI is very fast. It's really fast developing and we're leveraging AI into some applications so you don't need any coding scale knowledge. You know, our AI agents will help you, you know, work on that. You just tell the agents what you want to build. Yeah. And then you will generate a game that for you. You can also make it very customizable to upload some of your images, your graphics and that will be really featured. Yeah. Right now our product is already live and you can try it out. Yeah, that's something about Akato.
- [38:51]
A
Thanks.
- [38:53]
G
What do you think is the biggest problem that you're looking to solve with a cato?
- [38:59]
F
Oh yeah, I would like to get it very quick because right now I think we've seen lots of AI infra and AI framework, but really you don't really see lots in AI, you know, applications. And I think right now we're addressing, you know, some people understand their perspective on AI and we want to make the user want to utilize into people's daily life right now. Yeah, And I think we, you know, another thing that we want to address is that I think games are pretty. GameFi is really, you know, down currently in the, I mean the market. So we really want to revive it and to add AI features to games. So I think based upon what I described, I think from the application side and plus to revive gamefi, I think that's something that we have been working on and also because I think it's amazing, each player can be a game studio and you don't really need any coding knowledge and skill. Very similar way to roblox. For roblox, I think lots of people know that. And also the very early stage for TikTok, so that's something that we actually were building upon, early stage of TikTok and also Roblox, to make sure that you can be a creator by leveraging our tool and to make it pretty fun and to build your own community based on our AI tools and in our platform. So that's something that we're about to address and I think it works pretty well.
- [40:33]
G
You mentioned early in your first answer introducing Akedo that the product is live. Is that in an MVP stage or can all users go sign up and start using it right now and taking a peek?
- [40:50]
F
Yeah, definitely. Our product is actually already live and you can tap into my page and check out everything because we already partnered with some names like bnb, Chan like Barachan, some another tabby chain and some memes like Simon's Cat and some lots other big names you can check out under our X page. We've already created some games for them. Wipe coded. I mean they actually wipe coded the games on our platform featuring their IP like Barra's ip like you know, some other means ip. So that's something that will actually pretty alive and the product is actually pretty mature and there are also you know, tens of thousands of daily active users. You can check the daily metrics on BNB chain. So I think that's something we're still like very early stage but we're still trying to upgrade our features to make it customizable to more users. Because with our AI system we're actually gathering the users behaviors and their feedback to gathering the data to feed the AI to make sure the more feature to our users behaviors. And that's something we're also doing and recently we also campaigns with 4 meme. 4 meme is the largest launchpad, you know, mint coin launchpad on BNB chain. And we hosted a very big campaign and you can also check it out, it's in progress and we've already seen thousands of users, I mean they have been creating games based on BNB chain featuring for Meme and they're actually creating games and to five for a price pool, it's a large one, you can check it out by yourself. And yeah, the product is actually fully mature and I think that's very exciting moments for us.
- [42:54]
G
I love when you're referencing the users and adoption that you guys have gotten thus far, you're really highlighting that not only do you guys have a lot of users who have signed up, but there is a large amount of users comparatively to across the corner crypto ecosystem that are actually using the product because those are metrics that obviously would be very hard to fake. And in crypto I think there's a lot of products out there that claim to have a million users and things like that, but oftentimes it could just be people who are signing up for an airdrop. So I commend you for really highlighting the number of people who are using the product for what it's meant for. That's awesome. And for people who are tuning in, I did pin a post up in the nest from the Akato official account, the handle iskedofun. So I first welcome people to give that page a follow but also to go to its bio. That's where you can access the link tree for all of your official links. And I chose this post to pin up there because it's the countdown to tge. So I'm sure that a lot of people are interested in getting some more details on the TGE if you don't mind sharing.
- [44:04]
F
Yeah, absolutely. We're pretty approaching ROTG like in this week and you can actually check out Kucoins has already made their announcement about keto listing Aikido information but right now they're actually running an IEO or there's four nights and you can actually check the link. You can actually check the link. There are already, you know millions of US dollars have been subscribed for the Spotlight has already in over subscribed and it's, it's increasing. It's already, it's all, it's. I mean it's increasing so you can check it out. I think the token is pretty welcome and gradually we will have like more exchanges big names like coming out about our list information and yeah that's it's still alpha but yeah but you can just you know keep your eyes on it and we're going to roll it out probably in the next two days and you're going to say that you know because I really appreciate our you know, development team because most of that pretty experienced and pretty professional hard working really. I mean great work ethic. I've seen that. You know been working day and night. Yeah. So just because we're pretty approaching our teacher there are so many, so many features to be developed like Air Jobs, like Air Job, like Claim page. Like you know the earlier I mentioned about the AI Create feature and the Play Job feature and also some other trivia things but they've been persistent. Right now everything's ready so we're so ready for our TGE and yeah that's something that I would like to mention I think. Yeah I'm pretty. We're so confident because we've been working, working on this project for over a year and it's been building quite a while. I've been through like you know a lot. I think it's. Yeah we're going to test it and we're going to test the resilience and see how it goes with rotg and I think the list information will be rolled out pretty soon and. And we're actually pretty satisfied with what, what we have so far and what we have now. And you if you're into that you can keep your eyes on let's. You can also go to our Kucoin page and just see how that goes and guys just keep your eyes on it.
- [46:23]
G
Yeah, that's wonderful. So. So not an exact day and time yet for TGE but for those who are tuning in make sure that you follow the Aido account and you can also put the notification bell on as well. As soon they'll be tweeting out an exact day and time for you to prepare leading up to TGE for however you'd like to play that. But my next question is really around strategy. So I'm curious about what your strategies are for sustaining ongoing development and also for supporting the value and the growth of the token as well.
