How To Arbitrage Bitcoin With @Tryarchpublic | Crypto Town Hall

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Wolf Of All Streets – "How To Arbitrage Bitcoin With @Tryarchpublic | Crypto Town Hall"

Release Date: February 14, 2025
Host: Scott Melker
Guest: Dan Schooler
Additional Participants: Andrew, Tillman, Gary, Rodney

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Introduction: Navigating the Crypto Legislative Landscape

Scott Melker opens the episode by addressing current sentiments in the crypto community, highlighting varying perspectives on the evolving legislative environment in Washington, D.C. He notes, “[...] the velocity of news coming out of D.C. since the Trump administration has taken over is pretty astounding” (00:00). The discussion swiftly moves to legislative efforts impacting the crypto industry, with Dan Schooler providing an overview of ongoing legislative activities.

Legislative Developments: Stablecoins and Market Structure

Dan Schooler delves into the specifics of crypto-related legislation, emphasizing the importance of stablecoin bills. He states, “There are three different stablecoin bills now that have been proposed” (01:14), outlining their presence in both the Senate and the House. Schooler discusses the proactive stance of new congressional members and subcommittees focused on digital assets, highlighting the collaborative efforts between agencies like the OCC and SEC under new leadership.

Notable Quote:
"All indications are saying that that council is not going to be a council like originally intended. It's going to be much more of a series of summits, which I think probably is better in the long run."
— Dan Schooler (02:45)

The Evolution of the Crypto Council

The conversation shifts to the anticipated transformation of the White House’s Digital Assets Council into a series of summits. Schooler expresses optimism about the industry's representation in policy-making, despite previous challenges related to tribalism within the crypto space.

Regulatory Shifts and SEC Collaboration

Dan Schooler highlights improvements in regulatory approaches, particularly within the SEC, now equipped with a dedicated crypto task force. He remarks, “It's actually a lot better than it was like the last four years” (07:15), underscoring the collaborative potential between the SEC and CFTC with pro-crypto leadership. This marks a significant shift from past regulatory antagonism, paving the way for more informed and supportive policies.

ETF Expansion and Financial Product Innovation

Scott Melker transitions the discussion to the burgeoning ETF landscape, mentioning several developments:

• SEC’s acceptance of Grayscale’s 19B4 application.
• The New York Stock Exchange’s initiative to establish a Dogecoin ETF.
• iShares’ filings for staking in their Ethereum ETFs.

Andrew, a guest co-host, elaborates on the implications of these ETF approvals, predicting a flood of new financial products tailored to crypto assets. He asserts, “This stuff is going to get approved unless it's just absolute lunacy” (14:04), highlighting Wall Street’s keen interest in monetizing the volatility and novelty of crypto assets.

GameStop’s Strategic Pivot to Bitcoin

A significant portion of the episode examines GameStop's rumored inclusion of Bitcoin on its balance sheet, which allegedly caused a 20% surge in after-hours trading. Rodney analyzes the strategic benefits, stating, “You're going to get a top end growth by adding Bitcoin to your balance sheet” (31:49). The panel debates the potential ripple effects this move could have across other public companies, although skepticism remains about widespread adoption beyond niche or tightly controlled entities.

Notable Quote:
"The big news is we're on the way to get a lawsuit because everyone can do this and it's going to be outside of the gaming sphere, but we're starting to see it happen because they're very tightly controlled because they have on their publicly traded companies that are operating in a specific space."
— Scott Melker (34:32)

Introducing Triarch Public: Automated Bitcoin Arbitrage and DCA

Scott Melker introduces Triarch Public, co-hosted by Andrew and Tillman, as a groundbreaking tool for Bitcoin arbitrage and dollar cost averaging (DCA). Rodney explains, “Our software is the most advanced tool that I've ever seen in the market” (42:42), emphasizing its automation capabilities that allow users to set predefined buying schedules based on market conditions without manual intervention.

Notable Quotes:

• “Our arbitrage Strategy is annualized 247% per year and then you get 10 to 20% cash yield on top of it.”
  — Andrew (48:53)

• “It's about acquiring Bitcoin and getting a tremendous amount of exposure to price.”
  — Rodney (46:28)

Panel Discussion: The Future of Crypto Financial Products

Gary and Tillman engage in a deep dive on the integration of decentralized finance (DeFi) with traditional financial instruments. They discuss the challenges and opportunities in creating staking rewards and yield-bearing stablecoins within ETFs, highlighting the necessity for seamless technical implementations and regulatory compliance.

Gary notes, “Most likely the biggest users of this long term are going to be upstarts just like in the dot com days” (23:00), suggesting that innovative startups will drive the adoption of crypto within the traditional financial framework.

MasterCard’s Tokenization and Industry Skepticism

An intriguing segment covers MasterCard’s claim of tokenizing 30% of its 2024 transactions. Gary expresses skepticism, comparing it to previous ambiguous blockchain initiatives, suggesting that without tangible on-chain settlement, such claims may lack substantive impact.

Notable Quote:
"Unless they're talking about starting to settle real transactions via stable coins [...] then it's not interesting, right?"
— Gary (25:21)

Closing Thoughts: Embracing Automated Investment Tools

The episode concludes with Triarch Public’s team encouraging listeners to leverage their free Bitcoin arbitrage and DCA tools. Rodney emphasizes, “Now just buy more Bitcoin, whether it's with our software or with anybody else's” (56:49), reinforcing the mission to democratize Bitcoin investment through advanced, user-friendly platforms.

Scott Melker wraps up by urging the audience to explore Triarch Public’s offerings and to stay engaged with future Crypto Town Hall episodes for ongoing insights and developments within the crypto space.

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Notable Timestamps and Quotes

• 00:00 – Scott Melker: “Getting our panel up as usual. Experiencing some glitching...”

• 01:14 – Dan Schooler: “There are three different stablecoin bills now that have been proposed.”

• 02:45 – Dan Schooler: “All indications are saying that that council is not going to be a council like originally intended. It's going to be much more of a series of summits...”

• 07:15 – Dan Schooler: “It's actually a lot better than it was like the last four years.”

• 14:04 – Andrew: “This stuff is going to get approved unless it's just absolute lunacy.”

• 31:49 – Rodney: “You're going to get a top end growth by adding Bitcoin to your balance sheet.”

• 34:32 – Scott Melker: “The big news is we're on the way to get a lawsuit because everyone can do this...”

• 42:42 – Rodney: “Our software is the most advanced tool that I've ever seen in the market.”

• 48:53 – Andrew: “Our arbitrage Strategy is annualized 247% per year and then you get 10 to 20% cash yield on top of it.”

• 56:49 – Rodney: “Now just buy more Bitcoin, whether it's with our software or with anybody else's.”

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Final Recommendations

Listeners are encouraged to explore Triarch Public for automated Bitcoin investment strategies, leverage the insights discussed on legislative developments, and stay informed about the burgeoning ETF landscape and its implications for the crypto market. The panel emphasizes the importance of adopting innovative tools and staying ahead in the rapidly evolving crypto financial ecosystem.

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For more details, visit Triarch Public and follow @archpublic for updates.

Transcript

[Scott]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Crypto Town Hall. Happy Valentine's Day to those who celebrate. Crypto Town hall is every weekday 10:15am Eastern Standard Time. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good night, depending on where you are in the world. Getting our panel up as usual. Experiencing some glitching, trying to get some guests up. But luckily I saw that Dan Schooler was here and I quickly changed the title Dan so that you and I can talk about what's happening. Obviously in D.C. a lot of people describing the crypto news cycle right now as getting more boring. I think you got it. Just depends on where you look. The velocity of news coming out of D.C. since the Trump administration has taken over is pretty astounding. And every appointment, every piece of news seems more bullish than the last generally. So I don't know where you would want to start. I think Quinten's, OCC Gould, all of these incredible places. But maybe we could talk about the legislation that's on the table right now.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. And I, I gotta apologize, I only got 10 minutes, but I definitely want to come back.

[Scott]

Perfect.

[Dan]

Yeah, we. The legislation, you know, I know Ron wanted to be on. We'll get him up here one of these days when he's back. But it's really. Right now it is. I don't want to say it's boring, but right now it's heads down. I think a lot of these, especially the new incoming members of Congress, the new ones, and then the new subcommittees, the Digital Assets subcommittee on the Senate side and on the House side, they're really working hard. There's three different stablecoin bills now that have been proposed. One on the Senate, two in the House. A lot of them emulate what the McHenry version was the year before. This past year, don't forget, the Senate's also been pretty focused on getting these cabinet confirmations done. They thankfully got Kennedy out, they got Tulsi Gabbard in. They're going to get Cash Patel in soon. Once that all squares away, then it's onto the second tier appointments. And when I say second tier, I'm talking about not necessarily the big cabinet level, but the other agencies such as Quintess, such as Paul Atkins at the sec. A lot of these sub agency heads, those are just as important in many regards for. And then the White House. We met with Bo Hines at our office earlier this week. He is of course the executive director of the Digital Assets Council in the White House, working under David Sacks. Beau handles the Crypto side. And then another individual handles the AI side. He's out again doing this listening tour. He's really listening to the industry, taking notes, just absorbing as much as he can, like a sponge. I definitely want to get him on one of these town halls. I was still working on that. I think it's going to happen soon. And, and then, of course, the. The discussion around the crypto council itself. All indications are saying that that council is not going to be a council like originally intended. It's going to be much more of a series of summits, which I think probably is better in the long run. The council concept in theory made sense, but it. I'm sure you've seen the news reports. There's just a lot of tribalism in the space and everybody was jockeying to get on it to the point where it was almost ridiculous. And without going to dig into that in a second.

[Scott]

Yeah, keep going, but I want to dig into that.

[Dan]

Yeah, we can dig into that. It's probably a longer conversation, but the point is the industry is going to have a great voice. We're being listened to on all different fronts. Stablecoins, market structure, defi, bitcoin, you name it. So I think we have a really, really good listener in the White House and in this new Senate. In House. Yeah.

[Scott]

I think it might have been a conversation that we had with Ron here. I'm not sure. It may have been you. We have a lot of conversations where we basically kind of dug into the fact that we had this cohesive, quote, unquote, lobby, obviously to get Biden ousted and to get Trump in to kind of create a more favorable environment, but the likelihood that that lobby would become very disjointed and competitive after Trump won. So is that kind of what you're alluding to here?

[Dan]

In a way? Yeah. It's unfortunate because. Right. Everybody teamed up and we had a really good year last year coming together, I think, as an industry. But now that the, you know, everything's been settled, a lot of these industry entities are trying to jockey for position. I don't want to say just to pump their bags, but everybody and their brother wants to be on this council. And I asked Beau and the others, is this going to be a blue ribbon commission? Meaning is it going to be just, you know, in name only, honorary? And the answer was no. They really wanted this to be a commission, an entity that's going to help roll their sleeves up and help us formulate really strong policy and recommendations from the executive branch to then, you know, Execute and recommend on the legislative side, listen, I'm still very optimistic and I think it's going to, we have, it's still very early, you know, we're not even a month in but all eyes and all the indicators I'm seeing are, you know, we're on the right track.

[Scott]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I know you only have a couple more minutes on these stablecoin bills. Obviously we have quite a few proposed. One of them including from Maxine Waters which as I kind of reviewed seems like it has quite a few landmines in it. We still are in a position where we have to not just get legislation but get it right. Correct.

[Dan]

That's right. And that's, that's that and I think it will. I mean this is the year, this is the low hanging fruit. I think honestly it's from our position in the blockchain association the priorities to us right now are stablecoin legislation and of course the market structure which is going to be a little bit more difficult but we're going to get them both done and the stablecoin legislation. Both chambers are talking, both parties are talking. I think they'll be somewhere in the middle on the Maxine waters slash former McHenry version. And then the Senate one's looking good too. Tim Scott and of course Hagerty and the others put together really, really good proposals. Ron could get more into that than I can. I just went from my side high level. The conversations are happening. There's some sausage making happening in the process right now but the key, the key stakeholders are on board and it will be bipartisan.

[Simon]

Sorry Scott, can I ask, what do.

[Rodney]

You mean by market structure?

[Simon]

Sorry, did you get, what do you mean by market structure?

[Dan]

So the market structure, if you recall last year the fit 21 bill, it's really a way for the industry and just the government to be able to have formal classifications on where these digital assets fall under CFTC sec. And the classifications and the definitions.

[Scott]

It'S almost like a token taxonomy for the government. Simon is kind of like the second probably priority after stable coins. I don't want to speak out of.

[Dan]

Term but I think that's, they're both hugely important. Honestly the market structure is I think probably the most important but the stablecoins I think can get done quicker but they're both very, very important.