- [47:00]
F
Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I think we've already got our product live and there's so many uses creating, create, creating games arcade. So there will be like some protocol phase from that. And we're actually having another exciting product coming to our platform pretty soon because we not only want players to be creators or to increase more creators, we're also integrating a monetization layer. So we really want the creators to monetize their work. So that is why in a, in one month we're gonna integrate another Launchpad Meme Coin Launchpad. It's, it's, it's a little bit different from traditional ones. It's very much like, you know, from traditional ones. And yeah, you can create games pro, you can create your main. Probably in, in few minutes. And yeah, you just, you, you just need to have like an image. You can create a meme under Launchpad, what we're doing something like currently we have this product play job feature. You create your games and you can integrate some tokens into your games. Any token like USDT or BNB or Doge or Bank or any other meme tokens into the game. Users can play your game and earn these tokens. And in this case you can create your own community. And afterwards you can also tokenize your game. You can tokenize your games on our Meme Coin Launchpad. So in this way the difference is that after you create your meme token, you already have a community and you have also something that you can let your users to play. Probably you can distribute some of your meme tokens to the users who have played your games. So I think that's the key difference, you know, because you know, in the past right now actually the game quality is pretty good. I suppose lots of people, they have experienced the, the wave of tongue or the telegram. So I have to tell you that each of game you create Aikido will be better, will be better quality than most of the games on Telegram Melee up. So that's something that's, that's pretty interesting. Yeah, that's, that's actually something that we worry about your Chief. Like you know, you create. You create and you monetize and you stay. So that's, that's, that's part one. And of course there will be some staking feature. You stake your, your AK or our governance token. You're going to gain rewards. And also there will be. We're also talking to some, some public firms like to do, you know, treasury, you know, acquisition. That's. We're also talking to some public firms like that. We're also talking to some liquid funds like to support some OTC deals, like to provide more liquidity. Yeah, that's something on the development. So yeah, that's the strategy we're going to leverage and I hope you're going to perform pretty well.
- [50:09]
A
Very cool.
- [50:10]
G
Well, again to the audience, make sure that you're clicking on the Cato count up here. Obviously they're opposite speaker with their account but also that, that pin post. So if there's anything that is striking your interest, make sure that you're just going to their official account and following official links because leading up to a tge, I'm sure that there's going to be a lot of scammers and phishing attempts out there. So we're making sure to highlight those official links. But as we're, we're wrapping up here, is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience or any final call to action of how they can get involved or learn more or maybe stay up to date with the tge?
- [50:48]
F
Yeah, definitely. I'd like to also wrap up like about what I've just mentioned about. I think we're one of the first projects, AI projects we have already put into application in creating games. I think we're one of the first projects in Web3 and also we're one of the top AI projects in the BNB chain. We've also got Lozino backers. You can check out our profile, some Lozino Western VCs we've actually met Lozino funds. I think that's something else I would like to mention and also very exciting about our TG and Lozino exchanges, Tier 1 exchanges and coming pretty soon. And you're going to check our announcement about our listing information and really encourage you to keep your eyes on it. You don't have to engage, but probably you can keep your eyes on it. I think we're also going to make some waves probably in three days. And that's more about our Mincoin launchpad. I have to mention we'll also be ready for that not only the product also I think if you are experienced like in web3 probably you know, virtues I think they've been generating hundreds of millions of dollars like through their own LaunchPad PalmDoll think billions of US dollars generated from Palm Fun and also in other Launchpad need us to see lots of others and we're actually building something similar and I'd prefer to call it like an AI Launchpad. AI mean coin Launchpad. I think that's a pattern name and in this way I think we're going to generate a lot of income like to make sure the revenue goes to buy back the tokens and we're also talking to some public firms like for the treasury acquisition and also the liquid funds like to back it up. So lots of things are ongoing and we will continue to build and with our very strong tactic and you know, contribute to contribute to the ecosystem to make sure that you know more users engaging on to make sure more users to be creators on to monetize their work and a similar model to Roblox. They really want to be the Web3 version of Roblox. So yeah that the way is still very early for us because AI is developing so fast. We're going to leverage I mean this AI models are going to continue our strengths and to expand. Expand like our eco. Yeah, that, that would be something that I would like to mention guys, you know Arcado is on the rise. Just keep your eyes on it. Thanks a lot.
- [53:29]
G
Excellent. Well, I appreciate you joining us today. Definitely if you're tuning in and like what you're hearing, give them a follow like I said, but follow all of your other speakers as well. I know that we've lost a couple here just towards the end, but all these speakers who are speaking on the show today, they're not only dropping alpha in crypto town hall spaces, but they're attending many other spaces as well and often have really great content on their timelines. So give them all a follow if you're trying to learn more and kind of gain the alpha in this space right now. A little bit of a red day, but I wish everyone a great and happy Monday. Hopefully we get some some green candles here And Cato, I wish you guys all the best leading up to the tg. I know that's one of the most important moments for for a project. Also very time consuming and a lot of hard work that goes into it.
- [54:17]
A
So.
- [54:17]
G
So as we're wrapping up, I just want to wish you all the best and all the success moving forward. So Take care, everyone. Have a great day and we'll be back tomorrow at 10:15am Eastern with another episode of Crypto Town Hall. Thanks, everyone. Take care.
- [54:43]
B
Sa.