[Scott]

Yeah, I just meant in terms of what's likely to get done in order. Maybe I'm wrong but it feels like stablecoin is the lowest thing you flip through yes.

[Dan]

Yeah, I agree. I would agree.

[Simon]

Is there a lot of posturing like the SEC wants to regulate something or how is that kind of driven, do you think?

[Dan]

It's actually a lot better than it was like the last four years. The fact that now the SEC, under Hester and acting chair UADA set up this internal SEC task, a crypto task force within their staff, I mean, that's insane compared to where we were, you know, a few months ago. And now with Quintess coming in and with Atkins coming in. The difference is these two agencies, I think are going to collaborate, they're going to talk. There's always been a turf war between the CFTC and sec, but I think the difference now is that you have two pro crypto heads. I mean that's, that's very significant and I think we're going to have some good action there and then the industry will be brought in also. Just like the White House is doing that, you know, summit and the, and the industry feedback. I think the agencies are doing this. EBI Hester's purse has already asked for that. So please, you know, reach out to this task force. You know, there's a website, there's an email. You know, they want to hear from you. It's not like when Gensler was there.

[Simon]

And do you think the OCC wants stablecoins?

[Dan]

Occ? Yeah. So that's the other one that they got, the acting guy, Rodney. He's terrific. I mean he's really.

[Scott]

Rodney Hood.

[Rodney]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He's supportive of our industry. Yeah. I think the OCC certainly wants some type of stablecoin legislative regulatory regime. You know, whether that's a federal version or a state level version. I think that's always been the big difference between, you know, like the circles of the world and the Paxos of the world. They have differences of opinion and how it should be regulated. But. But I think there will be an option, just like they have with banks.

[Scott]

Hood is the temporary chairman of the fcc. Right. But they're floating Jonathan Gould, who unbelievably for the head of the SEC was a bit fury. Talk about literally putting a bitcoin miner at the head of the occ.

[Dan]

What a trifecta that would be too if we had Gould and Atkins and Quintas. Those are the three major financial regulators for us. I mean that you couldn't really ask for anything better. So I think that's a great sign.

[Scott]

I guess the FDIC is the next question mark. They're actually floating the idea of wrapping FDIC into Treasury. Right. Is that realistic?

[Dan]

I don't think that's realistic. I mean the CFPB is definitely. That's on the way out. But the fdic, the way that there's historians in the room here, I'm sure that was structured for a reason. I don't know if they would fully lump that into treasury, but we'll see.

[Rodney]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And if you need to go. Totally understand.

[Dan]

Yeah, no, I'll stick on for another minute or two, but I appreciate it. And again, let's, let's do this again.

[Scott]

Yeah, awesome. I mean, so just, you know, as a summary for people, we have legislation that's literally being pushed forward. We have. David Sachs had the. What many viewed as an underwhelming press conference. Yes. If you watch political press conferences, they're all underwhelming. But what's notable there is he had the chairman of the four committees that are necessary to actually get legislation done. So financial in both houses and then aggregate agriculture in both houses. Huge step. We had a hearing on the Congress floor. The golden age of digital assets and crypto is literally what it was called. And we now have this legislation on the books and a pro bitcoiner in basically every cabinet position possible. Not only the financial positions like the occ, SEC and cftc, but also obviously Health and Human Services, National Security. Every single person who's being appointed everywhere is seemingly a bitcoiner. Dan, it's pretty. I mean, I know you got to go. It's pretty unbelievable. Just, I mean you couldn't imagine a better scenario. We got to get this done.

[Dan]

That's right. I think that's the big part of. We've worked so hard for this. I mean this is the work of a lot of different. You know, the politics was a big part of it and just educating a lot of these officials over the years now that they're in power, you know we can leverage this and you know, we can't get it done now. I mean this is. The stars really have aligned. It's not going to be perfect. But I think now is the time for us to really take some action and we'll.

[Scott]

Is there a sentiment that it has to get done in the next two years? Because there's fear of, you know, the House or Senate flipping in the midterms.

[Dan]

I mean, that is a factor. I mean the first hundred days are always the first key strengths in any administration. When he's. He's riding a high right now, approval ratings very high. And then from the legislative side, yes, the midterms probably will not be as pretty for the Republicans this go around certainly on the House side. The Senate, they probably can hold, but the House is going to be pretty tight. So yeah, we need to get some things done now. And that's why we're going to continue to build bipartisan support for this industry too. I mean, we got to make sure we get more Democrats so we don't necessarily get back to the way.

[Scott]

If the Senate goes Democrat, then Elizabeth Warren will be chair of Financing Finance Committee again.

[Dan]

Catastrophic. All right, guys, I got to drop.

[Scott]

Thank you, Dan. Much appreciated. I mean, we have quite a bit of other news. I know Matt Hogan from Bitwise was going to be a guest today. We quite. He's not here at the moment, but we have quite a bit of ETF news. We had the SEC confirming the acceptance of a 19B4 application from Grayscale and the New York Stock Exchange to establish a Doge ETF. We have quite a few Doge ETFs now. Proposed spot XRP ETF amended for grayscale. We saw that we had, I believe iShares was officially filing for staking in their Ethereum ETFs. I mean, I think it's pretty clear guys, that. Andrew, go to you. It's pretty clear here that we're about to get a whole lot of financial project products in crypto that didn't exist before.

[Andrew]

Well, there's just again, a huge adjustment in, in the regulatory environment. And that adjustment has gone from, you know, a hard no as often as we can say it to free markets. We'll approve all of this stuff and people are free to engage with it how they want. If they want to buy it, they can buy it. If they want to allocate capital to it, they can do that. They can choose not to do that. We'll allow free markets to decide who the winners and losers are. So if you're somebody that wants to allocate meaningful capital to a DOGE etf, feel free to do so. Not something I necessarily would do personally, but if you want to, go right ahead. And so all of this stuff stuff is what the signal is, is that all of this stuff is going to get approved unless it's just absolute lunacy. But the question then becomes what is the definition of absolute lunacy? We have 3x short or 3x long individual stock ETFs. Right? The. The most, the most traded ETF in 2024 with the most volume was 2x long Nvidia. So you know, the question about what is nuts and what isn't nuts isn't necessarily the question. It's free markets. This stuff is going to get approved and if you, if you choose to buy it, that's up to you.

[Simon]

I think about. Yeah, I was just going to say do you know anything about whether there was an announcement around DJT actually applying for a Bitcoin ETF for Trump's public company?

[Scott]

Was Trump Fi. Trump Fi, I think is the new company they're filing and that they're also applying for ETFs. I don't think we have much more info in that on that, but that was announced last week. So interesting to see what happens there. Andrew, what other kind. Okay, we, we know that the ETFs are coming. What other products are we looking for that will catch us up to what's available for every other asset class?

[Andrew]

Well, so, so you know, it's interesting, there's been notes that have been sent out by Goldman Sachs to their institutional customers and they talk about options, they talk about swaps, they talk about arbitrage associated with again the ETFs and other products inside of the, both the Bitcoin and Ethereum ecosystems. Again, that presupposes that when these other ETFs get approved, they'll be doing the same type of business with those ETFs. When ETFs are created, they're now a stamp of approval to become part of the traditional financial system. No matter how wacky we may think it is, it's tradable and can be used in a bunch of different ways. Again, it's wild that we are going to get a DOGE etf. It just sounds crazy for me to even say that, but it's it that's going to happen. So there will be products that are built around all of this stuff over time. If you're holding, and this is, this is nuts, over time, if you're holding an XRP ETF in your portfolio or a DOGE ETF in your portfolio, that's part of your overall overall portfolio and you know you can take out loans against your portfolio. So ostensibly you're going to be able to take out a securities based loan with the DOGE ETF in your portfolio. It's crazy, but it's true. And with the likes of Goldman again, who's a supposedly top of the top in terms of traditional financial institutions, if they're talking about swaps and arbitrage and options associated with not only spot positions but also ETF positions, again, I talked about it yesterday. Wall street has shifted in such a meaningful way on crypto. The reason that they've done that is they see remarkable opportunity for profits because when you get a new asset class, and that new asset class is also volatile, that means dollar signs for Wall Street. A new asset class and something new and shiny that's also volatile, they'll be able to charge a premium for those products. Whatever those products are, they'll be able to charge a premium for it. And that's why Goldman Sachs is pounding the table on do this, this, this, do all this exotic stuff with Bitcoin and Ethereum. We're here to serve you. Come on over. We'll do whatever you want, Right? That's basically what it is. So yeah, you go and look at the movie the Big Short, right? In the Big Short there was the beginning of the movie, the character that played Michael Berry going to Goldman Sachs and going to other spots, and he wanted to create some swaps. Well, those swaps were wildly expensive at the time. Not only the cost to create them, but then the cost to carry them. The carry costs with them were just outrageous because it was a new product that they were creating out of whole cloth and again, volatile. Same thing here. New product, new asset class volatility. Wall street is, is licking their chops to make some serious money off the new asset class.

[Scott]

Bill, you just joined the conversation, but right in your wheelhouse, talking about basically obviously all of the options for financializing crypto to catch it up to other asset classes. Obviously we're going to be getting a slew of ETFs. This can go to either bill, by the way. Slew of ETFs and these products being financialized, I mean, when do catch up and just become, you know, at least have the same options and trading that we have on other assets.

[Bill]

Is that. Am I the bill you're directing that.

[Scott]

You can be the bill? I respect all bills equally.

[Bill]

Oh, thank you. It's a good question. I think this year you're going to see some fundamental questions about the regulatory status of crypto in the United States being answered. I think token issuance and secondary trading are going to be the focus, especially in the first half of this year. I actually don't think you're going to get to anything on the defi side of things in 2025. Maybe initial conversations, but I had a interesting conversation with a guy who ran the digital assets group at a major international bank and he was talking about how it was still so difficult for them to bring all of like this whole asset class in house and sort of treat it the same as the other asset classes that they offer. You know, that they have offerings around, that they trade, that they custody. And that's because their regulators had a hard time articulating a way that risk management of these assets could be brought under the same overarching umbrella as their larger risk management program. And that it was a problem that banks were continuing to bang their head about. And they're given the we're now in a new era of regulatory embrace of this tech as opposed to regulatory animosity. You're starting to see banks invest more time, effort and resources into answering these questions. And I hope over the course of the year banking regulators will start to work more collaboratively with traditional financial institutions and crypto native companies that are trying to figure out these things to expand to have the crypto ecosystem and to have TradFi be able to get further into the crypto ecosystem. But I'm not pretending it's not going to be a challenge, but it'll be interesting to see play out. But the ETF stuff is very encouraging. I know there are a lot of crypto native companies that want to be that bridge for tradfi to get further in the bridge to token, the bridge to trading things like credit otc. But on the blockchain, permissionless blockchains. It's exciting to see every, everything that's starting to kick off now.

[Scott]

Bill, bill number 1.2, 1.1, 2.0, whatever you want to be, go ahead Bill.

[Rodney]

You can do it with Bill 1.

[Gary]

And Bill A. Yeah, A and 1.

[Scott]

Then you both. Yeah, it's tie kind of nobody knows.

[Gary]

Yeah. I think what I care about here is kind of the integration of defi. When you start to talk about securitization and financialization of, of non Bitcoin crypto assets. Right. So first we got to deal with proof of stake returns.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Gary]

If I was holding an Ethereum etf, I would demand my, you know, staking rewards. Same with Solana Sui, whatever's, whatever's next that's reasonable. You're going to see a whole bunch of yield bearing stable coins, right, which look like Treasuries and you know, why not have ETFs that basically are effectively yield bearing stable coins. So that's defi as well. And then you get into more complex defi which is, you know, governance tokens and that are generating rewards off of D5 protocols which can easily be offered as ETFs. Well, where are my rewards? Right, so, so that's I think the first step in the integration of real kind of crypto with the securities world and that is something that we are going to have to address very, very soon. And I think the first thing to address it will be Ethereum staking rewards and then it will open up the whole hornet's nest in a good way where people will realize that okay, well maybe securities isn't necessarily the, the best way to do all of this but we do have to address this challenge because people want their money and there's ways to make money. Right. Both of which means that you know, we'll do it right. So that's going to happen this year and that's great. And I think that will open up banks eyes to how, how important defi is, how important staking is proof of stake, how important these governance tokens are, how this shift towards dividend bearing governance tokens is, is happening in real time. And I think that's kind of the segue that I see towards or segue I see from kind of standalone crypto towards crypto with the tradfi world. I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing but it's going to happen whether I think it's a good thing or not. I think most likely the biggest users of this long term are going to be upstarts just like in the dot com days. Right? It wasn't blockbuster that figured out streaming, it was upstarts and, and, and the, and the incumbents died. My prediction long term is is that will most likely happen in banking as well. But, but the kind of transition is going to be interesting over the next couple of years. We talked about it yesterday, right. I mean security tokens is probably the step that comes after that and then you can keep going from there. But I think it's a really interesting year now in that regard because I think the kimono has been opened and there's no going back. I think they'll fix some of the issues with the stablecoin regulation to deal with algo stable coins and other things around yield products and it's all just going to get securitized. It's really interesting.

[Scott]

I saw this headline that was shocking to me and I'm trying to unpack what it means which was MasterCard tokenized 30% of its 2024 transactions per SEC filing and they said that approximately 30% of all MasterCard transactions are now tokenized. Does that seem insanely high or surprising to anyone else here and what does that actually mean? Anybody have insight on that?

[Gary]

That can mean anything because you think about like what Chase was doing a few years ago where they talked about their internal, I'm using air quotes here, sorry, internal blockchain bullshit, which, which really means nothing at the end of the day. It's just basically another form of database. So unless they're talking about starting to settle real transactions via stable coins with, you know, acquirers, which I'm sure they're not doing because the acquirers wouldn't even understand what I just said, you know, then it's not interesting, right? I mean, so I, I think the card networks would love to settle via stable coins because it would, you know, lower their risk and lower their costs and raise their profit margins. But we're, we're quite a ways away from that, so I'm pretty skeptical that it's, it actually means anything important.

[Tillman]

Yeah, I don't know exactly how to interpret that either, but I would say that there is a chance that MasterCard is servicing quite a few like Crypto.com and other brokers and companies to actually process crypto transactions. I don't be very surprised if it was upwards of 10%, but I would imagine that that's what it's referring to. Agree that from my understanding the Rails just are not there to actually do any kind of on chain settlement and clearing of crypto to standard consumer transaction. It's all happening on the back end and then hitting the, the MasterCard rail. So I don't, I don't believe the tokenized piece of it is actually there, but maybe it's them servicing those customers, albeit I wouldn't expect it to be that high. The one thing I would just also add is really interesting conversation here around institutionalized Defi and the fact that we're going to see staking on Solana on Ethereum when it comes to these ETFs. I'm just curious, you know, the panel slots here on how attractive that actually is to standard investors and, and how much liquidity or interest we expect that to draw in maybe comparatively to like dividend stocks being kind of the most effective, effective way to earn passive return on holding these assets as securities.

[Gary]

Well, if you're holding Solana and you're holding X amount of Solana and you can alternatively hold 1.1x Solana because that's your staking reward. Which would you choose?

[Tillman]

Oh, of course, yeah. I just wonder like how attractive is that comparatively to holding Costco stock and getting a dividend to kind of these more institutionalized investors and retail who are engaging with the Stock market.

[Gary]

I mean, I don't think that people who are holding crypto are holding it because of the dividends. I'm just saying that they're going to hold it and demand the dividends anyway or the staking rewards in this case. But if you're holding Solana, you're probably recognizing that you're going to get outsized returns for an exponentially growing asset versus holding, you know, some, you know, Dow Jones industrial member stock. Right. So, so it's a totally different mindset for, for most investors, hedge funds are a little different because they get into sharpe ratios and you know, basically risk analysis and stuff like that that retail doesn't get into. But they're also not long term holders. Right. They'll, they'll buy and sell on a, on a dime and also do technicals that retail can't do. But I don't really think that the dividends play a significant role for retail traders looking to buy and sell crypto. That's, that's my opinion.

[Scott]

But yeah, and Bill, so I guess along the same lines as what I'm at is asking here, I wonder how impactful staking in the Ethereum spot ETFs would be for the attractiveness to that, that same audience because that is being entertained now.

[Gary]

I think it's a big deal because it's, you know, look, I'm not a big fan of, of ETFs for smart contract platforms like we talked about yesterday, but if you're going to do it and the staking rewards are 10 and I get the 10 by holding the underlying and staking it, you know, on Marinade or wherever I'm staking and I don't get it via the etf. That's not going to make any sense to me. Right. So, so I think that is going to have to be addressed and I think it will be addressed.

[Scott]

The issue.

[Gary]

Yeah, the issue is that, sorry, the issue with that is the technical implementation. Right. Because staking rewards tend to, you know, well, every contract can do what they want but they tend to accrue in real time whereas there are no dividends paid in stocks on, on stocks in real time. So, so that's going to have to be addressed and I don't know how they're going to do that as there's.

[Scott]

Actual like logistics that would be exceptionally difficult.

[Gary]

Exactly. Maybe, maybe some others here have some insights into that. But I mean technically it's possible to accrue in real time. Of course. It's just logistically I don't Know that the systems that exist for, for these issuers can handle that.

[Rodney]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Pivoting. Something else that happened yesterday that I found interesting. Well, I guess we have two pieces of Michael Saylor, Jason News. He obviously was in El Salvador, met Bukele, there are pictures and people got very excited about that. But maybe more importantly was a rumor yesterday that GameStop is going to add Bitcoin to the balance sheet. We know that, we saw photos of the GameStop CEO with Michael Saylor, I believe last week. But yesterday those rumors got stronger. And what happened? Gamestop Stock went up 20% in after hours trading just on the rumor that Bitcoin would be added to the balance sheet. To which lends the question. If you see that this is like Long Island Blockchain Iced Tea of the last cycle when the stock pumps just by adding the name Long Island Blockchain Iced Tea. But when you see something like that happen and you're another company, how can you not take very seriously the idea of even adding a little bit of bitcoin to your balance sheet just for the marketing? Does anybody have thoughts on that? Because I thought a 20% move just on the rumor was crazy. Andrew. I see. Go ahead. Yeah. Andrew. Then Tillman, whoever wants to go, go, go ahead. Tillman.

[Rodney]

Well, I just say it would, it's twofold, right? You're going to get a top end growth by adding Bitcoin to your balance sheet because you're attracting new customers that see that as a value play. But you're also preventing people from hedging or from shorting your stock or disincentivizing them from shorting their stock. And so it's a knife that cuts both ways. It's a very powerful seasoning to any type of industry. And I think that you're going to see a race. I think that we're going to see the light bulb go off and the companies kind of come out to the starting gun and the early adopters are going to get rewarded. Just like we always say in the bitcoin space, you deserve the price that you get. Each of these companies are going to get the price that they deserve.

[Scott]

Go ahead. Bill.

[Gary]

Yeah, unfortunately I still think there's three camps here, right? There's the people that are just wicked smart a la Michael Saylor who control their stock, right. And, and he's just, you know, he did explain how he had his board, you know, spend their hundred hours or a thousand hours, whatever the number was, digging in and you know, getting to the point where they were willing to make that investment. And then you have kind of individual stocks a la GameStop, which is probably closer to, you know, the Degen gamers and gamblers. And, and, and so if you've got a stock that's tightly controlled, a business model that is kind of all in on, you know, Degen type of businesses, I think that's going to work in our world. But I still think, and we do have clients that are private companies doing this now, meaning the MicroStrategy playbook. And that's different because they're, you know, tightly held private companies. But most public companies see putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet right now akin to taking your cash and basically investing in drug dealers. And yes, you're going to get a huge return for the most part if you invest in drug dealers, but nobody wants to invest in drug dealers. And I hate to say it, but that's how most of the world, the public market, CEO world is still looking at this. They may look at this and go, yeah, the returns are phenomenal, but I'm not ready to be in that business. And so I'm just responding to your comment, like, how can anybody not look at this and go, I have to do this. Unfortunately, that's how. And, and until that changes and we're not. The good news is we're not even close to there yet. Which means, I guess there's a lot of upside in companies holding Bitcoin. Right. But, but, you know, I, I think given the feedback that I hear from, from other CEOs on the public side, you know, that's, that's kind of the mindset right now. Anybody?

[Scott]

Yeah, GameStop also. Is it. Yeah, GameStop's kind of a unique flower too, right? I mean, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Gary]

Every, every instance of a government or company that's not private that's doing this is a unique situation. Right. So El Salvador was already dollarized. You know, it basically had a benevolent, and I'm using this term, you know, with a smile on my face, benevolent dictator. You know, GameStop unique situation. Michael Saylor completely controls the stock. Right. So I've never, you know, what we want to see is when, when a bottom Fortune 500 company that is not tightly controlled does this, then we know we're, we're approaching a point where the flood, floodgates could be opened. We're not there yet.

[Scott]

That makes sense. Simon, you had to end up, I.

[Simon]

Was just going to say probably what you were going to say, but GameStop is a, I think, perfect for this like, it's got the activist shareholder base. It's got the story of coming up against the establishment. It's a bit like Rumble, where it's trying to come up against censorship. It's saying we're going to be a freedom of speech platform. So we're really seeing the ones that are ideologically aligned. I think what would become interesting with GameStop is it feels like it's that kind of degen community. I noticed the announcement said bitcoin and cryptocurrency. So you could imagine this would be one that would experiment with some wild activism and maybe go further and further down the. The risk curve and even become like, very memey. You know, I think GameStop is like a. A meme. A meme coin, culturally. So I. I think it's going to work incredibly well and I think it's going to draw. It's probably going to draw people that were never going to be in the stock market into the stock market, which is what it essentially did. It took about, you know, that. So I actually think it's bringing probably crypto people over to stocks and it would be quite interesting.

[Scott]

Yeah. So just for reference, closing 2024, GameStop had $4.6 billion in cash reserves, which is up from 1.2 billion the year before. For a business is actually struggling as an actual business because of a stock offering they did because it trades like a meme token or being the original kind of meme stock that earned them, I think $3 billion in cash reserves, but they're sitting on $4.6 billion in cash reserves. That is a company that's ripe to protect that cash, in my opinion.

[Simon]

Also a business model that feels like a blockbuster that needs to change. Right. As well. So I don't know if it has changed because I haven't followed it for a while, but it feels like a legacy business that needs.

[Gary]

There is no business model. It's basically just a cash meme stock at this point. I mean, they really don't have a business model other than real in a little bit of real estate holdings, I guess.

[Simon]

Interesting what all the physical locations are no more. Is it. Is it just a shell company?

[Gary]

Yeah, basically. I mean, I mean, obviously that's not what they say, but I mean, if you dig in a little bit, which I did when we were having these discussions during the last cycle, when everybody was losing their minds during COVID there really isn't much there. I mean, it was. It was the perfect stock for this because degens could relate to a Gaming company, but there really was no gaming company underneath the hood. It's crazy.

[Scott]

I'm a tail.

[Tillman]

Yeah, I think it is the perfect stock for this because when you look at MicroStrategy's pivot, you know, now strategy, it was an analytics and data company that couldn't scale, couldn't be more optimized for what they were doing, couldn't innovate the technology, and needed a solution with the cash on its balance sheet. What everybody's saying here, really the same thing. There's too many streaming services for gaming, for GameStop to compete. The way that Netflix made its pivot from sending DVDs in the mail to a streaming service, this is all built into PlayStations and devices etc and you know, all these billions of dollars, that's a lot of old N64 systems. I just don't see it there with the overhead and, and the way that shopping plazas themselves are, are just vacant everywhere. It. It's actually become. And something that I don't think people fully realize is there's a huge collector market when it comes to vintage gaming. And if anything, it's become kind of a vintage gaming collector store, kind of similar to what you have with Pokemon and Magic cards, but for gaming rather than people buying new things off the shelves. Which is pretty fascinating that and like, plus like Radio Shack widgets. So when you look at all of that, it is the perfect stock for this. But I also think we're going to see other companies who are kind of dealing with the same struggle make these moves that don't have another ability to pivot their actual business model.

[Rodney]

Well, it's interesting, y'all on a geeky.

[Simon]

On a bit of a geeky side there. There are strict regulations around the Investment Advisors Act. So if a percentage of your business is purely investments and you go over a certain threshold, last time I checked, I think it was like 30%. You have to like 70% functioning business. And this is interesting to the Michael Saylor conversation as well. But you have to have a percentage which is operating business. And then if you go over that threshold, you have to register with the 40, I think it's 44 investment investment company act that was on.

[Scott]

I think I was just gonna say.

[Rodney]

I think it's gonna be interesting to see when, you know, the, the legacy companies that are being forced to do this Adapt or Die are, you know, in a, in a group by themselves. In my opinion, it's going to be really interesting when we see the first company that is in a very competitive market with a decent amount of market share. Adopt this strategy because you're forcing your competition to do it. It'd be like the University of Texas adopting bitcoin. You know, it would, it would force the other universities in Texas to really take a look at that. I think that what we see right now is no different than what we saw with the development of the Internet. Kind of the most desperate or the least of these are the ones that are most attracted to, to the differentiator at the beginning. But once that differentiator is proven to be a competitive advantage that you cannot duplicate in any other way, it will in my opinion, force other competitors into the space in a more haphazard manner without the due diligence because it's again going to force them to realize that the competitive advantage that they're losing or the market share that they're losing, they don't, they don't have another option. They have to come in and be a bitcoin or have bitcoin on their balance sheet if that market share is being taken away by a competitor that is doing the same thing.

[Scott]

Yeah. And I think the next question would be that once they all start adding it, what will be the strategy that they use to do so we've obviously seen the way Saylor does it without impacting the markets. This is my segue to talking to you, Tillman and Andrew about arch public. For anybody who doesn't know, Tillman and Andrew co host my Tuesday morning 9am YouTube show every single week and they have built something absolutely incredible that I want to obviously spread the word on beyond our weekly YouTube show and since they're here very regularly, wanted to give the opportunity to discuss that here on Crypto Town hall because I think it's something that literally anyone who's listening to this show would be be interested interested in. Tell me you want to break it down. So you guys have a lot of things but specifically I think we want to kind of talk about the arbitraging bitcoin and the bitcoin dollar cost averaging strategy.

[Rodney]

Yeah, sure. Thanks Scott. The primary motivation for our company is to build products that help people get into bitcoin that make it easier to understand it, easier to manage it, print out a purchasing schedule and allow the board to vote on it. But our software is the most advanced tool that I've ever seen in the market as it pertains to allowing you flexibility as to how you enter bitcoin. We're working right now are partnered with Gemini. You can use our algorithms to Acquire to arbitrage to sell Bitcoin in any structured manner that you desire. There's very simple inputs that will change the outputs in terms of what you're trying to accomplish. But we're also building ETF products that will allow you to do the exact same thing into ETFs. But the purpose of it is to productize and make it easier for anyone that wants to engage with Bitcoin on the, on the, on the field that they want to play on. If they want to play the ETF field, that's great. If they want to play the spot field, great. It really doesn't matter. It's about acquiring Bitcoin. And you know, it starts with a simple question that, you know, I've been in Bitcoin for over a decade and I've never met anybody that said I own too much Bitcoin or I bought too much Bitcoin. It's always oh, I wish I had bought more or I wish I had bought it at this time when I heard about it. And so software that takes the, the burden of sitting in front of your computer and waiting for the dips or waiting for the specific drawdowns to acquire, you know, your position, we, we think is the future. And so this software allows you to be completely away from your computer and whatever the depth that you want to acquire the Bitcoin on, if that, if that price drop happens, then your, your, your entry is, is automatically handled. So it's a, automated software or trading automation has had a bad reputation over the last five years similar to Bitcoin in the fact that most people don't have access to it, don't understand it and there's a lot of fraud. This is a completely user driven software. If a company wants to add Bitcoin to their balance sheet, they can literally take the software internally, no visibility from the outside world, set their purchasing schedule, which would be completely confidential. It wouldn't be open trades on the order book and set it and forget it. And by the time that they want to have acquired X number of Bitcoin, they will have acquired that Bitcoin. And along the way, instead of just acquiring and holding, there's ways in which you can play arbitrage with the price if it's trending and our software will also do that. So if the price, for example, let's say you enter a trade at a hundred thousand dollar Bitcoin price and the price drops, well, it's not going to sell that position, it's going to put it into your Long term holdings pile. But let's say that same short term Trade goes from 100 to 103,000 there and you have your settings to take advantage of. A 3% move, well that would liquidate that cash out on the 3% and put that money back to work and trying to acquire Bitcoin at a, at, on the depths. So it's something that can generate cash flow while you're accumulating Bitcoin. And you know the results are phenomenal. It's, it's not going to produce as much value if you were lucky and picked the right day to acquire 100 of your position. But therein lies the magic of acquiring Bitcoin is when do you buy it? And this is a, it's akin to dollar cost averaging and the fact that you're getting a tremendous amount of exposure to price. You're getting small purchases that being managed for you throughout the, the night or throughout the day. But at the same time it's not just doing it randomly and not doing it based upon a pre prescribed schedule. It's looking for actual market conditions to be met like dips and rises to, to execute those.

[Scott]

And what I've noticed, what I've noticed tracking it is even outside of even the arbitrage, which is amazing. Even on the dollar cost averaging algorithm, you end up over even a short period of time, but certainly over a long period of time basically getting a few percent better pricing because it buys basically the best price within every time period that you would want to Dollar cost average as opposed to an arbitrary time.

[Rodney]

Exactly, that's exactly correct. So it's, it's, it's using intelligence based upon market conditions to make those entries and exits versus just purchase some random purchasing schedule based upon date and time.

[Andrew]

Probably the most important thing to say about our Bitcoin algorithm and the arbitrage strategy is it's free. So if you're a retail individual and you want to get your hands on this product, this is how much we believe in Bitcoin and how important it is that we get Bitcoin in the hands of as many people as possible. Our algorithm is free. So go use it, go test it out, go figure out what it's all about. We have some customized settings in there that when you sign up, you can just choose those custom parameters and use the parameters that we've set up that have certain outcomes. Our arbitrage Strategy is annualized 247% per year and then you get 10 to 20% cash yield on top of it. Those are serious numbers associated with the algorithm. But you can change those numbers if you want to do something different than just arbitrage and stack Bitcoin. There are people that have a ton of Bitcoin and they're worried about, well, I don't want to go through another 40 or 50% drawdown, so I want to be a net seller here at the tippy tops until I think the winds have changed. So you can do whatever you want to do with the algorithm. You can do five different things at any given time. It's not just a binary output and a binary outcome. You can set up five different types of parameters and be doing five different things all at the same time and it's all hands off. You can set up those five different parameters and you can move to Mars for the next two years and it's going to do those things that you've set it up to do. It's hands off and it's free and.

[Rodney]

It'S powerful and it's, it's compatible with trading views. So you can load historical data to your heart's content and test out different parameters and see what those historical outputs would have been so that you can have confidence going forward. It's, it's, it's a tool that's built again to get as many people to own Bitcoin as possible. It's a way to build your personal sovereign wealth fund. Set it and forget it and get the outcomes that you desire.

[Scott]

Sorry, I was glitching trying to get them. Get the, get the mic on. It should be noted that, listen, this is how to arbitrage Bitcoin, but slowly. This is being rolled out to basically all of the assets on Gemini and is available already for Ethan Solana as well. Is that correct?

[Rodney]

That is correct, exactly. So you can set up instances to play those different coins against one another as it pertains to the arbitrage. So if you want to take entries at a certain percentage drop of Bitcoin and then change that percentage drop in Ethereum and, or Solana or any of the other ones that generalize offer, then you can do that as well. So there's tremendous arbitrage capabilities not just in price differentiation in Bitcoin alone, but also across the various tokens that you can acquiring. So.

[Scott]

Yeah, I see that Gary Cardone's in the audience. Gary, I've been trying to invite you up this whole time, but you're probably on the road or something. But I know that I saw a video of him using this.

[Rodney]

Gary is, Gary was One of our initial test pilots, he's been gracious enough to not only use it, but tell us all the things that he likes and dislikes about it. We'd love the same thing from each one of you guys. That's the reason, one of the reasons why we've offered it for free so that we can make it better. So It's a Tier 1 Grade A product that when someone that's new to bitcoin comes in and uses that, they don't leave with a bad taste in their mouth. And being in Bitcoin for as long as I've been in bitcoin, I've been left with a lot of bad taste in my mouth as it relates to using products and services regarding crypto. So I think we're entering into a new age where the standard is more of a Wall street standard and trading automation is 70 plus percent of the trades that take place on Wall Street. So it's a foreign concept to them. And then at the same time, if you're a company that wants to add Bitcoin to your balance sheet, how do you do that without putting liability on one of your employees or board members? Like, who do you get as the execution arm of that purchasing schedule? And are you, are you making compromises in that purchasing schedule for the sake of convenience? So for example, if I'm going to buy Bitcoin on all the dips, well, I better have that execution arm ready to buy the Sunday night, Sunday morning dip at 2:00am so if you, if you don't have automation, you're left to buy at the convenience of your employees and, or your company's, you know, board. If you have automation that you're less to buy at the, you're taking advantage of circumstances and opportunities that really present themselves in the market and you're going to get a better outcome with that versus just doing it on when you want to do it or when it's convenient to do it.

[Scott]

I saw Gary just popped up. I saw you doing this in pretty decent size, Gary.

[I]

Hey, what's up guys? Yeah, sorry, I'm just running to a meeting. Got myself into just working harder and harder as I get older. I don't know how this works happens, but I must enjoy, I must enjoy the pain, huh? Yeah, dude, I loved. I, I mean, look, I think these guys have created a really great tool for both sides of the market. I think, you know, a large investor will love this and a small investor will love this because it takes the, I mean, look, my, my, I got a Lighting guy here, he's probably listening and he's like, hey, man, you, you buy any of this ABC coin? I'm like, no, bro, I don't do any of that. I mean, how could you possibly pick any of this stuff out properly? My point being, like, when I ran, was easy to get set up. And I'm not the easiest guy. I get very frustrated quite easily. But it was very easy to set up. And at the time, I think what I did, Tillman, was I set up on like a four hour schedule. I had a, I had a fixed amount of money.

[Scott]

Weren't you doing like ten grand every four hours or something crazy or something like that?

[I]

No, you couldn't possibly have known what I was doing, right, Scott? I thought, oh, oh, were you inside the, the firewall? So, but it was like, I don't know, 100 grand, I think.

[Rodney]

Yeah, you said, I want to get.

[I]

You can tell people what I did, man. Go ahead, tell them exactly what I did.

[Rodney]

Barry loves to trade.

[Scott]

I didn't have any inside information, man. I was just watching the video.

[Rodney]

Well, he likes to trade depreciatory assets and sell those and then buy bitcoin with those. So he had just sold a bunch of silver and he wanted to, he had 100,000 in cash left to place in a two week period of time. And so we set the software to acquire the 100,000 in a two week period of time based upon the debts that present themselves. And it got it done in exactly two weeks. And he met his goal. And if he sells something else and wants to pile that cash into bitcoin, this is a way where you can set up a separate instance or a trigger event for that allotment of capital. So if you have, you know, 20,0001-000002-00000 free, then you can put that in an instance and you know that that's getting placed extremely efficiently. And then let's say you sell something else and you want to put another instance in place with a different set of capital or different allotment of capital, then you can do, do that as well. It's extremely flexible. It allows you to buy, like I said, a sovereign wealth fund where you can pull it out of your paycheck every month and do small amounts, but you can also set up large trigger events. So for example, if I'm sitting on a lot of cash and I'm waiting for the big drawdown in Bitcoin to, to enter a large position, then I can set a trigger event to say, okay, if bitcoin Drops by X percent in a week, day, month, whatever, whatever that criteria that I determine is, then that would be triggered and I'd have this, I'd have my bet on the books. It would get done.

[Scott]

Perfect. Well, guys, so yeah, go ahead, Gary.

[Rodney]

Anyway.

[Scott]

Gary breaking up. Can you guys hear him?

[Rodney]

No, I can't hear him.

[Scott]

Two seconds. I think, I think we lost him on the way to his meeting, unfortunately. All right, well, if Gary comes back, we'll let him jump in. He probably can't even hear us. Maybe thinks he's talking. I just wanted to highlight that this is all. I should have said it before. Above in the nest is a tweet from Triarch Public. So you could follow Tri, Arch Public, follow Andrew, follow Tilman. But most importantly, you can go check this out like they said for [e-mail] that's a R C H P U B L I C dot com. No question. This is the best way to dollar cost average into your favorite assets and cash flow them if you're interested in the sell side and the arbitrage strategies as well. It's really incredible. It's something we've been tracking, you know, very heavily, you know, for, for months here and you should all be absolutely trying. Andrew Tillman, any final thoughts?

[Rodney]

Now just buy more Bitcoin, whether it's with our software or with anybody else's. Yeah, it's all about getting the, the product Bitcoin into as many hands as we can.

[Andrew]

Andrew, it's free. Go try it. It's free. It's fun and it's free. Go, go give it a whirl on Trading View. You'll be, you'll be impressed. It's an institutional grade tool that we've brought to, brought to retail.

[Scott]

Can't wait to tell them about all your other tools. But that's for another day. All right guys, have an incredible weekend. Give everybody up here once again a follow and we will see you all next week for Crypto Town Hall. Have a great weekend and a happy Valentine's Day later everyone.